Will the paying of grants affect your attendance at Inter-County games

[DMarsden]

Ok radio, its not fair us all laughing at you at the same time. we'll give you a chance to reason your fantasy land. answer me this...

how will a scenario develop where counties must find extra revenue streams in order to meet the requirements of player salaries?

[RadioGAAGAA]

how will a scenario develop where counties must find extra revenue streams in order to meet the requirements of player salaries?

Its pretty obvious to anyone that thinks about it that the money for the players will come from central.

Obviously that means central will not be able to divvy out the same amount of money to the provinces then the counties, which will (not) feed right down to the clubs.



You may or may not be aware that pretty much all the county boards are only kept viable through the funding handed down from above at present. Limit or remove that funding, and the counties will have to scale back their activities.

[darbyo]

Ha - you stupidly assume that the 2K will stay at 2K.



I am using circumstantial evidence of both local rugby and local soccer - you (and the other pro grants supporters) are using hot air to back your argument.



Repeating ad nauseum that "the GAA are different", and "it won't happen to us" is not an argument based on anything but your own pre-conceived notions.

Ok RGAAGAA since we are all naive, stupid and ignorant can you explain to us in layman's terms why the government will increase the grant every 2-3 years or if they won't how the GAA can be forced into taking over this responsiblity.
                 Local soccer? the ills of soccer in this country are because it's professional at the top level? Are you nuts?
                 Everybody on this site agrees that professionalism as is practiced in the premiership, the heineken cup, in Aussie rules or any other fully pro sport would have serious consequences for the GAA but we are nowhere near that, and you considering the rest of us as naive won't change that.

Its pretty obvious to anyone that thinks about it that the money for the players will come from central.

Why would the GAA pay every IC hurler and footballer in the country, nobody wants them to and they could only do so after the membeership voted to allow them to and this won't happen.

[heineken_on_tap]

how will a scenario develop where counties must find extra revenue streams in order to meet the requirements of player salaries?

Its pretty obvious to anyone that thinks about it that the money for the players will come from central.

Well the better put the for sale sign up in Croker and every other asset they own - becase after a few years of paying players salaries in EVERY county in Football and hurling there isnt going to be much left ...................... It aint going to happen

Unless you mean 'Centra' - I suppose the local shop in each county could sponser the county team

[RadioGAAGAA]

Ok RGAAGAA since we are all naive, stupid and ignorant can you explain to us in layman's terms why the government will increase the grant every 2-3 years or if they won't how the GAA can be forced into taking over this responsiblity.

Do you need spoonfed everything? 

They will get increases through the same way as they got the grants. "Don't pay us more, we don't play."


The GAA are already going to pay these grants through unreceived govt finance, only you lot are ignoring it or are too stupid to realise it.

                  Local soccer? the ills of soccer in this country are because it's professional at the top level? Are you nuts?

Don't know where your going with this.

There is much wrong with local soccer, money sinks are alot of the problem, inept management by the FAI and IFA another... but there are many issues there.

                  Everybody on this site agrees that professionalism as is practiced in the premiership, the heineken cup, in Aussie rules or any other fully pro sport would have serious consequences for the GAA but we are nowhere near that, and you considering the rest of us as naive won't change that.

Yet you (and the grant supporters) think that it won't incrementally move that way - but the GAA would die long before it reached a level of the english premiership.

Why would the GAA pay every IC hurler and footballer in the country, nobody wants them to and they could only do so after the membeership voted to allow them to and this won't happen.

This is breathtakingly simple, I really cannot see how you cannot grasp it.

Instead of giving the GAA (central council) the annual aid/grant/tax breaks money, the government will give it to the players. That money would have went to central, which would have went to the provinces, then onto the counties, and finally down to the clubs.


I really don't know if I can make it much more straightforward and simpler than that.

[his holiness nb]

most club members don't give a fiddlers and don't begrudge their county lads the grant.

This grants row is done to death.
BUT I cannot let statements like the above be trotted out like fact.

Most club members dont give a fiddlers about the grant??

Says who??? Just because Dessie pulled that "fact" out of his arse doesnt make it true.
Not one member of my club has been asked his opinion, nice of you to tell us what it is 

[bennydorano]

Eh, the results of this poll  knob.

I thought the poll said "Will the paying of grants affect your attendance at Inter-County games" not "Do you intend to go to county football next year". But you probably can't see the difference between the two statements.

Clutching at straws there a bit seanie semantics all you have to offer to the argument?

[DMarsden]

The GAA are already going to pay these grants through unreceived govt finance, only you lot are ignoring it or are too stupid to realise it.

no they are not.

This is just a stupid line to be goin down. not a bit of wonder noone else is jumping in to help you row that boat.

Holiness - what's dessie got to do with it? i'm basing my comment on the fact that our club agm and those of our 2 neighbouring clubs, the issue wasn't even mentioned and the only comments i ever hear from day to day, and they're rare, are ones of total bafflement at the "fuss in tyrone" about this.

If you weren't such a lazy sod you could easily have found out that i have been a poster hear long before the grants issue and saved you making yourself look like an ass again.

[his holiness nb]

[Holiness - what's dessie got to do with it?

He said the majority are pro grant based on nothing.

i'm basing my comment on the fact that our club agm and those of our 2 neighbouring clubs, the issue wasn't even mentioned and the only comments i ever hear from day to day, and they're rare, are ones of total bafflement at the "fuss in tyrone" about this.

In fairness its only really hit the headlines in the past week. Rather than say people dont care about it because they didnt say the care, why not base it on facts.
The only way to do this is a natiowide poll of members to get their opinions, otherwise we should all refrain from claiming to know what people think.

If you weren't such a lazy sod you could easily have found out that i have been a poster hear long before the grants issue and saved you making yourself look like an ass again.

Lazy sod?? Well actually if you werent such a lazy sod you would realise I DID check this and realised I was in fact wrong, and edited my post BEFORE you posted this!

Once again though this "lazy sod" and "making yourself look like an ass again" sort of childishness is doing nothing for your argument, this is why I have refrained from debating with you except to point out when you come out with facts you cant possibly back up.

You said most club members dont give a fiddlers without knowing this for fact, I merely questioned this.

Most club members I have discussed this with are opposed to the grant, yet I wouldnt be so arrogant to claim this is the case with the majority of members nationwide as neither I nor you have these figures.

[DMarsden]

Seem its only the case at club level in tyrone editor

[RadioGAAGAA]

no they are not.

This is just a stupid line to be goin down. not a bit of wonder noone else is jumping in to help you row that boat.

I guess you came up the blackwater in a bubble then.


Time will prove me right.

[darbyo]

Ok Tram this is how you proposed that professionalism could come into the GAA

I would say the main fear is that a foothold to professionalism has already been obtained regardless of the source of funds. I asked the €25,000 question because I would say quite a few players could live solely each year on such a payment without much extravagance, maybe not in some places but certainly in plenty of others, while the rest would in effect be semi-pro in all but name, working on a day job on something else and not necessarily full time. From reading between the lines, am I right in saying that you would still regard players receiving this sum of money (€25,000 p.a.) as amateur, and not requiring an amendment to Rule 11? If so, it's one that for me is hard to fathom because as I've already said many players could live on such a sum alone. You then effectively get a state subsidised pro-sports platform which still defines itself as amateur. And pro-sports don't have to be wallowing in megabucks like the English Premier soccer league, many pro sports bodies see its competitors play on small wages.

Now while the above situation is unlikely, another one is where claims of hypocrisy is laid and is more plausible. A wealthy businessman, or a number of them bunched together, may decide to offer say a panel of 20-24 players  €15,000 each plus bonuses & perks e.g. mortgage paid each month, on progression in the championship on the condition of (a) giving up all other full-time work and (b) not playing football for their club or at the very least the bare minimum they have to e.g. championship games only. This would be in addition of doing promotional work for said business' e.g. in adverts. In other words, live the life of a full time pro athlete. Now this money doesn't directly involve the GAA or even its county boards, but is paid direct to the players involved. This to me in terms of ethos lies in a similar fashion with the grants deal struck, only amplified a lot more and doesn't involve the government but private business concerns. Does the rule of amateurism still realistically count? To me its as good as dissolved without having to touch the Official Guide. I'm sure the counter-claim will be that managers are already getting this and have been for years. I've already explained myself on this and I don't intend repeating it, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Now I think we agree that the Govt. are not going to pay GAA players anything like €25000, so we'll move onto the next possibility. A consortium of business people coming together is a possibility, but that doesn't make the GAA a professional sport. As it stands now or at any time in the past a group of individuals could have come together to fund a full-time county panel, but it's never happened, and I can't see it being anymore likely because of the grant.
                               I said your suggestion was unrealistic and I stand by that, first off any player would need a living wage which is at least €25,000, for guys with families even that sum may not be enough. But at 25K by 25 players that's over 600K, not small money for any consortium to pay especially when the panel will play for free anyway. Or what about players who are doctors, physios, farmers, business owners etc. are they going to take career breaks for €25000 (approx.) per year. I don't see too many players accepting that they can't play for their clubs take career breaks based on the loose arrangement of a group of businessmen paying them basic money for an in determined amount of time.
                Also tram neither of your two suggestions are based on the GAA paying players out of their own funds or players all across the country becoming full time professionals. We can argue all night about whether a particular group of businessmen would pay players in a particular county but I think you'd accept that 32 counties wouldn't secure such largesse from local businessmen. Or any county would get it on a consistent basis.

[darbyo]

They will get increases through the same way as they got the grants. "Don't pay us more, we don't play."

So you think that anytime the GPA want something they can just stamp their feet and the GAA will fold. It is your position that professionalism will come about by the GPA threathening to strike. And you called me niave.

[the destroyer]

i remember a time there at th moscow olimpics, pl were happy with the going's on then, n they cudnt be pulled away from the stadium for love nor money. i tell ye boys, nada bather til them

[darbyo]

I agree tram but I don't think it is either likely or at least anymore so because of the grants. Like I say not only would you need a group of businessmen willing and able to fund it but all the players would need to be on board and what is a good deal for one lad could be a bad one for another.  Some posters keep saying this (the grant) is the thin edge of the wedge but a proper professional structure in the GAA needs the support of the vast majority of the membership and that isn't going to happen in the foreseeable future.
                   You can certainly question whether IC players deserve the grant as opposed to club players or other athletes. And I'd agree that the GPA have come across poorly during this debate but the principle of amateurism or the thin edge of the wedge are not sustainable arguments against this grant.