Author Topic: UK's existence is at risk - Brown  (Read 7359 times)

ziggysego

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Re: UK's existence is at risk - Brown
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2007, 04:43:35 PM »
We in Northern Ireland are an integral part of the union and we will stay that way regardless if you like it or not. the fact remains that all the scaremongering and posturing from Sinn Fein means absolutely nothing and the Empire will not change one iota in the long term, especially so close to home.So dream on boys and girls. You will never live to see a United ireland, it simply wont happen, my thought is over the coming decades we will see the status quo remain intact and I delighted about it.

 

This article has nothing to do with Sinn Fein. Sinn Fein had absoluately no influence in Gordon Brown's thinking. Why did you try and turn this into an anti Sinn Fein thread. Bloodly blinkers, reading what you want to see.
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Lamh Dhearg Alba

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Re: UK's existence is at risk - Brown
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2007, 10:59:42 PM »
Its always been England first.
Uniteg kingdom of England and the other bit players
Great Britain of England and those other statelets - that the English either despise or are completely apathetic about

Everying is England centric. When English people are talking about UK or GB - they actually mean England.
Or so it was when I lived there as a kid.
People barely acknowledged Scotland, wales or NI.

I dont think there will be much of a break up - as only scotland actually has a majority to leave the union.
NI are approx 50% to stay/leave - though most Brits (English) would jettison them in a heartbeat
and wales - is like englands pet.

Agree about a lot of English people just assuming that UK means England, interesting quote today from the MP for Berwick which is on the border "Across England, where history isn't always taught that much, I don't think that people realise these are two nations who agreed to work together. I think the phrase 'The United Kingdom' is actually lost on a lot of people. They don't realise that Scotland is a different nation with a different background and different traditions,".
In recent times though I think thats changing, even look at England sports fans now sporting St Georges Crosses at matches, a few years back it was all Union Flags. On top of that a more right wing anti-Scottish nationalism has appeared in England, people resent the fact there is a Scottish Parliament yet Scottish politicians still have a major say in the UK Parliament. A recent poll in the Daily Telegraph actually showed majorities supporting the break up of the Union in England and Scotland.

I dont see Scotland breaking away anytime soon but the Scottish Parliament will without doubt continue to seek further powers and if it doesnt become completely independent it will eventually be totally controllling Scotland and just leaving the likes of foreign policy and defence to Westminster, independence within a loose Union if you like.
With the SNP looking in a decent position to win the Scottish Parliament elections in May its certainly an interesting time, I would love to see an SNP administration at Holyrood and then the Tories winning the next UK election, there would without doubt be friction between the two parliaments. David Camerons recent comments are also interesting, he knows the Tories have bugger all support in Scotland and that Labour relies hugely on its Scottish MP's....if Scotland was to leave the Union it would help the Tories in England enourmously. Would probably also help the Scottish Tories who currently suffer from being seen as an English party, without that baggage they would win more votes.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2007, 11:03:25 PM by Lamh Dhearg Alba »

Tonto

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Re: UK's existence is at risk - Brown
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2007, 11:32:47 PM »
Best post of the thread, Lamh Dhearg, although I don't necessarily agree in that I WOULDN'T like to see an SNP majority.  I'd like a Tory majority in the UK but, as you point out, this is likely to cause a great deal of friction and, therefore, would be damaging to the Union.  Ironic, when you consider that rightist parties in Britain would be proud of the colonial past and of the success of the Union and left-leaning parties would be more inclined towards devolution on power.

Mel Gibson has a lot to answer for. :(

lynchbhoy

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Re: UK's existence is at risk - Brown
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2007, 09:02:57 PM »
Its always been England first.
Uniteg kingdom of England and the other bit players
Great Britain of England and those other statelets - that the English either despise or are completely apathetic about

Everying is England centric. When English people are talking about UK or GB - they actually mean England.
Or so it was when I lived there as a kid.
People barely acknowledged Scotland, wales or NI.

I dont think there will be much of a break up - as only scotland actually has a majority to leave the union.
NI are approx 50% to stay/leave - though most Brits (English) would jettison them in a heartbeat
and wales - is like englands pet.

Agree about a lot of English people just assuming that UK means England, interesting quote today from the MP for Berwick which is on the border "Across England, where history isn't always taught that much, I don't think that people realise these are two nations who agreed to work together. I think the phrase 'The United Kingdom' is actually lost on a lot of people. They don't realise that Scotland is a different nation with a different background and different traditions,".
In recent times though I think thats changing, even look at England sports fans now sporting St Georges Crosses at matches, a few years back it was all Union Flags. On top of that a more right wing anti-Scottish nationalism has appeared in England, people resent the fact there is a Scottish Parliament yet Scottish politicians still have a major say in the UK Parliament. A recent poll in the Daily Telegraph actually showed majorities supporting the break up of the Union in England and Scotland.

I dont see Scotland breaking away anytime soon but the Scottish Parliament will without doubt continue to seek further powers and if it doesnt become completely independent it will eventually be totally controllling Scotland and just leaving the likes of foreign policy and defence to Westminster, independence within a loose Union if you like.
With the SNP looking in a decent position to win the Scottish Parliament elections in May its certainly an interesting time, I would love to see an SNP administration at Holyrood and then the Tories winning the next UK election, there would without doubt be friction between the two parliaments. David Camerons recent comments are also interesting, he knows the Tories have bugger all support in Scotland and that Labour relies hugely on its Scottish MP's....if Scotland was to leave the Union it would help the Tories in England enourmously. Would probably also help the Scottish Tories who currently suffer from being seen as an English party, without that baggage they would win more votes.


completely agree my Jocko buddy

also well spotted regarding the st. Georges flags (flegs) becomming more common at games where and English sports team are playing.
Although they are most common at 'England' cricket matches - though I think Englands players could come from Wales and scotland too
which makes it a GB or UK team.

I also go nuts when people over here in Ireland refer to 'the UK' when they most obv mean England.
I actually lose the rag for some reason and have to keep my annoyance to myself.

Tonto - thats prob very true, many a true word spoken in jest and all that.
Scots nationalism seems to have come on in leaps and bounds ever since Braveheart and Trainspotting ! (??)

 
..........

Lamh Dhearg Alba

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Re: UK's existence is at risk - Brown
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2007, 12:49:29 AM »
Behave yourselves, Braveheart has feck all to do with it! Scottish Political Nationalism has been on a nice steady rise since the 1950's and Im not having Mel Gibson claim any credit for it ;)


Possible further evidence of English unrest here;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6264823.stm

Chan fhada a-nist gus am bidh Alba saor a-rithist :D

An Fear Rua

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Re: UK's existence is at risk - Brown
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2007, 11:09:57 AM »
Question- just how much is it going to cost the English to break away from the scots?
Is the scottish econmy big enough to support itself?
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ziggysego

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Re: UK's existence is at risk - Brown
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2007, 12:22:44 PM »
Question- just how much is it going to cost the English to break away from the scots?
Is the scottish econmy big enough to support itself?

The North Sea Oil and Water (18 million profit per month), the Scottish can more than support itself. The question is, can England survive without Scotland?
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An Fear Rua

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Re: UK's existence is at risk - Brown
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2007, 12:32:33 PM »
Question- just how much is it going to cost the English to break away from the scots?
Is the scottish econmy big enough to support itself?

The North Sea Oil and Water (18 million profit per month), the Scottish can more than support itself. The question is, can England survive without Scotland?

Who owns those companies, Id have thought they were private ventures thanks to Maggie? Whats unemployment like in Scotland? The Scots have a lot more benefits over the english, including no tuition fees at uni, more free perscriptions and indeed no perscription drugs eg Aricept(theres been many lefgal cases in england wrt people being refused drugs due to cost issues), scotland provides free nursing care for the elderly etc.  It will take more than unsustanable Oil and gas to support an economy even with a few drastic changes.
Its Grim up North

Lamh Dhearg Alba

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Re: UK's existence is at risk - Brown
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2007, 12:48:53 PM »
Even arch Unionists over here accept that Scotland would have no bother surviving as an independent nation, in terms of natural resources etc Scotland is better off than many other already independent nations. Edinburgh and Aberdeen are strong financial cities. In the event of Scotland breaking away its widely accepted that Britain would retain some of the oilfields as part of the 'divorce settlement' but that the majority would go to Scotland. Its not all based on oil anyway, the Scottish Economy is already in a pretty decent state.

However like I said in an earlier post Scotland isnt likely to break away anytime soon.

magickingdom

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Re: UK's existence is at risk - Brown
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2007, 02:53:14 PM »
"The North Sea Oil and Water (18 million profit per month), the Scottish can more than support itself. The question is, can England survive without Scotland?"


ziggy, AIB makes about 5 times that per month. should that be billion?

ziggysego

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Re: UK's existence is at risk - Brown
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2007, 02:55:56 PM »
ziggy, AIB makes about 5 times that per month. should that be billion?

Probably. Number's were never my strongest point.
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Tonto

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Re: UK's existence is at risk - Brown
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2007, 04:16:51 PM »
I was just think there, that perhaps the break-up of the Union has been speeded up by the accelerating Union of Europe.

To a lot of people, I'm just guessing, the United Kingdom may now be just a unified state within a unified state and that just seems pointless.

Maybe if we left the EU, a sense of British identity, of being different would return and we could get back to normal. :)

lynchbhoy

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Re: UK's existence is at risk - Brown
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2007, 04:26:08 PM »
I was just think there, that perhaps the break-up of the Union has been speeded up by the accelerating Union of Europe.

To a lot of people, I'm just guessing, the United Kingdom may now be just a unified state within a unified state and that just seems pointless.

Maybe if we left the EU, a sense of British identity, of being different would return and we could get back to normal. :)

absolutely
bring back the empire, internment and the be specials while yer at it !

those were the days!
 :D
..........

Lamh Dhearg Alba

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Re: UK's existence is at risk - Brown
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2007, 01:34:47 AM »
Maybe if we left the EU, a sense of British identity, of being different would return and we could get back to normal. :)

A thoroughly depressing thought. What do you mean back to normal anyway, back to normal would be the 4 countries that make up these islands as independent nations and equal partners.

Fiodoir Ard Mhacha

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Re: UK's existence is at risk - Brown
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2007, 08:15:08 AM »
Maybe if we left the EU, a sense of British identity, of being different would return and we could get back to normal. :)

Now even you know that would be pointless, Tonto.

And it's not top of the agenda for any major political party in Britain despite their odd xenophobic mutterings.

Go figure, as the Yanks say.
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