GAA Outreach in Action...

[thewobbler]

Hardstation because the world has moved on since the Pearses were formed.


You should try it sometime.

It's a better world. I promise.

[Saffrongael]

Big mistake by the club, no doubt.

Hardstation because there was no outcry at your club everyone should have the same view?

[Hardy]

That makes no sense, hardy.

My point is that it's unnecessarily divisive and clearly provocative, not just to non-nationalists but to the wider GAA membership who are, at least, uncomfortable with, at best totally opposed to the invocation of IRA figures in the GAA context.

For me, the James Connolly argument doesn't stand up. There is no equivalence, in purely GAA terms, between the IRA of the War of Independence and the IRA of the troubles or between James Connolly and Martin McCaughey. That is not to go into the political argument about relative legitimicacies of the Old IRA and the Provos - I'm happy to have that debate, but it's not the point here.

I mean that James Connolly, Padraig Pearse, etc. are not divisive figures among the present day GAA membership, never mind the wider public (nationalist, at least, and even beyond that to some extent). We can argue about whether the reason for that is simply the passage of time or some substantive difference in their acceptability. Whatever - the point is that invoking latter-day Provisional IRA figures is deliberately divisive and provocative and effectively bending the party-political rule because those doing it know that the majority of members are very unhappy about it and don't subscribe to the political philosophy being so obviously touted. What good does it do for an organisation whose primary purpose is community service and development?

[thewobbler]

As I said, our club recently ran a Joe McKelvey tournament. No outcry.

Why is that?

If I reverse out of my driveway everyday without looking, and never hit anyone, does that mean i get a pardon on the day I finally do hit someone? No it doesn't. Especially not when I've had umpteen near misses.

[Myles Na G.]

As I said, our club recently ran a Joe McKelvey tournament. No outcry.

Why is that?

Joe McKelvey died ninety years ago. Enough time has passed to ensure that there are few around today who would have been directly effected by anything he did in pursuit of his politics. He is a part of history. The same can't be said for the more recent generation of 'heroes' who killed and died in pursuit of a power sharing assembly in Stormont and to guarantee for all of us the right to see the union flag fly above Belfast City Hall on designated days only.

[AZOffaly]

I'm not talking about yer woman getting offended, I'm talking about the views of people on here.

Hardy seems to get it but seems to think that non divisive "terrorists" should stay and divisive "terrorists" kept out which is all very subjective.

Again, it's cherry picking your "terrorists".

If we rid ourselves of politics, we rid ourselves of all politics.

There's a lot of sense in what you say hardstation, but I'm sure most people instinctively know which are likely to cause most offence, and which are deemed acceptable. For example George Washington is not a terrorist anymore, but he probably was back in the 1700s.

It is undoubtedly vague, but I think the 'gut feel' check is normally fairly spot on here. Wolfe Tone, Robert Emmett, Padraig Pearse are undoubtedly seen in a different light to Bobby Sands, Martin McCaughey or any other participant in the most recent troubles.

Whether it's right or not that they are seen differently can be debated all day, but they are seen differently by most of the people in this country, I would suggest, even if seen as the same by a sizeable minority.

It is noticeable that no-one has a Michael Collins GAA club, or an Eamonn De Velera club though, at least that I'm aware of? Then again that Collins is a woeful ref so why would you?

[GalwayBayBoy]

I'm all for rememberance but I don't think doing it on medals for children playing GAA is really the appropriate time or place to do it.

[Donnellys Hollow]

Why is there a need to commemorate anyone on a set of u12 medals?

All 11 and 12 year olds want to do is go out and play matches. They couldn't care less about symbols, flags, plaques, club names etc. If everyone else on this island adopted a similar attitude we'd all be in a much better place.

[Hardy]

I'm not talking about yer woman getting offended, I'm talking about the views of people on here.

Hardy seems to get it but seems to think that non divisive "terrorists" should stay and divisive "terrorists" kept out which is all very subjective.

Again, it's cherry picking your "terrorists".

If we rid ourselves of politics, we rid ourselves of all politics.

I do get it, I think, but I never mentioned "terrorists" (we can have that debate separately too). I mentioned deliberate divisiveness and provocation.

[orangeman]

Does anyone know how long this particular tournament has been going on and is this the first time a complaint has been aired about such a medal or such a tournament ?.

With the onset of peace, it seems that there's a move ( I'm not sure where it has come from but I suspect it's high level ) on to try and "clean up" our act and to get rid of the "rednecks" in the association who would seem to be causing it huge embarassment by continuing with tournaments like these. Does this woman really exist who made the complaint ?.

It was not very long ago, fine and dandy to promote republicanism within our GAA grounds. GAA clubs were seen as the IRA at play and individuals within clubs in the North suffered greatly.

But now, with peace, the peace dividend and Peter Robinson giving us a pile of money for the development of GAA, it's now time to cleanse ourselves and consign people like Martin Mc Caughey to the history books. The war's over. The GAA have served their purpose. Time to move on. The history of the troubles has been written. There's a big book called " Tyrone's Struggle for Irish Freedom" available at £25.

It's called progress. But that logic appears to be lost on those who persist with the running of these tournaments and presentation of medals.

The issue of whether it's right to differentiate between Pearse and Sands, Emmett and Mc Caughey is a different concept altogether. Right now, the policy is to pack up the suitcase and move on to a new place and leave the dirty past behind us.

HS is right. One out, all out. You can't cherry pick.

[winghalfun]

My point is that it's unnecessarily divisive and clearly provocative, not just to non-nationalists but to the wider GAA membership who are, at least, uncomfortable with, at best totally opposed to the invocation of IRA figures in the GAA context

I am not sure whether this is the case or not. It is Galbally we are talking about here which was and still is a very strong, traditionally republican area.

For a place like this it is unlikely that such a tournament was divisive or indeed provocative (Sorry couldn't resist) to the vast majority of the parents who allowed their children to play. 

If there is a debate then it should be focused on why the majority of parents think it is acceptable that a youth football tournament should be played in honour of a dead IRA volunteer/terrorist and not on one lady who thinks it was not.

If this particular lady was offended then that is her right to be so - as is her right to have nothing more to do with the club or any of its football teams.

I would suggest that her disgust is a general anti republican stance (again her absolute right) rather than some well thought out cohesive objection to this particular tournament.

Reminds me of the famous Groucho Marx comment "I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members."

[orangeman]

When the new rules are introduced, what date, decade, year or event will be decided upon as the cut off point ?

Were those who fought in the border campaign heroes or terrorists ?

Clady club in Armagh could be in bother.

[Main Street]

'Terrorists' up to and including 1957 are tolerated without much ado.
Irish status quo opinion has become very comfortable with the terrorists of previous generations.
So, it probably needs to wait a generation before contention about McCaughey is not an issue.

[Tony Baloney]

Does anyone know how long this particular tournament has been going on and is this the first time a complaint has been aired about such a medal or such a tournament ?.

With the onset of peace, it seems that there's a move ( I'm not sure where it has come from but I suspect it's high level ) on to try and "clean up" our act and to get rid of the "rednecks" in the association who would seem to be causing it huge embarassment by continuing with tournaments like these. Does this woman really exist who made the complaint ?.

It was not very long ago, fine and dandy to promote republicanism within our GAA grounds. GAA clubs were seen as the IRA at play and individuals within clubs in the North suffered greatly.

But now, with peace, the peace dividend and Peter Robinson giving us a pile of money for the development of GAA, it's now time to cleanse ourselves and consign people like Martin Mc Caughey to the history books. The war's over. The GAA have served their purpose. Time to move on. The history of the troubles has been written. There's a big book called " Tyrone's Struggle for Irish Freedom" available at £25.

It's called progress. But that logic appears to be lost on those who persist with the running of these tournaments and presentation of medals.

The issue of whether it's right to differentiate between Pearse and Sands, Emmett and Mc Caughey is a different concept altogether. Right now, the policy is to pack up the suitcase and move on to a new place and leave the dirty past behind us.

HS is right. One out, all out. You can't cherry pick.

Of course you can cherry pick. If you were a terrorist in living memory (call it 80 years) are out.

[Tony Baloney]

Clubs etc. that are already on the books at HQ would be exempt. Stricter rules should be brought in regarding naming new clubs, grounds and competitions even down to individual trophies organised by the club. By membership you agree to comply with the rules. Break them you get hammered, assuming the GAA have the balls for it.