Mayo Club Football.

Started by intoDwest, November 10, 2006, 11:34:39 AM

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StoneWall

Can some one explain the advantages of these changes to me? They seem to be changing for changes sake and to be seen to do something. There are still 9 league games to be played by each club and some will end up with 11 with semi-finals and final. It only reduces the amount of league games by 2 each year. The problems still exist of county players holding up club games while Mayo is still involved in the championship. To be realistic the chances are that Mayo will reach the Quarter-Finals most years and therefore have football until at least August. That's the crux in all this and that should be the starting point in any solution.

I really can't see what has changed all that much, maybe some teams get to play teams they haven't played before but that isn't a strong enough reason to change. Also if they are going to change the structures of the leagues should the criteria be laid down at the start of the current league so that the teams know what they have to achieve to be placed in a certain division next year?

Also I'd like to know when and where this draw took place. For openness and transparency it should take place at a county board meeting with all delegates present. We have seen from the Mickey Moran saga that integrity isn't one of the current officer's strong points!

AbbeySider

Quote from: Owenmoresider
But, say they don't change it year-on-year, ye'll never face the likes of Ballina, Ballagh, Charlestown or Knockmore, barring the semis.

They will be changing the teams in 1A and 1B etc every year, Otherwise Crossmolina would hardly ever be playing Shrule, Ballina or Knockmore!. Its just the way the draw fell this year.

There will be an open draw at the start of the year for the group stages so the chances are that the 'big teams' will be meeting next year if not this year in the league (they still meet in the championship anyway remember and will should be meeting in the league semis).

AFAIK two teams will be relegated from divisions 1A and 1B and two will be promoted from 2A and 2B.

Games are starting on St Patricks weekend where two league games will be played and there will be a league game every weekend thereafter including two games on the weekend of a bank holiday.

That will finish most of the league games in late April / early May with the playoff dates TBC

Local cups like the Kelly Cup and Centenary Cup and North Mayo Cup etc will be played in the following months.

I dont know the dates for club championships yet.

Quote from: StoneWall
The problems still exist of county players holding up club games while Mayo is still involved in the championship.

No they dont, Mayo's first game is against Galway on the 20-MAY-07 so the 9 preliminary league games will be finished by then.

The Connaught Semi final is on the 24-JULY-07 so the league finals will be played somewhere between the 20th of May and the 24th of July.

magpie seanie

QuoteThe Connaught Semi final is on the 24-JULY-07 so the league finals will be played somewhere between the 20th of May and the 24th of July.

Unless the qualifiers put a spanner in the works.  ;)

venter

Well said Seanie! It will be a miracle if the league is completed according to that timeline Abbeysider, although it should improve things. Any of the knockmore or Cross people remember what date the league final trilogy was completed a few years back?

Owenmoresider

Quote from: venter on January 17, 2007, 11:23:04 AM
Well said Seanie! It will be a miracle if the league is completed according to that timeline Abbeysider, although it should improve things. Any of the knockmore or Cross people remember what date the league final trilogy was completed a few years back?
Any of the knockmore or Cross people remember what date the league final trilogy was completed a few years back?

From the Western archives:

Tuesday, December 30, 2003 :

Munnelly is the man for Knockmore

Knockmore 1-11, Crossmolina 2-7

It was a fitting end to an epic battle – a goal with the last kick of the game. And so the destination of this year's league cup was finally decided – by Damian Munnelly – at James Stephens Park, Ballina, last Sunday week.
After nearly four and a half hours of end-to-end football, it seemed as if the ending would be tame. With the final ten minutes of extra time completed, there was still no score in the period and the concluding act of this protracted production looked destined to end scoreless, with Crossmolina winning by the one-point advantage they had had at the interval.
But two minutes into injury time Michael Moyles augmented that lead with a superb point from the left, after the defending champions had broken up a Knockmore attack and worked the ball expertly upfield. It would have been a worthy finish to this contest. But it wasn't.
One last, frantic Knockmore effort resulted in a free on the left wing, which Kevin O'Neill stepped up to take. It would be their last chance and they knew it, pouring forward in hope of making a connection with what would surely be a dropping ball.
Crossmolina were alert to the danger too, and formed a human wall in front of goal. But O'Neill's ball was flicked on to Munnelly, who made light of the goalmouth congestion to strike sweetly – and remarkably without deflection – to the back of the net.
The place erupted. Crossmolina faces fell, Knockmore ones smiled broadly. This league meant a lot and that meaning manifested itself in the form of jubilant screaming, jumping and singing at the final whistle.
The game itself hadn't been notbale for its brilliance. Knockmore were, on balance, slightly better, largely because of the accuracy of Kevin O'Neill, who hit nine points, and the overall excellence of Declan Sweeney, who roamed all over the field, though primarily operating at full-back.
Two O'Neill frees put the winners ahead after 16 minutes, but Crossmolina then enjoyed a ten-minute period of dominance, during which they scored 1-3, the goal coming in the 25th minute from Johnny Leonard, following points by Liam Moffatt (two frees) and Joe Keane. Knockmore regained their composure in the final few minutes and had sufficent chances to draw level, but only took half of them, both O'Neill frees, to leave them trailing by 0-4 to 1-3 at the first break.
Knockmore had the upperhand for much of the second half, an early point from Shane Sweeney – their first non-O'Neill score of the game – narrowing the gap to one. Moffatt countered with a pointed free (and hobbled off injured after striking it) two minutes later.
Minutes later an off-the-ball incident in the middle of the field between Kevin Staunton and Gabriel Walsh resulted in both men being issued with red cards by referee, Vinnie Neary.
O'Neill and Brian Benson exchanged points in the 39th and 43rd minutes, before O'Neill hit three on the trot – one fine point from play – to give Knockmore the lead with seven minutes remaining.
Just when it looked – for the umpteenth time – as if the title was decided, yet another saviour emerged to prolong matters. This time it was Michael Moyles, who curled over a lovely point from the left wing, with one minute of injury time played. Shane Sweeney had a glorious chance to win it for Knockmore a minute later, but his shot drifted well wide of the posts.
Extra time once more, and yet more twists.
Again, Knockmore did the early running and were two points up after two minutes, courtesy of Damian Munnelly and O'Neill points. They looked to have a distinct edge at this stage and one more score might have put it beyond Crossmolina's reach. But they couldn't get another and a minute before the break a Brian Benson shot into the goalmouth was tipped to the back of Pat Reape's net by Leonard to give Crossmolina a – slightly undeserved – lead.
The final period of the game was punctuated by two moments, two scores. The first was Moyles' point deep into injury time and the second – even deeper into time added on – was Munnelly's classy goal.
If ever it were true that there is nothing between two teams, it is surely true in this case, as three epic contests indicate.

Scorers
Knockmore: K. O'Neill 0-9 (0-8f), D. Munnelly 1-1, Shane Sweeney 0-1.
Crossmolina: J. Leonard 2-0, L. Moffatt 0-3 (0-3f), M. Moyles 0-2, J. Keane and B. Benson 0-1 each.
Knockmore: P. Reape; J. Coy, D. Sweeney, J. Brogan; G. O'Hora, A. Higgins, P. Munnelly; K. Staunton, Stephen Sweeney; D. Keane, K. O'Neill, Shane Sweeney; C. Rowland, P. Cawley, D. Munnelly. Subs used: D. Dempsey, T. Howley, A. Kilcoyne.
Crossmolina: B. Heffernan; S. Rochford, D. Mulligan, F. Costello; P. Gardiner, H. McLoughlin, D. Keating; J. Nallen, G. Walsh; N. Convey, M. Moyles, P. McGuinness; L. Moffatt, J. Keane, J. Leonard. Subs: J. Fergus, G. O'Malley, M. Loftus, D. Hegarty, B. Benson.
Referee: V. Neary (Bonniconlon). 

And the report from the first drawn game:

Wednesday, November 26, 2003 :

GAA: Stalemate prevails after game of twists and turns   


Welcome Inn Hotel Mayo G.A.a. League Division One Final
Crossmolina 1-18, Knockmore 3-12

THE proven gladiators of Mayo senior football since the mid-nineties, Crossmolina and Knockmore, were deadlocked at the top of the points table after the completion of the twelve rounds of Division One of the Welcome Inn League, and last Sunday at James Stephens Park, Ballina, in a play-off to decide the league champions, Crossmolina and Knockmore again finished all square, after a period extra time.
The replay will take place at the same venue next Sunday and, while the result will almost certainly remain in doubt until the final seconds, the attendance will be well over the1,000 mark for the second part of the two-part thriller.
Knockmore will be without centre-back Peter Clarke for the replay, as he was booked on a flight
to Australia yesterday (Monday).
The commitment, excitement and thrills that have highlighted the many summer championship battles between those two great rivals over the past seven years were very much in evidence in the third week of November, and it would have been an injustice to the wholeheartedness displayed by both sides had there been a loser last Sunday.
There was no shortage of controversy either, particularly surrounding one Crossmolina score five minutes from the end of the original game, when Liam Moffatt was credited with a point that was to rescue the Deelsiders and extend the drama by a further twenty minutes.
Everybody else at the game believed the ball had gone wide by at least twelve inches but the umpires were in no doubt and raised the white flag to tie the game for an eighth time.
The great rivals were deadlocked on two further occasions in the extra time period, including an O'Neill leveling point two minutes into stoppage time of the second period of extra time.
Three minutes into the second period of extra time, Crossmolina appeared to have one hand on the cup following a Johnny Leonard goal to extend the Deel Rovers advantage to five points.
But, incredibly, Knockmore found the confidence and the energy in those remaining dramatic minutes of extra time to delay the drawing of the curtain to the 2003 Mayo football season for another seven days at least.

Mighty effort

But having succeeded in keeping their league hopes breathing, it took an almighty effort from players such as Kevin Staunton, Shane Sweeney, Declan Sweeney, Kevin O'Neill, John Brogan and Stephen Sweeney to see them survive.
Crossmolina looked the part in the opening twenty minutes, their sweeping play causing all kinds of problems for the Knockmore defence.
Michael Moyles, Joe Keane, Paul McGuinness and Liam Moffatt were constant nightmares in the Knockmore defence and goals should have been scored on at least two occasions in the first quarter.
Stephen Rochford, Francis Costello, and Peadar Gardiner were equally solid in the Crossmolina defence to limit their opponents to just two points from frees by Kevin O'Neill until near the end of the first period.
Indeed, Knockmore had to wait until the 27th minute for their first score from play, a goal by Damien Munnelly to pull back a 0-7 to 0-2 deficit to two points.
The goal opportunity developed when a fine delivery by Shane Sweeney was deflected to the net by Munnelly, who outjumped goalkeeper Barry Heffernan to
connect with the ball.
That goal was the spur Knockmore needed to raise their game and, after trailing 0-7 to 1-3 at the interval, by the 33rd minute had taken a 1-5 to 0-7 advantage.
From then on the game developed into a titanic struggle, the advantage changing from side to side.

Penalty

An opportunity for Crossmolina to pull clear by three points developed early in the second half when they were awarded
a penalty. However,
Moffatt's attempt flew over the bar.
Michael Moyles, who turned in a tremendous game, had eased Crossmolina two points clear when the game took another twist with Knockmore's second goal from substitute Cormac
Rowland, from a move involving Staunton and Shane Sweeney.
Four minutes later Knockmore looked sure to hammer in another goal when Damien Munnelly was fed a great ball by Paul Munnelly in behind the Deel Rovers defence. However, Barry Heffernan was off his line to unbalance the Knockmore
corner forward who sent his goal attempt wide of the empty net.
The introduction of Johnny Leonard and Brian Benson to the Crossmolina attack after forty-five minutes was significant as both went on to play vital roles. Benson was only in the action less than 90 seconds when he restored a one-point lead for the Deel Rovers. The Crossmolina teenager also set up Paul McGuinness for another point to leave the Deel Rovers 0-17 to 2-10 ahead at the end of the first period of additional time.
The tempo of the game increased considerably midway in the second half with points being exchanged by O'Neill, Munnelly, Moffatt and Joe Keane to leave Knockmore 2-9 to 0-14 ahead with five minutes remaining.
Then came that controversial Liam Moffatt score to force the period of extra time.
Seconds from the end, though, Crossmolina heartbeats thumped loudly when Kevin O'Neill floated a 45 metre free into the goalmouth, but James Nallen managed to deflect the ball onto the crossbar and eventually it was scrambled clear.
Crossmolina led by 0-17 to 2-10 at the end of the first ten-minute period of extra time and when
Moffatt increased the lead to two points on the restart and then extended it to five points following Johnny Leonard's fisted goal from a Noel Convey centre, the issue looked resolved.
A Gerard Higgins point from play and a goal by O'Neill from a penalty after Munnelly was grounded, set up the final seconds for a grandstand finish.
Two minutes of stoppage time had elapsed when Knockmore were awarded a close-in free from which O'Neill made no mistake in guaranteeing another epic next
Sunday.

Scorers
Crossmolina: Liam Moffatt and Michael Moyles 0-4 each, Johnny Leonard 1-0, Joe Keane and Noel Convey 0-3 each, Paul McGuinness 0-2, James Fergus and Brian Benson 0-1 each.
Knockmore: Kevin O'Neill 1-9, Damien Munnelly1-2, Cormac Rowland 1-0, Ger Higgins 0-1.
Crossmolina: B. Heffernan; S. Rochford, K. O'Boyle, F. Costello; P. Gardiner, H. McLoughlin, D. Keating; J. Nallen, G. Walsh; N. Convey, M. Moyles P. McGuinness; L. Moffatt, J. Keane, J. Fergus. Subs used: J. Leonard, B. Benson.
Knockmore: P. Reape; J. Coy, D. Sweeney, J. Brogan; A. Higgins, P. Clarke, K. Langan; K. Staunton, Stephen Sweeney; G. O'Hora, K. O'Neill, Shane Sweeney; A. Butler, P. Cawley, D. Munnelly. Subs used: Paul Munnelly, Aiden Kilcoyne, Cormac Rowland, G. Higgins.
Referee: V. Neary (Bonniconlon).

Can't get a report on the replay, that site is hit and miss with numerous editions missing.

StoneWall

So Abbeysider you think it's a good idea that the majority of club players go from May 20th without having a league game all summer? They will have 3 championship games spread out over 3 months. Fair enough the divisional competitions will be played but again players and clubs aren't too worried about these! I can see what other summer sport most players will take up over the summer in Mayo!

As for having to play 2 league games on a Bank holiday weekend it's just ridiculous, that's what will turn players away from the game. Any club that's anyway serious will expect their players to stay on the dry for the entire weekend, not very fair to the average club player. Also it is a recipe for injuries having 2 games in three days!

venter

Fair play to ya Owenmoresider. O Neill was putting up big scores. Remembering back now, some of the points he was scoring were unreal. The western is a bit chaotic with its archives alright!

AbbeySider

Quote from: StoneWall on January 17, 2007, 01:37:51 PM
So Abbeysider you think it's a good idea that the majority of club players go from May 20th without having a league game all summer? They will have 3 championship games spread out over 3 months. Fair enough the divisional competitions will be played but again players and clubs aren't too worried about these! I can see what other summer sport most players will take up over the summer in Mayo!

As for having to play 2 league games on a Bank holiday weekend it's just ridiculous, that's what will turn players away from the game. Any club that's anyway serious will expect their players to stay on the dry for the entire weekend, not very fair to the average club player. Also it is a recipe for injuries having 2 games in three days!


Valid points but at this stage we are all just speculating... I think the county board meeting is next week so the all the details of the proposals will be divulged then. Im not sure about having two games on a bank holiday weekend but its something that I heard mentioned. Im just going by what I have read and heard so dont take it as gospel.

The league may well run into May/June. It remains to be seen.

Im surprised the Western People have not got this covered... (in the online version anyway)


Farrandeelin

Well done OMS as right, it brought a smile back to my face reading those reports. The scrap in extra-time on the third day added extra spice to it as well. They were all great games of football as well for the middle of winter.
Inaugural Football Championship Prediction Winner.

RedandGreenSniper

#144
The proposals as they stand are ridiculous. The only reason they will go through is because the majority of clubs will think they will 'benifit' from them, that is that most clubs will be promoted or, at worst, stay in the same division.

Why the need for 20 teams in Division 1? Is it to get Ballintubber into Division 1? (after all it's a Ballintubber proposal). Why the need for this change besides, after all it is only two less games essentially, and none for those who get to league finals.

The more teams in a division the more the capacity for a mis match. At least this year you had a possibility of the bottom teams coming close to the top. Can you imagine Kilmeena coming within an asses roar of Ballina? Me neither.

The thought of all league games being over by May is shameful. That's not solving anything. I don't care what fancy ribbons you try to put on it but the O'Mara Cup and the Kelly Cup will never be taken seriously.

One of the major objections to the initial task force proposal (and they were right to throw it out because of lack of relegation/promotion) was that players will be lost to soccer. Do you really think a guy playing both sports is going to have to think twice about choosing between an important soccer league game or a Kelly Cup game where half the players will be hungover?

I'm very worried that something like this will go through because of the self interest of clubs but, God above, this is no improvement.
Mayo for Sam! Just don't ask me for a year

AbbeySider

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on January 18, 2007, 12:28:37 PM
Why the need for 20 teams in Division 1? Is it to get Ballintubber into Division 1? (after all it's a Ballintubber proposal).

Thats a bit fuckin harsh RedandGreenSniper.

The proposals were put forward to try and solve the problems we had this year; having games running into December with hardly any break for the winter. Not being able to use county players etc

Everyone was complaining and lots of clubs put forward proposals; not just Ballintubber.

And besides that in Ballintubbers original proposal the two division 1 league groups were seeded and there was an even amount of strong and weak oppositions in each group but instead the county board chose to have a open draw. So the county board may have adapted the concept but left out other ideas put forward in the proposal.

Before ya go and fuckin insulting us and insinuating that Ballintubber put forward the proposals to play in a senior league think again.

Why dont you enlighten us your proposals?

QuoteCan you imagine Kilmeena coming within an asses roar of Ballina? Me neither.

Thats why there will be relegations from each group


QuoteThe thought of all league games being over by May is shameful

Chances are it wont and could run on a lot longer.

RedandGreenSniper

OK Abbeysider maybe my conspiracy theory is harsh. Fair play for being one of the clubs who came in with a proposal. Personally if I was to back a proposal it would be the one Kevin O'Toole outlined. Now flaws can be found with this too.
I think the major problem with your club's proposal is simply that it doesn't do anything that couldn't have been re done in the current scheme. It would be as easy to use the current system, start early, play the divisional competitions in the summer and be finished earlier this year. Lets remember last year was exceptional in the sense that the U21 run held back a couple of rounds as did the run to the AI final.
You make the point about relegation sorting this out. I'd argue that the team coming up could often be as weak as that promoted and still struggle. The closer you have teams grouped together, the more competitive leagues will be. I can envisage a lot of hammerings in this format . . .
Mayo for Sam! Just don't ask me for a year

StoneWall

I have to agree with RedandGreensniper that I cannot see the major advantages of this proposal. The main complaints from clubs this year were:

No football over the summer.
Having county players not available for league games.
The season dragging on forever.

What happens if the U-21s have another good run this year? Are there any contingency plans in place? With Mayo playing Galway on May 20th I can't see there being any league games for at least 2 weekends beforehand. Knowing John O'Mahony's record with regard to clubs in Galway then I honestly see very little club football being played over the summer!

Also with regard to the proposal coming for Ballintubber I was also a little suspicious at first about where this was coming from considering that the have at least 2 (if not 3?) county board officers! But having heard the source it came from within the club I have to say that it is from a very genuine GAA person.

AbbeySider

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on January 18, 2007, 01:04:54 PM
OK Abbeysider maybe my conspiracy theory is harsh. Fair play for being one of the clubs who came in with a proposal.
I can envisage a lot of hammerings in this format . . .

I wouldnt be so sure that there would be a lot of hammerings although there could be a few.

Crossmolina should walk Division 1A but thats just the way the draw happened. In that division there is not a whole lot between
Kiltane, Moy Davitts, Belmullet, Westport, Ballinrobe, Tourmakeady, Davitts, Ballintubber and Louisburgh. So they should make for some really competitive games.

But I would say ourselves and Louisburgh and Ballinrobe could be amoung the weaker teams in the division but 2 teams but it remains to be seen.

Division 1B: has some very competitive games too with Shrule/Glencorrib, Ballina, Claremorris, Castlebar, Breaffy, Ballaghadereen, Knockmore, Charlestown. Again the bottom of the table we could see Kilmeena and perhaps Burrishoole.

I think that the league will be more competitive in the fact that a lot of teams that are there abouts will raise their game. The weaker teams will be busting a gut and out to prove themselves.

If you look at the broader picture it should improve the quality of football in Mayo as a whole as teams can only improve from playing the likes of Crossmilina and Ballina and upping their game.

I dont think I will be posting anymore on this topic because their is valid arguments for and against. I was furious with your statements in your last post which was totally unfair.

Something drastic had to be done to the league and time will tell if it will be a flop or not. I dont think it will be.

I dont feel like I should be defending the proposal either, its completely down to the delegates at the end of the day. I just want whats best for everyone.

RedandGreenSniper

Ok, it will give teams a chance to play the top teams but that facility was already in place. Come in the top 2 in Division 2 and you were promoted to the big boys. We shouldn't make it too easy to get into the top division either.

Teams will only be getting into their stride when the league will be over under this proposal so while they may try to bust a gut, it won't fit into the natural approach to their season which is to be playing their best football from May to August.

Agreed, you don't have to defend the proposal but your club has submitted it and you seem to know a lot about it so its only right that you respond to criticisms. I don't agree with it and the biggest problem I have is that it will go through not because clubs see it as the best way forward, but because of self interest they will vote for because it will bring their club up rather than down.

I know that's whats going to happen with my club.

I appreciate you're only doing what you think is best and I probably jumped the gun a bit with the Ballintubber conspiracy for what its worth. Most of us want the same thing, just have different ideas of how to get there . . .
Mayo for Sam! Just don't ask me for a year