Is this the end of 7's competitions

Maximus Marillius · October 26, 2007, 11:28:17 AM

After reading the possible suspensions handed out to Moy and Kilcoo from their participation in the Castlewellan 7's, will clubs now give serious consideration to whether they will play in these tournaments. Our own club has been very successful at sevens over the years having won the Kilmacud All Ieland 7's twice and the Castlewellan 7's twice, plus numerous finals in both competitions. But what has been very noticably in the past ten years has been the declinbe in the quality of the teams (which in itself is not so important) but more importantly the level of officiating at these compos has definately significantly declined. If the standard of referring at these compos continue and as a result of the suspensions given by the Ulster council surely clubs who have serious aspirations about winning championships will probably give them a miss, resulting in reducing in the credability of the competition?

Jinxy · October 26, 2007, 12:22:17 PM

Sure only the Ulster clubs take them seriously anyway.

Leo · October 26, 2007, 03:51:28 PM

The referee definitely didnt slag anyone about dog baiting or bank robbing and didnt hit anyone either.

Maximus Marillius · October 26, 2007, 08:17:14 PM

a retired ref just walked off the pitch.

Louth Exile · October 26, 2007, 10:48:56 PM

Quote from: Maximus Marillius on October 26, 2007, 11:28:17 AM
surely clubs who have serious aspirations about winning championships will probably give them a miss,

Is this the reason Belaghy didn't particpate in Kilmacud this year?

This year was the first time I was at Kilmacud myself and thought it was great, but I certainly got the feeling it wasn't taken seriously, in our group alone.
Belaghy - previous winners, no show
Wolfe Tones - won Meath for the first time last year, out of the championship in Meath at that stage already and their first chance to play in the sevens, no show
St Josephs (Louth) - a number of our lads didn't bother with it at all!! sent up a team that was far from definitely not our best ten

To answer your question Max, they certainly seem to have been devalued

Redhandfan · October 27, 2007, 10:11:25 PM

Quote from: Maximus Marillius on October 26, 2007, 11:28:17 AM
After reading the possible suspensions handed out to Moy and Kilcoo from their participation in the Castlewellan 7's, will clubs now give serious consideration to whether they will play in these tournaments. Our own club has been very successful at sevens over the years having won the Kilmacud All Ieland 7's twice and the Castlewellan 7's twice, plus numerous finals in both competitions. But what has been very noticably in the past ten years has been the declinbe in the quality of the teams (which in itself is not so important) but more importantly the level of officiating at these compos has definately significantly declined. If the standard of referring at these compos continue and as a result of the suspensions given by the Ulster council surely clubs who have serious aspirations about winning championships will probably give them a miss, resulting in reducing in the credability of the competition?

That's a fair point, Max. If Moy end up with any suspensions arising out of the Castlewellan Sevens, I doubt very much if we will ever go back to it. I have to admit that I didn't think it was possible for players to get suspended while taking part in these events. The Castlewellan tournament was seriously undermined this year by the standard of refereeing. For instance, allowing a retired Tyrone referee such as Dessie Slater to take charge of one of the quarter-finals was just plain stupid. He seemed to take great pleasure at calling the Moy v Kilcoo game to an early halt and is probably enjoying all the attention it now seems to have generated.

That said, I think the Kilmacud Sevens is still worth attending....it is very well organised and holds much more prestige than the Ulster version.

orangeman · October 27, 2007, 10:59:04 PM

Dessie Slater is definitely a bit old for refereeing such a fast moving game - We had a game abandoned this year because the referee had old scores with Dromore and Ardboe to settle. There are some referees out there ( only a few mind you ) who use their role to score points and settle scores as this is the only way they can. These individulas bring the game into disrepute and have disproprtionate infkuence on the association and should be booted into touch.

By the way - why are suspensions only being handed out now ? To me this seems illegal on the part of the Ulster council or whoever it is - justice delayed is no justice at all.

Redhandfan · October 27, 2007, 11:16:13 PM

Quote from: orangeman on October 27, 2007, 10:59:04 PM
By the way - why are suspensions only being handed out now ? To me this seems illegal on the part of the Ulster council or whoever it is - justice delayed is no justice at all.

It is over eight weeks since we took part in the Castlewellan Sevens and the Ulster Council has still not decided on what punishment to mete out to the clubs. I think it is a disgrace that they are even considering handing out any suspensions given the length of time involved and the fact that not one player was shown a red card during or after the match in question. A smiling Dessie Slater appeared to walk off the field that day without even noting the number of any player. If the Ulster Council do eventually decide to suspend any players, I would expect this to be appealed by the clubs and over-turned by higher authorities.

orangeman · October 27, 2007, 11:52:43 PM

I'd say the suspensions will be apealed and the appeals will most probably be upheld - how can you wait for 8 weeks to decide on suspensions to be given out ?

If it is not a secret, Redhandfan, what suspensions are they proposing to give out, to whom and for what ??

Maximus Marillius · October 29, 2007, 10:37:07 AM

Castlewellan surely have questions to answer in respect of this situation......for the sake of insurance were they adequately covered when using a retired ref, who has not went through the usual assessments that apply to refs.

Should Castlewellan be suspended for bringing the game into disrepute, after all they appointed a retired ref who has no official status regarding refereeing. We caanot even play an U14 game in Derry unless an official ref does it, we are told this is all to do with insurance

Was the game legal and within the rules if an unofficial ref refereed the game. The question surely has implictions for the subsequent suspensions. Another question, for example if the ref had sent a player off in that game would the ensuing suspension have stood....many questions.

clarshack · October 29, 2007, 12:25:59 PM

Quote from: Redhandfan on October 27, 2007, 11:16:13 PM
Quote from: orangeman on October 27, 2007, 10:59:04 PM
By the way - why are suspensions only being handed out now ? To me this seems illegal on the part of the Ulster council or whoever it is - justice delayed is no justice at all.

It is over eight weeks since we took part in the Castlewellan Sevens and the Ulster Council has still not decided on what punishment to mete out to the clubs. I think it is a disgrace that they are even considering handing out any suspensions given the length of time involved and the fact that not one player was shown a red card during or after the match in question. A smiling Dessie Slater appeared to walk off the field that day without even noting the number of any player. If the Ulster Council do eventually decide to suspend any players, I would expect this to be appealed by the clubs and over-turned by higher authorities.

sure the ulster council made a meal out of the stewartstown v ballymacnab suspensions and subsequent replay by dragging the whole thing out for about 10 weeks. there was a melee at a championship game in cavan this year and the whole thing was done and dusted that very same week.

orangeman · October 29, 2007, 12:58:26 PM

It sounds as if all suspensions will be rendered invalid by a good solicitor. Anybody got Fergal Logan's number ?

illdecide · October 29, 2007, 01:23:04 PM

i have played in both competions and we were all made aware that any sending off's were carried through to league and championship. It's an official tournament with intercounty refs, if you have a punch up in the 7's it's just the same as in a league game (so don't do it)

Drumanee 1 · October 29, 2007, 04:16:24 PM

Quote from: illdecide on October 29, 2007, 01:23:04 PM
i have played in both competions and we were all made aware that any sending off's were carried through to league and championship. It's an official tournament with intercounty refs, if you have a punch up in the 7's it's just the same as in a league game (so don't do it)

dont think thats really the argument,if a unofficial ref takes charge of a game where does that leave a player who is sent off,surely he can argue his case and theres bound to be some law that will through out the case.the overall standard of refs at the minute is pretty bad,in derry we have maybe 2 decent refs who by the way seem to be ignored when it comes to the big games,but getting back to the 7's,it is pretty obvious these competitions are losing there appeal to the bigger club teams as most are still involved in c'ship and dont want to risk injury and now as it appears getting suspendid,i can see them declining dramatically over the coming years just the way club tournaments have,with county football dictating when club matches are played it puts more focus on league and c'ship.