American Sports Thread

[gallsman]

the anthem isn't playing though while they are kneeling. A military vet or active will never kneel during the anthem... it's become something much more now and it's taking away from sports. there will be nothing left soon...

Kap started kneeling after discussions with vets.

[Longshanks]

Do you think Kap will get picked up by a club again, I know he wasn't at his best when released but he is plenty better than the vast majority of QBs out there and only 29, QBs normally only ever get better with experience.

[J70]

the anthem isn't playing though while they are kneeling. A military vet or active will never kneel during the anthem... it's become something much more now and it's taking away from sports. there will be nothing left soon...

It had settled down though, with small numbers of players quietly engaging amidst not much publicity, especially with Kaepernick black-listed and out of the league.

Trump is the one who threw down the gauntlet and forced the issue back to the top of the news.

You think you would have seen Jerry Jones down on the field on his knees without Trump?

[J70]

Do you think Kap will get picked up by a club again, I know he wasn't at his best when released but he is plenty better than the vast majority of QBs out there and only 29, QBs normally only ever get better with experience.

He played all right last year once he got back in.

With his strengths, he is limited in a league where the star quarterbacks with a bit of longevity are the ones who can see the passes and throw the ball consistently well, but there aren't too many of them around. Cutler is still a starter FFS!

[AZOffaly]

Kaepernick was not playing well J70. He was poor. However, is he better than some of the starters in the league? Maybe. He's definitely better than some of the backups.

But if he was a top player, he'd have a job even if he set fire to the flag. And if he doesn't get a job with all the emotion stirred up recently, it's because nobody thinks he can do it. His mechanics were poor coming out of UNLV, and I said it back then. Puck used to slag me about it. He played very well for a time, based on his athletic ability. When he started getting under pressure, and had to rely on his technique, he started to falter. Then he started to panic. Then  he started to make crazy decisions.

At the moment, I think maybe the only place he could start is Miami, although Cutler is probably a sounder quarterback, Cleveland (maybe), San Francisco (ironically), and probably the Jets.  However he is a veteran, so I'm not sure how cheap he'd be, and maybe those teams just want cheap and cheerful as they try draft their long term quarterback. Whatever he is, Kaepernick is not the long term solution to anything.

[J70]

Didn't say he played well, or that he didn't struggle for a few years, especially 2015. I said he did ok when he got the starting job back last season. Certainly showed enough that he should be good enough for a back-up position or even challenging for a starting position at some of the worse-off teams.

[AZOffaly]

Didn't say he played well, or that he didn't struggle for a few years, especially 2015. I said he did ok when he got the starting job back last season. Certainly showed enough that he should be good enough for a back-up position or even challenging for a starting position at some of the worse-off teams.

I thought he looked like a busted flush in 2016/ He had a QBR in the low 60s I think. He just kept fumbling and panicking. I think there are other factors around whether he'd be worth a starting job, and he may be too dear for a backup.

These are the current starters.

NFC West   Arizona Cardinals (list)   Carson Palmer   USC   2003 (1)   - Nope
NFC South   Atlanta Falcons (list)   Matt Ryan   Boston College   2008 (3)   - Nope
AFC North   Baltimore Ravens (list)   Joe Flacco   Delaware   2008 (18)   - Nope (although he's also showing signs of decline)
AFC East   Buffalo Bills (list)   Tyrod Taylor   Virginia Tech   2011 (180) - Nope
NFC South   Carolina Panthers (list)   Cam Newton   Auburn   2011 (1)   - Nope
NFC North   Chicago Bears (list)   Mike Glennon   NC State   2013 (73)   - Nope
AFC North   Cincinnati Bengals (list)   Andy Dalton   TCU   2011 (35)   - Nope, but he's playing badly at the moment.
AFC North   Cleveland Browns (list)   DeShone Kizer   Notre Dame   2017 (52)   - Maybe, but he's the future so probably not.
NFC East   Dallas Cowboys (list)   Dak Prescott   Mississippi State   2016 (135)   - Nope
AFC West   Denver Broncos (list)   Trevor Siemian   Northwestern   2015 (250)   - Nope
NFC North   Detroit Lions (list)   Matthew Stafford   Georgia   2009 (1)   - Nope
NFC North   Green Bay Packers (list)   Aaron Rodgers   California   2005 (24)   - Nope
AFC South   Houston Texans (list)   Deshaun Watson   Clemson   2017 (12)   - Again, the future, so Nope
AFC South   Indianapolis Colts (list)   Jacoby Brissett   NC State   2016 (91)   - Maybe, but Andrew Luck is the man here.
AFC South   Jacksonville Jaguars (list)   Blake Bortles   UCF   2014 (3)   - Maybe
AFC West   Kansas City Chiefs (list)   Alex Smith   Utah   2005 (1)   - Nope
AFC West   Los Angeles Chargers (list)   Philip Rivers   NC State   2004 (4)   - Nope
NFC West   Los Angeles Rams (list)   Jared Goff   California   2016 (1)   - Nope
AFC East   Miami Dolphins (list)   Jay Cutler   Vanderbilt   2006 (11)   - Maybe
NFC North   Minnesota Vikings (list)   Case Keenum   Houston   - Yes, but this is really Sam Bradford
AFC East   New England Patriots (list)   Tom Brady   Michigan   - Yes
NFC South   New Orleans Saints (list)   Drew Brees   Purdue   - Nope
NFC East   New York Giants (list)   Eli Manning   Ole Miss   2004 (1)   - Nope
AFC East   New York Jets (list)   Josh McCown   Sam Houston State   - Maybe
AFC West   Oakland Raiders (list)   Derek Carr   Fresno State   2014 (36)   - No
NFC East   Philadelphia Eagles (list)   Carson Wentz   North Dakota State   2016 (2)   - No
AFC North   Pittsburgh Steelers (list)   Ben Roethlisberger   Miami (OH)   2004 (11)   - No
NFC West   San Francisco 49ers (list)   Brian Hoyer   Michigan State   Undrafted   - Yes
NFC West   Seattle Seahawks (list)   Russell Wilson   Wisconsin   2012 (75)   - No
NFC South   Tampa Bay Buccaneers (list)   Jameis Winston   Florida State   2015 (1)   - No
AFC South   Tennessee Titans (list)   Marcus Mariota   Oregon   2015 (2)   - No
NFC East   Washington Redskins (list)   Kirk Cousins   Michigan State - No


All in all, I'd say he's good enough for a backup, but precious few starting jobs and even those might have mitigating circumstances re. cost etc.

[J70]

Per ESPN's data, he was seventh worst out of 32 last year, ahead of Eli, Wentz and others.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr/_/year/2016

QB rating alone obviously isn't the only figure to go by (other numbers show how his strength is on the side of running/scrambling, while Eli, for example, was hamstrung by a horrible offensive line), but he is at least worth a shot as a back-up/game manager. The potential controversy (and perhaps money too) outweighed what he could offer. Now Trump has landed them all in it up to their necks anyway.

One wonders where the line would be if it was, say, Odell Beckham Jr. (clearly not the thoughtful lad that Kaepernick is!) who had led it?

[TabClear]

Didn't say he played well, or that he didn't struggle for a few years, especially 2015. I said he did ok when he got the starting job back last season. Certainly showed enough that he should be good enough for a back-up position or even challenging for a starting position at some of the worse-off teams.

He is definitely good enough to be a backup. There is no doubt that his two successful years where he made the Championship GAmes and the SB were based on an element of  "surprise" factor (and an awesome SF defence). His athletic ability got him out of holes and everything clicked. The only slight issue with him as a starter on those  weaker teams is that if you are bringing a young QB through, Kaepernick is not the best player to learn from because his mechanics/decision making are not the best.

[AZOffaly]

Per ESPN's data, he was seventh worst out of 32 last year, ahead of Eli, Wentz and others.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr/_/year/2016

QB rating alone obviously isn't the only figure to go by (other numbers show how his strength is on the side of running/scrambling, while Eli, for example, was hamstrung by a horrible offensive line), but he is at least worth a shot as a back-up/game manager. The potential controversy (and perhaps money too) outweighed what he could offer. Now Trump has landed them all in it up to their necks anyway.

One wonders where the line would be if it was, say, Odell Beckham Jr. (clearly not the thoughtful lad that Kaepernick is!) who had led it?

OBJ would still be in the league.  I don't think that's a doubt.

I suppose the question is, would Kaepernick be in the league if he HADN'T done this?

[magpie seanie]

Per ESPN's data, he was seventh worst out of 32 last year, ahead of Eli, Wentz and others.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr/_/year/2016

QB rating alone obviously isn't the only figure to go by (other numbers show how his strength is on the side of running/scrambling, while Eli, for example, was hamstrung by a horrible offensive line), but he is at least worth a shot as a back-up/game manager. The potential controversy (and perhaps money too) outweighed what he could offer. Now Trump has landed them all in it up to their necks anyway.

One wonders where the line would be if it was, say, Odell Beckham Jr. (clearly not the thoughtful lad that Kaepernick is!) who had led it?

OBJ would still be in the league.  I don't think that's a doubt.

I suppose the question is, would Kaepernick be in the league if he HADN'T done this?

I believe he would but I just think owners want to avoid controversy. They want to maximise cash and would think it pointless to add him as a backup and have to deal with the unwanted publicity. If a starting QB goes down, especially one who runs a bit, I could see a team picking him up as a stop gap. I'm thinking Seattle, Carolina (he's actually not much worse than Cam on current form!), Houston - teams with decent defences who may be in contention for playoffs. The owners will wear the hype if he's doing a job and helping them win.

[AZOffaly]

Spot on. That's why I think it's more complex than he's out of the league because he did this. He's out of the league because he brings the pub, and his form is not good enough to outweigh it. Coaches and owners hate talking about stuff like this, and Kaepernick became a sideshow, and wasn't playing well enough to counter it.

I have to admit, at the time I wondered whether it was a double bluff by Kaepernick. He knew he was struggling and I thought he may have done this to make it harder for the niners to let him go, in case they were seen as racist. But I was guilty of applying Irish machiavellian political maneuvering to a more straightforward political statement.

Of course now the publicity might be a positive given the recent turn of events!

[Syferus]

Cam Newton is an NFL MVP. You only need to look at where Carolina were when he was drafted to see what a difference he's made. Comparing Kaepernick to him is like comparing a Honda Civic to a Porsche.

[gallsman]

Christ, you're so sensitive about him you feel the need to defend him against the mildest of harmless jibes.

Cam is looking more like a battered old Mazda MX-5 than a Porsche at the minute.

[AZOffaly]

Looks like a few college basketball programs are in trouble for bribing athletes or taking money to set the athletes up with certain management companies. Rick Pittino is basically gone at Louisville, and USC, Arizona and Miami are also implicated, with others. Also Adidas seem to be up to their neck in it. It's an FBI investigation too, not just an NCAA probe.