What do the natives think?
No big surprise. Norn Iron just doesn't work and never will. Another election will mean diddly squat. Same old shite.
Unionist identity is makey uppy and defined by what it isn't .
Newton Emerson was in the Irish Times recently. The Unionists always make the wrong decision.
I thought they already did in the St Andrew's Agreement. Very hard to get these people to stick to the agreements they make. Makes me wonder if they'll accept the democratic wishes of the people if a majority in the north eventually votes for a UI.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 06, 2017, 05:36:08 PM
I thought they already did in the St Andrew's Agreement. Very hard to get these people to stick to the agreements they make. Makes me wonder if they'll accept the democratic wishes of the people if a majority in the north eventually votes for a UI.
The wording of the St Andrew's Agreement was 'the government will introduce an Irish Language Act' with no specific reference to which government. Therefore they can pull the 'we're not the government it meant' trick.
In the past year/18 months, Foster has called nationalists 'rogues and renegades' and now we're 'crocodiles' too. When put through the Ulster-Scots translator on Google, her comment comes out as 'don't give the Fenians an inch or they'll start getting uppity again'.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 06, 2017, 05:36:08 PM
I thought they already did in the St Andrew's Agreement. Very hard to get these people to stick to the agreements they make. Makes me wonder if they'll accept the democratic wishes of the people if a majority in the north eventually votes for a UI.
They don't give a shite about democracy, they do when it suits them but if the people voted for a United Ireland there would be guns and bombs all over the shop.
The words Pig and Grunt come immediately to mind
I dont think people realise how serious this can get. A language act was agreed in the st andrews agreement. The secretary of state of the time Hain recently pretty much backed the DUP and suggested but sure the GFA and St Andrews were not really agreements anyway. There will be no assembly unless the DUP start backing down and that wont happen. Direct rule is looking less appealing by the day as well as quite clearly the previous labour government couldnt be trusted so no hope with the tories who are already stirring the pot over historical investigations of soldiers. The current SoS couldnt even behave at a GAA match he had to sneak in after the anthem like some sort of Duper. Worrying times ahead. Its not so much the language act itself but symbolic of how the DUP are not interested in real power sharing and how uninterested full stop the British government are.
They don't get the flegs, we don't get the language.
They have the police, we have the solicitors.
They have Arlene, we have Michelle.
They have soccer, we have GAA
We Win.
Where do we go from here.
Quote from: Windmill abu on February 06, 2017, 10:35:52 PM
They don't get the flegs, we don't get the language.
They have the police, we have the solicitors.
They have Arlene, we have Michelle.
They have soccer, we have GAA
We Win.
They have the Orange Order. Playing the orange card always wins.
Quote from: Hereiam on February 06, 2017, 11:20:00 PM
Where do we go from here.
Go out and vote the c***ts out. Make sure you make your point across to all you know (unionist friends included) that they're one of the most bigoted shower that graced the earth.
Quote from: stew on February 06, 2017, 07:12:17 PM
They don't give a shite about democracy, they do when it suits them but if the people voted for a United Ireland there would be guns and bombs all over the shop.
That's nonsence.
They didn't agree with the GFA either but they accepted it and the guns and bombs are gone.
what is most depressing is that these c***ts will probably get more votes at the upcoming election. I just hope to God one of the fuxkers has the audacity to land up at my door.
Quote from: general_lee on February 07, 2017, 09:18:45 AM
what is most depressing is that these c***ts will probably get more votes at the upcoming election. I just hope to God one of the fuxkers has the audacity to land up at my door.
Couldnt agree more.
Shame on Unionists to continue to vote for these b#stards no matter what and shame on Nationalists for not being bothered enought to vote them out, What other society would just accept such sectarianism, racism, homophobia, corruption, incompetence etc etc. With such ridiculous apathy most nationalists deserve all they get and have no right to moan over Brexit, marching or whatever else if they dont bother to do anything about it and shame on the British government for just sitting back and letting the DUP do whatever the feck they want.
As a distanced observer, the language used and the message sent out by Arlene Foster is a throwback to the 80s or 90s.
It's pathetic that in 2017 this type of "not an inch" mentality still exists, and it's a very sad reflection on society in NI.
The british government give no shit about us to be honest.
People who don't vote and who vote DUP are to blame for voting these people in. If you don't vote you are responsible for this!!
The DUP are so stupid though. They're merely reinforcing for everyone to clearly see the belief that unionists are incapable of seeing nationalists as equal. They know no other way than to "keep the taigs down" and the whole peace process is extremely awkward for them. When there were shootings and bombings they were delighted as it made spreading their hate a lot easier. I understand lots of unionists are not like this but until they stand up and get rid of the DUP then they're complicit. I won't be holding my breath.
As we see in the US and elsewhere, apathy is the feeding ground for extremists like Trump and in this case the DUP.
There's going to have to be some sort of joint authority brought in. If they're this staunch about the Irish Language Act then we're really going nowhere.
Completely complicit. I've a lot of very decent unionist friends, but when politics comes up (v rarely and never by me, but inevitable re RHI etc), you can see the veil come down. Most will continue to vote for them.
As we've seen with Brexit and Trump, people just want a story to believe so they don't have to admit they were wrong, the truth of that story is irrelevant.
Anybody any idea how this is all going to pan out after the election?
Will we have a working assembly?
Quote from: magpie seanie on February 07, 2017, 09:42:00 AM
The DUP are so stupid though. They're merely reinforcing for everyone to clearly see the belief that unionists are incapable of seeing nationalists as equal. They know no other way than to "keep the taigs down" and the whole peace process is extremely awkward for them. When there were shootings and bombings they were delighted as it made spreading their hate a lot easier. I understand lots of unionists are not like this but until they stand up and get rid of the DUP then they're complicit. I won't be holding my breath.
As we see in the US and elsewhere, apathy is the feeding ground for extremists like Trump and in this case the DUP.
There's going to have to be some sort of joint authority brought in. If they're this staunch about the Irish Language Act then we're really going nowhere.
You can see that in the election videos.
The DUP are very defensive and negative
The nationalist parties are far more positive.
Quote from: DownFanatic on February 07, 2017, 10:49:47 AM
Anybody any idea how this is all going to pan out after the election?
Will we have a working assembly?
SF will be returned with a slightly improved mandate as will the DUP, there will be some horse trading done in the background until we arrive with som compromised solution that no one is happy with and doesnt address any of the on going issues.
So then the next crisis will crop up next year or the following year and we are back to exactly where we are now, we are in a perpetual cycle, until the issues of the past are addressed to the satisfaction of all in this place and we can then look how to move forward from there.
Remember - This is not about the Irish language per se, but about an innate hatred they have of our identity and the particular things that make us Irish., They know they are living with a race of people with a very deep and ancient cultural past and that our songs, music, games, pastimes are what make us unique. They have none of this at all, so they turn things like bonfires, flags and parading past Catholic homes into their 'culture'. It's easy for them to throw muck at the GAA because of the 'grounds named after terrorists' thing, but the Irish language is much trickier for them to hide their naked bigotry because it's a language and therefore, just an innocent method of communication. So they attack it from two fronts - first by saying that by virtue of SF people using it, they are 'weaponising' it (did you ever hear such nonsense?) and second, by making their own language up Ulster Scots and demanding that it should get half the funding.
The problem is that because we as Irish are naturally welcoming, open minded and try to see logic, that we endeavour to understand and rationalise their behaviour, but in any other normal functioning society, they would be seen for what they are; bigots, in the past and without a political idea between them.
...and this isn't even mentioning their obsession with the Bible, their belief that the world is 5000 years old, that gay people are going to hell, as are 47% of the population and even before you think of the corruption, the scandal, the Red Sky, The NAMA, the wood pellets, etc etc etc.
SF should get medals for having stuck them for so long. Ten years of relatively stable govt. Incredible restraint. McGuinness meeting the Queen, going to see NI matches and Foster wouldn't even join him to go and see a ROI game. All little, petty, pathetic things.
What really grinds my gears is that some say 'they're all as bad as each other'., No they're not. There's one set of really bad eggs in there and you could toss a coin between the rest. ALliance coming out of this really well, but beyond Naomi, they've very little else. SDLP displaying perfectly the maxim that winners focus on winning, losers focus on winners. They are obsessed with SF and are trying to say they would be a good alternative govt with UU, while they disagree with them on the exact same things as SF disagree on; Irish language, LGBT, Brexit, The Past and get this - even if all their candidates get in, they haven't enough for a government anyway! ANd don't even mention the populist nutters in PBP who campaigned for Brexit and are now marching against it.
So, in summary, the only reasonable way to send the strongest possible message out to them all is to vote SF.
Quote from: Seany on February 07, 2017, 11:10:38 AM
Remember - This is not about the Irish language per se, but about an innate hatred they have of our identity and the particular things that make us Irish., They know they are living with a race of people with a very deep and ancient cultural past and that our songs, music, games, pastimes are what make us unique. They have none of this at all, so they turn things like bonfires, flags and parading past Catholic homes into their 'culture'. It's easy for them to throw muck at the GAA because of the 'grounds named after terrorists' thing, but the Irish language is much trickier for them to hide their naked bigotry because it's a language and therefore, just an innocent method of communication. So they attack it from two fronts - first by saying that by virtue of SF people using it, they are 'weaponising' it (did you ever hear such nonsense?) and second, by making their own language up Ulster Scots and demanding that it should get half the funding.
The problem is that because we as Irish are naturally welcoming, open minded and try to see logic, that we endeavour to understand and rationalise their behaviour, but in any other normal functioning society, they would be seen for what they are; bigots, in the past and without a political idea between them.
...and this isn't even mentioning their obsession with the Bible, their belief that the world is 5000 years old, that gay people are going to hell, as are 47% of the population and even before you think of the corruption, the scandal, the Red Sky, The NAMA, the wood pellets, etc etc etc.
SF should get medals for having stuck them for so long. Ten years of relatively stable govt. Incredible restraint. McGuinness meeting the Queen, going to see NI matches and Foster wouldn't even join him to go and see a ROI game. All little, petty, pathetic things.
What really grinds my gears is that some say 'they're all as bad as each other'., No they're not. There's one set of really bad eggs in there and you could toss a coin between the rest. ALliance coming out of this really well, but beyond Naomi, they've very little else. SDLP displaying perfectly the maxim that winners focus on winning, losers focus on winners. They are obsessed with SF and are trying to say they would be a good alternative govt with UU, while they disagree with them on the exact same things as SF disagree on; Irish language, LGBT, Brexit, The Past and get this - even if all their candidates get in, they haven't enough for a government anyway! ANd don't even mention the populist nutters in PBP who campaigned for Brexit and are now marching against it.
So, in summary, the only reasonable way to send the strongest possible message out to them all is to vote SF.
They are very like Trump's evangelicals who are descended from the same stock.
Quote from: Seany on February 07, 2017, 11:10:38 AM
What really grinds my gears is that some say 'they're all as bad as each other'., No they're not.
Completely agree with that, esp the quoted bit - it excuses those who really are c***ts, and excuses the person saying this for voting for them
In fairness this will be the first time I will actually cast a vote in an election. Either I've not bothered before or spoiled because the quality of politics in NI is appalling really.
This time I will vote for Sinn Fein though as I think the time is right for the DUP to get properly nailed. The RHI scandal should hit them with many of apathetic voters and should send a decent amount over to Mike TV. Along with that the doubling down of the anti nationalist rhetoric should mobilise a lot of apathetic Nationalist voters to shift towards Sinn Fein.
The most recent vile and disgusting comment about Nationalists/Republicans being 'crocodiles' is actually shocking by someone who is supposed to be the leader of everyone in NI. How f**king dare she do that.
I think she's seen the success of the Trump/Brexit campaign and she's decided to go in hard with the Anti Nationalist agenda this time in the hope it will win her more votes. I hope she does as Ireland and indeed Northern Ireland is much more liberal than the US or the UK and I think it could spectacularly backfire. . . hopefully it does!!
Quote from: haranguerer on February 07, 2017, 11:32:10 AM
Quote from: Seany on February 07, 2017, 11:10:38 AM
What really grinds my gears is that some say 'they're all as bad as each other'., No they're not.
Completely agree with that, esp the quoted bit - it excuses those who really are c***ts, and excuses the person saying this for voting for them
SF are useless and have been weak for years but to say they are as bad is wrong. The default argument now for fleggers defending the DUP is well at least the DUP didnt blow anyone up, Hillarious exchange on LAD yesterday. some guy going nuts at LAD for calling all DUP candidates bigots and jumped to the defence of saintly not a bigot bone in her body Pengelly then went on a rant about SF being ALL terrorists when someone pointed out Pengellys dads history it was a case of er but yeh but er but its nothing to do with her but still all SF where in the Ra like.
Quote from: screenexile on February 07, 2017, 11:43:05 AM
In fairness this will be the first time I will actually cast a vote in an election. Either I've not bothered before or spoiled because the quality of politics in NI is appalling really.
This time I will vote for Sinn Fein though as I think the time is right for the DUP to get properly nailed. The RHI scandal should hit them with many of apathetic voters and should send a decent amount over to Mike TV. Along with that the doubling down of the anti nationalist rhetoric should mobilise a lot of apathetic Nationalist voters to shift towards Sinn Fein.
The most recent vile and disgusting comment about Nationalists/Republicans being 'crocodiles' is actually shocking by someone who is supposed to be the leader of everyone in NI. How f**king dare she do that.
I think she's seen the success of the Trump/Brexit campaign and she's decided to go in hard with the Anti Nationalist agenda this time in the hope it will win her more votes. I hope she does as Ireland and indeed Northern Ireland is much more liberal than the US or the UK and I think it could spectacularly backfire. . . hopefully it does!!
Same as that ... SF a curates egg but this time total support to nail DUP
QuoteIn fairness this will be the first time I will actually cast a vote in an election. Either I've not bothered before or spoiled because the quality of politics in NI is appalling really.
This time I will vote for Sinn Fein though as I think the time is right for the DUP to get properly nailed.
My wife (who never votes Sinn Fein) is this time going to vote for Sinn Fein.
You never know.
The DUP has got such a hammering over the RHI scandal they (in their eyes) have to saturate their electorate with their tried and tested "Orange vs Green" dialogues. I'm convinced they have a "stepford wives" electorate. Just press the "Orange & Green" button and you have them regardless of how theyve behaved in government or the hope they offer this place. Fear is a powerful motivator
Quote from: winghalfun on February 07, 2017, 12:04:41 PM
QuoteIn fairness this will be the first time I will actually cast a vote in an election. Either I've not bothered before or spoiled because the quality of politics in NI is appalling really.
This time I will vote for Sinn Fein though as I think the time is right for the DUP to get properly nailed.
My wife (who never votes Sinn Fein) is this time going to vote for Sinn Fein.
You never know.
The Shinners don't have the base in Strangford to upset the applecart, but the SDLP have an outside chance, but the biggest option is an ex camog of ours who's standing for the Alliance and got in last time, but with one less candidate she'll have her work cut out for her.
Quote from: theskull1 on February 07, 2017, 12:14:27 PM
The DUP has got such a hammering over the RHI scandal they (in their eyes) have to saturate their electorate with their tried and tested "Orange vs Green" dialogues. I'm convinced they have a "stepford wives" electorate. Just press the "Orange & Green" button and you have them regardless of how theyve behaved in government or the hope they offer this place. Fear is a powerful motivator
The local Newtownards rag had a vox pop piece the other day and certainly the Orange and Green card seemed to be working as "Arlene made a mistake, but we can't let themmuns get in" was the overriding feeling, Newtownards has a history of being every bit as bad as the Craigavons back in the day, so hardly surprising.
Quote from: winghalfun on February 07, 2017, 12:04:41 PM
QuoteIn fairness this will be the first time I will actually cast a vote in an election. Either I've not bothered before or spoiled because the quality of politics in NI is appalling really.
This time I will vote for Sinn Fein though as I think the time is right for the DUP to get properly nailed.
My wife (who never votes Sinn Fein) is this time going to vote for Sinn Fein.
You never know.
If I lived in Norn Iron I would consider it too.
That Arelene Foster yoke boils my pee - it's not like Irish was the first language of the area she lives in for 1,000 years before her forebears stepped in. Equating it to Polish my hole. I thought Paisley was bad (and he was), I thought Peter the Punt was bad (and he was too) but she is the dourest, most narrow-minded, bigoted hateful auld melt I have seen in a long time.
Quote from: screenexile on February 07, 2017, 11:43:05 AM
This time I will vote for Sinn Fein though as I think the time is right for the DUP to get properly nailed. The RHI scandal should hit them with many of apathetic voters and should send a decent amount over to Mike TV. Along with that the doubling down of the anti nationalist rhetoric should mobilise a lot of apathetic Nationalist voters to shift towards Sinn Fein.
First and foremost it will hopefully ensure that a lot of apathetic Nationalist voters actually vote, and not just for Sinn Féin but that they carry on for all the anti Brexit parties, and even the UU. The GFA was an imperfect deal, but the idea behind it was a useful one and the DUP are going full tilt to dismantle this, and people need to vote to stop them.
It does make you wonder about the unionist electorate though, the presumption being that while you always had hardliners, you also had a substantial cohort that wanted some sort of power sharing to work. But in Fermanagh you have big numbers voting for Foster, despite the fact that about the only business in Fermanagh is cross border or agribusiness, and so adversely affected by Brexit and since stirring the pot is not likely to lead to a unionist outcome for West of the Bann, as the outcome could be disorder, effective re-partition etc.
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on February 07, 2017, 12:32:57 PM
That Arelene Foster yoke boils my pee - it's not like Irish was the first language of the area she lives in for 1,000 years before her forebears stepped in. Equating it to Polish my hole. I thought Paisley was bad (and he was), I thought Peter the Punt was bad (and he was too) but she is the dourest, most narrow-minded, bigoted hateful auld melt I have seen in a long time.
Was it the Guardian that described her as everyone's idea of a 1970s Aeroflot hostess. Making us look back on Paisley and Robinson as having some merits too some doing.
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on February 07, 2017, 12:32:57 PM
Quote from: winghalfun on February 07, 2017, 12:04:41 PM
QuoteIn fairness this will be the first time I will actually cast a vote in an election. Either I've not bothered before or spoiled because the quality of politics in NI is appalling really.
This time I will vote for Sinn Fein though as I think the time is right for the DUP to get properly nailed.
My wife (who never votes Sinn Fein) is this time going to vote for Sinn Fein.
You never know.
If I lived in Norn Iron I would consider it too.
That Arelene Foster yoke boils my pee - it's not like Irish was the first language of the area she lives in for 1,000 years before her forebears stepped in. Equating it to Polish my hole. I thought Paisley was bad (and he was), I thought Peter the Punt was bad (and he was too) but she is the dourest, most narrow-minded, bigoted hateful auld melt I have seen in a long time.
Most of the place-names in NI come from Gaeilge. So it is a threat to Unionist identity. Because there was something in the holy land before the settlers. Every time Arlene says Enniskillen is a reminder of that.
Spot on skull
Your average unionist will always indulge in the tactical vote regardless of how they really feel about their representatives and fair play to them they show up in their droves on voting day
It's inherently brainwashed into them form an early age and Foster and co are just stirring the sometimes dormant bitterness for a continued electorate monopoly
Time for Nationalist to adopt the same mindset as the demographics suggest we are to aphatetic compared to our unionist neighbours
Vote vote vote vote
What's the craic in Fermanagh/South Tyrone this time round? Mike TV has (better late than never) got rid of the joint 'understanding' to not run against each other in tight constituencies. What's the thoughts on seat breakdown? Two SF, Two DUP one between either SDLP (McPhillips) and UUP (unsure of candidate).
Lads and lassies - vote all the way down the ballot paper till you come to DUP.
Is Arlene's new stance just to cover up the boiler scandal? That's one way to deflect attention and re-focus her voters on the real issue (i.e SF/IRA/Irish Language)
Quote from: johnneycool on February 07, 2017, 12:29:59 PM
Quote from: winghalfun on February 07, 2017, 12:04:41 PM
QuoteIn fairness this will be the first time I will actually cast a vote in an election. Either I've not bothered before or spoiled because the quality of politics in NI is appalling really.
This time I will vote for Sinn Fein though as I think the time is right for the DUP to get properly nailed.
My wife (who never votes Sinn Fein) is this time going to vote for Sinn Fein.
You never know.
The Shinners don't have the base in Strangford to upset the applecart, but the SDLP have an outside chance, but the biggest option is an ex camog of ours who's standing for the Alliance and got in last time, but with one less candidate she'll have her work cut out for her.
Quote from: theskull1 on February 07, 2017, 12:14:27 PM
The DUP has got such a hammering over the RHI scandal they (in their eyes) have to saturate their electorate with their tried and tested "Orange vs Green" dialogues. I'm convinced they have a "stepford wives" electorate. Just press the "Orange & Green" button and you have them regardless of how theyve behaved in government or the hope they offer this place. Fear is a powerful motivator
The local Newtownards rag had a vox pop piece the other day and certainly the Orange and Green card seemed to be working as "Arlene made a mistake, but we can't let themmuns get in" was the overriding feeling, Newtownards has a history of being every bit as bad as the Craigavons back in the day, so hardly surprising.
JC
I thought I read johnathon bell was standing as an independent in strangford
The nationalist vote is up against it the same as up here in north Antrim
Can bell take a seat of the DUP if so job done
From the outside looking in this is definitely one you file under the sectarian bigotry category.
Question is that because that is what Arlene is, or if she is playing to the gallery for electoral reasons.
If one wanted to show compromise or reaching out I would have thought a watery language act and a bit of funding thrown towards it would be a low hanging fruit.
Painting it as part of a Sinn Féin attack on all things unionist seems an odd thing, but I guess they need a bogey man to get their electorate out.
Arlene seems to have quite the chip about the republican movement (given her background that is understandable) and a complete inability to separate that chip from the rest of nationalist/catholic population. That will continue to cause issues going forward.
/Jim.
Quote from: omagh_gael on February 07, 2017, 12:52:27 PM
What's the craic in Fermanagh/South Tyrone this time round? Mike TV has (better late than never) got rid of the joint 'understanding' to not run against each other in tight constituencies. What's the thoughts on seat breakdown? Two SF, Two DUP one between either SDLP (McPhillips) and UUP (unsure of candidate).
The UU always ran in assembly elections, with 5 seats and PR, why not. Nesbitt's mettle will be shown in FTP Westminster elections.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 07, 2017, 12:56:55 PM
Lads and lassies - vote all the way down the ballot paper till you come to DUP.
That's the thing with PR. It's as much about voting against people as for them if you use it correctly.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 07, 2017, 01:57:48 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on February 07, 2017, 12:52:27 PM
What's the craic in Fermanagh/South Tyrone this time round? Mike TV has (better late than never) got rid of the joint 'understanding' to not run against each other in tight constituencies. What's the thoughts on seat breakdown? Two SF, Two DUP one between either SDLP (McPhillips) and UUP (unsure of candidate).
The UU always ran in assembly elections, with 5 seats and PR, why not. Nesbitt's mettle will be shown in FTP Westminster elections.
Getting mixed up in westminster and local I think - thats where the agreements were, and will be interesting to see come the next one. Mike tried to portray his last deal as a masterstroke designed to see the inner workings of the DUP! What a tool
Upon doing a bit of research on the assembly thread I noticed that error. Interestingly there appears to be a significant drop off in voter turnout in unionist v nationalist areas. If the green vote gets back up to where it was ten years ago and they start using PR voting correctly they could hit the DUP hard. Getting them under 30 seats is the target.
Has anybody had the Shinners at their door yet? Interested to see if they start to advocate or direct towards voting down the paper.
What would you expect from a pig only a grunt.
Arlene trying to appeal to lowest common denominator as per usual.
After the boiler scandal she knows this is the thing to save her. If you dont vote for me the Sinners will pass the Irish language vote, erode away your Britishness etc etc
Smart move on DUP part and shows the mentality of what turns on many of the voters up here.
Sad sad state of affairs and why the place is still a mess
Quote from: AQMP on February 07, 2017, 02:56:12 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on February 07, 2017, 12:52:27 PM
Transfers look key here and there's no love lost between SF and SDLP in these parts and transfers between the two are low.
You would hope that they would get over it and ensure 3 seats for nationalists.
Why is there a need for an Irish Language Act? Are there not hundreds of Irish language classes (apart from those in schools) happening day and daily,including even classes for Protestants in East Belfast? Has there been any impediment ever preventing anyone from learning Irish?
Quote from: Rossfan on February 07, 2017, 12:56:55 PM
Lads and lassies - vote all the way down the ballot paper till you come to DUP.
I'm sure all gaaboarders will do that anyway!
Quote from: T Fearon on February 07, 2017, 10:33:08 PM
Why is there a need for an Irish Language Act? Are there not hundreds of Irish language classes (apart from those in schools) happening day and daily,including even classes for Protestants in East Belfast? Has there been any impediment ever preventing anyone from learning Irish?
Are you not friends with Linda Ervine on Facebook? You could ask her.
http://www.ebm.org.uk/turas/ (http://www.ebm.org.uk/turas/)
I'm not friends with her,but it still does not explain the rationale for an Irish language Act as there are classes galore,even in East Belfast
Quote from: T Fearon on February 07, 2017, 11:11:49 PM
I'm not friends with her,but it still does not explain the rationale for an Irish language Act as there are classes galore,even in East Belfast
To bring Northern Ireland in line with other legislation in the rest of U.K. If it's good enough for actual British people, why not Northern Ireland?
Is it really necessary? People can and do learn Irish.Why is this necessary?
Quote from: T Fearon on February 07, 2017, 11:42:00 PM
Is it really necessary? People can and do learn Irish.Why is this necessary?
It is necessary after 900 years of colonial suppression to have some official recognition of the native language of the country.
It took just twenty years for the british to nearly wipe the irish language from the north. Think about that.
It seems to me that the language is thriving,with many Protestants attending classes in East Belfast even,all in public funded buildings,so I don't see any need for legislation.Far more important things to worry about like the Economy,Health Service etc,rather than the DUP and SF distractions like this.
Quote from: T Fearon on February 08, 2017, 05:20:31 AM
It seems to me that the language is thriving,with many Protestants attending classes in East Belfast even,all in public funded buildings,so I don't see any need for legislation.Far more important things to worry about like the Economy,Health Service etc,rather than the DUP and SF distractions like this.
My understanding is that the Irsih language act is to be brought in to help re-establish the languange very much the same way the Welsh language act helped with the welsh language
"The Welsh Language Act 1993, is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom, which put the Welsh language on an equal footing with the English language in Wales with regard to the public sector"
Quote from: Hereiam on February 08, 2017, 12:10:04 AM
It took just twenty years for the british to nearly wipe the irish language from the north. Think about that.
Really. If you want people to have a love for their culture and language you do it through your education system and back it up with the work within the wide range of voluntary cultural organisations such as the GAA, CCE, Gael Linn, etc. that exist across the country.
The reality is that within primary schools the curriculum has changed drastically over the last 30 years with the introduction of the national curriculum by the UK government that introduced new aspects to the curriculum; demanded much more time for core subjects; and by doing so reduced the time for PE, music and the wider curriculum. This removed the discretion of the teacher to develop the cultural elements in schools. I was lucky enough to attend Greenpark CBS during the 1960s and it was an example of how the Irish culture, history and language could be developed alongside Gaelic games. This was repeated across the country in most Catholic primary schools. Today, there is barely time for any teacher to spend time on these aspects of providing a true education with the emphasis on a prescribed curriculum, heavy duty assessment of children from Year 3 to 7 and slavery to planning out any spontaneity of the school day.
3 SF ministers of education over the last 10 years never addressed this situation and developed a truly localised curriculum, returning responsibility to the teachers and allowing time for both communities to develop their culture, heritage and games. Instead, Irish has been concentrated in Irish Medium schools for a very tiny percentage of the population and the others are largely excluded from any formalised emphasis on language and cultural development.
In secondary schools, Irish fights for a place with French, Spanish, German and Mandarin. Luckily Latin has largely dropped off the curriculum. Where choice of language is provided to parents in such schools a majority do not choose Irish and only very small numbers study Irish beyond third year to GCSE with even smaller numbers at A level. There is no cultural curriculum to allow languages to be taught on an oral basis along with the cultural aspects associated with the language. Either GCSE or nothing. Most will be able to provide examples of being taught Irish in secondary school that does not make great reading. Again, 3 SF education ministers made no effort to bring such changes to the mass of children in schools. Instead there are less than a handful of IM secondary schools.
So, if there was a real desire to develop the language and provide a wide base for the demand for an Irish Language Act of people who are immersed in their language and culture. Instead we have political representatives telling people if you can understand or say a few words of Irish then tick the box of Irish speaker in the household in the census return which not provides the basis for anti Irish commentators to deride the census return figures for Irish speaking households in N.Ireland. The lack of cultural education in our schools causes people to focus only on the use of the language as a communication medium instead of realising that the use of Irish and the associated culture is all around everyone in N.Ireland.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 07, 2017, 09:30:04 AM
Couldnt agree more.
Shame on Unionists to continue to vote for these b#stards no matter what and shame on Nationalists for not being bothered enought to vote them out, What other society would just accept such sectarianism, racism, homophobia, corruption, incompetence etc etc. With such ridiculous apathy most nationalists deserve all they get and have no right to moan over Brexit, marching or whatever else if they dont bother to do anything about it and shame on the British government for just sitting back and letting the DUP do whatever the feck they want.
Why do northerners think they're specail?
This is supported all over the world.
This is why Brexit, Trump etc couldn't be predicted.
All the media and academic types (the ones in positions to air their views nationally) thinking they are above it all and therefore so is society.
Living in the 20% or 5% bubbles thinking they are trend setters.
Those posting their disgust here, can you all speak Irish, do your kids attend naiscoil, bhunscoil, meánscoil - or do you just want this act to give two fingers to the prods?
Wrong any MP in England that would come up with half the shit the average DUPer does would be hounded by the media and public until they were forced to make a grovelling apology and resign. The extraordinary thing is Cameron, May or whoever seem to give Unionists a pass over the most ridiculous things something they wouldnt do for their own party members and for what to secure 9 votes out of 650 are they completely mad!!
Quote from: No wides on February 09, 2017, 08:23:32 AM
Those posting their disgust here, can you all speak Irish, do your kids attend naiscoil, bhunscoil, meánscoil - or do you just want this act to give two fingers to the prods?
Hilarious I mean those feckers at burntollet were just asking for it how dare they. If you cant see the bigger picture then I give up.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 09, 2017, 08:30:07 AM
Quote from: No wides on February 09, 2017, 08:23:32 AM
Those posting their disgust here, can you all speak Irish, do your kids attend naiscoil, bhunscoil, meánscoil - or do you just want this act to give two fingers to the prods?
Hilarious I mean those feckers at burntollet were just asking for it how dare they. If you cant see the bigger picture then I give up.
What's the bigger picture?
personally I find it extremely frustrating that the communication costs of local governments - every minute, publication, signpost, announcement - are more than double what they would be if English only, yet there is not a single person on this earth who understands the Irish version who also wouldn't understand the English.
I'm all for a bit of culture. I'm all for Gaeiligors having the opportunity to further their language. But to be honest I'd place a higher value on public sector efficiency. An unnecessary duplication of public costs is shameful imho, regardless of your beliefs.
Quote from: thewobbler on February 09, 2017, 09:00:30 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 09, 2017, 08:30:07 AM
Quote from: No wides on February 09, 2017, 08:23:32 AM
Those posting their disgust here, can you all speak Irish, do your kids attend naiscoil, bhunscoil, meánscoil - or do you just want this act to give two fingers to the prods?
Hilarious I mean those feckers at burntollet were just asking for it how dare they. If you cant see the bigger picture then I give up.
What's the bigger picture?
personally I find it extremely frustrating that the communication costs of local governments - every minute, publication, signpost, announcement - are more than double what they would be if English only, yet there is not a single person on this earth who understands the Irish version who also wouldn't understand the English.
I'm all for a bit of culture. I'm all for Gaeiligors having the opportunity to further their language. But to be honest I'd place a higher value on public sector efficiency. An unnecessary duplication of public costs is shameful imho, regardless of your beliefs.
Public sector efficiency is a psychological/cultural issue.On a par with draining the Shandon.
Belgium and Switz have public info in various languages. Most Romansch speakers understand German. for example Having stuff in Romansch is about respect.
Quote from: thewobbler on February 09, 2017, 09:00:30 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 09, 2017, 08:30:07 AM
Quote from: No wides on February 09, 2017, 08:23:32 AM
Those posting their disgust here, can you all speak Irish, do your kids attend naiscoil, bhunscoil, meánscoil - or do you just want this act to give two fingers to the prods?
Hilarious I mean those feckers at burntollet were just asking for it how dare they. If you cant see the bigger picture then I give up.
What's the bigger picture?
personally I find it extremely frustrating that the communication costs of local governments - every minute, publication, signpost, announcement - are more than double what they would be if English only, yet there is not a single person on this earth who understands the Irish version who also wouldn't understand the English.
I'm all for a bit of culture. I'm all for Gaeiligors having the opportunity to further their language. But to be honest I'd place a higher value on public sector efficiency. An unnecessary duplication of public costs is shameful imho, regardless of your beliefs.
Come on now dont be falling for Nelson McCauslands lies over costs. A lot of the expense is already there you just replace things as and when needed. Yes extra staff for translations would need to be emplyed but its a drop in the ocean compared to the money literally being burnt up in the RHI scandal and I would say its a small price to pay to try and revitalise the language in Northern Ireland
The bigger picture is the not an inch mentality as it is deemed to be a taigy act then its of course a never from the DUP. Here is the reality an Irish language act brings us into line with THE REST OF THE UK not Ireland. Dont the DUP want us to be an integral part of the UK? Answer No, they want Northern Ireland to be super British because even Britain is not British enough. The other key point is it was part of an agreement that the overwhelming majority of people in Northern Ireland supported in the 1998 referendum. Funnily enough the 2 fingers to prods is crazy if only they actually opened their eyes and looked across the water they would see that Scots Gaelic a branch of Irish is spoken in the islands and highlands by some of the most protestant people in the world.
To not try and push it cause it might upset some bigots is daft and would leave us where we where 60 years ago the fact that nationalist have tried to make things work and tried not to rock the boat for the last 10 years has got us to the crisis we now find ourselves at. If they had a backbone then we could all have got to this conclusion many years ago
Quote from: thewobbler on February 09, 2017, 09:00:30 AM
I'm all for a bit of culture. I'm all for Gaeiligors having the opportunity to further their language. But to be honest I'd place a higher value on public sector efficiency. An unnecessary duplication of public costs is shameful imho, regardless of your beliefs.
While public cost certainly an issue, public policy in this regard should not be used as an instrument of cultural extermination on the basis of cost. If cost minimisation was used in all matters of public policy then that would be one thing, but then you could say that the government should just fund soccer pitches, and not rugby or GAA pitches as everyone can play soccer and the pitch is simpler and cheaper to provide. Or they should not provide cycle lanes as cyclists can just go on the road or walk and so on.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2017, 10:58:01 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 09, 2017, 09:00:30 AM
I'm all for a bit of culture. I'm all for Gaeiligors having the opportunity to further their language. But to be honest I'd place a higher value on public sector efficiency. An unnecessary duplication of public costs is shameful imho, regardless of your beliefs.
While public cost certainly an issue, public policy in this regard should not be used as an instrument of cultural extermination on the basis of cost. If cost minimisation was used in all matters of public policy then that would be one thing, but then you could say that the government should just fund soccer pitches, and not rugby or GAA pitches as everyone can play soccer and the pitch is simpler and cheaper to provide. Or they should not provide cycle lanes as cyclists can just go on the road or walk and so on.
1. Cultural protection is practiced throughout the world , and much like legislation to protect listed buildings, it's considered by most to be worthwhile , as long as that cultural expression is positive. Few would argue that the protection and promotion of native languages is a positive,and that principle is respected in Wales and Scotland,for example.
2. To wheel out an old cliché : spare us from a society that recognises the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
3. What is the actual cost? If a few ££££ of public money is invested in providing employment (for translators) then that is not a waste of money compared to several other public costs .
4. This current spat has actual very little to do with the Irish language per se. Regardless of anyone's political persuasion and respect for Stormont etc, we pay our taxes , and fully expect the first minister and deputy first minister to represent ALL of the people within the jurisdiction. Arlene and her supporters actually don't value or respect a large section of the population, and our culture and aspirations .
5. Sadly she knows that her best chance of getting re-elected is , not to adopt a statesmanlike stance and do what's best for the whole population in the North, but actually to pander to the extremists who are much easier to get to the polling stations!
6.The DUP has proved to be at best a "dog in the manger" by playing the sectarian card to get re-elected, and then consistently preventing progress on real political issues: "health, education, jobs, equality )
7. However the DUP are only part of the problem, those who actually don't get out and vote( And vote tactically to minimise DUP seats) are equally responsible , especially those who espouse the lazy and immature political analysis such as "it's the same on both sides " .
It's about time we grew up politically and make a concerted effort to get these DUP dinosaurs out of power, and importantly show what can be achieved if their replacements show respect for all and we get to focus on real issues !
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2017, 10:58:01 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 09, 2017, 09:00:30 AM
I'm all for a bit of culture. I'm all for Gaeiligors having the opportunity to further their language. But to be honest I'd place a higher value on public sector efficiency. An unnecessary duplication of public costs is shameful imho, regardless of your beliefs.
While public cost certainly an issue, public policy in this regard should not be used as an instrument of cultural extermination on the basis of cost. If cost minimisation was used in all matters of public policy then that would be one thing, but then you could say that the government should just fund soccer pitches, and not rugby or GAA pitches as everyone can play soccer and the pitch is simpler and cheaper to provide. Or they should not provide cycle lanes as cyclists can just go on the road or walk and so on.
There is no cultural extermination. If you want to you can send your kids to Irish schools, can attend Irish classes, listen to local radio programmes, watch local tv programmes etc.
Quote from: AQMP on February 09, 2017, 09:40:49 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 09, 2017, 09:00:30 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 09, 2017, 08:30:07 AM
Quote from: No wides on February 09, 2017, 08:23:32 AM
Those posting their disgust here, can you all speak Irish, do your kids attend naiscoil, bhunscoil, meánscoil - or do you just want this act to give two fingers to the prods?
Hilarious I mean those feckers at burntollet were just asking for it how dare they. If you cant see the bigger picture then I give up.
What's the bigger picture?
personally I find it extremely frustrating that the communication costs of local governments - every minute, publication, signpost, announcement - are more than double what they would be if English only, yet there is not a single person on this earth who understands the Irish version who also wouldn't understand the English.
I'm all for a bit of culture. I'm all for Gaeiligors having the opportunity to further their language. But to be honest I'd place a higher value on public sector efficiency. An unnecessary duplication of public costs is shameful imho, regardless of your beliefs.
See all those men and women in prison...wouldn't it be far cheaper just to shoot them??
;D ;D
TBF Getting them all on exercise bikes hooked up to the Grid would probably be better...no more need for those unsightly turbines defacing Tyrone.
I think no wides might be finding his niche now as chief dissenter, its a valuable role for thrashing out arguments.
Quote from: No wides on February 09, 2017, 08:23:32 AM
Those posting their disgust here, can you all speak Irish, do your kids attend naiscoil, bhunscoil, meánscoil - or do you just want this act to give two fingers to the prods?
Take a stroll along the Falls road sometime. You will see far more Man Utd Liverpool and Celtic jerseys than Antrim GAA jerseys. Thats your answer.
Why not just refuse to recognise the statelet and end that farce up on the hill once and for all. Demand joint authority and if the brits refuse then direct rule it is. In a post brexit scenario the likelihood is that Scotland, who unionists claim most allegiance to, will vote to leave the union. The little Englanders who pushed for brexit don't give a flying fiddlers for the red, white and blue bigots over here, and if it's emphasised how much this failed statelet is costing them they'll grow even more fucked off about it. Labour will be decimated in any election under corbyn, thus the tories won't need the dup votes. With no sway in Westminster and no assembly, they're fucked IMO
Quote from: red hander on February 09, 2017, 06:31:10 PM
Why not just refuse to recognise the statelet and end that farce up on the hill once and for all. Demand joint authority and if the brits refuse then direct rule it is. In a post brexit scenario the likelihood is that Scotland, who unionists claim most allegiance to, will vote to leave the union. The little Englanders who pushed for brexit don't give a flying fiddlers for the red, white and blue bigots over here, and if it's emphasised how much this failed statelet is costing them they'll grow even more fucked off about it. Labour will be decimated in any election under corbyn, thus the tories won't need the dup votes. With no sway in Westminster and no assembly, they're fucked IMO
In order to let foreigners into the policing body of the republic the Dail decided to drop the requirement of knowing the Irish language, of I was that fat pig Arlene I would mask my hatred of the Irish behind the fact not one shinner raised an eyebrow when this came up for debate, so why would this issue be an issue?
Quote from: thewobbler on February 09, 2017, 09:00:30 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 09, 2017, 08:30:07 AM
Quote from: No wides on February 09, 2017, 08:23:32 AM
Those posting their disgust here, can you all speak Irish, do your kids attend naiscoil, bhunscoil, meánscoil - or do you just want this act to give two fingers to the prods?
Hilarious I mean those feckers at burntollet were just asking for it how dare they. If you cant see the bigger picture then I give up.
What's the bigger picture?
personally I find it extremely frustrating that the communication costs of local governments - every minute, publication, signpost, announcement - are more than double what they would be if English only, yet there is not a single person on this earth who understands the Irish version who also wouldn't understand the English.
I'm all for a bit of culture. I'm all for Gaeiligors having the opportunity to further their language. But to be honest I'd place a higher value on public sector efficiency. An unnecessary duplication of public costs is shameful imho, regardless of your beliefs.
There are Government departments for health, jobs and education. Culture gets a fraction of the budget, and from that they have to develop sport, arts, culture, leisure etc. Language is a fraction of a fraction.
The language needs formal protection to stop the DUP deleting it. We do not need to converse in Irish to appreciate it. Everyone should know and understand where our names and placenames come from.
Orior I know dozens of people who can string together Amhrán na bhFiann in pigeon Irish if challenged, yet they don't know the words in English. So basically they've no idea what the song is about.
My lesson from this is that more people than you might imagine don't give a fiddler's f**k about why things are called what they are.
Certainly it has never bothered me why Hill Street in Newry is flat: I just need to know what shops are on it.
The Irish Language movement has unfortunately gained some of the same fascist / zealot undertones that the poppy campaign has unfortunately endured. For the diehards, general awareness is not enough, and they will campaign, dump and force their wares on everyone until it becomes a tribal statement to step aside.
I'm guessing that the DUP's more moderate types are wary of this, while the hardliners would always say no anyway - because that's their thing. Either way, the Irishman Language movement will make greater advances into NI culture (I believe) if they target people who want to learn it, and allow it to spread organically, rather than force everyone to join in.
Sure nobody knows yet what the Irish Language Act will contain. So why dismiss it at this stage?
Quote from: thewobbler on February 09, 2017, 10:03:07 PM
Certainly it has never bothered me why Hill Street in Newry is flat: I just need to know what shops are on it.
It is flat because it is on a river bank.
QuoteI'm guessing that the DUP's more moderate types are wary of this, while the hardliners would always say no anyway - because that's their thing. Either way, the Irishman Language movement will make greater advances into NI culture (I believe) if they target people who want to learn it, and allow it to spread organically, rather than force everyone to join in.
It isn't clear that anyone will be forced to join in, except there may be a reduction in Irish speakers forced to speak English. But the interests of the Paddies is never quite on a par, is it?
The clever bigot Arlene played the insult-all-nationalists line about the Irish language being second to Polish in NI as well as a never-never-never line thrown in which successfully knocked RHI off the front pages and headlines every day since.
Quote from: hardstation on February 09, 2017, 10:10:39 PM
It's forcing everyone to join in.
It does? So you've seen the proposed legislation?
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2017, 10:30:36 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 09, 2017, 10:03:07 PM
Certainly it has never bothered me why Hill Street in Newry is flat: I just need to know what shops are on it.
It is flat because it is on a river bank.
Named after Thomas Hill?
Quote from: thewobbler on February 09, 2017, 10:03:07 PM
Orior I know dozens of people who can string together Amhrán na bhFiann in pigeon Irish if challenged, yet they don't know the words in English. So basically they've no idea what the song is about.
My lesson from this is that more people than you might imagine don't give a fiddler's f**k about why things are called what they are.
Certainly it has never bothered me why Hill Street in Newry is flat: I just need to know what shops are on it.
The Irish Language movement has unfortunately gained some of the same fascist / zealot undertones that the poppy campaign has unfortunately endured. For the diehards, general awareness is not enough, and they will campaign, dump and force their wares on everyone until it becomes a tribal statement to step aside.
I'm guessing that the DUP's more moderate types are wary of this, while the hardliners would always say no anyway - because that's their thing. Either way, the Irishman Language movement will make greater advances into NI culture (I believe) if they target people who want to learn it, and allow it to spread organically, rather than force everyone to join in.
I respect your right not to give a fiddlers, but too many in Ireland as a whole don't appear to respect others rights to actually care and value elements of our culture. There is either accusation or insinuation that valuing indigenous culture actually makes us bigots. I happen to care about and enjoy the things that make us unique, in the same way as I respect and enjoy aspects of different cultures.
We all have seen the dangers in dismissing and belittling other cultures manifest currently via Trump.
In England for example there are traditions like cricket on the village green, Morris dancing and the royal family which don"t interest me , but I absolutely respect these traditions and understand their value to communities in England. If a property developer rolled into Midsommer to tear up the local cricket pitch to build a towerblock Call centre, I wonder how it would be viewed. Countries like Britain, France and Ireland mainly respect indigenous and foreign culture, And if we didn't , Shakespeare, the Louvre and Irish dancing could be long gone.
Who knows the specifics of an Irish language act, but anything that protects positive culture should be welcomed. In my experience very few people use the Irish language as a weapon, and I feel this is a convenient narrative for those who "don't want a fenian about the place" . More importantly I would agree with the previous post that the attack on the Irish language is a smokescreen to ensure that yet again this election becomes a sectarian headcount rather than addressing the issues that really count!
I think we'll see progress with Michelle at the helm in stormont. DUP will have to negotiate their way out of the mess they created for themselves and they'll know the act will be on the table.
Quote from: RedHandTom on February 10, 2017, 07:15:16 AM
I think we'll see progress with Michelle at the helm in stormont. DUP will have to negotiate their way out of the mess they created for themselves and they'll know the act will be on the table.
DUP will not back down. Direct rule here we come which looks equally grim. May and Brokenshire only too happy to look after their chums in the DUP and what will nationalists do? - well feck all, it might take another 10 yrs for the penny to finally drop maybe then they may start voting again and make their numbers count.
Foster keeps on reminding voters that if her party doesn't return the largest number of votes the way of life in NI will be threatened. I have been following the teachings of Sri Guru Fearon who preaches a belief in the unique culture of NI so I find Foster's positioning very confusing.
Quote from: thewobbler on February 09, 2017, 10:03:07 PM
Orior I know dozens of people who can string together Amhrán na bhFiann in pigeon Irish if challenged, yet they don't know the words in English. So basically they've no idea what the song is about.
The official tranlation is a bastardisation of the the Anthem. So those that have learnt it in English only don't know what it's about either.
Quote from: red hander on February 09, 2017, 06:31:10 PM
Why not just refuse to recognise the statelet and end that farce up on the hill once and for all. Demand joint authority and if the brits refuse then direct rule it is. In a post brexit scenario the likelihood is that Scotland, who unionists claim most allegiance to, will vote to leave the union. The little Englanders who pushed for brexit don't give a flying fiddlers for the red, white and blue bigots over here, and if it's emphasised how much this failed statelet is costing them they'll grow even more fucked off about it. Labour will be decimated in any election under corbyn, thus the tories won't need the dup votes. With no sway in Westminster and no assembly, they're fucked IMO
Whilst I agree with much of what you say, scotland will be there for the long haul.
Quote from: No wides on February 10, 2017, 08:20:16 AM
Quote from: red hander on February 09, 2017, 06:31:10 PM
Why not just refuse to recognise the statelet and end that farce up on the hill once and for all. Demand joint authority and if the brits refuse then direct rule it is. In a post brexit scenario the likelihood is that Scotland, who unionists claim most allegiance to, will vote to leave the union. The little Englanders who pushed for brexit don't give a flying fiddlers for the red, white and blue bigots over here, and if it's emphasised how much this failed statelet is costing them they'll grow even more fucked off about it. Labour will be decimated in any election under corbyn, thus the tories won't need the dup votes. With no sway in Westminster and no assembly, they're fucked IMO
Whilst I agree with much of what you say, scotland will be there for the long haul.
Unless oil goes back above $100
I say again - Those posting their disgust here, can you all speak Irish, do your kids attend naiscoil, bhunscoil, meánscoil - or do you just want this act to give two fingers to the prods?
Anyone who needs to see british street names like English Street and Scotch Street in Irish to make them feel wanted need to get a f**king grip. Save our identity - save the language, go learn it!
Quote from: seafoid on February 10, 2017, 08:21:27 AM
Quote from: No wides on February 10, 2017, 08:20:16 AM
Quote from: red hander on February 09, 2017, 06:31:10 PM
Why not just refuse to recognise the statelet and end that farce up on the hill once and for all. Demand joint authority and if the brits refuse then direct rule it is. In a post brexit scenario the likelihood is that Scotland, who unionists claim most allegiance to, will vote to leave the union. The little Englanders who pushed for brexit don't give a flying fiddlers for the red, white and blue bigots over here, and if it's emphasised how much this failed statelet is costing them they'll grow even more fucked off about it. Labour will be decimated in any election under corbyn, thus the tories won't need the dup votes. With no sway in Westminster and no assembly, they're fucked IMO
Whilst I agree with much of what you say, scotland will be there for the long haul.
Unless oil goes back above $100
So if England give Scotland another referendum, and if the Scottish folk vote to leave (neither of which will happen) you think Scotland just keeps all the oil, you live in a fantasy land!
Quote from: No wides on February 10, 2017, 08:26:20 AM
I say again - Those posting their disgust here, can you all speak Irish, do your kids attend naiscoil, bhunscoil, meánscoil - or do you just want this act to give two fingers to the prods?
Anyone who needs to see british street names like English Street and Scotch Street in Irish to make them feel wanted need to get a f**king grip. Save our identity - save the language, go learn it!
Dubhghlas de hÍde was a Protestant. Doubt he would stick 2 fingers up to his own religion...
Quote from: AQMP on February 10, 2017, 09:54:26 AM
Quote from: No wides on February 10, 2017, 08:26:20 AM
I say again - Those posting their disgust here, can you all speak Irish, do your kids attend naiscoil, bhunscoil, meánscoil - or do you just want this act to give two fingers to the prods?
Anyone who needs to see british street names like English Street and Scotch Street in Irish to make them feel wanted need to get a f**king grip. Save our identity - save the language, go learn it!
I wouldn't do that to Linda Ervine
Ha! You're a terrible person.
Quote from: No wides on February 10, 2017, 08:26:20 AM
I say again - Those posting their disgust here, can you all speak Irish, do your kids attend naiscoil, bhunscoil, meánscoil - or do you just want this act to give two fingers to the prods?
Anyone who needs to see british street names like English Street and Scotch Street in Irish to make them feel wanted need to get a f**king grip. Save our identity - save the language, go learn it!
So only those who attend Scoileanna are allowed to have a grá for ár theanga.
Incidentally, I totally agree re this ridiculous gaelicisation of English names, and the sooner we change "Belfast" back to " Béal Feirste" the better😜
Mo theanga
Ár dteanga
Nach ea?
Listen to rugby referee, Nigel Owens, on Talkback today speaking about the Welsh language, the importance of having a native language and the implementation of the Welsh Language Act. It was a neutral voice extolling the importance of a language act.
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 10, 2017, 07:51:45 PM
Listen to rugby referee, Nigel Owens, on Talkback today speaking about the Welsh language, the importance of having a native language and the implementation of the Welsh Language Act. It was a neutral voice extolling the importance of a language act.
Exactly. It isn't as if speaking Welsh has lead to outbreaks of nationalism.
Its the DUP being the DUP. I tell you if they could find some way of criminalising the GAA and banning it in the north they would.
Quote from: hardstation on February 10, 2017, 07:02:54 PM
FWIW, you should eclipse after ár rather than lenite.
Go raibh maith agat
Without stating the obvious no Irish Language Act is nothing new & didnt SF sign up for the last Programme for Government that excluded an Irish Language Act?
Quote from: Minder on February 11, 2017, 12:48:15 PM
Without stating the obvious no Irish Language Act is nothing new & didnt SF sign up for the last Programme for Government that excluded an Irish Language Act?
Correct. They agreed a programme without ILA or redefinition of marriage legislation. The whole equality demand only came to the fore when they decided to cause the election. Becoming apparent that it was cover for failure to deal with the implementation of the Bengoa Report that was delivered to the Minister in June 2016, only brought to public in October 2016 and the failure to accept/demand funding for waiting lists in the quarterly financial reviews. Also looking like cover with the failure to deal adequately with the tight financial situation particularly on recurrent revenue expenditure and deliver the additional expenditure needed in the 2017-18 budget to deliver the Bengoa Report. Also the failure to publish the results of the quarterly reviews to show how departments are spending or accumulating their funds. Easier to use RHI as cover for an election and then putting an unrealistic demand for Foster to stand aside in new mandate while allowing direct rule and avoiding the responsibility to govern the country as the vast majority of the public want to resolve major health, education and social care issues.
Read today that an Irish Language Act would cost millions.That being the case I would oppose it,it is not needed and the cost is far too much just for something to annoy "themmuns"
An bhfuil Gaeilge agatsa a Antoin?
Ta! A small residual bit from my O Levels a long time ago.I'm all for promoting Irish and indeed all languages.I just don't see the point in expending millions on legislation when it's plainly not needed
Quote from: T Fearon on February 11, 2017, 09:57:41 PM
Ta! A small residual bit from my O Levels a long time ago.I'm all for promoting Irish and indeed all languages.I just don't see the point in expending millions on legislation when it's plainly not needed
Millions upon millions upon millions have been spent in the Republic on Irish but after 14 years education the majority of the people couldnt go in to the shop and ask for a bottle of milk in Irish.
Exactly.Anyone who wishes to learn any language should be given the opportunity to attend classes etc,but that's it.We don't need expensive legislation or every bloody document/road sign appearing in two or three different languages at huge cost to the public purse.
Quote from: T Fearon on February 12, 2017, 12:00:47 AM
Exactly.Anyone who wishes to learn any language should be given the opportunity to attend classes etc,but that's it.We don't need expensive legislation or every bloody document/road sign appearing in two or three different languages at huge cost to the public purse.
Why should your mates in the DUP be allowed suppress Irish culture in Ireland?
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 11, 2017, 11:09:07 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on February 11, 2017, 09:57:41 PM
Ta! A small residual bit from my O Levels a long time ago.I'm all for promoting Irish and indeed all languages.I just don't see the point in expending millions on legislation when it's plainly not needed
Millions upon millions upon millions have been spent in the Republic on Irish but after 14 years education the majority of the people couldnt go in to the shop and ask for a bottle of milk in Irish.
Bainne... it's bainne!!!
(https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder68/38223068.jpg)
In what way is refusing to waste millions on a needless Irish Language Act a suppression of Irish culture? Aren't Irish Language classes taking place in the heart of Protestant East Belfast unhindered?
Quote from: armaghniac on February 12, 2017, 01:26:51 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on February 12, 2017, 12:00:47 AM
Exactly.Anyone who wishes to learn any language should be given the opportunity to attend classes etc,but that's it.We don't need expensive legislation or every bloody document/road sign appearing in two or three different languages at huge cost to the public purse.
Why should your mates in the DUP be allowed suppress Irish culture in Ireland?
Hows your Irish? My children are all fluent and I attend classes for conversational Irish - with or without an Irish Language Act if you want to keep your cultural language alive there are lots of opportunities. I personally couldn't give two shits if not one sign was in Irish, but then I am not an insecure person.
Good piece by Suzanne Bremen in the paper today.She says most people here care about Health,Education,Employment and not about silly expensive diversions like an Irish Language Act.
Quote from: T Fearon on February 12, 2017, 12:34:53 PM
Good piece by Suzanne Bremen in the paper today.She says most people here care about Health,Education,Employment and not about silly expensive diversions like an Irish Language Act.
The DUP campaign is focused on identity issues rather than policy. Brexit is a case in point. Follow the Tories down the rabbit hole and f the consequences. How many times has Mrs Foster warned of the damnation if SF come first?
Quote from: No wides on February 12, 2017, 08:44:35 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 12, 2017, 01:26:51 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on February 12, 2017, 12:00:47 AM
Exactly.Anyone who wishes to learn any language should be given the opportunity to attend classes etc,but that's it.We don't need expensive legislation or every bloody document/road sign appearing in two or three different languages at huge cost to the public purse.
Why should your mates in the DUP be allowed suppress Irish culture in Ireland?
Hows your Irish? My children are all fluent and I attend classes for conversational Irish - with or without an Irish Language Act if you want to keep your cultural language alive there are lots of opportunities. I personally couldn't give two shits if not one sign was in Irish, but then I am not an insecure person.
Quote from: T Fearon on February 12, 2017, 12:34:53 PM
Good piece by Suzanne Bremen in the paper today.She says most people here care about Health,Education,Employment and not about silly expensive diversions like an Irish Language Act.
I care about health education and employment as well. Cultural protection also can benefit these areas either directly or indirectly. Cultural protection costs money, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a waste of money. Gaelscoileanna and many Irish Classes etc are subsidised. I also would have reservations on the usefulness and appropriateness of translated street names and official documentation, and I'm no expert in the best way to protect and promote culture, but I feel very strongly that we should protect positive culture , following best evidence of success. It's seems to me that Wales have effectively maintained and even strengthened their language, perhaps we could learn from them?
I agree that it's unfortunate that the Irish language issue has distracted from more pressing concerns but it's the lack of recognition , respect and even the ridiculing of Irish culture that is a manifestation of a deeper problem whereby even 50 years after the civil rights movement some unionists are still either disinterested or antagonistic to anything Irish. That's "the elephant in the room" and it will remain so until it is called out as unacceptable, not only by unionist leaders but also by those among the so-called nationalist community who are happy to allow that mindset to go unchallenged.
Quote from: T Fearon on February 12, 2017, 12:34:53 PM
Good piece by Suzanne Bremen in the paper today.She says most people here care about Health,Education,Employment and not about silly expensive diversions like an Irish Language Act.
It's a fraction of the expense of orange marches, fleg protests and bonfire grants. More than half the population in the North don't care for those things, but they still go on.
If they banned Irish altogether it would probably flourish
At the Armagh v Laois game today the announcer made a big deal about the announcements being in English and Irish and how this was to promote the Irish language and to treat English speakers and Irish speakers with equality and respect. Was this in response to Arlene?
Announcer did himself no favours as the next announcement was in English only and the one after that was in Irish only
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 11, 2017, 11:09:07 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on February 11, 2017, 09:57:41 PM
Ta! A small residual bit from my O Levels a long time ago.I'm all for promoting Irish and indeed all languages.I just don't see the point in expending millions on legislation when it's plainly not needed
Millions upon millions upon millions have been spent in the Republic on Irish but after 14 years education the majority of the people couldnt go in to the shop and ask for a bottle of milk in Irish.
Galway makes millions and millions from the language
According to the TUV on Nolan it is merely a hobby language !!
Quote from: T Fearon on February 12, 2017, 12:00:47 AM
Exactly.Anyone who wishes to learn any language should be given the opportunity to attend classes etc,but that's it.We don't need expensive legislation or every bloody document/road sign appearing in two or three different languages at huge cost to the public purse.
We don't need museums either. We can easily store that old stuff in a warehouse or have it destroyed. Why anyone would want to preserve a linen mill is beyond me.
'The Arts' is another one. If ye want to write a piece of music go to x-factor, the private sector is well able to promote the arts without the state spending a penny on it.
Quote from: LCohen on February 12, 2017, 10:44:20 PM
At the Armagh v Laois game today the announcer made a big deal about the announcements being in English and Irish and how this was to promote the Irish language and to treat English speakers and Irish speakers with equality and respect. Was this in response to Arlene?
Announcer did himself no favours as the next announcement was in English only and the one after that was in Irish only
Announcer in Athletic Grounds loves to hear himself.
Listening to some of the discussion about this, I wonder would there be a half-way house on this?
Putting Irish as an official language and all that goes with that (right to courts through irish, all government publications in Irish etc.) is definitely expensive and aimed at a very small minority in a practical sense.
Maybe funding towards language development and a formal recognition in law that Irish is part of Northern Ireland's history and identity would reflect the important of Irish to so many people?
/Jim.
Quote from: AQMP on February 16, 2017, 09:34:44 AM
Underneath the shouting O'Dowd made a good point on Nolan last night when he asked Peter Weir, if the ILA cost £1 mill a year would the DUP support it. Weir said no. It's not about the cost.
It's about vote banks and power.
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on February 16, 2017, 09:59:28 AM
Listening to some of the discussion about this, I wonder would there be a half-way house on this?
Putting Irish as an official language and all that goes with that (right to courts through irish, all government publications in Irish etc.) is definitely expensive and aimed at a very small minority in a practical sense.
Maybe funding towards language development and a formal recognition in law that Irish is part of Northern Ireland's history and identity would reflect the important of Irish to so many people?
/Jim.
If you know you will have to give concessions in a negotiation you start of by demanding everything. Then the concessions are not so bad.
Quote from: vallankumous on February 16, 2017, 11:54:57 AM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on February 16, 2017, 09:59:28 AM
Listening to some of the discussion about this, I wonder would there be a half-way house on this?
Putting Irish as an official language and all that goes with that (right to courts through irish, all government publications in Irish etc.) is definitely expensive and aimed at a very small minority in a practical sense.
Maybe funding towards language development and a formal recognition in law that Irish is part of Northern Ireland's history and identity would reflect the important of Irish to so many people?
/Jim.
I guess my question was not to Shinner negotiators as much as to board members from the North.
Regardless of opening positions you could go for a position where:
1) You get Irish formally recognised in a Bill, ensuring that DUP'ers have to acknowledge that the Irish language and culture is part of official Northern Ireland identity/culture. It would also serve to flush out those in DUP that can't actually accept that by removing the issues associated with putting Irish on a part with English
2) The Bill would state that to reflect this recognition the Stormont Government would fund Irish classes in state schools, Irish language events etc...
So my question is, regardless of opening gambits, would these be an honourable/successful outcome for nationalists?
/Jim.
If you know you will have to give concessions in a negotiation you start of by demanding everything. Then the concessions are not so bad.
So in other words call the Act a Bill?
Quote from: general_lee on February 16, 2017, 01:32:38 PM
So in other words call the Act a Bill?
Call it what you want. However Arlene and her gang are representing the Act as putting Irish on a par with English in all aspects. This will have a massive cost.
What I am trying to understand if that is a negotiating position or if anyone has scoped out an Act?
Has anything gone before the Assembly? Has there been "Heads" of the Act published?
At the moment it seems that DUP can represent this Irish Language Act as anything they want. So they paint a very expensive bogeyman. However, if someone was to outline what the Act contained and if it was something more modest, then finance becomes less an issue.
Then any bigotry would be truly exposed.
/Jim.
I may be wrong but I thought the act was basically going to be a cut and paste job of the Welsh Language Act 1993?
Brief overview https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Language_Act_1993
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on February 16, 2017, 02:15:25 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 16, 2017, 01:32:38 PM
So in other words call the Act a Bill?
Call it what you want. However Arlene and her gang are representing the Act as putting Irish on a par with English in all aspects. This will have a massive cost.
What I am trying to understand if that is a negotiating position or if anyone has scoped out an Act?
Has anything gone before the Assembly? Has there been "Heads" of the Act published?
At the moment it seems that DUP can represent this Irish Language Act as anything they want. So they paint a very expensive bogeyman. However, if someone was to outline what the Act contained and if it was something more modest, then finance becomes less an issue.
Then any bigotry would be truly exposed.
/Jim.
How exposed does DUP bigotry need to be ?
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on February 16, 2017, 02:46:14 PM
I may be wrong but I thought the act was basically going to be a cut and paste job of the Welsh Language Act 1993?
Brief overview https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Language_Act_1993
As we have seen with cut and paste with the RHI scheme, important pieces get left out and cause issues at a later stage.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland-assembly-election/dups-foster-right-to-resist-irish-language-act-says-gaelic-academic-o-coigligh-35477865.html
There you go,Ciaran says No,or should that be nil?
Quote from: T Fearon on February 25, 2017, 07:16:09 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland-assembly-election/dups-foster-right-to-resist-irish-language-act-says-gaelic-academic-o-coigligh-35477865.html
There you go,Ciaran says No,or should that be nil?
I wonder what hie views on RHI are.
Quote from: AQMP on February 16, 2017, 09:34:44 AM
Underneath the shouting O'Dowd made a good point on Nolan last night when he asked Peter Weir, if the ILA cost £1 mill a year would the DUP support it. Weir said no. It's not about the cost.
Edit: O'Dowd actually said "Can Peter tell me would he support an ILA if it were reasonably priced?" Weir said "No"
The Irish language act is just one of many ways the DUP have gone about alienating Irish culture in general, add in the "community halls" grants and what they tried to do locally in the Ards peninsula by trying to force
through a cross community sports project by deliberately ignoring the three local GAA clubs to build a full size soccer pitch in Portavogie, totally unsuitable for Gaelic games irrespective of the location.
Arlene has taken the DUP down a very hard line approach to Irish culture that even Paisley and Peter didn't.
Quote from: T Fearon on February 25, 2017, 07:16:09 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland-assembly-election/dups-foster-right-to-resist-irish-language-act-says-gaelic-academic-o-coigligh-35477865.html
There you go,Ciaran says No,or should that be nil?
What is the background to this guy? He sounds like another Conor Cruise O'Brien or a male version of Ruth Dudley Edwards.
There is something fascinating about DUP opposition to Gaeilge. The language is a repository of a people's experience going back thousands of years. DUP and wider Unionist thinking are more like a form of Groupthink which is psychological rather than real. It's like reality vs fakery
Quote from: Orior on February 25, 2017, 12:23:20 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on February 25, 2017, 07:16:09 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland-assembly-election/dups-foster-right-to-resist-irish-language-act-says-gaelic-academic-o-coigligh-35477865.html
There you go,Ciaran says No,or should that be nil?
What is the background to this guy? He sounds like another Conor Cruise O'Brien or a male version of Ruth Dudley Edwards.
The constanst referrals to his faith seem to define him.
Seafoid.In 2011 I was present at a lunch in Portadown hosted for visitors from Ballina,which is twinned with Craigavon.Away from the cameras the DUP Mayor greeted the visitors in Irish,no problem.
If both sides would stop using the Irish language as a political football if would be of enormous help
Quote from: T Fearon on February 25, 2017, 05:24:35 PM
Seafoid.In 2011 I was present at a lunch in Portadown hosted for visitors from Ballina,which is twinned with Craigavon.Away from the cameras the DUP Mayor greeted the visitors in Irish,no problem.
No doubt, just as if they might speak in French if twinned with a town there. But they do not admit the people of Lurgan or Markethill the same courtesy,
QuoteIf both sides would stop using the Irish language as a political football if would be of enormous help
This is no doubt true, but are they likely to stop?
Quote from: T Fearon on February 25, 2017, 05:24:35 PM
Seafoid.In 2011 I was present at a lunch in Portadown hosted for visitors from Ballina,which is twinned with Craigavon.Away from the cameras the DUP Mayor greeted the visitors in Irish,no problem.
If both sides would stop using the Irish language as a political football if would be of enormous help
Even the Queen said something in Irish, Tony
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKz-6vn_i00
Irish language classes take place in Protestant East Belfast ran by a protestant,that is proof there is no vendetta per se by Unionists.It is senseless to spend millions on an Irish Language Act when it is not required,this is the sort of crap distraction politics that both SF and DUP use so effectively to disguise their lack of delivery on real issues.
If a free state Professor of Irish says an Irish Act is not required in the North then that should be noted.
I might be talkin shite but if there is an irish language act would mean that it can be offered as a GCSE subject in the schools instead of French etc.
Quote from: Hereiam on February 25, 2017, 10:28:58 PM
I might be talkin shite but if there is an irish language act would mean that it can be offered as a GCSE subject in the schools instead of French etc.
Like now?
Quote from: Hereiam on February 25, 2017, 10:28:58 PM
I might be talkin shite but if there is an irish language act would mean that it can be offered as a GCSE subject in the schools instead of French etc.
Irish has and always had equal status in the N.Ireland curriculum with any other modern European language. In fact, it has been possible for some time to take the GSCE in Irish Literature for those children whose skills in Irish exceeded GCSE Irish.
Irish has never been discriminated against by any curricular regulations. Irish in many schools has been rejected by parents and pupils where it has been offered as an alternative to any other modern European language. In some schools the numbers taking Irish has dwindled to class sizes that are no longer economically viable and the numbers taking Irish for A level has been reduced to zero in schools where it had been. The reasons for the decline of Irish are many but it is strange where the interest in the language outside schools and through IM schools has never been greater. It has to be said that when all languages are offered in a non-compulsory manner from Year 11 onwards then there has been a serious decline in the numbers taking all of them.
Having an Irish Act will not impinge on schools.
Thanks wasn't sure what way things were
It really is time for intelligent people to ignore distraction politics and vote for people and parties who will deliver for all the people up here
Deliver what?
Jobs,a decent health service,Education,judicious use of public money etc.
https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/armagh-irish-speaking-community-left-devastated-as/ is it just me or it is anything Irish language related that is the first to be culled?
Quote from: BenDover on April 24, 2017, 04:29:19 PM
https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/armagh-irish-speaking-community-left-devastated-as/ is it just me or it is anything Irish language related that is the first to be culled?
Its probably just you
Snarlene tweeted congratulations to Harry and Megan (sic). Some hilarious replies on twitter.
https://twitter.com/DUPleader/status/935091249685688321 (https://twitter.com/DUPleader/status/935091249685688321)
Quote from: BenDover on April 24, 2017, 04:29:19 PM
https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/armagh-irish-speaking-community-left-devastated-as/ is it just me or it is anything Irish language related that is the first to be culled?
Who/what is the funding organisation that has rejected the application from Campa Mhacha?
This article in the Armagh Gazette also fails to say which organisation rejected the funding application. Strange.
http://www.ulstergazette.co.uk/articles/news/58239/fury-over-threat-to-irish-language-summer-camp/ (http://www.ulstergazette.co.uk/articles/news/58239/fury-over-threat-to-irish-language-summer-camp/)
It appears that the blame is being placed on Royal Mail for delaying the delivery of the application.
I don't have the link unfortunately but it was interesting to see people absolutely lose their sh*t at the PSNI Down facebook page for daring to do a post as gaeilge following their visit to a bunscoil in Downpatrick. It's sad that people actually feel threatened by a language.
Quote from: T Fearon on February 26, 2017, 02:26:11 PM
Jobs,a decent health service,Education,judicious use of public money etc.
And name me this supposed party?
Quote from: lurganblue on November 27, 2017, 02:31:19 PM
I don't have the link unfortunately but it was interesting to see people absolutely lose their sh*t at the PSNI Down facebook page for daring to do a post as gaeilge following their visit to a bunscoil in Downpatrick. It's sad that people actually feel threatened by a language.
the post in question
https://www.facebook.com/PSNI.Down/photos/a.186809304780193.37849.186683431459447/1347944385333340/?type=3&theater
Wouldn't pay any heed to those posts, you get them on virtually every Irish News, Bel Tel and Belfast Live news story on Facebook. More and more people are becoming "proficient" with social media, and feel the need to spout their bigoted idiocy for the world to see. I browsed the comments on that PSNI post for about 30 seconds, the people complaining tend to be either retired/unemployed, Loyalist or Unionist and semi-literate - all the telltale signs of a moron with nothing better to do with their time. One guy was confused as to why there was no post in Ulster Scots...
Quote from: Orior on November 27, 2017, 11:26:13 AM
Snarlene tweeted congratulations to Harry and Megan (sic). Some hilarious replies on twitter.
https://twitter.com/DUPleader/status/935091249685688321 (https://twitter.com/DUPleader/status/935091249685688321)
She blamed it on one of her skivys - can't take responsibility for anything!