Huns in trouble after song mocking the famine

[Tankie]

its British soccer scumbags, the embassy was worse to act on the complaint from the other british soccer fan!

What utter nonsense.
The Irish Embassy is well within it's juristiction to act on any complaint on perceived racial bigotry against the Irish.
It does not matter if its a dual national or a British national who highlights the incident to the Embassy.
The Embassy has a duty towards Irish Nationals/Irish community in Britain.

You really haven't got a clue

So you'd support the British embassy complaining about Irish soccer supporters singing stand up if you hate the Queen?

or the classic ones sang at Derry fans "whats it like to have a queen?" and "you jack bast*ards"

[Evil Genius]

the song is unacceptable.

Many Irish people follow celtic, and I think they have every right to complain about this.

Agree the song is unacceptable (disgraceful, in fact), but how is complaining about it to Rangers going to solve anything? All that will do is to cause "offended" British fans of Rangers to complain to Celtic every time e.g. the Celts sing IRA songs etc.

In the end, Rangers fans sing songs to wind up Celtic fans and Celtic fans do the same in return. An Irish Diplomat lodging an Official complaint isn't going to change that, either way.

In truth, the only way it will change is when sufficient numbers of decent fans complain long and loud about offensive behaviour by obnoxious fans of their own club, not the other lot. And even then, they will require the active support of the people who own and run the clubs in backing them up.

And on that latter count, although I'm sure there are decent people within the corridors of power both at Ibrox and Parkhead, I don't see any real evidence that they are sufficiently influential to force each club to clean up its own act.

In the end, whilst each club considers itself sincere enough in opposing bigotry and sectarianism etc, each is also sub-consciously aware that that self-same bigotry acts as a powerful attraction to a significant section of their support; I'm not sure that either club is willing to take the actions necessary to drive the bigots right out, for fear that it might result in a net loss of support.

"If you want to go to Heaven when you die
You should wear a Partick Thistle shirt and tie.
And a Partick Thistle bonnet,
With 'Fcuk the Old Firm' on it,
If you want to go to Heaven when you die!"

[Main Street]

On the contrary the complaint from the Irish Embassy has received fulsome publicity and has brought it out into the public domain where it has been noticed and is being debated.

[J70]

Rangers fans singing a song about the famine has caused the diplomats to get involved?

I hope they were laughed out of the Scottish Assembly.

[Evil Genius]

On the contrary the complaint from the Irish Embassy has received fulsome publicity and has brought it out into the public domain where it has been noticed and is being debated.

Publicised, noticed, debated and......        guaranteed to be sung ever louder by the Rangers fans the next time they play Celtic, since they (Rangers fans) know they've struck a nerve.

Like the small-minded individual in Strabane who complained about the Tyrone GAA flag, perhaps this might make the original complainant in this case feel better; indeed it might even allow the Celtic fans to indulge in a feeling of moral superiority over their rivals (at least until they launch their next chorus of "Ooh Ahh, Up the 'Ra"). But does anyone seriously believe it will make the slightest bit difference to how Rangers fans feel towards Celtic fans (or vice versa)?

And even if this particular song should somehow magically be suppressed - in the stadium, at least - what will the Diplomat's complaint do to stop all the other offensive songs which get sung by Rangers fans? And would any voluntary self-censorship by Rangers fans cause Celtic fans to reciprocate, i.e. by ceasing to sing some of their own equivalent ditties?

The simple fact is, that regardless of how objectionable the lyrics (and singers) may be, they almost certainly don't break any law in themselves. And I don't see the Strathclyde Police in any hurry to dive into a crowd of 40,000+ Rangers fans to make arrests for behaviour liable to cause a Breach of the Peace anytime soon, either.

Pointless, gesture politics - I'd have thought the Irish Consulate had better things with which to occupy their time.

[stew]

disgusting song, just as bad as when some celtic fans sang at them '6 million jews and it should've been protestants' a few years back. i cringed for us then...i cringe for them now

i also cringe when i hear fellow celts disgrace the name of our club by singing pro ira songs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOwqWQS8oRY&feature=related

the bigotted scum on both sides deserve each other

They do indeed.

[Baile an tuaigh]

Just while were on the subject of Soccer I was flicking through the channels just the other night. Came across highlights of a N. Ireland Soccer game on Setanta. Now I have to admit that I haven't seen the six County team play in quite a few years. Probably the last time I seen them was that infamous night when they tied 1-1 with the 26 County team in the qualifiers.

However, I decided to watch it for the craic, just to see if much had changed in 13 odd years. But it was just the same old same old. More flags than people. British flags and English flags galore and big empty terraces. Now I thought a bout it for a while and I just wondered, why do they even bother playing in green? It is without doubt a very British occasion when these lads play. (which is OK with me) So why not play in blue jerseys or something at least it would match the Countries flag who they claim allegiance to. Just a thought thats all.

[KCGaelicFootball]

its British soccer scumbags, the embassy was worse to act on the complaint from the other british soccer fan!

What utter nonsense.
The Irish Embassy is well within it's juristiction to act on any complaint on perceived racial bigotry against the Irish.
It does not matter if its a dual national or a British national who highlights the incident to the Embassy.
The Embassy has a duty towards Irish Nationals/Irish community in Britain.

You really haven't got a clue

Hell the Irish embassy still has over 800 years of racial bigotry to still work through.

[Main Street]

On the contrary the complaint from the Irish Embassy has received fulsome publicity and has brought it out into the public domain where it has been noticed and is being debated.

Publicised, noticed, debated and......        guaranteed to be sung ever louder by the Rangers fans the next time they play Celtic, since they (Rangers fans) know they've struck a nerve.

Like the small-minded individual in Strabane who complained about the Tyrone GAA flag, perhaps this might make the original complainant in this case feel better; indeed it might even allow the Celtic fans to indulge in a feeling of moral superiority over their rivals (at least until they launch their next chorus of "Ooh Ahh, Up the 'Ra"). But does anyone seriously believe it will make the slightest bit difference to how Rangers fans feel towards Celtic fans (or vice versa)?

And even if this particular song should somehow magically be suppressed - in the stadium, at least - what will the Diplomat's complaint do to stop all the other offensive songs which get sung by Rangers fans? And would any voluntary self-censorship by Rangers fans cause Celtic fans to reciprocate, i.e. by ceasing to sing some of their own equivalent ditties?

The simple fact is, that regardless of how objectionable the lyrics (and singers) may be, they almost certainly don't break any law in themselves. And I don't see the Strathclyde Police in any hurry to dive into a crowd of 40,000+ Rangers fans to make arrests for behaviour liable to cause a Breach of the Peace anytime soon, either.

Pointless, gesture politics - I'd have thought the Irish Consulate had better things with which to occupy their time.

To be cynical and the whataboutery is your privilage.
In this case, your cynicism stinks and your whataboutery, as you slither and slide around a debate, is predictable.
The Irish Embassy is not concerned about the feelings that soccer fans have with each other.
Their action demonstrates that they are concerned with representing the generations of Irish community in Britain that have opinions about public stereotypical demonstrations of Racial bigotry against Irish people.

[stibhan]

The IRA didn't kill nearly 2 million people. They got nowhere f**king near it to be honest, and in the first place singing about the IRA isn't sectarian because a sizeable amount of Catholics and Republicans were killed by the IRA as opposed to the comparatively small amount of Protestants killed by the security forces and the UVF, although I'm not sure distinguishing between the two achieves anything given the osmosis-like movement between the latter two. That isn't to justify or glorify anything that the PIRA did, because some of their actions were f**king atrocious, but ask Jean McConville if the IRA's 'war' was just about killing prods and protecting taigs.

However, I apologise if I am getting away from the point. The song is just about as offensive as you can get, and in actual fact the majority of the IRA songs that Celtic sing apart from that one about Nacho Novo are pre-civil war era (if you'd like to argue the point I can give you a long explanation of each song), about as offensive as GSTQ or Rule which they have no hope of banning. For example I've never heard The fighting men of Crossmaglen being sung, and I've never heard Joe McDonnell or any provo-era songs anywhere near it. The add-ons such as "f**k the queen and the UDA" whilst hardly desirable come nowhere near the level of vileness that the famine song achieves.

A fantastic high and low in the history of the most vile football club ever to kick ball on the face of this earth.

[Evil Genius]

To be cynical

For believing that over 100 years of hatred and loathing between two sets of supporters will end following interventions such as that of an Irish diplomat? Maybe it is - though I'd say it's more realistic than cynical...

the whataboutery is your privilage.

Yet another person who uses a term he doesn't even understand...
"Whataboutery" is when someone defends something by asking "Whatabout themmuns? They're even worse".
I in no way defended this Rangers song - in fact I condemned it as "disgraceful" and "obnoxious" etc.
However, my main point was that Celtic fans complaining about the excesses of Rangers fans - whether directly or via a foreign diplomat - will not achieve any more than Rangers fans complaining about Celtic fans. If this sort of vile carry-on is to be ended, then reform must come from within and I see no evidence of this happening in a meaningful way at either club.
So instead of attacking me, as per usual, have you any comment to make upon the point I was making?

In this case, your cynicism stinks and your whataboutery, as you slither and slide around a debate, is predictable.

"Slither and slide around the debate"? Whether you agree with it or not, the point I made was perfectly cogent and pertinent. Your inability or unwillingness to address that point, preferring instead to launch another ad hominem attack on me, is what is predictable - and tiresomely so, at that.

The Irish Embassy is not concerned about the feelings that soccer fans have with each other.

So why is somebody from the Irish Embassy complaining about what one set of fans (Rangers) sang about another set of fans (Celtic)?  

Their action demonstrates that they are concerned with representing the generations of Irish community in Britain that have opinions about public stereotypical demonstrations of Racial bigotry against Irish people.

So Irish people get upset when (some) British people, wearing Rangers shirts, are nasty towards them. Hardly "Man Bites Dog", is it? Or does this mean that all those Irish people who go to Old Firm games are taken by surprise when they hear this sort of vile abuse from the opposition supporters? And don't have the opportunity to respond in kind? Or are Celtic fans prevented from singing e.g. vile songs about Nacho Novo by the forces of the Crown, whilst Rangers fans carry on with impunity?

P.S. Did the Israeli Embassy in Dublin protest when a tiny minority of the ROI supporters displayed equally vile behaviour towards their visitors before, during and after the ROI v Israel match in Dublin a while back? I think not. Then again, perhaps they had more productive things to be doing with their time...  

[Main Street]

To be cynical

For believing that over 100 years of hatred and loathing between two sets of supporters will end following interventions such as that of an Irish diplomat? Maybe it is - though I'd say it's more realistic than cynical...

the whataboutery is your privilage.

Yet another person who uses a term he doesn't even understand...
"Whataboutery" is when someone defends something by asking "Whatabout themmuns? They're even worse".
I in no way defended this Rangers song - in fact I condemned it as "disgraceful" and "obnoxious" etc.
However, my main point was that Celtic fans complaining about the excesses of Rangers fans - whether directly or via a foreign diplomat - will not achieve any more than Rangers fans complaining about Celtic fans. If this sort of vile carry-on is to be ended, then reform must come from within and I see no evidence of this happening in a meaningful way at either club.
So instead of attacking me, as per usual, have you any comment to make upon the point I was making?

In this case, your cynicism stinks and your whataboutery, as you slither and slide around a debate, is predictable.

"Slither and slide around the debate"? Whether you agree with it or not, the point I made was perfectly cogent and pertinent. Your inability or unwillingness to address that point, preferring instead to launch another ad hominem attack on me, is what is predictable - and tiresomely so, at that.

The Irish Embassy is not concerned about the feelings that soccer fans have with each other.

So why is somebody from the Irish Embassy complaining about what one set of fans (Rangers) sang about another set of fans (Celtic)?  

Their action demonstrates that they are concerned with representing the generations of Irish community in Britain that have opinions about public stereotypical demonstrations of Racial bigotry against Irish people.

So Irish people get upset when (some) British people, wearing Rangers shirts, are nasty towards them. Hardly "Man Bites Dog", is it? Or does this mean that all those Irish people who go to Old Firm games are taken by surprise when they hear this sort of vile abuse from the opposition supporters? And don't have the opportunity to respond in kind? Or are Celtic fans prevented from singing e.g. vile songs about Nacho Novo by the forces of the Crown, whilst Rangers fans carry on with impunity?

P.S. Did the Israeli Embassy in Dublin protest when a tiny minority of the ROI supporters displayed equally vile behaviour towards their visitors before, during and after the ROI v Israel match in Dublin a while back? I think not. Then again, perhaps they had more productive things to be doing with their time...  

There has been no personal abuse of you by me.
Slithering and sliding around the issue is my opinion on your debating technique,
not a personal attack or a personal opinion I have of you as a person.

When a poster chops up phrases in order to reply it is a sure sign of desperation and a píss poor discussion board debate technique
Words used in phrases are taken in the context of a phrase, a phrase taken in context of it's sentence.

Not Whataboutery then, but your usual what about them.

The Irish Embassy has expressed it's concern about the public demonstration
of this song, do you have a problem with that?
I have no problem with their public concern, the resulting positive publicity and debate.

'Now they raped and fondled their kids
That's what those perverts from the darkside did
And they swept it under the carpet
and Large John he hid
Their evils seeds have been sown
Cause they're not of our own
Well the famine is over
Why don't you go home?'
   

[Evil Genius]

Just while were on the subject of Soccer I was flicking through the channels just the other night. Came across highlights of a N. Ireland Soccer game on Setanta. Now I have to admit that I haven't seen the six County team play in quite a few years. Probably the last time I seen them was that infamous night when they tied 1-1 with the 26 County team in the qualifiers.

So you haven't actually seen anything of the team since a game many years ago. Indeed, you can't even remember how many years ago (1993 was 15 years back, not 13). In fact, you almost certainly weren't even at the original game in question. Yet still you feel qualified to comment on the changes - or lack of - since that time, all on the basis of a set of TV highlights of a recent game...

However, I decided to watch it for the craic, just to see if much had changed in 13 odd years. But it was just the same old same old. More flags than people. British flags and English flags galore and big empty terraces. Now I thought a bout it for a while and I just wondered, why do they even bother playing in green? It is without doubt a very British occasion when these lads play. (which is OK with me) So why not play in blue jerseys or something at least it would match the Countries flag who they claim allegiance to.

More flags than people, eh? Well, having been at the game myself, I can guarantee that the fans were not each carrying two or more flags, so that's total crap, for a start. As for the "British flags" (I assume you mean Union flags), as someone who has been attending NI matches in person for decades now, I can testify that only very few NI fans bring Union Flags to games now, certainly compared with, say, 15 years ago. In fact, these have been replaced by NI flags, or Green and White, or IFA flags etc, this being the NI team, after all. And the only time I've ever seen an England flag at an Ni game is when England are the opposition.
As for the empty terraces, it is years since FIFA banned standing on terraces at competitive international matches. And it is hardly the fault of the NI team or fans if Slovakia were unable to sell even a quarter of their seated capacity. They did, however, move the game to a bigger stadium, since it would easier accommodate the near 2,000 travelling fans which NI brought away with them - in itself a massive change from 15 years ago.
As for our wearing green jerseys, why on earth should we change something we have been doing for the best part of a century? Green is a colour traditionally associated with Ireland and all things Irish, and as a proudly Northern Irish team, this is why it is entirely appropriate for us to continue4 to wear our traditional emerald Green shirts, and with a Celtic Cross and Shamrock design for a badge, at that.
As for "matching our flag", Red and White might do that, but there is no blue in the NI flag. Were you watching in Black and White, by any chance?  The outdated technology would be apt for your outdated views, if you were
Anyhow, I look forward to you firing off an e-mail to the Italian team when they play in Dublin, reminding them that their famous "Azurri" shirts don't match any of the colours on their flag, either...

Just a thought thats all.

Possibly the most crass, ignorant and ill-informed post, cobbled together on the flimsiest of "evidence", I can recall reading since I first had access to the internet. 

[Evil Genius]

To be cynical

For believing that over 100 years of hatred and loathing between two sets of supporters will end following interventions such as that of an Irish diplomat? Maybe it is - though I'd say it's more realistic than cynical...

the whataboutery is your privilage.

Yet another person who uses a term he doesn't even understand...
"Whataboutery" is when someone defends something by asking "Whatabout themmuns? They're even worse".
I in no way defended this Rangers song - in fact I condemned it as "disgraceful" and "obnoxious" etc.
However, my main point was that Celtic fans complaining about the excesses of Rangers fans - whether directly or via a foreign diplomat - will not achieve any more than Rangers fans complaining about Celtic fans. If this sort of vile carry-on is to be ended, then reform must come from within and I see no evidence of this happening in a meaningful way at either club.
So instead of attacking me, as per usual, have you any comment to make upon the point I was making?

In this case, your cynicism stinks and your whataboutery, as you slither and slide around a debate, is predictable.

"Slither and slide around the debate"? Whether you agree with it or not, the point I made was perfectly cogent and pertinent. Your inability or unwillingness to address that point, preferring instead to launch another ad hominem attack on me, is what is predictable - and tiresomely so, at that.

The Irish Embassy is not concerned about the feelings that soccer fans have with each other.

So why is somebody from the Irish Embassy complaining about what one set of fans (Rangers) sang about another set of fans (Celtic)?  

Their action demonstrates that they are concerned with representing the generations of Irish community in Britain that have opinions about public stereotypical demonstrations of Racial bigotry against Irish people.

So Irish people get upset when (some) British people, wearing Rangers shirts, are nasty towards them. Hardly "Man Bites Dog", is it? Or does this mean that all those Irish people who go to Old Firm games are taken by surprise when they hear this sort of vile abuse from the opposition supporters? And don't have the opportunity to respond in kind? Or are Celtic fans prevented from singing e.g. vile songs about Nacho Novo by the forces of the Crown, whilst Rangers fans carry on with impunity?

P.S. Did the Israeli Embassy in Dublin protest when a tiny minority of the ROI supporters displayed equally vile behaviour towards their visitors before, during and after the ROI v Israel match in Dublin a while back? I think not. Then again, perhaps they had more productive things to be doing with their time...  

There has been no personal abuse of you by me.
Slithering and sliding around the issue is my opinion on your debating technique,
not a personal attack or a personal opinion I have of you as a person.

When a poster chops up phrases in order to reply it is a sure sign of desperation and a píss poor discussion board debate technique
Words used in phrases are taken in the context of a phrase, a phrase taken in context of it's sentence.

Not Whataboutery then, but your usual what about them.

The Irish Embassy has expressed it's concern about the public demonstration
of this song, do you have a problem with that?
I have no problem with their public concern, the resulting positive publicity and debate.

'Now they raped and fondled their kids
That's what those perverts from the darkside did
And they swept it under the carpet
and Large John he hid
Their evils seeds have been sown
Cause they're not of our own
Well the famine is over
Why don't you go home?'
   

Once again you fail entirely to respond to my main point, which was that one set of fans complainging about the other is not going to achieve a damned thing. If the Old Firm are to clean up their act, then it will only come about when each club looks at its own behaviour and attitudes and makes a concerted effort, at all levels, to kick out that element associated with their own club which perpetuates the disgraceful behaviour and antics of the kind highlighted in this instance.

Whether it is Rangers fans abusing Celtic fans or Celtic fans abusing Rangers fans makes no difference to me. But you can be pretty sure about one thing. Whichever Celtic fan complained about the Famine song will not complain to anyone when his fellow Celts abuse Rangers fans in turn, with some of their vile repertoire.

A plague on both their houses, I say.

P.S. Something you forget when having a go at me for apparently not having the "correct" opinion on this anti-Irish abuse by Rangers fans is that I am actually Irish myself. And if my ancestors might not have suffered starvation and emigration themselves during the Famine (and I've no idea, either way), I'm pretty damned sure they weren't living in big Castles and eating big feasts all day, either.

[stibhan]

Whether it is Rangers fans abusing Celtic fans or Celtic fans abusing Rangers fans makes no difference to me. But you can be pretty sure about one thing. Whichever Celtic fan complained about the Famine song will not complain to anyone when his fellow Celts abuse Rangers fans in turn, with some of their vile repertoire.

Can you please give me an example of Celtic fans singing songs that is comparable to this song? I've never heard any and I've been to more games than you have, home and away. I have heard songs about the Provisional IRA in bars, but never in the ground-- again I don't quite think singing about the IRA/Volunteers (many of whom are considered political/cultural demagogues in the republic) circa 1916-1920's is comparable to singing a song about what was essentially nigh-on Genocide in almost full unison at a match.