The OFFICIAL Liverpool Supporters thread

[corn02]

I agree. Last year plenty of Pool fans were getting stuck into Xabi and all of a sudden it would be a disaster? Barry has been excellent in a mediocre team this last few years. He coulf flourish at Liverpool.

[Mentalman]

Fookin' disaster if Liverpool sell Xabi to Arsenal, especially at a lowered price. Is this what Liverpool are reduced too, selling good players to their rivals? And for what? So they can land Gareth Barry? Talk about being through the looking glass, this period under the Americans is turning into a nightmare.

FFS, Benitez preferring Barry to Alonso has absolutely nothing to do with the Americans!!

If Barry is signed, then Alonso will evenutally want to go because he'll be getting feck all games, so it'll make sense to sell him sooner rather than later to get a bigger fee.

Though of course everyone would much sooner see him playing with Atletico Madrid or similar rather than Arsenal!

And from what I've seen and read, about 20% of Liverpool supporters agree with Benitez that Barry is better than Alonso, but that's beside the point.

I didn't say it was, but it seems since their takeover, other than signing Torres, very little has gone right - perhaps that's coincidence. Right now Liverpool are in the situation that they have to sell to complete the purchases they want - i.e. finance is an issue. Far from the golden age promised by the spetics when they came in. I wonder if Sir Alex wanted to sign Barry, would he have to sell Carrick first? Is Liverpool's midfield so strong and invincibly fit that we can't facilitate a player of Xabi's undoubted ability? I mean we are shorn of a number of players for the styart of the season, and if we out Alonso and in Barry, we're getting rid of one quality midfielder with a full preseason, and bringing in a decent to good player who missed the majority of preseason becuase he wasn't professional enough to keep his mouth shut. Listen I think Barry is a good player, and can fill a number of positions, and great if Liverpool sign him - but with all the fuss and at the cost of Alonso? I'm not convinced. It's no mistake that Wenger wants him.

[Mentalman]

Leto signs Olympiakos loan deal 

Liverpool midfielder Sebastian Leto has agreed a two-year loan deal with Olympiakos after being denied a work permit to play in England next season.

The 21-year-old Argentine, who joined the Reds from Lanus for around £2m in 2007, was granted an Italian passport last summer but it was later revoked.

That left Leto needing a work permit but Liverpool's application was refused by the Department of Work and Pensions.

And he arrived in Greece on Monday to complete his medical with Olympiakos.

"Olympiakos is a challenge for me. I know I will be here for two years," Leto told the club's official website.

"I've had two weeks of pre-season training with Liverpool and I believe I will be ready to do whatever I have to.

"Olympiakos are a great team who challenge for every honour in Greece and in the Champions League.

"The team has some good players, a well known coach and fanatical supporters which always inspires them."

On Monday, Liverpool manager Rafael Benitez expressed his belief that the decision not to give Leto a work permit was unfair.

"I am disappointed and it was a surprise because this is a player who has played in the Champions League and been in the Argentina squad for the Olympic Games," Benitez told Liverpool's website.

"You have managers talking about how good he is, so I think the system needs to change.

"We have maybe eight or 10 teams in Spain, Italy and Greece asking about him. When you have eight or 10 teams asking about a player and he's not playing, it means that he is good."

Benitez remains confident that Leto still has a future at Anfield, however, adding: "He has a long contract, and I think he can impress and next year will be a different situation."

Leto played four times for Liverpool last season in the Champions League and Carling Cup but is yet to make his Premier League debut for the club.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/7540678.stm

[stevo-08]

I didn't say it was, but it seems since their takeover, other than signing Torres, very little has gone right - perhaps that's coincidence. Right now Liverpool are in the situation that they have to sell to complete the purchases they want - i.e. finance is an issue. Far from the golden age promised by the spetics when they came in. I wonder if Sir Alex wanted to sign Barry, would he have to sell Carrick first? Is Liverpool's midfield so strong and invincibly fit that we can't facilitate a player of Xabi's undoubted ability? I mean we are shorn of a number of players for the styart of the season, and if we out Alonso and in Barry, we're getting rid of one quality midfielder with a full preseason, and bringing in a decent to good player who missed the majority of preseason becuase he wasn't professional enough to keep his mouth shut. Listen I think Barry is a good player, and can fill a number of positions, and great if Liverpool sign him - but with all the fuss and at the cost of Alonso? I'm not convinced. It's no mistake that Wenger wants him.

Metalman, Im no fan of the yanks but in fairness we've made the 3 most expensive signings in the history of the club since they took control - Torres, Keane & Mascherano. And when we buy Barry, it'll make it 4. Plus we've signed the most expensive defender in the club's history - Skrtel, & closely behind him in price is Dossena.

Yes the fuss about Barry has been embarrassing but we need to start pointing the finger at the likes of Rick Parry before blaming the yanks for this. And from what I hear, the yanks have agreed to "loan" Rafa the money to buy Barry based on future sales. Cant ask for more than that.

And Yes, we need to sell in order to buy, but that was always the situation. When the yanks took over, either the wool was pulled over our eyes in relation to the finances or else we were too gullible & believed they were the knights in shining armour we needed to compete with utd & chelsea. But bottomline is that we are now a club hugely in debt and until we get the new stadium built and get a huge increase in gate receipts, or else get somebody like abramovich to take over, then we'll never be in a position to financially compete with utd or chelsea. And after rafa finishes selling the deadwood this summer, it's going to be extremely difficult to raise funds for big name signings in the future. I think Rafa knows he needs to deliver this season and is going for broke. Lets just hope it pays off.

By the way, regarding the Alonso situation my preference is to hold him if possible and put him in a midfield three along with Barry & Mascherano. If we have to sell him, then fair enough but it has to be back to spain - no way should we sell him to link up with fabregas in arsenal.

[Mentalman]

I didn't say it was, but it seems since their takeover, other than signing Torres, very little has gone right - perhaps that's coincidence. Right now Liverpool are in the situation that they have to sell to complete the purchases they want - i.e. finance is an issue. Far from the golden age promised by the spetics when they came in. I wonder if Sir Alex wanted to sign Barry, would he have to sell Carrick first? Is Liverpool's midfield so strong and invincibly fit that we can't facilitate a player of Xabi's undoubted ability? I mean we are shorn of a number of players for the styart of the season, and if we out Alonso and in Barry, we're getting rid of one quality midfielder with a full preseason, and bringing in a decent to good player who missed the majority of preseason becuase he wasn't professional enough to keep his mouth shut. Listen I think Barry is a good player, and can fill a number of positions, and great if Liverpool sign him - but with all the fuss and at the cost of Alonso? I'm not convinced. It's no mistake that Wenger wants him.

Metalman, Im no fan of the yanks but in fairness we've made the 3 most expensive signings in the history of the club since they took control - Torres, Keane & Mascherano. And when we buy Barry, it'll make it 4. Plus we've signed the most expensive defender in the club's history - Skrtel, & closely behind him in price is Dossena.

Yes the fuss about Barry has been embarrassing but we need to start pointing the finger at the likes of Rick Parry before blaming the yanks for this. And from what I hear, the yanks have agreed to "loan" Rafa the money to buy Barry based on future sales. Cant ask for more than that.

And Yes, we need to sell in order to buy, but that was always the situation. When the yanks took over, either the wool was pulled over our eyes in relation to the finances or else we were too gullible & believed they were the knights in shining armour we needed to compete with utd & chelsea. But bottomline is that we are now a club hugely in debt and until we get the new stadium built and get a huge increase in gate receipts, or else get somebody like abramovich to take over, then we'll never be in a position to financially compete with utd or chelsea. And after rafa finishes selling the deadwood this summer, it's going to be extremely difficult to raise funds for big name signings in the future. I think Rafa knows he needs to deliver this season and is going for broke. Lets just hope it pays off.

By the way, regarding the Alonso situation my preference is to hold him if possible and put him in a midfield three along with Barry & Mascherano. If we have to sell him, then fair enough but it has to be back to spain - no way should we sell him to link up with fabregas in arsenal.

All good points Stevo, taken on board. I think though the record signings of defenders is more a product of how low the previous records were, the prices paid for Skrtlel & Dossena are more indicative of the current market. You're probably right about the Yanks, but we seem to have suffered one embarrasement after another - be it the stadium fiasco, talking to Klinsman behind Rafa's back, the public bickering between the partners or the apparent unwillingness to back Rafa in the transfer market in Janurary - under their tenure. You are correct about Torres, Mascher and Keane, but we have to be honest with ourselves, Liverpool need to make about 3 big signings over the next 2 or 3 seasons to have any hope of getting closer to a league title, otherwise the club are just threading water and fighting with Spurs or Everton for fourth. If the yanks can't facilitate that, then I wish they would agree a price with DIC and make room for someone who will. A lot of frustration here on my behalf

[Hound]

Personally I think the Yanks have taken a whole heap of unwarranted stick from fans. The only thing they did wrong was admit to meeting Klinsmann. Anyone who thinks the Arabs will be any better is in dreamland.

Unless you've got a headcase like Abramovich, any investor is going to be in it to make profits, whether it be Hicks, Gillet,  Glazier, Lerner, DIC. There will be no unlimited budgets - every transfer will have to make sense and there will have to be incomings as well out outgoings. And even Abramovich hasn't "given" Chelsea a cent - everything has gone in as an interest-free loan in the Balance Sheet of Chelsea. Nobody knows whether at the end of the day he'll look for payment or forgive it and write it off (though at the very least there's no big interest to pay like the mancs and Liverpool).

[isourboydownyet]

By Ian Herbert
Monday, 4 August 2008

Gareth Barry is likely to complete his £18m move from Aston Villa to Liverpool this week


Liverpool will secure Gareth Barry's signature this week, following the concession of defeat by the Aston Villa manager, Martin O'Neill, in his summer-long battle to persuade the midfielder to stay.


Liverpool's manager, Rafael Benitez, is keen to wrap up an £18m cash deal – the valuation Villa have always placed on the player – as quickly as possible. He may have the England international at his disposal within 72 hours, provided there are no hitches with the cash advance which Liverpool's owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, are understood to have agreed to make.

Benitez had been told that he had to sell to buy and the chances of securing Barry's services seemed to have receded with the £19m purchase of the striker Robbie Keane from Tottenham Hotspur last week. But Hicks and Gillett are understood to have provided the £18m needed to buy Barry ahead of possible further sales, and may be willing to write off any shortfall remaining after the transfer window closes.

Liverpool's major hope of helping to recoup the full sum receded further yesterday, however, when the Juventus manager, Claudio Ranieri, said after a 3-0 defeat to Hamburg in London that he was no longer considering a move for Xabi Alonso. The Italian club had never tabled a firm offer for the Spain midfielder.

Benitez can still hope that Jermaine Pennant will bring in £4m, should Blackburn Rovers develop their known interest in the winger. Andrei Voronin could bring in £6m and Steve Finnan £2m. Alvaro Arbeloa's departure has also been anticipated, though Benitez last week dismissed suggestions that the Spaniard might be unhappy at the club.

Liverpool remained hopeful of signing Barry after the drama of last Wednesday, when Villa made an unexpected declaration that the England player was to stay, minutes after the conclusion of a deadline they had imposed. Liverpool made no progress on the matter on Friday but Barry had actually persuaded O'Neill to give up on his services on Thursday morning. O'Neill, who has never been short of public proclamations on the issue, revealed as much after Villa's 1-1 draw at Reading in a friendly on Saturday.

O'Neill said that Barry and his agent, Alex Black, had felt that Liverpool could still do the deal. The Villa manager had hoped a £60,000-a-week offer might tempt the midfielder to stay.

"I was obviously very disappointed that that was still part of the scenario going forward," O'Neill said. "I gave it some thought and realised that at the end of it all there was little point in pretending. Gareth would want to join Liverpool and therefore there would be no deadline.

"I have agreed with Gareth now that Liverpool have got all the time in the world if they want to raise the money. That's the case. That's it. The ball is firmly in Liverpool's court, that's fine, not a problem."

For a manager who has railed against Liverpool and Benitez all summer, such a change of course and tone is surprising. But O'Neill can show that his club have earned every penny they were demanding for Barry, with a considerable amount payable immediately. It is understood Liverpool have accepted Villa's demand that the £18m be delivered in two instalments.

At Liverpool, Hicks' role in the move provides the biggest boost to his reputation since he arrived at the club in February 2007. Though the biggest concern at Anfield has always been the two American owners' capacity to get a new stadium built, two top-bracket signings and Saturday's 4-0 friendly win at Rangers provide a sense at last that the club is moving forward.

did yous all miss that comment

[Mentalman]

Personally I think the Yanks have taken a whole heap of unwarranted stick from fans. The only thing they did wrong was admit to meeting Klinsmann. Anyone who thinks the Arabs will be any better is in dreamland.

Unless you've got a headcase like Abramovich, any investor is going to be in it to make profits, whether it be Hicks, Gillet,  Glazier, Lerner, DIC. There will be no unlimited budgets - every transfer will have to make sense and there will have to be incomings as well out outgoings. And even Abramovich hasn't "given" Chelsea a cent - everything has gone in as an interest-free loan in the Balance Sheet of Chelsea. Nobody knows whether at the end of the day he'll look for payment or forgive it and write it off (though at the very least there's no big interest to pay like the mancs and Liverpool).

I don't know about dreamland, but it's patently obvious that our pair of septics have got in over their head, or at least have extended themselves beyond what they hoped too. The combination of the reality of costs in the premier league, the credit crunch, and their inability to work together means they are in no position to bring the club forward. Agreed everyone is in it too make money, but there are those willing or able to speculate to accumulate, and those who are only waiting to sell on at a profit, one step above asset stripping if things go wrong. It's obvious our guys are now firmly in that category, and if a suitable margin could have been garnered from DIC last year they would be gone already. In my opinion they have handled things very badly in the media, obviously not understanding the tradition of a club like Liverpool, where generally things are handled in house and out of glare of the cameras. Personally I would be amazed if the new stadium happens at all under their ownership, at best it won't be completed while they are there. Granted there are only a limited number of entities capable of investing in a club of Liverpool's size and attempting to resotre it to past glories, but these guys are not them IMHO - I hope to be proved wrong.

[GalwayBayBoy]

By Ian Herbert
Monday, 4 August 2008

Gareth Barry is likely to complete his £18m move from Aston Villa to Liverpool this week


Liverpool will secure Gareth Barry's signature this week, following the concession of defeat by the Aston Villa manager, Martin O'Neill, in his summer-long battle to persuade the midfielder to stay.


Liverpool's manager, Rafael Benitez, is keen to wrap up an £18m cash deal – the valuation Villa have always placed on the player – as quickly as possible. He may have the England international at his disposal within 72 hours, provided there are no hitches with the cash advance which Liverpool's owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, are understood to have agreed to make.

Benitez had been told that he had to sell to buy and the chances of securing Barry's services seemed to have receded with the £19m purchase of the striker Robbie Keane from Tottenham Hotspur last week. But Hicks and Gillett are understood to have provided the £18m needed to buy Barry ahead of possible further sales, and may be willing to write off any shortfall remaining after the transfer window closes.

Liverpool's major hope of helping to recoup the full sum receded further yesterday, however, when the Juventus manager, Claudio Ranieri, said after a 3-0 defeat to Hamburg in London that he was no longer considering a move for Xabi Alonso. The Italian club had never tabled a firm offer for the Spain midfielder.

Benitez can still hope that Jermaine Pennant will bring in £4m, should Blackburn Rovers develop their known interest in the winger. Andrei Voronin could bring in £6m and Steve Finnan £2m. Alvaro Arbeloa's departure has also been anticipated, though Benitez last week dismissed suggestions that the Spaniard might be unhappy at the club.

Liverpool remained hopeful of signing Barry after the drama of last Wednesday, when Villa made an unexpected declaration that the England player was to stay, minutes after the conclusion of a deadline they had imposed. Liverpool made no progress on the matter on Friday but Barry had actually persuaded O'Neill to give up on his services on Thursday morning. O'Neill, who has never been short of public proclamations on the issue, revealed as much after Villa's 1-1 draw at Reading in a friendly on Saturday.

O'Neill said that Barry and his agent, Alex Black, had felt that Liverpool could still do the deal. The Villa manager had hoped a £60,000-a-week offer might tempt the midfielder to stay.

"I was obviously very disappointed that that was still part of the scenario going forward," O'Neill said. "I gave it some thought and realised that at the end of it all there was little point in pretending. Gareth would want to join Liverpool and therefore there would be no deadline.

"I have agreed with Gareth now that Liverpool have got all the time in the world if they want to raise the money. That's the case. That's it. The ball is firmly in Liverpool's court, that's fine, not a problem."

For a manager who has railed against Liverpool and Benitez all summer, such a change of course and tone is surprising. But O'Neill can show that his club have earned every penny they were demanding for Barry, with a considerable amount payable immediately. It is understood Liverpool have accepted Villa's demand that the £18m be delivered in two instalments.

At Liverpool, Hicks' role in the move provides the biggest boost to his reputation since he arrived at the club in February 2007. Though the biggest concern at Anfield has always been the two American owners' capacity to get a new stadium built, two top-bracket signings and Saturday's 4-0 friendly win at Rangers provide a sense at last that the club is moving forward.

did yous all miss that comment

Apparently Voronin is still highly thought of in Germany where he did well for Leverkusen. Must be the 1980's metal haircut he has.

[Chrisowc]

I think there are a few German clubs interested.  But sure Saxon are popular there too!

You've been rumbled Galwaybayboy

Get your own material

[Mentalman]

Would be amazed if he garnered 6 million. I'd volunteer to drive the hoor to any club willing to part with 2 or 3 million! Or even reimburse me the diesel money!

[GalwayBayBoy]

I think there are a few German clubs interested.  But sure Saxon are popular there too!

You've been rumbled Galwaybayboy

Get your own material

I was more of a Scorpions man myself.

[Hound]

Team tonight:

Cavalieri
Arbeloa, Carra, Agger, Dossena
Kuyt, Gerrard, Alonso, Benayoun
Torres, Keane.

Subs: Reina, Plessis, Darby, Nemeth, Pacheco, Spearing, El Zhar, Insua, Ngog, Hyypia.

Its on channel 434 on the Sky system. Any pub with Setanta should have it. Kick off at 6pm

[gawa316]

Team tonight:

Cavalieri
Arbeloa, Carra, Agger, Dossena
Kuyt, Gerrard, Alonso, Benayoun
Torres, Keane.

Subs: Reina, Plessis, Darby, Nemeth, Pacheco, Spearing, El Zhar, Insua, Ngog, Hyypia.

Its on channel 434 on the Sky system. Any pub with Setanta should have it. Kick off at 6pm

We've been playing a lot of 442 in preseason but i don't think we really have the personal to play this formation. I liked the look of the 4231 formation we played in the second half of last season, maybe we'll switch back to it when the lads return from the olympics

[stevo-08]

Team tonight:

Cavalieri
Arbeloa, Carra, Agger, Dossena
Kuyt, Gerrard, Alonso, Benayoun
Torres, Keane.

Subs: Reina, Plessis, Darby, Nemeth, Pacheco, Spearing, El Zhar, Insua, Ngog, Hyypia.

Its on channel 434 on the Sky system. Any pub with Setanta should have it. Kick off at 6pm

that team & subs list certainly seems to confirm that finnan, pennant & voronin are all on their way out.