MPs want action on NI fuel fraud

[armaghniac]

Thats just ludicrous

What exactly is ludicrous about it? It may not be quite precise, but it is not "ludicrous".

[haranguerer]

There are a huge number of variables, and it fails to take into account the overwhelming majority of them. Dont take it personally, those in power havent been able to come up with anything that works either 

[armaghniac]

There are a huge number of variables, and it fails to take into account the overwhelming majority of them. Dont take it personally, those in power havent been able to come up with anything that works either

I didn't imply that a simple acreage should be used, but that farmers nowadays do report in some detail what they are doing, tillage, grazing or whatever.

[haranguerer]

Farmers could get an allowance of diesel based on size of farm as reported in the agricultural reporting...

Backtrack much? 

As an off the cuff means of measurement it prob seems like the obvious one, but I'm just justifying my use of 'ludicrous'.

When you look into any of the means of regulating it, I'm sure you can start to see the difficulties yourself. It seems as though the current system, while not perfect by any means, is as good as any of them.

[lawnseed]

lads your incorrectly assuming that farmers are the only people using red rebated diesel. quarries use it, contractors (non agric.) hauliers put it in reefers basically any non road going vehicle. alot of ec countries also colour their fuel. the trouble is that oil is getting more expensive daily and will soon be out of reach of the normal working man.

[Tony Baloney]

lads your incorrectly assuming that farmers are the only people using red rebated diesel. quarries use it, contractors (non agric.) hauliers put it in reefers basically any non road going vehicle. alot of ec countries also colour their fuel. the trouble is that oil is getting more expensive daily and will soon be out of reach of the normal working man.

Still fail to see what is wrong with giving all these people a diesel card and letting them buy the real deal and claim back the VAT using receipts  traceable to their card. The father-in-law does it for white diesel he fills the pick-up with at the pumps so why not apply the same principle across the board.

[trileacman]

lads your incorrectly assuming that farmers are the only people using red rebated diesel. quarries use it, contractors (non agric.) hauliers put it in reefers basically any non road going vehicle. alot of ec countries also colour their fuel. the trouble is that oil is getting more expensive daily and will soon be out of reach of the normal working man.

Still fail to see what is wrong with giving all these people a diesel card and letting them buy the real deal and claim back the VAT using receipts  traceable to their card. The father-in-law does it for white diesel he fills the pick-up with at the pumps so why not apply the same principle across the board.

The farmers would have to buy it bulk as they currently do, they would then sell it to you and other non-registered people at a discount whilst they lift the VAT back on it. With thousands of farms and individual tanks it would be impossible to police who was selling what.

[trileacman]

There are a huge number of variables, and it fails to take into account the overwhelming majority of them. Dont take it personally, those in power havent been able to come up with anything that works either

I didn't imply that a simple acreage should be used, but that farmers nowadays do report in some detail what they are doing, tillage, grazing or whatever.

That's a complete lie. No farmer anywhere in the North is obliged by law to detail their tillage or grazing patterns. Next to no-one does. If you expect farmers and other business to detail exactly how long they left the engine running whilst feeding or ploughing you are off your rocker.

[armaghniac]

That's a complete lie. No farmer anywhere in the North is obliged by law to detail their tillage or grazing patterns. Next to no-one does. If you expect farmers and other business to detail exactly how long they left the engine running whilst feeding or ploughing you are off your rocker.

I propose to compensate farmers for having to use white diesel and I have suggested that this could be done near enough with available data. You seem to think that an approximate solution is not enough and that every litre must be exactly accounted for. That is fair enough.

However, it is well  out of order to imply that someone is telling "complete lies", "off their rocker" (or "ludicrous") simply for disagreeing with you.

[saffron sam2]

Ask the jolly farmers to provide evidence of all the red diesel they have purchased in bulk over the last five years.

Take an average over the five years.

Allow this amount of white diesel to be purchased at a discounted rate. Every litre above this charged at the full amount the rest of us pay.

Anyone unable to provide evidence (they are all audited businesses by the way) gets no allowance.

I hate culchie farmers.

[BennyCake]

How much is red diesel these days?

[charlieTully]

In my reckoning, this a problem for Westminster and, in all seriousness, f**k them. Disappointed to see SF wade in behind MP's and the Crown to give support to a country that doesn't give a f**k about us and whose outstanding legacy in Ireland is one of theft, abuse and genocide.

If Westminster has a problem with people dodging tax in NI then they should be told we have a problem with a government who waged war upon the ideals of equality and freedom and today still continues to do so in the Middle East.

A crime against the British government is no crime at all.

well said.

[sammymaguire]

I just paid 150.0 per litre for diesel 

is it not cheaper at Silverstream there at the border??

[trileacman]

That's a complete lie. No farmer anywhere in the North is obliged by law to detail their tillage or grazing patterns. Next to no-one does. If you expect farmers and other business to detail exactly how long they left the engine running whilst feeding or ploughing you are off your rocker.

I propose to compensate farmers for having to use white diesel and I have suggested that this could be done near enough with available data. You seem to think that an approximate solution is not enough and that every litre must be exactly accounted for. That is fair enough.

However, it is well  out of order to imply that someone is telling "complete lies", "off their rocker" (or "ludicrous") simply for disagreeing with you.

You said "that farmers nowadays do report in some detail what they are doing, tillage, grazing". That is simply not true and you'll find no evidence that it is.

I have suggested that this could be done near enough with available data.

That is not true either, provide one shred of "available data" that could be used to approximate "near enough" how much farmers use.

Ask the jolly farmers to provide evidence of all the red diesel they have purchased in bulk over the last five years.
Take an average over the five years.
Allow this amount of white diesel to be purchased at a discounted rate. Every litre above this charged at the full amount the rest of us pay.
Anyone unable to provide evidence (they are all audited businesses by the way) gets no allowance.
I hate culchie farmers.

So farmers use exactly the same amount of diesel year in year out? What allowance is there for expansion of the business or overhaul of the yard, land or machinery?

An equivalent suggestion would be to average everyone's taxes over the past 5 years and charge them, in future, simply on those figures.

[theticklemister]

Feck it...................i'm away to South Armagh!