Northern nationalists versus ?

[sid waddell]

Nationalism is a disease.

I thoroughly agree

Plenty of posters here waaaay down that rabbit hole

Agreed. Amazing what can be justified in the the name of nationalism

The hilarious thing about Irish ultra-nationalists is their default reaction to any Irish person who disagrees with them is to deny that person's nationality

They genuinely think calling somebody a "West Brit" is an ace debating tactic rather than a demonstration of a paucity of argument

Is it ok to disagree with someone or do we just follow your views?

I'm not the person acting as the thought police here mate

That'd be the Shinners

[sid waddell]

The Free Staters showing shame is not something in their vocabulary.

Do you show shame?

[Milltown Row2]

This is the place to see the true colours of our Irish men. Ones that benefit from years of freedom and ones who still are under the rule of London..

All these Tit for tat posts will make good reading

Strange that, the Sinn Fein narrative here lately has been that the PIRA actually attained freedom for their people while the citizens of the Republic simultaneously languish without freedom under Fianna Fail and Fine Gael!

Now the narrative is the opposite!

Yis are fierce confused 

SF or PIRA didn't attain anything, The north is the same place as it was when the south turned its back on it, I think it's you that is confused

[sid waddell]

This is the place to see the true colours of our Irish men. Ones that benefit from years of freedom and ones who still are under the rule of London..

All these Tit for tat posts will make good reading

Strange that, the Sinn Fein narrative here lately has been that the PIRA actually attained freedom for their people while the citizens of the Republic simultaneously languish without freedom under Fianna Fail and Fine Gael!

Now the narrative is the opposite!

Yis are fierce confused 

SF or PIRA didn't attain anything, The north is the same place as it was when the south turned its back on it, I think it's you that is confused

I agree they didn't attain anything - except societal devastation

But I haven't been claiming they attained anything - that'd be the Shinners trying to dress up a defeat as a victory

So I'm not sure how you'd think I'm confused

Confusion, I suppose

[Milltown Row2]

This is the place to see the true colours of our Irish men. Ones that benefit from years of freedom and ones who still are under the rule of London..

All these Tit for tat posts will make good reading

Strange that, the Sinn Fein narrative here lately has been that the PIRA actually attained freedom for their people while the citizens of the Republic simultaneously languish without freedom under Fianna Fail and Fine Gael!

Now the narrative is the opposite!

Yis are fierce confused 

SF or PIRA didn't attain anything, The north is the same place as it was when the south turned its back on it, I think it's you that is confused

I agree they didn't attain anything - except societal devastation

But I haven't been claiming they attained anything - that'd be the Shinners trying to dress up a defeat as a victory

So I'm not sure how you'd think I'm confused

Confusion, I suppose

You've literally no idea of life in the north, none, you're assessment is based on living in the south.

Be like me assessing what life would have been like without having my bag searched on way to school house being searched, intimidating work environments, job inequality, no housing, gerrymandering, I  could go on.

Nice sitting in Ivory tower looking down. 

Im not SF nor for violence.

[sid waddell]

This is the place to see the true colours of our Irish men. Ones that benefit from years of freedom and ones who still are under the rule of London..

All these Tit for tat posts will make good reading

Strange that, the Sinn Fein narrative here lately has been that the PIRA actually attained freedom for their people while the citizens of the Republic simultaneously languish without freedom under Fianna Fail and Fine Gael!

Now the narrative is the opposite!

Yis are fierce confused 

SF or PIRA didn't attain anything, The north is the same place as it was when the south turned its back on it, I think it's you that is confused

I agree they didn't attain anything - except societal devastation

But I haven't been claiming they attained anything - that'd be the Shinners trying to dress up a defeat as a victory

So I'm not sure how you'd think I'm confused

Confusion, I suppose

You've literally no idea of life in the north, none, you're assessment is based on living in the south.

Be like me assessing what life would have been like without having my bag searched on way to school house being searched, intimidating work environments, job inequality, no housing, gerrymandering, I  could go on.

Nice sitting in Ivory tower looking down. 

Im not SF nor for violence.

If you believe that, then neither has Sinn Fein's leadership

The majority of the Catholic population of the north apparently had no idea what it was like to live there, given they didn't vote for Sinn Fein and didn't support the IRA

[Angelo]

The Free Staters showing shame is not something in their vocabulary.

Do you show shame?

Free Staters don't for all the people they killed only to betray their northern brethern and sit back and watch as they were dehumanised under British rule, then moralise and pontificate to them when they dared defend themselves.

It's about time the Free State apologised to northern nationalists for the treachery and abandonment once they obtained their freedom. It is sad the way you now try and rewrite history to defend the murder of civilians.

[sid waddell]

The Free Staters showing shame is not something in their vocabulary.

Do you show shame?

Free Staters don't for all the people they killed only to betray their northern brethern and sit back and watch as they were dehumanised under British rule, then moralise and pontificate to them when they dared defend themselves.

It's about time the Free State apologised to northern nationalists for the treachery and abandonment once they obtained their freedom. It is sad the way you now try and rewrite history to defend the murder of civilians.

Now that's pontificating

Not answer to the question though

Did you, who self-identifies as a PIRA supporter, show shame for all the civilians your crowd murdered?

[Milltown Row2]

This is the place to see the true colours of our Irish men. Ones that benefit from years of freedom and ones who still are under the rule of London..

All these Tit for tat posts will make good reading

Strange that, the Sinn Fein narrative here lately has been that the PIRA actually attained freedom for their people while the citizens of the Republic simultaneously languish without freedom under Fianna Fail and Fine Gael!

Now the narrative is the opposite!

Yis are fierce confused 

SF or PIRA didn't attain anything, The north is the same place as it was when the south turned its back on it, I think it's you that is confused

I agree they didn't attain anything - except societal devastation

But I haven't been claiming they attained anything - that'd be the Shinners trying to dress up a defeat as a victory

So I'm not sure how you'd think I'm confused

Confusion, I suppose

You've literally no idea of life in the north, none, you're assessment is based on living in the south.

Be like me assessing what life would have been like without having my bag searched on way to school house being searched, intimidating work environments, job inequality, no housing, gerrymandering, I  could go on.

Nice sitting in Ivory tower looking down. 

Im not SF nor for violence.

If you believe that, then neither has Sinn Fein's leadership

The majority of the Catholic population of the north apparently had no idea what it was like to live there, given they didn't vote for Sinn Fein and didn't support the IRA

I believe you've no idea, unless you can provide me with your time, you life in the north. Your experience of the north consisted of?

[Harold Disgracey]

To be honest Sid comes across as a bit of a pseudo-intellectual of the Ruth Dudley Edwards school of thinking. Best ignored.

[grounded]

This is the place to see the true colours of our Irish men. Ones that benefit from years of freedom and ones who still are under the rule of London..

All these Tit for tat posts will make good reading

Strange that, the Sinn Fein narrative here lately has been that the PIRA actually attained freedom for their people while the citizens of the Republic simultaneously languish without freedom under Fianna Fail and Fine Gael!

Now the narrative is the opposite!

Yis are fierce confused 

SF or PIRA didn't attain anything, The north is the same place as it was when the south turned its back on it, I think it's you that is confused

I agree they didn't attain anything - except societal devastation

But I haven't been claiming they attained anything - that'd be the Shinners trying to dress up a defeat as a victory

So I'm not sure how you'd think I'm confused

Confusion, I suppose

Sid,

Honest question. Has reading any of the input from other posters on this thread, the Sinn Fein thread or the US thread ever enlightened  or caused you to re-evaluate your beliefs? 
       Surely the whole point of debate is to try and sway (at least some people to your line of thinking) and simultaneously trying to understand the other point of view and to theoretically (at least ) leave yourself open to be swayed the other way.
         
       

[sid waddell]

This is the place to see the true colours of our Irish men. Ones that benefit from years of freedom and ones who still are under the rule of London..

All these Tit for tat posts will make good reading

Strange that, the Sinn Fein narrative here lately has been that the PIRA actually attained freedom for their people while the citizens of the Republic simultaneously languish without freedom under Fianna Fail and Fine Gael!

Now the narrative is the opposite!

Yis are fierce confused 

SF or PIRA didn't attain anything, The north is the same place as it was when the south turned its back on it, I think it's you that is confused

I agree they didn't attain anything - except societal devastation

But I haven't been claiming they attained anything - that'd be the Shinners trying to dress up a defeat as a victory

So I'm not sure how you'd think I'm confused

Confusion, I suppose

You've literally no idea of life in the north, none, you're assessment is based on living in the south.

Be like me assessing what life would have been like without having my bag searched on way to school house being searched, intimidating work environments, job inequality, no housing, gerrymandering, I  could go on.

Nice sitting in Ivory tower looking down. 

Im not SF nor for violence.

If you believe that, then neither has Sinn Fein's leadership

The majority of the Catholic population of the north apparently had no idea what it was like to live there, given they didn't vote for Sinn Fein and didn't support the IRA

I believe you've no idea, unless you can provide me with your time, you life in the north. Your experience of the north consisted of?

Ah, the old "you don't live here" excuse beloved of the Trump cultists

I wasn't aware you had to live anywhere in particular to know that murdering civilians is wrong, but sure you learn something new every day

The same Shinners and nationalists who wheel out these weasel words are generally the same ones who have extremely strong views on politics in the Republic, but by their own logic they have no right to hold any views on politics in the Republic

Partitionists when it suits them and anti-partitionists when it doesn't 

Some rabbit hole that

[sid waddell]

This is the place to see the true colours of our Irish men. Ones that benefit from years of freedom and ones who still are under the rule of London..

All these Tit for tat posts will make good reading

Strange that, the Sinn Fein narrative here lately has been that the PIRA actually attained freedom for their people while the citizens of the Republic simultaneously languish without freedom under Fianna Fail and Fine Gael!

Now the narrative is the opposite!

Yis are fierce confused 

SF or PIRA didn't attain anything, The north is the same place as it was when the south turned its back on it, I think it's you that is confused

I agree they didn't attain anything - except societal devastation

But I haven't been claiming they attained anything - that'd be the Shinners trying to dress up a defeat as a victory

So I'm not sure how you'd think I'm confused

Confusion, I suppose

Sid,

Honest question. Has reading any of the input from other posters on this thread, the Sinn Fein thread or the US thread ever enlightened  or caused you to re-evaluate your beliefs? 
       Surely the whole point of debate is to try and sway (at least some people to your line of thinking) and simultaneously trying to understand the other point of view and to theoretically (at least ) leave yourself open to be swayed the other way.
         
       

I'm always re-evaluating my beliefs

I certainly haven't been in any way swayed by any debate from Shinners, Trumpists or conservative Catholics on this forum because the standard of knowledge and debate is so low from them, and the bad faith is even worse

[Angelo]

This is the place to see the true colours of our Irish men. Ones that benefit from years of freedom and ones who still are under the rule of London..

All these Tit for tat posts will make good reading

Strange that, the Sinn Fein narrative here lately has been that the PIRA actually attained freedom for their people while the citizens of the Republic simultaneously languish without freedom under Fianna Fail and Fine Gael!

Now the narrative is the opposite!

Yis are fierce confused 

SF or PIRA didn't attain anything, The north is the same place as it was when the south turned its back on it, I think it's you that is confused

I agree they didn't attain anything - except societal devastation

But I haven't been claiming they attained anything - that'd be the Shinners trying to dress up a defeat as a victory

So I'm not sure how you'd think I'm confused

Confusion, I suppose

You've literally no idea of life in the north, none, you're assessment is based on living in the south.

Be like me assessing what life would have been like without having my bag searched on way to school house being searched, intimidating work environments, job inequality, no housing, gerrymandering, I  could go on.

Nice sitting in Ivory tower looking down. 

Im not SF nor for violence.

If you believe that, then neither has Sinn Fein's leadership

The majority of the Catholic population of the north apparently had no idea what it was like to live there, given they didn't vote for Sinn Fein and didn't support the IRA

I believe you've no idea, unless you can provide me with your time, you life in the north. Your experience of the north consisted of?

Ah, the old "you don't live here" excuse beloved of the Trump cultists

I wasn't aware you had to live anywhere in particular to know that murdering civilians is wrong, but sure you learn something new every day

The same Shinners and nationalists who wheel out these weasel words are generally the same ones who have extremely strong views on politics in the Republic, but by their own logic they have no right to hold any views on politics in the Republic

Partitionists when it suits them and anti-partitionists when it doesn't 

Some rabbit hole that

Well that's a lie. You have all the hallmarks of a Trumpist.

[Milltown Row2]

Do point out were I said murdering civilians is ok?

Unless you're brain dead, I put up I was against violence.

But let's see how many times we can get the word Trump into your posts