China Coronavirus

[lenny]

By the way, right now I'd favour a complete, absolute bastard, shutdown for 1 month, starting immediately.

But this, I believe, can only work if all European governments do it together. That way no none of our main trading partners can benefit economically from staying open. If we all close together and open together, the impact of a recession could not be as severe. The money, the contracts, are largely paused for a month, rather than rerouted.

And then to go way back to the start of this thread: I now agree with RadioGAAGAA (if you can't change your mind when more facts are available, there is something wrong with you btw). Close all airports for domestic travel for as long as it takes. Given the choice of another year of the shite we are going through now, or a year of no travelling, it's an easy choice.

New Zealand tried that though and thought they had eradicated Covid in their territory. Only for it to come back.

And no matter how strictly you shut down, hospitals, nursing homes, ambulances, agriculture, perishable food processing and a hundred other things have to keep going, no matter what.  Which rather defeats the point.

It only came back into NZ on food packaging. They have it back under control, everywhere is completely open again apart from auckland which is due to completely reopen very soon. Ireland could've gone for the same. A few industries would've been decimated but overall the economy would've been able to keep going. Schools, sports events etc all could've gone ahead without restrictions.

[armaghniac]

Testing improvements could be the way forward
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/29/rapid-low-cost-covid-test-world

if you had a cheap fast and decently reliable test then you could potentially do a Wuhan and test everyone two or three times in a week or two and more or less get everyone in one go.

[Milltown Row2]

They are patrolling the Hals and if people are not adhering to the rules they'll let the students know of what's expected and if they still don't adhere to that then warnings will be given. I guess the approach of isolating a block rather than the whole place is a better option, the kids are being asked where they are going when they leave the grounds lol! 

On a floor you've 11 rooms, and kitchen sitting area, only 6 are allowed in at one time, and obviously no one is allowed into the dorms..

As Tyrdub has said some kids are taking the piss, imagine 18 year old's away from the house going a bit mad! My problem is why open the Halls and then have online lessons (which are pre recorded, not live) is it purely money?

I'd be happy to save myself a few quid and my daughter stay at home and do the lessons at home

You live in Belfast and your kid is staying in halls at QUB?

I have lived Jordanstown (15 minutes up the road  ) for 20 odd years now, and she wants the 'student experience' whatever that is at the moment, I wasnt a student myself but certainly lived the student life back in the day!

Jesus didnt know that would be the done thing. Seems like more money than sense to me . Hi but at least they are out of the house.

Its a pity there aren't any universities in Jordanstown or you'd save a fortune.

I made an offer of £250 a month to stay at home ... or free accommodation partying as a fresher in Belfast come home weekend get fed watered and washing done.., now if I was given that opportunity I know which one I'd take.

At this rate though I doubt she'll stay , as none of the above is happening!

[five points]

By the way, right now I'd favour a complete, absolute bastard, shutdown for 1 month, starting immediately.

But this, I believe, can only work if all European governments do it together. That way no none of our main trading partners can benefit economically from staying open. If we all close together and open together, the impact of a recession could not be as severe. The money, the contracts, are largely paused for a month, rather than rerouted.

And then to go way back to the start of this thread: I now agree with RadioGAAGAA (if you can't change your mind when more facts are available, there is something wrong with you btw). Close all airports for domestic travel for as long as it takes. Given the choice of another year of the shite we are going through now, or a year of no travelling, it's an easy choice.

New Zealand tried that though and thought they had eradicated Covid in their territory. Only for it to come back.

And no matter how strictly you shut down, hospitals, nursing homes, ambulances, agriculture, perishable food processing and a hundred other things have to keep going, no matter what.  Which rather defeats the point.

It only came back into NZ on food packaging. They have it back under control, everywhere is completely open again apart from auckland which is due to completely reopen very soon. Ireland could've gone for the same. A few industries would've been decimated but overall the economy would've been able to keep going. Schools, sports events etc all could've gone ahead without restrictions.

It did come back though. And on that basis, we'd have to assume it'd come back here too, sooner or later. Meaning all the pain in the meantime would be pointless.

[sid waddell]

By the way, right now I'd favour a complete, absolute bastard, shutdown for 1 month, starting immediately.

But this, I believe, can only work if all European governments do it together. That way no none of our main trading partners can benefit economically from staying open. If we all close together and open together, the impact of a recession could not be as severe. The money, the contracts, are largely paused for a month, rather than rerouted.

And then to go way back to the start of this thread: I now agree with RadioGAAGAA (if you can't change your mind when more facts are available, there is something wrong with you btw). Close all airports for domestic travel for as long as it takes. Given the choice of another year of the shite we are going through now, or a year of no travelling, it's an easy choice.

New Zealand tried that though and thought they had eradicated Covid in their territory. Only for it to come back.

And no matter how strictly you shut down, hospitals, nursing homes, ambulances, agriculture, perishable food processing and a hundred other things have to keep going, no matter what.  Which rather defeats the point.

New Zealand has had 5 deaths per million people

The USA has 634 deaths per million people

Who's doing a better job of dealing with this?

[sid waddell]

The self pity mob are piling it on rich and thick this afternoon

Must be great to be a fake victim all the time

Saves having to debate 

Rossfan's posts aren't debating. He waits until someone else does the hard work like Hound above, and the rows in with a "witty" one liner belittling other posters rather than entering into the debate.

It's not a black or white issue. Levels of restrictions required are absolutely an area for discussion. I'd side on the viewpoint of being over cautious to prevent a soar in cases again, 100 % agree that masks should be worn etc. But I can also understand other factors being discussed such as economic impacts, impact on waiting lists, mental health etc. I don't think a blanket shut down of these discussions and accusing anyone who enters into these debates as being deniers helps in any way.

Edit** Or you have the above post. No one ever said that no one gets long term effects from covid. It's a typical straw man argument.

Who exactly has discounted the effects of economic downturns, waiting lists or mental health?

Nobody as far as I know

Nobody wants to be in this situation

But you cannot wish a pandemic away

There are a lot of internet experts out there

They rarely if ever actually propose anything, they never actually deal with what the real impacts of progressive liberalisation of restrictions would be

We already have plenty of liberalisation of restrictions in this country

Level 3 is far from where we were in April

[RadioGAAGAA]

It did come back though. And on that basis, we'd have to assume it'd come back here too, sooner or later. Meaning all the pain in the meantime would be pointless.

A largely functioning internal economy would be pointless? No restrictions for social events within the country? Or hospitality within the country?

Listen to yourself ffs.


When it does reemerge, you lock down again till its gone. With international travel choked off, it cannot reemerge too frequently.

[supersarsfields]

The self pity mob are piling it on rich and thick this afternoon

Must be great to be a fake victim all the time

Saves having to debate 

Rossfan's posts aren't debating. He waits until someone else does the hard work like Hound above, and the rows in with a "witty" one liner belittling other posters rather than entering into the debate.

It's not a black or white issue. Levels of restrictions required are absolutely an area for discussion. I'd side on the viewpoint of being over cautious to prevent a soar in cases again, 100 % agree that masks should be worn etc. But I can also understand other factors being discussed such as economic impacts, impact on waiting lists, mental health etc. I don't think a blanket shut down of these discussions and accusing anyone who enters into these debates as being deniers helps in any way.

Edit** Or you have the above post. No one ever said that no one gets long term effects from covid. It's a typical straw man argument.

Who exactly has discounted the effects of economic downturns, waiting lists or mental health?

Nobody as far as I know

Nobody wants to be in this situation

But you cannot wish a pandemic away

There are a lot of internet experts out there

They rarely if ever actually propose anything, they never actually deal with what the real impacts of progressive liberalisation of restrictions would be

We already have plenty of liberalisation of restrictions in this country

Level 3 is far from where we were in April

I've explained my point already. It's not really that big a deal. I find Rossfan's posts exaggerating other posters views to try and make it sound like they are in denial of the pandemic disingenuous.

You are absolutely right in the amount of internet experts out there.   

[highorlow]

https://mobile.twitter.com/RTE_PrimeTime/status/1311045248521510912

Good debate on Prime Time this evening.

[sid waddell]

The self pity mob are piling it on rich and thick this afternoon

Must be great to be a fake victim all the time

Saves having to debate 

Rossfan's posts aren't debating. He waits until someone else does the hard work like Hound above, and the rows in with a "witty" one liner belittling other posters rather than entering into the debate.

It's not a black or white issue. Levels of restrictions required are absolutely an area for discussion. I'd side on the viewpoint of being over cautious to prevent a soar in cases again, 100 % agree that masks should be worn etc. But I can also understand other factors being discussed such as economic impacts, impact on waiting lists, mental health etc. I don't think a blanket shut down of these discussions and accusing anyone who enters into these debates as being deniers helps in any way.

Edit** Or you have the above post. No one ever said that no one gets long term effects from covid. It's a typical straw man argument.

Who exactly has discounted the effects of economic downturns, waiting lists or mental health?

Nobody as far as I know

Nobody wants to be in this situation

But you cannot wish a pandemic away

There are a lot of internet experts out there

They rarely if ever actually propose anything, they never actually deal with what the real impacts of progressive liberalisation of restrictions would be

We already have plenty of liberalisation of restrictions in this country

Level 3 is far from where we were in April

I've explained my point already. It's not really that big a deal. I find Rossfan's posts exaggerating other posters views to try and make it sound like they are in denial of the pandemic disingenuous.

You are absolutely right in the amount of internet experts out there.

Unfortunately I think some posters are in denial and have been since the start of it, not aiming that at you

Certainly I think there's an outsize representation of denialist views in the media at large, both traditional media and on the internet

There is plenty of scope to criticise decision makers in this country, unfortunately from what I can see most of it seems to be being done by head the balls, perhaps that's a function of media deliberately platforming some extremist voices for reaction rather than more constructive criticism which would pose more genuinely awkward questions, perhaps that's a function of spending too much time on social media, perhaps not

I'm all for people making constructive criticism and posing genuinely relevant and sensible questions for decision makers

[trileacman]

Very good interview with Dr. Feeley on Primetime. Had expected a old dithering wind-bag but he really wiped the floor with McConkey.

[sid waddell]

Very good interview with Dr. Feeley on Primetime. Had expected a old dithering wind-bag but he really wiped the floor with McConkey.

I didn't see it

What did Dr. Feeley suggest that the government do

What's his way forward

[trileacman]

I'm all for people making constructive criticism and posing genuinely relevant and sensible questions for decision makers

I have a few of those.

1. What is the endgame to current policy? Long term are we attempting to eradicate Covid as was suggested by Dr Sam McConkey tonight. How long will that take? Are we trying to "flatten the curve" and slowly let the infection pass through the population until it is endemic? That was once the government position, is it still so?

2. What proportion of people develop long lasting clinical illnesses with Covid? In medical terms what are those conditions? Sinead Sheerin describes very wide ranging and nondescript symptoms. "Head fog" and "breathlessness". Where is the medical evidence showing tissue scarring/damage and what is it's rate of occurrence.

[highorlow]

https://mobile.twitter.com/RTE_PrimeTime/status/1311045248521510912

Ya I posted the above in relation to the prime time debate earlier. Here is the link again in case it gets lost.

Feeley's message is to protect the old and vulnerable and that it is possible with the measures we have in place already and to give a bit more liberation so people can live their lives.

On the other hand McConkey wants to live in Greenland and play with elf's and teletubbies.

[sid waddell]

I'm all for people making constructive criticism and posing genuinely relevant and sensible questions for decision makers

I have a few of those.

1. What is the endgame to current policy? Long term are we attempting to eradicate Covid as was suggested by Dr Sam McConkey tonight. How long will that take? Are we trying to "flatten the curve" and slowly let the infection pass through the population until it is endemic? That was once the government position, is it still so?

2. What proportion of people develop long lasting clinical illnesses with Covid? In medical terms what are those conditions? Sinead Sheerin describes very wide ranging and nondescript symptoms. "Head fog" and "breathlessness". Where is the medical evidence showing tissue scarring/damage and what is it's rate of occurrence.

McConkey clearly favours a zero Covid strategy as do some other high profile people in the field

Zero Covid means that you pretty much fully open up the economy after measures to eliminate community transmission

In New Zealand that meant football stadiums could be full

It seems self evident that the policy that is currently being pursued is to buy time until a vaccine, and in the meantime open things up as much as is possible while suppressing the virus as much as possible, to find a midpoint, which is always subject to change

In Sweden I believe it has been reported that up to 15% of cases have got long Covid

In plain English it seems to mean that you feel absolutely fecked for weeks or months afterwards, I guess there would be considerable variation in terms of exactly how that manifests itself and for how long

But it seems to be a real thing, I don't think you can just write it off