Scottish independence referendum thread

[Zip Code]

The people spoke. Talk of chickening out etc.. is nonsense, everyone had their own decision to make & did so, reasons now are irrelevant.

So once a vote is over,  there's no point discussing the reasons the people spoke because, uh, the people spoke?

Pretty much so.  Private relief for the Queen on the news, she much have flipped one off when the result came in.

[bennydorano]

The people spoke. Talk of chickening out etc.. is nonsense, everyone had their own decision to make & did so, reasons now are irrelevant.

So once a vote is over,  there's no point discussing the reasons the people spoke because, uh, the people spoke?

Did I stop the thread or something? Discuss away - as I have already since done.

[deiseach]

Did I stop the thread or something? Discuss away - as I have already since done.

No, but you say that talk of chickening out is 'nonsense' because people had their own decision to make. It strikes me as rather circular.

[Zip Code]

Did I stop the thread or something? Discuss away - as I have already since done.

No, but you say that talk of chickening out is 'nonsense' because people had their own decision to make. It strikes me as rather circular.

It strikes me of factual.

[deiseach]

Did I stop the thread or something? Discuss away - as I have already since done.

No, but you say that talk of chickening out is 'nonsense' because people had their own decision to make. It strikes me as rather circular.

It strikes me of factual.

Water is wet. Now there's factual for you.

[bennydorano]

Circular how?

[Sidney]

Did I stop the thread or something? Discuss away - as I have already since done.

No, but you say that talk of chickening out is 'nonsense' because people had their own decision to make. It strikes me as rather circular.

It strikes me of factual.

Water is wet. Now there's factual for you.

Wet Wet  Wet on the other hand are dry hun bastards.

[Zip Code]

Did I stop the thread or something? Discuss away - as I have already since done.

No, but you say that talk of chickening out is 'nonsense' because people had their own decision to make. It strikes me as rather circular.

It strikes me of factual.

Water is wet. Now there's factual for you.

You sure.

[deiseach]

Circular how?

Because it seems to be me that you are saying that because people have a decision to make, they can't be said to have chickened out. That could be applied to any choice. Golfer has 20-foot downhill putt to force a playoff in the Masters but opts to come up short to ensure he doesn't end up finishing third? Hey, don't say he chickened out, he had a decision to make! A lot of Scots will talk the talk about hating the English and wrapping themselves in the saltire and wearing kilts at weddings and sing laments about the cruel Sassenachs when filled with Glenfiddich. But when they went into the polling booth, they were suddenly overwhelmed with concern over not having a lender of last resort in the event of a run on banks. For me, that's you-know-what.

[screenexile]

The bottom line is that the Yes campaign's success was more the fact that the No campaign were f**king awful! The truth is they were expecting people to take a huge leap into the unknown and they were campaigning on dreams rather than reality.

Had they a blueprint for what an Independent Scotland would look like in terms of economics and healthcare at the basic level they may well have gotten over the line. People by and large aren't going to gamble with their families futures especially when there were so many unknowns out there!!!!

[imtommygunn]

The pension ramifications is only one thing though. Things like that question confidence. People will ask if  this guy can't guarantee my pension then how can he guarantee my family's welfare, my health gets looked after etc etc. Things like that should not be unknowns. The fact that they are is (or was) a worry to a lot of people.

If a person really believed in scottish independence and voted no then they chickened out. If they had to be swayed by a political campaign then no they didn't chicken out. It's really a sweeping generalisation to suggest the whole nation chickened out.

There is such a thing as national characteristics. Shared history, myths, institutions, lingo, to name but a few. With that in mind, I think it is fair to note that the Scots have a shared love of antagonism towards the English. I can see it in ourselves. It's mostly benign, as is ours these days, but when set against the vote yesterday I think I'm entitled to look at the Scottish and see a people who want to run with the hare and hunt with the hounds.

You sure are. I'm also entitled to disagree but like you say the argument is circular so little point in it I personally think it's a very sweeping generalisation but that's just IMO.

[imtommygunn]

The bottom line is that the Yes campaign's success was more the fact that the No campaign were f**king awful! The truth is they were expecting people to take a huge leap into the unknown and they were campaigning on dreams rather than reality.

Had they a blueprint for what an Independent Scotland would look like in terms of economics and healthcare at the basic level they may well have gotten over the line. People by and large aren't going to gamble with their families futures especially when there were so many unknowns out there!!!!

Exactly

[deiseach]

You sure are. I'm also entitled to disagree but like you say the argument is circular so little point in it I personally think it's a very sweeping generalisation but that's just IMO.

That's cool, I take your points.

[Myles Na G.]

Talk of the Yes campaign's vision of the future being full of uncertainties is a nonsense - it's the future we're talking about, stupid, of course there are going to be uncertainties. What about highlighting similar uncertainties in the No blueprint? I'm thinking of the fact that Scotland could find itself being dragged out of Europe in the very near future by UKIP, the Tory right wing and all their fellow travellers. How's that for uncertainty. The currency union and use of the pound was not an uncertainty. As Salmond pointed out, Scotland is the 2nd biggest market for the rest of the UK after the US. There is simply no way that, post referendum, the British govt would put tariff barriers or exchange rate worries in the way of its own businesses. Enlightened self interest would have prevailed. Likewise, Europe could not be seen to offer a carrot to Scotland before the referendum, as this would have been viewed as encouraging the breakup of the UK. Once the vote had been won, though, Scotland would have been ushered in as quickly as possible. It's a stable, wealthy country - why wouldn't Europe want it on board?

[screenexile]

Talk of the Yes campaign's vision of the future being full of uncertainties is a nonsense - it's the future we're talking about, stupid, of course there are going to be uncertainties. What about highlighting similar uncertainties in the No blueprint? I'm thinking of the fact that Scotland could find itself being dragged out of Europe in the very near future by UKIP, the Tory right wing and all their fellow travellers. How's that for uncertainty. The currency union and use of the pound was not an uncertainty. As Salmond pointed out, Scotland is the 2nd biggest market for the rest of the UK after the US. There is simply no way that, post referendum, the British govt would put tariff barriers or exchange rate worries in the way of its own businesses. Enlightened self interest would have prevailed. Likewise, Europe could not be seen to offer a carrot to Scotland before the referendum, as this would have been viewed as encouraging the breakup of the UK. Once the vote had been won, though, Scotland would have been ushered in as quickly as possible. It's a stable, wealthy country - why wouldn't Europe want it on board?

It's not nonsense because it's the way the No voters felt... I've spoken to quite a few Scots over the past week and all were in favour of Independence in theory but ultimately the Yes campaign did not convince them of the things you have pointed out above so they voted for the status quo.

People don't like to change too often and for many it was a case of better the devil you know than the devil you don't!