Folks
I am interested in going to the Ireland v England game in Twickenham next year. It's the final six nations game of the tournament and is on Paddy's day so should be a good one.
Would anyone have any info on how/where to get tickets? Would I stand a better chance if I made enquiries/orders/requests now?
Anyone any idea on prices?
Thanks
Yes.
I think you need to be in the supporters club to get these. Alternatively you can spend hundreds of sterlings for a corporate package. I think the would be hard to get in London at the time of the match.
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 09, 2011, 11:31:27 PM
I think you need to be in the supporters club to get these. Alternatively you can spend hundreds of sterlings for a corporate package. I think the would be hard to get in London at the time of the match.
Supporters club don't get away tickets only rugby clubs. Generally you pay 70 pound for English home game hard enough to source. Would suggest you go through an agent to guarantee tickets.
http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/25402.php
QuoteIreland And O2 Ireland Wolfhounds Squads Announced
18 January 2012, 12:31 pm
By Editor
The Ireland squad for the 2012 RBS 6 Nations has been named
Head coach Declan Kidney has confirmed the squad for the upcoming RBS 6 Nations Championship which gets underway in a few weeks' time
The Ireland team management have today announced two squads ahead of the 2012 RBS 6 Nations and the upcoming O2 Ireland Wolfhounds game against England Saxons.
There are 24 players named in the Ireland senior squad, with six additional up-and-coming players named who will join the first week of Ireland camp in Limerick to train with the squad.
The 22-man O2 Ireland Wolfhounds squad includes several uncapped players as well as full internationals. The Ireland squad, from which the team to play Wales will be selected, will be announced on Monday, January 30 after the Wolfhounds game against the England Saxons.
Commenting on the announcement, Ireland head coach Declan Kidney said: "The Wolfhounds game gives myself and the other coaches one final chance to give games to players to see possible options before we settle on our matchday 22 for the opening game of the Championship.
"It also gives us the opportunity to have a closer look in training at some of the younger players, rather than bringing in more experienced players, who are very much still in the frame for selection.
"There have been some strong performances by players with the provinces going really well. It always gives the squad a good boost when we have teams with players playing well in Europe before we step back up into the international scene."
Talking about the start of the RBS 6 Nations, Kidney added: "It's a new tournament for us and for everybody involved, so irrespective of the highs and lows of the World Cup, it is a fresh and exciting challenge for us.
"The tournament begins what is big year for us, with a three Test tour to New Zealand to come in June and ranking points all important for the Rugby World Cup in 2015, but the Six Nations always stands out as high point."
IRELAND Training Squad (2012 RBS 6 Nations):
Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)
Shane Jennings (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)
Additional Players -
Ian Nagle (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
Tiernan O'Halloran (Galwegians/Connacht) *
Paddy McAllister (Ballynahinch/Ulster)*
Andrew Conway (Blackrock College/Leinster) *
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
O2 IRELAND WOLFHOUNDS Squad (v England Saxons):
Stephen Archer (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
Isaac Boss (Terenure College/Leinster)
Gavin Duffy (Galwegians/Connacht)
Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Chris Henry (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Denis Hurley (Cork Constitution/Munster)
David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster) *
Ian Keatley (Young Munster/Munster)
Ronan Loughney (Buccaneers/Connacht) *
Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster) *
Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
John Muldoon (Galwegians/Connacht)
Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin/Munster)
Eoin O'Malley (Old Belvedere/Leinster) *
Rhys Ruddock (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Mike Sherry (Garryowen/Munster) *
Nevin Spence (Ballynahinch/Ulster) *
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
Damien Varley (Garryowen/Munster)
Brett Wilkinson (Galwegians/Connacht) *
Not considered due to injury: Brian O'Driscoll, David Wallace, Darren Cave, Felix Jones, Jerry Flannery, Eoin Griffin *, Denis Leamy, Niall Ronan.
* Denotes uncapped player
No real surprises. It's a pity about Cave as I thought he would have had plenty to offer. Anyone know why Humphries isn't on the Wolfhound squad? I would have thought recent performances would have merited that at least!
Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Shane Jennings (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)
I despair.....
Those 7 should be put out to pasture in my opinion...
Put O'Gara out to Pasture? I suppose if you're not overly worried about winning it and want to develop someone else (Humphries?) but he's still one of the better out halves around. Surprised O'Mahoney is not even in the Wolfhounds squad. Edit, just saw he's in the 'plus 6' bunch. As is Zebo, which surprises me.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 18, 2012, 02:31:49 PM
Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Shane Jennings (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)
I despair.....
Those 7 should be put out to pasture in my opinion...
France, England, NZ, Australia & South Africa views the end of a World Cup as the beginning of a new four year era. We should be blooding players that might play in the next World Cup. The older guys have been great servants but we should be planning for the future rather than planning for the next 9 weeks only.
What a team:
1. Healy.........2. Best. .........3. Ross
........4. Ryan.........5. O'Connell
6. Ferris........8. Heaslip......7. O'Brien
.......9. Murray.......10. Sexton........
.......12. Trimble.....13. Bowe.........
11. Fitzgerald....................14. Earls
................15. Kearney.................
Nicely unbalanced team there Don't Matter.
Andrew Trimble would only be marginally more effective than John Hayes at inside centre. He can't pass the ball.
Quote from: Dont Matter on January 18, 2012, 02:39:47 PM
What a team:
1. Healy.........2. Best. .........3. Ross
........4. Ryan.........5. O'Connell
6. Ferris........8. Heaslip......7. O'Brien
.......9. Murray.......10. Sexton........
.......12. Trimble.....13. Bowe.........
11. Fitzgerald....................14. Earls
................15. Kearney.................
Fitsgerald despite good form is not in the squad.
Quote from: thewobbler on January 18, 2012, 02:55:09 PM
Nicely unbalanced team there Don't Matter.
Andrew Trimble would only be marginally more effective than John Hayes at inside centre. He can't pass the ball.
He's not there to pass.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 18, 2012, 02:55:31 PM
Fitsgerald despite good form is not in the squad.
:o Didn't actually look at the list, why hasn't he made it?
Edit: Oh he's on the Wolfhounds, still a chance he can get recalled.
If he's not there to pass, and he's (I assume) not there to kick, then you must see him as a super human battering ram.
I like Trimble as a winger. He's got patience, speed, and he's good in the tackle. But he doesn't have the speed of mind or speed of hand to play centre at club level, let alone at international level.
Typically conservative selection from Kidney. You'd think after the end of a World Cup he might think it's time to freshen things up a little.
I see the Welsh have thrown in 6 uncapped players into their squad despite having introduced a scatter of youngsters only last year.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 18, 2012, 02:33:31 PM
Put O'Gara out to Pasture? I suppose if you're not overly worried about winning it and want to develop someone else (Humphries?) but he's still one of the better out halves around. Surprised O'Mahoney is not even in the Wolfhounds squad. Edit, just saw he's in the 'plus 6' bunch. As is Zebo, which surprises me.
Do you think O'Gara's form has been good, anytime I have since Munster this year they have performed poorly and two late drop goals seems to have masked peoples objectivity. I don't think ROG is playing well and his presence in the squad I feel undermines Sexton, I am aware that alternatives aren't there but Kidney needs to be bold and look at someone like Ian Madigan who at 22 years of age is a better player either Sexton or O'Gara were at that age.
The squad smacks of conservatism...
I'm a big Rugby fan,but wouldn't be the most knowledeable.
How are the likes of Donnacha O Callaghan,Leo Cullen,Shane Jennings,Paddy Wallace,Gordon Darcy and co in ahead of
the likes of Dan Tuohy, Peter O'Mahony,Devin Toner,Ian Madigan,Fitzgerald etc???
At least he has the "excuse" of injuries to leave out Darren Cave, Nialll Ronan, Eoin Griffen and co ::)
He also has an excuse to play Earls at outside centre.
Will Kidney still be lining out Darcy and DOC at the RWC in 2015???
Bewildering.
Fly halves are like fine wines, they get better with age. It is a lot about experience. Who have Wales called up? Shingler! The guy whose only clip on youtube is of a spear tackle.
Quote from: Capt Pat on January 18, 2012, 04:39:15 PM
Fly halves are like fine wines, they get better with age. It is a lot about experience. Who have Wales called up? Shingler! The guy whose only clip on youtube is of a spear tackle.
Do you really believe that - I mean would you prefer Johnny Wilkinson 2003 or the 2011 model? Your st in the pocket and kick to the corners 10 maybe and yes certainly in O'Gara's case. He's had his day though and now it's time for him to move before it all catches up with him..
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 18, 2012, 04:43:11 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on January 18, 2012, 04:39:15 PM
Fly halves are like fine wines, they get better with age. It is a lot about experience. Who have Wales called up? Shingler! The guy whose only clip on youtube is of a spear tackle.
Do you really believe that - I mean would you prefer Johnny Wilkinson 2003 or the 2011 model? Your st in the pocket and kick to the corners 10 maybe and yes certainly in O'Gara's case. He's had his day though and now it's time for him to move before it all catches up with him..
Disagree to some extent. Certain players have had there day, Darcy, being one. However our abundance of fly-half options is not that long and Rog was a top class fly-half who for a year or two will be a top class replacement.
The word here is that we should sacrifice a possible Grand Slam in favour of "development" and "potential". I wonder were the naysayers would be when France kick us down the road with a team full of "potential".
You can excuse a developing team, you can't excuse an experienced team and that is what is going to happen this year...
Quote from: thewobbler on January 18, 2012, 03:24:59 PM
If he's not there to pass, and he's (I assume) not there to kick, then you must see him as a super human battering ram.
I like Trimble as a winger. He's got patience, speed, and he's good in the tackle. But he doesn't have the speed of mind or speed of hand to play centre at club level, let alone at international level.
I think he's well able for the position. You're underestimating his passing ability, as you say he has the speed and is good at breaking a tackle. A perfect foil for someone like Bowe outside.
In a position where we are short on options, I think he's worth a go.
Just seen on TV3 news there that that Marshall lad from Ulster didn't even make the Wolfhounds. I know Pienaar is ahead of him at the moment but he looks a good player.
Quote from: Dont Matter on January 18, 2012, 05:56:00 PM
Just seen on TV3 news there that that Marshall lad from Ulster didn't even make the Wolfhounds. I know Pienaar is ahead of him at the moment but he looks a good player.
Peter O'Mahony didn't even make the Wolfhounds!
Quote from: muppet on January 18, 2012, 06:06:01 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on January 18, 2012, 05:56:00 PM
Just seen on TV3 news there that that Marshall lad from Ulster didn't even make the Wolfhounds. I know Pienaar is ahead of him at the moment but he looks a good player.
Peter O'Mahony didn't even make the Wolfhounds!
:o Time to get the Kidney out campaign going.
Stall the digger lads, I made the same mistake. Mahoney is on the extended 6 nations squad, i.e. the extra 6 lads.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 18, 2012, 07:07:29 PM
Stall the digger lads, I made the same mistake. Mahoney is on the extended 6 nations squad, i.e. the extra 6 lads.
Do they hold the bags?
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 18, 2012, 03:44:58 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 18, 2012, 02:33:31 PM
Put O'Gara out to Pasture? I suppose if you're not overly worried about winning it and want to develop someone else (Humphries?) but he's still one of the better out halves around. Surprised O'Mahoney is not even in the Wolfhounds squad. Edit, just saw he's in the 'plus 6' bunch. As is Zebo, which surprises me.
Do you think O'Gara's form has been good, anytime I have since Munster this year they have performed poorly and two late drop goals seems to have masked peoples objectivity. I don't think ROG is playing well and his presence in the squad I feel undermines Sexton, I am aware that alternatives aren't there but Kidney needs to be bold and look at someone like Ian Madigan who at 22 years of age is a better player either Sexton or O'Gara were at that age.
The squad smacks of conservatism...
Munster are not playing well, but they are improving bit by bit. The forwards are starting to resemble a physical pack again, but Paul O'Connell and Ronan O'Gara are dragging them over the line. O'Gara is not going to give you anything new at this stage, but I've always felt his passing is underrated. His goalkicking and kicking out of hand are as good as usual for this time of year. I'm certainly not seeing a big drop off in form.
Having said that, if the view is to 2015, then yes, Ronan should be left concentrate on Munster. If you are trying to win a 6 nations though, he's still in the top 2 in Ireland. And his presence should not undermine Sexton, Sexton should use him as a yardstick. He needs to beat O'Gara out, not be given a bye.
Quote from: muppet on January 18, 2012, 07:13:13 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 18, 2012, 07:07:29 PM
Stall the digger lads, I made the same mistake. Mahoney is on the extended 6 nations squad, i.e. the extra 6 lads.
Do they hold the bags?
Literally, the tackle bags :).
But they are not 'forgotten men' at least. I'd have been shocked if O'Mahony wasn't mentioned at all. He's been Munster's best player all year.
Dinny if Sexton got injured after 5 mins against Wales would you seriously trust Madigen to come on and do a job because I wouldnt. The lad has talent but isnt ready for that level for a few reasons.
a) He hasnt and doesnt place kick when playing for Leinster and to ask him to do that at international test level is too much at this stage.
b) His field kicking isnt at an international level either.
c)His defence isnt good enough yet either, even worse than O Gara if thats possible.
Send him to the wolfhounds and see where he is at this time next year but it would be foolish to be in the 24 man squad for this years competition. Same applies to O Malley for that matter.
As Wales have shown in the last 18 months it doesnt take 4 years for a team to develop. I dont get this we should be looking at the 2015 world cup, we dont know how players are going to be playing this time next year never mind 4 years time.
Its time enough trying to get a squad together for the world cup after the next lions tour. For now we should be trying to develop the team and introducing new players as we progress whilst still be competitive in 6 nations and summer tours.
Other than Tuohy, Henry and Fitzgerald I dont think Deccie has omitted anyone of note.
I know the arguments against but for once I would just wish a coach would go out on a limb back himself and do something different. Australia and Wales have a similar talent pool they give young players an opportunity. Our coaches seem too obsessed with politics, experience and conservatism. I couldn't a f**k about the 2015 World Cup at this stage but that squad won't win a Championship but if we develop over two years it could damn win one in two or three years time. Irish rugby has got many things right but our international selection policy is not one of them.
In fairness to Kidney this is the year to be conservative, a good 6 nations and a (unlikely) win against the ABs and we could end up at 4th in the world rankings and save ourselves a huge amount of trouble in 2015. It's a long shot but a much smarter aim than developing players at this stage for four years time
Dinny whilst I see where u are coming from Kidney was never going to make wholesale changes, he just isnt the type. I think he believes in evolution rather than revolution.
In fairness he has brought younger players in gradually since his reign began with players like healy, o brien, murray and sexton becoming regulars since he took over. I was hoping this year that this would continue with the likes of Ryan, Toner, Tuohy and Cave making there way into the first team squad but it doesnt look like its going to happen other than Ryan.
My biggest gripe with the Kidney reign is the failure to develop a pair of centres in anticipation of the demise of Darcy and O Driscoll. He has had 3/4 years to look at this and we go into this years championship with the likelyhood that a winger is going to play outside centre and a player well past his best or a player who has never confinced at this level playing inside centre beside him.
There are players like Spence, Marshall, O Malley and Griffen coming through but none of these are ready yet. It would have been interesting if Cave would have been fit if he would have given him a chance as he is currently the best 13 in Ireland.
Fergas McFadden is a strange one. He looks to have all required for inside centre, pace,strength, kicking game and decent if not brilliant hands. Yet his club and international coach see him as prodominantly a winger/outside centre. Could they both be wrong? Its all the more baffling when u see that it is a guy that hasnt been performing for over 2 years that is keeping him out of the 12 position for both club and country.
In fairness, the same sort of criticism can be levelled at Kidney regarding his time at Munster. He never brought in new lads, barring necessity in the case of Dennis Hurley or whomever. He certainly did not groom replacements for the pack, O'Gara etc. McGahan has been criticised for the performance of the first team, and certainly Laurie Fisher was a mistake as Forwards coach. But I don't think we'd have seen the progress of Peter O'Mahoney, Simon Zebo, Danny Barnes, Steven Archer, Mike Sherry, Ian Nagle, Luke O'Dea, Billy Holland and others under Deccy.
QuoteThere are players like Spence, Marshall, O Malley and Griffen coming through but none of these are ready yet. It would have been interesting if Cave would have been fit if he would have given him a chance as he is currently the best 13 in Ireland.
Who deems them not ready? I like all four players, see buckets load of potential, they have all played HEC so are trusted by their provincial coach but instead as you state we will probably see D'Arcy and Earls in the centre. This is why I despair, I see the same mistakes over the last 7 years, Gatland was the last Irish coach to truly give youth a chance and that gave us some of greatest names in Irish rugby, he is doing a far better job at Wales than Kidney is at Ireland. Do Wales have better players?
I believe in giving youth a chance, it's just my own coaching philosophy no matter the sport. The young have no fear...
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 19, 2012, 09:43:07 AM
I know the arguments against but for once I would just wish a coach would go out on a limb back himself and do something different.
You must have had a load of time for Lievermont then.
Quote from: trileacman on January 19, 2012, 03:48:29 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 19, 2012, 09:43:07 AM
I know the arguments against but for once I would just wish a coach would go out on a limb back himself and do something different.
You must have had a load of time for Lievermont then.
Funny enough I did, he won a Grand Slam and got his team to a WC final they should have a chance to win only for some weak refereeing at the end. The media made him out to be madder than he was, this guy also won an u21 World Cup final and got Dax I think promoted to the Top 14. Unfortunately for him the pressure in France is to win the GS every year, Kiddinme doesn't have that pressure period.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on January 19, 2012, 01:13:21 PM
In fairness to Kidney this is the year to be conservative, a good 6 nations and a (unlikely) win against the ABs and we could end up at 4th in the world rankings and save ourselves a huge amount of trouble in 2015. It's a long shot but a much smarter aim than developing players at this stage for four years time
Is this why Gavin Duffy is being tried out in the Wolfhounds?
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 19, 2012, 02:44:41 PM
QuoteThere are players like Spence, Marshall, O Malley and Griffen coming through but none of these are ready yet. It would have been interesting if Cave would have been fit if he would have given him a chance as he is currently the best 13 in Ireland.
Who deems them not ready? I like all four players, see buckets load of potential, they have all played HEC so are trusted by their provincial coach but instead as you state we will probably see D'Arcy and Earls in the centre. This is why I despair, I see the same mistakes over the last 7 years, Gatland was the last Irish coach to truly give youth a chance and that gave us some of greatest names in Irish rugby, he is doing a far better job at Wales than Kidney is at Ireland. Do Wales have better players?
I believe in giving youth a chance, it's just my own coaching philosophy no matter the sport. The young have no fear...
Marshall is currently 3rd choice inside centre at Ulster behind Wallace and Whitten
Spence is currently 2nd choice outside centre at Ulster behind Cave
O Malley is currently 3rd choice outside centre at Leinster behind Drico and McFadden
Griffen is in his first full year as first choice at Connaught
Besides this Marshall has been out injured for a long spell and is only returning for the Ulster Ravens tonight. Spence has also been out for a period and is only returning to the senior squad tomorrow as a sub.
U want to put these guys in straight away when most of them arent even first choice at club level. What happens of they were taken in and it went horribly wrong. It would set these players back years and leave it unlikely that we would see them in a green shirt for some time to come.
IMO bring them in gently, wolfhounds this year, possibly autumn internationals for some of them and then see where they are this time next year.
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 20, 2012, 09:31:52 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 19, 2012, 02:44:41 PM
QuoteThere are players like Spence, Marshall, O Malley and Griffen coming through but none of these are ready yet. It would have been interesting if Cave would have been fit if he would have given him a chance as he is currently the best 13 in Ireland.
Who deems them not ready? I like all four players, see buckets load of potential, they have all played HEC so are trusted by their provincial coach but instead as you state we will probably see D'Arcy and Earls in the centre. This is why I despair, I see the same mistakes over the last 7 years, Gatland was the last Irish coach to truly give youth a chance and that gave us some of greatest names in Irish rugby, he is doing a far better job at Wales than Kidney is at Ireland. Do Wales have better players?
I believe in giving youth a chance, it's just my own coaching philosophy no matter the sport. The young have no fear...
Marshall is currently 3rd choice inside centre at Ulster behind Wallace and Whitten
Spence is currently 2nd choice outside centre at Ulster behind Cave
O Malley is currently 3rd choice outside centre at Leinster behind Drico and McFadden
Griffen is in his first full year as first choice at Connaught
Besides this Marshall has been out injured for a long spell and is only returning for the Ulster Ravens tonight. Spence has also been out for a period and is only returning to the senior squad tomorrow as a sub.
U want to put these guys in straight away when most of them arent even first choice at club level. What happens of they were taken in and it went horribly wrong. It would set these players back years and leave it unlikely that we would see them in a green shirt for some time to come.
IMO bring them in gently, wolfhounds this year, possibly autumn internationals for some of them and then see where they are this time next year.
Exactly if they aren't good enough for their club coach why are they deemed good enough for the international side.
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 20, 2012, 09:31:52 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 19, 2012, 02:44:41 PM
QuoteThere are players like Spence, Marshall, O Malley and Griffen coming through but none of these are ready yet. It would have been interesting if Cave would have been fit if he would have given him a chance as he is currently the best 13 in Ireland.
Who deems them not ready? I like all four players, see buckets load of potential, they have all played HEC so are trusted by their provincial coach but instead as you state we will probably see D'Arcy and Earls in the centre. This is why I despair, I see the same mistakes over the last 7 years, Gatland was the last Irish coach to truly give youth a chance and that gave us some of greatest names in Irish rugby, he is doing a far better job at Wales than Kidney is at Ireland. Do Wales have better players?
I believe in giving youth a chance, it's just my own coaching philosophy no matter the sport. The young have no fear...
Marshall is currently 3rd choice inside centre at Ulster behind Wallace and Whitten
Spence is currently 2nd choice outside centre at Ulster behind Cave
O Malley is currently 3rd choice outside centre at Leinster behind Drico and McFadden
Griffen is in his first full year as first choice at Connaught
Besides this Marshall has been out injured for a long spell and is only returning for the Ulster Ravens tonight. Spence has also been out for a period and is only returning to the senior squad tomorrow as a sub.
U want to put these guys in straight away when most of them arent even first choice at club level. What happens of they were taken in and it went horribly wrong. It would set these players back years and leave it unlikely that we would see them in a green shirt for some time to come.
IMO bring them in gently, wolfhounds this year, possibly autumn internationals for some of them and then see where they are this time next year.
Is it not Marshall the Scrum Half who is only behind Pienaar? Young and bags of potential I don't think it would do any harm to have him and Conor Murray both in there for a straight shoot out at the no. 9 geansai!
That's Paul Marshall ur thinking of, he is in his mid 20s I think, playing well as an impact sub for Ulster but will never make an international imo.
I'm talking about Luke Marshall, young inside centre they r raving about at Ulster. Bags of potential but nowhere near ready for international stage.
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 20, 2012, 09:31:52 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 19, 2012, 02:44:41 PM
QuoteThere are players like Spence, Marshall, O Malley and Griffen coming through but none of these are ready yet. It would have been interesting if Cave would have been fit if he would have given him a chance as he is currently the best 13 in Ireland.
Who deems them not ready? I like all four players, see buckets load of potential, they have all played HEC so are trusted by their provincial coach but instead as you state we will probably see D'Arcy and Earls in the centre. This is why I despair, I see the same mistakes over the last 7 years, Gatland was the last Irish coach to truly give youth a chance and that gave us some of greatest names in Irish rugby, he is doing a far better job at Wales than Kidney is at Ireland. Do Wales have better players?
I believe in giving youth a chance, it's just my own coaching philosophy no matter the sport. The young have no fear...
Marshall is currently 3rd choice inside centre at Ulster behind Wallace and Whitten
Spence is currently 2nd choice outside centre at Ulster behind Cave
O Malley is currently 3rd choice outside centre at Leinster behind Drico and McFadden
Griffen is in his first full year as first choice at Connaught
Besides this Marshall has been out injured for a long spell and is only returning for the Ulster Ravens tonight. Spence has also been out for a period and is only returning to the senior squad tomorrow as a sub.
U want to put these guys in straight away when most of them arent even first choice at club level. What happens of they were taken in and it went horribly wrong. It would set these players back years and leave it unlikely that we would see them in a green shirt for some time to come.
IMO bring them in gently, wolfhounds this year, possibly autumn internationals for some of them and then see where they are this time next year.
This argument is why Mike Ross took so long to come through. This argument would see Sean Cronin out of the squad.
Quote from: muppet on January 22, 2012, 03:11:19 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 20, 2012, 09:31:52 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 19, 2012, 02:44:41 PM
QuoteThere are players like Spence, Marshall, O Malley and Griffen coming through but none of these are ready yet. It would have been interesting if Cave would have been fit if he would have given him a chance as he is currently the best 13 in Ireland.
Who deems them not ready? I like all four players, see buckets load of potential, they have all played HEC so are trusted by their provincial coach but instead as you state we will probably see D'Arcy and Earls in the centre. This is why I despair, I see the same mistakes over the last 7 years, Gatland was the last Irish coach to truly give youth a chance and that gave us some of greatest names in Irish rugby, he is doing a far better job at Wales than Kidney is at Ireland. Do Wales have better players?
I believe in giving youth a chance, it's just my own coaching philosophy no matter the sport. The young have no fear...
Marshall is currently 3rd choice inside centre at Ulster behind Wallace and Whitten
Spence is currently 2nd choice outside centre at Ulster behind Cave
O Malley is currently 3rd choice outside centre at Leinster behind Drico and McFadden
Griffen is in his first full year as first choice at Connaught
Besides this Marshall has been out injured for a long spell and is only returning for the Ulster Ravens tonight. Spence has also been out for a period and is only returning to the senior squad tomorrow as a sub.
U want to put these guys in straight away when most of them arent even first choice at club level. What happens of they were taken in and it went horribly wrong. It would set these players back years and leave it unlikely that we would see them in a green shirt for some time to come.
IMO bring them in gently, wolfhounds this year, possibly autumn internationals for some of them and then see where they are this time next year.
This argument is why Mike Ross took so long to come through. This argument would see Sean Cronin out of the squad.
Cronin was a first class/ first choice hooker at Connaught and got his call up to Ireland A and eventually Ireland. Unlike the fellas above he is second fiddle to a foreigner at Leinster not an Irishman. At any other province, except Ulster, he would probably be the first choice.
Mike Ross wasnt deemed good enough at munster and he had IQ players ahead of him so he went over to Harliquins and improved himself as a player and came back and became first choice at Leinster and Ireland.
Dont think this is really relevant in the argument regarding players being ready to play for their country when they are not first choice for their clubs.
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 22, 2012, 05:58:35 PM
Mike Ross wasnt deemed good enough at munster and he had IQ players ahead of him so he went over to Harliquins and improved himself as a player and came back and became first choice at Leinster and Ireland.
Dont think this is really relevant in the argument regarding players being ready to play for their country when they are not first choice for their clubs.
Gordon D'Arcy and Paddy Wallace are first choice for their provinces, but I would still rather O'Malley, Cave or Spence making the squad. O'Mahoney actually is first choice for his province but is a bag holder for Ireland when he should be playing for the Wolfhounds. Ross only started 8 games in his first year (09/10) when he arrived at Leinster. I believe that thinking held us back badly and we played Hayes and Buckley too long.
The selections of the Provincial managers are not necessarily the best barometer for the future of the Irish team.
So you want one of 3 outside centres playing at inside centre??? Spence proved earlier in the season when playing 12 for Ulster that a very good player playing in the wrong position turns them into a very average player. Inside centre and outside centre are completely different position with different skill sets.
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 22, 2012, 08:56:12 PM
So you want one of 3 outside centres playing at inside centre??? Spence proved earlier in the season when playing 12 for Ulster that a very good player playing in the wrong position turns them into a very average player. Inside centre and outside centre are completely different position with different skill sets.
I am talking about bringing young players into the squad, relax.
i can see that but u cant bring all 3 players in who play in the same position and not have any players in another position.
Add to this that Cave is currently out for 6 wks and Spence is only back after 6 wks out and ur options are becoming more limited.
Im all for picking young talented players but picking young players for the sake of picking young players I am not, especially when they are not ready imo.
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 22, 2012, 10:58:08 PM
i can see that but u cant bring all 3 players in who play in the same position and not have any players in another position.
Add to this that Cave is currently out for 6 wks and Spence is only back after 6 wks out and ur options are becoming more limited.
Im all for picking young talented players but picking young players for the sake of picking young players I am not, especially when they are not ready imo.
QuoteI would still rather O'Malley, Cave or Spence making the squad
Sat 4th Feb 12
14:30
France
v
Italy
Stade de France
Sat 4th Feb 12
17:00
Scotland
v
England
Murrayfield
Sun 5th Feb 12
15:00
Ireland
v
Wales
Aviva Stadium
More
Sat 11th Feb 12
16:00
Italy
v
England
Stadio Olimpico
Sat 11th Feb 12
20:00
France
v
Ireland
Stade de France
Sun 12th Feb 12
15:00
Wales
v
Scotland
Millennium Stadium
Sat 25th Feb 12
13:30
Ireland
v
Italy
Aviva Stadium
Sat 25th Feb 12
16:00
England
v
Wales
Twickenham
Sun 26th Feb 12
15:00
Scotland
v
France
Murrayfield
Sat 10th Mar 12
14:30
Wales
v
Italy
Millennium Stadium
Sat 10th Mar 12
17:00
Ireland
v
Scotland
Aviva Stadium
Sun 11th Mar 12
15:00
France
v
England
Stade de France
Sat 17th Mar 12
12:30
Italy
v
Scotland
Stadio Olimpico
Sat 17th Mar 12
14:45
Wales
v
France
Millennium Stadium
Sat 17th Mar 12
17:00
England
v
Ireland
Twickenham
Be some Paddy's day if they win, friend has tickets for it!!
Quote from: muppet on January 22, 2012, 10:46:16 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 22, 2012, 08:56:12 PM
So you want one of 3 outside centres playing at inside centre??? Spence proved earlier in the season when playing 12 for Ulster that a very good player playing in the wrong position turns them into a very average player. Inside centre and outside centre are completely different position with different skill sets.
I am talking about bringing young players into the squad, relax.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2012/0130/ireland.html
Seems you got your wish muppet. Try not to be as hard on Kidney the next time. ;)
IRELAND Team & Replacements (v Wales, RBS 6 Nations Championship 2012, Aviva Stadium, Sunday, February 5th, kick-off 3pm):
15 -Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) Captain
6 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)
Replacements:
16 -Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
18 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
19 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
DOC starts? Wow
I'm not one for wholesale changes, but as team selections go, if that was any more conservative it would be fascist. Kidney's definitely on a results driven bonus.
If Jamie Roberts plays, we might as well move Ferris into the centre, for he'll run clean over the top of our pair.
Starting where he left off then so. Dislike Kearny as i think he is a one dimensional player but he's in flying form so good enough to have him there. Bowe is off form though and on his way out of Ospreys, one of the closest to being dropped and I hope a mediocre preformance on sunday will see him dropped (not wishing him ill, just mean a change wouldn't hurt). Don't like Trimble as a winger, scoring of late but is not the main player on that Ulster team, would have liked to try Zebo or McFadden (two in form players). Earls is grand in the centre, played well when Munster trampled Northhampton but I don't know how D'Arcy can be persisted with at centre. Barely Leinsters first choice anymore.
Murray/ Sexton pick themselves and if we win it will be these two who will carry us over the line.
Happy with the front row.
O'Callaghan is the worst pick of the lot of them, clearly Kidney's rational was to have Cullen and in his absence to punt for the old reliable Donncha. As of now Ryan and O'Callaghan are on equal footing and with Ryan being the younger it should be his shirt. Back row is grand. Would prefer if we could have an out and out 7 instead of playing two 6's but sure what can we do.
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on February 01, 2012, 01:32:41 PM
IRELAND Team & Replacements (v Wales, RBS 6 Nations Championship 2012, Aviva Stadium, Sunday, February 5th, kick-off 3pm):
15 -Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) Captain
6 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)
Replacements:
16 -Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
18 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
19 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
When was the last time (for example) Ronan O'Gara played for Cork Con?
They usually only play with their clubs coming back from an injury. Paul O'connell played with Munsters coming back from his injury, and Flannery usually gets a game or two in with Shannon on his way back.
i have Wales down to do the slam this year.
Anyone expect there be much difference to what we saw in NZ a few months ago?
Quote from: thejuice on February 01, 2012, 02:15:16 PM
i have Wales down to do the slam this year.
Anyone expect there be much difference to what we saw in NZ a few months ago?
No. I'm amazed at the seemingly unanimous view among the Irish pundits that that was just an aberration. We didn't play well that day. Wales ambushed us. That couldn't happen again, etc.
Quote from: thejuice on February 01, 2012, 02:15:16 PM
i have Wales down to do the slam this year.
France have to be favoured. By far the most talented squad overall and finally they seem to have some competent coaches in charge that aren't despised by the players.
Even with Lièvremont in charge they probably should have beaten the All-Blacks the World Cup final.
Wales are missing 7 of the team that beat Ireland hence Ireland are favourites.
However that Irish team depresses me, in particular the centre partnership and Donnacha O'Callaghan. At least O'Mahony is on the bench and I have a lot of sympathy for Donnacha Ryan.
If Jamie Roberts is fit to start for Wales, our centre partnership are in big bother. Earls has proven on many occassions that he is not a centre The selection of DOC is quite astounding - its hardly a form selection. Its a very conservative and frustrating selection by Kidney - no surprise I suppose :(
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on February 01, 2012, 03:14:13 PM
If Jamie Roberts is fit to start for Wales, our centre partnership are in big bother. Earls has proven on many occassions that he is not a centre The selection of DOC is quite astounding - its hardly a form selection. Its a very conservative and frustrating selection by Kidney - no surprise I suppose :(
That's what I was thinking about our centres. The big Welsh crash ball centre will be a big problem for either of them bucks.
But who could play second row? Donnacha Ryan? Devin Toner?
D'arcy must have dirt on Kidney....ffs.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 01, 2012, 03:15:39 PM
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on February 01, 2012, 03:14:13 PM
If Jamie Roberts is fit to start for Wales, our centre partnership are in big bother. Earls has proven on many occassions that he is not a centre The selection of DOC is quite astounding - its hardly a form selection. Its a very conservative and frustrating selection by Kidney - no surprise I suppose :(
That's what I was thinking about our centres. The big Welsh crash ball centre will be a big problem for either of them bucks.
But who could play second row? Donnacha Ryan? Devin Toner?
Kidney is caught between the Irish rugby media demanding a win, hence DOC's experience ahead of Ryan, versus an eye on the future which would see that call the other way round. Surely it would have been better to start Ryan with the experienced player available to come in when necessary. The Leo Cullen comments are delusional, Cullen is now 34, older than POC and DOC. He has never been a starter for Ireland and was never going to make it at this stage.
But I don't think Donnacha Ryan is an international second row either. I think we have an issue there. Ryan will do a job for you, but he's not a spring chicken, and he's not really the future either I'd say. Devin Toner and Ian Nagle are probably the longer term bets.
2nd rows don't come into their prime until late 20s early 30s. Ryan is ok but his development has been held back by staying at Munster but he is on current form better than DOC. Dan Touhy would be my choice, a hardy abrasive boy who would flourish at International level and has been in good form for Ulster. Toner I have high hopes for but is 2/3 years away. Nagle is highly rated but needs to leave Munster, he hasn't even started HEC ffs, so the jury alas is very much out on that lad.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 01, 2012, 03:15:39 PM
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on February 01, 2012, 03:14:13 PM
If Jamie Roberts is fit to start for Wales, our centre partnership are in big bother. Earls has proven on many occassions that he is not a centre The selection of DOC is quite astounding - its hardly a form selection. Its a very conservative and frustrating selection by Kidney - no surprise I suppose :(
That's what I was thinking about our centres. The big Welsh crash ball centre will be a big problem for either of them bucks.
But who could play second row? Donnacha Ryan? Devin Toner?
Based on the squad thats picked, I would currently have Ryan in front of DOC. Personally I would love to see Dan Touhy in there but Kidney's selections are way to conservative for that to happen unfortunately.
Good call on Touhy. Forgot about him, but I'd say I'll be reminded in April in Thomond Park. I see what you are saying about Ryan, but I'm not so sure he's a better second row than O'Callaghan. Ryan seems to do most of his good work as the 'third' second rower, i.e. a hybrid number 6.
I know feck all about rugby and even less about the unseen stuff that the forwards get up to. A few years ago as an experiment I decided to pick what I thought was a useless grunt and watch him for the whole match to see what he did that was useful, if anything. I picked DOC as I thought he saw the least amount of ball of any player and thus was the least important.
In fairness to him I was amazed at the amount of tackles he made and how hard and often he hit the opposition via rucks, mauls & tackles etc and how often he was the first or second forward to the breakdown. The rugby connoisseurs here will see that as an amateur analysis, which it is, but it is the best this Gaa man can come up with.
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 22, 2012, 08:56:12 PM
So you want one of 3 outside centres playing at inside centre??? Spence proved earlier in the season when playing 12 for Ulster that a very good player playing in the wrong position turns them into a very average player. Inside centre and outside centre are completely different position with different skill sets.
What would be the difference?
lol @ Kidney
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2012, 04:28:12 PM
I know feck all about rugby and even less about the unseen stuff that the forwards get up to. A few years ago as an experiment I decided to pick what I thought was a useless grunt and watch him for the whole match to see what he did that was useful, if anything. I picked DOC as I thought he saw the least amount of ball of any player and thus was the least important.
In fairness to him I was amazed at the amount of tackles he made and how hard and often he hit the opposition via rucks, mauls & tackles etc and how often he was the first or second forward to the breakdown. The rugby connoisseurs here will see that as an amateur analysis, which it is, but it is the best this Gaa man can come up with.
It takes good discipline to do that Muppet as it's very easy get distracted by the momentum of the game.
DOC has always had a high work-rate and compliments a ball carrying 2nd row well, his role as defined by Gary Longwell would be a road sweeper and every team needs them i.e Guys committed to securing ruck ball. However this is only one function and his other roles, ball winner at 2, defensive pillar at the ruck, restarts and scrummaging I think his standards have dropped and even though not a ball carrier he is not carrying any at all. If his work-rate drops at all and I'm sure his Munster stats haven't been good hence Ryan is selected ahead of at merit when it was just the two of them vying for the 2nd row then is selection is one out of pure conservatism, putting faith in what you know and not form.
The team has mostly picked itself. Knowing Kidney, he'll wait till the Autumn Internationals before making experimental selections. Not sure about Earls generally. He drops and spills more than he should.
Darcy lacks the smash factor at #12 that Jamie Roberts brings to Wales.
The last time against Wales, Ireland were completely over reliant on Ferris and O'Brien as crash runners. Once they were nullified, there was no one who else who could drive with it.
Too often Ireland tend to pass it from sideline to sideline, but never actually gaining much ground.
If only Kevin Maggs was still around!
Id just echo what most people have been saying. Other than the centre positions and one lock, the team more or less picks itself. Its these 3 positions that disappoints me.
For me Ryan has been playing out of his skin this season, looking very dynamic and completely outplaying DOC. Can not believe Deccie has got with him.
Not surprised but still disappointed by the centre pairing. Once upon a time Darcy was a dinky, tricky, fast centre feared around the world. Those days are well gone. At this stage he offers nothing in attack and very little in defence. He is not the Jamie Roberts type 12 nor the Matt Giteau 2nd 5/8th creative centre. Paddy Wallace may not be the answer either but at least he may provide some creative spark that Darcy definitely lacks. I dont think Sexton and Wallace have started a competitve match together and it would be interesting to see how they would co exist.
13 is a tricky one. If Darren Cave had of been fit I would have went for him ( deccie wouldnt ) as he is the form 13 in Ireland. As he is out it has come down to a straight fight between Earls and McFadden. I dont think Earls will ever make a centre for various reasons whilst McFadden has many of the attributes necessary. The only reason I think he hasnt went for him is because he hasnt set the world alight in this position for either Leinster or Ireland. Hopefully next year we will have Cave and O Mally fighting for this position.
Quote from: andoireabu on February 01, 2012, 04:38:13 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 22, 2012, 08:56:12 PM
So you want one of 3 outside centres playing at inside centre??? Spence proved earlier in the season when playing 12 for Ulster that a very good player playing in the wrong position turns them into a very average player. Inside centre and outside centre are completely different position with different skill sets.
What would be the difference?
12 needs good hands, good kicking game, good rugby brain and to act as the 2nd creative spark in the team after the flyhalf. BOD is the exception to this in that he is a 13 with these attributes but alot of the time he seems to play 12 anyway. Nevin Spence played at 12 earlier in the season for Ulster and was completely lost in the position.
13 generally attack in the wider channel and need to be quicker, stronger and more dynamic imo.
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 01, 2012, 09:24:29 PM
Quote from: andoireabu on February 01, 2012, 04:38:13 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 22, 2012, 08:56:12 PM
So you want one of 3 outside centres playing at inside centre??? Spence proved earlier in the season when playing 12 for Ulster that a very good player playing in the wrong position turns them into a very average player. Inside centre and outside centre are completely different position with different skill sets.
What would be the difference?
12 needs good hands, good kicking game, good rugby brain and to act as the 2nd creative spark in the team after the flyhalf. BOD is the exception to this in that he is a 13 with these attributes but alot of the time he seems to play 12 anyway. Nevin Spence played at 12 earlier in the season for Ulster and was completely lost in the position.
13 generally attack in the wider channel and need to be quicker, stronger and more dynamic imo.
What you describe there for 12 is a 2nd 5/8. Gordon D'Arcy has no kicking game, is not creative and his hands wouldn't be top class either yet he has been excellent for Leinster and Ireland until 2 years ago when his consistency started to disappear.
Darcy was really a 13 playing in the 12 jersey. O Driscoll was always the creative spark in the team and did all the kicking from hand in the midfield. The 2 interchanged that much I wouldnt have called Darcy an out and out 12.
That is why I fear him and Earls on Sunday. Over the last year any momentum we have had in open played died when it went into midfield. There was no variation, no line breaks, no momentum. With a creative spark beside him Earls may provide these running lines and bring others in the back line into play. Unfortunately Darcy isnt that creative spark.
The thing that annoys me most that if BOD had of been fit there would have been no changes from that awful performance in September. Its a good job Wales have plenty of injuries.
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 01, 2012, 10:18:24 PM
Darcy was really a 13 playing in the 12 jersey. O Driscoll was always the creative spark in the team and did all the kicking from hand in the midfield. The 2 interchanged that much I wouldnt have called Darcy an out and out 12.
That is why I fear him and Earls on Sunday. Over the last year any momentum we have had in open played died when it went into midfield. There was no variation, no line breaks, no momentum. With a creative spark beside him Earls may provide these running lines and bring others in the back line into play. Unfortunately Darcy isnt that creative spark.
The thing that annoys me most that if BOD had of been fit there would have been no changes from that awful performance in September. Its a good job Wales have plenty of injuries.
Are you not contradicting yourself, you said they were completely different positions with different skill sets yet D'Arcy and O'Driscoll are inter-changeable?
There is no right and wrong answer - it all depends on your game plan and what you expect from your 12 in particular i.e footballer or bish bosh get us over that gain-line. 13 though for me has to be quick and a good defender, if his channel gets exploited you will be up sh*t creek hence my worry over Earls...
Donnacha Ryan is not happy not to be playing...
(http://omg.wthax.org/DRyan.gif)
Tough looking boyo :)
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 02, 2012, 10:47:32 AM
Tough looking boyo :)
He is, I like him tough boyo indeed, remember a game a couple of years ago between Naas and Sunday's well and there was melee (supporters involved and all.) He was coaching Well and jumped into the middle of it, peace quickly ensued.
Darcy and Drico in their prime was an exceptional set of circumstances that u dont see too often at international level. It was a matter of trying to fit in 2 world class players with no real alternative at 12. Drico was/is also one of few who could play international rugby in both positions.
Darcy is neither a crash ball centre ala Roberts or 2nd 5/8 ala Giteau. He is a poor 13 at this stage.
James Downey just signed a 2 year deal back with Munster. He'd be solid enough defensively himself.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 02, 2012, 10:52:58 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 02, 2012, 10:47:32 AM
Tough looking boyo :)
He is, I like him tough boyo indeed, remember a game a couple of years ago between Naas and Sunday's well and there was melee (supporters involved and all.) He was coaching Well and jumped into the middle of it, peace quickly ensued.
how many derrytreask subs received suspensions for this?
dont start me on the selection of darcy. feck sake.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 02, 2012, 11:02:48 AM
James Downey just signed a 2 year deal back with Munster. He'd be solid enough defensively himself.
Limited enough player imo who is 18mths past his best. Id worry for Earls if he is playing outside him. His distribution is non existent and will never make an international player. The only advantage he has over Mafi is that he is IQ which would free up a NIQ elsewhere.
What about O Gara at 10 and Sexton at 12 ?
Quote from: ha ha derry on February 02, 2012, 02:39:44 PM
What about O Gara at 10 and Sexton at 12 ?
O'Gara was nothing special when he was 10 but i understand Sexton was a superb prospect at 12 years old.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 02, 2012, 10:52:58 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 02, 2012, 10:47:32 AM
Tough looking boyo :)
He is, I like him tough boyo indeed, remember a game a couple of years ago between Naas and Sunday's well and there was melee (supporters involved and all.) He was coaching Well and jumped into the middle of it, peace quickly ensued.
Must have missed that when it was no doubt plastered all over the Back and Front pages of the various newspapers... Joe Duffy would have also devoted a fair bit of his programme to that same given the National outrage which would have ensued...
Surprised I missed all this... ::)
Quote from: Celt_Man on February 02, 2012, 09:49:27 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 02, 2012, 10:52:58 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 02, 2012, 10:47:32 AM
Tough looking boyo :)
He is, I like him tough boyo indeed, remember a game a couple of years ago between Naas and Sunday's well and there was melee (supporters involved and all.) He was coaching Well and jumped into the middle of it, peace quickly ensued.
Must have missed that when it was no doubt plastered all over the Back and Front pages of the various newspapers... Joe Duffy would have also devoted a fair bit of his programme to that same given the National outrage which would have ensued...
Surprised I missed all this... ::)
This is a great country. No matter what you do wrong, it isn't wrong if you can point to someone who did something remotely similar, ever. It does't even matter if they were wrong either. Just point and sneer.
Another change at No.13- Earls out and McFadden in
Quote from: everymanaman on February 03, 2012, 12:42:36 PM
Another change at No.13- Earls out and McFadden in
His baby daughter is ill in hospital, hopefully she gets well soon, keeps everything in perspective.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 03, 2012, 01:08:31 PM
Quote from: everymanaman on February 03, 2012, 12:42:36 PM
Another change at No.13- Earls out and McFadden in
His baby daughter is ill in hospital, hopefully she gets well soon, keeps everything in perspective.
Hopefully everything is alright and it's just a percaution.
Dave Kearney into the replacements. Other than being Rob's brother can't say I know much about him. How's he been doing for Leinster?
Quote from: gawa316 on February 03, 2012, 02:43:50 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 03, 2012, 01:08:31 PM
Quote from: everymanaman on February 03, 2012, 12:42:36 PM
Another change at No.13- Earls out and McFadden in
His baby daughter is ill in hospital, hopefully she gets well soon, keeps everything in perspective.
Hopefully everything is alright and it's just a percaution.
Dave Kearney into the replacements. Other than being Rob's brother can't say I know much about him. How's he been doing for Leinster?
Meh. Not really a first 15 starter but good at times. Like Rob, steady if unspectacular.
Disappointing for Earls but understandable. Hopefully the child gets well soon.
Kearney Jnr is a lot like the brother, has the potential to be even better. More of a FB than winger imo as well but will be difficult to get in there at Leinster with Rob playing so well not to mention Nacewa.
A move to Ulster could possible be good for him in the future if he wants to play FB. Just putting it out there!!!
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 03, 2012, 08:59:47 PM
Disappointing for Earls but understandable. Hopefully the child gets well soon.
Kearney Jnr is a lot like the brother, has the potential to be even better. More of a FB than winger imo as well but will be difficult to get in there at Leinster with Rob playing so well not to mention Nacewa.
A move to Ulster could possible be good for him in the future if he wants to play FB. Just putting it out there!!!
IMO Nacewa is a tremendous FB, much better than Kearny. When I seen him bought first I thought he was typical of the Pacific players you see playing backs in England; fast, strong and stupid. However he has a good defensive game, excellent kicking and receiving game and is a excellent counter-attacker. All in all, one of the top FB's about.
He is a great FB but Leinster are going to be likely to be forced to play Kearney there for the forseeable future at Mr Kidneys request.
These f**king Welsh are Kerry of the GAA world. We'll be toothless, deaf old men and the Welsh will still be roaring in our ear how they were robbed during the WC by a completely uncalled-for application of the rules. Christ Almighty, at least the Kerry lads could claim that Darby might actually have gave him a wee dunt in the back.
Why do France wear white and Italy blue when the game is in France.
Dunno pat. France backs with Italian forwards would be a lethal combination. Malzeui and picamoles have been tremendous.
Scotland England is tough to watch, totally error strewn, would like to think tomorrow's will be much higher quality
Quote from: Capt Pat on February 04, 2012, 03:02:01 PM
Why do France wear white and Italy blue when the game is in France.
In rugby its normally the home team that changes jersey if there is a clash of colours.
Any links for the Ireland game?
Quote from: Puckoon on February 05, 2012, 02:41:07 PM
Any links for the Ireland game?
O'Neill won't be happy with ya..
http://www.firstrowsports.eu/watch/106106/1/watch-ireland-vs-wales.html
Cheers Dinny, although like the rest I've found it says the video isnt available. Thanks for sharing though - O'Neill can whisht.
EDIT: Result! Cheers Dinny.
did any of youse think about how minute micheal d higgins would look meeting rugby teams when you were voting!!!!
you should have voted for marty!! :P
poor enough start so far. making it even harder for ourselves
Sexton is dirt.
Oddly DOC not doing too bad. Centre pairing non-existent. Kearny keeping us in it.
Don't know how we're winning by double scores! :D
Great try though
Saving this up from yesterday when the site went down but Scotland had two potential tries taken away by the officials in quick succession in the second half. Foden should have got a yellow card for the deliberate knockon and a penalty try for the Scots. The tv ref should have given the other score as well.
In this game we need to play better in the second half.
come on, who's going to say it,
Stand UUUUp for the...................... :P
good stuff, thought they were about to lose it.
Quote, thought they were about to lose it.
and sure enough
daft decision. Davies should have gone and don't thik Ferris one was a penalty. The game was lost though by ridiculous decision to have Sexton go for it inside his own half. A man extra, why not put it in the corner and eat up the clock and hopefully get a try - Sexton was never going to kick that in a million years
Feck that
my rugby knowledge is limited so can someone explain what the penalty and sending off was for?
Quote from: Radda bout yeee on February 05, 2012, 04:49:40 PM
my rugby knowledge is limited so can someone explain what the penalty and sending off was for?
If you lift a player up in the tackle, especially beyond the horizontal, you must ensure that he returns safely to the ground, not dropping him or propelling him there.
We was robbed. That is 2 matches decided by the refs. The Ferris tackle was perfect.
Sexton had a mare, shouldn't have been on the pitch as long as he was. D'Arcy a nobody, not present in the game at. Davies tackle should have been a red, off the ball, dangerous play. IMO had Davies not got a yellow for spear tackling then neither would Ferris.
Few players held their head high today, POC was good and Kearney were fantastic.McFadden ran about like a headless chicken, no understanding of his position at all. O'Brein did nothing except concede penalties that a proper 7 would have turned over. Heaslip never got going.
Sexton was terrible though, kicked ball all day long because the centre's outside him offered nothing. Kicked poorly with only one finding touch deep in the Welsh 22. Luckily for us Priestland was shite too with the boot. If we had of played O'Gara we might have won. If Wales had have brought a out-half they would have destroyed us.
I think Wales will comfortably land a grand slam now, and getting that close to beating them is something to be proud of, not embarrassed about. Some of the nonsense Hook is spouting there is a disgrace.
Only negative comment I'd make is that the halfbacks shouldn't have been swapped on 77 mins in a one point game. Why anyone would want cold decision makers in that scenario is beyond me.
One other thing, why did O'Gara kick the ball straight back to the Welsh drop it on the ten yard line so we have a chance.
I thought Wales deserved it, played the better rugby and while the penalty at the end was harsh, it was stupid from Ferris. Davies played his last 6 nations game this year too.
While I hold back on calling for Kidney to step down, again we were tactically out-played by the Welsh, Sexton is one of the best attacking 10s in Europe yet our game plan was to put up Garryowen after Garyowen a plan tailored made for O'Gara. Ireland have gone stale and something has to change.
Quote from: thewobbler on February 05, 2012, 05:03:23 PM
I think Wales will comfortably land a grand slam now, and getting that close to beating them is something to be proud of, not embarrassed about. Some of the nonsense Hook is spouting there is a disgrace.
Only negative comment I'd make is that the halfbacks shouldn't have been swapped on 77 mins in a one point game. Why anyone would want cold decision makers in that scenario is beyond me.
Proud of being beaten??? ::)
I thought the whole "glorious failure" mindset within Irish Rugby had disappeared.
Ridiculous comment.
Being beaten by an understength Wales outfit is nothing to ever be "proud of".
Quote from: thewobbler on February 05, 2012, 05:03:23 PM
I think Wales will comfortably land a grand slam now, and getting that close to beating them is something to be proud of, not embarrassed about. Some of the nonsense Hook is spouting there is a disgrace.
Only negative comment I'd make is that the halfbacks shouldn't have been swapped on 77 mins in a one point game. Why anyone would want cold decision makers in that scenario is beyond me.
That performance was nothing to be proud of. No change from 6 mths ago, no gameplan, midfield clueless and rudderless, Ryan not starting even more mystifying.
The backrow just isnt working, 3 world class players but the balance isnt there, O Brien will never be the ball winner that is needed at 7 at international level.
Second time in 6 mths Gatland has made a wee boy out of Kidney.......Says alot.
Ballyhaise, there is a difference between glorious failure and realistic expectations.
Every single back in the Welsh team is better than his Irish counterpart. Not because of Irish selection policies, but because they are better than anything Ireland has to offer.
The fact that we can compete despite this deficiency is amazing.
There's some shite being talked about the back row balance too. Once the world class talents of Warburton were removed, Irelan had more than parity in every aspect of back row play. Playing a 'specialist' 7 wouldn't have changed this; unless he's world class then Warburton will have for breakfast. I see Hook as anointed O Mahoney as the chosen one. I'll not hold my breath.
f**k this "doing well to get close" shite. The Heineken Cup has proven we are one of the top rugby nations in Europe, FFS do people think we are the Scots or Italy. The talent is currently there in that squad, the main difference is that Leinster and especially Munster play a game plan to suit their players and to negate the strengths of the opposition.
Ireland just f**k the 15 most noteworthy players they can find and think by teaching them a few lineout throws and one or two back moves and throwing them the same coloured jersey means their a team.
There was no gameplan or sense with the way Ireland played today. The only successful tactic we had was to kick it high and send Kearney chasing. f**king clueless.
Quote from: thewobbler on February 05, 2012, 05:20:39 PM
Ballyhaise, there is a difference between glorious failure and realistic expectations.
Every single back in the Welsh team is better than his Irish counterpart. Not because of Irish selection policies, but because they are better than anything Ireland has to offer.
The fact that we can compete despite this deficiency is amazing.
There's some shite being talked about the back row balance too. Once the world class talents of Warburton were removed, Irelan had more than parity in every aspect of back row play. Playing a 'specialist' 7 wouldn't have changed this; unless he's world class then Warburton will have for breakfast. I see Hook as anointed O Mahoney as the chosen one. I'll not hold my breath.
There is no doubt about it that you are correct,that their are serious deficiencies within the Irish backline,however the ease with which and understrength Wales team moved down the field with 4 minutes left,was an absolutely pathetic fare from Ireland.
I just don't believe any pride can be taken from the failure to close out a game which was in their grasp with such little time left.
In an unrelated point, whom are the strength and conditioning staff for Ireland?
The difference in power and strength between the two sides was as noticeable as i've seen in a world- class rugby match.
Quote from: thewobbler on February 05, 2012, 05:20:39 PM
Ballyhaise, there is a difference between glorious failure and realistic expectations.
Every single back in the Welsh team is better than his Irish counterpart. Not because of Irish selection policies, but because they are better than anything Ireland has to offer.
The fact that we can compete despite this deficiency is amazing.
You're on the WU aren't you?
Rather have Kearny than Halfpenny. Rather have Bowe than Cuthbert. And in priestland v sexton, I'd pick the lad who could kick.
Wobbler have a read at what u are saying, Wales are not the All Blacks FFS!!!
I dont see Halfpenny being better than Kearney, I dont see Culbert being better than Bowe, Priestland like Sexton blows hot and cold. Phillips on the front foot is great but can be got at.
We have 3 provinces in quarters of the Heinekin Cup, Wales have one and are lucky to have that one.
Putting Wales up on a pedestal is nonsense imo, dont think they will win the championship never mind comfortably.
WGM you should stop looking around the teams and look at them instead. The IRFU's desire to change the employment rules for foreign players tells you all you need to know about how many gaps the current provincial set up has created for intl rugby.
Player for player, only NZ have a better team than Wales in international rugby.
I actually find some of the comments below quite disturbing. They have so loudly respect for Wales it is shocking, almost English soccer style in its blinkeredness.
Tell me people, why is we can expect O Brien and Ferris to break lines everytime, but we find it a mortal sin that Wales' just as big, but more agile backs can do the same to us?
Wobbler you must be on the wind-up, the Welsh tight five were destroyed by Ireland today. Wales player for player are not better than Ireland they are though much better coached and that was evident today. Scrum-half and centres are where Wales were at their strongest, they targeted D'Arcy all day with their big runners and it got them over the gain line nearly every time and resulted in the second try.
D'Arcy was shocking today and gave McFadden no chance outside him.
Didn't see any of the match. Didn't want to. Just glad to hear Wales won.
To quote Nelson Muntz, "haw haw".
Ireland's record against tier 1 countries since the 2009 Grand Slam:
Played 25, Won 10, Drew 1, Lost 14. Take out games against Italy and Ireland have won 7 and lost 14.
We will be well beaten next week and in Twickenham as well.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 05, 2012, 06:02:57 PM
Wobbler you must be on the wind-up, the Welsh tight five were destroyed by Ireland today. Wales player for player are not better than Ireland they are though much better coached and that was evident today. Scrum-half and centres are where Wales were at their strongest, they targeted D'Arcy all day with their big runners and it got them over the gain line nearly every time and resulted in the second try.
D'Arcy was shocking today and gave McFadden no chance outside him.
Was it Darcy that got completely flattened in the lead upto Davies try by either North/Robert????
Jesus, you might have well have put any of the 8 stone Rugby WAGS in there,and they would have made a better attempt at a stop.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 05, 2012, 06:23:30 PM
Ireland's record against tier 1 countries since the 2009 Grand Slam:
Played 25, Won 10, Drew 1, Lost 14. Take out games against Italy and Ireland have won 7 and lost 14.
We will be well beaten next week and in Twickenham as well.
We'll definitely lose next week anyway (probably badly too) but England were rubbish yesterday and only won due to Scottish incompetence. That game is still very winnable even in our current state.
It was McFadden that got bounced but it D'Arcy that missed the tackle and McFadden had to bite in.
England in Twickenham can be quite formidable, it will be a dead rubber game for us although Kidney's job could be on the line.
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on February 05, 2012, 06:25:25 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 05, 2012, 06:02:57 PM
Wobbler you must be on the wind-up, the Welsh tight five were destroyed by Ireland today. Wales player for player are not better than Ireland they are though much better coached and that was evident today. Scrum-half and centres are where Wales were at their strongest, they targeted D'Arcy all day with their big runners and it got them over the gain line nearly every time and resulted in the second try.
D'Arcy was shocking today and gave McFadden no chance outside him.
Was it Darcy that got completely flattened in the lead up by either North/Roberts to Davies try????
Jesus, you might have well have put any of the 8 stone Rugby WAGS in there,and they would have made a better attempt at a stop.
Darcy and McFadden both got run over at various points today. In fairness the likes of North and Roberts are twice their size and have pace to go with it. Especially North. Some of their tackling was still too high though. Big lumps like that have to be cut off at the knees.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 05, 2012, 06:31:29 PM
It was McFadden that got bounced but it D'Arcy that missed the tackle and McFadden had to bite in.
England in Twickenham can be quite formidable, it will be a dead rubber game for us although Kidney's job could be on the line.
Wasn't he given a new contract before the WC? Who would be the realistic candidates to replace him i.e that we might want and stood a chance of getting? Has Schmidt got international ambitions?
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 05, 2012, 06:31:29 PM
It was McFadden that got bounced but it D'Arcy that missed the tackle and McFadden had to bite in.
England in Twickenham can be quite formidable, it will be a dead rubber game for us although Kidney's job could be on the line.
History repeating itself maybe! Was Eddie O'Sullivans last game not against England at twickenhan in the last game of the 6 nations the year after a world cup?
I haven't seen the match or the controversial penalty at the end which Wales converted to win it -
Was it a penalty or not ?
Was defo a penalty for sure. For me Ireland (Sexton) missed too many. O'Gara should be playing along side Sexton, no real reason why he can't in my view. Wales over all the better team and more threatening team
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2012, 08:30:34 PM
Was defo a penalty for sure. For me Ireland (Sexton) missed too many. O'Gara should be playing along side Sexton, no real reason why he can't in my view. Wales over all the better team and more threatening team
Sexton has been always hit or miss while O'Gara was mostly hit.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 05, 2012, 06:02:57 PM
Wobbler you must be on the wind-up, the Welsh tight five were destroyed by Ireland today. Wales player for player are not better than Ireland they are though much better coached and that was evident today. Scrum-half and centres are where Wales were at their strongest, they targeted D'Arcy all day with their big runners and it got them over the gain line nearly every time and resulted in the second try.
D'Arcy was shocking today and gave McFadden no chance outside him.
Agree with this. We play with no imagination, we are too loyal to the older generation ( Darcy & Donnagha ) and rely on blood and guts to get us over the line.
Both Darcy and McFaddan were poor for that try, its all about technique in the tackle, no matter how big they are. McFadden tried to tackle high on a far bigger man and was knocked back. The key should have to tackle lol as these boys would have been taught at school boy level....I hope.
Not much can be said about Darcy, at least McFadden can have the excuse of being a bit green at this level. Even Paddy Wallace is a better defender than Darcy at this stage!!!!
Centre, back row, 2nd row and general game plan need to be looked at. We could badly do with a backs coach, Gaffney was bad but was not replaced.
D'arcy and Mc Fadden will be lucky to retain their places. O'Driscoll's absence was huge- there's no way he would have let their centre in for the third try. In this talk about conditioning I have to say the 4 Ulstermen were superb- Bowe and Ferris both made one mistake each( which cost us the game) but had fine games while Best and Trimble were outstanding- the latter is the only back that comes anywhere near to O'Driscoll's physicality.
I don't go with this no chance in Paris stuff.Despite playing poorly we could easily have won today and with Earls hopefully available ,you never know what mood the French will be in.
It might be a long shot but a few euro on a Down-Ireland double will pay for the holidays.
Bowe did well for Best try and to finish is own but thought it was one of his poorer games. Trimble did alright and Ferris was ok by his high standards.
Only Kearney and Best can hold their heads hight after that performance imo.
My main problem is that Kidney has a panel full of players who take on Europe year on year and come out on top yet when they join Ireland, under a different coaching team, play dreadful rugby (Oz match exception) and fail continually over the last 3 years since the GS when it counts. So what does the coach do about it, more of the same, every time.
People can talk about the importance of NIQ players at club level but Leinster only have Nacewa who makes an impact and outside of the front row, Munster rely mainly on irish players with Howlett past his best. Ulster may be the exception to this with reliance on Muller and Pinnaer especially, but we should have enough to be producing better than that today.
In Dublin next saturday, any good pubs to watch the rugby?
Quote from: CiKe on February 05, 2012, 04:48:32 PM
daft decision. Davies should have gone and don't thik Ferris one was a penalty. The game was lost though by ridiculous decision to have Sexton go for it inside his own half. A man extra, why not put it in the corner and eat up the clock and hopefully get a try - Sexton was never going to kick that in a million years
The penalty attempt from his own half was madness in the extreme. Who would have made that decision, Sexton or O'Connell? Even if Sexton did think he could make it O'Connell should have overuled him.
As you say Wales were a second row down and Ireland were doing well in the lineout.
Don't know enough about the technicalities of the tackle but you just knew Wales were either looking for a penalty or the drop goal at the end so the Irish should have been squeaky clean to see the game out.
The two Irish centres were targetted by Wales and one of the tries came from McFadden being steam rolled over in the tackle, hopefully he can improve but you can expect France to have taken note and try the same thing!!
Could be a long 6 nations campaign for Ireland.
Sexton had the distance in the long penalty, but did have to force it hence accuracy went. Against 14 men though POC should have insisted on going for the lineout.
Madness bringing on O'Gara so late. He'd two things to do - both restarts, and he made a balls of both of them, gave our lads no chance of winning either. Especially the last one where Halpennny had done us a bit of a favour by not taking more time and ensuring the clock was up.
Those Welsh backs are some monsters. If O'Gara and Earls had been on from the start it would've been a massacre.
Still it was a game we would have won but for silly errors. Tommy Bowe taking his eye of the ball at such a crucial moment. And how many pens did O'Brien, O'Connell and Ferris give away between them?
No surprise as Bradley Davis is cited for the spear tackle on Donncha Ryan and could be facing a long spell on the sidelines...but Stephen Ferris has also been cited for his tackle on Ian Evans...WTF ???
Ferris has no case to answer according to the hearing and a tweet by Evanne Ni Chuilinn.
Davis got a seven week ban, according to RTÉ at lunchtime. Seems about right in both cases. Unfortunately, they can't reverse the result of the match. Weak referees are the ruination of more than one sport.
Anyone here at the game? maybe you can spot yourself in the crowd.
http://tag.huggity.com/fanpic/004-2012-aviva/
http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2012/0208/1224311477756.html
QuoteRugby: Not only did Stephen Ferris escape any further punishment for his tackle on Ian Evans today, but the disciplinary panel that heard his case in London found a penalty should never have been awarded by referee Wayne Barnes, according to the Ireland management.
Ferris was yellow-carded for his tackle on the Welsh lock in the final minute of the Six Nations clash at the Aviva Stadium on Sunday, a decision that led to Leigh Halfpenny kicking the match-winning penalty with seconds to spare.
The flanker was subsequently cited by Italian match commissioner Achille Reali, but cleared of any wrongdoing today and is free to face France in Paris on Saturday night...
For all the criticism the team received in the wake of the two-point defeat, it has been found the officials played a significant role in Ireland's demise on two occasions.
The first, the sin-binning of Bradley Davies for a recklessly dangerous dump tackle on Donnacha Ryan in the 65th minute, was also shown up to be bad call, not just by Barnes, but from touch judge Dave Pearson, who will referee Ireland's game in Paris this weekend.
Pearson intervened after the tackle and described what he saw to Barnes as a yellow card offence. However, prior to Ferris's hearing today Davies was banned for seven weeks by the panel, a sanction that was reduced by five weeks after taking Davies's admission of guilt, his previous good disciplinary record and his conduct at the hearing in into account.
We wuz robbed.
We might've sneaked it, if decisions had gone our way, but Wales were the better side. They had the lion's share of the ball and they controlled the tempo of the game. If they'd had Halfpenny taking the kicks from the start, they'd have won with points to spare. I don't think that means Ireland are suddenly a bad team. I think it's just that this Welsh side are shaping up to be a bit special.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on February 08, 2012, 09:33:11 PM
We might've sneaked it, if decisions had gone our way, but Wales were the better side. They had the lion's share of the ball and they controlled the tempo of the game. If they'd had Halfpenny taking the kicks from the start, they'd have won with points to spare. I don't think that means Ireland are suddenly a bad team. I think it's just that this Welsh side are shaping up to be a bit special.
I really don't buy this Wales are a better side stuff.
Sure if they had got a legitimate penalty at the end or knocked over a DG I would admit they deserved it. But if the game had been allowed to continue after Ferris's tackle, and our lads forced a turnover, then we would have deserved the victory.
A major reason Wales were camped in our half for so long in the 1st half was because they couldn't score! We were actually pretty incisive when we did get the ball.
Overall, very little between the two sides. They certainly have the edge with their manager though.
Yachvilli out injured for France, so Parra is in. Not noticeable difference, although the unlikeable and less good Dupuy is now on the bench.
Thornley predicting just the one change for Ireland - Earls for McFadden.
Dunno how he can justify O'Callaghan ahead of Ryan.
I also think McFadden would be unlucky to lose out before D'Arcy. Though Earls defence is worst than both, so hate the thought of him in the centre. If he's playing it should be on the wing (and opposite Clerc rather than Malzieu!)
insanity
How is Darcy still on the team? He's been below par for 2/3 years now, lifted it for the world cup but his day is done, a gret player for Ireland, albeit without the tries to show for it.
Not sure how we can bring in a player who struggles to defend and cannot pass, if Earls is to play it has to be on the wing and we have two better wingers. We need two centres badly
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on February 09, 2012, 03:09:35 PM
How is Darcy still on the team? He's been below par for 2/3 years now, lifted it for the world cup but his day is done, a gret player for Ireland, albeit without the tries to show for it.
Not sure how we can bring in a player who struggles to defend and cannot pass, if Earls is to play it has to be on the wing and we have two better wingers. We need two centres badly
Earls' position might be Centre long term, but not now. He might be effective with Downey beside him as the ox next season for Munster, but his tackling is going to be cruelly exposed on Saturday I think. Hopefully I'm wrong, and I like him as a player, but he's not an international (nor indeed a provincial) centre at the moment.
I don't think he ever will be, he had learned nothing about passing or offloading in the 3/4 years he has been with Munster & Ireland
Unfortunately 6 days is too short a time to start chopping the team.
If a holistic approach was taken to the backline and the better players were put in more key positions, it would be O'Gara at 10, Sexton 12 and Bowe 13. Earls and Trimble, or whoever else on the wings.
However its too late to completely re-arrange it at this stage.
At least we know France will probably attempt to target the centres in a big way and we can set up the defence accordingly. I'd be surprised if Darcy and Earls are left isolated when France are on the attack. You'll see other players designated to help defend those channels.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on February 09, 2012, 03:15:26 PM
I don't think he ever will be, he had learned nothing about passing or offloading in the 3/4 years he has been with Munster & Ireland
Very seldom at Munster in fairness. A lot of time on the wing or full back.
Earls doesn't have the ability or inclination to be a good enough passer to play at 13.
He's not good enough to play wing either. He's a one trick pony - gets the ball, sidesteps off his left, every time. Doesn't have the lightening pace he's often attributed with either. He's a decent player and a very good finisher, but he's not really up to much at International level.
QuoteJim Neilly
I have just read this e-mail, which was sent to the IRB yesterday by a young Mr Matt Lander and personally, I think it's a thing of beauty.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Hello IRB.
My name is Matt and I am 27 and a half years old. I enjoy walking my dog, walking my wife, reading the twilight books and watching rugby. I watch as much rugby as I can. Often I have to cover my eyes because I'm afraid someone will get hurt, but the adrenaline this fear gives me is half the reason I enjoy the game. I am writing to you because I think you may have made a grave error. I was searching the interweb while I was at work (totally on a break) and I was looking at the French team for this Saturday's 6 nations fixture against Ireland. There was nothing strange about this, aside from the uncomfortable and shameful feeling that washes over me when the camera does a close up of Dimitri Szarzewski. Imagine my shock, then, when I noticed the referee for this game was Dave Pearson!! This has led me to believe that you, IRB, are one of two things;
1 - You are just a group of normal guys who have made a common error - an oversight. You are so busy enjoying your luck, by living off a sport that you do not play, that you haven't even realised that Mr Pearson is still an accredited referee, and in charge of one of the biggest games of the championship. You probably assumed that by now Mr Pearson was officiating games of the correct standard for his ability - ideally the North Tyneside mixed tag under 9s.
2 - You are a twisted, sadistic group of former people, who have decided that Irish rugby is evil and must be punished for yet to be named crimes against humanity. You have set up shop in Dublin as to get an insider's view on how best to bring down the IRFU.
This leads us to the offender in chief, Mr Pearson. I have never met someone before who has selective sight. In fact, I'm not sure if it is an officially recognised medical condition. When I have finished with this email, I'll contact some people I know in medical research to check it out. You never know, we may have discovered something here. "Why did you walk into that lamppost? are you ok?" "I'm fine, it happens all the time. I've got Pearsons". That is a conversation you could potentially hear in the next few years. But I digress. Did you see the Clermont Auvergne vs Ulster game in the final pool stage of the Heineken cup? I did. At the time I was confused, as I was under the impression that tackling someone who did not have the ball, was not part of a ruck, and indeed was on the defending team was some sort of offence. Selective sight Pearson disagreed, and Ulster's home quarter final was kaput. But apparently shafting a province was merely an appetizer in Pearson's meal of inadequacy. The main course was saved for Lansdowne road on Sunday. Bradley Davies assault on Donncha Ryan happened right in front of Mr Pearson. This must have put him in quite the pickle. He obviously didn't have selective sight as a viable option this time. I can only imagine the sweat running down his brow as he approached Wayne Barnes, and the sheer relief he felt when Barnes said he didn't see anything. This was Pearson's opportunity. He could downplay the incident, and make sure Wales finished the game with a full compliment of players. It should be noted that this does not exonerate Barnes, who should have treated Pearson's recommendation for a yellow card the way I treat my nephew's recommendation of angel delight for dinner - laughter and pity. Quite how anyone can have the testicular fortitude to recommend a yellow card for something that qualifies as Actual Bodily Harm is actually impressive. You may need to provide him with a wheelbarrow for his massive balls to keep up with play come Saturday. I am curious as to how Pearson can complete this trilogy of heartbreak, as he is doubtless keen to do. How can he top last Sunday? Is he going to trip Tommy Bowe? Stab Sean O'Brien at half time? Pepper spray Paul O'Connell during the coin toss?
I look forward in anticipation of your response and the naming of a new referee for Saturday post haste.
Yours faithfully,
Matt Lander
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on February 09, 2012, 03:37:00 PM
Unfortunately 6 days is too short a time to start chopping the team.
O'Gara at 10, Sexton 12 and Bowe 13.
Not trying to write off your idea but defensively that's as weak a ten-12-13 axis as you can manage. Sexton would in fact be the best defender of the three and none of them are particularly noted for throwing themselves into the ruck/counter ruck in the way that O'Driscoll and O'Darcy at their peak used to do. You would have a midfield content to yield yards and quick ball to the opposition.
Whilst the idea might be worth a try it is not the holy trinity of Irish rugby that it is made out to be.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on February 09, 2012, 03:37:00 PM
Unfortunately 6 days is too short a time to start chopping the team.
If a holistic approach was taken to the backline and the better players were put in more key positions, it would be O'Gara at 10, Sexton 12 and Bowe 13. Earls and Trimble, or whoever else on the wings.
However its too late to completely re-arrange it at this stage.
At least we know France will probably attempt to target the centres in a big way and we can set up the defence accordingly. I'd be surprised if Darcy and Earls are left isolated when France are on the attack. You'll see other players designated to help defend those channels.
So to solve our centre problems you want to put in a flyhalf and a winger. Is it too much to ask to play your best players in each position in the position they actually play in.
Currently as will be seen tomorrow night for Ulster, Paddy Wallace is the best performing inside centre we have who is actually playing in that position, this was shown against top quality sides in Leicester and Clermount. Up until his injury Darren Cave is the best outside centre that we have that is currently playing in that position and was fit. As he is injured next in line is unfortunately Earls who I agree isnt the answer. Thats where we are until Drico returns and in the long term until Cave, O Malley and Spence are ready.
As for the game on Saturday il be watching it with my hands over my eyes for fear at what the french backrow and midfield will do to our midfield.
A win on saturday and il be delighted but what type of win and performance is also important.
A poor quality game, whilst leaving me delighted will still lead me to believe that we have problems.
A high quality game, with new tactics, will be an admission by Kidney that he got it wrong against Wales. (Im not expecting this)
A high quality game, with the same tactics will have me very happily admit that Deccie was right and I will eat humble pie like a few others on here might have to ( im not expecting this either)
Earls mightn't get a chance to mature at a centre at Munster it appears. Casey Laulala has been signed from Cardiff, along with Downey from Northampton. Mafi must be worried, and Earls is probably headed back to the wing I'd say.
Surely Downey will be a squad player at Munster?
Depends. Downey could start for his defensive strength and to use him as crash ball carrier.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 10, 2012, 11:18:43 AM
Depends. Downey could start for his defensive strength and to use him as crash ball carrier.
He will give Munster good options and Munster were always at their best with a strong ball carrying 12 (Henderson, Halstead, Tipoki). Won't play every game but will feature a lot.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 10, 2012, 11:29:08 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 10, 2012, 11:18:43 AM
Depends. Downey could start for his defensive strength and to use him as crash ball carrier.
He will give Munster good options and Munster were always at their best with a strong ball carrying 12 (Henderson, Halstead, Tipoki). Won't play every game but will feature a lot.
That's the way I'd see it too.
The signing of Laulala means that either one of Mafi or Howlett wont get another contract.
Under normal circumstances there wouldnt be much of a decision here but the fact that Howlett is 38, has had a bad injury and Munster now have Earls,Zebo, Murphy and Hurley to fill the wings makes it more interesting. Add to that the fact that imo Mafi is a lot better player than Downey.
If Munster wanted to go for the crash ball centre they could have went for Ian Whitten. Younger, faster and better hands than Downey. Maybe Ulster wouldnt part with him though with Wallace in front of him and Marshall coming through I dont see him getting much game time at 12.
I think tomorrow night is going to be a long night for Irish rugby. Looking at the two back lines only O'Gara would make it in and that's because he can control a game, Trinh-Duc like Sexton is too inconsistent at international level. As for the two respective packs we have the edge with Healy, Best, O'Connell and Heaslip. So bascially in a composite team we would have 5 players and one of those isn't starting, if it wasn't Ireland that France are playing I'd be all over the handicap.
Hope I am wrong.
Saying ROG would start for France is a joke.
Quote from: Keane on February 10, 2012, 05:45:31 PM
Saying ROG would start for France is a joke.
Why?
Out-half is a problem position for France hence a scrum-half was there starting 10 in the World Cup, Trinh-Toc has been given plenty of opportunities and has failed to nail his place, he is short of size and speed, not a particularly good kicker and frequently appears to take too much out of the ball. Boyet would be my choice is not in the squad, Skrela is injured the other out-half in the squad, Beauxis, has no running game and struggles to get his back line attack going.
So rather than disparage my opinon with a pointless comment you could have offered some rebuttal. Pfft!!
What ever happened to Michalak (sp?)?
Back playing with the Sharks in SA I think.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 10, 2012, 05:56:53 PM
Quote from: Keane on February 10, 2012, 05:45:31 PM
Saying ROG would start for France is a joke.
Why?
Out-half is a problem position for France hence a scrum-half was there starting 10 in the World Cup, Trinh-Toc has been given plenty of opportunities and has failed to nail his place, he is short of size and speed, not a particularly good kicker and frequently appears to take too much out of the ball. Boyet would be my choice is not in the squad, Skrela is injured the other out-half in the squad, Beauxis, has no running game and struggles to get his back line attack going.
So rather than disparage my opinon with a pointless comment you could have offered some rebuttal. Pfft!!
Don't often agree with Dinny on rugby matters but he's pointing out the elephant in the room with this French team.
Trinh-duc is a terribly inconsistent FH and nowhere near the standard that this French team plays at. He's mediocre at club level too and has the 10 jersey simply because the other options Skrela and Beauxis (a full-back at fly-half) have no ability at all in delivering ball to the threatening backs the French have.
Michalaks career bombed shortly after he led a Toulouse team to defeat against
Glasgow in the fortress Stade Toulousain. To be fair whilst he was a decent FH he was to small in stature and too light to continue at international level.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 10, 2012, 05:32:06 PM
I think tomorrow night is going to be a long night for Irish rugby. Looking at the two back lines only O'Gara would make it in and that's because he can control a game, Trinh-Duc like Sexton is too inconsistent at international level. As for the two respective packs we have the edge with Healy, Best, O'Connell and Heaslip. So bascially in a composite team we would have 5 players and one of those isn't starting, if it wasn't Ireland that France are playing I'd be all over the handicap.
Hope I am wrong.
Heaslip is living of past reputation in my opinion. Has not been up to scratch for a while now in an Ireland shirt and if I was the coach I would drop him and play O'Brien at 8 and play a better openside at 7.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 10, 2012, 10:16:26 AM
Earls mightn't get a chance to mature at a centre at Munster it appears. Casey Laulala has been signed from Cardiff, along with Downey from Northampton. Mafi must be worried, and Earls is probably headed back to the wing I'd say.
Thinks its a pity that with all their resources Munster can't develop players in positions that they struggle with. Problem with the front row? Hire a Springbok. Problem with the centres? Hire a Pacific lad. It'll be the same in a few years time when ROG hangs up his boots.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 10, 2012, 05:32:06 PM
I think tomorrow night is going to be a long night for Irish rugby. Looking at the two back lines only O'Gara would make it in and that's because he can control a game, Trinh-Duc like Sexton is too inconsistent at international level. As for the two respective packs we have the edge with Healy, Best, O'Connell and Heaslip. So bascially in a composite team we would have 5 players and one of those isn't starting, if it wasn't Ireland that France are playing I'd be all over the handicap.
Hope I am wrong.
Have to agree with this re Trinh-Duc, a fly half is the only thing holding France back, well that and a complete lack of consistency.
I actually think Johnny would be alright if he was aloud to play his own game. The current game plan is more suited to O Gara's game though.
Sexton is going to have madigan chasing him very shortly by the looks of it, especially if he can develop his place kicking. Anyone know whether he cant place kick or is it that Leinster just dont have any faith in him doing it. Found it strange that being 14 points ahead in the league they would have given him the chance to have a go last night instead of Nacewa.
Quote from: trileacman on February 10, 2012, 06:59:20 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 10, 2012, 05:32:06 PM
I think tomorrow night is going to be a long night for Irish rugby. Looking at the two back lines only O'Gara would make it in and that's because he can control a game, Trinh-Duc like Sexton is too inconsistent at international level. As for the two respective packs we have the edge with Healy, Best, O'Connell and Heaslip. So bascially in a composite team we would have 5 players and one of those isn't starting, if it wasn't Ireland that France are playing I'd be all over the handicap.
Hope I am wrong.
Heaslip is living of past reputation in my opinion. Has not been up to scratch for a while now in an Ireland shirt and if I was the coach I would drop him and play O'Brien at 8 and play a better openside at 7.
Thought about that one myself but Heaslips performances have improved of late and if you move O'Brien to 8 who to you put at 7. It would be fine if David Wallace was fit but it would be difficult to give O Mahony his debut in Paris, unfair in fact.
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 10, 2012, 07:05:39 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 10, 2012, 05:32:06 PM
I think tomorrow night is going to be a long night for Irish rugby. Looking at the two back lines only O'Gara would make it in and that's because he can control a game, Trinh-Duc like Sexton is too inconsistent at international level. As for the two respective packs we have the edge with Healy, Best, O'Connell and Heaslip. So bascially in a composite team we would have 5 players and one of those isn't starting, if it wasn't Ireland that France are playing I'd be all over the handicap.
Hope I am wrong.
Have to agree with this re Trinh-Duc, a fly half is the only thing holding France back, well that and a complete lack of consistency.
I actually think Johnny would be alright if he was aloud to play his own game. The current game plan is more suited to O Gara's game though.
Sexton is going to have madigan chasing him very shortly by the looks of it, especially if he can develop his place kicking. Anyone know whether he cant place kick or is it that Leinster just dont have any faith in him doing it. Found it strange that being 14 points ahead in the league they would have given him the chance to have a go last night instead of Nacewa.
Agree with the game plan but do we pick a game plan to suit players or players to suit a game plan - we're falling between the bar and the stool. I pick a game plan to suit the players.
He's a poor goal kicker but other players can kick - 1/2p is a full-back, Owen Farrell is a 12, Parra is a 9 - sometimes I think it's a Irish/Munster Obsession that a 10 has to kick goals.
Madigan is a cocky fecker, I like him will push Sexton next season.
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 10, 2012, 07:37:02 PM
Quote from: trileacman on February 10, 2012, 06:59:20 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 10, 2012, 05:32:06 PM
I think tomorrow night is going to be a long night for Irish rugby. Looking at the two back lines only O'Gara would make it in and that's because he can control a game, Trinh-Duc like Sexton is too inconsistent at international level. As for the two respective packs we have the edge with Healy, Best, O'Connell and Heaslip. So bascially in a composite team we would have 5 players and one of those isn't starting, if it wasn't Ireland that France are playing I'd be all over the handicap.
Hope I am wrong.
Heaslip is living of past reputation in my opinion. Has not been up to scratch for a while now in an Ireland shirt and if I was the coach I would drop him and play O'Brien at 8 and play a better openside at 7.
Thought about that one myself but Heaslips performances have improved of late and if you move O'Brien to 8 who to you put at 7. It would be fine if David Wallace was fit but it would be difficult to give O Mahony his debut in Paris, unfair in fact.
He was by miles Irelands best back-row player last week. Ferris was awful last week, O'Brien not much better, O'Brien is not a 7. It's now pretty obvious we can only play 2 of the 3 and we need a 7. Dominic Ryan/Willie Faloon are the best up and coming 7s in Ireland imho but unfortunately 7 is a problem position for Ireland, don't envy Kidney that selection headache one bit.
O'Brien to me looks like he has been figured out a little, getting hit very early as soon as he gets his paws on the ball. Needs to be more clever with his lines of running.
Oh I agree we should be playing a system that suits the players but not sure we are going to see Kidney doing that at this stage. If we were to be playing a running game then I would be having reddan at 9, Sexton at 10, Wallace 12 and Earls at 13. There is no future with O Gara but he is better suited to the way we are playing at the minute with Murray inside him.
Madigan reminds me of David Humphreys in his early days, he too wasnt the best of kickers then too but developed it to international standard. Will be some battle between Sexton and Madigan in a year or 2. Or could we see one of them moving to Munster as O Gara's long term replacement ( dont rate Keatley)
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 10, 2012, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 10, 2012, 07:37:02 PM
Quote from: trileacman on February 10, 2012, 06:59:20 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 10, 2012, 05:32:06 PM
I think tomorrow night is going to be a long night for Irish rugby. Looking at the two back lines only O'Gara would make it in and that's because he can control a game, Trinh-Duc like Sexton is too inconsistent at international level. As for the two respective packs we have the edge with Healy, Best, O'Connell and Heaslip. So bascially in a composite team we would have 5 players and one of those isn't starting, if it wasn't Ireland that France are playing I'd be all over the handicap.
Hope I am wrong.
Heaslip is living of past reputation in my opinion. Has not been up to scratch for a while now in an Ireland shirt and if I was the coach I would drop him and play O'Brien at 8 and play a better openside at 7.
Thought about that one myself but Heaslips performances have improved of late and if you move O'Brien to 8 who to you put at 7. It would be fine if David Wallace was fit but it would be difficult to give O Mahony his debut in Paris, unfair in fact.
He was by miles Irelands best back-row player last week. Ferris was awful last week, O'Brien not much better, O'Brien is not a 7. It's now pretty obvious we can only play 2 of the 3 and we need a 7. Dominic Ryan/Willie Faloon are the best up and coming 7s in Ireland imho but unfortunately 7 is a problem position for Ireland, don't envy Kidney that selection headache one bit.
O'Brien to me looks like he has been figured out a little, getting hit very early as soon as he gets his paws on the ball. Needs to be more clever with his lines of running.
Having seen quite a bit of Willie Faloon I just dont see him as being able to step up to international level, think he would have done so at this stage if he was. Think Ulster branch feel the same as they are trying to make a 7 out of Henry, to some success as well. Ulster had a great prospect at 7 a few years ago in David Pollack but sadly he got a bad injury and had to retire at a very early stage in his career.
There arent too many international teams that play with the traditional 7's anymore (look at France tomorrow night) but you need a smart player to play it. Wallace could do it but not sure O Brien can do it, he is more brawn than brains, the same with Ferris in fact. Dominic Ryan maybe but will he get game time there in the near future? Maybe when Jennings leaves the scene at Leinster.
This Gilroy chap impresses me almost every time I watch him. Has a natural flair for being in the right place at the right time. Missed a couple of tackles last year but seems to be improving defensively.
Ryan has been out injured with a fractured ankle - he play 31 times last season for Leinster and was expected to be Leinsters first choice 7 by the end of this season. Ryan should go to NZ in the summer with the full Irish squad, still only 21 and a better player than Jennings.
Quote from: thewobbler on February 10, 2012, 08:26:13 PM
This Gilroy chap impresses me almost every time I watch him. Has a natural flair for being in the right place at the right time. Missed a couple of tackles last year but seems to be improving defensively.
I like him too, took him at 7/5 to score anytime :)
Should have been on the Irish Wolfhounds team.
He scored there.
I think Ireland might do better than expected against France.
For the last while Ireland's poorer performances have been against sides they haven't shown enough respect to.
Games where they've thrown the ball wide early, expecting to run it through the opposition and where we're kicked Garryowens, chips and grubbers, expecting mistakes and lucky bounces.
Playing for the cheap and easy tries, instead of putting in the groundwork.
The big wins against England and Australia last year where games when Ireland didn't waste the ball cheaply. Where they actually played it tighter and tried to win the battle in the forwards first. Just as some of the GS '09 games were won with pure grunt work.
Against France, Ireland can't risk all these 50-50 garryowens and kick and chases...or whatever the technical terms are.
Even if Ireland win most of them, the French are lethal at creating tries off the cuff from the chaos and broken play that these lead to.
Ireland should be prepared to ruck and recycle the ball to death, as if it was Munster closing out a Heineken Cup final, just to keep the French hands off it. Hope the French start to lose their composure and openings appear.
In nearly game in Paris that I can remember, Ireland have started by kicking everything they lay their hands on to the French. The French are usually out of sight by half time having run it back and through Ireland.
The home fans need to be silenced as well because the French team and crowd seem to feed off each other. Especially when they start running and making breaks. When the crowd get festive, it seems to inspire the French players start doing outrageous stuff.
Ireland confirm they have called Paddy Wallace into squad as cover for Jonny Sexton. Sexton carrying knock but not yet ruled out
O'Gara, D'Arcy and Earls - Rougerie is a wee bit excited I'd imagine..
Seriously ROG, D'arcy and Earls in midfield together would be horrendous. Most club centres would fancy their chances. Harinordaquay will basically play midfield tomorrow.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on February 10, 2012, 08:38:15 PM
I think Ireland might do better than expected against France.
For the last while Ireland's poorer performances have been against sides they haven't shown enough respect to.
Games where they've thrown the ball wide early, expecting to run it through the opposition and where we're kicked Garryowens, chips and grubbers, expecting mistakes and lucky bounces.
Playing for the cheap and easy tries, instead of putting in the groundwork.
The big wins against England and Australia last year where games when Ireland didn't waste the ball cheaply. Where they actually played it tighter and tried to win the battle in the forwards first. Just as some of the GS '09 games were won with pure grunt work.
Against France, Ireland can't risk all these 50-50 garryowens and kick and chases...or whatever the technical terms are.
Even if Ireland win most of them, the French are lethal at creating tries off the cuff from the chaos and broken play that these lead to.
Ireland should be prepared to ruck and recycle the ball to death, as if it was Munster closing out a Heineken Cup final, just to keep the French hands off it. Hope the French start to lose their composure and openings appear.
In nearly game in Paris that I can remember, Ireland have started by kicking everything they lay their hands on to the French. The French are usually out of sight by half time having run it back and through Ireland.
The home fans need to be silenced as well because the French team and crowd seem to feed off each other. Especially when they start running and making breaks. When the crowd get festive, it seems to inspire the French players start doing outrageous stuff.
The press line is that those victories you speak of were won by sheer physicality by the Irish team, a ploy which is infeasible in the long run. The performance against Australia was followed and preceded by poor performances. It is possible that the Aussies underestimated us and we in turn played out of our skins when presented with an opportunity to prove doubters wrong.
O'Driscoll, Cullen, O'Connell, Ferris, Heaslip, Wallace and Kearney are as physical as any player the world over in their respective positions. Too many of our "good" performances rely upon us stunning the opposition with the physicality at the ruck, lineout and tackle and winning by a greater number of penalties taken.
I believe this to a certain extent. Many of our top performances are hallmarked by a gritty determination and a controlled aggression much of it in the Munster style.
Very rarely can we say we beat a top 6 world side by having a vastly superior back-play or line-out or scrum or a clinical defence (as opposed to an aggressive one). A superior kicking game, aerial ability and physicality are our trump cards and we return to those principles time and time again to dig ourselves out of a hole (under the current management).
There are commentators who can articulate this point alot better than me and there is some value in the school of thought that says our current approach (tactical and selection wise) does not lend itself to consistent performances of a high calibre.
Quote from: trileacman on February 11, 2012, 01:42:00 AM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on February 10, 2012, 08:38:15 PM
I think Ireland might do better than expected against France.
For the last while Ireland's poorer performances have been against sides they haven't shown enough respect to.
Games where they've thrown the ball wide early, expecting to run it through the opposition and where we're kicked Garryowens, chips and grubbers, expecting mistakes and lucky bounces.
Playing for the cheap and easy tries, instead of putting in the groundwork.
The big wins against England and Australia last year where games when Ireland didn't waste the ball cheaply. Where they actually played it tighter and tried to win the battle in the forwards first. Just as some of the GS '09 games were won with pure grunt work.
Against France, Ireland can't risk all these 50-50 garryowens and kick and chases...or whatever the technical terms are.
Even if Ireland win most of them, the French are lethal at creating tries off the cuff from the chaos and broken play that these lead to.
Ireland should be prepared to ruck and recycle the ball to death, as if it was Munster closing out a Heineken Cup final, just to keep the French hands off it. Hope the French start to lose their composure and openings appear.
In nearly game in Paris that I can remember, Ireland have started by kicking everything they lay their hands on to the French. The French are usually out of sight by half time having run it back and through Ireland.
The home fans need to be silenced as well because the French team and crowd seem to feed off each other. Especially when they start running and making breaks. When the crowd get festive, it seems to inspire the French players start doing outrageous stuff.
The press line is that those victories you speak of were won by sheer physicality by the Irish team, a ploy which is infeasible in the long run. The performance against Australia was followed and preceded by poor performances. It is possible that the Aussies underestimated us and we in turn played out of our skins when presented with an opportunity to prove doubters wrong.
O'Driscoll, Cullen, O'Connell, Ferris, Heaslip, Wallace and Kearney are as physical as any player the world over in their respective positions. Too many of our "good" performances rely upon us stunning the opposition with the physicality at the ruck, lineout and tackle and winning by a greater number of penalties taken.
I believe this to a certain extent. Many of our top performances are hallmarked by a gritty determination and a controlled aggression much of it in the Munster style.
Very rarely can we say we beat a top 6 world side by having a vastly superior back-play or line-out or scrum or a clinical defence (as opposed to an aggressive one). A superior kicking game, aerial ability and physicality are our trump cards and we return to those principles time and time again to dig ourselves out of a hole (under the current management).
There are commentators who can articulate this point alot better than me and there is some value in the school of thought that says our current approach (tactical and selection wise) does not lend itself to consistent performances of a high calibre.
Must be something in the water but I agree with all this, the commentators though are reluctant to make this point and I feel many are waiting till the 6 nations is over which is as it should be.
Post 6 Nations Ireland needs to assess what it wants to achieve, this you must win your next game philosophy while moderately successful under EOS and DK is now strangling our development, the provinces play different games to what we see at International level, Ulster and Leinster are very dynamic and Munster's forward play this year has probably been the best in the European club game yet we are not taking this into the Irish set-up.
As an aside rumors that all not happy in the set-up and that the analysis coach Mervyn Murphy has too much influence, it must be hard to for players to move from progressive coaching at the the provinces to the damage limitation minimise our mistakes coaching at International set-up.
Change needs to happen.
Sexton ok to start. Unfortunately for him.
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 10, 2012, 08:10:03 PM
Oh I agree we should be playing a system that suits the players but not sure we are going to see Kidney doing that at this stage. If we were to be playing a running game then I would be having reddan at 9, Sexton at 10, Wallace 12 and Earls at 13. There is no future with O Gara but he is better suited to the way we are playing at the minute with Murray inside him.
Madigan reminds me of David Humphreys in his early days, he too wasnt the best of kickers then too but developed it to international standard. Will be some battle between Sexton and Madigan in a year or 2. Or could we see one of them moving to Munster as O Gara's long term replacement ( dont rate Keatley)
Humphreys was a big game bottler for Ireland - could never reproduce his ulster form for his country.
I think sexton will. If midfield was improved France could be beaten today - I think set pieces ireland can do them!
Quote from: trileacman on February 11, 2012, 01:42:00 AM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on February 10, 2012, 08:38:15 PM
I think Ireland might do better than expected against France.
For the last while Ireland's poorer performances have been against sides they haven't shown enough respect to.
Games where they've thrown the ball wide early, expecting to run it through the opposition and where we're kicked Garryowens, chips and grubbers, expecting mistakes and lucky bounces.
Playing for the cheap and easy tries, instead of putting in the groundwork.
The big wins against England and Australia last year where games when Ireland didn't waste the ball cheaply. Where they actually played it tighter and tried to win the battle in the forwards first. Just as some of the GS '09 games were won with pure grunt work.
Against France, Ireland can't risk all these 50-50 garryowens and kick and chases...or whatever the technical terms are.
Even if Ireland win most of them, the French are lethal at creating tries off the cuff from the chaos and broken play that these lead to.
Ireland should be prepared to ruck and recycle the ball to death, as if it was Munster closing out a Heineken Cup final, just to keep the French hands off it. Hope the French start to lose their composure and openings appear.
In nearly game in Paris that I can remember, Ireland have started by kicking everything they lay their hands on to the French. The French are usually out of sight by half time having run it back and through Ireland.
The home fans need to be silenced as well because the French team and crowd seem to feed off each other. Especially when they start running and making breaks. When the crowd get festive, it seems to inspire the French players start doing outrageous stuff.
The press line is that those victories you speak of were won by sheer physicality by the Irish team, a ploy which is infeasible in the long run. The performance against Australia was followed and preceded by poor performances. It is possible that the Aussies underestimated us and we in turn played out of our skins when presented with an opportunity to prove doubters wrong.
O'Driscoll, Cullen, O'Connell, Ferris, Heaslip, Wallace and Kearney are as physical as any player the world over in their respective positions. Too many of our "good" performances rely upon us stunning the opposition with the physicality at the ruck, lineout and tackle and winning by a greater number of penalties taken.
I believe this to a certain extent. Many of our top performances are hallmarked by a gritty determination and a controlled aggression much of it in the Munster style.
Very rarely can we say we beat a top 6 world side by having a vastly superior back-play or line-out or scrum or a clinical defence (as opposed to an aggressive one). A superior kicking game, aerial ability and physicality are our trump cards and we return to those principles time and time again to dig ourselves out of a hole (under the current management).
There are commentators who can articulate this point alot better than me and there is some value in the school of thought that says our current approach (tactical and selection wise) does not lend itself to consistent performances of a high calibre.
Ah yeah, unleashing underdog fury in every game it is unsustainable.
But thinking back to how the Grand Slam in '09 was won. It was more with a 10-man, forward oriented style. 8 of the 10 players numbered 1-10 were Munster players also.
Sweeping back line moves weren't a feature. A lot of the vital tries owed to brute force from the pack (and O'Driscoll).
The team was low in confidence at the time, so it was the right way to play it.
Maybe the current players aren't capable of playing a more open game at international level, or maybe the coaching expertise isn't there.
When Eddie O'Sullivan was in charge the back line moved a lot better, especially between '04 and early '07. But perhaps that was that down to players like O'Driscoll and D'arcy being at their peak?
QuoteBut thinking back to how the Grand Slam in '09 was won. It was more with a 10-man, forward oriented style.
It was also the year of the ELV's. Where it was better not to have the ball. Someone needs to tell Kidney the ELV's have been discontinued.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 11, 2012, 01:44:55 PM
QuoteBut thinking back to how the Grand Slam in '09 was won. It was more with a 10-man, forward oriented style.
It was also the year of the ELV's. Where it was better not to have the ball. Someone needs to tell Kidney the ELV's have been discontinued.
True, but at least back then there was good reason to kick away the ball.
Now I'm not sure whether its kicked away as a pre determined plan, or simply because the player in possession has run out of options.
But, in between the foot tennis bouts of '09 Ireland still managed to use the pack as a weapon. These days they just need to be more patient and appreciative of possession...especially against the French.
Great win for the under 20's in Grenoble.
You never know.........
Well match postponed,
thats our best result in Paris for a long time. :P
And the band played on...
It must be sickening for the fans that made it to Paris.
Quote from: thejuice on February 11, 2012, 07:55:05 PM
Well match postponed,
thats our best result in Paris for a long time. :P
:D
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2012, 08:17:34 PM
It must be sickening for the fans that made it to Paris.
And then ur woman there says keep your tickets and u will get entry into the refixture - i cant imagine too many irish fans beign able to afford 2 trips to paris in the space of 3 weeks!
Surprising that the Stade De France still has no undersoil heating. In 1998 when it had just opened, Ireland played France there and the game was in doubt because the pitch had been frozen during the week. Two years ago sub zero temperatures also put the fixture at risk.
The French might eventually get the hint.
Will the fans be compensated for the wasted trip? When 400 fans lost their seats at the superbowl they got compensation packages. They shiuld be cimpensated imho.
Keith wood said that Munsters scheduled Rabo league match last night with Treviso in Italy was postponed LAST WEEK because they knew the pitch was going to be unplayable
How the f**k was a high profile match like this allowed to be on up until 2 mins before KO. Paris has been sub zero the whole of February, it wasnt likely to change on the stroke of 8PM tonight.
Feel sorry for the Fans who travelled up, and for 50% of the French fans who apparently travel from miles way
QuoteHow the f**k was a high profile match like this allowed to be on up until 2 mins before KO. Paris has been sub zero the whole of February, it wasnt likely to change on the stroke of 8PM tonight.
TV I'd say...
The French are a joke. I think it's safe to say that they could have called this days ago unless they were expecting an uncharacteristic heatwave to hit straight after a cold period! If they are to continue hosting matches in February they should be forcrd to put subsurface heating. It's not exactly new technology.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 11, 2012, 09:11:12 PM
QuoteHow the f**k was a high profile match like this allowed to be on up until 2 mins before KO. Paris has been sub zero the whole of February, it wasnt likely to change on the stroke of 8PM tonight.
TV I'd say...
That is probably it. I would say they had their schedules set a long time ago for a prime time saturday night game. In a natuaral sense they could and should have simply moved the game to 2 o clock on saturday and one o clock on sunday.
could you have played GAA on the French pitch?
I wouldn't attend a game in weather like that. I would be furious if they pulled a trick like that.
It was pathetic listening to the Ryle Nugents and Tony Wards fulminating about how it was a disgrace and how anyone would have known this was going to happen. I'd have been impressed if Ryle and Tony had been telling us this before it happened. Then they had a go at the ref. "Pearson inspected it yesterday and said it was OK." And? So it was OK yesterday. That's all the ref is required to say - it's playable or it's unplayable. Tonight it wasn't. He shouldn't be expected to be a wizard who can predict the future as well, especially when the French Met Office can't.
Of course it's stupid to be scheduling matches after dark in February if you don't have under-pitch heating. And the very least you should do in that situation is make a decision two days in advance. What's ridiculous altogether is that they're now saying they're going to reschedule it for a Friday NIGHT!
Frozen grass, iceberg lettuce
Why did they the band stay so long on the pitch?
Were the poor hoors frozen?
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on February 12, 2012, 12:43:53 AM
Why did they the band stay so long on the pitch?
Were the poor hoors frozen?
There's talk of the game being pushed out to June to facilitate the French clubs now, surely that'd be madness considering the 6N's should be over mid to late March!!
Quote from: johnneycool on February 14, 2012, 10:46:37 AM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on February 12, 2012, 12:43:53 AM
Why did they the band stay so long on the pitch?
Were the poor hoors frozen?
There's talk of the game being pushed out to June to facilitate the French clubs now, surely that'd be madness considering the 6N's should be over mid to late March!!
Great, O'Driscoll might be back.
They always beat us, but they also always lose finals. So we should play France for the National Debt, call it the World Bank Final and have Joubert ref it. We should also wear very very dark green.
It's on March 4th.
Quote from: Blue and White on February 24, 2012, 05:41:09 PM
Any views on tomorrows game? Castrogiovanni is a big loss for Italy but i'd still expect it to be a tight, tough game for at least 60 minutes. We really could be doing with a positive display with France coming down the tracks in a week. Though it probably won't happen but i'd love to see Tommy Bowe spend part of the game at 13 with Earls on the wing as I fear Rougerie is going to make hay next week with our current centre partnership. Any thoughts?
The way the game is going we should put Ferris at 12 & Sean O'Brien at 13.
Jaysus were pedestrian. The amount of mistakes is unreal. Can you imagine what France will do to us
Poor first half from Ireland. Murray needs to be a bit more snappy getting the ball away. Trying to play too much rugby in our own half especially when we don't have players to play such a game.
amazing joubert didnt ref McCaw like that in the WC final!!
Better second half though
I thought they'd struggle to cover the spread.
Refs are going to stop teams running down the clock by non stop recycling of the ball. That will improve the climax of a lot of games.
The Welsh won with a great try by Scott Williams. He butchered another chance earlier to win the game.
listening to this on rte.
Ireland seem to playing a massively high pressure game, can they keep it up.
Ireland 7 France 0
17 9 to Ireland
Jaysus
I was reading one of the French magazines re Saint Andre the coach and they weren't very complimentary.
17 to 14.
The French have really come out for the 2nd half.
French penalty to level it up
17/17
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/mediaplayer.html?liveradio#radio1
Rory Best couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo. Fuckin tit.
Earls has been very good today despite all his abuse.
Kearney is the best player on the pitch.
O'Brien excelling in the role of best penalty conceder. I'd say O'Callaghan must be shittin himself! ::) ::)
Sexton is an excellent tackler but can't kick or decide for shit.
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
A game we should have won. fuckin raging at the minute.
:( :( :( :(
Massively entertaining game, but as I'd thought unable to maintain it over both halves
Kearney was immense today. That is our second result in Paris in 40 years so it is hard to be disappointed. We did it without O'Driscoll as well.
Kearney was a cut above the rest today. He was at about 9 out of 10 playing the ball in difficult conditions. Everybody else was at best 7 out of 10.
Kearney was fantastic, really back to his best at this stage. That break in the second half was France-like.
Gordan D'Arcy won't be happy with his contribution to the French try, it looked like he was very hesitant in a 50-50 for the loose ball after the poor pass.
sloppy handling too.
Could have won. Could have beaten Wales as well.
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 04, 2012, 07:03:42 PM
Kearney was fantastic, really back to his best at this stage. That break in the second half was France-like.
Gordan D'Arcy won't be happy with his contribution to the French try, it looked like he was very hesitant in a 50-50 for the loose ball after the poor pass.
A bouncing ball can do that to a defender however Earls stupid fly-hack instead of going down on the ball and Kearney's poor attempt at defending were far more culpable for the try imo.
Defence was good, attack was poor. 11 points up and we didn't win - not good enough.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 05, 2012, 09:56:21 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 04, 2012, 07:03:42 PM
Kearney was fantastic, really back to his best at this stage. That break in the second half was France-like.
Gordan D'Arcy won't be happy with his contribution to the French try, it looked like he was very hesitant in a 50-50 for the loose ball after the poor pass.
A bouncing ball can do that to a defender however Earls stupid fly-hack instead of going down on the ball and Kearney's poor attempt at defending were far more culpable for the try imo.
Defence was good, attack was poor. 11 points up and we didn't win - not good enough.
Kearney had a great game otherwise, but he seemed to hesitate a bit for the French try.
Scrum was under immense pressure at times, thought Murry could have helped a bit by getting the ball in and out a lot quicker.
I'd say Murray is out for a while with the knee as his whole weight came down on it.
Scotland next?
One that got away in my opinion. Thought O'Gara should have been on earlier when the French were totally dominating territory after 15 minutes.
Defensively we were excellent but attack wise our 1st try was more opportunism than any great attacking play, the 2nd was borne out of some good play but again a bit lucky with the bounce of the ball. Having said that there were some heroic performances and Kearney was majestic at times both in defence and attack. As was said his kick and poor defence for the try were the only blots on what would otherwise have been a 10/10 performance.
I think the time has come to put D'Arcy out to pasture. He hasn't got it any more and is not the form Centre in Ireland at this stage. He shat himself for the try where he should have hurled himself at the ball. Had he been playing Gaelic he would be labelled 'yella' for the rest of his days for that. Also the spill when we were in a good attacking position was nigh on unforgiveable.
Penalty wise we were nailed quite a bit and were very lucky not to get anyone in the bin. I expect a tough examination against the Scots as their defence is excellent and I don't think we have the cutting edge to get through easily. It will be another battle and I'm quite looking forward to it but I think it will be won with the boot and Sexton would need to find his soon!!!
It wasn't a bad game.
I thought France had most to rue, near the end they had the ball, made the solid ground and should have converted one of those drop goal attempts. Maybe they are just human after all, same as Ireland - they were just totally wiped out after a tough game.
Is there still some hope for Sexton to fill Rog's boots properly?
I thought with all the pressure France were putting on in the 2nd half, it might have called for a different tactical approach from Ireland, namely from an out half with the accuracy to kick for touch and the skill to be set up for the drop goal attempt when Ireland did make it into their 25?
Its easy to say in retrospect that Ireland should have gone for the drop goal, as it then happened that neither side scored in the last 20 minutes. However at 17-17 and plenty of of game time left, you would still aim for tries.
Otherwise if you take a 3 point lead, you immediately oblige the French to go all out for a try. A try that would most likely win them the match. It just happened that Ireland blew a couple of great positions through poor handling and overthrown line outs.
Ireland were very lucky in the first half not to pick up a yellow card, so overall it was a decent result.
POC and Murray out for the rest of the 6 nations...
Best for Captain?
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 05, 2012, 04:44:04 PM
POC and Murray out for the rest of the 6 nations...
Best for Captain?
What's wrong with Paulie? Did Murray do his ligaments?
POC has done medial knee ligament damage (doubt for the HEC q/f now as well)
Murry has bone bruising.
Murray's a lucky boy to only be out for that length I was convinced it was an ACL. Thank God for that.
I would imagine Ryan will slot straight in beside DOC and Reddan into SH. O'Connell's work rate will be missed big time but I still think we should be able to beat Scotland without those 2.
Quote from: screenexile on March 05, 2012, 05:08:11 PM
Murray's a lucky boy to only be out for that length I was convinced it was an ACL. Thank God for that.
I would imagine Ryan will slot straight in beside DOC and Reddan into SH. O'Connell's work rate will be missed big time but I still think we should be able to beat Scotland without those 2.
You could hear Murray's cries on the television, I was sure it was a cruciate, possibly a career ender. Didn't see POC get an injury, suprised to hear he is out. Ryan and Reddan in I would imagine.
Surprised to hear that Best is being touted for the captaincy, he butchered vital throws on Sunday and a hooker who can't hit his jumper is like a out-half who can't kick, a scrum half who can't pass or a back-rower who can't tackle. In my eyes he is on dodgy ground.
O'Leary and Connacht's Mike McCarthy called into the squad...
Tommy Bowe's gone back to Ulster!! Big signing for them!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17274581
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 05, 2012, 04:52:29 PM
POC has done medial knee ligament damage (doubt for the HEC q/f now as well)
Murry has bone bruising.
Resting for the h- cup more like no point in flogging a dead horse
O'Brien gone now as well, O'Mahony to start.
Jennings on the bench ::)
That just takes the biscuit, I had just completed all my fantasy transfers when O Brien drops out with a foot infection.
A foot infection? The big soft shite :)
Quote from: Capt Pat on March 09, 2012, 02:41:28 PM
That just takes the biscuit, I had just completed all my fantasy transfers when O Brien drops out with a foot infection.
wouldnt matter, you wont win it anyway ;)
This is some slaughter. Haven't seen an irish pack bullied like this in a long time
When will players learn to keep their bakes shut pre-game. Free motivation for England.
No complaints today really, but we made way too many mistakes. Darcy shouldn't have been playing on current form. The ref gave a few bad decisionns against us as well and the scrum got demolished but it was our own stupid mistakes from start to finish that did us in.
PS. I completely disagree with the way the scrum is given too much importance by the refs. I don't understand why England deserve to get a free three points at the start of the game. The rules simply allow a stronger scrum to convert a scrum into a penalty which is not quite fair.
Quote from: Capt Pat on March 17, 2012, 07:03:50 PM
No complaints today really, but we made way too many mistakes. Darcy shouldn't have been playing on current form. The ref gave a few bad decisionns against us as well and the scrum got demolished but it was our own stupid mistakes from start to finish that did us in.
PS. I completely disagree with the way the scrum is given too much importance by the refs. I don't understand why England deserve to get a free three points at the start of the game. The rules simply allow a stronger scrum to convert a scrum into a penalty which is not quite fair.
Watch rugby league then!
Ireland were a shambles, Kidney has run his course.
Embarassing....
Scum was a disaster, humaliating in that second half....
I know all my other comments are based on with a scum in full retreat but - O'Leary was shocking when he came, barely done anything right...
D'arcy is gone and O'Callaghan not far behind him - Ryan has to start. end of discussion on that matter....
What are those players there for. They have run their course and given great service but it is time to build towards the next world cup.
Probably the worst Ireland performance since the 90's. The scrum was an utter embarrassment and unfortunately for Ireland it was a wet day and greasy ball which led to loads of scrums. England didn't have to do much bar keep scrummaging to win the game easily.
Kidney needs a boot up the hole. Persisting with O'Leary who is barely AIL standard anymore and Darcy who despite being a great servant is now so far over the hill it's actually unfair to keep putting him out there. Kidney won't change though so get rid.
Slightly off topic following this evenings disappointing game, but could some of the more knowledgeable Irish rugby fans let me know who they think is the next big Irish Rugby Union Star?
Probably the worst Irish scrummaging performance since Twickenham in 1986 when England bulldozed over a couple of pushover tries from the '22.
I'd say it's game over for Kidney. The ultra-conservatism is starting to bite. If he's left in charge, the average age of the team will increase one year for every year he's left there. A couple of years back Munster were left with a team crammed with over 30s and in serious need of rebuilding.
Some of the Irish players might regret the remarks they made about England during the week. The best thing to do is let your performances do the talking.
Thought something had happened alright in that first half... I reckon the Ref knew something was up too
QuoteThe one sour note for England was an allegation of biting made by Ireland against an unnamed player which could, if proven, have serious ramifications.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/sixnations/2012/0317/ireland_england_sixnations_report.html
Quote from: Celt_Man on March 17, 2012, 09:11:27 PM
Thought something had happened alright in that first half... I reckon the Ref knew something was up too
QuoteThe one sour note for England was an allegation of biting made by Ireland against an unnamed player which could, if proven, have serious ramifications.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/sixnations/2012/0317/ireland_england_sixnations_report.html
Bet any money it's Hartley.
Well done England on gaining common-wealth sports & olympic games advantage by granting british citizenship to the best atheletes from 3rd world ex-empire nations. Ireland to follow!
Quote from: Celt_Man on March 17, 2012, 09:11:27 PM
Thought something had happened alright in that first half... I reckon the Ref knew something was up too
QuoteThe one sour note for England was an allegation of biting made by Ireland against an unnamed player which could, if proven, have serious ramifications.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/sixnations/2012/0317/ireland_england_sixnations_report.html
Not good form from whoever is responsible.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on March 17, 2012, 09:13:17 PM
Quote from: Celt_Man on March 17, 2012, 09:11:27 PM
Thought something had happened alright in that first half... I reckon the Ref knew something was up too
QuoteThe one sour note for England was an allegation of biting made by Ireland against an unnamed player which could, if proven, have serious ramifications.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/sixnations/2012/0317/ireland_england_sixnations_report.html
Bet any money it's Hartley.
It was, he is a nut job. Bite on DOC. Could be looking at a long ban if they find evidence with his past form.
Quote from: Oak Leafer on March 17, 2012, 08:27:49 PM
Slightly off topic following this evenings disappointing game, but could some of the more knowledgeable Irish rugby fans let me know who they think is the next big Irish Rugby Union Star?
Luke McGrath scrum half leinster. He's perfect.
Quote from: Celt_Man on March 17, 2012, 07:30:26 PM
Embarassing....
Scum was a disaster, humaliating in that second half....
I know all my other comments are based on with a scum in full retreat but - O'Leary was shocking when he came, barely done anything right...
D'arcy is gone and O'Callaghan not far behind him - Ryan has to start. end of discussion on that matter....
Agree - D'arcy way off the mark for a couple of seasons now, DOC a liability..
But who can come in?
Thank f**k this shite is over for another year!!
Ronan O'Gara @Ronan_OGara
Breaking news guys.. wanted to leave it until after six nations. Just been confirmed moving to Toulon on a two year deal!
Fake Account
Ooops. The 3,600 followers should have warned me. :-[
Quote from: Leo on March 18, 2012, 12:52:17 AM
Quote from: Celt_Man on March 17, 2012, 07:30:26 PM
Embarassing....
Scum was a disaster, humaliating in that second half....
I know all my other comments are based on with a scum in full retreat but - O'Leary was shocking when he came, barely done anything right...
D'arcy is gone and O'Callaghan not far behind him - Ryan has to start. end of discussion on that matter....
Agree - D'arcy way off the mark for a couple of seasons now, DOC a liability..
But who can come in?
Anybody who has watched Ireland in the last two or three years has been able to see that D'Arcy is not the player he was. Unlike in the scrum, we have other options in this position. So why the fcuk does Kidney continue to select him?
f**king disgusting....
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/sixnations/2012/0317/ferriss_sixnations_biting.html
'Biting' accusation to be investigated
Ireland flanker Stephen Ferris accused an England player of biting his finger during tonight's RBS 6 Nations match at Twickenham.
The allegation was made to referee Nigel Owens in the 28th minute of England's 30-9 victory.
Owens did not see the incident but confirmed to the two captains, Chris Robshaw and Rory Best, that it would be looked into after the match.
England will know by Monday evening whether a citing has been brought by the independent match commissioner.
Addressing Robshaw and Best, Owens said: "I have an accusation of biting, a clear mark on the finger. I did not see something. If I do it will be dealt with severely, which would be a red card.
"It could be dealt with afterwards. If it is seen it will be dealt with. I did not see it.
"Have a word. Nothing like that takes place in this game. I can only deal with what I see. Have a word please.
"I have had a look. Unless I can see it, it's been dealt with, okay?"
As the two forward packs then set themselves for a scrum, Owens added: "This game is difficult enough without stuff like that, is that clear?"
Owens then approached Ferris while he was receiving treatment from the physio and said: "I have done all I can. It has been noted. If I don't see it I can't do nothing about it. It has been spoken about and dealt with."
Robshaw insisted after the game that he had not seen anything untoward on the pitch.
Asked how he would react if one of England's players had bitten an opponent, Robshaw said: "It is one of those things we will have to address when we meet up, but at the moment it is innocent until proven guilty, so to speak.
"We will see what happens."
Under International Rugby Board regulations, the lowest entry level suspension for biting is 12 weeks with the maximum being four years.
Quite annoying that it takes a hammering to the Saxons to make people wake up and smell the shit. Load of f**king bandwagoners pointing out all the faults.
Firstly in Kidney's defence we were hammered by the scrum yesterday. It turned a defeat into a tanking. This is heavily compounded by the fact that the first choice front row of all 4 provinces consists of at least one south African. We can't produce international scrummagers so now we have decided we won't. Secondly, the English cap every blow-in that crosses customs at Heathrow they have the upper hand on us there. This isn't really Kidney's fault though his attitude at Munster wouldn't have helped.
After that the problems that have hampered us all season continued. D'Arcy poor again. A back row that play no part in rucking or counter-rucking. O'Mahoney needed or a player like him. Ferris is a tackler and crasher, he's no rucker. DOC poor but injuries meant he was gonna play. See Ryan's counter-rucking in the english half? That is what our pack needs, not fancy ball-carriers who can do nothing without it. O'Brien is a busted flush. Crash it up, do it again, and again and infinitum. O'Leary? Couldn't hit a barn-door with a banjo. Kicking and passing was awful. O'Gara could do little, a useful back-up option but facing a team as physical as the english he was going to be no game-changer yesterday, really need to start considering him as back up and realise that over the next two years he is going to be faded out to retirement.
The positives? Earls had another good game yesterday to add to a fine 6 nations. Kearney was the best FB in the championship, Bowe a talented if frustrating wing, Trimble an extremely physical player and for a Irishman with a non-GAA background is very competent in the air.
So a back 4 of youth and potential.
Need a inside centre. It's not D'Arcy, doesn't look like McFadden. Fitzgerald an option for the dreamer in us. I would love a strong physical 12 that has been so successful for the English and Welsh. it pains me to say it but Mafi? Cave is an outside centre and we don't need a square peg.
Reddan is the best 9. Murray a good alternative.
Sexton a mixed bag, not easy playing off a beaten scrum.
O'Brien or Heaslip have to go. We have 3 back-rowers all competing for the same job on the pitch. The French play 3 all having different strengths, Bonnaire a technician, Harry a fetcher and carrier, and Dusaitour who is a tackler/athlete. Faletau carries for the Welsh whilst Lydiate rucks and Warbuton tackles. We have 3 carriers and have been beaten by all but the Italian back row.
Trileac, I've read and re-read that and all I'm actually getting from it is that you would pick a quite different team to Kidney, but one that would also get spanked more often than not in Twickenham.
The problem is not so much Kidney's personnel as a lack of genuine options.
Quote from: thewobbler on March 18, 2012, 02:32:23 PM
Trileac, I've read and re-read that and all I'm actually getting from it is that you would pick a quite different team to Kidney, but one that would also get spanked more often than not in Twickenham.
The problem is not so much Kidney's personnel as a lack of genuine options.
So what is your solution? I'm not picking a team, just suggesting options and reviewing our player performances.
Is substandard personnel and a lack of genuine options not just one and the same thing?
Quote from: trileacman on March 18, 2012, 01:44:31 PM
Quite annoying that it takes a hammering to the Saxons to make people wake up and smell the shit. Load of f**king bandwagoners pointing out all the faults.
Firstly in Kidney's defence we were hammered by the scrum yesterday. It turned a defeat into a tanking. This is heavily compounded by the fact that the first choice front row of all 4 provinces consists of at least one south African. We can't produce international scrummagers so now we have decided we won't. Secondly, the English cap every blow-in that crosses customs at Heathrow they have the upper hand on us there. This isn't really Kidney's fault though his attitude at Munster wouldn't have helped.
After that the problems that have hampered us all season continued. D'Arcy poor again. A back row that play no part in rucking or counter-rucking. O'Mahoney needed or a player like him. Ferris is a tackler and crasher, he's no rucker. DOC poor but injuries meant he was gonna play. See Ryan's counter-rucking in the english half? That is what our pack needs, not fancy ball-carriers who can do nothing without it. O'Brien is a busted flush. Crash it up, do it again, and again and infinitum. O'Leary? Couldn't hit a barn-door with a banjo. Kicking and passing was awful. O'Gara could do little, a useful back-up option but facing a team as physical as the english he was going to be no game-changer yesterday, really need to start considering him as back up and realise that over the next two years he is going to be faded out to retirement.
The positives? Earls had another good game yesterday to add to a fine 6 nations. Kearney was the best FB in the championship, Bowe a talented if frustrating wing, Trimble an extremely physical player and for a Irishman with a non-GAA background is very competent in the air.
So a back 4 of youth and potential.
Need a inside centre. It's not D'Arcy, doesn't look like McFadden. Fitzgerald an option for the dreamer in us. I would love a strong physical 12 that has been so successful for the English and Welsh. it pains me to say it but Mafi? Cave is an outside centre and we don't need a square peg.
Reddan is the best 9. Murray a good alternative.
Sexton a mixed bag, not easy playing off a beaten scrum.
O'Brien or Heaslip have to go. We have 3 back-rowers all competing for the same job on the pitch. The French play 3 all having different strengths, Bonnaire a technician, Harry a fetcher and carrier, and Dusaitour who is a tackler/athlete. Faletau carries for the Welsh whilst Lydiate rucks and Warbuton tackles. We have 3 carriers and have been beaten by all but the Italian back row.
Rob Kearney 26 in two weeks.
Andrew Trimble 27 since Oct.
Tommy Bowe 28.
Keith Earls 24.
Not as young as you might think. It takes forever to get into the Irish team, and it seems, forever to get out of it.
North of Wales, O'Connor of Australia and Farrell of England were all younger than O'Driscoll was when was when he got his first cap on tour. If he didn't happen to be the greatest player Ireland produced, he probably wouldn't have been trusted with a cap till he was much older while the likes of North, O'Connor and Farrell are deservedly racking up the caps. Gatland was the last manager to throw in a bunch of new caps, 5 in one match in 2000. Their names were John Hayes, Peter Stringer, Shane Horgan, Simon Easterby and Ronan O'Gara. After a decade of O'Sullivan and Kidney we would die of shock at the notion of picking 5 new caps in one 6 Nations game.
We have some players who have been great servants but who are long past their sell-by dates and, damningly for Kidney, have young alternatives who deserve their shot. We might disagree on who should get a run, but we would all come up with names.
In the bigger scheme of things those autumn internationals should be used to blood young lads. Who realistically gives a flying f**k if they're won.
Time to ship some young props in the provinces to SA or New Zealand to learn their trade.
Quote from: johnneycool on March 18, 2012, 03:41:15 PM
In the bigger scheme of things those autumn internationals should be used to blood young lads. Who realistically gives a flying f**k if they're won.
Time to ship some young props in the provinces to SA or New Zealand to learn their trade.
Meh, Courts an Anzac and Hayes toured the South Hemisphere too, not the be all end all you would think. English props and the Italian are currently the best in the 6 nations, didn't have to crawl the world to learn it.
QuoteThis is heavily compounded by the fact that the first choice front row of all 4 provinces consists of at least one south African. We can't produce international scrummagers so now we have decided we won't.
Sweeping statement alert, Leinster provide Healy, Ross and Cronin to the match 22, are they expected to provide the whole front row? And to add to that they have Strauss Irish qualified later this year and Jamie O'Hagan has played as much game time as Mike Ross and Jack McGrath is progressing nicely. Leinster are one province pulling their weight, Ulster replaced one non-Irish eligible TH with another, and he went to Munster.
I was at the game in Twickenham in 2000 we were hammered 50-18, Gatland laid the foundations for the future as Muppet points out with 5 new caps in the next game. That is what needs to be done bottom line, a cull needs to happen. Out goes DOC, Heaslip, Cullen, Court, D'Arcy, O'Leary and O'Gara for starters.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 18, 2012, 06:47:50 PM
QuoteThis is heavily compounded by the fact that the first choice front row of all 4 provinces consists of at least one south African. We can't produce international scrummagers so now we have decided we won't.
Sweeping statement alert, Leinster provide Healy, Ross and Cronin to the match 22, are they expected to provide the whole front row? And to add to that they have Strauss Irish qualified later this year and Jamie O'Hagan has played as much game time as Mike Ross and Jack McGrath is progressing nicely. Leinster are one province pulling their weight, Ulster replaced one non-Irish eligible TH with another, and he went to Munster.
I was at the game in Twickenham in 2000 we were hammered 50-18, Gatland laid the foundations for the future as Muppet points out with 5 new caps in the next game. That is what needs to be done bottom line, a cull needs to happen. Out goes DOC, Heaslip, Cullen, Court, D'Arcy, O'Leary and O'Gara for starters.
Cronin they bought from Connacht, they didn't develop him as he grew up in Munster and played with Shannon. He isn't the first choice option at Leinster as a South African plays consistently at hooker. So my statement stands "the first choice front row of all 4 provinces consists of at least one south African." Add to that Heinke is at Leinster and before Healy and Ross came along Leinster's front row was dominated by mostly hired talent. Stan Wright, Ollie le Roux, Van der Linde (who didn't play much but was still signed) and to a lesser extent Will Green. Yeah leinster are way ahead of the other sides when it comes to trying to develop front row forwards. ::) Christ why must discussion be so blinded by provincial loyalty.
Trileac I'm still not sure what your angst is all about.
I'd be pretty sure if you asked Provincial guardians whether they'd rather spend buckets of money getting in a foreign loose head prop who nobody pays to watch, or spend that money on a fly half or a winger who puts bums on seats, then they're always going to say the latter.
Truth is, there's been very, very few front row forwards of note been generated in Irish rugby for a couple of decades now. This isn't so much an issue with the provinces as with the schools and clubs that feed them. Ulster aren't buying in the South Africa pack because they're a cheap option, they're buying them in because they can't compete up front with home grown players alone.
Giving off about this solves nothing.
All I'm getting from you Trileac is problems, not solutions. If you can recognise that the players aren't there then you should change your tone from anger/disappointment to something more accepting of the situation.
Ireland can, and will, give anyone a game in their day. Thus us remarkable, and should be applauded - not run down.
Quotea cull needs to happen. Out goes DOC, Heaslip, Cullen, Court, D'Arcy, O'Leary and O'Gara for starters.
How long has Heaslip been playing?
Cull O'Gara?
say it ain't so.
Quote from: Denn Forever on March 18, 2012, 10:12:45 PM
Quotea cull needs to happen. Out goes DOC, Heaslip, Cullen, Court, D'Arcy, O'Leary and O'Gara for starters.
How long has Heaslip been playing?
bout 4-5 years. Why?
Quote from: thewobbler on March 18, 2012, 09:39:30 PM
Trileac I'm still not sure what your angst is all about.
I'd be pretty sure if you asked Provincial guardians whether they'd rather spend buckets of money getting in a foreign loose head prop who nobody pays to watch, or spend that money on a fly half or a winger who puts bums on seats, then they're always going to say the latter.
Truth is, there's been very, very few front row forwards of note been generated in Irish rugby for a couple of decades now. This isn't so much an issue with the provinces as with the schools and clubs that feed them. Ulster aren't buying in the South Africa pack because they're a cheap option, they're buying them in because they can't compete up front with home grown players alone.
Giving off about this solves nothing.
All I'm getting from you Trileac is problems, not solutions. If you can recognise that the players aren't there then you should change your tone from anger/disappointment to something more accepting of the situation.
Ireland can, and will, give anyone a game in their day. Thus us remarkable, and should be applauded - not run down.
I seen us get beat on Sunday by the English following defeat to Wales and and a draw with the French. I'm merely highlighting faults and suggesting possible solutions. They mightn't be the right ones but there still suggestions.
You seem to be saying that we should just sit on our hands and say "aw hard luck lads, sure we done great to come as far as this." What is wrong with suggesting that in certain area's we are not preforming as well as we could and that we could possibly improve? ???
Quoteanger/disappointment
What anger?? I'm not advocating the execution of anyone or burning them out of their houses, what is that supposed to mean?
QuoteIf you can recognise that the players aren't there then you should change your tone from anger/disappointment to something more accepting of the situation.
So I should just accept that we got beaten and believe that we don't have the players, resources or tactics to do any better?
QuoteAll I'm getting from you Trileac is problems, not solutions.
Here is a solution then, stop the provinces from filling top-level front row positions with non-Irish players. If the provinces performances start to suffer from a lack of quality scrummagers then they will take a more active and interested approach in the development and training of quality young players. Their wouldn't have to be a blanket ban but they could curtail the constant turn-over of stop-gap journeymen who make it through the squads of Munster, Leinster and Ulster. Then perhaps there would be greater opportunities for the young Irish scrummagers that Dinny named at the top of the page to develop.
That's just an idea though to go some way to aid our scrum.
Here is another "solution" for you. Play a more traditional 7, such as Peter O'Mahoney, in the back row to help our counter-rucking and defence. Or play your form players, such as Donncha Ryan, from the start of the championship. Or we could employ a consistent defensive strategy instead of drifting against the Welsh one week and rushing the French a few weeks later. Or we could have seen that we had a inside centre not up to the task of international rugby and looked for alternatives such as Bowe, McFadden, Trimble or some of the other Ulster lads.
Or maybe I should just sit back, ignore all that and say there's nothing that can be done.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 18, 2012, 06:47:50 PM
QuoteThis is heavily compounded by the fact that the first choice front row of all 4 provinces consists of at least one south African. We can't produce international scrummagers so now we have decided we won't.
Sweeping statement alert, Leinster provide Healy, Ross and Cronin to the match 22, are they expected to provide the whole front row? And to add to that they have Strauss Irish qualified later this year and Jamie O'Hagan has played as much game time as Mike Ross and Jack McGrath is progressing nicely. Leinster are one province pulling their weight, Ulster replaced one non-Irish eligible TH with another, and he went to Munster.
I was at the game in Twickenham in 2000 we were hammered 50-18, Gatland laid the foundations for the future as Muppet points out with 5 new caps in the next game. That is what needs to be done bottom line, a cull needs to happen. Out goes DOC, Heaslip, Cullen, Court, D'Arcy, O'Leary and O'Gara for starters.
I would hope that Cullen and O'Leary have been put to pasture, forgiving some huge injury crisis. DOC and D'Arcy are finished, if Kidney doesn't realise that then he should be told to get his coat. O'Gara is on his way out, the idea in everyone's mind should be that by the end of next years 6 nations he probably shouldn't be in an Ireland squad. Court is there until alternatives can be provided, especially one who has the reputation if not the skill-set to play on both sides of the scrum.
Heaslip is nowhere near the standard he was at 2-3 years ago but like most attacking 8's he needs to be playing of a winning pack. I think only two of Ferris, Heaslip and O'Brien can be retained. Ferris is a natural born blindside, as is Heaslip at no. 8. I believe O'Brien is really an 8 as well but since Heaslip has beat him to that shirt at Leinster he is playing as the makeshift 6. I don't think he has the physicality in the tackle though to be a true 6. What Ireland really need is a 7 though, someone to secure our own rucks and threaten the opposition's.
Quote from: trileacman on March 18, 2012, 08:41:45 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 18, 2012, 06:47:50 PM
QuoteThis is heavily compounded by the fact that the first choice front row of all 4 provinces consists of at least one south African. We can't produce international scrummagers so now we have decided we won't.
Sweeping statement alert, Leinster provide Healy, Ross and Cronin to the match 22, are they expected to provide the whole front row? And to add to that they have Strauss Irish qualified later this year and Jamie O'Hagan has played as much game time as Mike Ross and Jack McGrath is progressing nicely. Leinster are one province pulling their weight, Ulster replaced one non-Irish eligible TH with another, and he went to Munster.
I was at the game in Twickenham in 2000 we were hammered 50-18, Gatland laid the foundations for the future as Muppet points out with 5 new caps in the next game. That is what needs to be done bottom line, a cull needs to happen. Out goes DOC, Heaslip, Cullen, Court, D'Arcy, O'Leary and O'Gara for starters.
Cronin they bought from Connacht, they didn't develop him as he grew up in Munster and played with Shannon. He isn't the first choice option at Leinster as a South African plays consistently at hooker. So my statement stands "the first choice front row of all 4 provinces consists of at least one south African." Add to that Heinke is at Leinster and before Healy and Ross came along Leinster's front row was dominated by mostly hired talent. Stan Wright, Ollie le Roux, Van der Linde (who didn't play much but was still signed) and to a lesser extent Will Green. Yeah leinster are way ahead of the other sides when it comes to trying to develop front row forwards. ::) Christ why must discussion be so blinded by provincial loyalty.
It's not about provincial loyalty it's about simple facts. I'll share something with you when O'Hagan, Cronin and Carr arrived from Connacht their conditioning was awful and Leinster have had to waste a season on getting them up to speed. Leinster provide 3 of the 5 front row forwards in an Irish squad, that will not change when Strauss qualifies. O'Hagan and McGrath will be close to pushing Healy next season, so Leinster's 1st choice, 2nd choice props next season will all be Irish qualified as will their 3 hookers. What more do you expect them to do in that matter?
Anyhow apart from our issues at TH the provinces are doing a pretty decent job, the problem with Irish rugby is the conservative selection policy of the last 10 years where we have won a paltry one 6 nations title despite having won 5 Heineken Cups in the same period. France have won 5, England 4 and Wales 3 in the that period, apart from England in 2003 I can honestly say imho those countries did not have better players than Ireland but what they did have is better coaches. We An Béal Bocht too much have under achieved and will continue to do say with Mr Passion and Loyalty at the helm. Interesting stat - Declan Kidney has selected Donnacha O'Callaghan more that any other Irish player, he is really that much better than Touhy, Ryan, Cullen or McCarthy that they never get rotated in or a shot at the jersey? Plus his selection of O'Leary is mind blowing, he has only started 6 times for Munster and is in awful awful form and seeing him play must really hurt someone like Marshall, who is having a great season for Ulster.
As for Jamie Heaslip, he needs a kick up the arse, I honestly thought he was a future Irish captain and majorly disappointed with him.
Leinster use O'Brien completely different than Ireland, he carries off 3rd and 4th phase for Leinster but Ireland we barely go 3 phases before we kick it away. O'Brien is a six and had a better season last year at 6 for Ireland than Ferris ever achieved but I think Ferris is the better player so no quibble there.
And if anyone think Peter O'Mahony is a natural 7 they are wrong, he's played hardly any rugby in that position , the most natural 7 in Ireland at the moment is Dominic Ryan.
I don't recall offhand an Irish scrum so easily and consistently steamrolled in a game. It was devastating.
On the dropping of O'Gara. That has to be inconsequential. Is he not already in the background? Sexton has the first spot and has demonstrated especially in the last 2 games in the crucial penalty kicking, that he has grown in the required confidence.
There is no need to even mention dropping O'Gara as if his presence there was something to be cured, O'Gara is already in the background.
Kidney:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNzpBJzCOGI&feature=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNzpBJzCOGI&feature=relmfu)
An Ulster view:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOjXUCM9K04&feature=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOjXUCM9K04&feature=relmfu)
Dinny
conservative selection policy of the last 10 years where we have won a paltry one 6 nations title despite having won 5 Heineken Cups in the same period. France have won 5, England 4 and Wales 3 in the that period
That's 12 titles plus Ireland's one in 10 years. Is that possible?
Quote from: seafoid on March 19, 2012, 02:36:50 PM
Dinny
conservative selection policy of the last 10 years where we have won a paltry one 6 nations title despite having won 5 Heineken Cups in the same period. France have won 5, England 4 and Wales 3 in the that period
That's 12 titles plus Ireland's one in 10 years. Is that possible?
Sorry 12 years of the six nations, 10 years of conservative coaching since Gatland was axed.
Felt sorry for Tom Court on saturday, he is a decent club level loose head, he is not and never will be a decent club level tight head never mind international class. The problem is he is the closest thing we have to being able to play across the front row and he is as far a away as a lighthouse at that. Maybe if the international rules were changed to include 2 prop replacements ala heinekin cup, this would help the irish scrum but until this we are in serious trouble in the scrum if Ross gets injured.
On the rest of the team and game on saturday it was dreadful. Dinny is right in that we need to rid a 3rd of the team and bring in fresh talent. This is what id like to see start against the all blacks in june but declan kidney will never pick this team
Kearney
Bowe
Cave
O Driscoll
Earls
Sexton
Reddan
O Brien
O Mahoney
Ferris
O Connell
Ryan
Ross
Best
Healy
Id also like to see the likes of Paddy McAllister, Dominic Ryan, Eoin O Malley, Nevin Spence, Eoin Madigan and Dave Kearney brought on tour and O Gara, Darcy, O Callaghan, Jennings, and O Leary told thanks for ur time but that is it.
Not a chance it will happen though. Could you imagine how many grand slams we could have won and how we would have went in 2 world cups if steady eddie hadnt of sneaked his way into Gatlands job.
And by the way trileacman Ulster dont have a south african prop.............they do have an all black one though ;)
Quote from: muppet on March 19, 2012, 02:29:04 PM
Kidney:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNzpBJzCOGI&feature=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNzpBJzCOGI&feature=relmfu)
An Ulster view:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOjXUCM9K04&feature=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOjXUCM9K04&feature=relmfu)
Love that Ulster accent!
Quotehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxFSLrfQ7rA
Hartley has previous disciplinary issues and this latest one will not go down well.
England hooker Dylan Hartley faces a disciplinary hearing after being cited for an alleged biting incident during the Six Nations match against Ireland.
The Irish flanker Stephen Ferris drew attention to it during the first half of the match, but the referee Nigel Owens did not see anything himself.
The lowest suspension for biting is 12 weeks, the top entry level 24 weeks, with a maximum sanction of four years.
An independent Six Nations disciplinary committee will hear the case.
Dirty bastard
How timely is this ?
The IRFU advertised for the newly established role of high performance scrum coach, just days after Ireland's scrummaging skills were exposed in a 30-9 Six Nations defeat by England.
The job, posted on the Leinster and Munster provincial websites, called on applicants with "a complete and thorough understanding of rugby union" to plan, research and constantly evaluate current scrummaging practice.
Ireland lost scrum after scrum on Saturday and watching television pundits in Dublin even expressed their concern for the safety of replacement tighthead prop Tom Court after the Ulsterman was put under relentless pressure.
The successful candidate will be chiefly responsible for implementing a new scrum programme at the country's academies that, despite producing the likes of flyhalf Jonathan Sexton and flanker Sean O'Brien, have had only one major frontrow graduate in the shape of looshead Cian Healy
The other thing that Ireland should be campaigning for is a change to the replacements rules that allows teams to select a loosehead and tighthead in the subs. It's equivalent to being made to select either a flyhalf over a scrumhalf or a back row against a lock. The positions aren't as interchangeable as rugby's powers that be might think. For player welfare if nothing else.
what would have happened if either of the two front rows had got yellow carded?
Would the scrums from then on be uncontested or has that been done away with?
Yep uncontested.
Since beating South Africa in 2009, Ireland have 5 wins from 19 games against top 8 opposition (Wales, England 6N 2010, Argentina Nov 2010, England 6N 2011, Australia RWC 2011) - that's a pretty poor record for a team with higher pretensions and solid recent history. That's as bad a record as Scotland, against whom we're 2-2 in the same period.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 20, 2012, 02:21:01 PM
Yep uncontested.
Since beating South Africa in 2009, Ireland have 5 wins from 19 games against top 8 opposition (Wales, England 6N 2010, Argentina Nov 2010, England 6N 2011, Australia RWC 2011) - that's a pretty poor record for a team with higher pretensions and solid recent history. That's as bad a record as Scotland, against whom we're 2-2 in the same period.
Then Tom Court should have went down holding his neck after the first scrum started going backwards at a rate of noughts. No one would have questioned whether it was genuine or not as it looked a bit perilous to be in that front row with that going on.
:o
Quote from: johnneycool on March 20, 2012, 01:10:45 PM
what would have happened if either of the two front rows had got yellow carded?
Would the scrums from then on be uncontested or has that been done away with?
There was some chat about that possibility (uncontested scrums) with the RTE commentators when one of the front rows went down injured and was receiving attention. But there was an audible hint of an acceptable 'should go off injured regardless'.
I was indeed alarmed that such overt cheating was alluded to and not to mention the crazy context of all the world seeing we were being ruthlessly steamrolled in the scrums.
'Death before dishonour' and those rugby lad surely died ;D
Why had Gatland such a desperate record with Ireland? Obviously he's proven his coaching prowess since.
In his last 2 seasons with Ireland, was it only England that were beaten in the 6N (Italy apart)?
The team (on paper) didn't look so bad then.
Quote from: Main Street on March 20, 2012, 03:32:50 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 20, 2012, 01:10:45 PM
what would have happened if either of the two front rows had got yellow carded?
Would the scrums from then on be uncontested or has that been done away with?
There was some chat about that possibility (uncontested scrums) with the RTE commentators when one of the front rows went down injured and was receiving attention. But there was an audible hint of an acceptable 'should go off injured regardless'.
I was indeed alarmed that such overt cheating was alluded to and not to mention the crazy context of all the world seeing we were being ruthlessly steamrolled in the scrums.
'Death before dishonour' and those rugby lad surely died ;D
All the same it would have been lovely to hear Brian Moore gurning if they'd pulled that stunt.
Quote from: Main Street on March 20, 2012, 03:37:28 PM
Why had Gatland such a desperate record with Ireland? Obviously he's proven his coaching prowess since.
In his last 2 seasons with Ireland, was it only England that were beaten in the 6N (Italy apart)?
The team (on paper) didn't look so bad then.
It wasn't desperate at all, he had completely turned around an Irish culture of winning one 5 nations game a year and struggling to embrace professionalism to winning 4 out of 5 including wins over France and England in his last season 2001. Foot and mouth ruined our best chance of a grand slam in 50 years. His only blot was the 1999 World Cup and the Lens debacle and the infamous 14 man line-out (he's a very innovative coach).
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 20, 2012, 03:51:05 PM
the infamous 14 man line-out (he's a very innovative coach).
huh?? Please explain??
It's nothing that we didn't know already lads I don't know why everyone was so surprised. Without Mike Ross in our scrum we're ket, we were ket before he came in and we're ket now he's injured. Healy is a complete liability in the scrum even when Ross is in there as he gives away serious penalties (no doubting his ability in the loose though). The whole of Ireland knows this and has known this. Mike Ross' influence has turned us into a capable scrummaging force but unfortunately this has not led to us strengthening our depth in this area which we should have done.
He's 31 at this stage so we may hope that we can unearth another Mike Ross in the next 2/3 years as well as a decent backup for Healy . . . or we could find ourselves in the Scotland/Italy bracket before too much time!!
Was that against the US or someone Dinny? Ireland got a lineout near the try line, and they basically put everyone in the lineout, apart from the hooker who was throwing. They were trying to maul it over the line. I don't think it worked though, but it should have. :)
Edit: It was Argentina in that horror show in Lens.
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 20, 2012, 04:09:47 PM
Was that against the US or someone Dinny? Ireland got a lineout near the try line, and they basically put everyone in the lineout, apart from the hooker who was throwing. They were trying to maul it over the line. I don't think it worked though, but it should have. :)
Edit: It was Argentina in that horror show in Lens.
Go to 10 minutes in, in the youtube clip below, he had used it before successfully with Connacht but is now used as a stick to beat him with..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYSQG74Tue0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYSQG74Tue0)
Could the ref not have awarded a penalty try at the end of that Pumas game? They were conceding penalty after penalty at the end.
On the scrum, I don't know an awful lot but Paddy Heaney quoted Jim Neilly in todays IN as saying Owens was letting England gain illegal advantage by moving their feet prior to engagement time after time, thus handing them an advantage. Owens from what I have seen of him in HC and RD competitions should be reffing GAA he' knows as much about it's rules as he does rugby.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 20, 2012, 04:34:54 PM
Could the ref not have awarded a penalty try at the end of that Pumas game? They were conceding penalty after penalty at the end.
The penalty try directive for continuous infringement in the 'red zone' was not in place, so teams could literally give away penalties all day and the sin bin was introduced till directly after this World Cup.
My rugby referee inspector friend claims the England loose head was boring in on Court in every scrum, and 90% of referees would have penalised him.
The 14 man lineout was also tried in a 6 Nations defeat to Wales at Lansdowne Rd IIRC. I don't think it worked that day either.
Getting rid of Gatland was a very poor piece of judgement by the IRFU.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on March 20, 2012, 05:14:44 PM
The 14 man lineout was also tried in a 6 Nations defeat to Wales at Lansdowne Rd IIRC. I don't think it worked that day either.
Getting rid of Gatland was a very poor piece of judgement by the IRFU.
You have to wonder how many Grand Slams Ireland would have won if they had the Gatland/Edwards team in charge all these years. They won one without them but they would certainly have at least 2. Maybe even 3.
Gatland probably got a the Ireland gig a bit too early in his management career.
He wasn't afraid to try different new things. 14 man line outs as mentioned.
On a tour of South Africa, he got the Irish players to slap on fake tan, reckoning it would make them look more imposing to their South African opponents.
He recently learned the art of keeping his mouth shut before games, something which a few Irish players seemed to forget last week.
My impression as an outsider is that in rugby unconventional things are not always instantly embraced.
It sticks tighter to formula than other sports. Mostly explainable, but certainly not bindingly so.
Clive Woodward once recounted how he ended up on the slippery slope with London Irish by reversing the jersey number order of his team to discourage his own players from simply playing the game by numbers. The blazers upstairs complained that the opposition would be confused about which opponent to pick up.
Anyway, back to Gatland. His cards were probably marked after Lens in 1999 and the 50-18 whupping by England in 2000. Losing to Scotland and not holding onto a lead against New Zealand in Autumn 2001 gave the IRFU the flimsy reason they needed to sack him.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 20, 2012, 05:32:54 PM
Anyway, back to Gatland. His cards were probably marked after Lens in 1999 and the 50-18 whupping by England in 2000. Losing to Scotland and not holding onto a lead against New Zealand in Autumn 2001 gave the IRFU the flimsy reason they needed to sack him.
Plus O'Sullivan was agitating behind his back anyway.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 20, 2012, 03:51:05 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 20, 2012, 03:37:28 PM
Why had Gatland such a desperate record with Ireland? Obviously he's proven his coaching prowess since.
In his last 2 seasons with Ireland, was it only England that were beaten in the 6N (Italy apart)?
The team (on paper) didn't look so bad then.
It wasn't desperate at all, he had completely turned around an Irish culture of winning one 5 nations game a year and struggling to embrace professionalism to winning 4 out of 5 including wins over France and England in his last season 2001. Foot and mouth ruined our best chance of a grand slam in 50 years. His only blot was the 1999 World Cup and the Lens debacle and the infamous 14 man line-out (he's a very innovative coach).
Thanks for putting me right, I must have been mixing up his stint with the coach before him, it's all a bit of a blur.
I remember Wood regularly coming onto RTE sports on the monday after the game, in utter despair trying to explain what happened.
Can't remember if we have a Irish Rugby thread, but this is the closest I could find.
The squad for the Autumn internationals has been announced.
Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster/62)
Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster/49)
Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster/3)
Tom Court (Malone/Ulster/29)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster/69)
Keith Earls (Thomond/Munster/32)
Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster/35)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster/33)
Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster/50)
Iain Henderson (Queens University/Ulster)*
Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster/2)
David Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster)*
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)*
John Muldoon (Galwegians/Connacht/3)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster/12)
Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/Connacht/4)
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster/14)
Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster/5)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster/88)
Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster/85)
Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster/120) Captain
Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster/124
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster/7)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster/45)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster/22)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster/21)
Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster/32)
Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)*
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster/48)
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster/5)
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster/1)
Seriously, what is the point in bringing Donnacha O'Callaghan in there? Surely there's enough up and coming Locks that can be thrown in with Paulie. Actually I'd like to see Paulie given a rest as well. He was savage against Edinburgh last week, but he is just moving so stiffly, and looks as if he is in pain just walking or jogging around.
Only 2 out-halfs and one of those an injured O'Gara who is now 35 and no longer guaranteed his spot with Munster. Paddy Jackson should be in that squad.
The selection of O'Callaghan and D'Arcy defies belief.
Only 2 hookers and one of them isn't even Irish. No specialist full back either. Only one specialist open-side. Only 1 THP and 3 LHP, ffs.
The sooner Kidney goes the better.
Injure Mike Ross early and win the game easily.