Would you be in favour of a second tier?

[t_mac]

The sad thing is that people are already losing interest. I used love attending knockout AI Quarter Finals in Croke Park  but couldn't be bothered going to round robin games as a neutral.

Yeah it's becoming farcical, it's like anything now in life all about legacy.  Horan wants to make a name for himself, Dublin are 100% for the All-Ireland for the foreseeable future, this isn't about giving the smaller counties something to play for, this is side lining them so the hierarchy of the GAA don't have to address the major differences between the elite and the up and coming, sure all's good in Antrim / Derry (any second tier team) they got to the Semi of the second ballbag competition!

[BennyCake]

The sad thing is that people are already losing interest. I used love attending knockout AI Quarter Finals in Croke Park  but couldn't be bothered going to round robin games as a neutral.

Yeah it's becoming farcical, it's like anything now in life all about legacy.  Horan wants to make a name for himself, Dublin are 100% for the All-Ireland for the foreseeable future, this isn't about giving the smaller counties something to play for, this is side lining them so the hierarchy of the GAA don't have to address the major differences between the elite and the up and coming, sure all's good in Antrim / Derry (any second tier team) they got to the Semi of the second ballbag competition!

Yes, about 10-12 tier 2 teams will never make any headway now. 3/4 might go up to tier 1, but they'll be praised for "getting up off their arse" even though they'll yo-yo from 1 to 2. So effectively, the GAA won't be funding those lower 12-15 teams as "that's just their level"

Most of the top 12 are capable of having at least one good year, and have done this last 20 years (getting to an AI SF or F), eg. Kildare, Monaghan, Meath, Down, Cavan, Derry, Armagh, Fermanagh etc. Some could maybe do again, but they haven't a hope of competing properly. And if they want to win Sam, they need to "get up off their arse"... nothing to do with unfair advantages with funding, like!

[magpie seanie]

Honestly don't understand the outcry at the introduction of a tier 2 competition. I can only think it's a lack of understanding of the proposal. When this poll was opened up I voted "undecided". After considering the actual proposals when they arrived I was in favour. And here's why:

1. Every county is still in the Tier 1 championship at the start of the year. If you make your provincial final, you continue on the road for Sam Maguire. Fermanagh and Laois were part of this "elite" group last year (2018). Clare/Tipp or Waterford will be in 2020.
2. Current Division 3 counties can get promoted next spring and "avoid" the tier 2 competition. The "reward" if they fail to win their province is a qualifier in a competition simply they cannot win.
3. The priority for any Division 4 county aiming to progress MUST be getting promoted out of Division 4. Why is it better for them to get a qualifier in a competition they cannot win than a game (or 2 or 3) in a championship they could do well in? I don't see that logic.
4. The winner of this competition is guaranteed to be in the Tier 1 championship the following season. A good incentive and opportunity to build on their success.

So the pathways to advance are there on several fronts. There's no reason why couties should be cut adrift forever. Here are the current Division 3 and 4 counties with their last provincial final appearance in brackets: Cork (2019), Derry (2011), Down (2017), Leitrim (2000), Longford (1968), Louth (2010), Offaly (2006), Tipperary (2016).  Antrim (2009), Carlow (1944), Limerick (2010), London (2013) , Sligo (2015), Waterford (1960), Wexford (2011), Wicklow (1897). 12 of the 16 have made a provincial final since the turn of the millenium. Several have been in Division 2 and higher in recent times.

I would share concerns about promotion etc but what coverage do these counties get in their current qualifier games, unless they draw a big gun?

[Bord na Mona man]

The sad thing is that people are already losing interest. I used love attending knockout AI Quarter Finals in Croke Park  but couldn't be bothered going to round robin games as a neutral.

Yeah it's becoming farcical, it's like anything now in life all about legacy.  Horan wants to make a name for himself, Dublin are 100% for the All-Ireland for the foreseeable future, this isn't about giving the smaller counties something to play for, this is side lining them so the hierarchy of the GAA don't have to address the major differences between the elite and the up and coming, sure all's good in Antrim / Derry (any second tier team) they got to the Semi of the second ballbag competition!

I agree. People claim that the tiers 'work well' in hurling - although with the little coverage and little interest they get, I'm not sure what the success criteria is.
But the tiers help hide the massive gap there is between top and bottom. Counties with no interest in promoting the game can hide in plain site, GAA hq also escape any heat for not investing in the game where it is weakest.

[Rossfan]

For better or worse this new "Tier" has been voted in by 3 to 1 majority.
So get on with it.
Counties that will be in it will be there on "merit" and up to them to prove they shouldn't be by either
Getting to D2
Reaching Provincial Final
Winning Tier 2.

Of course the GAA should have held off till the Review Committee completed their business.
They shouldn't have introduced it in year 3 of the 3 year "Super 8" system.
They should gave made it 4 groups of 4 as the old problem of teams getting 2 Summer games and over 6 months to their next competitive game remains.
How can they ever improve their standing in that scenario?

[Esmarelda]

Honestly don't understand the outcry at the introduction of a tier 2 competition. I can only think it's a lack of understanding of the proposal. When this poll was opened up I voted "undecided". After considering the actual proposals when they arrived I was in favour. And here's why:

1. Every county is still in the Tier 1 championship at the start of the year. If you make your provincial final, you continue on the road for Sam Maguire. Fermanagh and Laois were part of this "elite" group last year (2018). Clare/Tipp or Waterford will be in 2020.
2. Current Division 3 counties can get promoted next spring and "avoid" the tier 2 competition. The "reward" if they fail to win their province is a qualifier in a competition simply they cannot win.
3. The priority for any Division 4 county aiming to progress MUST be getting promoted out of Division 4. Why is it better for them to get a qualifier in a competition they cannot win than a game (or 2 or 3) in a championship they could do well in? I don't see that logic.
4. The winner of this competition is guaranteed to be in the Tier 1 championship the following season. A good incentive and opportunity to build on their success.

So the pathways to advance are there on several fronts. There's no reason why couties should be cut adrift forever. Here are the current Division 3 and 4 counties with their last provincial final appearance in brackets: Cork (2019), Derry (2011), Down (2017), Leitrim (2000), Longford (1968), Louth (2010), Offaly (2006), Tipperary (2016).  Antrim (2009), Carlow (1944), Limerick (2010), London (2013) , Sligo (2015), Waterford (1960), Wexford (2011), Wicklow (1897). 12 of the 16 have made a provincial final since the turn of the millenium. Several have been in Division 2 and higher in recent times.

I would share concerns about promotion etc but what coverage do these counties get in their current qualifier games, unless they draw a big gun?

Seanie, what issues do the introduction of the Tier 2 competition address and improve? Who benefits from this and in what way?

[joemamas]

I was in favor of it.

However, The GAA have to play it before the senior A final in Croke Park. No Bullshit excuses, otherwise it is DOA.
Give me that V an U17 game.

In addition, as I mentioned previously, the Divison 3 and 4 counties need to get huge funding for " COACHING" (there are too many clowns involved just to think that giving them money will solve anything), it should be a case of here are twenty coaches fore your schools/clubs , use them or lose them. 
Then the respective county boards cannot come back in five years and say, we weren't treated fairly.
simplistic but I think a start.

[t_mac]

For better or worse this new "Tier" has been voted in by 3 to 1 majority.
So get on with it.
Counties that will be in it will be there on "merit" and up to them to prove they shouldn't be by either
Getting to D2
Reaching Provincial Final
Winning Tier 2.

Of course the GAA should have held off till the Review Committee completed their business.
They shouldn't have introduced it in year 3 of the 3 year "Super 8" system.
They should gave made it 4 groups of 4 as the old problem of teams getting 2 Summer games and over 6 months to their next competitive game remains.
How can they ever improve their standing in that scenario?

Hell of a statement, if everyone just got on with crap legislation / rules we would live in some kip.

[BennyCake]

For better or worse this new "Tier" has been voted in by 3 to 1 majority.
So get on with it.
Counties that will be in it will be there on "merit" and up to them to prove they shouldn't be by either
Getting to D2
Reaching Provincial Final
Winning Tier 2.

Of course the GAA should have held off till the Review Committee completed their business.
They shouldn't have introduced it in year 3 of the 3 year "Super 8" system.
They should gave made it 4 groups of 4 as the old problem of teams getting 2 Summer games and over 6 months to their next competitive game remains.
How can they ever improve their standing in that scenario?

Hell of a statement, if everyone just got on with crap legislation / rules we would live in some kip.

It's funny you say that on today of all days.

[Maiden1]

I was in favor of it.

However, The GAA have to play it before the senior A final in Croke Park. No Bullshit excuses, otherwise it is DOA.
Give me that V an U17 game.

In addition, as I mentioned previously, the Divison 3 and 4 counties need to get huge funding for " COACHING" (there are too many clowns involved just to think that giving them money will solve anything), it should be a case of here are twenty coaches fore your schools/clubs , use them or lose them. 
Then the respective county boards cannot come back in five years and say, we weren't treated fairly.
simplistic but I think a start.

There are 32 teams across 4 divisions so there will always be 'failing' teams.  It is a zero sum game.   To fix the failing teams by giving them extra coaching they would get promoted which would create new failing teams..

[five points]

However, The GAA have to play it before the senior A final in Croke Park. No Bullshit excuses, otherwise it is DOA.

There is not a snowball's chance in hell of that happening.

[t_mac]

However, The GAA have to play it before the senior A final in Croke Park. No Bullshit excuses, otherwise it is DOA.

There is not a snowball's chance in hell of that happening.

Agree, it will be played on a Saturday evening out in the sticks with no coverage whatsoever - bet all the players can't wait.

[BennyCake]

However, The GAA have to play it before the senior A final in Croke Park. No Bullshit excuses, otherwise it is DOA.

There is not a snowball's chance in hell of that happening.

Agree, it will be played on a Saturday evening out in the sticks with no coverage whatsoever - bet all the players can't wait.

What's left of them, after the majority piss off to the States or just drop out.

[shark]

However, The GAA have to play it before the senior A final in Croke Park. No Bullshit excuses, otherwise it is DOA.

There is not a snowball's chance in hell of that happening.

Agree, it will be played on a Saturday evening out in the sticks with no coverage whatsoever - bet all the players can't wait.

In the first year of the Christy Ring Cup, the final (Westmeath v Down) was played before all-Ireland semi between Cork and Clare. It never happened again however.

The lure of the US won't be the only problem for tier 2 counties. There will be cases of clubs encouraging their county players to step away after the provincial championship to focus on club championship prep. It happens already, and will only become more frequent.

[Ball Hopper]

Can a county board decide not to enter a team into this tier 2 if they so choose?