The OFFICIAL Liverpool Supporters thread

[ONeill]

From Eurosport:

FICTION 1: "Two years ago we were playing a lot of early kick-offs away on Saturdays when United were playing on Sundays. And we didn't say anything."

FACT 1: Rafael Benitez, September 2007: "We will be talking to the Premier League about this because it is not fair. I don't know if it is possible to change these fixtures in the New Year, but I hope so because, in the last few years, we have played more games on a Saturday than anyone and more away games than anyone. There are too many early kick-offs and I am not pleased about the situation at all."

FICTION 2: "You can see every single week how they put (referees) under pressure, we know this. We have seen it before. We have seen players sent off at Old Trafford and we do not see our opponents sent off."

FACT 2: Opposition players sent off at Old Trafford in the league this season - none. Stoke's Andy Wilkinson is the only player to be sent off against United in the Premier League this season. Opposition players sent off against Liverpool this season - five, including Nemanja Vidic of Manchester United.

FICTION 3: "Now he is complaining about everything, that everybody is against United. But the second half of the season will see them playing at home against all the teams at the top of the table, it is a fantastic advantage."

FACT 3: Last time ED checked everyone had to play everyone else twice - surely the order in which you play your games is irrelevant. And it's not like United covered themselves in glory in their away games against the top four - one point out of nine hardly represents a fantastic advantage.

FICTION 4: "At Christmas, United played on the 29th and the rest of the teams played on the 28th. We were away against Newcastle two days after playing Bolton. They were playing about 40 hours later, they were not complaining then."

FACT 4: United played 31 hours later, but their opponents Middlesbrough also had the benefit of an extra day's rest so it wasn't much help. And Liverpool's game against Newcastle was so one-sided they would have exerted themselves more by staying in and watching Wallace and Gromit. Plus, to be really pedantic, Aston Villa - who are level on points with United - played Hull on Tuesday 30.

FICTION 5: "There are two options if we don't want more problems with fixtures. One is the same as in Spain, the draw for the first part of the league is known, everyone knows which weekend. In the second-half everyone plays the opposite, so you all know."

FACT 5: That wouldn't help at all. You all know your fixtures anyway, and a Spanish system wouldn't stop United playing all of the Big Four at home in the second half of the season.

FICTION 6: "During the Respect campaign - and this is a fact - Mr Ferguson was charged by the FA for improper conduct after comments made about Martin Atkinson and Keith Hackett. He was not punished. He is the only manager in the league that cannot be punished for these things."

FACT 6: Harry Redknapp can also get away with it, having got off scot-free for this pop at Steve Tanner: "He's a poor referee and I've seen him make a mess of so many games. I couldn't even put into words what I thought of his performance. I walked into the referee's room before the game and saw who was refereeing and I knew what was coming. I expected that sort of performance. I've had him before many times and I know what he's like. He's really not good enough."

FICTION 7: "I will be watching United's game with Chelsea. The result does not matter to us, if we win at Stoke that result does not matter."

FACT 7: Sorry, that one was a fact.

[EC Unique]

    Class stuff

[magpie seanie]

Exactly - a "fact" is not a fact just because you say it is.

Corn - did you look at the fixtures United had after Champions League games versus the others? Do you not think it strange that after ALL 6 games United had a tough aways match. Would you not think it strange that United have had to play ALL the other teams that finished in the top half of the Premiership last year in the portion of the season where they also had the European Super Cup and the World Club Championship? I think Ferguson is definitely within his rights to point out how unlucky his side have been at the hands of the fixtures computer. If the fixtures came out the same for Liverpool there's no doubt Benitez would be cribbing.

As for the comment about Rooney - come on Corn! You've lost it if you think that.

[Billys Boots]

The supposed 'facts' in that piece are hardly facts either, are they? 

The genius about Ferguson is that he gets his 'pops' in incidentally - he never calls a press-conference to slag anyone off, he usually uses any opportunity to deflect unwanted attention from United's failings by drawing attention to something irrelevant.  Happily, for him, the combined intelligence of the press-corps are happy to play along.

[corn02]

Exactly - a "fact" is not a fact just because you say it is.

Corn - did you look at the fixtures United had after Champions League games versus the others? Do you not think it strange that after ALL 6 games United had a tough aways match. Would you not think it strange that United have had to play ALL the other teams that finished in the top half of the Premiership last year in the portion of the season where they also had the European Super Cup and the World Club Championship? I think Ferguson is definitely within his rights to point out how unlucky his side have been at the hands of the fixtures computer. If the fixtures came out the same for Liverpool there's no doubt Benitez would be cribbing.

As for the comment about Rooney - come on Corn! You've lost it if you think that.

Liverpool and Uniteds fixture schedule have been similar. Liverpool did not get advantage when they played in it a couple of years back, so why the problem?

Re: Rooney. You said rightly that Mascherano was red carded for abusing the ref. Rooney told the ref to f**k off a couple of times yesterday, as he has done on numerous occassion this season. By your logic he should have walked every time then? I don;t see how that is me losing it?

[BerfArmagh]

Liverpool will not win the premier league for one reason & one reason only, rafa...

The man is a clown, he spent 50 odd million on 2 strikers and they sat on the bench for a crucial away game against a hard to beat stoke. The owners must be wondering why the give him funds to buy players. He seems to be falling into the same trap of trying to keep players fresh for the title run in. Torres needs as much game time as possible to get back to fitness. By the time he does that united will have pulled away. The Stoke game was crucial to apply pressure to united....

+ hes playing silly games with fergie, looks like round 1 to fergie...

[corn02]

Liverpool will not win the premier league for one reason & one reason only, rafa...

The man is a clown, he spent 50 odd million on 2 strikers and they sat on the bench for a crucial away game against a hard to beat stoke. The owners must be wondering why the give him funds to buy players. He seems to be falling into the same trap of trying to keep players fresh for the title run in. Torres needs as much game time as possible to get back to fitness. By the time he does that united will have pulled away. The Stoke game was crucial to apply pressure to united....

+ hes playing silly games with fergie, looks like round 1 to fergie...

Thank f**k your not manager. Amazing the amount of stick a man can get when sitting four points on top of the table.

[full back]

If fairness corn, the reason he is getting stick is for the amont of points he is dropping against the lesser teams

Edit
And the manner in which he is dropping points

[GalwayBayBoy]

Liverpool will not win the premier league for one reason & one reason only, rafa...

The man is a clown, he spent 50 odd million on 2 strikers and they sat on the bench for a crucial away game against a hard to beat stoke. The owners must be wondering why the give him funds to buy players. He seems to be falling into the same trap of trying to keep players fresh for the title run in. Torres needs as much game time as possible to get back to fitness. By the time he does that united will have pulled away. The Stoke game was crucial to apply pressure to united....

Torres had played about 20 minutes in six weeks. There was no way he was going to start the game. Would have had him on at half-time though and Keane should have been introduced at some point as well.

[corn02]

Liverpool will not win the premier league for one reason & one reason only, rafa...

The man is a clown, he spent 50 odd million on 2 strikers and they sat on the bench for a crucial away game against a hard to beat stoke. The owners must be wondering why the give him funds to buy players. He seems to be falling into the same trap of trying to keep players fresh for the title run in. Torres needs as much game time as possible to get back to fitness. By the time he does that united will have pulled away. The Stoke game was crucial to apply pressure to united....

Torres had played about 20 minutes in six weeks. There was no way he was going to start the game. Would have had him on at half-time though and Keane should have been introduced at some point as well.

Agreed on that, he called it wrong on substitutes, but I had no problem with his first 11.

Yes fullback, but every team, including United has done it. Stoke nearly took points off United too - the difference is probably that United got the points and that is why there is still a gap wbetween the two. The Rafa malarky also takes away from the fact that Stoke deserve credit, they played well. The Liverpool forum I be on is overcome with season ticket holders. For the Hull match they had no complaints and nothing but praise for the way Hull played. They said the work-rate, speed and attiude was spot on. Stoke was similar, they defended deep and broke on the counter. We were over run at midfield. At the start of the season no Liverpool fan could have envisioned being in this position, so lets keep it realistic. We have no right to swat away every team, dissapppoint? Yes. Frustrating? Yes. But no team does not drop points in games they sould have won.

[brokencrossbar1]

Lads, I am a big Rafa fan, but I am seriously doubting some of his judgement calls.  From a position where Liverpool were clear leaders they have dropped silly points to leave it that United can leap frog them over the next few matches if they win their games in hand.  They needed t put the pressure on Stoke and that was not going to happen with a willing, but limited Kuyt.  The simple fact is that against the likes of theses teams you need to attack as they will not pressurise your defence the way other teams will. 2 lost points and a media attack which could have been done slightly better in my view, and the future is not as rosey as it was.

[full back]

Yes fullback, but every team, including United has done it. Stoke nearly took points off United too - the difference is probably that United got the points and that is why there is still a gap wbetween the two.

No corn, the difference is that Fergie went all out to win the game, unlike Rafa

Could you imagine Utd starting say Berbatov up front by himself. He puts Rooney on when the score is still 0-0 with Tevez still on the bench. The game finishes 0-0 against Stoke with a £20 million striker (Tevez) still on the bench as well.
No chance, Fergie would empty the bench to get a result

[corn02]

Yes fullback, but every team, including United has done it. Stoke nearly took points off United too - the difference is probably that United got the points and that is why there is still a gap wbetween the two.

No corn, the difference is that Fergie went all out to win the game, unlike Rafa

Could you imagine Utd starting say Berbatov up front by himself. He puts Rooney on when the score is still 0-0 with Tevez still on the bench. The game finishes 0-0 against Stoke with a £20 million striker (Tevez) still on the bench as well.
No chance, Fergie would empty the bench to get a result

Good point.

[The Real Laoislad]

Yes fullback, but every team, including United has done it. Stoke nearly took points off United too - the difference is probably that United got the points and that is why there is still a gap wbetween the two.

No corn, the difference is that Fergie went all out to win the game, unlike Rafa

Could you imagine Utd starting say Berbatov up front by himself. He puts Rooney on when the score is still 0-0 with Tevez still on the bench. The game finishes 0-0 against Stoke with a £20 million striker (Tevez) still on the bench as well.
No chance, Fergie would empty the bench to get a result

Exactly full back,Saying things like Keane was shite against Preston so don't bother bringing him on like some have said here is ridiculous,the man has scored goals his whole career he hasn't become a bad player overnight ffs,but he's not going to get the goals warming the bench.
Rafa should have went for broke with 20mins to go yesterday
A blind man could see the formation wasn't working,bringing on a half fit Torres to wander around up front on his own was never going to get them the 3 points,Rafa seemed happy with the single point which to be honest concerns me a little

[magpie seanie]

Exactly - a "fact" is not a fact just because you say it is.

Corn - did you look at the fixtures United had after Champions League games versus the others? Do you not think it strange that after ALL 6 games United had a tough aways match. Would you not think it strange that United have had to play ALL the other teams that finished in the top half of the Premiership last year in the portion of the season where they also had the European Super Cup and the World Club Championship? I think Ferguson is definitely within his rights to point out how unlucky his side have been at the hands of the fixtures computer. If the fixtures came out the same for Liverpool there's no doubt Benitez would be cribbing.

As for the comment about Rooney - come on Corn! You've lost it if you think that.

Liverpool and Uniteds fixture schedule have been similar. Liverpool did not get advantage when they played in it a couple of years back, so why the problem?

Re: Rooney. You said rightly that Mascherano was red carded for abusing the ref. Rooney told the ref to f**k off a couple of times yesterday, as he has done on numerous occassion this season. By your logic he should have walked every time then? I don;t see how that is me losing it?

You're not comparing like with like. Mascherano practically asked begged the referee to send him off.