Laois 2017 - NHL and Leinster SHC

[finbar o tool]

Offering your opinion is not the problem keyser. Accepting others is!
Sounds like a solid performance in Wexford alright, delighted for the lads. We were competitive. Great to see us having a go! And in my opinion, we'll continue to run 1 or 2 teams close in the league, and win 1 or 2 here and there too. But thats all we'll do for the foreseeable future. Im trying to look at the bigger picture here and improve all around. So in 10/12 years we will be actually competing and challenging for Leinster titles. Stop making everything about cheddar! Im talking about Laois hurling from u6 to Senior and what can be done to improve the whole thing! Maybe dropping down isnt the answer but something has to be done or we'll be on this merrygoround forever!

[Don Draper]

Come on Don no need for it.

He treated Cheddar like a tr**p, there's plenty of need for it. He can go f**k. I don't need to interact with anyone I dont wish to. I replied to keyser.

[HURLING1]

Don, I'd like to say your a bit over the top with Finbar but your perfectly correct.  We had a great man in charge and he Finbar wanted us to move on to the next level.  Now we're to go to Division 2. You couldn't make it up.

[Don Draper]

Don, I'd like to say your a bit over the top with Finbar but your perfectly correct.  We had a great man in charge and he Finbar wanted us to move on to the next level.  Now we're to go to Division 2. You couldn't make it up.

I've given him too much oxygen already.

[finbar o tool]

  Anymore gems of wisdom Don!? will you come out of Cheddars hole for a minute!
We had a half decent team under cheddar but he was too defensive. This current team is not near as good yet they are having a go! Do you think if he was in charge today we would have gotten as close to Wexford as we did??! Not a f**king chance!
Anyway like i said, im trying to comment on the current and future state of laois hurling, a wiseman once said, if you keep doing the same things you'll keep getting the same result. Thats whats happening in laois, every year, win 1 or 2, get a few hammerings, run a decent side close now and again, bet out of championship early, next year, the same, next year, the same and so on and so on. And its going on a long time now! We are obviously failing at underage and schools coaching, thats where the main problems are, not this current senior team. I guarantee Weatmeath and Carlow will pass us out over the next few years. As a county we are standing still. And its worrying.
Cheddar is a passionate Laois man and he has a vision and drive for the improvement of Laois hurling. Hes not going to do it on the sideline with the seniors but as a hurling director i think he would be very good.

[clonadmad]

Lay out your vision of an underage hurling plan for the county there Finbar

[finbar o tool]

Already made a stab at it clonadmad. But I definitely dont have all the answers! Is that all you have to add or do you disagree with what im saying? Is Laois grand the way it is? Anyway ive had my rant!

[Don Draper]

Lay out your vision of an underage hurling plan for the county there Finbar

He's got nothing. An empty vase.

[finbar o tool]

Says the man doing nothing but throwing abuse! 

[Keyser Söze]

What "masterplan" is needed?
There is no such thing as a style of hurling that can be transferred all the way from U6 to Senior or even U12 to Senior.

From 6-12 all you can do is make sure the basics become natural, that fundamental movement is well covered, and that hurling is an attractive proposition- i.e. fun. That is all you can do.

From 12-14 all you can do is work sharpening the basics and adding the more complex skills. Introducing some tactical awareness at this age.

From 14-18 the basics should be natural, and the more complex skills should be made natural at this stage. More complex S&C/Fundamental Movement is introduced and a much higher level of tactical awareness/game management becomes the norm. Again, making hurling an attractive proposition is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT at this age.

We are very unlikely to ever be in a position to put a decent amount of work into an U21 team. Strong U21s will already be seniors, and will simply be unavailable to U21 managements.

I don't see how it is any more complicated than that?
Getting clubs into primary schools. Getting the same kids to go to the clubs. Getting development squads together at weekends and school holidays. What else can be done in terms of structures?

[clonadmad]

Time you grew up Don.

I asked Finbar for his Vision,not to score points or denigrate the man.

[Don Draper]

Time you grew up Don.

I asked Finbar for his Vision,not to score points or denigrate the man.

I'm grand, thanks for your concern. I listened to enough from that man a year ago, I won't tolerate him any further. Vision? You'll be f**king waiting.

[finbar o tool]

What "masterplan" is needed?
There is no such thing as a style of hurling that can be transferred all the way from U6 to Senior or even U12 to Senior.

From 6-12 all you can do is make sure the basics become natural, that fundamental movement is well covered, and that hurling is an attractive proposition- i.e. fun. That is all you can do.

From 12-14 all you can do is work sharpening the basics and adding the more complex skills. Introducing some tactical awareness at this age.

From 14-18 the basics should be natural, and the more complex skills should be made natural at this stage. More complex S&C/Fundamental Movement is introduced and a much higher level of tactical awareness/game management becomes the norm. Again, making hurling an attractive proposition is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT at this age.

We are very unlikely to ever be in a position to put a decent amount of work into an U21 team. Strong U21s will already be seniors, and will simply be unavailable to U21 managements.

I don't see how it is any more complicated than that?
Getting clubs into primary schools. Getting the same kids to go to the clubs. Getting development squads together at weekends and school holidays. What else can be done in terms of structures?

No one has ever stated that, and why would they its a ridiculous comment!
You make it sound so simple Keyser! If it was as straightforward as that we'd be all Ireland champions long ago!! At least were having a conversation though and not just throwing jibes!  The reason i hesitate to explain a "masterplan" or "vision" etc here is because it IS too complicated to put in a simple post on a forum as you have attempted above. Laois hurling hasnt really progressed in the last 20/25 years except for having a more professional set up at senior level over the last few years. Every year is a repeat of the last with slight variations. Ask yourself why? Just take a look at some other clubs in different counties via their websites etc and you will see the difference. Some clubs in Dublin and Kilkenny etc have stuff Laois dont even have at intercounty level. And some of those things have been in place for years! At club level! We are behind in terms of development and coach education and engagement with our young kids, and i could go on.
I dont have all the answers as ive said before, but to think we cant improve whats in place and strive for better is crazy. We need good hurling people and educated coaches, from Laois and elsewhere, to sit down together and develop a plan, or we'll be stuck in the doldrums forever.
Fair play to the current GDAs etc but they need more help and more bodies.
Sorry to be depressing but we cant bury our heads in the sand either and say next year will be different. It has to be a long term approach.

[Keyser Söze]

To be as pedantic as you- I never said it was simple.
But it isn't over complicated either. It does require hard work. Non stop and persistent hard work over many years. That's the secret. Any break of 2-3 years in the middle of this and you are back to square one.

Some of the people who end up over development squads is embarrassing at times. They are not capable of doing the job asked of them.
That is everyone's fault- mine, Don's, even yours!

Now, can you stop hesitating and at least suggest some of these improvements you had in mind.

This is quickly going down the road of your "Cheddar Out" phase- plenty of noise about what's wrong but almost having to be begged to suggest some ideas of your own.

You said you wanted discussion and then you come out with this stuff;

No one has ever stated that, and why would they its a ridiculous comment!
You make it sound so simple Keyser! If it was as straightforward as that we'd be all Ireland champions long ago!! At least were having a conversation though and not just throwing jibes!  The reason i hesitate to explain a "masterplan" or "vision" etc here is because it IS too complicated to put in a simple post on a forum as you have attempted above...... and i could go on. 
Sorry to be depressing but we cant bury our heads in the sand either and say next year will be different. It has to be a long term approach.

You are saying nothing that isn't being done or tried.

[CluainABU]

I think the comment re. the GDAs is valid. They are an extremely valuable resource and we're very fortunate with the lads we have in place. However, I firmly believe they need a lot more support (administration, strategy and organisationally) and they need a lot more bodies.

Without trying to imply that we indoctrinate a certain type of hurling from juvenile, the GDAs I believe are the key to ensuring we provide a consistent level of coaching and development across all the schools and clubs in the county. When you look at the footprint they have to cover, in terms of number schools and clubs per GDA and then you add the amount of administration and strategic work (and self-improvement) they need to do on top of this, I think our numbers are unrealistic.

I'm not sure if there is a generic rule of thumb applied per county (# of GDAs), or if it's simply down to the resources within each county, or if the funding is distributed centrally - but invaluable IMO

Re. yesterdays result and the form this year, without being naive, the number of injuries and age profile of the panel has to be a considered. Dropping down to Div 2 voluntarily would be lunacy. You have to be competing at the highest level you can, otherwise, you adapt to those around you and your standards drop - maybe not on a yo-yo year where you go down and come up, but if you go down and don't bounce back, disillusionment can easily set in