Gay activist goes out of his way to be offended.

[armaghniac]

Why should a business apologise for advocating morality? If someone wanted a 'kill all taigs' cake and they didn't want the business should they apologise to them also? Would they have to apologise to Zulu if they mentioned that the Bible suggested not killing people?

[haranguerer]

I dont understand any of that.

[Zip Code]

If a man who owns a clothing printing service on the Falls Road was to refuse to print 'ulster says no' tshirts for a loyalist, would he fall foul of these discrimation laws?

What if he refused the same loyalist tshirts with an anti-papal message?

What if he refused a 'kill all taigs' tshirt message?

Vendors have to have some rights. Equality shouldn't be confused with  egalitarianism.

The first one, perhaps.

The other two, no, I'd say they would be refused on decency and incitement grounds.

And here you've highlighted the absolute gist of the problem with anyone making this a discrimination case. Who decides when the moral compass has gone too far south? Unless we're going to call on judges and lawyers every time a sale is requested for a personalised item, then we realistically have to allow traders the ability to make up their own minds.

The Equality commission.

Remember too, its Ashers who brought the publicity. They received a letter telling them it was considered they have been discriminatory, and asking them what they were going to do about it. This is them being given the chance to do something about it. They decided to fight it, put up a youtube vid, and the media got involved. Most traders would have apologised, whatever, you'd never have heard about it.

He was looking cash - they done right to do what they did, hopefully he gets feck all.

[Zulu]

Why should a business apologise for advocating morality? If someone wanted a 'kill all taigs' cake and they didn't want the business should they apologise to them also? Would they have to apologise to Zulu if they mentioned that the Bible suggested not killing people?

Equating Gay rights with the right to kill all Catholics?? I get you now.

[whiskeysteve]

The state can't force a private enterprise to make a product they don't want to make. That's facism.

Lets be clear on the distinction between discriminating against people and discriminating against a work of your own creation. A distinction a few on here are at pains to illustrate.

[Zulu]

I don't know if this baker discriminated against this customer according to the law but anyone using a strict and debatable interpretation of the bible as grounds for refusing to make an inoffensive cake is a nut job who should be criticised. This guy is a protestant and I doubt he'd be escaping widespread criticism here if he was refusing to make first communion cakes based on a Cromwell era view of Catholicism.

[armaghniac]

The state can't force a private enterprise to make a product they don't want to make. That's facism.

Lets be clear on the distinction between discriminating against people and discriminating against a work of your own creation. A distinction a few on here are at pains to illustrate.

That's it in a nutshell.

[thewobbler]

Why should a business apologise for advocating morality? If someone wanted a 'kill all taigs' cake and they didn't want the business should they apologise to them also? Would they have to apologise to Zulu if they mentioned that the Bible suggested not killing people?

Equating Gay rights with the right to kill all Catholics?? I get you now.

You're just twisting here Zulu. He's not equating gay rights with anything. He's asking at what point it becomes acceptable for a business to decline a request (not a person) without fear of a discrimination case being launched against him.

[ziggysego]

I believe that Gregory Campbell raised this issue in the british prime ministers question time in parliament today.

It was a loaded question suggesting the right of the shop keeper not to serve certain people.

The PM hadnt a clue what Camel was on about, and said so, but added that britsh culture does not discriminate against race, religion nor disability.

Imagine if the shop had chosen not to serve someone in a wheelchair.

I'd be all over that www.mywayaccess.com

[thewobbler]

I don't know if this baker discriminated against this customer according to the law but anyone using a strict and debatable interpretation of the bible as grounds for refusing to make an inoffensive cake is a nut job who should be criticised. This guy is a protestant and I doubt he'd be escaping widespread criticism here if he was refusing to make first communion cakes based on a Cromwell era view of Catholicism.

See I'd suggest that if a Catholic visited a staunchly Protestant bakers - which has no history of making Communion cakes and no desire to learn, and is actually a little wary of his day-to-day patrons learning that he creates Communion cakes - and then demanded that a Communion cake was baked, that the problem here is with the Catholic, and not the Protestant. I don't agree with the Protestant's methods, but it's the Catholic who is seeking to be discriminated against,

[Zip Code]

I don't know if this baker discriminated against this customer according to the law but anyone using a strict and debatable interpretation of the bible as grounds for refusing to make an inoffensive cake is a nut job who should be criticised. This guy is a protestant and I doubt he'd be escaping widespread criticism here if he was refusing to make first communion cakes based on a Cromwell era view of Catholicism.

See I'd suggest that if a Catholic visited a staunchly Protestant bakers - which has no history of making Communion cakes and no desire to learn, and is actually a little wary of his day-to-day patrons learning that he creates Communion cakes - and then demanded that a Communion cake was baked, that the problem here is with the Catholic, and not the Protestant. I don't agree with the Protestant's methods, but it's the Catholic who is seeking to be discriminated against,

Or in this case the gay!

[haranguerer]

You all seem to be using bigotry to excuse homophobia.

[ziggysego]

I don't know if this baker discriminated against this customer according to the law but anyone using a strict and debatable interpretation of the bible as grounds for refusing to make an inoffensive cake is a nut job who should be criticised. This guy is a protestant and I doubt he'd be escaping widespread criticism here if he was refusing to make first communion cakes based on a Cromwell era view of Catholicism.

See I'd suggest that if a Catholic visited a staunchly Protestant bakers - which has no history of making Communion cakes and no desire to learn, and is actually a little wary of his day-to-day patrons learning that he creates Communion cakes - and then demanded that a Communion cake was baked, that the problem here is with the Catholic, and not the Protestant. I don't agree with the Protestant's methods, but it's the Catholic who is seeking to be discriminated against,

What?!

What's the extra ingredient in a gay cake, that the baker would need to learn to use?

[Zulu]

Ok, but if a barber had no history of cutting the hair of black people would it be ok to refuse a black person? Would it be ok to say sorry, I don't like blacks and many of my customers (probably) don't like blacks so I can't cut your hair? Is it the black persons fault?

I don't think it is ok to refuse a gay person's custom because you don't agree with gay marriage or whatever and I think it's disgraceful to justify it on the basis on what's in the bible. That's not being Christian, that's being a Christian zealot.

If society accepts this then a lot of backward thinking nonsense can be justified. The baker may be ok on legal grounds but he certainly has no moral justification in my mind. 

[deiseach]

Ok, but if a barber had no history of cutting the hair of black people would it be ok to refuse a black person? Would it be ok to say sorry, I don't like blacks and many of my customers (probably) don't like blacks so I can't cut your hair? Is it the black persons fault?

I don't think it is ok to refuse a gay person's custom because you don't agree with gay marriage or whatever and I think it's disgraceful to justify it on the basis on what's in the bible. That's not being Christian, that's being a Christian zealot.

If society accepts this then a lot of backward thinking nonsense can be justified. The baker may be ok on legal grounds but he certainly has no moral justification in my mind.

Your barber scenario would be discrimination. But the baker scenario we have at the moment is more akin to a barber who refuses to cut shamrocks into a person's hair because it's a Fenian symbol. As long as they apply that rule to all their customers there shouldn't be a problem, daft though it is. Unless you think they should be forced to cut shamrocks into people's hair?