Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football

[stephenite]

the handpass rule is very positive imo and you could clearly see that players were reluctant to give the 3rd handpass so they looked to kick at all times,

What???

There was a moment last week when Tyrone broke brilliantly from their own 45. 2 handpasses and Harte had three runners steaming ahead of him. So he kicked a hand pass. 3 yards. Why?

New rules stymie those whose styles they were bought in to counter.

[Itchy]

the handpass rule is very positive imo and you could clearly see that players were reluctant to give the 3rd handpass so they looked to kick at all times,

What???

There was a moment last week when Tyrone broke brilliantly from their own 45. 2 handpasses and Harte had three runners steaming ahead of him. So he kicked a hand pass. 3 yards. Why?

Why? Because Tyrone had everyone behind the ball to start with. Maybe if they didnt they might have been able to attack from one end of the field to t he other without 10 handpasses. This is the problem. Tyrone and Fermanagh were 2 point each at Half time few weeks ago as both of them were set up like this. In my opinion the rules are trying  to incentivise teams to stop setting up like that. It will take time for coaches completely set in their ways to start thinking "how do I need to set up my team to maximise performance with these rules". At the moment coaches are thinking "how do I get rid of these rules as it will work against everything I've been doing for the past years"

In addition, just this morning I was talking to a referree who is one of the top ones in the country, I asked him genuinely what he thought from a ref perspective. He felt it wasnt that bad to referee and that he was in favour of trying it for the league. I havent heard any grumbling from referees yet but ironically plenty of grumbling on their behalf from "concerned" managers.

[Maiden1]

I think all the new stats that the managers are using and presenting to players might be making players more reluctant to pass the ball long.  Who wants to be the player with the 60% pass success rate when you lose by a point when everyone else is in the 90s.

But stats can be misinterpreted as well.  e.g.  Player X has a 60% pass completion rate by trying to pick out the full forward and player Y can have a 95% pass completion rate by passing the ball side ways 3 yards.  But really player Y pass has gone nowhere and if player Y with this 95% pass success rate hand passed it 10 times he will have 40% chance that 1 of them will go astray (0.95)^10 = 59.9.  His overall 3 yard pass success rate will still be 95% though he hasn't really benefited the team really.

You hear it all the time in sports stats e.g.  snooker.  Player X has a 100% long ball pot success rate and player B has 60%.  and the 100% is supposed to be great even though they are losing.

I could go for 1 pot get it and never try another 1 and get whipped 10 nil but my long pot success says 100%.

[Zulu]

That's exactly it Maiden1. The game has become a percentages game, why kick it 10 times when you might lose it 50% of the time as opposed to hand passing it 30 times and maybe losing it once or twice? Game management is what we call it I think.

Winning football is now invariably boring football because teams get bodies back and are organised enough that they can get the extra bodies where they need them most of the time. The handpass rule may just encourage teams to start leaving players up so that they have someone to kick to and the game may open up again.


I was willing to give the game the room to evolve naturally but I just don't see us naturally moving back to a more kick orientated game anymore and if the game is to be a good spectacle we need to do that IMO.

[Ringfort]

Yes, the handpass rule is there to make the blanket less attractive. When a ball is turnedover near your own goal and you only have three fist passes to get out of danger you damn well better have men up the field or out wide to kick it to. The only teams who would continue to play blankets are minnows looking to avoid tankings. The rest of the games would open up as the skills of accurate kicking, catching, getting out in front, winning duels etc would come to the fore. As is natural the best and most gifted players would thrive, the best teams usually would win. Not the best coaching systems and fittest players who are just carriers of the ball as is now the case. It would see a move away from possession based football towards one with more "turnovers" or contested possessions as the ball will have to be released more frequently. A bit like the way it is in hurling, where the battles one on one and play shifting this way and that make it an exciting spectacle for the crowd and exciting to participate it in for the player. Those teams persisting under the new hand pass rule with mass defence would soon be found out as teams realise that when a forward ball is lost or turned over you press and harry the hell out of the defence as there are only 3 fist passes until they have to kick it and with hardly any forwards up the mass defence team is going to be camped in for quite a while!

[joemamas]

the handpass rule is very positive imo and you could clearly see that players were reluctant to give the 3rd handpass so they looked to kick at all times,

What???

There was a moment last week when Tyrone broke brilliantly from their own 45. 2 handpasses and Harte had three runners steaming ahead of him. So he kicked a hand pass. 3 yards. Why?

Why? Because Tyrone had everyone behind the ball to start with. Maybe if they didnt they might have been able to attack from one end of the field to t he other without 10 handpasses. This is the problem. Tyrone and Fermanagh were 2 point each at Half time few weeks ago as both of them were set up like this. In my opinion the rules are trying  to incentivise teams to stop setting up like that. It will take time for coaches completely set in their ways to start thinking "how do I need to set up my team to maximise performance with these rules". At the moment coaches are thinking "how do I get rid of these rules as it will work against everything I've been doing for the past years"

In addition, just this morning I was talking to a referree who is one of the top ones in the country, I asked him genuinely what he thought from a ref perspective. He felt it wasnt that bad to referee and that he was in favour of trying it for the league. I havent heard any grumbling from referees yet but ironically plenty of grumbling on their behalf from "concerned" managers.

The points you made that I underlined;

A) sum up the reason why it should be given a chance.
B) why a lot of current manager are totally against it. (That is until they are fired or leave and then become pundits, at which point the will bemoan the quality of Gaelic football as a spectacle).

[johnnycool]

I think all the new stats that the managers are using and presenting to players might be making players more reluctant to pass the ball long.  Who wants to be the player with the 60% pass success rate when you lose by a point when everyone else is in the 90s.

But stats can be misinterpreted as well.  e.g.  Player X has a 60% pass completion rate by trying to pick out the full forward and player Y can have a 95% pass completion rate by passing the ball side ways 3 yards.  But really player Y pass has gone nowhere and if player Y with this 95% pass success rate hand passed it 10 times he will have 40% chance that 1 of them will go astray (0.95)^10 = 59.9.  His overall 3 yard pass success rate will still be 95% though he hasn't really benefited the team really.

You hear it all the time in sports stats e.g.  snooker.  Player X has a 100% long ball pot success rate and player B has 60%.  and the 100% is supposed to be great even though they are losing.

I could go for 1 pot get it and never try another 1 and get whipped 10 nil but my long pot success says 100%.

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

You'd like to think that these backroom teams are prepared to be more nuanced in so far that one pass doesn't necessarily equate to the same value as another pass with greater risk involved but may result in a score.

A Trevor Giles or a Ciaran McDonald type player may have had poor success rates but when they were successful a scoring chance more often than not was created unlike the worker bees playing safe in a system we see now.

[Maiden1]

I think all the new stats that the managers are using and presenting to players might be making players more reluctant to pass the ball long.  Who wants to be the player with the 60% pass success rate when you lose by a point when everyone else is in the 90s.

But stats can be misinterpreted as well.  e.g.  Player X has a 60% pass completion rate by trying to pick out the full forward and player Y can have a 95% pass completion rate by passing the ball side ways 3 yards.  But really player Y pass has gone nowhere and if player Y with this 95% pass success rate hand passed it 10 times he will have 40% chance that 1 of them will go astray (0.95)^10 = 59.9.  His overall 3 yard pass success rate will still be 95% though he hasn't really benefited the team really.

You hear it all the time in sports stats e.g.  snooker.  Player X has a 100% long ball pot success rate and player B has 60%.  and the 100% is supposed to be great even though they are losing.

I could go for 1 pot get it and never try another 1 and get whipped 10 nil but my long pot success says 100%.

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

You'd like to think that these backroom teams are prepared to be more nuanced in so far that one pass doesn't necessarily equate to the same value as another pass with greater risk involved but may result in a score.

A Trevor Giles or a Ciaran McDonald type player may have had poor success rates but when they were successful a scoring chance more often than not was created unlike the worker bees playing safe in a system we see now.

I hope and presume they are more nuanced.  But a manager who maybe never used a stats sheet in his life suddenly gets presented with all this information and also a player getting emailed their numbers for the match, are they all realising that maybe it's ok to have a 60% pass success rate depending on what you trying to do.  Trevor Giles, Ciaran McDonald, Marty Clarke I bet they all have sh1te pass completion rates compared to the average now.  My fear is that every time a player takes a chance and it doesn't come off they are more likely to go for the safe option the next time.  The same thing with shooting.  In theory you might think 100% shooting success rate was great but it might  mean your team needs to start shooting more.

[Blowitupref]

When is the official word coming out if these new rules are staying in place for the NFL or not? A bit daft having teams currently training to adjust to the new rules when they might not be used in the weeks ahead.

[Rossfan]

C C meeting tomorrow.

[tippabu]

Well we will all see in the o Byrne cup on tg4 tonight the rules live on tv.

[tippabu]

Ok....1 thing....are the new rule applied for o Byrne cup and if so has the kick out rule been modified? I thought the ball had to pass the 45?

[Blowitupref]

Well we will all see in the o Byrne cup on tg4 tonight the rules live on tv.

13 mins gone  1 score, not sure are the new rules to blame for such a low quality and error ridden game so far?

[tippabu]

Well we will all see in the o Byrne cup on tg4 tonight the rules live on tv.

13 mins gone  1 score, not sure are the new rules to blame for such a low quality and error ridden game so far?

No....tbf, new rules have had no effect in a negative way as of yet

[tippabu]

Sideline going backwards just now....but that's an awful rule for me and never used in a negative way....Dublin were going back to go forward