Irish Swell British Army Ranks

[mylestheslasher]

A genuine question:  How would a person from Northern Ireland who joined the Irish Army be regarded in the unionist/loyalist community? - As a career soldier, someone committing treason or somewhere in the middle?

/Jim.

Deranged? I've never heard of anyone from such a background ever contemplating such a move, far less going ahead with it. As I see it, a military career appeals to some people, but doesn't to others. Obviously the latter would never join the IDF or any other army.

As for the former, if you want to be a soldier, why would you join the IDF to further your ambitions when the British armed forces are open to you? It's a bit like a young footballer deciding to play for e.g. St. Pats Athletic or Galway Utd or someone, in preference to an offer from Chelsea or Man Utd...

Even those who want to be in the armed forces, but disapprove of Iraq etc, can always find a branch of the Services where they're unlikely to be sent there - the Royal Navy, perhaps, or a specialist unit? Some people on this Board who disapprove of the British Army etc seem to think it is entirely composed of infantry squaddies or Paras, or Marines etc, who are the ones who usually see the dirty end of the action. However, there is a whole range of other specialist units whose duties vary enormously. Which, btw, is likely one of the attractions for Irish recruits, not really available in the IDF.

P.S. To answer your question directly, in the highly unlikely event of an NI Unionist deciding to join the IDF, I'd say the reaction would vary from (benign) bemusement, via suspicion, to outright hostility, depending on how hardline his background/neighbourhood is. But as I say, I really can't imagine it ever happening.

I see. Why would a unionist join an army thats only missions are as peace keepers when the can join an army that goes around the world slaughtering civilians, torturing prisoners, dropping cluster bombs and flouting all of the laws of war. If that is the case what does that say of the mindset of your average unionist?

[Evil Genius]

I see. Why would a unionist join an army thats only missions are as peace keepers when the can join an army that goes around the world slaughtering civilians, torturing prisoners, dropping cluster bombs and flouting all of the laws of war. If that is the case what does that say of the mindset of your average unionist?

Aye, because "slaughtering, torturing, bombing and flouting etc" is all the British armed forces ever do, all the time, every last one of the 100,000 of them, even when they're back in Catterick or Aldershot...

[mylestheslasher]

I see. Why would a unionist join an army thats only missions are as peace keepers when the can join an army that goes around the world slaughtering civilians, torturing prisoners, dropping cluster bombs and flouting all of the laws of war. If that is the case what does that say of the mindset of your average unionist?

Aye, because "slaughtering, torturing, bombing and flouting etc" is all the British armed forces ever do, all the time, every last one of the 100,000 of them, even when they're back in Catterick or Aldershot...

Throw your eyes up to heavan all you like EG. The fact is the British army has been involved in this type of things for centuries and continues to have been for the past decades. Not every soldier gets to break the geneva convention (although it sounds like many of them are only too happy to). You see as a soldiers you do as you are told. You sign away your right to have your own opinions and act on them. So if the commander says go drop a cluster bomb on that market because we think a "terrorist" might be there buying his mother a bag of apples, then the cluster bomb gets dropped. By joining the British army you put yourself in the position that you may be asked to carry out horrific deeds like these. By joining the Irish army you know that you will not be asked to do anything but act in a peacekeeping capacity. If you choose to join one over the other  then it says a lot about your character.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

Deranged? I've never heard of anyone from such a background ever contemplating such a move, far less going ahead with it. As I see it, a military career appeals to some people, but doesn't to others. Obviously the latter would never join the IDF or any other army.

As for the former, if you want to be a soldier, why would you join the IDF to further your ambitions when the British armed forces are open to you? It's a bit like a young footballer deciding to play for e.g. St. Pats Athletic or Galway Utd or someone, in preference to an offer from Chelsea or Man Utd...

Even those who want to be in the armed forces, but disapprove of Iraq etc, can always find a branch of the Services where they're unlikely to be sent there - the Royal Navy, perhaps, or a specialist unit? Some people on this Board who disapprove of the British Army etc seem to think it is entirely composed of infantry squaddies or Paras, or Marines etc, who are the ones who usually see the dirty end of the action. However, there is a whole range of other specialist units whose duties vary enormously. Which, btw, is likely one of the attractions for Irish recruits, not really available in the IDF.

P.S. To answer your question directly, in the highly unlikely event of an NI Unionist deciding to join the IDF, I'd say the reaction would vary from (benign) bemusement, via suspicion, to outright hostility, depending on how hardline his background/neighbourhood is. But as I say, I really can't imagine it ever happening.

I asked the questioned because I believe that the direct answer to my question is a lot less on the benign side and more towards hostility.  Joining an army of a foreign power!?!!?  How disloyal etc..  I think it's a point that many unionists should take on board before lecturing Irish people who have a similar reaction to people joining the British Army.  That's before we even talk about the emotiveness to those in the Republic who have relatives (very recent, in my case grandparents) who were at the receiving end of said British Army.

Also tbhe Irish Army have a very proud record in the field of peace-keeping.  Personally if I was inclined towards military service I'd rather be working in Chad with the Rangers and regular troops than illegally occupying Iraq.

I think anyone how doesn't consider the above emotiveness is arrogant and anyone who demeans the Irish peacekeeping contribution is ignorant.

/Jim.

[Roger]

As an outsider from the Irish that is on here the way I see it is that Irish people have joined the Army for centuries through choice; more Irish people have chosen to live in the UK than in the Republic of Ireland for years; they work in the UK, pay taxes in the UK, vote in the UK, work in the UK civil service, work in the UK government, support UK teams, watch UK television, have a UK culture.  The Irish are basically British but then when it comes to saying they are Irish they tend to think of themselves as a Nation with lots of anti-British stuff. It's denial and if it hurts their pocket then they delve more into the British culture and psyche. Wee moans about the Army are just more of the nonsense which they haven't really subscribed to or else moans from those that are deluded Shinner types.

I must remember not to shop in the Republic in the interests of patriotism 

[Jim_Murphy_74]

Wee moans about the Army are just more of the nonsense which they haven't really subscribed to or else moans from those that are deluded Shinner types.

You see there's the arrogance again...they are a multitude of (perfectly valid) reasons other than "nonsense" and "Shinner delusion" why an Irish person would have an issue with the British Army and those that join it but hey let's ignore that just because they have the temerity to shop in Tesco and watch Coronation Street.

And for the record Roger there is hell of a lot more to Irish culture and identity than being anti-British.

/Jim.

[man in black]

The Irish are basically British

Neither politically, socially, ethnically etc etc.
Lads stop feeding this troll.

[Roger]

You see there's the arrogance again...they are a multitude of (perfectly valid) reasons other than "nonsense" and "Shinner delusion" why an Irish person would have an issue with the British Army and those that join it but hey let's ignore that just because they have the temerity to shop in Tesco and watch Coronation Street.

I can understand why people have an issue with people joining the Army but not why Irish people in particular join it.  They've done it for years.

And for the record Roger there is hell of a lot more to Irish culture and identity than being anti-British.

A few made up sports heavily submerged in anti-British stuff, a cobbled together language hi-jacked by the most anti-British, and dressing up as leprechauns on St Patrick's (a Brit) day and getting pished to then sing traditional laments generally about how bad the Brits are.  Riverdance wasn't bad mind.

[Doogie Browser]

As an outsider from the Irish that is on here the way I see it is that Irish people have joined the Army for centuries through choice; more Irish people have chosen to live in the UK than in the Republic of Ireland for years; they work in the UK, pay taxes in the UK, vote in the UK, work in the UK civil service, work in the UK government, support UK teams, watch UK television, have a UK culture.  The Irish are basically British but then when it comes to saying they are Irish they tend to think of themselves as a Nation with lots of anti-British stuff. It's denial and if it hurts their pocket then they delve more into the British culture and psyche. Wee moans about the Army are just more of the nonsense which they haven't really subscribed to or else moans from those that are deluded Shinner types.

I must remember not to shop in the Republic in the interests of patriotism 

With respect what a load of rubbish Roge.
Watching Aston Villa on BBC1 makes me a brit then?  A lot of Irish people had to choose to live in the UK rather than Ireland because of the building boom post 1945, they went were work was available.  Irish history will show you that we have a history of migration and as a result hundreds of thousands of UK residents would claim Irish roots rather than British (I know this from my own epxeriences), their work ethic led them to where the work was and has established a massive Irish diaspora throughout the UK and indeed further afield  What were people to do?  Not work for UK companies or government?  Such a choice would then clearly identify them as bigoted or small minded.  
The Irish are def not 'basically British' indeed they have a culture respected and envied all around the world, we are proud of our identity and respect peoples right to be British also.  To say you are Irish is nothing to do with anti-britishness, far from it my friend it is a unique identity like Britishness, I am proud to be Irish and equally proud of my repsect for other cultures.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

A few made up sports heavily submerged in anti-British stuff, a cobbled together language hi-jacked by the most anti-British, and dressing up as leprechauns on St Patrick's (a Brit) day and getting pished to then sing traditional laments generally about how bad the Brits are.  Riverdance wasn't bad mind.

Wow ignorance to go with the arrogance. 

/Jim.

[nifan]

A few made up sports heavily submerged in anti-British stuff, a cobbled together language hi-jacked by the most anti-British, and dressing up as leprechauns on St Patrick's (a Brit) day and getting pished to then sing traditional laments generally about how bad the Brits are.  Riverdance wasn't bad mind.

Have to say thats fairly insulting stuff there Roger.
I know plenty who speak Irish fluently, and they are certainly not all anti british.

As for made up sports, all sports are made up ffs. Are you complaining about when they where made?

[full back]

A few made up sports heavily submerged in anti-British stuff, a cobbled together language hi-jacked by the most anti-British, and dressing up as leprechauns on St Patrick's (a Brit) day and getting pished to then sing traditional laments generally about how bad the Brits are.  Riverdance wasn't bad mind.

What a twat
Giving 'themmuns' a bad name

[the Deel Rover]

A few made up sports heavily submerged in anti-British stuff, a cobbled together language hi-jacked by the most anti-British, and dressing up as leprechauns on St Patrick's (a Brit) day and getting pished to then sing traditional laments generally about how bad the Brits are.  Riverdance wasn't bad mind.

Have to say thats fairly insulting stuff there Roger.
I know plenty who speak Irish fluently, and they are certainly not all anti british.

As for made up sports, all sports are made up ffs. Are you complaining about when they where made?

Your spot on there Nifan even though fairly insulting is putting it midly , then again he is a troll so i wouldn't bother with him too much

[Canalman]

Don't forget the fact that these solldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan can run around playing soldiers (with the obligatory bandanas and wrap around sunglasses) and come back treated like "heroes" while being pretty sure that they won't get hurt or killed. Casualty rates are by and large minimal.
Imo there wouldn't be the same rush "to arms" if the body bags were coming back by the planeload. A tad of the bullyboy element involved imo.

[Roger]

Have to say thats fairly insulting stuff there Roger.

I suppose it's a bit harsh but I just don't get the "Irish" culture that the "Irish" have.  I do see it as largely anti-British and feel totally outside it. Yet I see massive overlaps and to me it is just a British region in denial with some nasty bits bolted on.  I can't see why Irish people wouldn't join the Army as they have been doing it for years.  To talk about migration of workers and all that is fine.  I actually agree.  The people of these islands are so overlapped or interbred or whatever that any differences are diluted I don't see any ethnic differences or social differences beyond regional culture.   I do see a Political difference from those in the Republic of Ireland and others who shout as loudly as they can to try and demonstrate a difference though.

I know plenty who speak Irish fluently, and they are certainly not all anti british.

Fair point, but read what I wrote. Who is promoting most this cultural language and for what reason?

As for made up sports, all sports are made up ffs. Are you complaining about when they where made?

No but what was the reason for making them up? Most sports are made up for sports reasons.