Is the League of Ireland a victim of bad marketing?

[Eamonnca1]

Stuart Byrne column: I'm delighted Keely's '42,000 morons' comment has sparked debate

Stuey believes giving LOI players a profile and moving away from summer football are two moves which could attract fans.

I'M GLAD TO see that last night's discussion on Soccer Republic about the recent friendly between Shamrock Rovers and a Liverpool XI has sparked some debate, especially on Twitter.

Dermot Keely said "42,000 morons" attended the game but I think the point he was trying to make was that a hell of a lot of people were effectively going to watch a reserve team. It sounded like he was finding it hard to understand that.

There's a big difference between paying to see Liverpool's first team and a second string of youngsters and fringe players. But because it was in the Aviva Stadium and the Liverpool 'brand' was attached to it, there was a novelty about the match and the people came out in their droves.

It must be frustrating from Dermot's point of view — being born and bred in the League of Ireland. Even for myself, seeing that many people go out to watch a reserve team when we can't get them to their local team is disappointing.

I would hope that last night's programme can encourage more debate because we just don't talk about it anymore. There is no attempt to get into the minds of these people or plan to find out why more don't support our league.

Getting a reaction is great and I want fans to say what they feel so we can try and understand and move on from there.

There simply hasn't been a big enough effort made to encourage new fans in my opinion. One of the last measures of note I can remember was a television ad from four or five years ago which was funded by the FAI and featured an old man walking around an empty Dalymount Park reminiscing about the past.

It looked horrendous and might as well have been saying: "If you're over 70, come watch the League of Ireland". It didn't appeal to young fans, it didn't appeal to families, and there was no attempt to make a connection.

We need to give profiles to players in the SSE Airtricity League. I would love to see more interviews like the one with Chris Forrester on Soccer Republic last night. That creates a link between the supporter and the player.

You look at rugby and the GAA and how they profile their best players — the likes of Bernard Brogan, Colm Cooper, Brian O'Driscoll, Jamie Heaslip.

In Irish football, the younger generation have no interest in the players because all they see is the likes of Steven Gerrard on advertisements. We need to start getting players on billboards, television ads... whatever.

You heard one of the fans talking last night about how he went to a League of Ireland game ten years ago and recalling how it was lashing rain. Is this guy for real? He went along and all he could think about was the weather. Does it not lash rain over in Anfield, no?
People perceive the League of Ireland to be something that it's not and we've got to change that as well as a hundred other things. At the moment, we are doing nothing and the longer it goes on the more they're going to think that way.

We need to show them players like Chris Forrester and say: "Have a look at this goal, look what this guy can do".

You could debate it all day but there certainly are areas where we can improve. As a player who isn't long out of the game, helping LOI players to become role models for kids could be a start.

I've mentioned it before but summer soccer isn't doing us any favours either. We could be talking about this in 10 years and nothing may have changed because things take time, especially when you consider the mess Irish football finds itself in at the moment.

If there are changes you can make immediately or within a year, I would point to going back to playing during the old season.

We think about football between September and May in this country. When it comes to the summer months, it's the GAA, holidays, BBQs, going to the pub on a Friday. They don't associate the time of the year with going to a football match.

I felt as a player that when we changed to a summer season, the crowds would not be there in May, June and July. It's a cultural thing. We don't live a country where the weather is always nice so when it is, we tend to do other things.

For me, reverting back to the old season is a start and I think we need to go from there.

What's the story with Irish soccer then? Is the FAI only focused on the international team and doesn't pay much heed to the domestic league? 

If the marketing is as bad as this article says it is, why is it so bad?  Is the marketing function being micromanaged by an organization that doesn't do marketing very well or doesn't understand why it's important?  If they hired a marketing agency or got their corporate sponsors to take care of it would they get better results?

Would a merging of the IFA and FAI* lead to better competition?

*I know, I know, "unlikely in the foreseeable future" and all, but humour me for the purposes of this discussion.

[rodney trotter]

Not like its a recent phenomen. They made some good points on the show last night nonetheless. Summer soccer was brought into improve the standard in the league and help teams to progress in Europe, but not much impact in attendance figures. Very hard for them to compete with Gaa Championship season in Full swing among other things. The World Cup this year too

[Eamonnca1]

I would have thought the World Cup would increase interest in soccer and get more people to games.

[The Subbie]

The LOI is almost masonic in its cronyism, Dublin centric with a f**k the culchies attitude from the top down. The League of Ireland is a victim of inept management and insiders looking after their own, almost a carbon copy of how the country is run!

I'll declare an interest here, before setting sail for Australia's fair shores i would have attended a lot of Monaghan Utd's matches and whilst part of me concurs with Keely and the 42,000 idiots comment another part of me says fair fucks to them.

Shamrock Rovers made more money from that single match the other night than they would have from multiple league and cup winning cheques.

The financial arrangements with clubs and the FAI are farcical and it directly contributed to Monaghan Utds downfall.

It costs more to take part in the league ( either first or premier) than you will get from taking part and winning it, gate receipts are not shared by home and away club like they used to be.

Before I get carried away I'll let you in on two of the particularly nasty episodes provided by the FAI/LOI in the months/weeks prior to Monaghan Utd going wallop.

Monaghan Utd would have played a lot of pre season matches against northern teams, usually northern referees would have ref'ed these games and it soon became apparent that the northern refs were a lot handier to pay than their southern counterparts.
Southern refs got, as the celtic tiger roared and roared, better and better compensated as the years went on, to the point that a 4 man team of officials would have to get 550 - 600 yo yo's plus petrol money and a feed for a night of shite refereeing.
By comparison the northern refs were happy to come to Monaghan for 200 Stg, petrol money and a feed, the northern refs were UEFA registered and Monaghan Utd thought " lets save a few bob here".

They were told in no uncertain terms that it would not now or ever be a runner and that the refs assoc South of the border will be speaking to you about this, first five or six games of the 2010 league when Mon Utd were in the premier they couldn't buy a decision, indeed after one particularly bad decision Roddy collins was told at half time by a ref " maybe if you were allowed a northern ref you might have got a better decision"

When Monaghan Utd were badly on the ropes about 10 games in that 2010 premier league season with no main sponsor, they finally got a sponsor to agree to come in with some $$$$, enough to keep the ship sailing and see out the season and into the next one.

The sponsor would be well known, I'm not willing to mention names.

Anyway 2 days after doing the deal  the sponsor pulls out having got the phone call from Adamstowns from delaney or one of his minions telling the guy that it would be better to stay away from Monaghan Utd.

This might come across as bitter and maybe it is but the entire LOI/FAI charade is rotten to the core, It will be interesting to see what clubs can stay solvent for the next few years,Im hearing bad rumours about a few.

The management or marketing of the LOI is there to do one thing and one thing only, keep the big 4 Dublin clubs in clover and bring along a few house trained Cork, Louth and Galway teams.

[Ball Hopper]

I see the RTE report on the Dundalk/Drogheda game on Monday night includes an attendance figure of 2383.  How would that number rank with other LOI games?

[ardtole]

Im not sure what the prize money situation is at present, but I know two years ago the league champions secured €100,000 for winning the league while Delaney was pocketing €400,000 a year salary.

[OakleafCounty]

I see the RTE report on the Dundalk/Drogheda game on Monday night includes an attendance figure of 2383.  How would that number rank with other LOI games?

For a normal game today that would be a fairly high attendance. Though it's a derby so there would have been plenty of away fans.

[deiseach]

The short answer is no, marketing isn't going to revive the League of Ireland. I say 'revive' because once upon a time there were Biblical crowds at domestic soccer. My uncle from Cork, who obsesses about Liverpool, once told me how he used travel to see Waterford play in Kilcohan Park in the 60's. It didn't matter who they were playing, he wanted to get a fix of live sport and that was the only way of doing so at the time (he has no interest in Gaelic games). I think his experience says a lot about the way we consume sport. I remember reading an article in the Irish Times a number of years back about how a five-figure crowd attended an edition of the Morton Mile in Santry in the 60's. I was talking about this to another uncle and he said "I was there". He had travelled all the way to north county Dublin from Waterford because he wanted to see Herb Elliott. Now you can see the Herb Elliotts of this world on television all the time. You can even get a cheap flight to Brussels for a Diamond League meet if you are so inclined. You often see League of Ireland diehards bemoaning a nation of event junkies, and while such complaints usually involve blaming the GAA for all their woes it's easy to see their point.

[Billys Boots]

I think GAA inter-county teams would have trouble attracting crowds if they played 30-35 odd games per annum - I don't think national league attendances are anything to write home about (and there's only 8 matches).  I think deiseach is right - TV is why the crowds have fallen. 

[AZOffaly]

Plus it is fairly shite in fairness. I used to go to a lot of Limerick FC/Limerick City/Limerick 37 games, and the facilities are muck, the standard is poor and the atmosphere is like a Junior football club game.

However, I also went to games in Tolka Park and Dalymount, and the atmosphere was much better, there was decent facilities but the standard was still pretty poor. Also the Shamrock Rovers/Bohs game at Dalymount was the only game I've ever had to get away from quickly as a row broke out behind the ground between the Rovers Ultras and some crew of Bohs.

It just feels small time, incestuous and basically a league for Dublin players and soccer heads from Dublin.

[Geoff Tipps]

Plus it is fairly shite in fairness. I used to go to a lot of Limerick FC/Limerick City/Limerick 37 games, and the facilities are muck, the standard is poor and the atmosphere is like a Junior football club game.

However, I also went to games in Tolka Park and Dalymount, and the atmosphere was much better, there was decent facilities but the standard was still pretty poor. Also the Shamrock Rovers/Bohs game at Dalymount was the only game I've ever had to get away from quickly as a row broke out behind the ground between the Rovers Ultras and some crew of Bohs.

It just feels small time, incestuous and basically a league for Dublin players and soccer heads from Dublin.

That's the main problem. It's a poor product. All the marketing in the world isn't going to change that.

[Bord na Mona man]

It hardly helped that traditionally the LOI and the FAI were separate bodies and wouldn't have always seen eye to eye.

A huge problem is the user experience. Most of the stadiums I'm familiar with are fairly decrepit. It wouldn't be a family day out with the crowds are male dominated and perhaps a little bit industrial with the banter. I'd say there are a section of casual soccer people who are turned off by the bitterness of some of the hardcore LOI fans - the anti-Premier League stuff.

Strip away all the trappings, the actual spectacle on the field is not massively different. Obviously there is a lesser standard of player, but you're getting roughly the same dose of goals, chances, misses. If West Ham played Crystal Palace in an empty field and then Drogheda played Dundalk, would the London derby be miles more enjoyable?
There'll be plenty of woeful games in the World Cup in a month's time involving the best players in the world.

But the problem is the public know they're not watching something meaningful when they go to LOI games. It's a periphery league in a periphery country where the periphery players produced by the country participate in.

[Hardy]

The short answer is no, marketing isn't going to revive the League of Ireland. I say 'revive' because once upon a time there were Biblical crowds at domestic soccer. My uncle from Cork, who obsesses about Liverpool, once told me how he used travel to see Waterford play in Kilcohan Park in the 60's. It didn't matter who they were playing, he wanted to get a fix of live sport and that was the only way of doing so at the time (he has no interest in Gaelic games). I think his experience says a lot about the way we consume sport. I remember reading an article in the Irish Times a number of years back about how a five-figure crowd attended an edition of the Morton Mile in Santry in the 60's. I was talking about this to another uncle and he said "I was there". He had travelled all the way to north county Dublin from Waterford because he wanted to see Herb Elliott. Now you can see the Herb Elliotts of this world on television all the time. You can even get a cheap flight to Brussels for a Diamond League meet if you are so inclined. You often see League of Ireland diehards bemoaning a nation of event junkies, and while such complaints usually involve blaming the GAA for all their woes it's easy to see their point.

That explains everything except why Irish soccer fans, when they do attend games, choose to do so in England and Scotland, at great expense.

[AZOffaly]

It hardly helped that traditionally the LOI and the FAI were separate bodies and wouldn't have always seen eye to eye.

A huge problem is the user experience. Most of the stadiums I'm familiar with are fairly decrepit. It wouldn't be a family day out with the crowds are male dominated and perhaps a little bit industrial with the banter. I'd say there are a section of casual soccer people who are turned off by the bitterness of some of the hardcore LOI fans - the anti-Premier League stuff.

Strip away all the trappings, the actual spectacle on the field is not massively different. Obviously there is a lesser standard of player, but you're getting roughly the same dose of goals, chances, misses. If West Ham played Crystal Palace in an empty field and then Drogheda played Dundalk, would the London derby be miles more enjoyable?
There'll be plenty of woeful games in the World Cup in a month's time involving the best players in the world.

But the problem is the public know they're not watching something meaningful when they go to LOI games. It's a periphery league in a periphery country where the periphery players produced by the country participate in.

First bit in bold, yes I think it would be better. West Ham and Crystal Palace are two teams stacked with internationals and foreign players. (and Andy Carroll). Drogheda and Dundalk are not. There are some good players in the League of Ireland, but not enough of them. The teams also try to play football a bit, in the main, but they are just not very good at it. I think if your question was Drogheda v Dundalk versus Port Vale v MK Dons, the answer might be a lot closer.

Second bit I agree with to a certain extent. The feeling of the LOI is that it is either a league for 'rejects' who couldn't make it in England or Scotland, or young lads who are trying to get there. It's like a feeder league for the big brother over the pond, and is regarded as such.

I

[Hardy]

It hardly helped that traditionally the LOI and the FAI were separate bodies and wouldn't have always seen eye to eye.

A huge problem is the user experience. Most of the stadiums I'm familiar with are fairly decrepit. It wouldn't be a family day out with the crowds are male dominated and perhaps a little bit industrial with the banter. I'd say there are a section of casual soccer people who are turned off by the bitterness of some of the hardcore LOI fans - the anti-Premier League stuff.

Strip away all the trappings, the actual spectacle on the field is not massively different. Obviously there is a lesser standard of player, but you're getting roughly the same dose of goals, chances, misses. If West Ham played Crystal Palace in an empty field and then Drogheda played Dundalk, would the London derby be miles more enjoyable?
There'll be plenty of woeful games in the World Cup in a month's time involving the best players in the world.

But the problem is the public know they're not watching something meaningful when they go to LOI games. It's a periphery league in a periphery country where the periphery players produced by the country participate in.

First bit in bold, yes I think it would be better. West Ham and Crystal Palace are two teams stacked with internationals and foreign players. (and Andy Carroll). Drogheda and Dundalk are not. There are some good players in the League of Ireland, but not enough of them. The teams also try to play football a bit, in the main, but they are just not very good at it. I think if your question was Drogheda v Dundalk versus Port Vale v MK Dons, the answer might be a lot closer.

Second bit I agree with to a certain extent. The feeling of the LOI is that it is either a league for 'rejects' who couldn't make it in England or Scotland, or young lads who are trying to get there. It's like a feeder league for the big brother over the pond, and is regarded as such.

I

Replace "LOI" with "All-Ireland Championship" and "England and Scotland" with "The GAA Premiership" and you have a picture of football when we go professional.