Six Nations 2012

[Dinny Breen]

I know the arguments against but for once I would just wish a coach would go out on a limb back himself and do something different.  Australia and Wales have a similar talent pool they give young players an opportunity. Our coaches seem too obsessed with politics, experience and conservatism.  I couldn't a f**k about the 2015 World Cup at this stage but that squad won't win a Championship but if we develop over two years it could damn win one in two or three years time.  Irish rugby has got many things right but our international selection policy is not one of them.

[Mayo4Sam]

In fairness to Kidney this is the year to be conservative, a good 6 nations and a (unlikely) win against the  ABs and we could end up at 4th in the world rankings and save ourselves a huge amount of trouble in 2015. It's a long shot but a much smarter aim than developing players at this stage for four years time

[whitegoodman]

Dinny whilst I see where u are coming from Kidney was never going to make wholesale changes, he just isnt the type.  I think he believes in evolution rather than revolution.

In fairness he has brought younger players in gradually since his reign began with players like healy, o brien, murray and sexton becoming regulars since he took over.  I was hoping this year that this would continue with the likes of Ryan, Toner, Tuohy and Cave making there way into the first team squad but it doesnt look like its going to happen other than Ryan.

My biggest gripe with the Kidney reign is the failure to develop a pair of centres in anticipation of the demise of Darcy and O Driscoll.  He has had 3/4 years to look at this and we go into this years championship with the likelyhood that a winger is going to play outside centre and a player well past his best or a player who has never confinced at this level playing inside centre beside him.

There are players like Spence, Marshall, O Malley and Griffen coming through but none of these are ready yet.  It would have been interesting if Cave would have been fit if he would have given him a chance as he is currently the best 13 in Ireland.

Fergas McFadden is a strange one.  He looks to have all required for inside centre, pace,strength, kicking game and decent if not brilliant hands.  Yet his club and international coach see him as prodominantly a winger/outside centre.  Could they both be wrong?  Its all the more baffling when u see that it is a guy that hasnt been performing for over 2 years that is keeping him out of the 12 position for both club and country.

[AZOffaly]

In fairness, the same sort of criticism can be levelled at Kidney regarding his time at Munster. He never brought in new lads, barring necessity in the case of Dennis Hurley or whomever. He certainly did not groom replacements for the pack, O'Gara etc. McGahan has been criticised for the performance of the first team, and certainly Laurie Fisher was a mistake as Forwards coach. But I don't think we'd have seen the progress of Peter O'Mahoney, Simon Zebo, Danny Barnes, Steven Archer, Mike Sherry, Ian Nagle, Luke O'Dea, Billy Holland and others under Deccy.

[Dinny Breen]

There are players like Spence, Marshall, O Malley and Griffen coming through but none of these are ready yet.  It would have been interesting if Cave would have been fit if he would have given him a chance as he is currently the best 13 in Ireland.

Who deems them not ready? I like all four players, see buckets load of potential, they have all played HEC so are trusted by their provincial coach but instead as you state we will probably see D'Arcy and Earls in the centre. This is why I despair, I see the same mistakes over the last 7 years, Gatland was the last Irish coach to truly give youth a chance and that gave us some of greatest names in Irish rugby, he is doing a far better job at Wales than Kidney is at Ireland. Do Wales have better players?

I believe in giving youth a chance, it's just my own coaching philosophy no matter the sport. The young have no fear...

[trileacman]

I know the arguments against but for once I would just wish a coach would go out on a limb back himself and do something different.

You must have had a load of time for Lievermont then.

[Dinny Breen]

I know the arguments against but for once I would just wish a coach would go out on a limb back himself and do something different.

You must have had a load of time for Lievermont then.

Funny enough I did, he won a Grand Slam and got his team to a WC final they should have a chance to win only for some weak refereeing at the end. The media made him out to be madder than he was, this guy also won an u21 World Cup final and got Dax I think promoted to the Top 14.  Unfortunately for him the pressure in France is to win the GS every year, Kiddinme doesn't have that pressure period.

[muppet]

In fairness to Kidney this is the year to be conservative, a good 6 nations and a (unlikely) win against the  ABs and we could end up at 4th in the world rankings and save ourselves a huge amount of trouble in 2015. It's a long shot but a much smarter aim than developing players at this stage for four years time

Is this why Gavin Duffy is being tried out in the Wolfhounds?

[whitegoodman]

There are players like Spence, Marshall, O Malley and Griffen coming through but none of these are ready yet.  It would have been interesting if Cave would have been fit if he would have given him a chance as he is currently the best 13 in Ireland.

Who deems them not ready? I like all four players, see buckets load of potential, they have all played HEC so are trusted by their provincial coach but instead as you state we will probably see D'Arcy and Earls in the centre. This is why I despair, I see the same mistakes over the last 7 years, Gatland was the last Irish coach to truly give youth a chance and that gave us some of greatest names in Irish rugby, he is doing a far better job at Wales than Kidney is at Ireland. Do Wales have better players?

I believe in giving youth a chance, it's just my own coaching philosophy no matter the sport. The young have no fear...

Marshall is currently 3rd choice inside centre at Ulster behind Wallace and Whitten
Spence is currently 2nd choice outside centre at Ulster behind Cave
O Malley is currently 3rd choice outside centre at Leinster behind Drico and McFadden
Griffen is in his first full year as first choice at Connaught

Besides this Marshall has been out injured for a long spell and is only returning for the Ulster Ravens tonight.  Spence has also been out for a period and is only returning to the senior squad tomorrow as a sub.

U want to put these guys in straight away when most of them arent even first choice at club level.  What happens of they were taken in and it went horribly wrong.  It would set these players back years and leave it unlikely that we would see them in a green shirt for some time to come.

IMO bring them in gently, wolfhounds this year, possibly autumn internationals for some of them and then see where they are this time next year.

[trileacman]

There are players like Spence, Marshall, O Malley and Griffen coming through but none of these are ready yet.  It would have been interesting if Cave would have been fit if he would have given him a chance as he is currently the best 13 in Ireland.

Who deems them not ready? I like all four players, see buckets load of potential, they have all played HEC so are trusted by their provincial coach but instead as you state we will probably see D'Arcy and Earls in the centre. This is why I despair, I see the same mistakes over the last 7 years, Gatland was the last Irish coach to truly give youth a chance and that gave us some of greatest names in Irish rugby, he is doing a far better job at Wales than Kidney is at Ireland. Do Wales have better players?

I believe in giving youth a chance, it's just my own coaching philosophy no matter the sport. The young have no fear...

Marshall is currently 3rd choice inside centre at Ulster behind Wallace and Whitten
Spence is currently 2nd choice outside centre at Ulster behind Cave
O Malley is currently 3rd choice outside centre at Leinster behind Drico and McFadden
Griffen is in his first full year as first choice at Connaught

Besides this Marshall has been out injured for a long spell and is only returning for the Ulster Ravens tonight.  Spence has also been out for a period and is only returning to the senior squad tomorrow as a sub.

U want to put these guys in straight away when most of them arent even first choice at club level.  What happens of they were taken in and it went horribly wrong.  It would set these players back years and leave it unlikely that we would see them in a green shirt for some time to come.

IMO bring them in gently, wolfhounds this year, possibly autumn internationals for some of them and then see where they are this time next year.

Exactly if they aren't good enough for their club coach why are they deemed good enough for the international side.

[screenexile]

There are players like Spence, Marshall, O Malley and Griffen coming through but none of these are ready yet.  It would have been interesting if Cave would have been fit if he would have given him a chance as he is currently the best 13 in Ireland.

Who deems them not ready? I like all four players, see buckets load of potential, they have all played HEC so are trusted by their provincial coach but instead as you state we will probably see D'Arcy and Earls in the centre. This is why I despair, I see the same mistakes over the last 7 years, Gatland was the last Irish coach to truly give youth a chance and that gave us some of greatest names in Irish rugby, he is doing a far better job at Wales than Kidney is at Ireland. Do Wales have better players?

I believe in giving youth a chance, it's just my own coaching philosophy no matter the sport. The young have no fear...

Marshall is currently 3rd choice inside centre at Ulster behind Wallace and Whitten
Spence is currently 2nd choice outside centre at Ulster behind Cave
O Malley is currently 3rd choice outside centre at Leinster behind Drico and McFadden
Griffen is in his first full year as first choice at Connaught

Besides this Marshall has been out injured for a long spell and is only returning for the Ulster Ravens tonight.  Spence has also been out for a period and is only returning to the senior squad tomorrow as a sub.

U want to put these guys in straight away when most of them arent even first choice at club level.  What happens of they were taken in and it went horribly wrong.  It would set these players back years and leave it unlikely that we would see them in a green shirt for some time to come.

IMO bring them in gently, wolfhounds this year, possibly autumn internationals for some of them and then see where they are this time next year.

Is it not Marshall the Scrum Half who is only behind Pienaar? Young and bags of potential I don't think it would do any harm to have him and Conor Murray both in there for a straight shoot out at the no. 9 geansai!

[whitegoodman]

That's Paul Marshall ur thinking of, he is in his mid 20s I think, playing well as an impact sub for Ulster but will never make an international imo.

I'm talking about Luke Marshall, young inside centre they r raving about at Ulster. Bags of potential but nowhere near ready for international stage.

[muppet]

There are players like Spence, Marshall, O Malley and Griffen coming through but none of these are ready yet.  It would have been interesting if Cave would have been fit if he would have given him a chance as he is currently the best 13 in Ireland.

Who deems them not ready? I like all four players, see buckets load of potential, they have all played HEC so are trusted by their provincial coach but instead as you state we will probably see D'Arcy and Earls in the centre. This is why I despair, I see the same mistakes over the last 7 years, Gatland was the last Irish coach to truly give youth a chance and that gave us some of greatest names in Irish rugby, he is doing a far better job at Wales than Kidney is at Ireland. Do Wales have better players?

I believe in giving youth a chance, it's just my own coaching philosophy no matter the sport. The young have no fear...

Marshall is currently 3rd choice inside centre at Ulster behind Wallace and Whitten
Spence is currently 2nd choice outside centre at Ulster behind Cave
O Malley is currently 3rd choice outside centre at Leinster behind Drico and McFadden
Griffen is in his first full year as first choice at Connaught

Besides this Marshall has been out injured for a long spell and is only returning for the Ulster Ravens tonight.  Spence has also been out for a period and is only returning to the senior squad tomorrow as a sub.

U want to put these guys in straight away when most of them arent even first choice at club level.  What happens of they were taken in and it went horribly wrong.  It would set these players back years and leave it unlikely that we would see them in a green shirt for some time to come.

IMO bring them in gently, wolfhounds this year, possibly autumn internationals for some of them and then see where they are this time next year.

This argument is why Mike Ross took so long to come through. This argument would see Sean Cronin out of the squad.

[trileacman]

There are players like Spence, Marshall, O Malley and Griffen coming through but none of these are ready yet.  It would have been interesting if Cave would have been fit if he would have given him a chance as he is currently the best 13 in Ireland.

Who deems them not ready? I like all four players, see buckets load of potential, they have all played HEC so are trusted by their provincial coach but instead as you state we will probably see D'Arcy and Earls in the centre. This is why I despair, I see the same mistakes over the last 7 years, Gatland was the last Irish coach to truly give youth a chance and that gave us some of greatest names in Irish rugby, he is doing a far better job at Wales than Kidney is at Ireland. Do Wales have better players?

I believe in giving youth a chance, it's just my own coaching philosophy no matter the sport. The young have no fear...

Marshall is currently 3rd choice inside centre at Ulster behind Wallace and Whitten
Spence is currently 2nd choice outside centre at Ulster behind Cave
O Malley is currently 3rd choice outside centre at Leinster behind Drico and McFadden
Griffen is in his first full year as first choice at Connaught

Besides this Marshall has been out injured for a long spell and is only returning for the Ulster Ravens tonight.  Spence has also been out for a period and is only returning to the senior squad tomorrow as a sub.

U want to put these guys in straight away when most of them arent even first choice at club level.  What happens of they were taken in and it went horribly wrong.  It would set these players back years and leave it unlikely that we would see them in a green shirt for some time to come.

IMO bring them in gently, wolfhounds this year, possibly autumn internationals for some of them and then see where they are this time next year.

This argument is why Mike Ross took so long to come through. This argument would see Sean Cronin out of the squad.

Cronin was a first class/ first choice hooker at Connaught and got his call up to Ireland A and eventually Ireland. Unlike the fellas above he is second fiddle to a foreigner at Leinster not an Irishman. At any other province, except Ulster, he would probably be the first choice.

[whitegoodman]

Mike Ross wasnt deemed good enough at munster and he had IQ players ahead of him so he went over to Harliquins and improved himself as a player and came back and became first choice at Leinster and Ireland.

Dont think this is really relevant in the argument regarding players being ready to play for their country when they are not first choice for their clubs.