Would you be in favour of a second tier?

Started by sligoman2, June 26, 2017, 12:34:12 PM

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Would you be in favour of an alternative championship for Div 3 and 4 with winners and runners up rejoining the other championship.

Yes
136 (52.7%)
No
104 (40.3%)
Undecided
18 (7%)

Total Members Voted: 258

JoG2

Quote from: priceyreilly on October 21, 2018, 11:07:54 AM
Quote from: lenny on October 21, 2018, 08:34:14 AM
I totally disagree. At this moment in time a B competition is exactly where derry belong. I'd much rather see us playing in a B semifinal and final than being stuffed by tyrone, monaghan and donegal who are way better than us at the moment. There's no fun in going into games knowing a 10 point plus defeat is the inevitable outcome.

This is the kind of thinking that is prevalent in many discussions currently on our games. It's extremely short sighted and will have major effects on the strength of Gaelic Games in many counties. Yes Derry are struggling right now but it wasn't that long ago when they were at a much higher level. Throwing them into a b competition will not make it any easier to make a recovery. It will make it far harder!
Unless counties make a quick escape from the losers league, they will get trapped in mediocrity with no chance of breaking free. How do teams or individuals get better? They push themselves against superior opposition, learn from it, work harder and try to reach that superior level. In the losers league, that's going to be impossible. The counties in the A competition will push further ahead.
Added to this, the interest in the losers league will be minimal. Supporters won't attend these matches, players will drop off county panels, it will kill Gaelic Football in the counties who've been deemed an inconvenience to the elites.


This kind of thinking is prevalent and short sighted, and then you say counties need to learn and work harder?? La La land. The vast majority of counties haven't a snowballs chance in hell of winning Sam regardless of how hard they work or how much they learn. Keep the provencials and also have a tiered championship which will allow the minnows a snowballs chance

Rossfan

Leitrim should be winning All Irelands after 120 years of playing top teams in Connacht and big teams from other Provinces on the Qualifiers.
Or is it just money they need like the Dublin hurlers.

For the benefit of Northerners I'd better put in one of these ::)
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

BennyCake

Quote from: JoG2 on October 21, 2018, 11:21:25 AM
Quote from: priceyreilly on October 21, 2018, 11:07:54 AM
Quote from: lenny on October 21, 2018, 08:34:14 AM
I totally disagree. At this moment in time a B competition is exactly where derry belong. I'd much rather see us playing in a B semifinal and final than being stuffed by tyrone, monaghan and donegal who are way better than us at the moment. There's no fun in going into games knowing a 10 point plus defeat is the inevitable outcome.

This is the kind of thinking that is prevalent in many discussions currently on our games. It's extremely short sighted and will have major effects on the strength of Gaelic Games in many counties. Yes Derry are struggling right now but it wasn't that long ago when they were at a much higher level. Throwing them into a b competition will not make it any easier to make a recovery. It will make it far harder!
Unless counties make a quick escape from the losers league, they will get trapped in mediocrity with no chance of breaking free. How do teams or individuals get better? They push themselves against superior opposition, learn from it, work harder and try to reach that superior level. In the losers league, that's going to be impossible. The counties in the A competition will push further ahead.
Added to this, the interest in the losers league will be minimal. Supporters won't attend these matches, players will drop off county panels, it will kill Gaelic Football in the counties who've been deemed an inconvenience to the elites.


This kind of thinking is prevalent and short sighted, and then you say counties need to learn and work harder?? La La land. The vast majority of counties haven't a snowballs chance in hell of winning Sam regardless of how hard they work or how much they learn. Keep the provencials and also have a tiered championship which will allow the minnows a snowballs chance

Why keep provincials though.

If Longford or Carlow have to play in a b c'ship because they can't compete with the likes of dublin , what's the purpose of playing in Leinster where they have to meet same.

JoG2

Quote from: BennyCake on October 21, 2018, 11:48:52 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 21, 2018, 11:21:25 AM
Quote from: priceyreilly on October 21, 2018, 11:07:54 AM
Quote from: lenny on October 21, 2018, 08:34:14 AM
I totally disagree. At this moment in time a B competition is exactly where derry belong. I'd much rather see us playing in a B semifinal and final than being stuffed by tyrone, monaghan and donegal who are way better than us at the moment. There's no fun in going into games knowing a 10 point plus defeat is the inevitable outcome.

This is the kind of thinking that is prevalent in many discussions currently on our games. It's extremely short sighted and will have major effects on the strength of Gaelic Games in many counties. Yes Derry are struggling right now but it wasn't that long ago when they were at a much higher level. Throwing them into a b competition will not make it any easier to make a recovery. It will make it far harder!
Unless counties make a quick escape from the losers league, they will get trapped in mediocrity with no chance of breaking free. How do teams or individuals get better? They push themselves against superior opposition, learn from it, work harder and try to reach that superior level. In the losers league, that's going to be impossible. The counties in the A competition will push further ahead.
Added to this, the interest in the losers league will be minimal. Supporters won't attend these matches, players will drop off county panels, it will kill Gaelic Football in the counties who've been deemed an inconvenience to the elites.


This kind of thinking is prevalent and short sighted, and then you say counties need to learn and work harder?? La La land. The vast majority of counties haven't a snowballs chance in hell of winning Sam regardless of how hard they work or how much they learn. Keep the provencials and also have a tiered championship which will allow the minnows a snowballs chance

Why keep provincials though.

If Longford or Carlow have to play in a b c'ship because they can't compete with the likes of dublin , what's the purpose of playing in Leinster where they have to meet same.

I was actually thinking about the Leinster turkey shoot whilst I was typing. Maybe trying to find some middle ground initially and not going for a seismic shift.

priceyreilly

Quote from: JoG2 on October 21, 2018, 11:21:25 AM

This kind of thinking is prevalent and short sighted, and then you say counties need to learn and work harder?? La La land. The vast majority of counties haven't a snowballs chance in hell of winning Sam regardless of how hard they work or how much they learn. Keep the provencials and also have a tiered championship which will allow the minnows a snowballs chance

For some reason you deleted this part of my post. Why did you do that?

Quote from: priceyreilly on October 21, 2018, 11:07:54 AM
We know from looking at hurling that this strategy will not work. We also know what will work from looking at hurling! Dublin were minnows in the Leinster hurling championship, never mind at All Ireland level. Huge investment went into that county and they went on to win a provincial championship, a national league and become contenders for an All Ireland. This is what works. You invest in counties with a strategic plan and officers in place to oversee it.
This is what the 'weaker' counties should be pushing for. Stand together and fight for equal funding and fairness in our association. Not meakly surrender to their wishes of having an elite game without the riff raff.

priceyreilly

Quote from: Rossfan on October 21, 2018, 11:22:48 AM
Leitrim should be winning All Irelands after 120 years of playing top teams in Connacht and big teams from other Provinces on the Qualifiers.
Or is it just money they need like the Dublin hurlers.

For the benefit of Northerners I'd better put in one of these ::)

We better kick all counties with a small population out so. Monaghan only have 60,000 people. Time to ignore anything they've won recently and boot them into the losers league. What's the population limit? Everyone under 100,000 gets kicked out?

priceyreilly

Quote from: JoG2 on October 21, 2018, 12:05:31 PM
I was actually thinking about the Leinster turkey shoot whilst I was typing. Maybe trying to find some middle ground initially and not going for a seismic shift.

Or instead of killing Gaelic football in all these counties, why don't we look at the recent past when the football championship was competitive and what changed that.
The Leinster championship is a great example. In 2004 Westmeath won it, in 2003 Laois won it. In the decade before it was won by Kildare, Meath, Offaly and yes Dublin. It was open, competitive and exciting. Then Dublin had millions of euro pumped into them and the Leinster championship was destroyed, it's now dead.
The same thing is happening at All Ireland level. Dublin are murdering the competition and the only counties who can come anywhere close are those with money.
Why should all the 'weaker' counties be punished because of the financial doping of others? There's those who say something similar to 'why drag the best down, it's up to the others to catch up'. Well let me give you an analogy that explains this.
I'm going to use cycling. Lance Armstrong was at the top of that sport, 7 Tour De France titles. He was doped to the eyeballs, in order to try to catch him, others doped themselves to the gills also. That is where we're at in Gaelic football. Dublin are Lance Armstrong and there's a few counties trying to keep up but they don't have access to the best drugs.
In cycling they attempted to clean it up. The speed cyclists were going up mountains slowed, the standard got worse but it was a fair competition. That's what we have to do in Gaelic football. Try to rid us of the dopers and let us have a fair competition once more.

Rossfan

Ok so how much do you think Leitrim should get and how soon will they be winning Sam?
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

priceyreilly

Quote from: Rossfan on October 21, 2018, 12:49:56 PM
Ok so how much do you think Leitrim should get and how soon will they be winning Sam?

You forgot to answer these questions for some reason.

Quote from: priceyreilly on October 21, 2018, 12:31:59 PM
We better kick all counties with a small population out so. Monaghan only have 60,000 people. Time to ignore anything they've won recently and boot them into the losers league. What's the population limit? Everyone under 100,000 gets kicked out?

Rossfan

No question there just you ranting about something that hadn't been proposed by anyone.
Now how much money do Leitrim need to win Sam?
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

priceyreilly

Quote from: Rossfan on October 21, 2018, 02:27:00 PM
No question there just you ranting about something that hadn't been proposed by anyone.
Now how much money do Leitrim need to win Sam?

I've shortened the quote to make it easier for you:

Quote from: priceyreilly on October 21, 2018, 12:31:59 PM
What's the population limit? Everyone under 100,000 gets kicked out?

Syferus

#326
Quote from: Rossfan on October 21, 2018, 02:27:00 PM
No question there just you ranting about something that hadn't been proposed by anyone.
Now how much money do Leitrim need to win Sam?

Why are you trying your hardest to set up the strawman of winning an AI being the gauge of success in the championship?

Also giving the super-province team of Dublin exists you could easily replace Leitrim with Kerry or Mayo and it would apply just as well. Which ironically makes the case for fixing the finances first before any childish, attention deficit induced attempts at format change are attempted.

BennyCake

Quote from: JoG2 on October 21, 2018, 12:05:31 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 21, 2018, 11:48:52 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 21, 2018, 11:21:25 AM
Quote from: priceyreilly on October 21, 2018, 11:07:54 AM
Quote from: lenny on October 21, 2018, 08:34:14 AM
I totally disagree. At this moment in time a B competition is exactly where derry belong. I'd much rather see us playing in a B semifinal and final than being stuffed by tyrone, monaghan and donegal who are way better than us at the moment. There's no fun in going into games knowing a 10 point plus defeat is the inevitable outcome.

This is the kind of thinking that is prevalent in many discussions currently on our games. It's extremely short sighted and will have major effects on the strength of Gaelic Games in many counties. Yes Derry are struggling right now but it wasn't that long ago when they were at a much higher level. Throwing them into a b competition will not make it any easier to make a recovery. It will make it far harder!
Unless counties make a quick escape from the losers league, they will get trapped in mediocrity with no chance of breaking free. How do teams or individuals get better? They push themselves against superior opposition, learn from it, work harder and try to reach that superior level. In the losers league, that's going to be impossible. The counties in the A competition will push further ahead.
Added to this, the interest in the losers league will be minimal. Supporters won't attend these matches, players will drop off county panels, it will kill Gaelic Football in the counties who've been deemed an inconvenience to the elites.


This kind of thinking is prevalent and short sighted, and then you say counties need to learn and work harder?? La La land. The vast majority of counties haven't a snowballs chance in hell of winning Sam regardless of how hard they work or how much they learn. Keep the provencials and also have a tiered championship which will allow the minnows a snowballs chance

Why keep provincials though.

If Longford or Carlow have to play in a b c'ship because they can't compete with the likes of dublin , what's the purpose of playing in Leinster where they have to meet same.

I was actually thinking about the Leinster turkey shoot whilst I was typing. Maybe trying to find some middle ground initially and not going for a seismic shift.

The provincials have been seriously devalued since 2001.  If there was a tiered system the provincials would become utterly meaningless. Playing them would become a token gesture.

twohands!!!

Quote from: BennyCake on October 21, 2018, 11:48:52 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 21, 2018, 11:21:25 AM
Quote from: priceyreilly on October 21, 2018, 11:07:54 AM
Quote from: lenny on October 21, 2018, 08:34:14 AM
I totally disagree. At this moment in time a B competition is exactly where derry belong. I'd much rather see us playing in a B semifinal and final than being stuffed by tyrone, monaghan and donegal who are way better than us at the moment. There's no fun in going into games knowing a 10 point plus defeat is the inevitable outcome.

This is the kind of thinking that is prevalent in many discussions currently on our games. It's extremely short sighted and will have major effects on the strength of Gaelic Games in many counties. Yes Derry are struggling right now but it wasn't that long ago when they were at a much higher level. Throwing them into a b competition will not make it any easier to make a recovery. It will make it far harder!
Unless counties make a quick escape from the losers league, they will get trapped in mediocrity with no chance of breaking free. How do teams or individuals get better? They push themselves against superior opposition, learn from it, work harder and try to reach that superior level. In the losers league, that's going to be impossible. The counties in the A competition will push further ahead.
Added to this, the interest in the losers league will be minimal. Supporters won't attend these matches, players will drop off county panels, it will kill Gaelic Football in the counties who've been deemed an inconvenience to the elites.


This kind of thinking is prevalent and short sighted, and then you say counties need to learn and work harder?? La La land. The vast majority of counties haven't a snowballs chance in hell of winning Sam regardless of how hard they work or how much they learn. Keep the provencials and also have a tiered championship which will allow the minnows a snowballs chance

Why keep provincials though.


The real reason for keeping the provincial championship is because once you get rid of them, then the need for the provincial councils pretty much disappears.
Far too many GAA committee men would be out of a job if the provincial councils were done away with.
Instead the provincial councils will remain until the sun burns out.

BennyCake

There's more to a provincial council than the senior county c'ship. It's the cash cow but it's only 5 or 6 matches a year