RIP Amy Winehouse

[theskull1]

Totally agree with you in thats the starting point and do agree its all dependant on how much the person wants to stop, obviously if they dont want to stop they cannot be helped. Of course there are people with pure willpower that dont depend on AA or medication etc and i admire them for it.

Arthur and Skull dont bloody patronise me. As for your assumption that people who were once alcoholics and no longer drink so they are no longer alcoholics i think thats rubbish. They are recovering alcoholics. Id imagine all recovering alcoholics have no desire to ever drink again. That doesnt mean they wont. If they do take a drink ever in their whole lifetime then what do they become? Normal drinkers?

Believe it or not Skull i agree entirely on what you said about an addict being in an enviroment where loved ones around him/ her pander to their every move. Have seen tough love applied and its worked.  I dont see anyone in the immediate family of any of these people saying god love him / her type thing. They pity the person to the extent that its horrible but at the same time have anger and frustration that this person cant try to seek help.
All the interventions in the world cant help someone who doesnt want to be helped.  That however is only half the battle. Wanting to be helped and wanting to stay off it doesnt mean you have beaten it, it only means you can try your best and hope that your best is enough!

I patronise you TG because your such a drama queen when you read an unsavory opinion thats not one you share but you don't actually deal with points I make. I still am trying to understand why it shouldn't be seen retrospectively as a good thing if someone who has a massively negative influence on the world around them dies? Anders Breivik father certainly agrees with me. Maybe you're saying that a chronic drug addict or alcoholic can bring alot of positives to the world..I don't know...maybe you can explain.

You say you agree with "tough love" but from reading all the posts you've delivered in this threads I don't really think you do. You've been pitying the addicts from the get go and if you have any addicts in your immediate family make no mistake they will have latched on to all that pity and become reliant on it as they try to maintian their habit. I think what you're calling "tough love" is not what I would class as "tough love".

[theskull1]

TG could I suggest you dont contribute to threads like these as it would appear that you get too emotionally charged by opinions not aligned to your own. My view on these type of topics is that it's good to hear all the varying points of view and discuss them rationally but it's obvious you wouldn't be from the same school of thought.

[Arthur_Friend]

"Your very naive if you think that because a recovering alcoholic has no desire to ever drink again that they wont ever. Never is a long time"

They aren't recovering if they don't want to drink...they have fully recovered. And please don't patronise me either Sweetie.

[Tyrones own]

TG could I suggest you dont contribute to threads like these as it would appear that you get too emotionally charged by opinions not aligned to your own. My view on these type of topics is that it's good to hear all the varying points of view and discuss them rationally but it's obvious you wouldn't be from the same school of thought.

You're clearly patronising....there are a fair few here including your good self
who'd do well to practice what you preach, hilarious actually!

[mylestheslasher]

Plenty of drug addicts have contributed to the world as we know it, many when still addicted. Of the top of my head

Phil Lynott
Jimi Hendrix
Kurt Kobain
Jim Morrison
Elvis
Shane McGowan
Christy Moore

Actually, pretty much every rock band there has ever been from the Beattles to Black Sabbath. Many were able to get their act together, some never fully beat the addiction and some took too much in the one sitting and overdosed.

To quote the legendary Bill Hicks "And if you don't believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor. Go home tonight. Take all your albums, all your tapes and all your CDs and burn them. 'Cause you know what, the musicians that made all that great music that's enhanced your lives throughout the years were rrreal f**king high on drugs. The Beatles were so f**king high they let Ringo sing a few tunes."

ie- abusing or being addicted to drugs does not make you a waste of oxygen that the world would be better off with

[Tony Baloney]

"Your very naive if you think that because a recovering alcoholic has no desire to ever drink again that they wont ever. Never is a long time"

They aren't recovering if they don't want to drink...they have fully recovered. And please don't patronise me either Sweetie.

You're fond of the auld drink yourself Freend. Any swallies about home lately?

[mylestheslasher]

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/independent-woman/celebrity-news-gossip/amy-winehouse-goodnight-my-angel-sleep-tight-daddy-loves-you-2831819.html


Amy Winehouse: Goodnight, my angel, sleep tight, Daddy loves you


Wednesday Jul 27 2011

The grief-stricken father of singer Amy Winehouse told her to "sleep tight" yesterday as her family and friends said their last goodbyes.

In a heartfelt eulogy, Mitch Winehouse told mourners his daughter had "conquered" her drug addiction, was "trying hard to deal with her drinking", and was happier than she had been for a long time.

The Grammy-award winning singer, who had battled drink and drug problems throughout her career, was found dead at her home in Camden on Saturday.

RELATED LINKS
Hilson sorry for Winehouse gaffe
The funeral service at Edgwarebury Cemetery in north London ended to the strains of her favourite song, Carole King's 'So Far Away'.

Mr Winehouse said his daughter was trying to deal with her drinking and had recently "just completed three weeks of abstinence", adding that she told him: "Dad I've had enough of drinking, I can't stand the look on your and the family's faces anymore."

He also revealed plans to set up a foundation in his daughter's name to help people struggling with addiction.

He added: "Knowing she wasn't depressed, knowing she passed away, knowing she passed away happy, it makes us all feel better."

His eulogy ended with the words: "Goodnight, my angel, sleep tight. Mummy and Daddy love you ever so much."

Among the guests at the service, which included prayers in English and Hebrew, were stylist Alex Foden, who has been credited with creating Winehouse's trademark beehive hairdo, producer Mark Ronson and singer Kelly Osbourne.

Winehouse's bandmates, Zalon and Heshima Thompson, were among the select group included in the private ceremony which, according to Jewish law, had to take place as soon as possible after the star's death.

A spokesman for the family said: "Mitch was funny, he told some great stories from childhood about how headstrong she was. He stressed so many times she was happier now than she had ever been and he spoke about her boyfriend and paid tribute to a lot of people in her life."

After the service, which was led by Rabbi Frank Hellner, Winehouse's body was taken to Golders Green Crematorium.

Alfie Ezekiel, a friend of Amy's father, said: "Mitch gave a very good eulogy and he managed to get through it very well, considering.

"He said everything. I don't want to go into detail but his last words were 'Goodnight, my sweetheart'."

He said the service -- during which Mr Winehouse was the only family member to speak -- was "joyful" and "celebrated" the 27-year-old singer's life.

"It was very moving," he added. The 55-year-old, from Loughton, Essex, said between 300 and 400 mourners attended the service.

Some guests appeared to be fighting back tears as they walked away hand in hand, or with their heads bowed.

One mourner, who did not want to give her name, said the ceremony had been "wonderful" but was unable to say more.

Describing Mr Winehouse's eulogy, another added: "It was emotional. He said that she would be carried in his heart.

Winehouse's closest relatives and friends, including her mother Janis, brother Alex and her boyfriend Reg Traviss, then travelled to the crematorium .

The funeral comes after police revealed they will have to wait up to four weeks for the results of toxicology tests to establish her cause of death.

A post-mortem examination has proved inconclusive and an inquest has been opened and adjourned with no cause of death given.



Read more: http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/independent-woman/celebrity-news-gossip/amy-winehouse-goodnight-my-angel-sleep-tight-daddy-loves-you-2831819.html#ixzz1TJwx1DHl

[Maguire01]

I still am trying to understand why it shouldn't be seen retrospectively as a good thing if someone who has a massively negative influence on the world around them dies?

What has that got to do with addiction? Would you apply the same rationale to someone with a mental health problem.

And how do you measure whether someone has a 'massively negative influence on the world around them'? Can you say that Amy Winehouse did? How do you measure negatives against positives?

[theskull1]

I still am trying to understand why it shouldn't be seen retrospectively as a good thing if someone who has a massively negative influence on the world around them dies?

What has that got to do with addiction? Would you apply the same rationale to someone with a mental health problem.

And how do you measure whether someone has a 'massively negative influence on the world around them'? Can you say that Amy Winehouse did? How do you measure negatives against positives?

What has that got to do with addiction?
I wasn't just referring to addicion ..it was a general point about people who are a massively negative drain on the world around them. Alot of drug addicts would fall into that catagory. Maybe if you have the financial wealth to fund your habit and live without beg borrowing or stealing in realitive comfort then you aren't as big a drain on those close to you.

Would you apply the same rationale to someone with a mental health problem.
I could see some people with loved ones who have massive mental or physical disabilities for years which required massive support from those around them retrospectively looking back after those people had died and thinking it was for the best that are now not of this world yes. But I can also see situations where that wouldn't be the case.

And how do you measure whether someone has a 'massively negative influence on the world around them'?
Only those very close to that person would judge that for themselves individually.

Can you say that Amy Winehouse did?
Only those very close to her would know that. I am talking about people close to these people (family/friends...not fans)

How do you measure negatives against positives?
An abacus   

[BarryBreensBandage]

"Your very naive if you think that because a recovering alcoholic has no desire to ever drink again that they wont ever. Never is a long time"

They aren't recovering if they don't want to drink...they have fully recovered. And please don't patronise me either Sweetie.

I'm confused Arthur... I was going to back you up after one of your posts suggested that an acquaintance of yours could now enjoy a few drinks after being an alcoholic, now you are saying that never is never?

[Arthur_Friend]

"Your very naive if you think that because a recovering alcoholic has no desire to ever drink again that they wont ever. Never is a long time"

They aren't recovering if they don't want to drink...they have fully recovered. And please don't patronise me either Sweetie.

I'm confused Arthur... I was going to back you up after one of your posts suggested that an acquaintance of yours could now enjoy a few drinks after being an alcoholic, now you are saying that never is never?

Sorry for the confusion Barry. I do know personally of one person who was addicted to alcohol, stopped his behaviour, removed himself from the environment he was in and now only sips a few beers if he fancies it. Never gets drunk. This was after a few years of abstinence. I quizzed him about it and he said he doesn't like to get drunk any more, end of story. Perhaps most people would go straight back to their old behaviour.

The point I was trying to make above is in regard to the term 'recovering alcoholic' used to describe an alcoholic who has stopped drinking completely. I was making the point that if they no longer desire a drink they have fully recovered. I accept that if someone stops drinking and struggles against it on a daily basis even for 10 or 20 years, they are surely still addicted.

[mylestheslasher]

"Your very naive if you think that because a recovering alcoholic has no desire to ever drink again that they wont ever. Never is a long time"

They aren't recovering if they don't want to drink...they have fully recovered. And please don't patronise me either Sweetie.

I'm confused Arthur... I was going to back you up after one of your posts suggested that an acquaintance of yours could now enjoy a few drinks after being an alcoholic, now you are saying that never is never?

Sorry for the confusion Barry. I do know personally of one person who was addicted to alcohol, stopped his behaviour, removed himself from the environment he was in and now only sips a few beers if he fancies it. Never gets drunk. This was after a few years of abstinence. I quizzed him about it and he said he doesn't like to get drunk any more, end of story. Perhaps most people would go straight back to their old behaviour.

The point I was trying to make above is in regard to the term 'recovering alcoholic' used to describe an alcoholic who has stopped drinking completely. I was making the point that if they no longer desire a drink they have fully recovered. I accept that if someone stops drinking and struggles against it on a daily basis even for 10 or 20 years, they are surely still addicted.

I don't know what the exact definition of an alcoholic is but by my own definition I would not say your friend is an alcoholic. Rather he was very fond of the drink and decided to stop. For me alcoholics are in some way almost chemically addicted, they cannot simply stop. I know the type of guy your friend is, I know lads that are just bored and spend every waking minute in the pub but at the same time can quit for 6 months without much difficulty until the boredom sets in. In my opinion these guys are normally stuck in a rut where their social life revolves around the pub. The type I consider to be alcoholics are the people who simply cannot stop without help, people who will rob to feed their habit. People who wake themselves up in the night to skull a bottle of whiskey and have another one for breakfast. People that even when they are told their liver is about to give up on them and they will die - still must have a drink. Imo these are two very different cases. I'm not sure which Amy Winehouse belonged to but I am guessing the latter.

[brokencrossbar1]

"Your very naive if you think that because a recovering alcoholic has no desire to ever drink again that they wont ever. Never is a long time"

They aren't recovering if they don't want to drink...they have fully recovered. And please don't patronise me either Sweetie.

I'm confused Arthur... I was going to back you up after one of your posts suggested that an acquaintance of yours could now enjoy a few drinks after being an alcoholic, now you are saying that never is never?

Sorry for the confusion Barry. I do know personally of one person who was addicted to alcohol, stopped his behaviour, removed himself from the environment he was in and now only sips a few beers if he fancies it. Never gets drunk. This was after a few years of abstinence. I quizzed him about it and he said he doesn't like to get drunk any more, end of story. Perhaps most people would go straight back to their old behaviour.

The point I was trying to make above is in regard to the term 'recovering alcoholic' used to describe an alcoholic who has stopped drinking completely. I was making the point that if they no longer desire a drink they have fully recovered. I accept that if someone stops drinking and struggles against it on a daily basis even for 10 or 20 years, they are surely still addicted.

I don't know what the exact definition of an alcoholic is but by my own definition I would not say your friend is an alcoholic. Rather he was very fond of the drink and decided to stop. For me alcoholics are in some way almost chemically addicted, they cannot simply stop. I know the type of guy your friend is, I know lads that are just bored and spend every waking minute in the pub but at the same time can quit for 6 months without much difficulty until the boredom sets in. In my opinion these guys are normally stuck in a rut where their social life revolves around the pub. The type I consider to be alcoholics are the people who simply cannot stop without help, people who will rob to feed their habit. People who wake themselves up in the night to skull a bottle of whiskey and have another one for breakfast. People that even when they are told their liver is about to give up on them and they will die - still must have a drink. Imo these are two very different cases. I'm not sure which Amy Winehouse belonged to but I am guessing the latter.

Myles I have to strongly disagree with you there.  There are many types of alcoholics and people in Ireland in particular refuse to accept that the lad/lassie who, as you put it "can quit for 6 months" , are actually alcoholics.  They are binge drinking alcoholics and trust me they are every bit as bad as the daily tippler.  If anything they are worse.  I don't know how much personal experience you have of alcoholics but I have significant experience at first hand the damage and devastation to families that is created by binge alcoholics.  You don't know when the next binge is coming but you can read the signs, the edginess, the irritability, the late nights that were not there before, the absent-mindedness, the drifting out of conversations.  There are many signs and each one different for each person.  The fall-out from a binge drinker can be devastating both emotionally, physically and financially because for that weekend or week or month or however long they drink nothing else matters.  They will spend any money they have and will go without because of it and will allow their families to go without, they will fight with whoever they want no matter who they are, they will say/write the most vicious and evil things that to any sane person are completely incomprehensibly nasty but to the alcoholic are just par for the course, they wreck lives full stop.  Be under no allusions but the weekend binge alcoholics that are so prevalent in Ireland are a scourge on our country, the binge drinker is a scourge on our country and to say people are just stuck in a rut is a form of excusitis that hides an underlying problem that has been ignored for too long.

[mylestheslasher]

Fair enough bc. Maybe each an every case is different. I've never come across anyone like you described. The central point I was making was that someone who is addicted can't be mixed up with someone who just drinks excessively for social reasons.

[Denn Forever]

What she should be remembered for.  On BBC 3 tonight.

21:00 Amy Winehouse Tribute (R) (T) Jools Holland presents a collection of performances by the singer, who died on Saturday July 23. The programme features her first appearance on Later in 2003 with songs from her debut album Frank, and her 2006 return to the show for the launch of Back to Black. Plus, her duet with Paul Weller on Hootenanny and an appearance at the 2007 Mercury Prize.     

   21:40 BBC Sessions: Amy Winehouse (R) (T) Another chance to see a showcase of tracks from the late singer's Mercury-nominated albums Back to Black and Frank in the intimate surroundings of the Porchester Hall in Bayswater, London. With a full band and backing vocalists, she swings through her greatest hits, including Rehab and You Know I'm No Good.