Cillian O'Connor wins Golden Boot Race

Started by Angus, September 24, 2015, 08:47:43 PM

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JoG2

Quote from: Angelo on June 24, 2020, 05:09:16 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 24, 2020, 05:04:12 PM
Quote from: Angelo on June 24, 2020, 04:44:39 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 24, 2020, 02:55:09 PM
Quote from: Gael85 on June 24, 2020, 01:57:45 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on June 24, 2020, 12:07:36 AM
Having considerably more time than sense lately. I decided to check out Cillian's scoring returns, some of them at any rate.
I decided to concentrate on his championship games from 2011 to 2019, his entire championship games so far, that he scored in and I used Willie Joe's blog for the statistics.
The format I used is fairly straightforward.
The year, the number of games he scored in, the monthly total of actual scores and finally, the number of scores from frees, penalties, 45s etc.


So, here goes....

2011, 5 games, total score 1-19, frees etc. 0-14
2012, 5 games, total score 0-21, frees etc. 0-19
2013, 5 games, total score 6-22, frees etc, 0-18
2014, 6 games, total score 5-36, frees etc. 4-25
2015, 5 games, total score 3-34, frees etc. 1-29
2016, 9 games, total score 2-44, frees etc. 1-34
2017, 10 games, total score 3-66, frees etc. 1-48
2018, 4 games, total score 3-22, frees etc. 0-18
2019, 6 games, total score  2-26, frees etc. 0-19


He scored in a total of 55 games, notching up 25-290 in all with 7-224 from placed balls. His total from play in that period was 18-66.
His overall score in points was 365 and of that, 245 came from placed balls and 120 was from open play. In other words,approximately one third of his total came from open play.


I have COC record as 25-297(372) in 55 championship  games. Remarkable record.  Sean O'Shea and maybe David Clifford  will get close to the record.

Yeah, serious return, but he's no Dazzler McCurry  ;D

Oh look, a Derry man itching to satisfy that chip on his shoulder.

Highly unlikely anyone will get close to O'Connor's record as nobody will quite get an ecosystem quite like O'Connor has had with Mayo to harvest handy scores.

Chip? Ah ha, you're the man continuously lambasting O'Connor. Haven't seen you call out any other poster on their county. Just shows, even in our current predictiment, we're never far from your thoughts. #thedazzler

Lambasting him?

I'm appraising him as a player, he has always stood out as the weak link in what was/is a fantastic Mayo team.

McCurry is not a top class forward but neither is O'Connor. You're the guy whose obsession with Tyrone saw you bring a Tyrone man into it.

I think it was The Dazzler who broke Derry's hearts last summer, still greeting over it?

To greet, or not to greet, that's the question dear Angelo

BennyCake

Quote from: Angelo on June 24, 2020, 12:32:23 PM
Quote from: Estimator on June 24, 2020, 11:53:56 AM
Quote from: Angelo on June 24, 2020, 10:58:07 AM
Quote from: Estimator on June 24, 2020, 10:39:06 AM
In fairness, 120pts from play, in Championship football puts him ahead of many others in the scoring charts. With just his scores from play he'd be ahead of many players total scores. Examples - Derry's Mark Lynch and Enda Muldoon. Ahead of Martin McHugh, D Connolly, D O'Sullivan and Tompkins.  Another 15 points from play and he'd overtake the totals of Mugsy, Coulter, Thomas Freeman, B Devenney, Enda Gormley and Paul Barden - and a good few of those got the bulk of their scores from frees.

A lot of those guys were half forwards and part time free takers and never took penalties playing for teams who did not dominate opposition quite like Mayo have.

Muldoon for example played a lot of football at midfield and probably played less Championship games in his career than O'Connor has to date.

Context is extremely important.

Of course it is. I have Muldoon and Lynch making 54 C'ship appearance for Derry. Muldoon did play out field a bit, but was regularly used as FF, as he was when Derry got to the AI semifinals in 2001 & 2004.

I have O'Connor on 55 appearances (one more than Lar accounted, but we'll not fall out over that)

The following players have made more than 55 C'ship appearances:
Gooch - 85
John Doyle - 67
Murphy - 67
B Brogan - 66
P Joyce - 60
McDonnell - 62
McManus - 57
S O'Neill - 65
Mulligan - 61
Coulter - 58

Quite a few of those were predominantly inside forwards and the go to men on the dominant team, as well as hitting frees.  A few of them have multiple All-Ireland titles. Some have one. Only Doyle, McManus and Coulter are without.

And if we are applying the logic of discounting large individual scores against "weaker" opposition, then the same should be applied to all players.
Eg Dean Rock scored 1-11 against Roscommon last year(?) That's gone.
The 3-04 McDonnell scored against Limerick in 2003
The 3-04 A O'Shea scored against Sligo in 2015

I think we should set up and panel to decide which scores count and which do not.

Comparing Stevie McDonnell with O'Connor.

Behave.

McDonnell was the focal point of that Armagh team, the go to man, hit the ball into him he will win it. It doesn't matter who was on him, low or high, right  side of left side. McDonnell was the epitome of what a top class forward was and is. The difference between him and O'Connor is absolute night and day and McDonnell had McConville taking the frees for the vast majority of his Armagh career.

O'Connor is the proxy scorer for all the brilliant work done from the likes of Keegan, Higgins, Parsons, Boyle, his brother, Doherty etc.

That's the difference you just can't seem to get your head around - O'Connor is just far too limited as a forward to ever be considered a focal point for a team, a man where everything goes through - he's a million miles off a Murphy, a Canavan, a McDonnell, a McManus. He struggles to win his own ball, he doesn't not have the power or pace to torment his marker. He doesn't have the skill or inventiveness to make that extra yard of space or extra few seconds on the ball for himself.

As a man marker you can read O'Connor, you know he's going to struggle to outpace you, outpower you, you know he doesn't have his left side, you know he doesn't have that natural flair to sell you a dummy, a shimmy or a feint. The issues for most defenders O'Connor has faced is how they cope with the extra men coming through. Do they stick with O'Connor who is a deadly finisher when given the time and space or do they go and deal with the extra bodies Mayo have coming through the middle at ferocious pace.

O'Connor would not come close to replicating his scoring records for any other county than Mayo.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. Especially the bits in bold.

Estimator

Quote from: Angelo on June 24, 2020, 05:09:16 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 24, 2020, 05:04:12 PM
Quote from: Angelo on June 24, 2020, 04:44:39 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 24, 2020, 02:55:09 PM
Quote from: Gael85 on June 24, 2020, 01:57:45 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on June 24, 2020, 12:07:36 AM
Having considerably more time than sense lately. I decided to check out Cillian's scoring returns, some of them at any rate.
I decided to concentrate on his championship games from 2011 to 2019, his entire championship games so far, that he scored in and I used Willie Joe's blog for the statistics.
The format I used is fairly straightforward.
The year, the number of games he scored in, the monthly total of actual scores and finally, the number of scores from frees, penalties, 45s etc.


So, here goes....

2011, 5 games, total score 1-19, frees etc. 0-14
2012, 5 games, total score 0-21, frees etc. 0-19
2013, 5 games, total score 6-22, frees etc, 0-18
2014, 6 games, total score 5-36, frees etc. 4-25
2015, 5 games, total score 3-34, frees etc. 1-29
2016, 9 games, total score 2-44, frees etc. 1-34
2017, 10 games, total score 3-66, frees etc. 1-48
2018, 4 games, total score 3-22, frees etc. 0-18
2019, 6 games, total score  2-26, frees etc. 0-19


He scored in a total of 55 games, notching up 25-290 in all with 7-224 from placed balls. His total from play in that period was 18-66.
His overall score in points was 365 and of that, 245 came from placed balls and 120 was from open play. In other words,approximately one third of his total came from open play.


I have COC record as 25-297(372) in 55 championship  games. Remarkable record.  Sean O'Shea and maybe David Clifford  will get close to the record.

Yeah, serious return, but he's no Dazzler McCurry  ;D

Oh look, a Derry man itching to satisfy that chip on his shoulder.

Highly unlikely anyone will get close to O'Connor's record as nobody will quite get an ecosystem quite like O'Connor has had with Mayo to harvest handy scores.

Chip? Ah ha, you're the man continuously lambasting O'Connor. Haven't seen you call out any other poster on their county. Just shows, even in our current predictiment, we're never far from your thoughts. #thedazzler

Lambasting him?

I'm appraising him as a player, he has always stood out as the weak link in what was/is a fantastic Mayo team.

McCurry is not a top class forward but neither is O'Connor. You're the guy whose obsession with Tyrone saw you bring a Tyrone man into it.

I think it was The Dazzler who broke Derry's hearts last summer, still greeting over it?

Angelo, you've brought McCurry into this thread on a number of occasions. You've compared him favourably with O'Connor. You've said (twice) that McCurry could end up as Tyrone's all time top c'ship scorer. I'd assume that JoG2 mentioned him, because you introduced him into the conversation.
Ulster League Champions 2009

rodney trotter

McCurry is the ultimate winter footballer. He shines in the soft ground of the McKenna Cup and League, found wanting in the Championship. O Connor at least has done it at the latter stages of championship

Gael85

Quote from: Estimator on June 22, 2020, 03:16:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on June 22, 2020, 10:35:24 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 22, 2020, 10:11:40 AM
You're absolutely right Angelo.

That none of the greatest forwards in the most dominant teams in history have come close to his scoring rate, well that can  only be a statistical anomaly.

He's only played 60-odd championship games. It's not a strong enough sample as what you saw one day when he was surrounded by Tyrone's blanket.

(I do wonder if it ever crosses your mind that Tyrone have played that way since 2012 because they haven't had the scoring power to compete with top-flight sides in a more open contest?)

Yup, if you put any of the greatest forwards or some fairly average ones in that Mayo team and entrusted them with free taking duties then they'd be topping the all time scoring charts.

For instance I think it's highly possible that Darren McCurry will finish up as Tyrone's all time top scorer in Championship before he calls it a day too and he's been in and out of the Tyrone team ever since he joined the panel, has taken a year out and has not been a regular free taker for the past 4 or 5 seasons now.

Scoring records don't really say a lot particularly for free takers. How would O'Connor survive being double tagged in a one man full forward line in an inferior team like Conor McManus has?

I do know that Tyrone lack a top class inside forward or did until McShane arrived on the scene last year. McCurry and McAliskey blow hot and cold but are very dangerous players in the right system and when they're firing - more dangerous than O'Connor for me personally but none of them are top level. The difference is that between 2011-present I think Mayo have been a lot strong from 1-12 than Tyrone have, you could say they have been stronger from 13-15 too but that would probably be down solely to Andy Moran too.

Just out of interest, what is McCurry's Championship total at present? Canavan has approx 210/220 points to his name.

McCurry has scored  4-96 in 39 championship games. McAliskey has scored 4-95 in 40 games

rosnarun

Quote from: Angelo on June 24, 2020, 04:51:59 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on June 24, 2020, 02:24:41 PM
Quote from: Gael85 on June 24, 2020, 01:57:45 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on June 24, 2020, 12:07:36 AM
Having considerably more time than sense lately. I decided to check out Cillian’s scoring returns, some of them at any rate.
I decided to concentrate on his championship games from 2011 to 2019, his entire championship games so far, that he scored in and I used Willie Joe’s blog for the statistics.
The format I used is fairly straightforward.
The year, the number of games he scored in, the monthly total of actual scores and finally, the number of scores from frees, penalties, 45s etc.


So, here goes….

2011, 5 games, total score 1-19, frees etc. 0-14
2012, 5 games, total score 0-21, frees etc. 0-19
2013, 5 games, total score 6-22, frees etc, 0-18
2014, 6 games, total score 5-36, frees etc. 4-25
2015, 5 games, total score 3-34, frees etc. 1-29
2016, 9 games, total score 2-44, frees etc. 1-34
2017, 10 games, total score 3-66, frees etc. 1-48
2018, 4 games, total score 3-22, frees etc. 0-18
2019, 6 games, total score  2-26, frees etc. 0-19


He scored in a total of 55 games, notching up 25-290 in all with 7-224 from placed balls. His total from play in that period was 18-66.
His overall score in points was 365 and of that, 245 came from placed balls and 120 was from open play. In other words,approximately one third of his total came from open play.


I have COC record as 25-297(372) in 55 championship  games. Remarkable record.  Sean O'Shea and maybe David Clifford  will get close to the record.
if they do They will deserve it .
and lets hope every can find it n they hearts to credit them for it , unlike the reaction to Cillain Just because he can look after himself
in fact one of the biggest barriers they will face  is each other .

I have no issue with O'Connor being able to look after himself. He just happens to be a fairly limited player who has benefited from being handed a free taking duties.

His brother who also has some of his less endearing attributes is 10 times the player COC is and one of the best half forwards in the country.

If Mayo had a Michael Murphy, Conor McManus, Paul Geaney etc, the likelihood is that O'Connor would then really struggle to make that Mayo team. They solve the free taking duties and there's no way you can say that O'Connor gives you what Andy Moran, Jason Doherty, his brother, Aidan O'Shea or Kevin McLoughlin do from play.
do you not Believe stats and relay on your own prejudices instead. Cillain is a better player than any of those when it comes to scoring and I would not swap any of them ,
then you continue your nonsense by blaming Cillian for having other great players on the team , ow far would any player get if he was playing with Donkeys
another great leadership aspect of Cillian's is you never hear him ( or any of the mayo team) whinging about how hard life is and how warm and comfortable sitting by the fire  is like Niall morgan is going on with the lst few day
.  A great way to undermine you team . Will harte put up that Crap?
If you make yourself understood, you're always speaking well. Moliere

Lar Naparka

Quote from: rosnarun on June 25, 2020, 11:03:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on June 24, 2020, 04:51:59 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on June 24, 2020, 02:24:41 PM
Quote from: Gael85 on June 24, 2020, 01:57:45 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on June 24, 2020, 12:07:36 AM
Having considerably more time than sense lately. I decided to check out Cillian's scoring returns, some of them at any rate.
I decided to concentrate on his championship games from 2011 to 2019, his entire championship games so far, that he scored in and I used Willie Joe's blog for the statistics.
The format I used is fairly straightforward.
The year, the number of games he scored in, the monthly total of actual scores and finally, the number of scores from frees, penalties, 45s etc.


So, here goes....

2011, 5 games, total score 1-19, frees etc. 0-14
2012, 5 games, total score 0-21, frees etc. 0-19
2013, 5 games, total score 6-22, frees etc, 0-18
2014, 6 games, total score 5-36, frees etc. 4-25
2015, 5 games, total score 3-34, frees etc. 1-29
2016, 9 games, total score 2-44, frees etc. 1-34
2017, 10 games, total score 3-66, frees etc. 1-48
2018, 4 games, total score 3-22, frees etc. 0-18
2019, 6 games, total score  2-26, frees etc. 0-19


He scored in a total of 55 games, notching up 25-290 in all with 7-224 from placed balls. His total from play in that period was 18-66.
His overall score in points was 365 and of that, 245 came from placed balls and 120 was from open play. In other words,approximately one third of his total came from open play.


I have COC record as 25-297(372) in 55 championship  games. Remarkable record.  Sean O'Shea and maybe David Clifford  will get close to the record.
if they do They will deserve it .
and lets hope every can find it n they hearts to credit them for it , unlike the reaction to Cillain Just because he can look after himself
in fact one of the biggest barriers they will face  is each other .

I have no issue with O'Connor being able to look after himself. He just happens to be a fairly limited player who has benefited from being handed a free taking duties.

His brother who also has some of his less endearing attributes is 10 times the player COC is and one of the best half forwards in the country.

If Mayo had a Michael Murphy, Conor McManus, Paul Geaney etc, the likelihood is that O'Connor would then really struggle to make that Mayo team. They solve the free taking duties and there's no way you can say that O'Connor gives you what Andy Moran, Jason Doherty, his brother, Aidan O'Shea or Kevin McLoughlin do from play.
do you not Believe stats and relay on your own prejudices instead. Cillain is a better player than any of those when it comes to scoring and I would not swap any of them ,
then you continue your nonsense by blaming Cillian for having other great players on the team , ow far would any player get if he was playing with Donkeys
another great leadership aspect of Cillian's is you never hear him ( or any of the mayo team) whinging about how hard life is and how warm and comfortable sitting by the fire  is like Niall morgan is going on with the lst few day
.  A great way to undermine you team . Will harte put up that Crap?
Well said. Ros. You've put your point of view very well and it's up to others to answer it-  if they can.

I've never hidden the fact that I had high hopes of Cillian in his early years. I think POTY at 20 and 21 speaks for itself. But, IMO anyway, he's gone apeshit in later years.  A hot-headed player could be a red card walking and all it needs for the opposition manager to put the great plonk on is team to mark this guy and to needles and harass him until he rears up and get a red card. Doesn't matter if theddecoy gets the line too- his loss won't be as great as the hothead's on the other team.
This hasn't happened to O'Connor yet but he's always courting disaster unless he concentrates on his football and gives up the handbagging.
However, a reporter with the Mayo News told me recently that Cillian is determined to give it a mighty lash this year as he knows time is running short for him and his mates. I'm hoping and praying that this is going to happen.
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

Angelo

Quote from: rosnarun on June 25, 2020, 11:03:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on June 24, 2020, 04:51:59 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on June 24, 2020, 02:24:41 PM
Quote from: Gael85 on June 24, 2020, 01:57:45 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on June 24, 2020, 12:07:36 AM
Having considerably more time than sense lately. I decided to check out Cillian's scoring returns, some of them at any rate.
I decided to concentrate on his championship games from 2011 to 2019, his entire championship games so far, that he scored in and I used Willie Joe's blog for the statistics.
The format I used is fairly straightforward.
The year, the number of games he scored in, the monthly total of actual scores and finally, the number of scores from frees, penalties, 45s etc.


So, here goes....

2011, 5 games, total score 1-19, frees etc. 0-14
2012, 5 games, total score 0-21, frees etc. 0-19
2013, 5 games, total score 6-22, frees etc, 0-18
2014, 6 games, total score 5-36, frees etc. 4-25
2015, 5 games, total score 3-34, frees etc. 1-29
2016, 9 games, total score 2-44, frees etc. 1-34
2017, 10 games, total score 3-66, frees etc. 1-48
2018, 4 games, total score 3-22, frees etc. 0-18
2019, 6 games, total score  2-26, frees etc. 0-19


He scored in a total of 55 games, notching up 25-290 in all with 7-224 from placed balls. His total from play in that period was 18-66.
His overall score in points was 365 and of that, 245 came from placed balls and 120 was from open play. In other words,approximately one third of his total came from open play.


I have COC record as 25-297(372) in 55 championship  games. Remarkable record.  Sean O'Shea and maybe David Clifford  will get close to the record.
if they do They will deserve it .
and lets hope every can find it n they hearts to credit them for it , unlike the reaction to Cillain Just because he can look after himself
in fact one of the biggest barriers they will face  is each other .

I have no issue with O'Connor being able to look after himself. He just happens to be a fairly limited player who has benefited from being handed a free taking duties.

His brother who also has some of his less endearing attributes is 10 times the player COC is and one of the best half forwards in the country.

If Mayo had a Michael Murphy, Conor McManus, Paul Geaney etc, the likelihood is that O'Connor would then really struggle to make that Mayo team. They solve the free taking duties and there's no way you can say that O'Connor gives you what Andy Moran, Jason Doherty, his brother, Aidan O'Shea or Kevin McLoughlin do from play.
do you not Believe stats and relay on your own prejudices instead. Cillain is a better player than any of those when it comes to scoring and I would not swap any of them ,
then you continue your nonsense by blaming Cillian for having other great players on the team , ow far would any player get if he was playing with Donkeys
another great leadership aspect of Cillian's is you never hear him ( or any of the mayo team) whinging about how hard life is and how warm and comfortable sitting by the fire  is like Niall morgan is going on with the lst few day
.  A great way to undermine you team . Will harte put up that Crap?

I have more faith in what I see than a statistic.

If you look at the Sunday reports and the scorers for your judgement then you will believe O'Connor is a top class forward but when you see him play and you see top class forwards like a McManus, Clifford, O'Callaghan, Murphy in action you see that these guys are the focal point in most or a lot of their teams scores whereas O'Connor generally finishes the good work done by Mayo's real star men.

Put it this way, if you picked an average club player and put him on the Dublin side, gave him free taking duties and guaranteed him his place and free taking duties you'd fancy he'd be one of the top scorers in Championship.

If you put Cillian O'Connor in the Antrim side or Carlow side, he probably doesn't even stand out as their best forward.

I firmly believe most counties have at least one forward as good as or better than O'Connor, he has fairly notable limitations and his scoring record is greatly helped by the team he plays for, the style of play Mayo adopt and his role in that team.
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

Angelo

#188
Quote from: rodney trotter on June 24, 2020, 09:32:47 PM
McCurry is the ultimate winter footballer. He shines in the soft ground of the McKenna Cup and League, found wanting in the Championship. O Connor at least has done it at the latter stages of championship

McCurry is not a top class forward which is why he has been in and out of the Tyrone team for the past decade. I think he's a far better player in the summer conditions than the winter ones to be fair, his problem is that he is a confidence player and when his confidence is low his return is poor. It's also worth pointing out that the style of football Tyrone have played would not have been too beneficial to a skilful inside forward.

But Cillian O'Connor is not a top class forward either, he just happened to play with better players than McCurry has in that time and play in a system and style of play which allows forwards much more time and space to impact the scoreboard.

I also think it's worth pointing that up to 50% of McCurry and McAliskey's championship appearances would have been off the bench.
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

Manning18

Quote from: rosnarun on June 25, 2020, 11:03:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on June 24, 2020, 04:51:59 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on June 24, 2020, 02:24:41 PM
Quote from: Gael85 on June 24, 2020, 01:57:45 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on June 24, 2020, 12:07:36 AM
Having considerably more time than sense lately. I decided to check out Cillian's scoring returns, some of them at any rate.
I decided to concentrate on his championship games from 2011 to 2019, his entire championship games so far, that he scored in and I used Willie Joe's blog for the statistics.
The format I used is fairly straightforward.
The year, the number of games he scored in, the monthly total of actual scores and finally, the number of scores from frees, penalties, 45s etc.


So, here goes....

2011, 5 games, total score 1-19, frees etc. 0-14
2012, 5 games, total score 0-21, frees etc. 0-19
2013, 5 games, total score 6-22, frees etc, 0-18
2014, 6 games, total score 5-36, frees etc. 4-25
2015, 5 games, total score 3-34, frees etc. 1-29
2016, 9 games, total score 2-44, frees etc. 1-34
2017, 10 games, total score 3-66, frees etc. 1-48
2018, 4 games, total score 3-22, frees etc. 0-18
2019, 6 games, total score  2-26, frees etc. 0-19


He scored in a total of 55 games, notching up 25-290 in all with 7-224 from placed balls. His total from play in that period was 18-66.
His overall score in points was 365 and of that, 245 came from placed balls and 120 was from open play. In other words,approximately one third of his total came from open play.


I have COC record as 25-297(372) in 55 championship  games. Remarkable record.  Sean O'Shea and maybe David Clifford  will get close to the record.
if they do They will deserve it .
and lets hope every can find it n they hearts to credit them for it , unlike the reaction to Cillain Just because he can look after himself
in fact one of the biggest barriers they will face  is each other .

I have no issue with O'Connor being able to look after himself. He just happens to be a fairly limited player who has benefited from being handed a free taking duties.

His brother who also has some of his less endearing attributes is 10 times the player COC is and one of the best half forwards in the country.

If Mayo had a Michael Murphy, Conor McManus, Paul Geaney etc, the likelihood is that O'Connor would then really struggle to make that Mayo team. They solve the free taking duties and there's no way you can say that O'Connor gives you what Andy Moran, Jason Doherty, his brother, Aidan O'Shea or Kevin McLoughlin do from play.
do you not Believe stats and relay on your own prejudices instead. Cillain is a better player than any of those when it comes to scoring and I would not swap any of them ,
then you continue your nonsense by blaming Cillian for having other great players on the team , ow far would any player get if he was playing with Donkeys
another great leadership aspect of Cillian's is you never hear him ( or any of the mayo team) whinging about how hard life is and how warm and comfortable sitting by the fire  is like Niall morgan is going on with the lst few day
.  A great way to undermine you team . Will harte put up that Crap?

Am I reading this correctly? You wouldn't swap Cillian for Michael Murphy or Conor McManus?

rosnarun

no because they do not score enough .
If you make yourself understood, you're always speaking well. Moliere

StephenC

That's the thing about most internet debates ... people retreat further and further back into their positions.

We now have on one side: COC is one of the premier forwards in Ireland, better than Murphy and McManus.
And on the other: COC wouldn't be the best forward on the Antrim team.

Isn't the reality that COC is a great forward (although filthy) and has demonstrated that over many years, and, his scoring record probably flatters him somewhat and he's not necessarily a better player than those lower on the scoring list.

Important to remember as well that he's just a young lad doing his best for his county. There's not too many on the board that can speak from a position of experience when it comes to IC football.

BennyCake

Quote from: rosnarun on June 25, 2020, 05:47:28 PM
no because they do not score enough .

Ah Jesus man. If either Murphy or McManus were Mayo players, you'd have 3 or 4 AIs by now.

JoG2

Quote from: StephenC on June 25, 2020, 06:23:51 PM
That's the thing about most internet debates ... people retreat further and further back into their positions.

We now have on one side: COC is one of the premier forwards in Ireland better than Murphy and McManus
And on the other: COC wouldn't be the best forward on the Antrim team.

Isn't the reality that COC is a great forward (although filthy) and has demonstrated that over many years, and, his scoring record probably flatters him somewhat and he's not necessarily a better player than those lower on the scoring list.

Important to remember as well that he's just a young lad doing his best for his county. There's not too many on the board that can speak from a position of experience when it comes to IC football.

I don't think anyone is saying it. Someone half read a sentence by rosnarun and others are responding to it. He states O'Connor is better at scoring. The stats back it up. Is there anyone really saying O'Connor is a better footballer than McManus or Murphy, don't think so.

Quote from: BennyCake on June 25, 2020, 06:25:02 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on June 25, 2020, 05:47:28 PM
no because they do not score enough .

Ah Jesus man. If either Murphy or McManus were Mayo players, you'd have 3 or 4 AIs by now.

Again, read what Ross wrote. Did you not once famously say O'Connor wasn't consistent Benny? You've some benchmark for consistency

Blowitupref

Mayo lacking scoring power to win any of their 2012,2013, 2016, 2017 finals is a bit of myth, Mayo problems in finals was self inflicted. A bad habit of conceding goals that were easy to avoid, goal keeping errors at key stages in games and OGs.

Mayos last final appearance 3 years ago had forwards that included the seasons top scorer Cillian O Connor and Andy Moran the footballer of the year yet Mayo still found a way to lose and Vaughan foolishly getting himself played a big part in that final defeat.
Is the ref going to finally blow his whistle?... No, he's going to blow his nose