Woolwich Islamic Terrorist Attack

[bcarrier]

What the guy with meat cleaver on film said

"We must fight them as they fight us. An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. I apologise that women had to witness this today but in our lands our women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove your government, they don't care about you. Do you think David Cameron is going to get caught in the street when we start busting our guns? Do you think your politicians are going to die?No, it's going to be the average guy like you, and your children. So get rid of them. Tell them to bring our troops back so we, so you can all live in peace."

The "wisdom" of Göring:

Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.
Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.
Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.
In an interview with Gilbert in Göring's jail cell during the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials (18 April 1946)

If you accept Göring's analysis this attacker actually does the bidding of the leaders he seeks to remove.

[haranguerer]

Seen some video's from ITN. Shocking - the guys who did it are clean nuts. Calmly talking to the camera, apologizing that women in the vicinity had to witness it....

So not at all nuts then

To murder a random stranger in cold blood hacking off his body parts and then speak calmly to bystanders would be clean nuts in my book.....

Just because some people place a lower value on life than you do, and are more willing to take it, does not make them nuts. Not does it make them nuts that they chose to do it by hacking at someone. They wanted to make a statement, and shock is the most effective tool of doing so. They knew what they were doing, and I for one would feel that out of the many murders committed annually, this is one where a plea for insanity would have no grounds whatsoever.

Oh, and it wasn't a random stranger-they knew what they were doing.

[theskull1]

+1

[southdown]

Sickening.  reports suggest it took 20 minutes for police to arrive

[balladmaker]

20 minutes for police to arrive in a capital city is about 17 minutes too long! 

[NAG1]

20 minutes for police to arrive in a capital city is about 17 minutes too long!

This was most probably the Armed Response Unit which I would imagine in a normalised society like London wouldn't be around every corner on a day to day basis.

Lets not get away from the fact, that even if the response time was 30 seconds the damage was done for the Solider.

The two murderers are obviously getting mixed up in their ideologies, firstly one of them says to bring 'our' troops home while the other is referring to British solider's killing Muslims in 'our' lands. Two sick twisted individuals with warped minds who have been moulded and shaped by some one into these actions.

A little bit of knowledge is a very dangerous thing.

[omagh_gael]

Sickening.  reports suggest it took 20 minutes for police to arrive

Nearly certain it was 20 minutes before the armed police arrived. Regular 'bobbies' were there earlier but didnt approach due to the armed perpetrators.

On a side note, Boris Johnston said this morning that British foreign policy had nothing to do with this attack. He obviously wasn't paying too much attention.

[theskull1]

The two murderers are obviously getting mixed up in their ideologies, firstly one of them says to bring 'our' troops home while the other is referring to British solider's killing Muslims in 'our' lands. Two sick twisted individuals with warped minds who have been moulded and shaped by some one into these actions.

A little bit of knowledge is a very dangerous thing.

This warped minds comment struck a chord with me. Can we really say that the media fed masses here in the west are not getting their minds "warped" so to speak. Do we really know what we are talking about when it comes to what is happening out there? I dont think we are. No doubt these men have been warped with a different perspective on the wests involvement in these conflicts. The question is ..who is closer to the truth? Shock and instilling panic are well know tactics of the guerrilla. These guys are as sane as you and me..make no doubt about it

[deiseach]

On a side note, Boris Johnston said this morning that British foreign policy had nothing to do with this attack. He obviously wasn't paying too much attention.

It's much easier to dismiss these killers as insane rather than assume they were quite lucid when they performed this evil act.

[NAG1]

The two murderers are obviously getting mixed up in their ideologies, firstly one of them says to bring 'our' troops home while the other is referring to British solider's killing Muslims in 'our' lands. Two sick twisted individuals with warped minds who have been moulded and shaped by some one into these actions.

A little bit of knowledge is a very dangerous thing.

This warped minds comment struck a chord with me. Can we really say that the media fed masses here in the west are not getting their minds "warped" so to speak. Do we really know what we are talking about when it comes to what is happening out there? I dont think we are. No doubt these men have been warped with a different perspective on the wests involvement in these conflicts. The question is ..who is closer to the truth? Shock and instilling panic are well know tactics of the guerrilla. These guys are as sane as you and me..make no doubt about it

I am not denying the fact that they are completely sane and lucid in the act of what they did, my point is that on the very basic level of taking a meat clever to a fellow human being, blow after blow to attempt to behead them, completely soaked in blood and yet able to still attempt to justify it. To me on the very basic human level that is completely warped and anyone's brain who functions in a way that allows them to justify that type of action is 'warped'.

[southdown]

Those men were freely walking about yielding weapons.  The footage showed and old lady casually walking by.  They could easily have attacked more people in that period when they were freely walking around.  Madness.

[johnneycool]

The two murderers are obviously getting mixed up in their ideologies, firstly one of them says to bring 'our' troops home while the other is referring to British solider's killing Muslims in 'our' lands. Two sick twisted individuals with warped minds who have been moulded and shaped by some one into these actions.

A little bit of knowledge is a very dangerous thing.

This warped minds comment struck a chord with me. Can we really say that the media fed masses here in the west are not getting their minds "warped" so to speak. Do we really know what we are talking about when it comes to what is happening out there? I dont think we are. No doubt these men have been warped with a different perspective on the wests involvement in these conflicts. The question is ..who is closer to the truth? Shock and instilling panic are well know tactics of the guerrilla. These guys are as sane as you and me..make no doubt about it

I am not denying the fact that they are completely sane and lucid in the act of what they did, my point is that on the very basic level of taking a meat clever to a fellow human being, blow after blow to attempt to behead them, completely soaked in blood and yet able to still attempt to justify it. To me on the very basic human level that is completely warped and anyone's brain who functions in a way that allows them to justify that type of action is 'warped'.

The personal aspect of it is hard to fathom, i.e. looking your victim in the eye and carrying out the act of hacking them to death, but the end result is just the same as sitting in an Apache helicopter and pushing a button.

Those men were freely walking about yielding weapons.  The footage showed and old lady casually walking by.  They could easily have attacked more people in that period when they were freely walking around.  Madness.

But they didn't, they picked their target as a member of the British Army and their work was done. If they'd started slashing all around them would we be talking about collateral damage?

Are we in the civilised west the hypocrites here?

[thejuice]

Sickening.  reports suggest it took 20 minutes for police to arrive

It took me 2 hours yesterday to drive from Chelsea to the M25 yesterday. The armed police were actually quick, given how choked the city was with traffic. They probably should have caught the tube instead.

[screenexile]

Yes the incident yesterday was completely abhorrent but equally the tirade of racism pouring out on Facebook and Twitter is equally abhorrent.

Why must uninformed people feel the need to comment on things unnecessarily. It was a horrible crime and the perpetrators and anyone they are allied to should be brought to justice. Why people feel the need to say all blacks, pakistani's, muslims should all be put to death is beyond me!

[theticklemister]

The man with the cleaver knows who he is attacking as he was face to face.

The man in the apache helicopter is pressing a button that will release 400 rounds a minute into a building full of people. He doesnt know his target.