Author Topic: Job Salary Dispute  (Read 905 times)

Dahmer

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Job Salary Dispute
« on: October 18, 2018, 08:40:31 PM »
Looking genuine advice here folks.

When I started with my employer 10 years ago, it was considered standard practice that you would enter as a basic grade 1 and then you would progress up the grades if possible to a team manager which is a grade 5. Although there is a pay scale for each grade, there was absolutely no option to negotiate your salary. None. You can go to the mid point of a scale but never could you actually get to the higher end. There was the option to transfer to other departments if a role came up and you were successful but the pay scales were all the same across the company. I enjoy my department and the people so I've never looked elsewhere.

A rough breakdown of grade pay scales is:
Grade 1 £16000 - £24000
Grade 2 £18000 - £25000
Grade 3 £20000 - £26500
Grade 4 £21000 - £28000
Grade 5 £23000 - £33000

The grading scale goes right up to grade 12 (big bucks). Doesn't interest me.

There are 12 teams of varying sizes. I manage a team of 20. The issue is that it has been discovered that new employees that have started within the past year have been able to negotiate a starting salary of up to approx £23k in some cases. The new employees have told existing employees and have shown them their contracts and payslips as proof (not maliciously might I add). I've seen these myself and it's a disgrace.

I know my work inside and out and I interviewed a few of these people and some of them barely passed the interview. Some are 19 or 20 years old and this is their first ever job so have nothing to warrant this kind of salary over myself or other long term colleagues. The issue appears to arise after the interview stage when HR agree negotiable contracts with the interviewees. This means that a grade 1 starting at £23000 is earning approx £1000 less than me yearly and I am grade 5.

This has been highlighted to my managers and their managers who have repeatedly denied any such knowledge of it (even though we know for a fact this is not the case). When HR were contacted we've been told where to go, when the Union has been contacted they've given us advice but stated our hands are tied as we are tied to our current contracts which I understand.

We have been told under no circumstances are existing staff able to negotiate their salary. As a point, a colleague handed in their notice, reapplied and was successful and was able to negotiate their salary and earn an additional £6000 on their old salary. It's farcical and made a complete laughing stock of the whole situation. The colleague that reapplied has been made to sign a non-disclosure form so they cannot advise of their new wage which has only been introduced the past month apparently so they are definitely trying to cover this up.

Really at my wit's end here and the thing is I actually love my job, I think all staff should be treated equal but it's certainly not happening here. I really can't be arsed with the hassle of all this leaving and reapplying. Is it something that needs to be taken to a higher level? E.g Equality Commission.

I appreciate I am being very vague in my job but I can't give to much away I hope you'll understand. Has anyone any guidance or advice for us in this situation? PM any info to me also.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 08:44:40 PM by Dahmer »

Eamonnca1

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Re: Job Salary Dispute
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2018, 09:29:43 PM »
If I were you I'd apply for a job elsewhere in another company, get an offer (that's hopefully better than what you're getting now), hand in your notice, and see if your current employers make a counter-offer.

The Iceman

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Re: Job Salary Dispute
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2018, 09:50:31 PM »
If I were you I'd apply for a job elsewhere in another company, get an offer (that's hopefully better than what you're getting now), hand in your notice, and see if your current employers make a counter-offer.
I think its career suicide to hand in your notice and then accept a counter offer?
Your employers will keep you on, yes, but they'll know you're not happy or loyal and have now just bought themselves some time to find your replacement?
As soon as they do then you're gone, on their terms, not your own...with no job to walk in to
I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight

hardstation

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Re: Job Salary Dispute
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2018, 09:52:19 PM »
You both in America?


snoopdog

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Re: Job Salary Dispute
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2018, 10:12:07 PM »
If I were you I'd apply for a job elsewhere in another company, get an offer (that's hopefully better than what you're getting now), hand in your notice, and see if your current employers make a counter-offer.
I think its career suicide to hand in your notice and then accept a counter offer?
Your employers will keep you on, yes, but they'll know you're not happy or loyal and have now just bought themselves some time to find your replacement?
As soon as they do then you're gone, on their terms, not your own...with no job to walk in to
Dont neccesarily agree with the above, i suppose it depends on the industry. Ive seen this happen a lot in the financial services in Dublin. Done it myself and was still in that company for another 8 years and was promoted a few times. I suppose it can work  .
Its a really tough decision for you yes you love your jib. But your within tour current level paygrade so the company dont really need to do anything. Always the fear too that they wont match an offer and call your bluff.
 

Itchy

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Re: Job Salary Dispute
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2018, 10:14:08 PM »
I would never offer a counter offer to an employee. I'd never accept one as an employee either.

screenexile

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Re: Job Salary Dispute
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2018, 11:10:50 PM »
I would never offer a counter offer to an employee. I'd never accept one as an employee either.

Depends on the industry/circumstances I did it once but handled it horribly and was lucky to stay on when that’s what I really wanted anyway.

In terms of the OP it sounds like your industry is one where you would have a few options to leave and get paid more but your pay bands would suggest that you wouldn’t have much luck with the equality commission.

Your employer holds all the cards on this one and unless you give them a good rattle it doesn’t look like they’ll budge.

Syferus

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Re: Job Salary Dispute
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2018, 11:18:14 PM »
If I were you I'd apply for a job elsewhere in another company, get an offer (that's hopefully better than what you're getting now), hand in your notice, and see if your current employers make a counter-offer.
I think its career suicide to hand in your notice and then accept a counter offer?
Your employers will keep you on, yes, but they'll know you're not happy or loyal and have now just bought themselves some time to find your replacement?
As soon as they do then you're gone, on their terms, not your own...with no job to walk in to

This is a genuinely insane outlook. Getting a better offer elsewhere and the place you’re currently at matching or bettering it is one of the most common tactics in any profession. You just make sure the job you get the offer from is one you’re happy to switch to if a counter offer is not forthcoming. This is business, not playtime.

The idea that someone is easily replaceable is not a valid one for most real professionals. The cost of replacement due to lost productivity usually exceeds the difference in salary many times over. Also there’s a thousand and one employment laws that prevent employers from firing someone in the manner you’re suggesting also.

Businesses don’t give a shït about your feelings and you would be monumentally stupid to worry about their supposed hurt feelings. Get the very best terms you can and remember that your job is just a job and not who you are.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 11:20:53 PM by Syferus »

Tony Baloney

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Re: Job Salary Dispute
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2018, 11:40:37 PM »
The company aren't obliged to pay you all the same salary and the only recourse you would have is if you didn't have equal pay based on gender etc. It doesn't sound like a discrimination case and this parity issue happens all the time and I have been on the receiving end myself when I started working. A group of us went to management and said we weren't happy training new starts who were earning more than us. To be fair they sorted it but were under no obligation to do so.

I would advise that you get a collective together of disgruntled colleagues and go to management as a group rather than you tackling them yourself as they'll be more likely to give an individual employee the brush off than a group of people. If there is a flight risk of a group then as Syferus says the cost, time and effort of potentially replacing multiple people might think it's worthwhile bumping your salary. I would try to reason with them before trying any strong arm tactics.

Eamonnca1

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Re: Job Salary Dispute
« Reply #9 on: Today at 12:17:50 AM »
If I were you I'd apply for a job elsewhere in another company, get an offer (that's hopefully better than what you're getting now), hand in your notice, and see if your current employers make a counter-offer.
I think its career suicide to hand in your notice and then accept a counter offer?
Your employers will keep you on, yes, but they'll know you're not happy or loyal and have now just bought themselves some time to find your replacement?
As soon as they do then you're gone, on their terms, not your own...with no job to walk in to

Depends who you're working for. If you're working for some bitter and twisted individual then you'd be right, but in a normal company a counter-offer is a perfectly valid business practice.

whitey

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Re: Job Salary Dispute
« Reply #10 on: Today at 02:12:52 AM »
In companies like this often theres a handful of people know how to actually get $hit done.  If some of these key folks quit, management may be forced to put in some type of retention package to keep the rest happy.  It can pay (no pun intended) to be the last man standing

In my line of work, if theyre not paying you (going or market rate) its expected that people are going to start looking around for a better opportunity.

RedHand88

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Re: Job Salary Dispute
« Reply #11 on: Today at 08:57:10 AM »
If I were you I'd apply for a job elsewhere in another company, get an offer (that's hopefully better than what you're getting now), hand in your notice, and see if your current employers make a counter-offer.

I 100% agree with this. A business owner will pay you as little as they can without you running out the door. I don't know what your industry is but for managing that number of staff you definitely deserve a higher salary.
I don't know how hard it is for you to apply elsewhere but I would move heaven and earth to get an offer, get accepted and then go back to your current employer with the news. If you're as important as I believe you are they will stump up the money. They won't want to start promoting a 19 year old who barely passed the interview.

tiempo

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Re: Job Salary Dispute
« Reply #12 on: Today at 09:37:23 AM »

A rough breakdown of grade pay scales is:
Grade 1 £16000 - £24000
Grade 2 £18000 - £25000
Grade 3 £20000 - £26500
Grade 4 £21000 - £28000
Grade 5 £23000 - £33000


The gradings are a joke and you're being shafted. Couple of good bits of advice above, group collective of affected individuals if you actaully want to fight this. Don't overestimate how happy you are in the job, why would you not be happy elsewhere, don't stay for the people, I'm sure management are getting well looked after, what are your goals, are you getting development opportunities, a chance to upskill, do you want a challenge, are you capable and getting the right amount of challenge in the role at present, how much of what you already know can you transfer to another firm... do you consider £30k a lot of money and would you consider another job if the offer was on the table? If the answer is yes then start looking.

I know a person who wanted specific training in a high end role at my firm, the company declined her individual development plan, she left, got the training elsewhere through professional development and by doing courses herself at her own expense alongside working, now fully qualified back at our current firm making a killing and no-one fell out, doesn't have to be all sabre rattling and drama.