So off we go again
Who will win it and who is going down.
Will COVID wreck the fixtures this side of Christmas or should it be played at all.
Interesting times
Other than Liverpool fans I'd say most people thought last season ended very tamely. I don't see much appetite for football with no fans to be honest or any sport for that matter.
Recent happening in Ireland/UK re not increasing crowd numbers and cancelling test events makes me think 'normality' whatever that may be is a long way aways
I enjoyed the end to the season, being kept interested in the relegation scrap. But yes I can see that many games were damp squibs.
I expect they will carry on regardless as there is money to be made. That seems to be the trend in most places now with regards to the virus.
Interested to see how Leeds and Bielsa get on.
The next 3 weeks will be a very busy time in terms of transfers. Wouldn't like to predict anything until the cash has been splashed by most of the teams.
Quote from: lurganblue on August 05, 2020, 02:52:50 PM
I enjoyed the end to the season, being kept interested in the relegation scrap. But yes I can see that many games were damp squibs.
I expect they will carry on regardless as there is money to be made. That seems to be the trend in most places now with regards to the virus.
Interested to see how Leeds and Bielsa get on.
The next 3 weeks will be a very busy time in terms of transfers. Wouldn't like to predict anything until the cash has been splashed by most of the teams.
They will be a great bet for over 3.5 goals every week.
Quote from: Hereiam on August 05, 2020, 01:57:06 PM
So off we go again
Who will win it and who is going down.
Will COVID wreck the fixtures this side of Christmas or should it be played at all.
Interesting times
Liverpool will win it. Don't know who'll go down.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 05, 2020, 02:56:17 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on August 05, 2020, 01:57:06 PM
So off we go again
Who will win it and who is going down.
Will COVID wreck the fixtures this side of Christmas or should it be played at all.
Interesting times
Liverpool will win it. Don't know who'll go down.
Damn right - Next year is our year! ;D
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 05, 2020, 02:56:17 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on August 05, 2020, 01:57:06 PM
So off we go again
Who will win it and who is going down.
Will COVID wreck the fixtures this side of Christmas or should it be played at all.
Interesting times
Liverpool will win it. Don't know who'll go down.
I think they'll win it too but certainly not near as comfortable as this year.
City still the biggest challengers.
A packed schedule ahead for teams that wants to go far in every competition.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfTN0PmXsAM6SQb?format=png&name=900x900)
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 13, 2020, 05:03:25 PM
A packed schedule ahead for teams that wants to go far in every competition.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfTN0PmXsAM6SQb?format=png&name=900x900)
The size of your squad will be the main thing this year, if you're light in terms of numbers then you'll suffer big time
I think I read somewhere that teams still in Europe are guaranteed a month off after they finish? Potentially leaving Utd/City playing even more of a catch up..... God forbid they'd both win their competitions and have to play in The Super Cup too...
Fixtures out yet?
Quote from: Boycey on August 13, 2020, 05:54:13 PM
I think I read somewhere that teams still in Europe are guaranteed a month off after they finish? Potentially leaving Utd/City playing even more of a catch up..... God forbid they'd both win their competitions and have to play in The Super Cup too...
If they both won their respective European Competitions. Then all logic would see the Super Cup being played in Manchester?
What da fook is Chris Waddle smoking??
(https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=526023&d=1599844017)
Chris Waddle: There are a lot of games jammed into this season and I am looking at the teams with the biggest squads as the ones who will do well. I don't think Liverpool will cope. City will, of course, but I just have a sneaky feeling United will spring a surprise. They already have a lot of quality on their books, and they might sign a couple more.
Predictions then. Some more transfers are to come in of course but for the time being... City win it, with Liverpool a close second. Mid 80s points total. Chelsea 3rd and Utd 4th. If Chelsea don't compete towards the end then fat Frank will be out.
Only 2 relegation teams id pick at the minute are West brom and Fulham. Any 1 from another 10 could also be relegated.
Top 4
Liverpool
Man City
Arsenal
Chelsea
Relegated
Villa
Fulham
West Brom
Fancy Sheffield Utd to go down. Second season syndrome, new keeper etc
Liverpools league title to lose. Will Manchester City improve on last season form? I doubt it. Roman Abramovich will sack Lampard if Chelsea don't at least challenge for the title.
Tottenham, Arsenal, Manchester United should battle it out for the final champions league spot.
Relegation 3 from 10 teams.
Liverpool
City
United
Chelsea
Fulham
West Brom
Brighton
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 11, 2020, 10:45:07 PM
Chris Waddle: There are a lot of games jammed into this season and I am looking at the teams with the biggest squads as the ones who will do well. I don't think Liverpool will cope. City will, of course, but I just have a sneaky feeling United will spring a surprise. They already have a lot of quality on their books, and they might sign a couple more.
Jesus! Must have been on the dope
Fancy it going much the same as last year.
Liverpool winning it and City second, both way ahead of the rest.
Potentially Chelsea third with the help of their new additions,
Arsenal 4th,
Tottenham and United 5th and 6th in no particular order.
IF United play like they did from February onwards for the whole season then there's every probability they'll secure 3rd. Liverpool will win it handy again.
Liverpool to win it again but it'll be a lot closer than last season, City and Chelsea to run them close. Can't see Liverpool getting 90 odd points again, hard to maintain that unbelievable level of consistency for a 3rd season in a row.
Villa, Fulham and West brom to go down. Dean Smith 1st manager to get the road.
Hopefully it's a more entertaining season. Last year was dull and low quality.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 12, 2020, 09:08:05 AM
IF United play like they did from February onwards for the whole season then there's every probability they'll secure 3rd. Liverpool will win it handy again.
Which would bring them to 20, same as Fergie FC
Quote from: Bronco on September 12, 2020, 12:27:28 PM
Hopefully it's a more entertaining season. Last year was dull and low quality.
Someone trying too hard me thinks...
Not sure what you're getting at. I thought the quality and entertainment in the League last year was really poor. You're of course welcome to disagree.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on September 12, 2020, 06:35:03 PM
Quote from: Bronco on September 12, 2020, 12:27:28 PM
Hopefully it's a more entertaining season. Last year was dull and low quality.
Someone trying too hard me thinks...
Villa well tipped to be the 3rd team to go down on here and by a lot of the pundits. After lockdown, Villa were quite solid. A couple of additions and holding onto Grealish, I'd be hopeful of around 15th.
Quote from: Bronco on September 12, 2020, 06:41:42 PM
Not sure what you're getting at. I thought the quality and entertainment in the League last year was really poor. You're of course welcome to disagree.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on September 12, 2020, 06:35:03 PM
Quote from: Bronco on September 12, 2020, 12:27:28 PM
Hopefully it's a more entertaining season. Last year was dull and low quality.
Someone trying too hard me thinks...
You're right Bronco. It was as good as over at Christmas.
Chelsea
Liverpool
Man City
Arsenal
WBA
Fulham
You just relegatin the two this year chap 😃
Thats v magnanimous of you tho the Championship guys wont be happy
It was over well before Christmas, a real lack of quality sides or even entertaining football made for a poor season imo.
Hoping for better viewing this season.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 13, 2020, 02:57:48 PM
Quote from: Bronco on September 12, 2020, 06:41:42 PM
Not sure what you're getting at. I thought the quality and entertainment in the League last year was really poor. You're of course welcome to disagree.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on September 12, 2020, 06:35:03 PM
Quote from: Bronco on September 12, 2020, 12:27:28 PM
Hopefully it's a more entertaining season. Last year was dull and low quality.
Someone trying too hard me thinks...
You're right Bronco. It was as good as over at Christmas.
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on September 13, 2020, 05:35:20 PM
You just relegatin the two this year chap 😃
Thats v magnanimous of you tho the Championship guys wont be happy
And Brighton 😉
Liverpool won't be as good as they were the last 2 seasons, and there's a good chance Arsenal, ManU and Chelsea could all improve significantly. It'll depend on how new signings bed in, one of the 3 will disappoint I'd guess.
Man City are the unknown for me. I was hoping Aguero would feck off, as even at his age, he's still the best striker in the league. Assuming he's not a regular, I think it'll be a close league with 4 teams still well in contention in early Spring. But Liverpool and Man City to be better in the run-in.
City are totally reliant on Aguero to have any chance of winning the League,Jesus isn't on the same level. And City's defence has been a joke for years. I'd be surprised if they win it.
Spurs look like relegation candidates today.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 13, 2020, 11:49:59 PM
Spurs look like relegation candidates today.
How long will José last?
I doubt he'll be there at Christmas.
I'd be surprised too. Bizarre hiring to begin with.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 13, 2020, 11:57:58 PM
I'd be surprised too. Bizarre hiring to begin with.
Amazing the lengths Tottenham went to for Amazon with that hiring.
The guy's number is up. He hasn't advanced in years. He's useless and I do not understand why spurs went near him. (Though in saying that they will be nowhere near relegation if he stays I suspect)
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 14, 2020, 09:38:35 AM
The guy's number is up. He hasn't advanced in years. He's useless and I do not understand why spurs went near him. (Though in saying that they will be nowhere near relegation if he stays I suspect)
He complains about this, that and the other, but he's the one who plays unfit players, ones not right or whatever..
Time Jose owned his own shít.
I dislike José immensely.
But the reason why Spurs went him is straightforward enough: he wins trophies. Talk about football leaving him behind all you want. But he gets the job done.
——
Can anyone explain to me how Clinton Morrison has a job as a football pundit? Soccer Saturday this week was bland and incohesive. It felt like Final Score. We don't need another Final Score.
Quote from: thewobbler on September 14, 2020, 10:04:21 AM
Can anyone explain to me how Clinton Morrison has a job as a football pundit? Soccer Saturday this week was bland and incohesive. It felt like Final Score. We don't need another Final Score.
I hear Clinton Morrison from time to time on talksport - he genuinely struggles to string a coherent sentence together. Awful pundit he must have a great agent.
Just on Soccer Saturday anybody see the Paddy Power video with the sacked trio? Very funny.
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 14, 2020, 09:38:35 AM
The guy's number is up. He hasn't advanced in years. He's useless and I do not understand why spurs went near him. (Though in saying that they will be nowhere near relegation if he stays I suspect)
Jose was found out in his last season at Madrid. That was 2013. Baffling how he still gets big jobs. And he will again after Tottenham get rid of him.
Quote from: BennyCake on September 14, 2020, 10:51:36 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 14, 2020, 09:38:35 AM
The guy's number is up. He hasn't advanced in years. He's useless and I do not understand why spurs went near him. (Though in saying that they will be nowhere near relegation if he stays I suspect)
Jose was found out in his last season at Madrid. That was 2013. Baffling how he still gets big jobs. And he will again after Tottenham get rid of him.
In fairness, he did get United a 2nd place finish. As time goes on, that does look like a fairly decent achievement (as well as Europa League).
That 2nd place finish is nearly as impressive as any of his trophies given the dearth of quality in the side.
He's not my cup of tea but there's no denying his managerial record. The simple truth is the players he has at Spurs are a really poor bunch.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 14, 2020, 10:56:01 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 14, 2020, 10:51:36 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 14, 2020, 09:38:35 AM
The guy's number is up. He hasn't advanced in years. He's useless and I do not understand why spurs went near him. (Though in saying that they will be nowhere near relegation if he stays I suspect)
Jose was found out in his last season at Madrid. That was 2013. Baffling how he still gets big jobs. And he will again after Tottenham get rid of him.
In fairness, he did get United a 2nd place finish. As time goes on, that does look like a fairly decent achievement (as well as Europa League).
Are Spurs really a big club?
They're linked with Ings this morning. They would need to have a look at their MF if Winks is still getting a game.
Agree on Winks, he's not good enough. But they have so many problems in the side. The keeper seems to make a howler every 3 or 4 games, full backs have been poor for years, the current pair Davies and Doherty aren't great, and there's a lack of creativity in midfield since Eriksen left.
Honestly think a top four finish with the current side would be an amazing acheivement and massively unlikely. As the squad stands I can't see them finishing higher than 6th unless Arsenal make a mess of things.
Quote from: lurganblue on September 14, 2020, 12:29:50 PM
They're linked with Ings this morning. They would need to have a look at their MF if Winks is still getting a game.
Quote from: Angelo on September 14, 2020, 12:21:22 PM
Are Spurs really a big club?
Watch this space. . . if they get the NFL franchise they will be a big club!
Never understood the big club thing. What difference does it make whether they are or aren't? Ultimately to be successful they need to attract the best players,and to do that they need to offer things like money, stadium, quality of life etc. On that front they are a London club with a fantastic stadium, and long-term once the revenues ramp up they'll be in a pretty good position.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 14, 2020, 10:56:01 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 14, 2020, 10:51:36 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 14, 2020, 09:38:35 AM
The guy's number is up. He hasn't advanced in years. He's useless and I do not understand why spurs went near him. (Though in saying that they will be nowhere near relegation if he stays I suspect)
Jose was found out in his last season at Madrid. That was 2013. Baffling how he still gets big jobs. And he will again after Tottenham get rid of him.
In fairness, he did get United a 2nd place finish. As time goes on, that does look like a fairly decent achievement (as well as Europa League).
Jose's league finishing achievement was the equivalent to Ole last season. Not contending for the league but secured a CL spot. Last season nobody cared who finished 3rd or 4th (I can't even remember whether it was Chelsea or ManU), the critical thing was not being 5th or 6th, which both Lampard and OGS can be satisfied with. In that year Jose came 2nd, the CL spots 2-4 were reasonably secure about a month out, with none of the 3 being anywhere near City. Nobody cared who finished 2nd, 3rd and 4th (apart from Jose).
Jose did trump Ole by winning the Europa League, which Ole made a reasonably good shot at. Arguably Jose got an easier draw, but you can only beat what's put in front of you.
Jose comes out of every job smelling of roses. Because it's all about him, not the team.
I remember Fellaini heading a late winner Europa League once, and Jose smashing and kicking drinks bottles on the sideline. It's all about me. Look what I done. That goal was all about me. I'm dealing with a limited squad, they won't give me money to spend, but feck me, I'm still a genius! He's Brolly-esque, a narcissist.
Chelsea cruising 3-1 up against Brighton after not playing all that well. 2 of their goals coming from a misplaced backpass and a deflection. I have been disappointed with Havertz who hasn't produced much.
Quote from: Hound on September 14, 2020, 02:19:30 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 14, 2020, 10:56:01 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 14, 2020, 10:51:36 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 14, 2020, 09:38:35 AM
The guy's number is up. He hasn't advanced in years. He's useless and I do not understand why spurs went near him. (Though in saying that they will be nowhere near relegation if he stays I suspect)
Jose was found out in his last season at Madrid. That was 2013. Baffling how he still gets big jobs. And he will again after Tottenham get rid of him.
In fairness, he did get United a 2nd place finish. As time goes on, that does look like a fairly decent achievement (as well as Europa League).
Jose's league finishing achievement was the equivalent to Ole last season. Not contending for the league but secured a CL spot. Last season nobody cared who finished 3rd or 4th (I can't even remember whether it was Chelsea or ManU), the critical thing was not being 5th or 6th, which both Lampard and OGS can be satisfied with. In that year Jose came 2nd, the CL spots 2-4 were reasonably secure about a month out, with none of the 3 being anywhere near City. Nobody cared who finished 2nd, 3rd and 4th (apart from Jose).
Jose did trump Ole by winning the Europa League, which Ole made a reasonably good shot at. Arguably Jose got an easier draw, but you can only beat what's put in front of you.
Mourinho also won the Carling Cup. I think he's responsible for 2 of the 3 trophies won by Utd since Ferguson moved on?
Utd fans have no love for Mourinho, but without him, it would have been a solitary FA Cup by Van Gaal in nearly a decade. Simply not good enough.
Quote from: Capt Pat on September 14, 2020, 09:55:12 PM
Chelsea cruising 3-1 up against Brighton after not playing all that well. 2 of their goals coming from a misplaced backpass and a deflection. I have been disappointed with Havertz who hasn't produced much.
Defo wasn't a good start for him or his selection in my dream team. Werner looked very sharp though, and will be a great addition.
Leeds are some craic to watch. What a mental game this is.
City got out of jail there in the end. City were dominant in the first half but Wolves missed some easy chances in the second half that could have changed the outcome of the game. 3-1 to city with a last second goal.
Liverpool look the best of the contenders so far. I was going to say the same about City after the first half but they were lucky enough to get the result in the end.
I think its going to be a strange season and your going to need a good squad what with covid positive tests effecting who can play and there will probably be more injuries as well because of the quick turn around from last season it wont be just about who has the best 11
West Ham have had 2 players and the manager test positive for covid 19. I hope it doesn't impact the premier league games.
Quote from: Capt Pat on September 22, 2020, 10:13:59 PM
West Ham have had 2 players and the manager test positive for covid 19. I hope it doesn't impact the premier league games.
How did their game go ahead last night?
Surely they had been in contact with the other players
West Brom 3 up after 30mins against Chelsea!
I can't believe a Frank Lampard-managed team is getting thumped like this
A complete shock, nobody could have seen it coming
Who would have thought a 36 year old defender might not be the best transfer idea?
Quote from: Bronco on September 26, 2020, 06:27:46 PM
Who would have thought a 36 year old defender might not be the best transfer idea?
To be fair Alex Ferguson made a similar mistake with Laurent Blanc
I see no reason why Frank can't go on to have as successful a managerial career as Ferguson, apart from him being totally clueless
Quote from: sid waddell on September 26, 2020, 06:22:57 PM
I can't believe a Frank Lampard-managed team is getting thumped like this
A complete shock, nobody could have seen it coming
What a manager ;D
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 26, 2020, 08:07:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 26, 2020, 06:22:57 PM
I can't believe a Frank Lampard-managed team is getting thumped like this
A complete shock, nobody could have seen it coming
What a manager ;D
Awe-inspiring stuff from Lamps
The best of British bravery from his young, wholesome, home grown squad against the untrustworthy, mercenary Johnny Foreigners of Shifty Slaven Bilic
A true moral victory up there with Dunkirk
If the few remaining Chelsea Pensioners weren't being cocooned due to Covid they'd surely be presenting Frank and his fledglings with an award for bravery right now
Quote from: sid waddell on September 26, 2020, 08:30:17 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 26, 2020, 08:07:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 26, 2020, 06:22:57 PM
I can't believe a Frank Lampard-managed team is getting thumped like this
A complete shock, nobody could have seen it coming
What a manager ;D
Awe-inspiring stuff from Lamps
The best of British bravery from his young, wholesome, home grown squad against the untrustworthy, mercenary Johnny Foreigners of Shifty Slaven Bilic
A true moral victory up there with Dunkirk
If the few remaining Chelsea Pensioners weren't being cocooned due to Covid they'd surely be presenting Frank and his fledglings with an award for bravery right now
Oi, yow layve the Yam, Yams alone. Alroight.
A few years ago a comeback draw against West Brom was celebrated wildly by a certain club. . .
Define wildly
That was Liverpool wasnt it? That was funny.
Quote from: square_ball on September 27, 2020, 11:42:49 AM
A few years ago a comeback draw against West Brom was celebrated wildly by a certain club. . .
Quote from: square_ball on September 27, 2020, 11:42:49 AM
A few years ago a comeback draw against West Brom was celebrated wildly by a certain club. . .
Was good practice for nights like this....
https://youtu.be/weec_jzudc8
I thought it was embarrassing but different strokes for different folks...
Quote from: Bronco on September 27, 2020, 12:33:00 PM
I thought it was embarrassing but different strokes for different folks...
Ah yes, it all went so wrong after that day! Klopp making sure the fans connected with the players and vice versa. ;D
VAR strikes again. Dier knew little about that as the ball hit his arm. Newcastles only shot on target the goal from the penalty.
Theyre determined to turn the game into a farce
I don't have much sympathy for Dier there. He had his arms away from his body and knows the rules, only has himself to blame.
Some performance from Leicester. City all over the place.
Is it averaging a penalty game in the premiership?
I see the European Champions got walloped today too, PSG not pulling up many trees either. Still being in pre-season mode not ideal it seems.
Great stuff
This has been a very exciting opening to the season
Liverpool, Everton, Leeds and Leicester would be a great top four come the end
Proper football
All we need now is Villa challenging again
Lamps can breathe easy that he has an even more defensively naive manager to take the heat off him in the media
League over after 2 games. Liverpool have it won already. Standard is shockingly poor these days.
Question re : Man Utd VAR penalty yesterday - game was over, if player hits a post or gk saves and there is a rebound - can they score ? Or is the match completed with the kick ?
Manchester City carrying last season flaky form into the new season.
Quote from: Bronco on September 27, 2020, 06:39:01 PM
League over after 2 games. Liverpool have it won already. Standard is shockingly poor these days.
Standard looks a good deal better in terms of depth than last season, looks like less diddy teams there
Liverpool won't hit 99 points this time
89 might win it
Quote from: delgany on September 27, 2020, 06:42:36 PM
Question re : Man Utd VAR penalty yesterday - game was over, if player hits a post or gk saves and there is a rebound - can they score ? Or is the match completed with the kick ?
Match would have been over, it had to go in first time per the rules.
Pep is turning into Wenger. Already stayed too long.
Wenger was great for a decade or so. Guardiola has always been the emperor's new clothes. When Aguero isn't playing they're awful. Totally reliant on a player he inherited and despite having unlimited funds at his disposal he has failed to assemble a decent defence.
Quote from: Boycey on September 27, 2020, 06:15:45 PM
I see the European Champions got walloped today too, PSG not pulling up many trees either. Still being in pre-season mode not ideal it seems.
Most of the clubs that had European competitions in August seem to be struggling for fitness and sharpness. Watching Wolves now and they look a míle off the pace.
Quote from: Bronco on September 27, 2020, 06:39:01 PM
League over after 2 games. Liverpool have it won already. Standard is shockingly poor these days.
My thoughts exactly.
Quote from: Bronco on September 27, 2020, 04:37:33 PM
I don't have much sympathy for Dier there. He had his arms away from his body and knows the rules, only has himself to blame.
Have you ever played football?
There is simply no way to jump for a ball, especially amidst a group, without your arms coming away from your body.
That handball was a joke. Same with Palace yesterday, Spurs last week and united last week.
Yes, I have played football. And i always found it was a good idea not to give stupid penalties away. Seems Dier hasn't learned that lesson yet.
The bottom line is he knows the rule, he knows Newcastle are desperate for a goal, and yet he still flails an arm out in the box. Absolute stupidity and he got what he deserved.
Quote from: J70 on September 27, 2020, 09:17:59 PM
Quote from: Bronco on September 27, 2020, 04:37:33 PM
I don't have much sympathy for Dier there. He had his arms away from his body and knows the rules, only has himself to blame.
Have you ever played football?
There is simply no way to jump for a ball, especially amidst a group, without your arms coming away from your body.
That handball was a joke. Same with Palace yesterday, Spurs last week and united last week.
Fair play to Steve Bruce for calling it like it was today.....
Quote from: Bronco on September 27, 2020, 09:43:55 PM
Yes, I have played football. And i always found it was a good idea not to give stupid penalties away. Seems Dier hasn't learned that lesson yet.
The bottom line is he knows the rule, he knows Newcastle are desperate for a goal, and yet he still flails an arm out in the box. Absolute stupidity and he got what he deserved.
Quote from: J70 on September 27, 2020, 09:17:59 PM
Quote from: Bronco on September 27, 2020, 04:37:33 PM
I don't have much sympathy for Dier there. He had his arms away from his body and knows the rules, only has himself to blame.
Have you ever played football?
There is simply no way to jump for a ball, especially amidst a group, without your arms coming away from your body.
That handball was a joke. Same with Palace yesterday, Spurs last week and united last week.
I doubt you have ever played any sport to be honest. The rules of all sports are designed (and evolve) to prevent competitors from gaining an unsporting advantage; they are designed to reward skill, application, intelligence and precision. They aren't designed to reward unskilled play, or random instances of bad luck.
You want to try your luck, go to a casino.
Quote from: delgany on September 27, 2020, 06:42:36 PM
Question re : Man Utd VAR penalty yesterday - game was over, if player hits a post or gk saves and there is a rebound - can they score ? Or is the match completed with the kick ?
Good question and I don't know the answer. To follow the logic - if it was over with the last kick, wouldn't that also mean that if the keeper got a hand to it, the game would be over before the ball went in?
Quote from: Boycey on September 27, 2020, 09:44:41 PM
Fair play to Steve Bruce for calling it like it was today.....
It's going to bite every team on the arse eventually.
If they don't change it, players are simply going to have to stop tackling and challenging for the ball in the air when in the box.
Worst part is that there was little wrong with the old, traditional interpretation of handball.
Quote from: J70 on September 27, 2020, 09:17:59 PM
Quote from: Bronco on September 27, 2020, 04:37:33 PM
I don't have much sympathy for Dier there. He had his arms away from his body and knows the rules, only has himself to blame.
Have you ever played football?
There is simply no way to jump for a ball, especially amidst a group, without your arms coming away from your body.
That handball was a joke. Same with Palace yesterday, Spurs last week and united last week.
I wouldn't lump them all in together. I understand what the new rules are trying to do, and most of them are fair enough. As Souness said, it's our mindset that has to change, we're so used to watching them not been given for years that we just scream 'too harsh'. The new rules make it easier for decisions to be consistent, and generally they have been, but there'll always be errors.
The Dier one was definitely an error. A poor decision. Made all the more massive by the timing. Hopefully the premier league will admit the mistake and note the difference between it and the others.
Quote from: delgany on September 27, 2020, 06:42:36 PM
Question re : Man Utd VAR penalty yesterday - game was over, if player hits a post or gk saves and there is a rebound - can they score ? Or is the match completed with the kick ?
I think i read that there cant be any rebound as the match is over and the penalty will literally be the lask kick of the game
Quote from: Hound on September 28, 2020, 07:37:06 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 27, 2020, 09:17:59 PM
Quote from: Bronco on September 27, 2020, 04:37:33 PM
I don't have much sympathy for Dier there. He had his arms away from his body and knows the rules, only has himself to blame.
Have you ever played football?
There is simply no way to jump for a ball, especially amidst a group, without your arms coming away from your body.
That handball was a joke. Same with Palace yesterday, Spurs last week and united last week.
I wouldn't lump them all in together. I understand what the new rules are trying to do, and most of them are fair enough. As Souness said, it's our mindset that has to change, we're so used to watching them not been given for years that we just scream 'too harsh'. The new rules make it easier for decisions to be consistent, and generally they have been, but there'll always be errors.
The Dier one was definitely an error. A poor decision. Made all the more massive by the timing. Hopefully the premier league will admit the mistake and note the difference between it and the others.
I disagree.
This whole "unnaturally bigger" thing is bullshit.
How can moving one's arms and hands, unconsciously, as part of moving and twisting your body be considered to be making your body unnaturally bigger? If you jump, your arms go up. If you slide in, your arms go out and back. It's all part of the body's balancing system.
These rules are unrealistic and uninformed.
As someone who follows Everton, the penalty they got vrs Palace really shouldn't have been given, just like the one Newcastle got yesterday.
I get what they're trying to do in preventing what I'd have called the John Terry Gaelic football block, but holy lord Dyer had his back to it when the ball came off his arm.
Madness.
10 premier league players test positive in latest round of testing.
Hope it's not the start of a wave. Be interesting to see what the PL r number will be from this 10.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 05, 2020, 02:56:17 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on August 05, 2020, 01:57:06 PM
So off we go again
Who will win it and who is going down.
Will COVID wreck the fixtures this side of Christmas or should it be played at all.
Interesting times
Liverpool will win it. Don't know who'll go down.
First one to say Liverpool will win it. It's over now. Lock the thread until next July or August.
Liverpool are by a country mile the best team in the league. I'd fancy them strongly against Bayern in Europe as well.
Liverpool will walk the league again. City will be mediocre again (Pep maybe going before seasons end), but the rest of the teams aren't good enough to claim second place. So City will likely finish runners up again.
Quote from: BennyCake on September 29, 2020, 11:20:48 AM
Liverpool will walk the league again. City will be mediocre again (Pep maybe going before seasons end), but the rest of the teams aren't good enough to claim second place. So City will likely finish runners up again.
Agree. Liverpool will be well ahead.
Can second place with 81 points really be considered mediocre though? Has the bar been raised that high? I'm sure City targeted higher, but they were better than mediocre.
Three games gone (two for City, who didn't have much of a pre-season).
Two games done for Villa and two that would have been targeted as winnable. Sitting where they would want to be after those fixtures. It has defo worked out better than having the Citeh match first instead.
Not expecting anything from Liverpool next, or the Leicester game after for that matter.
Quote from: shark on September 29, 2020, 12:41:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 29, 2020, 11:20:48 AM
Liverpool will walk the league again. City will be mediocre again (Pep maybe going before seasons end), but the rest of the teams aren't good enough to claim second place. So City will likely finish runners up again.
Agree. Liverpool will be well ahead.
Can second place with 81 points really be considered mediocre though? Has the bar been raised that high? I'm sure City targeted higher, but they were better than mediocre.
In terms of the squad, money, facilities and supposedly great manager they have, plus the fact the standard of the teams in the PL aren't great, then yes, they were mediocre.
City should be doing better.
Pep inherited Aguero, Silva, De Bruyne, Sterling & Fernandinho and has spent over £750m on players since he arrived.
If you can't win it, you can only finish 2nd. Bar his first season he's only not finished in the Top 2 once and that was also the only time his career he finished a season without winning something?
Guardiola gets a rough ride by Utd and Liverpool fans, not entirely sure why. But to say City should be doing better? Its 3 games in. Actually, 2 for them.
City should be doing much better. As someone said Guardiola inherited world class attacking talent,all he needed to do was assemble a half-decent defence. He has utterly failed to do so despite wasting hundreds of millions.
Should have lost his job years ago.
Two league titles in four season is the bare minimum you'd have expected from Guardiola, especially with none of Manchester City's rivals being very good when he came in, he came in at a low ebb for the Premier League
He has been a failure in Europe, there's no getting away from it, and it looks unlikely he will turn things around, Manchester City look miles off where they were 18 months ago, I think he'll be gone inside a year anyway
His style has become too intense and robotic, he doesn't encourage on-pitch leadership whereas Klopp does, the personality and joy flows out of the Liverpool players whereas City have become a team of faceless, miserable automatons
He has been well overshadowed by Klopp and Liverpool at this stage
Quote from: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 02:37:35 PM
Two league titles in four season is the bare minimum you'd have expected from Guardiola, especially with none of Manchester City's rivals being very good when he came in, he came in at a low ebb for the Premier League
He has been a failure in Europe, there's no getting away from it, and it looks unlikely he will turn things around, Manchester City look miles off where they were 18 months ago, I think he'll be gone inside a year anyway
His style has become too intense and robotic, he doesn't encourage on-pitch leadership whereas Klopp does, the personality and joy flows out of the Liverpool players whereas City have become a team of faceless, miserable automatons
He has been well overshadowed by Klopp and Liverpool at this stage
Football tends to go in cycles....Klopp undoubtedly is on the crest of the wave. But that wave has been two seasons long.
Guardiola has been at the top table for well over a decade now, started his management career much later to boot. It would be foolish to write him off. Your points about leadership on the City team are fair enough, no one club should look to (on the outside anyway) suffer when such a leader like Kompany goes.
We are only starting a strange new season as we've seen already, I don't think the obituaries for Pep are needed just yet. Lets remember they were written for Brendan Rodgers just over a month ago and now he's smashed City in their own back yard to look every inch the top level manager.
Manchester City finished 18 points off 1st last season, their title challenge was as good as over in December. Knocked out of the FA Cup by average Arsenal side and Lyon far from the best in France knocked them out of Europe. To say Guardiola should be doing better is a bit of understatement.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 29, 2020, 02:51:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 02:37:35 PM
Two league titles in four season is the bare minimum you'd have expected from Guardiola, especially with none of Manchester City's rivals being very good when he came in, he came in at a low ebb for the Premier League
He has been a failure in Europe, there's no getting away from it, and it looks unlikely he will turn things around, Manchester City look miles off where they were 18 months ago, I think he'll be gone inside a year anyway
His style has become too intense and robotic, he doesn't encourage on-pitch leadership whereas Klopp does, the personality and joy flows out of the Liverpool players whereas City have become a team of faceless, miserable automatons
He has been well overshadowed by Klopp and Liverpool at this stage
Football tends to go in cycles....Klopp undoubtedly is on the crest of the wave. But that wave has been two seasons long.
Guardiola has been at the top table for well over a decade now, started his management career much later to boot. It would be foolish to write him off. Your points about leadership on the City team are fair enough, no one club should look to (on the outside anyway) suffer when such a leader like Kompany goes.
We are only starting a strange new season as we've seen already, I don't think the obituaries for Pep are needed just yet. Lets remember they were written for Brendan Rodgers just over a month ago and now he's smashed City in their own back yard to look every inch the top level manager.
Has he though?
Barcelona won CL in 06, so they were hardly in the doldrums, and they were there or thereabouts in the CL the two seasons before he came in. Big Sam could have won what Pep won with that Barcelona side. He inherited one of the best club sides in history.
He went to Bayern with a bagful of money. A Bayern side who were CL winners the season before and were the top team in Germany for maybe 20 years. He never got close to a CL with them. A couple of leagues, but that's a minimum requirement there.
Same with City. I don't believe he got as far in CL as Pellegrini did. And City have been poor in Europe. A couple of PL's he's won, but with all that money and players at his disposal, it's the absolute minimum you'd expect.
Until he drags a team from mid table and limited resources to success, the jury is still out on Pep.
Quote from: BennyCake on September 29, 2020, 03:55:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 29, 2020, 02:51:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 02:37:35 PM
Two league titles in four season is the bare minimum you'd have expected from Guardiola, especially with none of Manchester City's rivals being very good when he came in, he came in at a low ebb for the Premier League
He has been a failure in Europe, there's no getting away from it, and it looks unlikely he will turn things around, Manchester City look miles off where they were 18 months ago, I think he'll be gone inside a year anyway
His style has become too intense and robotic, he doesn't encourage on-pitch leadership whereas Klopp does, the personality and joy flows out of the Liverpool players whereas City have become a team of faceless, miserable automatons
He has been well overshadowed by Klopp and Liverpool at this stage
Football tends to go in cycles....Klopp undoubtedly is on the crest of the wave. But that wave has been two seasons long.
Guardiola has been at the top table for well over a decade now, started his management career much later to boot. It would be foolish to write him off. Your points about leadership on the City team are fair enough, no one club should look to (on the outside anyway) suffer when such a leader like Kompany goes.
We are only starting a strange new season as we've seen already, I don't think the obituaries for Pep are needed just yet. Lets remember they were written for Brendan Rodgers just over a month ago and now he's smashed City in their own back yard to look every inch the top level manager.
Has he though?
Barcelona won CL in 06, so they were hardly in the doldrums, and they were there or thereabouts in the CL the two seasons before he came in. Big Sam could have won what Pep won with that Barcelona side. He inherited one of the best club sides in history.
He went to Bayern with a bagful of money. A Bayern side who were CL winners the season before and were the top team in Germany for maybe 20 years. He never got close to a CL with them. A couple of leagues, but that's a minimum requirement there.
Same with City. I don't believe he got as far in CL as Pellegrini did. And City have been poor in Europe. A couple of PL's he's won, but with all that money and players at his disposal, it's the absolute minimum you'd expect.
Until he drags a team from mid table and limited resources to success, the jury is still out on Pep.
Ah now come on. True, he inherited a good team, but you have to remember it was he who dumped Eto'o, Deco and for me the greatest of them all, Ronaldinho out on their holes. Back then he was called a maniac, a mad man. That was a seriously brave call by a young, inexperienced coach (I think he had done one year at Barca B prior).
He inherited good players of course, but the decisions he made set Barca on course to be probably one of the greatest club sides in history. He brought in Busquets, Pedro etc from the Youth Set up and basically cleaned Barcelona up from top to bottom.
What Guardiola did at Barca often gets the "ah sure they were good anyway" thing. Messi was only arriving onto the scene, of course having such a generational talent helps grease the wheels but the man arguably laid the foundations for both Barcelona the Club and indirectly Spain the Country to be the most dominant forces at that time. Could we make the argument Messi would have have been as good unless he had that exact coach, at that exact time?
We always hear the until he does so and so the jury is out. But when has a manager of that reputation ever dipped down to a level below when he hasn't needed to?
Guardiola isn't without his flaws, obviously no UCL at Bayern and City as yet will be the stick to beat him but that is the beauty of the European Cup - sometimes even when you totally deserve it, it's still a Cup competition.
Given his resources the only true benchmark to measure success for Guardiola is the Champions League. City have made little if any headway in his time in the CL. Not just the past few weeks, but for a number of seasons there have been questions over Pep. He set himself high standards to reach from his time at Barcelona, but the fact that he didn't take Bayern and now City within a mile of winning the CL, will gnaw away at him privately.
Guardiola is a chequebook manager. He doesn't even compare to Klopp.
Different managers are cut out for different levels and ego is a massive part of that, to manage at the real top level yu have to have total certainty in yourself and an ego to match, for example it became apparent very quickly that David Moyes didn't have that
Solskjaer doesn't have it either, neither does Lampard for all his front
The notion that Sam Allardyce would have done what Guardiola did with Barcelona is laughable
Guardiola will never manage a Burnley for the same reason Michael Schumacher didn't drive a Minardi
Guardiola's style was designed for the very top end of the game, it was designed to produce relentless winning machines who totally destroyed opponents, it was almost an intellectual exercise, a sort of grand football plan like Baron Haussman's idea to rebuild Paris
He is still able to produce relentless winning machines, and did it with Manchester City for two years, but what he demands of players, and of himself, is so draining that it seems it can only be sustained for a reasonably short period of time
At Barcelona that was three years, Bayern three, he's now over four years into it at Manchester City which is longer than he spent with either Barcelona or Bayern
And his failings in European ties are consistent
Over the last seven years he has consistently found new and more hilarious ways to lose
He is a genius, but the very intensity that produces winning machines in the league means he overthinks things in big cup matches
His leaders have always been inherited, but he doesn't sign leaders
Vincent Kompany's worth to Manchester City was incalculable
He dislikes personality and prefers roboticism, and in big cup matches that's a serious drawback
You could even see it as far back as that semi-final against Chelsea in 2009 when Barcelona spent 92 minutes banging their heads off a brick wall before one mistake by a Chelsea player set up the chance for Iniesta
Even in 2011, their absolute peak, Barcelona were one gilt edged Nicklas Bendtner chance away from elimination
I don't think he'll get Manchester City back to where they were, the fire has burned out there and I don't think he's a repair man
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 06:07:02 PM
Guardiola is a chequebook manager. He doesn't even compare to Klopp.
He isn't that at all, he's a coach, his signings have very often let him down, his main players have nearly always been inherited, he's quite poor in the transfer market
He's very good at coming into an already very good team and turning them into a relentless winning machine in a league situation but he seems to completely lose his marbles in high pressure cup situations
Quote from: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 06:25:03 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 06:07:02 PM
Guardiola is a chequebook manager. He doesn't even compare to Klopp.
He isn't that at all, he's a coach, his signings have very often let him down, his main players have nearly always been inherited, he's quite poor in the transfer market
He's very good at coming into an already very good team and turning them into a relentless winning machine in a league situation but he seems to completely lose his marbles in high pressure cup situations
He is absolutely a chequebook manager, look what he has spent. Anyone could've won trophies with the teams he's managed.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 06:36:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 06:25:03 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 06:07:02 PM
Guardiola is a chequebook manager. He doesn't even compare to Klopp.
He isn't that at all, he's a coach, his signings have very often let him down, his main players have nearly always been inherited, he's quite poor in the transfer market
He's very good at coming into an already very good team and turning them into a relentless winning machine in a league situation but he seems to completely lose his marbles in high pressure cup situations
He is absolutely a chequebook manager, look what he has spent. Anyone could've won trophies with the teams he's managed.
Go through his career, his key players have rarely been big signings, they have usually been inherited
Anyway, hope for the rest - Thiago Alcantara has tested positive for Covid
So Guardiolas not very good now, some of you boys shouldn't be let on the internet :)
Jesus lads I watched a bit of that game last night and I have to say it's brutal to watch. In general soccer is away to the dogs. No challenges, players paid a fortune, VAR, the list goes on. Brutal
Quote from: Boycey on September 29, 2020, 06:46:32 PM
So Guardiolas not very good now, some of you boys shouldn't be let on the internet :)
Not really no. This narrative that he's a good manager because he has won with the best squad of players in each country he has been in with a blank chequebook is laughable.
He should go and manage the likes of Atletico Madrid, Arsenal, Lyon/Marseille or AC Milan, and prove himself like Klopp has done, but he won't, because only goes to the top team with a blank chequebook. Juve or PSG will be next for him i'd imagine.
Hope that helps Boycey.
Quote from: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 06:21:25 PM
He dislikes personality and prefers roboticism, and in big cup matches that's a serious drawback
Wasn't a drawback for Jim Gavin but I suppose GAA management is a bit different than trying to manage overpaid professionals across the water.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 07:11:49 PM
Quote from: Boycey on September 29, 2020, 06:46:32 PM
So Guardiolas not very good now, some of you boys shouldn't be let on the internet :)
Not really no. This narrative that he's a good manager because he has won with the best squad of players in each country he has been in with a blank chequebook is laughable.
He should go and manage the likes of Atletico Madrid, Arsenal, Lyon/Marseille or AC Milan, and prove himself like Klopp has done, but he won't, because only goes to the top team with a blank chequebook. Juve or PSG will be next for him i'd imagine.
Hope that helps Boycey.
He needs to prove himself ;D
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 07:11:49 PM
Quote from: Boycey on September 29, 2020, 06:46:32 PM
So Guardiolas not very good now, some of you boys shouldn't be let on the internet :)
Not really no. This narrative that he's a good manager because he has won with the best squad of players in each country he has been in with a blank chequebook is laughable.
He should go and manage the likes of Atletico Madrid, Arsenal, Lyon/Marseille or AC Milan, and prove himself like Klopp has done, but he won't, because only goes to the top team with a blank chequebook. Juve or PSG will be next for him i'd imagine.
Hope that helps Boycey.
jeez man, you'd think the way you were talking klopp has done it on a shoestring. Pep has spent lots of money, so has klopp, Klopp spent massive money sorting out his goalkeeper and defence. City have played 2 games, bit early to write the obituary yet.
Guardiola had City playing truly exceptional football two seasons ago. I wondered at the time how he managed to keep a bunch of spoiled, pampered millionaires so tuned in and committed.
Turns out it didn't happen like that. As soon as Liverpool challenged their performance levels and made it into a scrap, they were found wanting.
But the same thing will happen to Liverpool sooner or later. Maybe this season, maybe next. A bunch of pampered twats in all reality probably won't like it when they have to knock their pans out in order to stay on top, and a couple of injuries later and a couple of defeats later, they are reined back into being a good team, not a great one.
The key to all of this is of course what Fergie did at United, and turn the team over completely every 3-4 years. But people forget that Fergie did throw in some lean years (in a less competitive league) doing this too.
FWIW both Koop and Guardiola are fanaatic managers. The ability to coach and coerce The highest ego of horrible **** footballers to play in a system and work hard for 90 mins is a rare, rare gift.
Quote from: thewobbler on September 29, 2020, 07:37:35 PM
Guardiola had City playing truly exceptional football two seasons ago. I wondered at the time how he managed to keep a bunch of spoiled, pampered millionaires so tuned in and committed.
Turns out it didn't happen like that. As soon as Liverpool challenged their performance levels and made it into a scrap, they were found wanting.
But the same thing will happen to Liverpool sooner or later. Maybe this season, maybe next. A bunch of pampered twats in all reality probably won't like it when they have to knock their pans out in order to stay on top, and a couple of injuries later and a couple of defeats later, they are reined back into being a good team, not a great one.
The key to all of this is of course what Fergie did at United, and turn the team over completely every 3-4 years. But people forget that Fergie did throw in some lean years (in a less competitive league) doing this too.
FWIW both Koop and Guardiola are fanaatic managers. The ability to coach and coerce The highest ego of horrible **** footballers to play in a system and work hard for 90 mins is a rare, rare gift.
You don't have much for pro-footballers, do you? ;D :P
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 06:07:02 PM
Guardiola is a chequebook manager. He doesn't even compare to Klopp.
I mean this one says it all. Klopp was fairly average in England until......yep, you guessed it, splashed the cash.
Both have been successful in England and in their careers, both are exceptional managers, but lets call a spade a spade.
Quote from: Boycey on September 29, 2020, 07:28:04 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 07:11:49 PM
Quote from: Boycey on September 29, 2020, 06:46:32 PM
So Guardiolas not very good now, some of you boys shouldn't be let on the internet :)
Not really no. This narrative that he's a good manager because he has won with the best squad of players in each country he has been in with a blank chequebook is laughable.
He should go and manage the likes of Atletico Madrid, Arsenal, Lyon/Marseille or AC Milan, and prove himself like Klopp has done, but he won't, because only goes to the top team with a blank chequebook. Juve or PSG will be next for him i'd imagine.
Hope that helps Boycey.
He needs to prove himself ;D
I agree, he does.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 09:04:47 PM
Quote from: Boycey on September 29, 2020, 07:28:04 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 07:11:49 PM
Quote from: Boycey on September 29, 2020, 06:46:32 PM
So Guardiolas not very good now, some of you boys shouldn't be let on the internet :)
Not really no. This narrative that he's a good manager because he has won with the best squad of players in each country he has been in with a blank chequebook is laughable.
He should go and manage the likes of Atletico Madrid, Arsenal, Lyon/Marseille or AC Milan, and prove himself like Klopp has done, but he won't, because only goes to the top team with a blank chequebook. Juve or PSG will be next for him i'd imagine.
Hope that helps Boycey.
He needs to prove himself ;D
I agree, he does.
I'll mark you down as one to avoid in football conversations
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 29, 2020, 08:48:41 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 06:07:02 PM
Guardiola is a chequebook manager. He doesn't even compare to Klopp.
I mean this one says it all. Klopp was fairly average in England until......yep, you guessed it, splashed the cash.
Both have been successful in England and in their careers, both are exceptional managers, but lets call a spade a spade.
Lets call a spade a spade. Klopp wasn't fairly average before he "splashed the cash". He got a Liverpool team from Rodgers that were in mid table and got the same team back into the top 4 and to a league cup final.
He then signed Van dijk and got them to a Champions League final. Add Alisson to that and they win it the following year.
Guardiola has spent about a billion quid at man city and about half of that is on defenders. Klopp's net spend at Liverpool is about 1/10 of that of Man City's. So lets call a spade a spade.
Quote from: Boycey on September 29, 2020, 09:07:54 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 09:04:47 PM
Quote from: Boycey on September 29, 2020, 07:28:04 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 07:11:49 PM
Quote from: Boycey on September 29, 2020, 06:46:32 PM
So Guardiolas not very good now, some of you boys shouldn't be let on the internet :)
Not really no. This narrative that he's a good manager because he has won with the best squad of players in each country he has been in with a blank chequebook is laughable.
He should go and manage the likes of Atletico Madrid, Arsenal, Lyon/Marseille or AC Milan, and prove himself like Klopp has done, but he won't, because only goes to the top team with a blank chequebook. Juve or PSG will be next for him i'd imagine.
Hope that helps Boycey.
He needs to prove himself ;D
I agree, he does.
I'll mark you down as one to avoid in football conversations
Good man, save me wasting my time spelling it out for you.
Quote from: thewobbler on September 29, 2020, 07:37:35 PM
Guardiola had City playing truly exceptional football two seasons ago. I wondered at the time how he managed to keep a bunch of spoiled, pampered millionaires so tuned in and committed.
Turns out it didn't happen like that. As soon as Liverpool challenged their performance levels and made it into a scrap, they were found wanting.
That isn't true at all
Manchester City were seven points down at Christmas 2018
They won their last 13 games of that season to win the league by one point
Quote from: Captain Obvious on September 29, 2020, 07:23:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 06:21:25 PM
He dislikes personality and prefers roboticism, and in big cup matches that's a serious drawback
Wasn't a drawback for Jim Gavin but I suppose GAA management is a bit different than trying to manage overpaid professionals across the water.
Jim Gavin never discouraged personality in his players, he encouraged it
There were huge personalities in that Dublin team - Connolly, McCaffrey, McManaman, Brogan, Cooper, McMahon, Cluxton - Gavin was not afraid to bring back Connolly last year, it took balls to do that
But they were very varied personalities - and those personalities always had to operate within the framework of the team
Personality has to be nudged in the right direction
That's what Klopp does and it's what Gavin did
It's when you get those mixtures of personalities all pulling together that you get a potent force - a dressing room is an eco-system - you need a mixture of personalities - and I think it's in knockout games that you see that come to the fore most
I don't think Guardiola encourages that mixture of personalities, he wants everybody to be the same - that can work for a while, and it always does for him because he is an exceptional coach on the football side of things - but in the long run, it seems to lead to burnout
That's why I say Kompany was a huge loss, because he provided something different in terms of personality, he was their true leader, their Brian Dooher, and when he went, there was nobody left to replace him
Puyol was similar at Barca
In a different way Guardiola's teams also sort of remind me of Kerry 2000-2011
Extremely consistent and much too good for most teams, but when they met a formidable opponent who had serious on field leaders who would not be cowed, they tended to come undone
Whereas Gavin's teams always won the matches that really counted, bar the Donegal aberration in 2014 - because they combined consistency and class with superior on-field leadership
I think Klopp encourages on-field leadership and personality much more so than Guardiola and that's why Liverpool have moved far ahead
It also makes for a happier camp, you can tell players love playing for Klopp, he's a players' man
Guardiola isn't a players' man, Mourinho sort of used to be in his Chelsea and Inter days but long ago lost that touch and for the last decade has been misery and paranoia personified
Guardiola is an extremely intense coach who challenges players hugely but in a different way to Klopp I think - it seems more of a grind - Klopp is more likeable on a basic personality level, he has a gift
You're very right Sid.
My angle is more that they were on this other world level in league football that season, and when Liverpool came along and matched them blow for blow, they weren't bothered initially - but they hadnt the heart needed for a relentless drive the following season.
Quote from: thewobbler on September 29, 2020, 10:01:23 PM
You're very right Sid.
My angle is more that they were on this other world level in league football that season, and when Liverpool came along and matched them blow for blow, they weren't bothered initially - but they hadnt the heart needed for a relentless drive the following season.
I think that's more down to Guardiola's intensity and the loss of Vincent Kompany rather than anything else, and Liverpool were so relentless that dropped early season points that in other years would not have proved fatal did so last season
Nevertheless it was clear as the season wore on that serious cracks were emerging
The latter part of the 2018/19 season was Manchester City's true peak under Guardiola while Barcelona's true peak under Guardiola was 2010/11 culminating in that incredible performance in the final against Manchester United
But it didn't take Barcelona long to drop from that peak, they weren't the same team the following season and Guardiola himself looked burned out and resigned
Perhaps the aversion to being challenged is Guardiola's himself - his idea of football is based on total domination - it's a high end idea of football for the highest end standard - most of the time that domination happens, but when it doesn't it seems he often doesn't know what to do
His victories have generally been crushing ones where his team sweep all comers aside, but in the close battles, he doesn't have a good record
That said at least five of his Champions League exits have been in very strange and unlucky manners - Inter 2010 with the ash cloud and a disallowed goal, Chelsea 2012 when Messi missed a penalty, Atletico Madrid 2016 with another missed penalty, Tottenham 2019 with the disallowed goal at the end, and I would even throw in this year with Sterling's miss against Lyon
I think Bayern would have beaten them comfortably had they got past Lyon however
Quote from: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 09:58:56 PM
Jim Gavin never discouraged personality in his players, he encouraged it
There were huge personalities in that Dublin team - Connolly, McCaffrey, McManaman, Brogan, Cooper, McMahon, Cluxton - Gavin was not afraid to bring back Connolly last year, it took balls to do that
Off the pitch and in the dressing room I have no doubt many had big personalities however the very definition of roboticism on the field was seen in McManaman,Brogan,Cooper, McMahon,Cluxton. Cluxton remained in that mode for speeches/cup presentations.
For neutrals McCaffrey is probably Dublins most likeable player because he doesn't seem to take himself or the sport as serious as his others. Connolly was dropped because he was too much of a maverick for Gavins liking and had discipline issues. It was then smart by Jim to bring Connolly back into the panel. A diversionary sideshow was in place to take the media's full attention off the 5 in a row campaign and before making his preplanned exit he didn't want to be known as the manager that finished Connollys county career.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 09:10:12 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 29, 2020, 08:48:41 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 06:07:02 PM
Guardiola is a chequebook manager. He doesn't even compare to Klopp.
I mean this one says it all. Klopp was fairly average in England until......yep, you guessed it, splashed the cash.
Both have been successful in England and in their careers, both are exceptional managers, but lets call a spade a spade.
Lets call a spade a spade. Klopp wasn't fairly average before he "splashed the cash". He got a Liverpool team from Rodgers that were in mid table and got the same team back into the top 4 and to a league cup final.
He then signed Van dijk and got them to a Champions League final. Add Alisson to that and they win it the following year.
Guardiola has spent about a billion quid at man city and about half of that is on defenders. Klopp's net spend at Liverpool is about 1/10 of that of Man City's. So lets call a spade a spade.
This was the Rodgers team that months before had finished 2nd wasn't it?
Klopp has broke two world transfer records whilst in charge (Goalkeeper and Defender) . I don't see what the problem with pointing this out is, especially when you point out Guardiola has spent X amount on defenders, surely you can acknowledge that it's not much different to Klopp really, it would just appear Klopp signings have been more successful in the past few years.
They are both top level managers but let's disregard the propaganda that one team spends and the other doesn't.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 29, 2020, 11:53:43 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 09:10:12 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 29, 2020, 08:48:41 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 06:07:02 PM
Guardiola is a chequebook manager. He doesn't even compare to Klopp.
I mean this one says it all. Klopp was fairly average in England until......yep, you guessed it, splashed the cash.
Both have been successful in England and in their careers, both are exceptional managers, but lets call a spade a spade.
Lets call a spade a spade. Klopp wasn't fairly average before he "splashed the cash". He got a Liverpool team from Rodgers that were in mid table and got the same team back into the top 4 and to a league cup final.
He then signed Van dijk and got them to a Champions League final. Add Alisson to that and they win it the following year.
Guardiola has spent about a billion quid at man city and about half of that is on defenders. Klopp's net spend at Liverpool is about 1/10 of that of Man City's. So lets call a spade a spade.
This was the Rodgers team that months before had finished 2nd wasn't it?
Klopp has broke two world transfer records whilst in charge (Goalkeeper and Defender) . I don't see what the problem with pointing this out is, especially when you point out Guardiola has spent X amount on defenders, surely you can acknowledge that it's not much different to Klopp really, it would just appear Klopp signings have been more successful in the past few years.
They are both top level managers but let's disregard the propaganda that one team spends and the other doesn't.
There is no problem with pointing that out. The difference is that Man City's net spend is several hundreds of million larger than Liverpool's. Van Dijk and Alisson were funded by the sale of Coutinho, whereas City can spend as much as they please. That has never been the case at Liverpool. Even with Thiago and Jota, two signings who will be paid off over the next 4/5 years.
So I think it's fair to say one team spends, and it is definitely different to Klopp and Liverpool.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on September 29, 2020, 11:51:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 09:58:56 PM
Jim Gavin never discouraged personality in his players, he encouraged it
There were huge personalities in that Dublin team - Connolly, McCaffrey, McManaman, Brogan, Cooper, McMahon, Cluxton - Gavin was not afraid to bring back Connolly last year, it took balls to do that
Off the pitch and in the dressing room I have no doubt many had big personalities however the very definition of roboticism on the field was seen in McManaman,Brogan,Cooper, McMahon,Cluxton. Cluxton remained in that mode for speeches/cup presentations.
For neutrals McCaffrey is probably Dublins most likeable player because he doesn't seem to take himself or the sport as serious as his others. Connolly was dropped because he was too much of a maverick for Gavins liking and had discipline issues. It was then smart by Jim to bring Connolly back into the panel. A diversionary sideshow was in place to take the media's full attention off the 5 in a row campaign and before making his preplanned exit he didn't want to be known as the manager that finished Connollys county career.
Connolly was always a maverick, and definitely still was in the early days of Gavin's tenure - see his performance against Cork in 2013 which was comically bad, everything he tried was totally off the cuff like you'd see him do for Vincent's and it turned to ash
If a player did that under Guardiola they'd be whipped off quicksmart
But Connolly changed after that game, the Kerry game of 2013 was the first time we saw real peak Connolly where his natural flair was properly harnessed within a team framework
Connolly was still an integral part of Gavin's plans until he got suspended, by the time he came back he had missed a lot of football, a whole summer almost
But Gavin still turned to him when he needed him at half-time against Mayo
I don't think Gavin would have brought Connolly back in 2019 had he not believed he had something to offer, I don't think Gavin is sentimental like that at all
By encouraging personality I mean empowering players to take hold of the pattern of the game themselves and use their own brains to figure things out rather being slavish to a system
Dublin certainly had systems and defined tactics but I don't think they were ever totally slavish to them
Whereas I think Guardiola's teams tend to be
But then there's also the thing where Guardiola pulls a ridiculous unrehearsed tactical plan out of the bag in a knockout game and it confuses his players
Gavin never did that
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 12:37:45 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on September 29, 2020, 11:51:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 09:58:56 PM
Jim Gavin never discouraged personality in his players, he encouraged it
There were huge personalities in that Dublin team - Connolly, McCaffrey, McManaman, Brogan, Cooper, McMahon, Cluxton - Gavin was not afraid to bring back Connolly last year, it took balls to do that
Off the pitch and in the dressing room I have no doubt many had big personalities however the very definition of roboticism on the field was seen in McManaman,Brogan,Cooper, McMahon,Cluxton. Cluxton remained in that mode for speeches/cup presentations.
For neutrals McCaffrey is probably Dublins most likeable player because he doesn't seem to take himself or the sport as serious as his others. Connolly was dropped because he was too much of a maverick for Gavins liking and had discipline issues. It was then smart by Jim to bring Connolly back into the panel. A diversionary sideshow was in place to take the media's full attention off the 5 in a row campaign and before making his preplanned exit he didn't want to be known as the manager that finished Connollys county career.
Connolly was always a maverick, and definitely still was in the early days of Gavin's tenure - see his performance against Cork in 2013 which was comically bad, everything he tried was totally off the cuff like you'd see him do for Vincent's and it turned to ash
If a player did that under Guardiola they'd be whipped off quicksmart
But Connolly changed after that game, the Kerry game of 2013 was the first time we saw real peak Connolly where his natural flair was properly harnessed within a team framework
Connolly was still an integral part of Gavin's plans until he got suspended, by the time he came back he had missed a lot of football, a whole summer almost
But Gavin still turned to him when he needed him at half-time against Mayo
I don't think Gavin would have brought Connolly back in 2019 had he not believed he had something to offer, I don't think Gavin is sentimental like that at all
By encouraging personality I mean empowering players to take hold of the pattern of the game themselves and use their own brains to figure things out rather being slavish to a system
Dublin certainly had systems and defined tactics but I don't think they were ever totally slavish to them
Whereas I think Guardiola's teams tend to be
But then there's also the thing where Guardiola pulls a ridiculous unrehearsed tactical plan out of the bag in a knockout game and it confuses his players
Gavin never did that
Connollys most off the cuff moment was in the 77th minute of the 2016 All Ireland final. Dublin just needed to play keep ball instead he decided to go for a daft sideline kick. From the resulting kick out Mayo got a point and a replay.
That type of play was hardly encouraged under Gavin.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on September 30, 2020, 01:30:51 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 12:37:45 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on September 29, 2020, 11:51:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 09:58:56 PM
Jim Gavin never discouraged personality in his players, he encouraged it
There were huge personalities in that Dublin team - Connolly, McCaffrey, McManaman, Brogan, Cooper, McMahon, Cluxton - Gavin was not afraid to bring back Connolly last year, it took balls to do that
Off the pitch and in the dressing room I have no doubt many had big personalities however the very definition of roboticism on the field was seen in McManaman,Brogan,Cooper, McMahon,Cluxton. Cluxton remained in that mode for speeches/cup presentations.
For neutrals McCaffrey is probably Dublins most likeable player because he doesn't seem to take himself or the sport as serious as his others. Connolly was dropped because he was too much of a maverick for Gavins liking and had discipline issues. It was then smart by Jim to bring Connolly back into the panel. A diversionary sideshow was in place to take the media's full attention off the 5 in a row campaign and before making his preplanned exit he didn't want to be known as the manager that finished Connollys county career.
Connolly was always a maverick, and definitely still was in the early days of Gavin's tenure - see his performance against Cork in 2013 which was comically bad, everything he tried was totally off the cuff like you'd see him do for Vincent's and it turned to ash
If a player did that under Guardiola they'd be whipped off quicksmart
But Connolly changed after that game, the Kerry game of 2013 was the first time we saw real peak Connolly where his natural flair was properly harnessed within a team framework
Connolly was still an integral part of Gavin's plans until he got suspended, by the time he came back he had missed a lot of football, a whole summer almost
But Gavin still turned to him when he needed him at half-time against Mayo
I don't think Gavin would have brought Connolly back in 2019 had he not believed he had something to offer, I don't think Gavin is sentimental like that at all
By encouraging personality I mean empowering players to take hold of the pattern of the game themselves and use their own brains to figure things out rather being slavish to a system
Dublin certainly had systems and defined tactics but I don't think they were ever totally slavish to them
Whereas I think Guardiola's teams tend to be
But then there's also the thing where Guardiola pulls a ridiculous unrehearsed tactical plan out of the bag in a knockout game and it confuses his players
Gavin never did that
Connollys most off the cuff moment was in the 77th minute of the 2016 All Ireland final. Dublin just needed to play keep ball instead he decided to go for a daft sideline kick. From the resulting kick out Mayo got a point and a replay.
That type of play was hardly encouraged under Gavin.
There probably isn't a manager in the game who would have encouraged that particular piece of play
I wouldn't say it was off the cuff, it was pure confidence that "this is my ball and I'm going for it", others may call it selfishness or gloryhunting
But that's why Dermo was what he was and why he is so loved by Dublin supporters
Joe Brolly broke through one on one in the 70th minute of the 1998 Ulster final with the game level, instead of fisting it over the bar he went for goal and stuck it in
Donegal got one further point
Dara McGarty got through one on one for Sligo against Armagh in 2002 but fisted the equalising point instead of burying it in the net, Sligo lost the replay
Sometimes the percentage play is not the right one
Dublin won the replay in 2016 and Dermo stuck the penalty in the net, I think he's the only Dublin player to put away penalties in big championship matches since 1983
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 01:58:55 AM
There probably isn't a manager in the game who would have encouraged that particular piece of play
I wouldn't say it was off the cuff, it was pure confidence that "this is my ball and I'm going for it", others may call it selfishness or gloryhunting
But that's why Dermo was what he was and why he is so loved by Dublin supporters
I'd think the opposite on managers. Risk taking is required in matches from players however leading a match deep into injury time is not a time to take risks.
It was as off the cuff situation as it gets. Gavin wouldn't have been too pleased especially when Connolly grabbed the ball out of Kilkennys hands and pushed him away for such a pop shot.
No such moment was repeated in the 2017 final against Mayo as Dublin played keep ball until the final whistle.
This is absolute nonsense.
Quote from: thewobbler on September 29, 2020, 10:01:23 PM
You're very right Sid.
My angle is more that they were on this other world level in league football that season, and when Liverpool came along and matched them blow for blow, they weren't bothered initially - but they hadnt the heart needed for a relentless drive the following season.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 29, 2020, 11:53:43 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 09:10:12 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 29, 2020, 08:48:41 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 06:07:02 PM
Guardiola is a chequebook manager. He doesn't even compare to Klopp.
I mean this one says it all. Klopp was fairly average in England until......yep, you guessed it, splashed the cash.
Both have been successful in England and in their careers, both are exceptional managers, but lets call a spade a spade.
Lets call a spade a spade. Klopp wasn't fairly average before he "splashed the cash". He got a Liverpool team from Rodgers that were in mid table and got the same team back into the top 4 and to a league cup final.
He then signed Van dijk and got them to a Champions League final. Add Alisson to that and they win it the following year.
Guardiola has spent about a billion quid at man city and about half of that is on defenders. Klopp's net spend at Liverpool is about 1/10 of that of Man City's. So lets call a spade a spade.
This was the Rodgers team that months before had finished 2nd wasn't it?
Klopp has broke two world transfer records whilst in charge (Goalkeeper and Defender) . I don't see what the problem with pointing this out is, especially when you point out Guardiola has spent X amount on defenders, surely you can acknowledge that it's not much different to Klopp really, it would just appear Klopp signings have been more successful in the past few years.
They are both top level managers but let's disregard the propaganda that one team spends and the other doesn't.
The team Rodgers left had finished second 17 months before Klopp came in. And three of it's most important players were already gone. Liverpool were on their knees by that stage, with Rodgers not knowing WTF to do with Firmino, and Benteke hopelessly ill-matched to the team's strengths. Throw in Danny Ings going down with a cruciate in Klopp's first week, and what Klopp took over was very mediocre.
It is not propaganda to talk about what the two managers spend. Yes, Klopp had to spend big on two players to give the team the final leg up, but he also bought extremely well and molded what he inherited and relatively modest purchases into what became a world class team. You didn't see Pep having to rely on the likes of Ragnar Klavans or Simon Mignolets for significant portions of his reign.
That's my point in calling a spade a spade here. Both managers have spent money to "buy success". Every manager spends money.
The crux is people consider Klopp a greater manager than Guardiola is due to him spending less for his success then. Which is fair enough, I can see that argument but I wasn't having this Klopp hasn't spent anything line when you can reel off two world transfer fees for two positions ones at him.
For me Klopp has been the greater manager in England, he's the greater manager right now. But Guardiola has had a much better career. That era at Barca when his team basically changed football, we haven't seen a period like that since, hence why I find it strange that he's being consigned to history here.
Very happy with the Ross Barkley loan deal. He obviously feels he isn't going to get a crack at it with Chelsea. With big spending comes big pressure for Frank.
Liverpool exceptionally well run which has allowed to buy a few players for huge money but Klopp has a record in the transfer market which we haven't seen since Fergie & Wenger in his prime.
Liverpools ability to achieve excellent transfer fees for players not good enough for them is the reason why Klopp has been backed so well when required.
It was going to take something special for Liverpool to win a title in an era when United/City/Chelsea had so much money.
Quote from: lurganblue on September 30, 2020, 11:20:47 AM
Very happy with the Ross Barkley loan deal. He obviously feels he isn't going to get a crack at it with Chelsea. With big spending comes big pressure for Frank.
Just for the minute, wait to Sancho moves to United....it'll be Operation Target Solskjear in the media thereafter.
Quote from: lurganblue on September 30, 2020, 11:20:47 AM
Very happy with the Ross Barkley loan deal. He obviously feels he isn't going to get a crack at it with Chelsea. With big spending comes big pressure for Frank.
Villa well covered across the park now, with the exception of left back. A target of 50 points is very realistic.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 30, 2020, 09:07:41 AM
That's my point in calling a spade a spade here. Both managers have spent money to "buy success". Every manager spends money.
The crux is people consider Klopp a greater manager than Guardiola is due to him spending less for his success then. Which is fair enough, I can see that argument but I wasn't having this Klopp hasn't spent anything line when you can reel off two world transfer fees for two positions ones at him.
For me Klopp has been the greater manager in England, he's the greater manager right now. But Guardiola has had a much better career. That era at Barca when his team basically changed football, we haven't seen a period like that since, hence why I find it strange that he's being consigned to history here.
https://www.football365.com/news/feature-man-city-spend-on-defenders-pep-guardiola-428m-man-utd-liverpool-arsenal-spurs-chelsea
When you look at figures like these you appreciate how good Klopp is.
Chelsea have fairly opened the purse;
CHELSEA
INS:
Hakim Ziyech (£36m, Ajax),
Timo Werner (£47.7m, Leipzig),
Xavier Mbuyumba (free, Barcelona),
Ben Chilwell (£45m, Leicester),
Malang Sarr (free, Nice),
Thiago Silva (free, PSG),
Kai Havertz (£71m, Bayer Leverkusen),
Edouard Mendy (£22m, Rennes).
Over £200M of Romans hard earned sponduloks. Frank better get his hands on some silverware and/or get a top 4 finish.
I don't understand how he can't at least bring someone in to teach them how to defend set pieces. If he doesn't sort this out then any well drilled team have every chance of beating Chelsea and they'll go nowhere. At the minute I suspect they could well be going nowhere. I don't like Chelsea but I do like Lampard so hope he scrapes top 4 lol.
Quote from: johnnycool on September 30, 2020, 01:22:54 PM
Chelsea have fairly opened the purse;
CHELSEA
INS:
Hakim Ziyech (£36m, Ajax),
Timo Werner (£47.7m, Leipzig),
Xavier Mbuyumba (free, Barcelona),
Ben Chilwell (£45m, Leicester),
Malang Sarr (free, Nice),
Thiago Silva (free, PSG),
Kai Havertz (£71m, Bayer Leverkusen),
Edouard Mendy (£22m, Rennes).
Over £200M of Romans hard earned sponduloks. Frank better get his hands on some silverware and/or get a top 4 finish.
Chilwell is very good. But then you see that Leicester took that £45m and used 'just' £18m of it to buy Castagne to replace Chilwell. Castagne, albeit on a small sample size of Premier League games, has looked brilliant.
Also, "hard earned" ;D. Yeltsin's loans for shares scheme wasn't exactly hard work for those who benefited!
Going by Leicester fans on Twitter and radio they weren't too bothered about losing Chilwell to Chelsea and delighted to get as much for him. Or Decent enough player but he's a definite upgrade defensively than Alonso.
Quote from: johnnycool on September 30, 2020, 01:22:54 PM
Chelsea have fairly opened the purse;
CHELSEA
INS:
Hakim Ziyech (£36m, Ajax),
Timo Werner (£47.7m, Leipzig),
Xavier Mbuyumba (free, Barcelona),
Ben Chilwell (£45m, Leicester),
Malang Sarr (free, Nice),
Thiago Silva (free, PSG),
Kai Havertz (£71m, Bayer Leverkusen),
Edouard Mendy (£22m, Rennes).
Over £200M of Romans hard earned sponduloks. Frank better get his hands on some silverware and/or get a top 4 finish.
All very well bringing in new players but they still have a rookie manager in charge.
Quote from: Armamike on September 30, 2020, 04:26:12 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 30, 2020, 01:22:54 PM
Chelsea have fairly opened the purse;
CHELSEA
INS:
Hakim Ziyech (£36m, Ajax),
Timo Werner (£47.7m, Leipzig),
Xavier Mbuyumba (free, Barcelona),
Ben Chilwell (£45m, Leicester),
Malang Sarr (free, Nice),
Thiago Silva (free, PSG),
Kai Havertz (£71m, Bayer Leverkusen),
Edouard Mendy (£22m, Rennes).
Over £200M of Romans hard earned sponduloks. Frank better get his hands on some silverware and/or get a top 4 finish.
All very well bringing in new players but they still have a rookie manager in charge.
Depends on the quality of the manager. Zidane was rookie when he took on the Real Madrid job in 2016.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on September 30, 2020, 04:41:06 PM
Quote from: Armamike on September 30, 2020, 04:26:12 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 30, 2020, 01:22:54 PM
Chelsea have fairly opened the purse;
CHELSEA
INS:
Hakim Ziyech (£36m, Ajax),
Timo Werner (£47.7m, Leipzig),
Xavier Mbuyumba (free, Barcelona),
Ben Chilwell (£45m, Leicester),
Malang Sarr (free, Nice),
Thiago Silva (free, PSG),
Kai Havertz (£71m, Bayer Leverkusen),
Edouard Mendy (£22m, Rennes).
Over £200M of Romans hard earned sponduloks. Frank better get his hands on some silverware and/or get a top 4 finish.
All very well bringing in new players but they still have a rookie manager in charge.
Depends on the quality of the manager. Zidane was rookie when he took on the Real Madrid job in 2016.
Zidane is a bizarre case
I don't believe he would do well in any other managerial job other than Real Madrid or perhaps the French national team
His major asset as a manager is that he is Zinedine Zidane and that he has a chilled out personality
That makes him ideal for being a faciliatator for a team made up of some of the world's best players
The mere fact of him being Zinedine Zidane carries immense authority, he was the ideal person to handle the ego of Cristiano Ronaldo, because Ronaldo respected him
Juventus are betting on Pirlo being another Zidane, coincidentally Ronaldo is at Juventus now
Zidane wasn't that much of a chilled out character when he head butted thon Italian dude!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 30, 2020, 09:59:47 PM
Zidane wasn't that much of a chilled out character when he head butted thon Italian dude!
He's Zen-edine Zidane now
Leeds deserved that draw and could have won. Manchester City going on this form won't be mounting a title challenge.
All Merseyside title race the year so.
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 03, 2020, 07:39:30 PM
All Merseyside title race the year so.
Pickford will prove to be their Karius. The natural order of things will be returned by Christmas.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 03, 2020, 08:48:27 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 03, 2020, 07:39:30 PM
All Merseyside title race the year so.
Pickford will prove to be their Karius. The natural order of things will be returned by Christmas.
Fair point. The man must have naked photos of Southgate.
Frank Lampard's signings are Football Manager esque transfer business. Gossip column purchases under a manager who has so far not portrayed any capability as a manager in the Prem League. Media like him because he is English and his achievements as a player but that will soon fade. He has severe limitations and already his interviews are littered with excuses and 'appeal for time' style statements. He and Solksjaer are poor managers at this level and their teams do not play with any noticeable identity.
Compare this with what Arteta has done at Arsenal already in his short time there. There is a bit more going on in his brain with a vision and a plan of how to improve his players and his team.
Top 4 this season for me:
Liverpool
City
Arsenal
Leicester
Arteta has done very little at Arsenal. Alienated their only decent creative player, repeatedly played Aubameyang out of position, and persisted with Luiz and Xhaka despite awful performances.
He shouldn't have got the job in the first place and has done nothing to justify his appointment.
Leicester 5-2 away winners against Manchester City last week and today lose 3-0 at home to West Ham.
Quote from: Bronco on October 04, 2020, 11:13:44 AM
Arteta has done very little at Arsenal. Alienated their only decent creative player, repeatedly played Aubameyang out of position, and persisted with Luiz and Xhaka despite awful performances.
He shouldn't have got the job in the first place and has done nothing to justify his appointment.
Arteta has got them to some sort of defenseive competence with the players available to him and has put a bit of solidity in the team. They may have lost 3-1 to Liverpool last Monday, but they would have collapsed and lost by 5 or 6 if that was an Arsenal side in the last years of Wenger or Emery. Arteta's problem is he hasn't got the players to bring them on. Top 4 is a something to aim for this season.
Defensive competence - are you joking? They've conceded in something like 8 out of their last 9 League games.
Pretty dominant display from Arsenal, should improve on last year's position
Some top notch defending from Man United so far. Even their customary penalty not helping them today...
Quote from: Bronco on October 04, 2020, 03:53:21 PM
Defensive competence - are you joking? They've conceded in something like 8 out of their last 9 League games.
It's a new season and even though it's only 4 games in they are clearly going in the right direction. They have a clear system of play that may be limited, but that's more to do with the quality of players he has available to pick from.
Compare that to the shambles at Man Utd right now, who are trying to sign a right winger even though they haven't got a decent centre half at the club and no clear game plan going forward against defensive teams. Arsenal will probably finish above Utd this season based on the current situation
Quote from: Minus15 on October 04, 2020, 10:31:28 AM
Frank Lampard's signings are Football Manager esque transfer business. Gossip column purchases under a manager who has so far not portrayed any capability as a manager in the Prem League. Media like him because he is English and his achievements as a player but that will soon fade. He has severe limitations and already his interviews are littered with excuses and 'appeal for time' style statements. He and Solksjaer are poor managers at this level and their teams do not play with any noticeable identity.
Compare this with what Arteta has done at Arsenal already in his short time there. There is a bit more going on in his brain with a vision and a plan of how to improve his players and his team.
Top 4 this season for me:
Liverpool
City
Arsenal
Leicester
What Lampard did at Chelsea last year deserves great credit, a 4th place finish when some had speculated as low as 10th. He's only in his 3rd full season of management. Unfair to compare him to Ole, who has been a manager for many years at this stage.
If Lampard doesn't improve on 4th this year, he'll be sacked, he knows that. That's how Chelsea operate.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 04, 2020, 06:50:13 PM
Quote from: Minus15 on October 04, 2020, 10:31:28 AM
Frank Lampard's signings are Football Manager esque transfer business. Gossip column purchases under a manager who has so far not portrayed any capability as a manager in the Prem League. Media like him because he is English and his achievements as a player but that will soon fade. He has severe limitations and already his interviews are littered with excuses and 'appeal for time' style statements. He and Solksjaer are poor managers at this level and their teams do not play with any noticeable identity.
Compare this with what Arteta has done at Arsenal already in his short time there. There is a bit more going on in his brain with a vision and a plan of how to improve his players and his team.
Top 4 this season for me:
Liverpool
City
Arsenal
Leicester
What Lampard did at Chelsea last year deserves great credit, a 4th place finish when some had speculated as low as 10th. He's only in his 3rd full season of management. Unfair to compare him to Ole, who has been a manager for many years at this stage.
If Lampard doesn't improve on 4th this year, he'll be sacked, he knows that. That's how Chelsea operate.
He brought Chelsea from 3rd to 4th and won nothing unlike his predecessor. And yet he's lauded.
Everton, who were a joke not long ago, are now top of the league under Carlo Ancelotti
If people can't see the difference good managers make by now...
Lamps hasn't a clue and is also a self absorbed twat
Arteta has Arsenal going very much in the right direction, FA Cup winners already under him and have beaten all the top teams, you can see he definitely has something about him
Quote from: sid waddell on October 04, 2020, 07:08:28 PM
Everton, who were a joke not long ago, are now top of the league under Carlo Ancelotti
If people can't see the difference good managers make by now...
Lamps hasn't a clue and is also a self absorbed twat
Arteta has Arsenal going very much in the right direction, FA Cup winners already under him and have beaten all the top teams, you can see he definitely has something about him
Top of the league after 4 games is completely irrelevant.
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 04, 2020, 07:11:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 04, 2020, 07:08:28 PM
Everton, who were a joke not long ago, are now top of the league under Carlo Ancelotti
If people can't see the difference good managers make by now...
Lamps hasn't a clue and is also a self absorbed twat
Arteta has Arsenal going very much in the right direction, FA Cup winners already under him and have beaten all the top teams, you can see he definitely has something about him
Top of the league after 4 games is completely irrelevant.
Irrelevant to what?
You said tonight was a huge chance for Liverpool to go five points ahead of Manchester City
But this is only Liverpool's fourth game
So by what you say, it's irrelevant
But it isn't irrelevant
Jurgen Klopp is widely regarded as the best manager in the world right now.
I wonder if people called him clueless in those first ten years of his career when he won nothing at Mainz?
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 04, 2020, 07:17:37 PM
Jurgen Klopp is widely regarded as the best manager in the world right now.
I wonder if people called him clueless in those first ten years of his career when he won nothing at Mainz?
Comparing Lampard to Klopp as you're doing is fairly clueless
Liverpool 1-0 down at Villa Park
Adrian with a Kepa-like mistake
He'll be Villafied for that at half time
Looks like an Everton-Villa title race
No comparison made.
Just making the point it's very early in the day, management wise to be writing people off, considering.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 04, 2020, 07:17:37 PM
Jurgen Klopp is widely regarded as the best manager in the world right now.
I wonder if people called him clueless in those first ten years of his career when he won nothing at Mainz?
Mainz are a relatively small club, not one with bottomless pockets of illicitly obtained money like Chelski have. Klopp is very well thought of from his time at Mainz, and got them promoted to the Bundesliga for the first time ever.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 04, 2020, 06:50:13 PM
Quote from: Minus15 on October 04, 2020, 10:31:28 AM
Frank Lampard's signings are Football Manager esque transfer business. Gossip column purchases under a manager who has so far not portrayed any capability as a manager in the Prem League. Media like him because he is English and his achievements as a player but that will soon fade. He has severe limitations and already his interviews are littered with excuses and 'appeal for time' style statements. He and Solksjaer are poor managers at this level and their teams do not play with any noticeable identity.
Compare this with what Arteta has done at Arsenal already in his short time there. There is a bit more going on in his brain with a vision and a plan of how to improve his players and his team.
Top 4 this season for me:
Liverpool
City
Arsenal
Leicester
What Lampard did at Chelsea last year deserves great credit, a 4th place finish when some had speculated as low as 10th. He's only in his 3rd full season of management. Unfair to compare him to Ole, who has been a manager for many years at this stage.
If Lampard doesn't improve on 4th this year, he'll be sacked, he knows that. That's how Chelsea operate.
Name and shame those idiots. The lowest Chelsea was ever to finish last season was 5th. A manager in charge of a top 5 team finishing 4th in a poor quality league deserved very little credit.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 04, 2020, 07:25:26 PM
No comparison made.
Just making the point it's very early in the day, management wise to be writing people off, considering.
No comparison apart from the comparison
Lampard is in his second season, you don't get to hang around these days
He got lucky because a load of other clubs were poor last season and limped into the top four with a poor points tally
The league has a lot more depth this season and several teams have got their act together, of the clubs who would be expected to be around Chelsea's level, only Manchester United are currently a shambles
Lampard is a conceited twat and hasn't a clue how to organise a defence, he has a friendly tabloid press behind him and that colours a lot of people's views of him, it's not difficult to see whether a manager has it or doesn't, he doesn't
Chelsea have a squad which should be comfortably top 3 if not top 2 and that's how they should be judged
But they haven't a notion of challenging for the title
Should just null and void the league..
I think lampard is ok. Dunno why there is so much disdain for him. Granted he can't organise a defense and probably won't last at Chelsea but I think "conceited twat" is probably a bit harsh...
Liverpool and united both getting tanked. A good weekend.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 04, 2020, 08:56:44 PM
I think lampard is ok. Dunno why there is so much disdain for him. Granted he can't organise a defense and probably won't last at Chelsea but I think "conceited twat" is probably a bit harsh...
Liverpool and united both getting tanked. A good weekend.
Fairly ok manager had a decent season last year in tough circumstances playing attacking football playing lots of youth (not by choice). Can he prove himself? Chelsea is probably not the best place but they are giving him what he wants.
Personal attacks on him are strange, a hangover from playing days presumably.
Wow! Stunned by that Villa result. Before the game I had a small hope for a draw with the Liverpool absentees.
Magnificent stuff from Villa. From last year looking very ropey....they should be fine this year.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 04, 2020, 08:56:44 PM
I think lampard is ok. Dunno why there is so much disdain for him. Granted he can't organise a defense and probably won't last at Chelsea but I think "conceited twat" is probably a bit harsh...
Liverpool and united both getting tanked. A good weekend.
Liverpool and Manchester United were at sixes and sevens at the weekend.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 05, 2020, 10:20:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 04, 2020, 08:56:44 PM
I think lampard is ok. Dunno why there is so much disdain for him. Granted he can't organise a defense and probably won't last at Chelsea but I think "conceited twat" is probably a bit harsh...
Liverpool and united both getting tanked. A good weekend.
Liverpool and Manchester United were at sixes and sevens at the weekend.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/38069a6064edbf7d6fada1a98f96ef15/tenor.gif?itemid=5556409)
Quote from: lurganblue on October 05, 2020, 10:00:29 AM
Wow! Stunned by that Villa result. Before the game I had a small hope for a draw with the Liverpool absentees.
Not half as much as the Blue side of Brum.
Spurs have a shot this season. Bale, Son and Kane is fearsome if they stay fit.
Quote from: caprea on October 05, 2020, 11:08:01 AM
Spurs have a shot this season. Bale, Son and Kane is fearsome if they stay fit.
I agree and im a united fan there the ideal mourinho team older nucleus of pros who have a point to prove and are desperate to win something and will literally do whatever mourinho says to win
They looked good yesterday. They were very poor against Everton and Newcastle. May have a cup win in them, but can't see them with a real shot in the league.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 05, 2020, 08:11:55 PM
They looked good yesterday. They were very poor against Everton and Newcastle. May have a cup win in them, but can't see them with a real shot in the league.
And mourinho loves the cup competition he would take a cup final win in any of them
So every game in October that is not already assigned for live coverage on the usual Sky Sports, BT channels will be shown live on PPV. STG 14.95 per game is the reported price! (Although I wonder is the fact the price has been leaked rather than announced mean it's a tactic and they'll reduce it a bit to make it seem less exhorbitant)
No way i'd Pay even 10 euro a game on top of my existing Sky Sports sub.
Liverpool in the vanguard of a power grab by "The big six" Premier League clubs. United obviously up to their necks in it too.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/10/11/world-exclusive-man-utd-liverpool-driving-project-big-picture/
Quote
The proposals include:
£250 million immediately to the EFL to compensate its clubs for lost matchday revenue, deducted from future television revenue earnings and financed by a loan taken out by the Premier League
Special status for the nine longest serving clubs – and the vote of only six of those "long-term shareholders" required to make major changes, including amending rules and regulations, agreeing contracts, removal of the chief executive, and a wide-ranging veto including on club ownership
Premier League to go to 18 clubs from 20
£100 million one-off gift to the FA to cover its coronavirus losses, the non-league game, the women's game, the grassroots
8.5 per cent of annual net Premier League revenue to go on operating costs and "good causes" including the FA
From the remainder, 25 per cent of all combined Premier League and Football League revenues to go to the EFL clubs
Six per cent of Premier League gross revenues to pay for stadium improvements across the top four divisions, calculated at £100 per seat
New rules for the distribution of Premier League television income, overseas and domestic, including proposals that base one portion on performance over three years in the league
The abolition of the League Cup and the Community Shield
24 clubs each in the Championship, League One and League Two reducing the professional game overall from 92 clubs to 90
A women's professional league independent of the Premier League or the FA
Two sides automatically relegated from the Premier League every season and the top two Championship teams promoted. The 16th place Premier League club in a play-off tournament with the Championship's third, fourth and fifth placed teams.
Financial fair play regulations in line with Uefa, and full access for Premier League executive to club accounts
A fan charter including capping of away tickets at £20, away travel subsidised, a focus on a return to safe standing, a minimum away allocation of eight per cent capacity
Later Premier League start in August to give greater scope for pre-season friendlies, and requirement for all clubs to compete once every five years in a summer Premier League tournament
Huge changes to loan system allowing clubs to have 15 players out on loan domestically at any one time and up to four at a single club in England
"Special status for the nine longest serving clubs"... I believe that is from consecutive seasons in the PL and not total amount of time in the PL. City are tenth in total games played in PL with Newcastle and Villa ahead of them.
Quote from: Boycey on October 11, 2020, 09:22:05 PM
Liverpool in the vanguard of a power grab by "The big six" Premier League clubs. United obviously up to their necks in it too.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/10/11/world-exclusive-man-utd-liverpool-driving-project-big-picture/
Quote
The proposals include:
£250 million immediately to the EFL to compensate its clubs for lost matchday revenue, deducted from future television revenue earnings and financed by a loan taken out by the Premier League
Special status for the nine longest serving clubs – and the vote of only six of those "long-term shareholders" required to make major changes, including amending rules and regulations, agreeing contracts, removal of the chief executive, and a wide-ranging veto including on club ownership
Premier League to go to 18 clubs from 20
£100 million one-off gift to the FA to cover its coronavirus losses, the non-league game, the women's game, the grassroots
8.5 per cent of annual net Premier League revenue to go on operating costs and "good causes" including the FA
From the remainder, 25 per cent of all combined Premier League and Football League revenues to go to the EFL clubs
Six per cent of Premier League gross revenues to pay for stadium improvements across the top four divisions, calculated at £100 per seat
New rules for the distribution of Premier League television income, overseas and domestic, including proposals that base one portion on performance over three years in the league
The abolition of the League Cup and the Community Shield
24 clubs each in the Championship, League One and League Two reducing the professional game overall from 92 clubs to 90
A women's professional league independent of the Premier League or the FA
Two sides automatically relegated from the Premier League every season and the top two Championship teams promoted. The 16th place Premier League club in a play-off tournament with the Championship's third, fourth and fifth placed teams.
Financial fair play regulations in line with Uefa, and full access for Premier League executive to club accounts
A fan charter including capping of away tickets at £20, away travel subsidised, a focus on a return to safe standing, a minimum away allocation of eight per cent capacity
Later Premier League start in August to give greater scope for pre-season friendlies, and requirement for all clubs to compete once every five years in a summer Premier League tournament
Huge changes to loan system allowing clubs to have 15 players out on loan domestically at any one time and up to four at a single club in England
Its an absolute powergrab. Its not mentioned there but i think the Big six can effectively force anything through if the charter was agreed as they have increased voting power.
The clubs driving this are terrified of another Man City. Their entire model is predicated on being in the champions league season after season. The line about being able to vote on takeovers of other clubs is alarming. I can't see 14 clubs agreeing to anything like this.
Quote from: Boycey on October 11, 2020, 09:22:05 PM
Liverpool in the vanguard of a power grab by "The big six" Premier League clubs. United obviously up to their necks in it too.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/10/11/world-exclusive-man-utd-liverpool-driving-project-big-picture/
Quote
The proposals include:
£250 million immediately to the EFL to compensate its clubs for lost matchday revenue, deducted from future television revenue earnings and financed by a loan taken out by the Premier League
Special status for the nine longest serving clubs – and the vote of only six of those "long-term shareholders" required to make major changes, including amending rules and regulations, agreeing contracts, removal of the chief executive, and a wide-ranging veto including on club ownership
Premier League to go to 18 clubs from 20
£100 million one-off gift to the FA to cover its coronavirus losses, the non-league game, the women's game, the grassroots
8.5 per cent of annual net Premier League revenue to go on operating costs and "good causes" including the FA
From the remainder, 25 per cent of all combined Premier League and Football League revenues to go to the EFL clubs
Six per cent of Premier League gross revenues to pay for stadium improvements across the top four divisions, calculated at £100 per seat
New rules for the distribution of Premier League television income, overseas and domestic, including proposals that base one portion on performance over three years in the league
The abolition of the League Cup and the Community Shield
24 clubs each in the Championship, League One and League Two reducing the professional game overall from 92 clubs to 90
A women's professional league independent of the Premier League or the FA
Two sides automatically relegated from the Premier League every season and the top two Championship teams promoted. The 16th place Premier League club in a play-off tournament with the Championship's third, fourth and fifth placed teams.
Financial fair play regulations in line with Uefa, and full access for Premier League executive to club accounts
A fan charter including capping of away tickets at £20, away travel subsidised, a focus on a return to safe standing, a minimum away allocation of eight per cent capacity
Later Premier League start in August to give greater scope for pre-season friendlies, and requirement for all clubs to compete once every five years in a summer Premier League tournament
Huge changes to loan system allowing clubs to have 15 players out on loan domestically at any one time and up to four at a single club in England
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/10/12/project-big-picture-inside-story-liverpool-man-utd-efl-plan/
Thirty years on and attempts to re-mould that same Premier League – now the most powerful, and the most lucrative, sport league in the world – has echoes of the way in which it was created. The Premier League's executive and all but its two most famous clubs, Manchester United and Liverpool in conjunction with the EFL chairman Rick Parry, have been bypassed.
But for Parry this is a scheme 25 years in the making. Three years after the Premier League began, in 1995, the Football League board spurned a second opportunity, backed by all bar one of its clubs, to share in the riches of its much more profitable sibling when, as Premier League chief executive, Parry offered to take over the negotiations for the Football League's television rights and give a percentage of their combined income in return.
When, in 1995, the proposal was put to the 72 Football League clubs, 71 voted in favour of throwing their lot in with the Premier League. But the Football League board rejected it and insisted on negotiating alone.
Now the same offer forms part of these proposals. The EFL clubs themselves were mostly unaware of the strategy being pursued – many of them finding out when The Telegraph revealed the plans at lunchtime on Sunday. Before then Parry says that he has, at different times, alluded to the plan he had in mind, arguing that systemic problems mean clubs are not able to respond properly to the Covid crisis.
Indeed, talks have been ongoing for three years involving some of the most powerful owners in the Premier League. Among them was the American billionaire John W Henry, Liverpool's principal owner and a key figure in what would become "Project Big Picture" and later the "Revitalisation" document.
So too Mike Gordon, another in Liverpool's Fenway Sports Group, and one of those credited with the club's recent transformation into European and then English champions. Parry was also speaking to Joel Glazer who has overseen a rather less successful ownership of Manchester United since his late father, Malcolm, bought the club in 2005.
Why did those billionaire investors, who control the most powerful clubs in the English game, choose Parry to help them restructure the sport? Among other things, he is regarded as a man who – as his interview The Telegraph reveals – is prepared to say the things that other figures in the game may believe privately but fear to utter. With Parry in charge of the EFL, United and Liverpool also believe that he can deliver consensus from his 72 very different members.
But this is a major gamble. Over the course of the three years, Parry worked in secret with the two biggest Premier League clubs to come up with a plan. He cares less about the power it will give the wealthiest clubs and more about the 25 per cent annually of Premier League revenue that will flow to his impecunious members. Others may be more conflicted but Parry regards this is an unprecedented concession and he is not afraid to say so. In the meantime he has secured agreements from his members for salary caps which he says will be an end to the ruinous spending of years gone by.
Show more
For United and Liverpool, the pay-off is not a greater share of the revenue from the Premier League's television deal – they are insistent that will not happen. Instead those two clubs say they want the power, along with the other members of the elite to shape the rules of the league and also to have more matchdays to compete in a potentially expanded Champions League. Those who oppose them are much more dubious that it will not deliver a greater share.
The authors of "Revitalisation" are on their 17th draft already. Optimistically they want to see it in place for the 2022-2023 season. On the question of how the Premier League would come down from 20 clubs to 18, there is no firm proposal yet. The league's original reduction from 22 clubs to 20 took three years because the Football League was not ready to accommodate the extra clubs until 1995-96.
Parry has shared his plans with just a few close confidants, including the Stoke chairman, John Coates, and his Middlesbrough counterpart, Steve Gibson. "They are 100 per cent supportive because it is for the greater good," Parry said. "Those two are genuinely up for it. They are excited, and passionate about it. In a time when everyone is panicking how we will emerge from it you need a long-term vision and you need hope."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/10/12/premier-league-warned-football-faces-government-review-efl-rescue/
The UK Government is now threatening to launch an immediate review of football regulation if the Premier League cannot agree a rescue package with the English Football League "within the existing measures".
"It's clear that this proposal does not command support throughout the Premier League - it is exactly this type of backroom dealing that undermines trust in football governance," Downing Street said.
Can't be all bad if the tories are coming out against it.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/10/12/americanisation-english-football-project-big-picture-money-control/
It was also telling that Henry drew a comparison with America when he talked about having "closed leagues" and how it was OK to share the cash around more evenly when there was no jeopardy. "It's much more difficult to ask independent clubs to subsidise their competitors beyond a certain point when you have relegation and especially the way media is rapidly changing and being consumed today," Henry argued.
Remember what he said there – he talked about having to "subsidise" other clubs and how media is changing. They are key points in deciding what is really going on with Project Big Picture. It is not a re-distribution of wealth. It is offering, effectively, a "closed league". It is, finally, the Americanisation of English football which presumably Henry and the Glazer family, who own Manchester United, have long been aiming for given their clubs are the sponsors behind what is cheerily called a "new model of governance".
From Boston to Palm Beach, it is already a land of closed leagues, and that is what they want for England also, with Henry having never attempted to hide his frustration at the way the finances of football operate in this country.
In principle, he is right. The system does not work and, as has been discussed over the past few months, it needs to change, but the argument that what is being proposed is fairer and is a "new era of sustainability" is utter nonsense. It may be sustainable, there may be some good ideas - but at what price?
Indeed, what no-one in support of the radical overhaul has done - and it has not been addressed by English Football League chairman Rick Parry - is answer the fundamental question: if, as the briefing notes from the EFL claim, it will "revitalise and rejuvenate English football's pyramid for the long-term by correcting long-standing issues" then why does it follow that for this to happen the control and future of football has to be handed over to the 'Big Six' who would be the decision-makers? It seems, at first glance, that all the documentation does is take that quantum leap without saying specifically why.
Except it does. There is a nugget in there that starts to explain everything and goes back to what Liverpool and United - and presumably Manchester City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham Hotspur - have all been lobbying for and why Kuala Lumpur was mentioned at the beginning of this column.
It was a former Liverpool executive - not Parry but the man who replaced him at the club, Ian Ayre - who famously broke from the position of collective selling of rights by saying, "if you're in Kuala Lumpur there isn't anyone subscribing to [rights holders] Astro or ESPN to watch Bolton - or if they are, it's a very small number - whereas the large majority are subscribing because they want to watch Liverpool, Manchester United, Chelsea or Arsenal".
So Project Big Picture talks about bundling the selling of rights together - the Premier League, the EFL, even the FA Cup - for the greater good and, by the way, the forecast of a 10 per cent increase for the next round of negotiations to help fund everything is pretty optimistic in the current economic climate.
But it also says "all Premier League clubs shall have the exclusive rights to sell eight live matches a season directly to fans via their digital platforms in all international territories (ie excluding the UK) ideally one per month". And it goes on to say that while the Premier League will continue to support the so-called "3pm Saturday blackout" - when matches are not allowed to be shown live in the UK at that time - if that were to change (and I wonder who might want it to?) then clubs will be able to broadcast games "on club consumer channels and digital platforms".
So there we have it. They want more power because they generate the most income and to help them generate even more income - but only for themselves. If Project Big Picture was to be approved, the dam would burst. It would hasten the end of collective bargaining, it would hasten the end of competition beyond the 'Big Six', it would hasten the end of the Premier League as a competition.
There is yet more. Reducing the league to 18 clubs means there will be only 17 home league games for income, from gate receipts as well as broadcast, for most of the clubs - while the Big Six will expect to play in Europe where the plan is to increase the number of fixtures.
So while Liverpool and United insist they will not gain a greater share of the Premier League's broadcast deals, that misses the point. They will be able to cut their own deals.
The architects of the plan say there is no intention to do away with relegation and while, even under the current arrangements, no-one would expect Liverpool to go down, the changes would mean there is almost zero chance of them finishing outside the top six.
That would become a 'closed league' within a league and who is to say that the clubs would not simply, over time, vote for more and more for themselves? Ah, the argument goes, that can be vetoed by the Football Association with its so-called 'golden share' - but what would that mean in reality? The FA may well owe the Premier League far too much.
On Thursday, Henry celebrates the 10th anniversary of acquiring Liverpool and he and Fenway Sports Group have done so much good for the club, where debts were mounting and the fans had lined the streets around Anfield in protest. Certainly FSG is far more popular than the Glazers at United. But both are wrong with this plan, while the suspicion that American owners moving into football was always going to lead to something like this happening is beginning to prove true.
I checked Spirit of Shankly's page on this. They're usually pretty good at holding the club's feet to the fire.
They say they're still waiting to hear from them.
https://spiritofshankly.com/ppv-project-big-picture/ (https://spiritofshankly.com/ppv-project-big-picture/)
Over the past weekend, the Project Big Picture document leak and Pay-Per-View announcement (a disgraceful £14.95 per match) have again demonstrated, with zero formal engagement, a complete disregard for fans.
The hedge funds and billionaire owners of our football clubs need to understand they are merely custodians.
The actions of the club owners and TV broadcasters once more highlight the need for a supporter-led review of football governance.
So far, Liverpool Football Club have remained silent on both of these issues and Spirit of Shankly have written asking them to explain their position.
We will provide further updates in the coming days once we have had a response from LFC and the chance to digest further the details of these proposals.
No disrespect to the Spirit of Shankly group but this is end game for the owners they won't give a shiny shite what SOS think. Liverpool and United are the two that have stuck there heads above parapet at present but I'd be astonished if the other 'big clubs' aren't up to their necks in this too....
Quote from: Boycey on October 13, 2020, 12:46:57 PM
No disrespect to the Spirit of Shankly group but this is end game for the owners they won't give a shiny shite what SOS think. Liverpool and United are the two that have stuck there heads above parapet at present but I'd be astonished if the other 'big clubs' aren't up to their necks in this too....
Yes, they've backed the club down over relatively minor matters (in comparison to this) before, but this is a whole other level.
Apparently its been a Henry/Glazer/Parry-driven proposal, with Henry the primary mover. Other top six clubs only became recently aware, but I'm sure they'll be happy enough with it. From what I've read, most clubs outside the bottom ten of the Premier League will likely be happy with it. The bottom ten will lose two EPL places, two homes games, four games altogether, and will be stuck with eight games a year to sell internationally, although on the latter, they might be all right if said games are against the top six (I've no idea how that bit is going to work).
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:55:38 PM
Quote from: Boycey on October 13, 2020, 12:46:57 PM
No disrespect to the Spirit of Shankly group but this is end game for the owners they won't give a shiny shite what SOS think. Liverpool and United are the two that have stuck there heads above parapet at present but I'd be astonished if the other 'big clubs' aren't up to their necks in this too....
Yes, they've backed the club down over relatively minor matters (in comparison to this) before, but this is a whole other level.
Apparently its been a Henry/Glazer/Parry-driven proposal, with Henry the primary mover. Other top six clubs only became recently aware, but I'm sure they'll be happy enough with it. From what I've read, most clubs outside the bottom ten of the Premier League will likely be happy with it. The bottom ten will lose two EPL places, two homes games, four games altogether, and will be stuck with eight games a year to sell internationally, although on the latter, they might be all right if said games are against the top six (I've no idea how that bit is going to work).
Bottom line is they can't change anything without 14 of the 20 premier league clubs backing it. 6 clubs pulling up the ladder is unlikely to appeal to the likes of Newcastle, Leeds, Villa, Leicester, Wolves, etc. West Ham have already come out against it very strongly.
Quote from: shark on October 13, 2020, 01:54:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:55:38 PM
Quote from: Boycey on October 13, 2020, 12:46:57 PM
No disrespect to the Spirit of Shankly group but this is end game for the owners they won't give a shiny shite what SOS think. Liverpool and United are the two that have stuck there heads above parapet at present but I'd be astonished if the other 'big clubs' aren't up to their necks in this too....
Yes, they've backed the club down over relatively minor matters (in comparison to this) before, but this is a whole other level.
Apparently its been a Henry/Glazer/Parry-driven proposal, with Henry the primary mover. Other top six clubs only became recently aware, but I'm sure they'll be happy enough with it. From what I've read, most clubs outside the bottom ten of the Premier League will likely be happy with it. The bottom ten will lose two EPL places, two homes games, four games altogether, and will be stuck with eight games a year to sell internationally, although on the latter, they might be all right if said games are against the top six (I've no idea how that bit is going to work).
Bottom line is they can't change anything without 14 of the 20 premier league clubs backing it. 6 clubs pulling up the ladder is unlikely to appeal to the likes of Newcastle, Leeds, Villa, Leicester, Wolves, etc. West Ham have already come out against it very strongly.
I'm sure its occurred to Henry, Glazer and whoever the current voting requirements and they must be confident they can work around them...
Quote from: Boycey on October 13, 2020, 04:08:49 PM
Quote from: shark on October 13, 2020, 01:54:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:55:38 PM
Quote from: Boycey on October 13, 2020, 12:46:57 PM
No disrespect to the Spirit of Shankly group but this is end game for the owners they won't give a shiny shite what SOS think. Liverpool and United are the two that have stuck there heads above parapet at present but I'd be astonished if the other 'big clubs' aren't up to their necks in this too....
Yes, they've backed the club down over relatively minor matters (in comparison to this) before, but this is a whole other level.
Apparently its been a Henry/Glazer/Parry-driven proposal, with Henry the primary mover. Other top six clubs only became recently aware, but I'm sure they'll be happy enough with it. From what I've read, most clubs outside the bottom ten of the Premier League will likely be happy with it. The bottom ten will lose two EPL places, two homes games, four games altogether, and will be stuck with eight games a year to sell internationally, although on the latter, they might be all right if said games are against the top six (I've no idea how that bit is going to work).
Bottom line is they can't change anything without 14 of the 20 premier league clubs backing it. 6 clubs pulling up the ladder is unlikely to appeal to the likes of Newcastle, Leeds, Villa, Leicester, Wolves, etc. West Ham have already come out against it very strongly.
I'm sure its occurred to Henry, Glazer and whoever the current voting requirements and they must be confident they can work around them...
possibly. and possibly they were just fishing to gauge the response. or maybe they were hoping that the "other 14" would feel the heat - in that they must agree or else all these smaller clubs will die. or maybe they have just misjudged the room.
https://www.ft.com/content/22ffc8bb-81d8-4d8d-86f3-2b4c70b38ccb
Premier League proposals raise suspicions over US owners' motives Clubs divided by plan to hand power to elite few as lower leagues seek £250m rescue Liverpool and Manchester United, the Premier League's two most successful clubs, have backed the plans © Action Images via Reuters
Backers of a significant shake-up that is dividing English football have been forced to defend the proposals amid fierce criticism from the UK government, the Premier League and the Football Association. The plan, devised by Rick Parry, the chairman of the English Football League, which runs the three divisions below the top flight, and Liverpool and Manchester United, the Premier League's two most successful clubs, would hand a £250m bailout to the EFL as well a 25 per cent share of future media revenue. For Mr Parry, it is a chance to reset English football and address the unsustainable surge in costs to keep up as the gulf widens between the Premier League and the EFL. It also marks a power grab by the top clubs, as it would concentrate power in the hands of the Big Six, which includes Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester City and Tottenham Hotspur.
The plan will dominate a previously scheduled meeting of Premier League clubs on Wednesday. A person close to the league said EFL finances would be discussed, though it was unclear whether the leak of "Project Big Picture" would force them to offer an alternative proposal. Adding to the tension was the unexpected resignation on Monday of chief executive David Baldwin. The EFL said his departure was not linked with the furore over the proposals. On Tuesday, a number of EFL clubs, including Championship sides Rotherham United and Preston North End, defended the project in a media call arranged by the league. You've got elements of a creeping US model in these proposals Darren Bailey, sports lawyer at Charles Russell Speechlys
The UK government has criticised "backroom deals" to create a "closed shop" at the top of the sport, while Football Association chairman Greg Clarke distanced himself from the plans. "When the principal aim of these discussions became the concentration of power and wealth in the hands of a few clubs with a breakaway league mooted as a threat, I, of course, discontinued my involvement," said Mr Clarke on Tuesday. Kieran Maguire, an academic and author on accountancy and football, said: "It's the American ideal of naked capitalism. It makes the Big Six more attractive to investors." The US billionaire Glazer family took control of Manchester United in a £790m leveraged buyout in 2005 and later listed the company on the New York Stock Exchange. John Henry is in talks to list Fenway Sports Group, which bought Liverpool in a $300m deal in 2010. "US sport is run by business for business," said one adviser to several top clubs. "This smacks of opportunism; a restructuring is needed but this seems to be too much one-way." Premier League's relationship with Mr Parry has soured over his decision to hold separate talks with its two biggest clubs, said a person close to the league. "What is wrong with leadership coming from two of the country's greatest clubs?" said Mr Parry, a former chief executive of Liverpool, of the plans on Sunday. "The message from Liverpool and Manchester United and their ownership is that they actually do genuinely care about the [football] pyramid." EFL clubs lost £382m last season, according to Mr Parry, with owners injecting a similar sum in the past 12 months. Wages in the Championship, the second tier, amounted to 107 per cent of revenues in the 2018/19 season, according to Deloitte.
Rick Parry, the chairman of the English Football League, says elite clubs 'actually do genuinely care' © Action Images/Reuters Mr Parry blames Premier League "parachute payments" to relegated clubs for encouraging excessive player spending in the EFL. Rob Wilson, a football finance expert at Sheffield Hallam University, said reform was needed to tackle the funding crisis in lower leagues, adding "The status quo isn't working." The plan would scrap the one club, one vote system, and hand the Big Six veto over club takeovers, the appointment of the Premier League chief executive, and the distribution of broadcast revenue through special voting powers. Such a radical step is unlikely to gain support among the remaining clubs but has prompted concerns that some teams could splinter from the Premier League to achieve their goals. Some proposals are attractive.
The Premier League would be cut to 18 clubs, which would have the exclusive right to sell eight international matches directly to fans on their own digital platforms. A smaller division, alongside proposals for two fewer cup competitions, could also free up the playing calendar for greater commitments to European competitions. But a smaller league limits chances of promotion. "It could be more difficult to come up and stay when you don't get a vote on what's going on," said a lawyer who has advised several Premier League clubs.
Some analysts draw parallels with US sport, which typically operates closed leagues and where a few dozen wealthy owners dominate. Stricter cost controls, including salary caps for the EFL, are also more reminiscent of the American approach. "You've got elements of a creeping US model in these proposals," said Darren Bailey, a sports lawyer at Charles Russell Speechlys.
But US sport clubs share power evenly in the organisation of professional leagues. In the National Football League the sharing of lucrative national media revenues and the lack of relegation for underperforming teams has allowed for more even competition, such that a small-market team such as the Kansas City Chiefs became Super Bowl champions this year.
Where some point to "creeping Americanisation" in English football, Mr Maguire said the proposals merely come from US owners. "If you look at American franchised sport, it's far more democratic than any of these proposals," he said. Project Big Picture, however, "is in some respects the antithesis of American sport, which is about the good of the league as a whole."
As a Liverpool supporter this thing should be rejected out of hand
It's a transparent disaster capitalist power grab
It's throwing in a few short term goodies to try and fool people into handing over control of football to the big clubs
They should be told to f**k off
Quote from: sid waddell on October 14, 2020, 11:46:15 AM
As a Liverpool supporter this thing should be rejected out of hand
It's a transparent disaster capitalist power grab
It's throwing in a few short term goodies to try and fool people into handing over control of football to the big clubs
They should be told to f**k off
I'd be against it too but it's hilarious to see the Premier Leugue, and the British government, squirm when it's exactly what The Premier League did themselves back in the early 90s... I don't know enough about the ins and outs of the current plan but I do think it is only a matter of time one way or another.
Quote from: Boycey on October 14, 2020, 12:28:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 14, 2020, 11:46:15 AM
As a Liverpool supporter this thing should be rejected out of hand
It's a transparent disaster capitalist power grab
It's throwing in a few short term goodies to try and fool people into handing over control of football to the big clubs
They should be told to f**k off
I'd be against it too but it's hilarious to see the Premier Leugue, and the British government, squirm when it's exactly what The Premier League did themselves back in the early 90s... I don't know enough about the ins and outs of the current plan but I do think it is only a matter of time one way or another.
You do think what is a matter of time?
The requirement to get 14 votes to change anything in the Premier League means that the wealthier clubs have continually failed to push through radical changes that they have wanted in the past. For example, the proposed move from 20 to 18 teams has been on the table for 20 years at this stage. There is no hope they will keep the opposition to that change below 7 votes. They can threaten a breakaway European super league all they want, because nobody believes they would decide to leave domestic football, and also because many wouldn't actually care if they did.
The "six" that are in favour today, will not be six in a few short years, and that is what scares them so much. The owners at Everton, Villa, Wolves, Leicester ,to name four, are so wealthy that the marginal wealth of the six is becoming less and less relevant. There are only so many players one club can buy. Hence why one of their proposals is to be able to block takeovers at other clubs. And another is to be able to stockpile players by allowing a ludicrous amount of external loans.
The 14 have all the power, as all they have to do is get a 50% consensus to block anything.
Quote from: sid waddell on October 14, 2020, 11:46:15 AM
As a Liverpool supporter this thing should be rejected out of hand
It's a transparent disaster capitalist power grab
It's throwing in a few short term goodies to try and fool people into handing over control of football to the big clubs
They should be told to f**k off
100% agree, apart from the Liverpool fan thing though.
So all 20 clubs voted against the proposal that 6 of them were in favour of... make sense of that if you will.
Quote from: lurganblue on October 14, 2020, 05:03:25 PM
So all 20 clubs voted against the proposal that 6 of them were in favour of... make sense of that if you will.
It's the start of a prolonged strategic campaign, a bit like Brexit but with penalties ;D. It's amazing how people see things differently, unlike Shark above I see the power as being with the 6 not the 14. Good luck to anybody trying to sell a Premier League product without them. I'm sure there will be a lot of toing and froing but like in most things money ultimately talks?
Anyway defeated for the minute thankfully
Quote from: Boycey on October 14, 2020, 06:48:02 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on October 14, 2020, 05:03:25 PM
So all 20 clubs voted against the proposal that 6 of them were in favour of... make sense of that if you will.
It's the start of a prolonged strategic campaign, a bit like Brexit but with penalties ;D. It's amazing how people see things differently, unlike Shark above I see the power as being with the 6 not the 14. Good luck to anybody trying to sell a Premier League product without them. I'm sure there will be a lot of toing and froing but like in most things money ultimately talks?
Anyway defeated for the minute thankfully
Nobody will have to sell a product without them though. They will never leave. their bluff can be called all day long. They got embarrassed today, with the Everton chairman demanding they apologise. What they want is to play in the premier league but to be guaranteed to be in the champions league every year. And for most of the 00's the same 4 clubs had that. Then there were 6, and the 4 panicked. Arsenal came 10th last season. We will see more of that happening.
Chelsea still look far from convincing under Lampard yet he doesn't seem to get the same heat from the media like some other managers?
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 17, 2020, 04:59:52 PM
Chelsea still look far from convincing under Lampard yet he doesn't seem to get the same heat from the media like some other managers?
They made a great effort to beat their weekly three goal handicap
Bravo Lamps and his young home grown lions
The very best of British fighting spirit
Spurs do a Spurs
Wonder goal by lanzini
Quote from: SHEEDY on October 18, 2020, 06:27:37 PM
Wonder goal by lanzini
Do well to see a better goal scored this season.
Season is crazy. Hard to know who will win it. Spurs should be pushing on better than they are but throwing away a 3-0 lead is poor. City look decent but not what they were. Liverpool looked average so far and now without VVD they will struggle. Everton look good but can they sustain it? Utd are too inconsistent. Chelsea the same as Utd.
Impossible to predict.
Quote from: GJL on October 18, 2020, 07:36:50 PM
Season is crazy. Hard to know who will win it. Spurs should be pushing on better than they are but throwing away a 3-0 lead is poor. City look decent but not what they were. Liverpool looked average so far and now without VVD they will struggle. Everton look good but can they sustain it? Utd are too inconsistent. Chelsea the same as Utd.
Impossible to predict.
Lol
Quote from: GJL on October 18, 2020, 07:36:50 PM
Season is crazy. Hard to know who will win it. Spurs should be pushing on better than they are but throwing away a 3-0 lead is poor. City look decent but not what they were. Liverpool looked average so far and now without VVD they will struggle. Everton look good but can they sustain it? Utd are too inconsistent. Chelsea the same as Utd.
Impossible to predict.
Villa not even get a mention :P
Another great result for them.
Quote from: lurganblue on October 19, 2020, 09:57:46 AM
Quote from: GJL on October 18, 2020, 07:36:50 PM
Season is crazy. Hard to know who will win it. Spurs should be pushing on better than they are but throwing away a 3-0 lead is poor. City look decent but not what they were. Liverpool looked average so far and now without VVD they will struggle. Everton look good but can they sustain it? Utd are too inconsistent. Chelsea the same as Utd.
Impossible to predict.
Villa not even get a mention :P
On oddschecker this morning they had Aston Villa 66/1 to win the league as the current 'Most Popular Bet'!
City into odds on favorites, Liverpool out to 5/2
Quote from: Hound on October 19, 2020, 01:33:19 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on October 19, 2020, 09:57:46 AM
Quote from: GJL on October 18, 2020, 07:36:50 PM
Season is crazy. Hard to know who will win it. Spurs should be pushing on better than they are but throwing away a 3-0 lead is poor. City look decent but not what they were. Liverpool looked average so far and now without VVD they will struggle. Everton look good but can they sustain it? Utd are too inconsistent. Chelsea the same as Utd.
Impossible to predict.
Villa not even get a mention :P
On oddschecker this morning they had Aston Villa 66/1 to win the league as the current 'Most Popular Bet'!
City into odds on favorites, Liverpool out to 5/2
Maybe people speculating on COVID blowing up the season, and Villa winning on PPG ;D
I was looking at the betting last night at the Villa are 40/1 with PP :o. I was astounded at City being odds on as opposed to Liverpool's 5/2, City have plenty of questions about them too in my opinion. The only thing I can think of is there sheer weight of numbers may stand to them in this strange season.....
Quote from: Boycey on October 20, 2020, 10:00:29 AM
I was looking at the betting last night at the Villa are 40/1 with PP :o. I was astounded at City being odds on as opposed to Liverpool's 5/2, City have plenty of questions about them too in my opinion. The only thing I can think of is there sheer weight of numbers may stand to them in this strange season.....
I wonder if the Vile's excellent start to the season has anything to do with the fact that they're not playing in front of their own 'supporters'?
Quote from: Boycey on October 20, 2020, 10:00:29 AM
I was looking at the betting last night at the Villa are 40/1 with PP :o. I was astounded at City being odds on as opposed to Liverpool's 5/2, City have plenty of questions about them too in my opinion. The only thing I can think of is there sheer weight of numbers may stand to them in this strange season.....
I wonder if the Vile's excellent start to the season has anything to do with the fact that they're not playing in front of their own 'supporters'? ;D
Have to give Villa great credit, they looked dead and buried last year before the restart. Dean Smith has proved a lot of people wrong.
Barkley may well turn out to be a really clever signing from them, an undoubted talent.
Good question from David Moyes.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11685/12112178/david-moyes-west-ham-boss-asks-why-can-football-be-viewed-in-cinemas-but-not-grounds
Villa didn't turn up
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 24, 2020, 09:05:51 AM
Villa didn't turn up
Leeds had way more energy in the middle 3rd. 3-0 was a fair reflection of the game.
Yeah Leeds had Villa's number from early doors and were deserving winners. Very impressive. They created so many one on one or two v one situations in the wide areas.
That VAR check just now in the Brighton Spurs game. The ref didn't give the foul before the goal because he said the Brighton player got the ball first.
Yet last week Fabinho got the ball first and VAR gave it as a foul.
Harry kane is a serial diver.
Quote from: hardstation on November 01, 2020, 08:45:10 PM
Quote from: laoislad on November 01, 2020, 08:39:58 PM
That VAR check just now in the Brighton Spurs game. The ref didn't give the foul before the goal because he said the Brighton player got the ball first.
Yet last week Fabinho got the ball first and VAR gave it as a foul.
The ref has made a balls of that IMO. It was quite clearly a foul. VAR gave him a chance to put it right but after looking at it again, he thought he got it right!
it wasn't 'quite clear' it was a foul, it's a subjective decision, I didn't think it was a foul, the ref didn't think it was a foul but you did. Not everyone's going to agree. I didn't think it was a penalty but the ref did. Var isn't black and white regarding fouls.
2 poor decisions by the ref and Var, the Kane penalty was never in a million years a penalty.
Spurs up to 2nd. Played poor enough tonight, but if they can get Kane, Son and Bale all firing together, they could well be a genuine contender for the league.
Quote from: SHEEDY on November 01, 2020, 09:11:16 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 01, 2020, 09:00:12 PM
It was.
in your opinion. Not in mine or the refs.
But when the ref is called over to the monitor, it means that the VAR has a serious question with the ref's original decision.
Of course it's still quite early stages, but the table is rightly congested this year.
Man City currently 10th, but win their game in hand and they go joint 2nd.
If United had won yesterday and played/won their game in hand, they be joint 3rd - instead they're 15th and Ole under severe pressure.
Very funny that Liverpool are top of the league yet have conceded more goals than anyone else. Obviously exacerbated by one game, but still clearly have problems in defence and could well be a very open league this year.
10/10 for confidence anyway. Christ he would need some bollocking in the changing rooms afterwards.
Just seen lookman's penalty.... :-X
Quote from: SHEEDY on November 07, 2020, 11:12:33 PM
Just seen lookman's penalty.... :-X
A real brainfart.
Is Mourinho still sh*t then....
Quote from: Boycey on November 21, 2020, 07:53:56 PM
Is Mourinho still sh*t then....
Would you have him back at Utd to replace Ole?
Quote from: gawa316 on November 21, 2020, 08:00:37 PM
Quote from: Boycey on November 21, 2020, 07:53:56 PM
Is Mourinho still sh*t then....
Would you have him back at Utd to replace Ole?
A very complex question :)
Not a fan of Jose but I would consider him an elite manager and always contended he wasn't the root of the problem in his time at United despite the prevailing opinion
Quote from: Boycey on November 21, 2020, 07:53:56 PM
Is Mourinho still sh*t then....
Only nine games played in the new season and the lack of quality seen so far in this Premier League season is more telling than anything special Jose is doing.
That Fulham penalty... how do you even do that? Hit the penalty with right foot, hits left foot and over the bar.
Anyone see the incident for the villa pen at the weekend? Seems to have really divided opinions from fans. Initially when I saw it I thought it looked a pen. Close up it looks like the defender brushed the ball and kicked the attacker. Now I was always a "he got the ball" guy and instantly thought that the pen would be overturned. Seems a lot of people (neutrals included) feel going through the man after touching the ball would be a foul. Where would you stand on that? Is the ruling clear?
I think the ref Oliver was spot on, the defender nicked the ball first, the Villa player Trezeguet went for the full leap in the air simulating great hurt. There's no way that any possible follow through contact could have caused such a reaction.
Then it comes down to did the ref make a clear and obvious error in the first place? no he didn't because it looked like a penalty on first glance. Therefore eveybody are whining about that ref should have left the original decision as it was , but none of them consider that it was Trezeguet's simulation made it look like a penalty in the first place and that's what the ref saw in the video replay.
Yeah I take your point on that, Trez did make a complete meal of it. Dean Smith said the whole ground could hear the thud of the contact, and I assume that played into the ref's original decision too.
Quote from: lurganblue on November 23, 2020, 12:33:58 PM
Anyone see the incident for the villa pen at the weekend? Seems to have really divided opinions from fans. Initially when I saw it I thought it looked a pen. Close up it looks like the defender brushed the ball and kicked the attacker. Now I was always a "he got the ball" guy and instantly thought that the pen would be overturned. Seems a lot of people (neutrals included) feel going through the man after touching the ball would be a foul. Where would you stand on that? Is the ruling clear?
Was thinking the same myself. If a player slides to win the ball, they inevitably take the man as well but this is never considered a foul, is that the same this type of incident? I.e. win ball, then take out the player
Quote from: lurganblue on November 23, 2020, 03:18:34 PM
Yeah I take your point on that, Trez did make a complete meal of it. Dean Smith said the whole ground could hear the thud of the contact, and I assume that played into the ref's original decision too.
If there was such a thud I doubt the ref would even have considered reviewing the decision. And in all honesty how on earth could such a slight contact, if any, could have caused such an earth trembling thud?
Quote from: Main Street on November 23, 2020, 03:29:34 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on November 23, 2020, 03:18:34 PM
Yeah I take your point on that, Trez did make a complete meal of it. Dean Smith said the whole ground could hear the thud of the contact, and I assume that played into the ref's original decision too.
If there was such a thud I doubt the ref would even have considered reviewing the decision. And in all honesty how on earth could such a slight contact, if any, could have caused such an earth trembling thud?
It made my day. :D
Sickening clash of heads between Raul jiminez and David Luiz, looked a real bad one for jiminez but how was Luiz allowed to continue? Subbed off at half time but surely questions need asked of the medics. Hopefully jiminez injury not as bad as it looked and sounded.
I haven't seen it but apparently jiminez injury isn't as bad as it looked.
If a player needs a head bandage they shouldn't be on the pitch! Times have moved on since Terry Butcher's hayday.
Hmm - Jimenez has suffered a fractured skull so what I read first wasn't accurate. He is now "comfortable" apparently.
The sound of the clash was bad, and that was with the crowd noise on!
So what length of a ban do we expect Cavani to get?
Is the whole thing nowadays that you are meant to respect peoples cultures, religions etc. Therefore, Cavani should be getting no ban.
Man U using the same argument to defend Cavani as Liverpool did with Suarez. Suarez got 8 matches.
Bit of a difference between calling a black french man "negro" in an argument in a heated derby encounter compared to saying "thanks negrito" to a fellow countryman when he congratulates you on Instagram. Context is everything.
Bernardo Silva received a one game ban and a fine for his tweet, so if they are to be consistent on these matters then Cavani should be getting the same.
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 30, 2020, 12:03:01 PM
Bit of a difference between calling a black french man "negro" in an argument in a heated derby encounter compared to saying "thanks negrito" to a fellow countryman when he congratulates you on Instagram. Context is everything.
Suarez used the term "negrito".
Not saying Cavani did anything wrong.
Get Fergal Logan on the case.
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2012/jan/01/fa-report-luis-suarez-patrice-evra
Mr Evra's evidence was that, in response to his question "Why did you kick me?", Mr Suárez replied "Porque tu eres negro". Mr Evra said that at the time Mr Suárez made that comment, he (Mr Evra) understood it to mean "Because you are a nigger". He now says that he believes the words used by Mr Suárez mean "Because you are black". We shall consider further below Mr Evra's understanding of the Spanish word "negro".
"Why did you kick me?"
'Because you're Black' (porque eres negro)
Not "sorry, negrito, I didn't mean to"
Again, context is everything.
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2020, 12:24:20 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 30, 2020, 12:03:01 PM
Bit of a difference between calling a black french man "negro" in an argument in a heated derby encounter compared to saying "thanks negrito" to a fellow countryman when he congratulates you on Instagram. Context is everything.
Suarez used the term "negrito".
Not saying Cavani did anything wrong.
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 30, 2020, 12:39:37 PM
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2012/jan/01/fa-report-luis-suarez-patrice-evra
Mr Evra's evidence was that, in response to his question "Why did you kick me?", Mr Suárez replied "Porque tu eres negro". Mr Evra said that at the time Mr Suárez made that comment, he (Mr Evra) understood it to mean "Because you are a nigger". He now says that he believes the words used by Mr Suárez mean "Because you are black". We shall consider further below Mr Evra's understanding of the Spanish word "negro".
"Why did you kick me?"
'Because you're Black' (porque eres negro)
Not "sorry, negrito, I didn't mean to"
Again, context is everything.
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2020, 12:24:20 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 30, 2020, 12:03:01 PM
Bit of a difference between calling a black french man "negro" in an argument in a heated derby encounter compared to saying "thanks negrito" to a fellow countryman when he congratulates you on Instagram. Context is everything.
Suarez used the term "negrito".
Not saying Cavani did anything wrong.
Yes, you appear to be right on the "negro", not "negrito" thing, although they seem to be pretty much the same thing in their dialect.
I didn't argue the context. Clearly they're different.
Its just the cultural/language issue was dismissed as irrelevant or even bullshit by a lot of people back then.
The FA's case, in short, was as follows. In the goalmouth, Mr Evra and Mr Suarez spoke to
each other in Spanish. Mr Evra asked Mr Suarez why he had kicked him, referring to the
foul five minutes previously. Mr Suarez replied "Porque tu eres negro", meaning "Because
you are black". Mr Evra then said to Mr Suarez "say it to me again, I'm going to punch
you". Mr Suarez replied "No hablo con los negros", meaning "I don't speak to blacks". Mr
Evra continued by saying that he now thought he was going to punch Mr Suarez. Mr
Suarez replied "Dale, negro, negro, negro", which meant "okay, blackie, blackie, blackie".
As Mr Suarez said this, he reached out to touch Mr Evra's arm, gesturing at his skin. Mr
Kuyt then intervened. When the referee blew his whistle and called the players over to
him shortly after the exchanges in the goalmouth, Mr Evra said to the referee "ref, ref, he
just called me a f**king black".
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2020, 01:11:45 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 30, 2020, 12:39:37 PM
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2012/jan/01/fa-report-luis-suarez-patrice-evra
Mr Evra's evidence was that, in response to his question "Why did you kick me?", Mr Suárez replied "Porque tu eres negro". Mr Evra said that at the time Mr Suárez made that comment, he (Mr Evra) understood it to mean "Because you are a nigger". He now says that he believes the words used by Mr Suárez mean "Because you are black". We shall consider further below Mr Evra's understanding of the Spanish word "negro".
"Why did you kick me?"
'Because you're Black' (porque eres negro)
Not "sorry, negrito, I didn't mean to"
Again, context is everything.
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2020, 12:24:20 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 30, 2020, 12:03:01 PM
Bit of a difference between calling a black french man "negro" in an argument in a heated derby encounter compared to saying "thanks negrito" to a fellow countryman when he congratulates you on Instagram. Context is everything.
Suarez used the term "negrito".
Not saying Cavani did anything wrong.
Yes, you appear to be right on the "negro", not "negrito" thing, although they seem to be pretty much the same thing in their dialect.
I didn't argue the context. Clearly they're different.
Its just the cultural/language issue was dismissed as irrelevant or even bullshit by a lot of people back then.
I get what you're saying but I don't think the cultural issue can be used for Suarez - he was speaking to a French rival in a heated situation... If they'd been having a friendly chat after the game then that could be a reasonable excuse for Suarez but not shouting "go for it/ok black boy".
I wonder how the t-shirts will look.
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 30, 2020, 02:05:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2020, 01:11:45 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 30, 2020, 12:39:37 PM
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2012/jan/01/fa-report-luis-suarez-patrice-evra
Mr Evra's evidence was that, in response to his question "Why did you kick me?", Mr Suárez replied "Porque tu eres negro". Mr Evra said that at the time Mr Suárez made that comment, he (Mr Evra) understood it to mean "Because you are a nigger". He now says that he believes the words used by Mr Suárez mean "Because you are black". We shall consider further below Mr Evra's understanding of the Spanish word "negro".
"Why did you kick me?"
'Because you're Black' (porque eres negro)
Not "sorry, negrito, I didn't mean to"
Again, context is everything.
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2020, 12:24:20 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 30, 2020, 12:03:01 PM
Bit of a difference between calling a black french man "negro" in an argument in a heated derby encounter compared to saying "thanks negrito" to a fellow countryman when he congratulates you on Instagram. Context is everything.
Suarez used the term "negrito".
Not saying Cavani did anything wrong.
Yes, you appear to be right on the "negro", not "negrito" thing, although they seem to be pretty much the same thing in their dialect.
I didn't argue the context. Clearly they're different.
Its just the cultural/language issue was dismissed as irrelevant or even bullshit by a lot of people back then.
I get what you're saying but I don't think the cultural issue can be used for Suarez - he was speaking to a French rival in a heated situation... If they'd been having a friendly chat after the game then that could be a reasonable excuse for Suarez but not shouting "go for it/ok black boy".
Yes, fair enough.
Big result for Scott Parkers Fulham tonight.
FA Cup 3rd round draw.
1 Huddersfield Town v Plymouth Argyle
2 Southampton v Shrewsbury Town
3 Chorley v Derby County
4 Marine v Tottenham Hotspur
5 Wolverhampton Wanderers v Crystal Palace
6 Stockport County v West Ham United
7 Oldham Athletic v AFC Bournemouth
8 Manchester United v Watford
9 Stevenage v Swansea City
10 Everton v Rotherham United
11 Nottingham Forest v Cardiff City
12 Arsenal v Newcastle United
13 Barnsley v Tranmere Rovers
14 Bristol Rovers v Sheffield United
15 Canvey Island or Boreham Wood v Millwall
16 Blackburn Rovers v Doncaster Rovers
17 Stoke City v Leicester City
18 Wycombe Wanderers v Preston North End
19 Crawley Town v Leeds United
20 Burnley v Milton Keynes Dons
21 Bristol City v Portsmouth
22 Queens Park Rangers v Fulham
23 Aston Villa v Liverpool
24 Brentford v Middlesbrough
25 Manchester City v Birmingham City
26 Luton Town v Reading
27 Chelsea v Morecambe
28 Exeter City v Sheffield Wednesday
29 Norwich City v Coventry City
30 Blackpool v West Bromwich Albion
31 Newport County v Brighton & Hove Albion
32 Cheltenham Town v Mansfield Town
Tough draw for Liverpool but a chance to avenge the 7 2.
Quote from: Armamike on November 30, 2020, 09:04:43 PM
Tough draw for Liverpool but a chance to avenge the 7 2.
Does not matter who Liverpool drew, Klopp will see it as a night off! He and Fenway care little for the competiion.
Quote from: ziggy90 on November 23, 2020, 07:02:29 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 23, 2020, 03:29:34 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on November 23, 2020, 03:18:34 PM
Yeah I take your point on that, Trez did make a complete meal of it. Dean Smith said the whole ground could hear the thud of the contact, and I assume that played into the ref's original decision too.
If there was such a thud I doubt the ref would even have considered reviewing the decision. And in all honesty how on earth could such a slight contact, if any, could have caused such an earth trembling thud?
It made my day. :D
No doubt you enjoyed last night too lol.
The dreaded sleeve in an offside position, just like Bamford a few weeks ago. Plus it isn't a foul cos he's offside? I actually haven't a clue of the rules.
West Ham with 2 shots and come away with the win, having been brutal for 88 mins of football.
Quote from: lurganblue on December 01, 2020, 09:23:18 AM
Quote from: ziggy90 on November 23, 2020, 07:02:29 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 23, 2020, 03:29:34 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on November 23, 2020, 03:18:34 PM
Yeah I take your point on that, Trez did make a complete meal of it. Dean Smith said the whole ground could hear the thud of the contact, and I assume that played into the ref's original decision too.
If there was such a thud I doubt the ref would even have considered reviewing the decision. And in all honesty how on earth could such a slight contact, if any, could have caused such an earth trembling thud?
It made my day. :D
No doubt you enjoyed last night too lol.
The dreaded sleeve in an offside position, just like Bamford a few weeks ago. Plus it isn't a foul cos he's offside? I actually haven't a clue of the rules.
West Ham with 2 shots and come away with the win, having been brutal for 88 mins of football.
I have no idea how Villa didn't win by 3 clear goals last night, never mind losing the game.
Quote from: lurganblue on December 01, 2020, 09:23:18 AM
Quote from: ziggy90 on November 23, 2020, 07:02:29 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 23, 2020, 03:29:34 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on November 23, 2020, 03:18:34 PM
Yeah I take your point on that, Trez did make a complete meal of it. Dean Smith said the whole ground could hear the thud of the contact, and I assume that played into the ref's original decision too.
If there was such a thud I doubt the ref would even have considered reviewing the decision. And in all honesty how on earth could such a slight contact, if any, could have caused such an earth trembling thud?
It made my day. :D
No doubt you enjoyed last night too lol.
The dreaded sleeve in an offside position, just like Bamford a few weeks ago. Plus it isn't a foul cos he's offside? I actually haven't a clue of the rules.
West Ham with 2 shots and come away with the win, having been brutal for 88 mins of football.
Not to mention, the only reason Watkins sleeve / arm was offside was because he was being held back by the defender!
It's really killing the game. I don't know how they can get it so wrong, how can people be involved in the game yet so out of touch.
(https://images.ladbible.com/fit?type=jpeg&url=http://beta.ems.ladbiblegroup.com/s3/content/64681d955fc35e063d946c2a44fad634.jpg&quality=70&width=720&height=420)
Should everyone follow the Dutch model?
To put it in simple terms. If you need to draw lines to adjudicate the decision, then the player is level. If the player is offside then the naked eye with the aid of video should be able to see that. This is not why the offside law was invented. In this example Watkins did not gain an unfair advantage on the defender. They are applying a level of detail to a law that was not invented to be implemented in such a way.
The argument that decisions for and against will level out for each team over time may hold through, given a large enough sample size. But meanwhile the games have fewer goals scored and the initial joy of many good goals is sucked out of the game through fear of being chalked off. It's meant to be fun - enjoyable. VAR (or at least the implementation of VAR) is anti-fun.
The offside scrutiny really never seemed to be the intent of var. It was for clear and obvious errors. They have made an utter balls of it.
Oliver Holt pointed out on Twitter that people have no issue with a goal not been given because 5mm if the ball has not crossed the line so how can they have issue with you been 5mm offside. Interesting view
Quote from: pbat on December 01, 2020, 01:00:36 PM
Oliver Holt pointed out on Twitter that people have no issue with a goal not been given because 5mm if the ball has not crossed the line so how can they have issue with you been 5mm offside. Interesting view
The issue is it's totally arbitrary in what it decides to "look" at, that's my problem with it.
Quote from: pbat on December 01, 2020, 01:00:36 PM
Oliver Holt pointed out on Twitter that people have no issue with a goal not been given because 5mm if the ball has not crossed the line so how can they have issue with you been 5mm offside. Interesting view
Oliver Holt is a good one for talking sh*te right enough. The ball crosses the goal line, that is simple enough. Measuring the exact moment the ball leaves a players foot, then applying wee lines to the sleeves of a player from a camera recording leaves quite a scope for human error.
Lurganblue I think Holt's point still stands.
Fans don't want to believe that 1mm offside is actually offside. Human error isn't the key consideration, it's people feeling robbed when it happens by the minimum of distances. Hence people describe VAR as luck. It not. It just makes it feel like that.
——
I hate VAR by the way.
I'm very much in favour of VAR, but not in favour of the people who implement it!
They've basically changed what "level" means for the offside rule.
The rule used to be that if you were level you were onside. Now they've pretty much removed the concept of "level". To the naked eye, any reasonable person would conclude Watkins was level, and therefore onside. But the way there are using technology, it's similar to horse racing or the 100m, technically there is a tiny tiny chance of actually being level, but it's as rare as hen's teeth.
IMO, for VAR reviews, they should have a single line a half-yard in front of the players so the official has the correct line of vision / aspect, and then the official uses his judgement on whether they are level or whether the forward is in front. This would have the effect of leaving the rule as it was pre-VAR, but getting the decision right in case a linesman made a mistake.
Quote from: thewobbler on December 01, 2020, 01:18:44 PM
Lurganblue I think Holt's point still stands.
Fans don't want to believe that 1mm offside is actually offside. Human error isn't the key consideration, it's people feeling robbed when it happens by the minimum of distances. Hence people describe VAR as luck. It not. It just makes it feel like that.
——
I hate VAR by the way.
The problem is that the margin is miniscule and they cannot be definitive with many of the aspects, thus it is prone to error or ridiculousness.
Quote from: lurganblue on December 01, 2020, 09:23:18 AM
Quote from: ziggy90 on November 23, 2020, 07:02:29 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 23, 2020, 03:29:34 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on November 23, 2020, 03:18:34 PM
Yeah I take your point on that, Trez did make a complete meal of it. Dean Smith said the whole ground could hear the thud of the contact, and I assume that played into the ref's original decision too.
If there was such a thud I doubt the ref would even have considered reviewing the decision. And in all honesty how on earth could such a slight contact, if any, could have caused such an earth trembling thud?
It made my day. :D
No doubt you enjoyed last night too lol.
The dreaded sleeve in an offside position, just like Bamford a few weeks ago. Plus it isn't a foul cos he's offside? I actually haven't a clue of the rules.
West Ham with 2 shots and come away with the win, having been brutal for 88 mins of football.
I did indeed. :D But that said VAR is ruining the game. Imagine if that had happened at a full Vile Park in a crucial game? There's every chance that decision could have caused a full scale riot? Well at least it would if it happened at St Andrew's. ;)
Quote from: thewobbler on December 01, 2020, 01:18:44 PM
Lurganblue I think Holt's point still stands.
Fans don't want to believe that 1mm offside is actually offside. Human error isn't the key consideration, it's people feeling robbed when it happens by the minimum of distances. Hence people describe VAR as luck. It not. It just makes it feel like that.
——
I hate VAR by the way.
What is the intent of the law in question?
It is clear what the intent is when we say that all of the ball must have crossed the line. It's there for good reason.
Why was offside brought in? Basically to stop goal hanging. To cut out the attacking team gaining an unfair advantage. Being "offside" by a couple of millimetres was never the intention. But that's where we are now.
Completely agree Shark, I posted similar a few weeks ago.
The rules of soccer were devised to ensure a free flowing spectacle. Not this.
——
VAR would have some craic adjudicating whether Clifford's 5th step was before, during or after his jersey was tugged, and whether the subsequent wide should stay a wide, or become a free in, or a free out.
The offside rule is a bit of a joke and it seems to change every couple of years what is offside and what isn't.
When they had the daylight rule they had it right.
Quote from: lurganblue on December 01, 2020, 01:10:02 PM
Quote from: pbat on December 01, 2020, 01:00:36 PM
Oliver Holt pointed out on Twitter that people have no issue with a goal not been given because 5mm if the ball has not crossed the line so how can they have issue with you been 5mm offside. Interesting view
Oliver Holt is a good one for talking sh*te right enough. The ball crosses the goal line, that is simple enough. Measuring the exact moment the ball leaves a players foot, then applying wee lines to the sleeves of a player from a camera recording leaves quite a scope for human error.
Exactly. There is only one variable to be looked at with goal line technology: the relative positions of the ball and the line.
Not the case with offside, as you point out, with the movements and body positions of multiple players having to be synchronized with the exact moment the ball is struck by the passing player.
Dumb comparison.
Is it that complicated though j70?
They'll be able to pinpoint the time that a ball left a boot to a thousandth of a second. Then it's a case of looking at the area of contention at that exact frame (then drawing lots of lines on top).
What am I missing ?
Quote from: thewobbler on December 01, 2020, 07:14:44 PM
Is it that complicated though j70?
They'll be able to pinpoint the time that a ball left a boot to a thousandth of a second. Then it's a case of looking at the area of contention at that exact frame (then drawing lots of lines on top).
What am I missing ?
According to the diagram someone posted on the previous page about the Dutch League, there is a possibility of up to 20 cm error in terms of player positions where the contact with the ball happens between frames.
I'm sure they look at the before and after frames in those cases, but that is still human subjectivity ruling out goals based on literal millimetres and the position of the folds of someone's sleeve.
As an aside, if we're looking a millisecond by millisecond frames, how do they determine when exactly a boot ceases to contact a ball? Is it based on clear space between them?
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2020, 07:45:37 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 01, 2020, 07:14:44 PM
Is it that complicated though j70?
They'll be able to pinpoint the time that a ball left a boot to a thousandth of a second. Then it's a case of looking at the area of contention at that exact frame (then drawing lots of lines on top).
What am I missing ?
According to the diagram someone posted on the previous page about the Dutch League, there is a possibility of up to 20 cm error in terms of player positions where the contact with the ball happens between frames.
I'm sure they look at the before and after frames in those cases, but that is still human subjectivity ruling out goals based on literal millimetres and the position of the folds of someone's sleeve.
As an aside, if we're looking a millisecond by millisecond frames, how do they determine when exactly a boot ceases to contact a ball? Is it based on clear space between them?
According to the diagram in question, the calculation is based on 50 frames per second, which is confirmed by the premier league website. Working back from the 50fps, or 0.02seconds in between frames, someone running at 36km/hr would move 20cm in between frames.
Would like to slightly tweak the stance the Dutch league are taking and amend the rule that anything within that margin of technology error reverts to the on-field call. This would be similar to VAR rules in that it is not a clear and obvious error
https://www.premierleague.com/news/1488423 (https://www.premierleague.com/news/1488423)
QuoteThe broadcast cameras operate with 50 frames per second, so the point of contact with the ball is one of those frames inside the 50 per second.
Interesting aside though - it is possible to further pinpoint the time of pass being played using high frame rate technology, and I presume this is just a matter of time, but it would be need to be rolled out at a huge scale so not sure how difficult / costly that would be
https://pro.sony/en_FI/technology/high-frame-rate (https://pro.sony/en_FI/technology/high-frame-rate)
I like the Dutch league version of 20cm.Then you could have any close decision that the assistant isn't sure of done up like hawkeye, up on the large screen inside 10 seconds, a drum roll or two while the 20 cm line is outlined, followed by a Níl or Tá.
Lampard is doing a brilliant job. Fair play to him.
Quote from: ONeill on December 03, 2020, 09:48:04 PM
Lampard is doing a brilliant job. Fair play to him.
I see lots of this but is he? 3 points more than a United side who've a game in hand who apparently have a manger who hasn't got a clue who's constantly mocked in the media whilst Lampard who inherited a very good squad and has since spent a fortune this summer.
I don't think Ole is upto to it but will be delighted to be proved wrong but their clearly not treated the same way by the media. Chelsea are on a decent run of form with 3 wins out of the last 4 league games but have played the bottom 2 teams in the league in that period.
I have no idea how Lampard will work out at Chelsea but with the squad he's got they've have to be finishing top 3.
Wasn't that long ago in this thread men were saying Lampard was for the sack. Have only conceded 2 goals in 10 games or something now?
Gave Sevilla a right hammering the other night there too. Saying that it was both B Teams.
Never mind Lampard, Arteta is the new media darling. Up until this week it was constant drivel about him 'building something special' etc, yet look at their results.
Arteta has the FA Cup in the bag though. I think if he didn't win that he'd be getting hammered a bit more. I was actually surprised to see how poorly they've been doing though. Sunday will tell a tale.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 04, 2020, 10:20:21 AM
Wasn't that long ago in this thread men were saying Lampard was for the sack. Have only conceded 2 goals in 10 games or something now?
Gave Sevilla a right hammering the other night there too. Saying that it was both B Teams.
Dumping Kepa from the team has made the defensive difference it seems. He was a complete liability.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 04, 2020, 10:18:26 AM
Quote from: ONeill on December 03, 2020, 09:48:04 PM
Lampard is doing a brilliant job. Fair play to him.
I see lots of this but is he? 3 points more than a United side who've a game in hand who apparently have a manger who hasn't got a clue who's constantly mocked in the media whilst Lampard who inherited a very good squad and has since spent a fortune this summer.
I don't think Ole is upto to it but will be delighted to be proved wrong but their clearly not treated the same way by the media. Chelsea are on a decent run of form with 3 wins out of the last 4 league games but have played the bottom 2 teams in the league in that period.
I have no idea how Lampard will work out at Chelsea but with the squad he's got they've have to be finishing top 3.
I defy anybody to tell me that beating Burnley, Sheffield United and Newcastle in successive games, with an already very expensive squad boosted by £222 million worth of summer signings, isn't a truly outstanding managerial performance
It's Bob Paisleyesque
You really don't like Frank Lampard lol
Plus with Arsenal, you only have to look at the easy time certain players get. Take Pogba at United, the amount of grief he gets is unreal, most of it deserved mind you. But you look at Pepe, who cost nearly as much as Pogba, yet gets very little grief and he has been very poor. Suppose you could nearly fire Havertz out there too, been very disappointing so far and Werner hasnt exactly set the world alight either.
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 04, 2020, 12:11:13 PM
You really don't like Frank Lampard lol
On the contrary, on the contrary
Arranging Pulisic, Werner, Ziyech and Havertz into a formation which can unlock the defences of Burnley, Sheffield United and Newcastle is an act of managerial genius on a par with Dessie Farrell lining up Con O'Callaghan, Ciaran Kilkenny, Dean Rock, Brian Fenton, Paul Mannion and Brian Howard into a formation which can unlock the Laois defence
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 04, 2020, 12:11:13 PM
You really don't like Frank Lampard lol
Definitely cost him a big bet ;D
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 04, 2020, 12:15:59 PM
Plus with Arsenal, you only have to look at the easy time certain players get. Take Pogba at United, the amount of grief he gets is unreal, most of it deserved mind you. But you look at Pepe, who cost nearly as much as Pogba, yet gets very little grief and he has been very poor. Suppose you could nearly fire Havertz out there too, been very disappointing so far and Werner hasnt exactly set the world alight either.
Havertz is 21 !
How were Salah and De Bruyne getting on at that age? Maybe at the same club or close to it?
Patience patience.
Quote from: shark on December 04, 2020, 12:37:18 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 04, 2020, 12:15:59 PM
Plus with Arsenal, you only have to look at the easy time certain players get. Take Pogba at United, the amount of grief he gets is unreal, most of it deserved mind you. But you look at Pepe, who cost nearly as much as Pogba, yet gets very little grief and he has been very poor. Suppose you could nearly fire Havertz out there too, been very disappointing so far and Werner hasnt exactly set the world alight either.
Havertz is 21 !
How were Salah and De Bruyne getting on at that age? Maybe at the same club or close to it?
Patience patience.
There have also been many 21 year olds who have been thriving, plus Havertz is not some young player that is supposed to be developed. Chelsea paid the guts of a £100 million for a player that is proven and established.
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 04, 2020, 01:27:58 PM
Quote from: shark on December 04, 2020, 12:37:18 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 04, 2020, 12:15:59 PM
Plus with Arsenal, you only have to look at the easy time certain players get. Take Pogba at United, the amount of grief he gets is unreal, most of it deserved mind you. But you look at Pepe, who cost nearly as much as Pogba, yet gets very little grief and he has been very poor. Suppose you could nearly fire Havertz out there too, been very disappointing so far and Werner hasnt exactly set the world alight either.
Havertz is 21 !
How were Salah and De Bruyne getting on at that age? Maybe at the same club or close to it?
Patience patience.
There have also been many 21 year olds who have been thriving, plus Havertz is not some young player that is supposed to be developed. Chelsea paid the guts of a £100 million for a player that is proven and established.
It was 62 + add ons to approx 71 million.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 04, 2020, 01:33:21 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 04, 2020, 01:27:58 PM
Quote from: shark on December 04, 2020, 12:37:18 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 04, 2020, 12:15:59 PM
Plus with Arsenal, you only have to look at the easy time certain players get. Take Pogba at United, the amount of grief he gets is unreal, most of it deserved mind you. But you look at Pepe, who cost nearly as much as Pogba, yet gets very little grief and he has been very poor. Suppose you could nearly fire Havertz out there too, been very disappointing so far and Werner hasnt exactly set the world alight either.
Havertz is 21 !
How were Salah and De Bruyne getting on at that age? Maybe at the same club or close to it?
Patience patience.
There have also been many 21 year olds who have been thriving, plus Havertz is not some young player that is supposed to be developed. Chelsea paid the guts of a £100 million for a player that is proven and established.
It was 62 + add ons to approx 71 million.
And has played 8 games for Chelsea. Eight.
He could end up being the biggest waste of money in football history. I have no idea if his Chelsea career will be looked upon positively or otherwise, when it ends.
But the idea that he is getting an unjustifiably easy time is surely premature.
Pepe I can agree - it's been more than a season now. But he may still come good. Although the signs are not on it.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 04, 2020, 01:33:21 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 04, 2020, 01:27:58 PM
Quote from: shark on December 04, 2020, 12:37:18 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 04, 2020, 12:15:59 PM
Plus with Arsenal, you only have to look at the easy time certain players get. Take Pogba at United, the amount of grief he gets is unreal, most of it deserved mind you. But you look at Pepe, who cost nearly as much as Pogba, yet gets very little grief and he has been very poor. Suppose you could nearly fire Havertz out there too, been very disappointing so far and Werner hasnt exactly set the world alight either.
Havertz is 21 !
How were Salah and De Bruyne getting on at that age? Maybe at the same club or close to it?
Patience patience.
There have also been many 21 year olds who have been thriving, plus Havertz is not some young player that is supposed to be developed. Chelsea paid the guts of a £100 million for a player that is proven and established.
It was 62 + add ons to approx 71 million.
Most sources had it at 80 million euro with 20 million add-ons.
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 04, 2020, 02:36:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 04, 2020, 01:33:21 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 04, 2020, 01:27:58 PM
Quote from: shark on December 04, 2020, 12:37:18 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 04, 2020, 12:15:59 PM
Plus with Arsenal, you only have to look at the easy time certain players get. Take Pogba at United, the amount of grief he gets is unreal, most of it deserved mind you. But you look at Pepe, who cost nearly as much as Pogba, yet gets very little grief and he has been very poor. Suppose you could nearly fire Havertz out there too, been very disappointing so far and Werner hasnt exactly set the world alight either.
Havertz is 21 !
How were Salah and De Bruyne getting on at that age? Maybe at the same club or close to it?
Patience patience.
There have also been many 21 year olds who have been thriving, plus Havertz is not some young player that is supposed to be developed. Chelsea paid the guts of a £100 million for a player that is proven and established.
It was 62 + add ons to approx 71 million.
Most sources had it at 80 million euro with 20 million add-ons.
Irrespective of cost - the put him in the bracket of Pogba & Pepe after 8 games :o
Plus the lad is only after a 2 week burst with Covid!
Modern Football.
Quote from: Taylor on December 04, 2020, 02:45:15 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 04, 2020, 02:36:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 04, 2020, 01:33:21 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 04, 2020, 01:27:58 PM
Quote from: shark on December 04, 2020, 12:37:18 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 04, 2020, 12:15:59 PM
Plus with Arsenal, you only have to look at the easy time certain players get. Take Pogba at United, the amount of grief he gets is unreal, most of it deserved mind you. But you look at Pepe, who cost nearly as much as Pogba, yet gets very little grief and he has been very poor. Suppose you could nearly fire Havertz out there too, been very disappointing so far and Werner hasnt exactly set the world alight either.
Havertz is 21 !
How were Salah and De Bruyne getting on at that age? Maybe at the same club or close to it?
Patience patience.
There have also been many 21 year olds who have been thriving, plus Havertz is not some young player that is supposed to be developed. Chelsea paid the guts of a £100 million for a player that is proven and established.
It was 62 + add ons to approx 71 million.
Most sources had it at 80 million euro with 20 million add-ons.
Irrespective of cost - the put him in the bracket of Pogba & Pepe after 8 games :o
I agree in principle but my point was that Pogba was heavily criticised as early in his United career and that has continued since.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 04, 2020, 10:20:21 AM
Wasn't that long ago in this thread men were saying Lampard was for the sack. Have only conceded 2 goals in 10 games or something now?
Gave Sevilla a right hammering the other night there too. Saying that it was both B Teams.
He'll be sacked if Chelsea fail to finish in the top 4 with that squad of players. Roman will expect at least one trophy this season also.
Didn't realise Pepe was 25, thought he was 22/23; Its looking like one of the worst transfers of all time, Arsenal will really struggle to get a fraction of what they paid for him.
To be fair to Arteta he clearly has the weakest squad out of United, Chelsea & Arsenal despite Arsenal spending a pretty much identical amount on players to United the last 3 years. Arsenal in a lot of trouble if they don't qualify for the CL, they've lots of good young players but apart from Partey there's not too many top players in their prime; Bellerin looks to have gone backwards the last few years, they've a lot of older players.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 04, 2020, 03:36:10 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 04, 2020, 10:20:21 AM
Wasn't that long ago in this thread men were saying Lampard was for the sack. Have only conceded 2 goals in 10 games or something now?
Gave Sevilla a right hammering the other night there too. Saying that it was both B Teams.
He'll be sacked if Chelsea fail to finish in the top 4 with that squad of players. Roman will expect at least one trophy this season also.
Lampard is a stop gap as Chelsea couldn't buy players last season. No big manager would've taken the job while hamstrung with no new transfers. He'll be gone soon enough, regardless of how well he does.
I've no love for Chelsea but I sort of want him to be successful just for that reason. Then again, Di Matteo won the CL and FA cup and was turfed out a few weeks into the new season.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 04, 2020, 05:20:49 PM
Didn't realise Pepe was 25, thought he was 22/23; Its looking like one of the worst transfers of all time, Arsenal will really struggle to get a fraction of what they paid for him.
To be fair to Arteta he clearly has the weakest squad out of United, Chelsea & Arsenal despite Arsenal spending a pretty much identical amount on players to United the last 3 years. Arsenal in a lot of trouble if they don't qualify for the CL, they've lots of good young players but apart from Partey there's not too many top players in their prime; Bellerin looks to have gone backwards the last few years, they've a lot of older players.
They won't be even close to the Champions League places. Will be something similar to last season, when they were 8th. Their best chance of qualification is probably by winning the Europa League, which is not impossible but very unlikely.
Quote from: BennyCake on December 04, 2020, 05:25:08 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 04, 2020, 03:36:10 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 04, 2020, 10:20:21 AM
Wasn't that long ago in this thread men were saying Lampard was for the sack. Have only conceded 2 goals in 10 games or something now?
Gave Sevilla a right hammering the other night there too. Saying that it was both B Teams.
He'll be sacked if Chelsea fail to finish in the top 4 with that squad of players. Roman will expect at least one trophy this season also.
Lampard is a stop gap as Chelsea couldn’t buy players last season. No big manager would’ve taken the job while hamstrung with no new transfers. He’ll be gone soon enough, regardless of how well he does.
I’ve no love for Chelsea but I sort of want him to be successful just for that reason. Then again, Di Matteo won the CL and FA cup and was turfed out a few weeks into the new season.
Not sure about that. The Chelsea that Lampard took over had finished 3rd in the Premier league and won the Europa league the season before he arrived. No transfers however had the additions of Pulisic, Abraham, Mount.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 04, 2020, 05:51:54 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 04, 2020, 05:25:08 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 04, 2020, 03:36:10 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 04, 2020, 10:20:21 AM
Wasn't that long ago in this thread men were saying Lampard was for the sack. Have only conceded 2 goals in 10 games or something now?
Gave Sevilla a right hammering the other night there too. Saying that it was both B Teams.
He'll be sacked if Chelsea fail to finish in the top 4 with that squad of players. Roman will expect at least one trophy this season also.
Lampard is a stop gap as Chelsea couldn't buy players last season. No big manager would've taken the job while hamstrung with no new transfers. He'll be gone soon enough, regardless of how well he does.
I've no love for Chelsea but I sort of want him to be successful just for that reason. Then again, Di Matteo won the CL and FA cup and was turfed out a few weeks into the new season.
Not sure about that. The Chelsea that Lampard took over had finished 3rd in the Premier league and won the Europa league the season before he arrived. No transfers however had the additions of Pulisic, Abraham, Mount.
Yes but those 3 were unproven at PL level. And Lampard had no choice but to throw in the likes of Mount, Abraham etc. They wouldn't have got much game time had Chelsea been able to spend big.
Chelsea won't be looking for Steve Bruce or Big Sam. They'd have been after the likes of Simeone, who'd want to bring in big players.
This is great ;D
https://youtu.be/jKtRrdZYwHk
Quote from: laoislad on December 04, 2020, 09:01:23 PM
This is great ;D
https://youtu.be/jKtRrdZYwHk
Wonder how he'd manage with the classic: "East Fife 4 Forfar 5"
Super Frank top of the league. Fair play to him. Many have crumbled under the weight of big money at that age.
Quote from: ONeill on December 05, 2020, 09:54:14 PM
Super Frank top of the league. Fair play to him. Many have crumbled under the weight of big money at that age.
:D
I didn't watch it. Was it as feisty an affair as Chelsea v Leeds games tend to be?
Quote from: ziggy90 on December 05, 2020, 10:00:28 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 05, 2020, 09:54:14 PM
Super Frank top of the league. Fair play to him. Many have crumbled under the weight of big money at that age.
:D
I didn't watch it. Was it as feisty an affair as Chelsea v Leeds games tend to be?
Aye, Chopper Harris was up to his old tricks again.
Quote from: BennyCake on December 05, 2020, 10:15:47 PM
Quote from: ziggy90 on December 05, 2020, 10:00:28 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 05, 2020, 09:54:14 PM
Super Frank top of the league. Fair play to him. Many have crumbled under the weight of big money at that age.
:D
I didn't watch it. Was it as feisty an affair as Chelsea v Leeds games tend to be?
Aye, Chopper Harris was up to his old tricks again.
Frank's Old Fella was no shrinking Violet either?
Some of the comments on here about Chelsea are laughable.
Havertz has been very good in the games we have seen him so far. Same can be said for Werner. Both look world class and premier league greats in years to come.
On the subject of Werner have you ever seen a miss like his at the weekend. He stopped his own man's shot going in then missed it from the line.
Harry Kane can f**k away off backing into lads when they're going up for a header too someone is going to get seriously injured with that shit he's at!!
Quote from: screenexile on December 07, 2020, 02:51:43 PM
Harry Kane can f**k away off backing into lads when they're going up for a header too someone is going to get seriously injured with that shit he's at!!
Sir Harry of Kane can do as he pleases....it may be dangerous as f**k but he gets away with it. Funny how his shithousery has increased since Jose became manager....hmmmmm?
https://twitter.com/lfcrubn/status/1335714577095548930?s=20
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 07, 2020, 03:24:18 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 07, 2020, 02:51:43 PM
Harry Kane can f**k away off backing into lads when they're going up for a header too someone is going to get seriously injured with that shit he's at!!
Sir Harry of Kane can do as he pleases....it may be dangerous as f**k but he gets away with it. Funny how his shithousery has increased since Jose became manager....hmmmmm?
Probably more because Mourinho will actually speak to the press, Pochettino was fond of the me no speak Englese when stuff like this was put to him.
Kane's been like this for years, it's got worse with England Captaincy.
There is and has been a lot worse going on in the game than what Harry Kane does, the man is as close as you are going to get to a clean player.
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 07, 2020, 05:58:04 PM
There is and has been a lot worse going on in the game than what Harry Kane does, the man is as close as you are going to get to a clean player.
Are you serious? He deliberately goes under lads who are jumping, ducks down and they then go head first into the ground. Sneaky, cowardly act
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 07, 2020, 06:31:36 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 07, 2020, 05:58:04 PM
There is and has been a lot worse going on in the game than what Harry Kane does, the man is as close as you are going to get to a clean player.
Are you serious? He deliberately goes under lads who are jumping, ducks down and they then go head first into the ground. Sneaky, cowardly act
And yet somehow that list of players who couldn't continue a match after a challenge with/from/near Harry Kane still numbers somewhere between f**k all and squared.
The basics just don't add up for week's feigned football fury.
Didn't know it was even a thing til I checked twitter there. There does seem to be a bit of a theme to it alright :). I'm not sure it's that malicious in fairness, is he not trying to buy a free for himself rather than injure others?
Now that it's been highlighted he'll hardly get away with it as much....
Quote from: Boycey on December 07, 2020, 06:57:56 PM
Didn't know it was even a thing til I checked twitter there. There does seem to be a bit of a theme to it alright :). I'm not sure it's that malicious in fairness, is he not trying to buy a free for himself rather than injure others?
Now that it's been highlighted he'll hardly get away with it as much....
Ah here he clearly looks and waits until the lads are in the air to back into them causing them to fall head first.
Just because nobody has been injured so far doesn't, mean it's not going to happen. It's a booking every time and now it's been highlighted I would hope that's the case!!
He's a phenomenal footballer he doesn't need to do it!
Quote from: thewobbler on December 07, 2020, 06:42:47 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 07, 2020, 06:31:36 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 07, 2020, 05:58:04 PM
There is and has been a lot worse going on in the game than what Harry Kane does, the man is as close as you are going to get to a clean player.
Are you serious? He deliberately goes under lads who are jumping, ducks down and they then go head first into the ground. Sneaky, cowardly act
And yet somehow that list of players who couldn't continue a match after a challenge with/from/near Harry Kane still numbers somewhere between f**k all and squared.
The basics just don't add up for week's feigned football fury.
I'm not saying he's trying to get players hurt deliberately but it's the complete deliberate act of stopping, looking and ducking that makes this a sneaky act. If a player to falls head first from that height they could very easily break and arm or damage a shoulder. Remember Steve Morrow falling off Tony Adams shoulder? The same sort of injury could happen from Kane's actions very easily.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 07, 2020, 07:53:55 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 07, 2020, 06:42:47 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 07, 2020, 06:31:36 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 07, 2020, 05:58:04 PM
There is and has been a lot worse going on in the game than what Harry Kane does, the man is as close as you are going to get to a clean player.
Are you serious? He deliberately goes under lads who are jumping, ducks down and they then go head first into the ground. Sneaky, cowardly act
And yet somehow that list of players who couldn't continue a match after a challenge with/from/near Harry Kane still numbers somewhere between f**k all and squared.
The basics just don't add up for week's feigned football fury.
I'm not saying he's trying to get players hurt deliberately but it's the complete deliberate act of stopping, looking and ducking that makes this a sneaky act. If a player to falls head first from that height they could very easily break and arm or damage a shoulder. Remember Steve Morrow falling off Tony Adams shoulder? The same sort of injury could happen from Kane's actions very easily.
But if that type of injury happened easily from this type of behaviour, and this type of behaviour happened so frequently, surely there would be one case of it to reference? Is it worse than strikers like Shearer or Davies who used to fling their elbows at defenders faces/heads several times a match?
Quote from: screenexile on December 07, 2020, 07:43:13 PM
Quote from: Boycey on December 07, 2020, 06:57:56 PM
Didn't know it was even a thing til I checked twitter there. There does seem to be a bit of a theme to it alright :). I'm not sure it's that malicious in fairness, is he not trying to buy a free for himself rather than injure others?
Now that it's been highlighted he'll hardly get away with it as much....
Ah here he clearly looks and waits until the lads are in the air to back into them causing them to fall head first.
Just because nobody has been injured so far doesn't, mean it's not going to happen. It's a booking every time and now it's been highlighted I would hope that's the case!!
He's a phenomenal footballer he doesn't need to do it!
So we're pretty much in total agreement then?
He bought a penalty against Brighton and Adam Lallana a few weeks ago and has tried it again since. It is cowardly and dangerous. Sooner or later somebody will get badly hurt if keeps trying it.
VAR decision on the Southampton penalty a correct one tonight?
Quote from: Armamike on December 07, 2020, 09:31:44 PM
He bought a penalty against Brighton and Adam Lallana a few weeks ago and has tried it again since. It is cowardly and dangerous. Sooner or later somebody will get badly hurt if keeps trying it.
Questions:
Is it okay for a player to crash through an opponent's back, so long as they're airborne when doing so?
If not, then it was a penalty to Spurs anyway. So no cheating.
But if so, is the risk of hurting their opponent not then unnecessarily high?
If not, then why is football history full of players left prone on the ground from this type of challenge?
If so, then would Kane not be better protecting himself than acting as a trampoline for someone's knees?
—-
Basically there's a man standing his ground and a man flying through the air. The only reason the former can be described as more dangerous is with an agenda.
The wonderful thing about football is how people can view the same incident in completely different ways. From the instances I've seen the past few weeks, Harry Kane is not even attempting to go for the ball - he's taking a look around him to see where the man is and he's crouching down. I see his opponent on those couple of occasions only going for the ball, nothing else. Harry is unlikely to win the ball in those situations because he's backing in, and getting caught under the ball, and his opponent is running on to it. But I would think most players in his position would make an effort to jump and challenge for it anyway once they've committed. To crouch down the way he does is dangerous imo, leaving the opponent way off balance. I think it's a phase he's going through. He'll cut it out.
https://youtu.be/1eSHy3nJwH4
Player suffered a broken neck in 3 places from a fall similar to the one that a number of players have suffered due to Kane's deliberate actions.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 08, 2020, 06:59:09 AM
https://youtu.be/1eSHy3nJwH4
Player suffered a broken neck in 3 places from a fall similar to the one that a number of players have suffered due to Kane's deliberate actions.
Is it a foul to back into someone, players back into people all over the pitch, you'd be blowing all game...
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 07, 2020, 03:29:51 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 07, 2020, 03:24:18 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 07, 2020, 02:51:43 PM
Harry Kane can f**k away off backing into lads when they're going up for a header too someone is going to get seriously injured with that shit he's at!!
Sir Harry of Kane can do as he pleases....it may be dangerous as f**k but he gets away with it. Funny how his shithousery has increased since Jose became manager....hmmmmm?
Probably more because Mourinho will actually speak to the press, Pochettino was fond of the me no speak Englese when stuff like this was put to him.
Kane's been like this for years, it's got worse with England Captaincy.
+1 on Kane. Shouting at referees consistently Jordan Henderson is a another mouth. He is s great player too let's himself him down with conduct towards referees. When don't referees book players for this? Lewis Dunk was at it for Brighton last night.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 08, 2020, 09:17:22 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 08, 2020, 06:59:09 AM
https://youtu.be/1eSHy3nJwH4
Player suffered a broken neck in 3 places from a fall similar to the one that a number of players have suffered due to Kane's deliberate actions.
Is it a foul to back into someone, players back into people all over the pitch, you'd be blowing all game...
When you back into someone who is in mid air that is dangerous play. As a ref you know that you have to use your discretion. Gaelic is more physical than soccer but you cannot for instance shoulder someone in mid air. The issue with Kane, and anyone else who might do it as far as I am concerned, is that he initiates the contact with the player with no attempt by himself to play the ball. To do it once is fine but he has done it 3-4 times in recent games and in my opinion that is a deliberate attempt to get a free time in a potentially very dangerous way.
He initiated contact before by simply diving, this is an evolution of that
Previously people never noticed or bothered with Spurs in the league, i.e. until this season, now the arrows are flinging non stop, I wonder why.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 08, 2020, 09:17:22 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 08, 2020, 06:59:09 AM
https://youtu.be/1eSHy3nJwH4
Player suffered a broken neck in 3 places from a fall similar to the one that a number of players have suffered due to Kane's deliberate actions.
Is it a foul to back into someone, players back into people all over the pitch, you'd be blowing all game...
Depends what you mean by backing into someone.
Leaning back on the defender behind you like, say, Kenny Dalglish used to expertly do, basically sitting on his thigh, and then rolling him, basketball style, is a perfectly legitimate part of the game, as long as you're in control of the ball.
What Kane did, making no attempt to play the ball and merely stooping or ducking into the space when the opponent has his eye on the ball and is expecting you to also jump, is dangerous and a foul.
When I used to play in the shittiest of shit levels in Dublin, it was called "making a back". Not sure if that label is used elsewhere.
Quote from: J70 on December 09, 2020, 12:35:36 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 08, 2020, 09:17:22 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 08, 2020, 06:59:09 AM
https://youtu.be/1eSHy3nJwH4
Player suffered a broken neck in 3 places from a fall similar to the one that a number of players have suffered due to Kane's deliberate actions.
Is it a foul to back into someone, players back into people all over the pitch, you'd be blowing all game...
Depends what you mean by backing into someone.
Leaning back on the defender behind you like, say, Kenny Dalglish used to expertly do, basically sitting on his thigh, and then rolling him, basketball style, is a perfectly legitimate part of the game, as long as you're in control of the ball.
What Kane did, making no attempt to play the ball and merely stooping or ducking into the space when the opponent has his eye on the ball and is expecting you to also jump, is dangerous and a foul.
When I used to play in the shittiest of shit levels in Dublin, it was called "making a back". Not sure if that label is used elsewhere.
When the ball is being played, be it a high ball or low ball, plenty players will 'back' into a player before they have control of the ball, stooping has been done also, and I can't remember too many calls for fouls before.
If you are going to do that, then plenty of defending players will all jump forward on the ball (and into the back of a player) knowing that it will draw a foul as the attacker will naturally stoop to protect himself in most occasions.
If Kane is doing this on purpose, its a hard one I'd imagine, for the ref to actually pull him for
There's the normal pushing back and standing your ground. Then there's what Kane did in those clips. He was correctly pulled for it, and I've seen plenty of players pulled for it in the past. Stooping down and upending an opponent going up for a header is a foul, and always has been.
The flinging himself to the ground on contact isnt getting mentioned enough either
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on December 09, 2020, 10:43:49 AM
The flinging himself to the ground on contact isnt getting mentioned enough either
That's just a given for Sir Harry
Look there was contact. Ah but it was minimal. Ah but according to the rules of the game it was a foul. Ah but it's a man's game. Ah but it's cheating. Ah but it can't be cheating if not against the rules. Ah but it's unsporting. Ah what's that got to do with anything? Ah would you raise your kids to do that? Ah much sooner than I would than allow them t behave like [player] from [derogatory nickname for your club], who you always defend. Ah but he just super competitive, you can't expect him to take the edge out of his game. Ah snooze. This is pointless.
—-
As sure as the sun comes up every day, football fans will unrepentantly describe identical scenarios in polar opposite ways, depending on the colour of the shirts of those involved.
Not sure where to post but here will do.
The incident in last night's PSG game, racist or non racist? I'm going for non racist, a mis-interpretation... But I look forward to possibly being told I am a dinosaur...
Quote from: Boycey on December 09, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Not sure where to post but here will do.
The incident in last night's PSG game, racist or non racist? I'm going for non racist, a mis-interpretation... But I look forward to possibly being told I am a dinosaur...
I agree with you. It was a descriptive term to locate which player needed to be booked, amongst presumably a group of white players. Obviously the linesman shouldve used his name or number instead, but its not racism.
And, if the roles were reversed and it was "the white guy" in a group of black players. It wouldnt be deemed to be racist. The double standards are shocking as well.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 09, 2020, 02:31:55 PM
Quote from: Boycey on December 09, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Not sure where to post but here will do.
The incident in last night's PSG game, racist or non racist? I'm going for non racist, a mis-interpretation... But I look forward to possibly being told I am a dinosaur...
I agree with you. It was a descriptive term to locate which player needed to be booked, amongst presumably a group of white players. Obviously the linesman shouldve used his name or number instead, but its not racism.
And, if the roles were reversed and it was "the white guy" in a group of black players. It wouldnt be deemed to be racist. The double standards are shocking as well.
Dunno about that, East Europeans have a history of racism. I know, that's racist too!
John Barnes is asking questions about the "racist" claim.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 09, 2020, 02:31:55 PM
Quote from: Boycey on December 09, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Not sure where to post but here will do.
The incident in last night's PSG game, racist or non racist? I'm going for non racist, a mis-interpretation... But I look forward to possibly being told I am a dinosaur...
I agree with you. It was a descriptive term to locate which player needed to be booked, amongst presumably a group of white players. Obviously the linesman shouldve used his name or number instead, but its not racism.
And, if the roles were reversed and it was "the white guy" in a group of black players. It wouldnt be deemed to be racist. The double standards are shocking as well.
Spot on.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 09, 2020, 02:31:55 PM
Quote from: Boycey on December 09, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Not sure where to post but here will do.
The incident in last night's PSG game, racist or non racist? I'm going for non racist, a mis-interpretation... But I look forward to possibly being told I am a dinosaur...
I agree with you. It was a descriptive term to locate which player needed to be booked, amongst presumably a group of white players. Obviously the linesman shouldve used his name or number instead, but its not racism.
And, if the roles were reversed and it was "the white guy" in a group of black players. It wouldnt be deemed to be racist. The double standards are shocking as well.
I think it was almost certainly a misunderstanding involving clumsy and poorly chosen language exacerbated by a language barrier but at the same time I would not blame Demba Ba and assistant Pierre Webo for reacting the way they did, given that they both almost certainly have extensive lived experience of racism
I think it probably highlights that it would be better if they were some sort of formalised language around player identification
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 09, 2020, 06:42:44 PM
John Barnes is asking questions about the "racist" claim.
What I find interesting about John Barnes as a public figure these days is that he is regularly quoted by white people who are essentially trying to downplay or dismiss racism
But the people who quote him tend to not understand the nuances of Barnes's arguments on the subject of racism as a whole
Barnes is actually pretty radical and his critique of racism goes much, much deeper than your standard bland platitudes - his critique is about the whole structure and culture of majority white societies
What he
doesn't do is point to individuals who utter racist words and say "the way to solve this is by vilifying the individual who utters the racist words", he looks much deeper than that - at the culture and societal structure that perpetuates racism - and how it can be changed
Barnes essentially argues that white majority societies, particularly white colonial societies such as Britain and the US, are white supremacist - that this white supremacism is perpetuated by bad media, bad education, bad history and any amount of bad, right-wing government policy
And that until that is rectified, the culture of racism will continue
He argues that the pulling down of racist symbols is mere tokenism without a radical change in the structure of society and culture
And that honesty about the culture that perpetuates racism is essential to changing it
This is the sort of critique that is widely and ludicrously vilified by right-wingers as "cultural Marxism"
Yet those same people cherry pick Barnes quotes in a context free fashion to try and back up whatever stupid narrative they're pushing
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 12:53:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 09, 2020, 02:31:55 PM
Quote from: Boycey on December 09, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Not sure where to post but here will do.
The incident in last night's PSG game, racist or non racist? I'm going for non racist, a mis-interpretation... But I look forward to possibly being told I am a dinosaur...
I agree with you. It was a descriptive term to locate which player needed to be booked, amongst presumably a group of white players. Obviously the linesman shouldve used his name or number instead, but its not racism.
And, if the roles were reversed and it was "the white guy" in a group of black players. It wouldnt be deemed to be racist. The double standards are shocking as well.
I think it was almost certainly a misunderstanding involving clumsy and poorly chosen language exacerbated by a language barrier but at the same time I would not blame Demba Ba and assistant Pierre Webo for reacting the way they did, given that they both almost certainly have extensive lived experience of racism
I think it probably highlights that it would be better if they were some sort of formalised language around player identification
That's not the lineman's fault though.
I don't think there is any need for that. As I said, the person should've been identified by his name, but if his name wasn't known, saying the black guy in a group of white people is not racism.
A manager came out in the wake of this incident and said he was referred to as the white guy when working in Africa. That wasn't (and isn't) deemed to be racist. It's all false outrage and double standards though when there is a black person involved.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 01:40:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 12:53:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 09, 2020, 02:31:55 PM
Quote from: Boycey on December 09, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Not sure where to post but here will do.
The incident in last night's PSG game, racist or non racist? I'm going for non racist, a mis-interpretation... But I look forward to possibly being told I am a dinosaur...
I agree with you. It was a descriptive term to locate which player needed to be booked, amongst presumably a group of white players. Obviously the linesman shouldve used his name or number instead, but its not racism.
And, if the roles were reversed and it was "the white guy" in a group of black players. It wouldnt be deemed to be racist. The double standards are shocking as well.
I think it was almost certainly a misunderstanding involving clumsy and poorly chosen language exacerbated by a language barrier but at the same time I would not blame Demba Ba and assistant Pierre Webo for reacting the way they did, given that they both almost certainly have extensive lived experience of racism
I think it probably highlights that it would be better if they were some sort of formalised language around player identification
That's not the lineman's fault though.
I don't think there is any need for that. As I said, the person should've been identified by his name, but if his name wasn't known, saying the black guy in a group of white people is not racism.
A manager came out in the wake of this incident and said he was referred to as the white guy when working in Africa. That wasn't (and isn't) deemed to be racist. It's all false outrage and double standards though when there is a black person involved.
No different than identifying someone with ginger hair if they are in the company of 3 other people with black hair.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 01:40:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 12:53:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 09, 2020, 02:31:55 PM
Quote from: Boycey on December 09, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Not sure where to post but here will do.
The incident in last night's PSG game, racist or non racist? I'm going for non racist, a mis-interpretation... But I look forward to possibly being told I am a dinosaur...
I agree with you. It was a descriptive term to locate which player needed to be booked, amongst presumably a group of white players. Obviously the linesman shouldve used his name or number instead, but its not racism.
And, if the roles were reversed and it was "the white guy" in a group of black players. It wouldnt be deemed to be racist. The double standards are shocking as well.
I think it was almost certainly a misunderstanding involving clumsy and poorly chosen language exacerbated by a language barrier but at the same time I would not blame Demba Ba and assistant Pierre Webo for reacting the way they did, given that they both almost certainly have extensive lived experience of racism
I think it probably highlights that it would be better if they were some sort of formalised language around player identification
That's not the lineman's fault though.
I don't think there is any need for that. As I said, the person should've been identified by his name, but if his name wasn't known, saying the black guy in a group of white people is not racism.
A manager came out in the wake of this incident and said he was referred to as the white guy when working in Africa. That wasn't (and isn't) deemed to be racist. It's all false outrage and double standards though when there is a black person involved.
Rather than dismissing it all as "false outrage" I think you'd be better placed to look at why black players are generally so on guard about potential racist incidents - it's because football has produced a litany of them and because the black players or staff themselves almost certainly have long experience of suffering from racial prejudice
I think it's quite understandable they reacted that way when they believed that a racist slur had been made
But I think the actual incident the other night was largely a misunderstanding
There is a problem with people on the internet jumping to conclusions and sticking to them at all costs which generally makes any sort of discussion around such incidents turn into a shitshow
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 02:07:58 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 01:40:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 12:53:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 09, 2020, 02:31:55 PM
Quote from: Boycey on December 09, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Not sure where to post but here will do.
The incident in last night's PSG game, racist or non racist? I'm going for non racist, a mis-interpretation... But I look forward to possibly being told I am a dinosaur...
I agree with you. It was a descriptive term to locate which player needed to be booked, amongst presumably a group of white players. Obviously the linesman shouldve used his name or number instead, but its not racism.
And, if the roles were reversed and it was "the white guy" in a group of black players. It wouldnt be deemed to be racist. The double standards are shocking as well.
I think it was almost certainly a misunderstanding involving clumsy and poorly chosen language exacerbated by a language barrier but at the same time I would not blame Demba Ba and assistant Pierre Webo for reacting the way they did, given that they both almost certainly have extensive lived experience of racism
I think it probably highlights that it would be better if they were some sort of formalised language around player identification
That's not the lineman's fault though.
I don't think there is any need for that. As I said, the person should've been identified by his name, but if his name wasn't known, saying the black guy in a group of white people is not racism.
A manager came out in the wake of this incident and said he was referred to as the white guy when working in Africa. That wasn't (and isn't) deemed to be racist. It's all false outrage and double standards though when there is a black person involved.
Rather than dismissing it all as "false outrage" I think you'd be better placed to look at why black players are generally so on guard about potential racist incidents - it's because football has produced a litany of them and because the black players or staff themselves almost certainly have long experience of suffering from racial prejudice
I think it's quite understandable they reacted that way when they believed that a racist slur had been made
But I think the actual incident the other night was largely a misunderstanding
There is a problem with people on the internet jumping to conclusions and sticking to them at all costs which generally makes any sort of discussion around such incidents turn into a shitshow
It is absolutely false outrage, because if the roles were reversed, not an eyelid would be bat. It's similar to when James McClean gets his yearly dose, nothing is ever done about it, but when there is a black person involved people are out with their pitchforks to be seen to be being progressive and acting against discrimination when it is anything but. It's selective, and that in itself in detrimental to the whole issue surrounding stamping out racism etc.
You mentioned a formalised language regarding identification needing to be brought in, yet this is what the snowflake generation are already doing. "It's not a snowman it's a snowperson" and the BBC now not allowed to say that a black player has plenty of pace, this type of thing. That is when you know things are turning into a shitshow.
This has lead us to the point now where calling this coach a black man, even though he is a black man, is now "racist" and the linesman faces a 10 game ban, but fans being caught calling the likes of McClean all the Irish fenian c***ts of the day is par for the course.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 02:07:58 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 01:40:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 12:53:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 09, 2020, 02:31:55 PM
Quote from: Boycey on December 09, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Not sure where to post but here will do.
The incident in last night's PSG game, racist or non racist? I'm going for non racist, a mis-interpretation... But I look forward to possibly being told I am a dinosaur...
I agree with you. It was a descriptive term to locate which player needed to be booked, amongst presumably a group of white players. Obviously the linesman shouldve used his name or number instead, but its not racism.
And, if the roles were reversed and it was "the white guy" in a group of black players. It wouldnt be deemed to be racist. The double standards are shocking as well.
I think it was almost certainly a misunderstanding involving clumsy and poorly chosen language exacerbated by a language barrier but at the same time I would not blame Demba Ba and assistant Pierre Webo for reacting the way they did, given that they both almost certainly have extensive lived experience of racism
I think it probably highlights that it would be better if they were some sort of formalised language around player identification
That's not the lineman's fault though.
I don't think there is any need for that. As I said, the person should've been identified by his name, but if his name wasn't known, saying the black guy in a group of white people is not racism.
A manager came out in the wake of this incident and said he was referred to as the white guy when working in Africa. That wasn't (and isn't) deemed to be racist. It's all false outrage and double standards though when there is a black person involved.
Rather than dismissing it all as "false outrage" I think you'd be better placed to look at why black players are generally so on guard about potential racist incidents - it's because football has produced a litany of them and because the black players or staff themselves almost certainly have long experience of suffering from racial prejudice
I think it's quite understandable they reacted that way when they believed that a racist slur had been made
But I think the actual incident the other night was largely a misunderstanding
There is a problem with people on the internet jumping to conclusions and sticking to them at all costs which generally makes any sort of discussion around such incidents turn into a shitshow
It is absolutely false outrage, because if the roles were reversed, not an eyelid would be bat. It's similar to when James McClean gets his yearly dose, nothing is ever done about it, but when there is a black person involved people are out with their pitchforks to be seen to be being progressive and acting against discrimination when it is anything but. It's selective, and that in itself in detrimental to the whole issue surrounding stamping out racism etc.
You mentioned a formalised language regarding identification needing to be brought in, yet this is what the snowflake generation are already doing. "It's not a snowman it's a snowperson" and the BBC now not allowed to say that a black player has plenty of pace, this type of thing. That is when you know things are turning into a shitshow.
This has lead us to the point now where calling this coach a black man, even though he is a black man, is now "racist" and the linesman faces a 10 game ban, but fans being caught calling the likes of McClean all the Irish fenian c***ts of the day is par for the course.
1. No one would bat an eyelid if the roles were reversed because there is no lengthy history of discrimination against white people based on their race.
2. Black athletes were for years stereotyped as muscular, quick and unintelligent. Maybe, for the sake of argument, the reaction has gone too far in the other direction, but that's still better than the alternative.
3. What does fans abusing McClean have to do with the controversy over this game official? Racism is a worldwide problem. The abuse McClean gets, while terrible and something that should be dealt with, is one player making a political stand and the game struggling about what to do with it. I'd say McClean would be embarrassed to have his stance compared to what black people have and have had to deal with.
4. Snowperson... really, this type of silliness is what exercises you?
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 02:55:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 02:07:58 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 01:40:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 12:53:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 09, 2020, 02:31:55 PM
Quote from: Boycey on December 09, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Not sure where to post but here will do.
The incident in last night's PSG game, racist or non racist? I'm going for non racist, a mis-interpretation... But I look forward to possibly being told I am a dinosaur...
I agree with you. It was a descriptive term to locate which player needed to be booked, amongst presumably a group of white players. Obviously the linesman shouldve used his name or number instead, but its not racism.
And, if the roles were reversed and it was "the white guy" in a group of black players. It wouldnt be deemed to be racist. The double standards are shocking as well.
I think it was almost certainly a misunderstanding involving clumsy and poorly chosen language exacerbated by a language barrier but at the same time I would not blame Demba Ba and assistant Pierre Webo for reacting the way they did, given that they both almost certainly have extensive lived experience of racism
I think it probably highlights that it would be better if they were some sort of formalised language around player identification
That's not the lineman's fault though.
I don't think there is any need for that. As I said, the person should've been identified by his name, but if his name wasn't known, saying the black guy in a group of white people is not racism.
A manager came out in the wake of this incident and said he was referred to as the white guy when working in Africa. That wasn't (and isn't) deemed to be racist. It's all false outrage and double standards though when there is a black person involved.
Rather than dismissing it all as "false outrage" I think you'd be better placed to look at why black players are generally so on guard about potential racist incidents - it's because football has produced a litany of them and because the black players or staff themselves almost certainly have long experience of suffering from racial prejudice
I think it's quite understandable they reacted that way when they believed that a racist slur had been made
But I think the actual incident the other night was largely a misunderstanding
There is a problem with people on the internet jumping to conclusions and sticking to them at all costs which generally makes any sort of discussion around such incidents turn into a shitshow
It is absolutely false outrage, because if the roles were reversed, not an eyelid would be bat. It's similar to when James McClean gets his yearly dose, nothing is ever done about it, but when there is a black person involved people are out with their pitchforks to be seen to be being progressive and acting against discrimination when it is anything but. It's selective, and that in itself in detrimental to the whole issue surrounding stamping out racism etc.
You mentioned a formalised language regarding identification needing to be brought in, yet this is what the snowflake generation are already doing. "It's not a snowman it's a snowperson" and the BBC now not allowed to say that a black player has plenty of pace, this type of thing. That is when you know things are turning into a shitshow.
This has lead us to the point now where calling this coach a black man, even though he is a black man, is now "racist" and the linesman faces a 10 game ban, but fans being caught calling the likes of McClean all the Irish fenian c***ts of the day is par for the course.
1. No one would bat an eyelid if the roles were reversed because there is no lengthy history of discrimination against white people based on their race.
2. Black athletes were for years stereotyped as muscular, quick and unintelligent. Maybe, for the sake of argument, the reaction has gone too far in the other direction, but that's still better than the alternative.
3. What does fans abusing McClean have to do with the controversy over this game official? Racism is a worldwide problem. The abuse McClean gets, while terrible and something that should be dealt with, is one player making a political stand and the game struggling about what to do with it. I'd say McClean would be embarrassed to have his stance compared to what black people have and have had to deal with.
4. Snowperson... really, this type of silliness is what exercises you?
1. Doesn't matter. You can't pick and choose. It's either racist or it isn't. In this case it wasn't.
2.Banning saying a black player has pace is the result of the snowflake generation. It's not racist if it's true. This is what we're now having to deal with.
3. I'm highlighting the double standards between both incidents, obviously. McClean didn't make a "political" stand.
4. That is the type of language we are now being almost forced to use, as a result of the false outrage stemming from so called racial or discriminatory incidents.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 03:08:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 02:55:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
It is absolutely false outrage, because if the roles were reversed, not an eyelid would be bat. It's similar to when James McClean gets his yearly dose, nothing is ever done about it, but when there is a black person involved people are out with their pitchforks to be seen to be being progressive and acting against discrimination when it is anything but. It's selective, and that in itself in detrimental to the whole issue surrounding stamping out racism etc.
You mentioned a formalised language regarding identification needing to be brought in, yet this is what the snowflake generation are already doing. "It's not a snowman it's a snowperson" and the BBC now not allowed to say that a black player has plenty of pace, this type of thing. That is when you know things are turning into a shitshow.
This has lead us to the point now where calling this coach a black man, even though he is a black man, is now "racist" and the linesman faces a 10 game ban, but fans being caught calling the likes of McClean all the Irish fenian c***ts of the day is par for the course.
1. No one would bat an eyelid if the roles were reversed because there is no lengthy history of discrimination against white people based on their race.
2. Black athletes were for years stereotyped as muscular, quick and unintelligent. Maybe, for the sake of argument, the reaction has gone too far in the other direction, but that's still better than the alternative.
3. What does fans abusing McClean have to do with the controversy over this game official? Racism is a worldwide problem. The abuse McClean gets, while terrible and something that should be dealt with, is one player making a political stand and the game struggling about what to do with it. I'd say McClean would be embarrassed to have his stance compared to what black people have and have had to deal with.
4. Snowperson... really, this type of silliness is what exercises you?
1. Doesn't matter. You can't pick and choose. It's either racist or it isn't. In this case it wasn't.
2.Banning saying a black player has pace is the result of the snowflake generation. It's not racist if it's true. This is what we're now having to deal with.
3. I'm highlighting the double standards between both incidents, obviously.
4. That is the type of language we are now being almost forced to use, as a result of the false outrage stemming from so called racial or discriminatory incidents.
I left out your conversation with Sid for space purposes.
1. It does matter. There is no historical context for a white person to get offended for being singled out or for having a racial label used against them. Whether or not the present issue is a misunderstanding is not what I'm talking about. Demba Ba and the coach MAY have been mistaken. But at least there is a reason WHY they could have misunderstood and been offended. There would be none for a white person.
2. Again, it may be an overcorrection. Still better than the alternative. Eventually we'll hopefully get to a place where it won't be a potential issue of controversy anymore.
3. There are tons of issues that don't get addressed or for which hypocrisy exists. We haven't had, to my knowledge, any active players come out as gay in top-level soccer. The first ones who do will most probably be subject to a lot of abuse. None of that means that the movement within football to stamp out racist abuse is wrong. Society and institutions never deal with every issue across the board. Its always piecemeal as things evolve.
4. Sorry, but I do not see society's move to be more inclusive, whether its race, belief, gender, sexual orientation as down to false outrage. Real people suffer from casual racism or sexism or homophobia every day of the week. "Snowperson" is a silly, cost-free price to pay. A generation or two from now no one will bat an eyelid at a term like that. And that's a good thing.
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 03:08:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 02:55:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
It is absolutely false outrage, because if the roles were reversed, not an eyelid would be bat. It's similar to when James McClean gets his yearly dose, nothing is ever done about it, but when there is a black person involved people are out with their pitchforks to be seen to be being progressive and acting against discrimination when it is anything but. It's selective, and that in itself in detrimental to the whole issue surrounding stamping out racism etc.
You mentioned a formalised language regarding identification needing to be brought in, yet this is what the snowflake generation are already doing. "It's not a snowman it's a snowperson" and the BBC now not allowed to say that a black player has plenty of pace, this type of thing. That is when you know things are turning into a shitshow.
This has lead us to the point now where calling this coach a black man, even though he is a black man, is now "racist" and the linesman faces a 10 game ban, but fans being caught calling the likes of McClean all the Irish fenian c***ts of the day is par for the course.
1. No one would bat an eyelid if the roles were reversed because there is no lengthy history of discrimination against white people based on their race.
2. Black athletes were for years stereotyped as muscular, quick and unintelligent. Maybe, for the sake of argument, the reaction has gone too far in the other direction, but that's still better than the alternative.
3. What does fans abusing McClean have to do with the controversy over this game official? Racism is a worldwide problem. The abuse McClean gets, while terrible and something that should be dealt with, is one player making a political stand and the game struggling about what to do with it. I'd say McClean would be embarrassed to have his stance compared to what black people have and have had to deal with.
4. Snowperson... really, this type of silliness is what exercises you?
1. Doesn't matter. You can't pick and choose. It's either racist or it isn't. In this case it wasn't.
2.Banning saying a black player has pace is the result of the snowflake generation. It's not racist if it's true. This is what we're now having to deal with.
3. I'm highlighting the double standards between both incidents, obviously.
4. That is the type of language we are now being almost forced to use, as a result of the false outrage stemming from so called racial or discriminatory incidents.
I left out your conversation with Sid for space purposes.
1. It does matter. There is no historical context for a white person to get offended for being singled out or for having a racial label used against them. Whether or not the present issue is a misunderstanding is not what I'm talking about. Demba Ba and the coach MAY have been mistaken. But at least there is a reason WHY they could have misunderstood and been offended. There would be none for a white person.
2. Again, it may be an overcorrection. Still better than the alternative. Eventually we'll hopefully get to a place where it won't be a potential issue of controversy anymore.
3. There are tons of issues that don't get addressed or for which hypocrisy exists. We haven't had, to my knowledge, any active players come out as gay in top-level soccer. The first ones who do will most probably be subject to a lot of abuse. None of that means that the movement within football to stamp out racist abuse is wrong. Society and institutions never deal with every issue across the board. Its always piecemeal as things evolve.
4. Sorry, but I do not see society's move to be more inclusive, whether its race, belief, gender, sexual orientation as down to false outrage. Real people suffer from casual racism or sexism or homophobia every day of the week. "Snowperson" is a silly, cost-free price to pay. A generation or two from now no one will bat an eyelid at a term like that. And that's a good thing.
1. No it doesn't matter and there isn't a reason why. He was labelled as a black man, he is a black man, that is not racist nor is it a racial label. If a man was labelled as a white man amongst black men it wouldn't be racist, so it shouldn't be here. The fact that it is deemed to be racist highlights the false outrage and double standards.
2. We're now at a stage where saying Usain Bolt has plenty of pace is deemed offensive. ;D There is nothing wrong with calling Usain Bolt fast, nor is anything wrong with saying it was the black man in a group of white men. It's only a topic of controversy brought about by snowflakes, and this is now where we're at.
3. They never deal with every issue across the board because it's selective as I've already said. You call a black man a black man and the woke fake-hysteria busybodies have their pitchforks out screaming racism wanting to be seen to be progressive against racism and discrimination but not a peep when there's an issue against a white person, like McClean for example. As a result, they are doing more harm than good for the cause, and a culture of double standards and snowflakism is becoming the norm.
4. The very fact you advocate the term of "snowperson" as well as changing our whole vocabulary to appease the snowflake generation (which you're clearly part of) proves my point. I bet you also get the pitchforks out when a word like this is said, in a bid to be "progressive" leading to victimisation and more harm being done than good.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 02:07:58 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 01:40:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 12:53:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 09, 2020, 02:31:55 PM
Quote from: Boycey on December 09, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Not sure where to post but here will do.
The incident in last night's PSG game, racist or non racist? I'm going for non racist, a mis-interpretation... But I look forward to possibly being told I am a dinosaur...
I agree with you. It was a descriptive term to locate which player needed to be booked, amongst presumably a group of white players. Obviously the linesman shouldve used his name or number instead, but its not racism.
And, if the roles were reversed and it was "the white guy" in a group of black players. It wouldnt be deemed to be racist. The double standards are shocking as well.
I think it was almost certainly a misunderstanding involving clumsy and poorly chosen language exacerbated by a language barrier but at the same time I would not blame Demba Ba and assistant Pierre Webo for reacting the way they did, given that they both almost certainly have extensive lived experience of racism
I think it probably highlights that it would be better if they were some sort of formalised language around player identification
That's not the lineman's fault though.
I don't think there is any need for that. As I said, the person should've been identified by his name, but if his name wasn't known, saying the black guy in a group of white people is not racism.
A manager came out in the wake of this incident and said he was referred to as the white guy when working in Africa. That wasn't (and isn't) deemed to be racist. It's all false outrage and double standards though when there is a black person involved.
Rather than dismissing it all as "false outrage" I think you'd be better placed to look at why black players are generally so on guard about potential racist incidents - it's because football has produced a litany of them and because the black players or staff themselves almost certainly have long experience of suffering from racial prejudice
I think it's quite understandable they reacted that way when they believed that a racist slur had been made
But I think the actual incident the other night was largely a misunderstanding
There is a problem with people on the internet jumping to conclusions and sticking to them at all costs which generally makes any sort of discussion around such incidents turn into a shitshow
It is absolutely false outrage, because if the roles were reversed, not an eyelid would be bat. It's similar to when James McClean gets his yearly dose, nothing is ever done about it, but when there is a black person involved people are out with their pitchforks to be seen to be being progressive and acting against discrimination when it is anything but. It's selective, and that in itself in detrimental to the whole issue surrounding stamping out racism etc.
You mentioned a formalised language regarding identification needing to be brought in, yet this is what the snowflake generation are already doing. "It's not a snowman it's a snowperson" and the BBC now not allowed to say that a black player has plenty of pace, this type of thing. That is when you know things are turning into a shitshow.
This has lead us to the point now where calling this coach a black man, even though he is a black man, is now "racist" and the linesman faces a 10 game ban, but fans being caught calling the likes of McClean all the Irish fenian c***ts of the day is par for the course.
Your post here is very good example of the culture that needs to change
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 03:58:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 03:08:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 02:55:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
It is absolutely false outrage, because if the roles were reversed, not an eyelid would be bat. It's similar to when James McClean gets his yearly dose, nothing is ever done about it, but when there is a black person involved people are out with their pitchforks to be seen to be being progressive and acting against discrimination when it is anything but. It's selective, and that in itself in detrimental to the whole issue surrounding stamping out racism etc.
You mentioned a formalised language regarding identification needing to be brought in, yet this is what the snowflake generation are already doing. "It's not a snowman it's a snowperson" and the BBC now not allowed to say that a black player has plenty of pace, this type of thing. That is when you know things are turning into a shitshow.
This has lead us to the point now where calling this coach a black man, even though he is a black man, is now "racist" and the linesman faces a 10 game ban, but fans being caught calling the likes of McClean all the Irish fenian c***ts of the day is par for the course.
1. No one would bat an eyelid if the roles were reversed because there is no lengthy history of discrimination against white people based on their race.
2. Black athletes were for years stereotyped as muscular, quick and unintelligent. Maybe, for the sake of argument, the reaction has gone too far in the other direction, but that's still better than the alternative.
3. What does fans abusing McClean have to do with the controversy over this game official? Racism is a worldwide problem. The abuse McClean gets, while terrible and something that should be dealt with, is one player making a political stand and the game struggling about what to do with it. I'd say McClean would be embarrassed to have his stance compared to what black people have and have had to deal with.
4. Snowperson... really, this type of silliness is what exercises you?
1. Doesn't matter. You can't pick and choose. It's either racist or it isn't. In this case it wasn't.
2.Banning saying a black player has pace is the result of the snowflake generation. It's not racist if it's true. This is what we're now having to deal with.
3. I'm highlighting the double standards between both incidents, obviously.
4. That is the type of language we are now being almost forced to use, as a result of the false outrage stemming from so called racial or discriminatory incidents.
I left out your conversation with Sid for space purposes.
1. It does matter. There is no historical context for a white person to get offended for being singled out or for having a racial label used against them. Whether or not the present issue is a misunderstanding is not what I'm talking about. Demba Ba and the coach MAY have been mistaken. But at least there is a reason WHY they could have misunderstood and been offended. There would be none for a white person.
2. Again, it may be an overcorrection. Still better than the alternative. Eventually we'll hopefully get to a place where it won't be a potential issue of controversy anymore.
3. There are tons of issues that don't get addressed or for which hypocrisy exists. We haven't had, to my knowledge, any active players come out as gay in top-level soccer. The first ones who do will most probably be subject to a lot of abuse. None of that means that the movement within football to stamp out racist abuse is wrong. Society and institutions never deal with every issue across the board. Its always piecemeal as things evolve.
4. Sorry, but I do not see society's move to be more inclusive, whether its race, belief, gender, sexual orientation as down to false outrage. Real people suffer from casual racism or sexism or homophobia every day of the week. "Snowperson" is a silly, cost-free price to pay. A generation or two from now no one will bat an eyelid at a term like that. And that's a good thing.
1. No it doesn't matter and there isn't a reason why. He was labelled as a black man, he is a black man, that is not racist nor is it a racial label. If a man was labelled as a white man amongst black men it wouldn't be racist, so it shouldn't be here. The fact that it is deemed to be racist highlights the false outrage and double standards.
2. We're now at a stage where saying Usain Bolt has plenty of pace is deemed offensive. ;D There is nothing wrong with calling Usain Bolt fast, nor is anything wrong with saying it was the black man in a group of white men. It's only a topic of controversy brought about by snowflakes, and this is now where we're at.
3. They never deal with every issue across the board because it's selective as I've already said. You call a black man a black man and the woke fake-hysteria busybodies have their pitchforks out screaming racism wanting to be seen to be progressive against racism and discrimination but not a peep when there's an issue against a white person, like McClean for example. As a result, they are doing more harm than good for the cause, and a culture of double standards and snowflakism is becoming the norm.
4. The very fact you advocate the term of "snowperson" as well as changing our whole vocabulary to appease the snowflake generation (which you're clearly part of) proves my point. I bet you also get the pitchforks out when a word like this is said, in a bid to be "progressive" leading to victimisation and more harm being done than good.
Look at the language you're using
"Snowflake" x 3
"woke fake-hysteria busybodies"
"pitchforks"
"appease"
"victimisation" (which is not used not reference to those who are the victims of racism)
The real problem for you is against a white person (does that person suffer abuse because they are white? Did you answer that?)
You can't use language like this and expect people to treat your contributions as being made in good faith or with any sort of an open mind
You seem to think that you and white people are the real victims
To say that totally misses the point would be an understatement, it's just flat out wrong
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 04:02:47 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 02:07:58 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 01:40:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 12:53:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 09, 2020, 02:31:55 PM
Quote from: Boycey on December 09, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Not sure where to post but here will do.
The incident in last night's PSG game, racist or non racist? I'm going for non racist, a mis-interpretation... But I look forward to possibly being told I am a dinosaur...
I agree with you. It was a descriptive term to locate which player needed to be booked, amongst presumably a group of white players. Obviously the linesman shouldve used his name or number instead, but its not racism.
And, if the roles were reversed and it was "the white guy" in a group of black players. It wouldnt be deemed to be racist. The double standards are shocking as well.
I think it was almost certainly a misunderstanding involving clumsy and poorly chosen language exacerbated by a language barrier but at the same time I would not blame Demba Ba and assistant Pierre Webo for reacting the way they did, given that they both almost certainly have extensive lived experience of racism
I think it probably highlights that it would be better if they were some sort of formalised language around player identification
That's not the lineman's fault though.
I don't think there is any need for that. As I said, the person should've been identified by his name, but if his name wasn't known, saying the black guy in a group of white people is not racism.
A manager came out in the wake of this incident and said he was referred to as the white guy when working in Africa. That wasn't (and isn't) deemed to be racist. It's all false outrage and double standards though when there is a black person involved.
Rather than dismissing it all as "false outrage" I think you'd be better placed to look at why black players are generally so on guard about potential racist incidents - it's because football has produced a litany of them and because the black players or staff themselves almost certainly have long experience of suffering from racial prejudice
I think it's quite understandable they reacted that way when they believed that a racist slur had been made
But I think the actual incident the other night was largely a misunderstanding
There is a problem with people on the internet jumping to conclusions and sticking to them at all costs which generally makes any sort of discussion around such incidents turn into a shitshow
It is absolutely false outrage, because if the roles were reversed, not an eyelid would be bat. It's similar to when James McClean gets his yearly dose, nothing is ever done about it, but when there is a black person involved people are out with their pitchforks to be seen to be being progressive and acting against discrimination when it is anything but. It's selective, and that in itself in detrimental to the whole issue surrounding stamping out racism etc.
You mentioned a formalised language regarding identification needing to be brought in, yet this is what the snowflake generation are already doing. "It's not a snowman it's a snowperson" and the BBC now not allowed to say that a black player has plenty of pace, this type of thing. That is when you know things are turning into a shitshow.
This has lead us to the point now where calling this coach a black man, even though he is a black man, is now "racist" and the linesman faces a 10 game ban, but fans being caught calling the likes of McClean all the Irish fenian c***ts of the day is par for the course.
Your post here is very good example of the culture that needs to change
The culture of double standards and fake outrage needs to change
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 02:07:58 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 01:40:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 12:53:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 09, 2020, 02:31:55 PM
Quote from: Boycey on December 09, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Not sure where to post but here will do.
The incident in last night's PSG game, racist or non racist? I'm going for non racist, a mis-interpretation... But I look forward to possibly being told I am a dinosaur...
I agree with you. It was a descriptive term to locate which player needed to be booked, amongst presumably a group of white players. Obviously the linesman shouldve used his name or number instead, but its not racism.
And, if the roles were reversed and it was "the white guy" in a group of black players. It wouldnt be deemed to be racist. The double standards are shocking as well.
I think it was almost certainly a misunderstanding involving clumsy and poorly chosen language exacerbated by a language barrier but at the same time I would not blame Demba Ba and assistant Pierre Webo for reacting the way they did, given that they both almost certainly have extensive lived experience of racism
I think it probably highlights that it would be better if they were some sort of formalised language around player identification
That's not the lineman's fault though.
I don't think there is any need for that. As I said, the person should've been identified by his name, but if his name wasn't known, saying the black guy in a group of white people is not racism.
A manager came out in the wake of this incident and said he was referred to as the white guy when working in Africa. That wasn't (and isn't) deemed to be racist. It's all false outrage and double standards though when there is a black person involved.
Rather than dismissing it all as "false outrage" I think you'd be better placed to look at why black players are generally so on guard about potential racist incidents - it's because football has produced a litany of them and because the black players or staff themselves almost certainly have long experience of suffering from racial prejudice
I think it's quite understandable they reacted that way when they believed that a racist slur had been made
But I think the actual incident the other night was largely a misunderstanding
There is a problem with people on the internet jumping to conclusions and sticking to them at all costs which generally makes any sort of discussion around such incidents turn into a shitshow
It is absolutely false outrage, because if the roles were reversed, not an eyelid would be bat. It's similar to when James McClean gets his yearly dose, nothing is ever done about it, but when there is a black person involved people are out with their pitchforks to be seen to be being progressive and acting against discrimination when it is anything but. It's selective, and that in itself in detrimental to the whole issue surrounding stamping out racism etc.
You mentioned a formalised language regarding identification needing to be brought in, yet this is what the snowflake generation are already doing. "It's not a snowman it's a snowperson" and the BBC now not allowed to say that a black player has plenty of pace, this type of thing. That is when you know things are turning into a shitshow.
This has lead us to the point now where calling this coach a black man, even though he is a black man, is now "racist" and the linesman faces a 10 game ban, but fans being caught calling the likes of McClean all the Irish fenian c***ts of the day is par for the course.
You're right on the McClean thing. Nine years now, and nothing has ever been done about the abuse that he gets. The FA's silence has been deafening for 9 years. F**kin' disgusting.
Its why I have no time for this taking the knee bullshit in football. You can't call a black man a 'black man' but McClean is anything you want to call him. You can f**k right off.
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 04:11:05 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 03:58:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 03:08:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 02:55:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
It is absolutely false outrage, because if the roles were reversed, not an eyelid would be bat. It's similar to when James McClean gets his yearly dose, nothing is ever done about it, but when there is a black person involved people are out with their pitchforks to be seen to be being progressive and acting against discrimination when it is anything but. It's selective, and that in itself in detrimental to the whole issue surrounding stamping out racism etc.
You mentioned a formalised language regarding identification needing to be brought in, yet this is what the snowflake generation are already doing. "It's not a snowman it's a snowperson" and the BBC now not allowed to say that a black player has plenty of pace, this type of thing. That is when you know things are turning into a shitshow.
This has lead us to the point now where calling this coach a black man, even though he is a black man, is now "racist" and the linesman faces a 10 game ban, but fans being caught calling the likes of McClean all the Irish fenian c***ts of the day is par for the course.
1. No one would bat an eyelid if the roles were reversed because there is no lengthy history of discrimination against white people based on their race.
2. Black athletes were for years stereotyped as muscular, quick and unintelligent. Maybe, for the sake of argument, the reaction has gone too far in the other direction, but that's still better than the alternative.
3. What does fans abusing McClean have to do with the controversy over this game official? Racism is a worldwide problem. The abuse McClean gets, while terrible and something that should be dealt with, is one player making a political stand and the game struggling about what to do with it. I'd say McClean would be embarrassed to have his stance compared to what black people have and have had to deal with.
4. Snowperson... really, this type of silliness is what exercises you?
1. Doesn't matter. You can't pick and choose. It's either racist or it isn't. In this case it wasn't.
2.Banning saying a black player has pace is the result of the snowflake generation. It's not racist if it's true. This is what we're now having to deal with.
3. I'm highlighting the double standards between both incidents, obviously.
4. That is the type of language we are now being almost forced to use, as a result of the false outrage stemming from so called racial or discriminatory incidents.
I left out your conversation with Sid for space purposes.
1. It does matter. There is no historical context for a white person to get offended for being singled out or for having a racial label used against them. Whether or not the present issue is a misunderstanding is not what I'm talking about. Demba Ba and the coach MAY have been mistaken. But at least there is a reason WHY they could have misunderstood and been offended. There would be none for a white person.
2. Again, it may be an overcorrection. Still better than the alternative. Eventually we'll hopefully get to a place where it won't be a potential issue of controversy anymore.
3. There are tons of issues that don't get addressed or for which hypocrisy exists. We haven't had, to my knowledge, any active players come out as gay in top-level soccer. The first ones who do will most probably be subject to a lot of abuse. None of that means that the movement within football to stamp out racist abuse is wrong. Society and institutions never deal with every issue across the board. Its always piecemeal as things evolve.
4. Sorry, but I do not see society's move to be more inclusive, whether its race, belief, gender, sexual orientation as down to false outrage. Real people suffer from casual racism or sexism or homophobia every day of the week. "Snowperson" is a silly, cost-free price to pay. A generation or two from now no one will bat an eyelid at a term like that. And that's a good thing.
1. No it doesn't matter and there isn't a reason why. He was labelled as a black man, he is a black man, that is not racist nor is it a racial label. If a man was labelled as a white man amongst black men it wouldn't be racist, so it shouldn't be here. The fact that it is deemed to be racist highlights the false outrage and double standards.
2. We're now at a stage where saying Usain Bolt has plenty of pace is deemed offensive. ;D There is nothing wrong with calling Usain Bolt fast, nor is anything wrong with saying it was the black man in a group of white men. It's only a topic of controversy brought about by snowflakes, and this is now where we're at.
3. They never deal with every issue across the board because it's selective as I've already said. You call a black man a black man and the woke fake-hysteria busybodies have their pitchforks out screaming racism wanting to be seen to be progressive against racism and discrimination but not a peep when there's an issue against a white person, like McClean for example. As a result, they are doing more harm than good for the cause, and a culture of double standards and snowflakism is becoming the norm.
4. The very fact you advocate the term of "snowperson" as well as changing our whole vocabulary to appease the snowflake generation (which you're clearly part of) proves my point. I bet you also get the pitchforks out when a word like this is said, in a bid to be "progressive" leading to victimisation and more harm being done than good.
Look at the language you're using
"Snowflake" x 3
"woke fake-hysteria busybodies"
"pitchforks"
"appease"
"victimisation" (which is not used not reference to those who are the victims of racism)
The real problem for you is against a white person (does that person suffer abuse because they are white? Did you answer that?)
You can't use language like this and expect people to treat your contributions as being made in good faith or with any sort of an open mind
You seem to think that you and white people are the real victims
To say that totally misses the point would be an understatement, it's just flat out wrong
Nothing wrong with the language. You're part of this snowflake and double standards generation that society is now at the behest of, it would seem.
You can't be selective.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 03:58:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 03:08:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 02:55:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
It is absolutely false outrage, because if the roles were reversed, not an eyelid would be bat. It's similar to when James McClean gets his yearly dose, nothing is ever done about it, but when there is a black person involved people are out with their pitchforks to be seen to be being progressive and acting against discrimination when it is anything but. It's selective, and that in itself in detrimental to the whole issue surrounding stamping out racism etc.
You mentioned a formalised language regarding identification needing to be brought in, yet this is what the snowflake generation are already doing. "It's not a snowman it's a snowperson" and the BBC now not allowed to say that a black player has plenty of pace, this type of thing. That is when you know things are turning into a shitshow.
This has lead us to the point now where calling this coach a black man, even though he is a black man, is now "racist" and the linesman faces a 10 game ban, but fans being caught calling the likes of McClean all the Irish fenian c***ts of the day is par for the course.
1. No one would bat an eyelid if the roles were reversed because there is no lengthy history of discrimination against white people based on their race.
2. Black athletes were for years stereotyped as muscular, quick and unintelligent. Maybe, for the sake of argument, the reaction has gone too far in the other direction, but that's still better than the alternative.
3. What does fans abusing McClean have to do with the controversy over this game official? Racism is a worldwide problem. The abuse McClean gets, while terrible and something that should be dealt with, is one player making a political stand and the game struggling about what to do with it. I'd say McClean would be embarrassed to have his stance compared to what black people have and have had to deal with.
4. Snowperson... really, this type of silliness is what exercises you?
1. Doesn't matter. You can't pick and choose. It's either racist or it isn't. In this case it wasn't.
2.Banning saying a black player has pace is the result of the snowflake generation. It's not racist if it's true. This is what we're now having to deal with.
3. I'm highlighting the double standards between both incidents, obviously.
4. That is the type of language we are now being almost forced to use, as a result of the false outrage stemming from so called racial or discriminatory incidents.
I left out your conversation with Sid for space purposes.
1. It does matter. There is no historical context for a white person to get offended for being singled out or for having a racial label used against them. Whether or not the present issue is a misunderstanding is not what I'm talking about. Demba Ba and the coach MAY have been mistaken. But at least there is a reason WHY they could have misunderstood and been offended. There would be none for a white person.
2. Again, it may be an overcorrection. Still better than the alternative. Eventually we'll hopefully get to a place where it won't be a potential issue of controversy anymore.
3. There are tons of issues that don't get addressed or for which hypocrisy exists. We haven't had, to my knowledge, any active players come out as gay in top-level soccer. The first ones who do will most probably be subject to a lot of abuse. None of that means that the movement within football to stamp out racist abuse is wrong. Society and institutions never deal with every issue across the board. Its always piecemeal as things evolve.
4. Sorry, but I do not see society's move to be more inclusive, whether its race, belief, gender, sexual orientation as down to false outrage. Real people suffer from casual racism or sexism or homophobia every day of the week. "Snowperson" is a silly, cost-free price to pay. A generation or two from now no one will bat an eyelid at a term like that. And that's a good thing.
1. No it doesn't matter and there isn't a reason why. He was labelled as a black man, he is a black man, that is not racist nor is it a racial label. If a man was labelled as a white man amongst black men it wouldn't be racist, so it shouldn't be here. The fact that it is deemed to be racist highlights the false outrage and double standards.
2. We're now at a stage where saying Usain Bolt has plenty of pace is deemed offensive. ;D There is nothing wrong with calling Usain Bolt fast, nor is anything wrong with saying it was the black man in a group of white men. It's only a topic of controversy brought about by snowflakes, and this is now where we're at.
3. They never deal with every issue across the board because it's selective as I've already said. You call a black man a black man and the woke fake-hysteria busybodies have their pitchforks out screaming racism wanting to be seen to be progressive against racism and discrimination but not a peep when there's an issue against a white person, like McClean for example. As a result, they are doing more harm than good for the cause, and a culture of double standards and snowflakism is becoming the norm.
4. The very fact you advocate the term of "snowperson" as well as changing our whole vocabulary to appease the snowflake generation (which you're clearly part of) proves my point. I bet you also get the pitchforks out when a word like this is said, in a bid to be "progressive" leading to victimisation and more harm being done than good.
So we're going to get personal here, are we?
1. You can ignore the real world issue of racism against black people and the effect it could have on their perception all you want. It doesn't make it go away.
2. Now you're getting hysterical.
3. McClean is not abused because he is a white person. His race, or anyone else's, has nothing to do with the issue he is making a stand on. The fact that supposedly "there is not a peep" has nothing to do with him being a white person.
4. I never even heard of the term "snowperson" before you raised it this morning. But I might start using it seeing how such a silly, harmless label upsets people like yourself. Victimization indeed.
Quote from: BennyCake on December 10, 2020, 04:16:57 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 02:07:58 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 01:40:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 12:53:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 09, 2020, 02:31:55 PM
Quote from: Boycey on December 09, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Not sure where to post but here will do.
The incident in last night's PSG game, racist or non racist? I'm going for non racist, a mis-interpretation... But I look forward to possibly being told I am a dinosaur...
I agree with you. It was a descriptive term to locate which player needed to be booked, amongst presumably a group of white players. Obviously the linesman shouldve used his name or number instead, but its not racism.
And, if the roles were reversed and it was "the white guy" in a group of black players. It wouldnt be deemed to be racist. The double standards are shocking as well.
I think it was almost certainly a misunderstanding involving clumsy and poorly chosen language exacerbated by a language barrier but at the same time I would not blame Demba Ba and assistant Pierre Webo for reacting the way they did, given that they both almost certainly have extensive lived experience of racism
I think it probably highlights that it would be better if they were some sort of formalised language around player identification
That's not the lineman's fault though.
I don't think there is any need for that. As I said, the person should've been identified by his name, but if his name wasn't known, saying the black guy in a group of white people is not racism.
A manager came out in the wake of this incident and said he was referred to as the white guy when working in Africa. That wasn't (and isn't) deemed to be racist. It's all false outrage and double standards though when there is a black person involved.
Rather than dismissing it all as "false outrage" I think you'd be better placed to look at why black players are generally so on guard about potential racist incidents - it's because football has produced a litany of them and because the black players or staff themselves almost certainly have long experience of suffering from racial prejudice
I think it's quite understandable they reacted that way when they believed that a racist slur had been made
But I think the actual incident the other night was largely a misunderstanding
There is a problem with people on the internet jumping to conclusions and sticking to them at all costs which generally makes any sort of discussion around such incidents turn into a shitshow
It is absolutely false outrage, because if the roles were reversed, not an eyelid would be bat. It's similar to when James McClean gets his yearly dose, nothing is ever done about it, but when there is a black person involved people are out with their pitchforks to be seen to be being progressive and acting against discrimination when it is anything but. It's selective, and that in itself in detrimental to the whole issue surrounding stamping out racism etc.
You mentioned a formalised language regarding identification needing to be brought in, yet this is what the snowflake generation are already doing. "It's not a snowman it's a snowperson" and the BBC now not allowed to say that a black player has plenty of pace, this type of thing. That is when you know things are turning into a shitshow.
This has lead us to the point now where calling this coach a black man, even though he is a black man, is now "racist" and the linesman faces a 10 game ban, but fans being caught calling the likes of McClean all the Irish fenian c***ts of the day is par for the course.
You're right on the McClean thing. Nine years now, and nothing has ever been done about the abuse that he gets. The FA's silence has been deafening for 9 years. F**kin' disgusting.
Its why I have no time for this taking the knee bullshit in football. You can't call a black man a 'black man' but McClean is anything you want to call him. You can f**k right off.
Exactly my point. Selective double standards that is doing more harm than good.
Agree on taking the knee as well, it's an empty gesture at this stage and is being forced on teams now, like their poppies every year too. Both of which shouldn't be in or be part of football.
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 04:23:17 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 03:58:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 03:08:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 02:55:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
It is absolutely false outrage, because if the roles were reversed, not an eyelid would be bat. It's similar to when James McClean gets his yearly dose, nothing is ever done about it, but when there is a black person involved people are out with their pitchforks to be seen to be being progressive and acting against discrimination when it is anything but. It's selective, and that in itself in detrimental to the whole issue surrounding stamping out racism etc.
You mentioned a formalised language regarding identification needing to be brought in, yet this is what the snowflake generation are already doing. "It's not a snowman it's a snowperson" and the BBC now not allowed to say that a black player has plenty of pace, this type of thing. That is when you know things are turning into a shitshow.
This has lead us to the point now where calling this coach a black man, even though he is a black man, is now "racist" and the linesman faces a 10 game ban, but fans being caught calling the likes of McClean all the Irish fenian c***ts of the day is par for the course.
1. No one would bat an eyelid if the roles were reversed because there is no lengthy history of discrimination against white people based on their race.
2. Black athletes were for years stereotyped as muscular, quick and unintelligent. Maybe, for the sake of argument, the reaction has gone too far in the other direction, but that's still better than the alternative.
3. What does fans abusing McClean have to do with the controversy over this game official? Racism is a worldwide problem. The abuse McClean gets, while terrible and something that should be dealt with, is one player making a political stand and the game struggling about what to do with it. I'd say McClean would be embarrassed to have his stance compared to what black people have and have had to deal with.
4. Snowperson... really, this type of silliness is what exercises you?
1. Doesn't matter. You can't pick and choose. It's either racist or it isn't. In this case it wasn't.
2.Banning saying a black player has pace is the result of the snowflake generation. It's not racist if it's true. This is what we're now having to deal with.
3. I'm highlighting the double standards between both incidents, obviously.
4. That is the type of language we are now being almost forced to use, as a result of the false outrage stemming from so called racial or discriminatory incidents.
I left out your conversation with Sid for space purposes.
1. It does matter. There is no historical context for a white person to get offended for being singled out or for having a racial label used against them. Whether or not the present issue is a misunderstanding is not what I'm talking about. Demba Ba and the coach MAY have been mistaken. But at least there is a reason WHY they could have misunderstood and been offended. There would be none for a white person.
2. Again, it may be an overcorrection. Still better than the alternative. Eventually we'll hopefully get to a place where it won't be a potential issue of controversy anymore.
3. There are tons of issues that don't get addressed or for which hypocrisy exists. We haven't had, to my knowledge, any active players come out as gay in top-level soccer. The first ones who do will most probably be subject to a lot of abuse. None of that means that the movement within football to stamp out racist abuse is wrong. Society and institutions never deal with every issue across the board. Its always piecemeal as things evolve.
4. Sorry, but I do not see society's move to be more inclusive, whether its race, belief, gender, sexual orientation as down to false outrage. Real people suffer from casual racism or sexism or homophobia every day of the week. "Snowperson" is a silly, cost-free price to pay. A generation or two from now no one will bat an eyelid at a term like that. And that's a good thing.
1. No it doesn't matter and there isn't a reason why. He was labelled as a black man, he is a black man, that is not racist nor is it a racial label. If a man was labelled as a white man amongst black men it wouldn't be racist, so it shouldn't be here. The fact that it is deemed to be racist highlights the false outrage and double standards.
2. We're now at a stage where saying Usain Bolt has plenty of pace is deemed offensive. ;D There is nothing wrong with calling Usain Bolt fast, nor is anything wrong with saying it was the black man in a group of white men. It's only a topic of controversy brought about by snowflakes, and this is now where we're at.
3. They never deal with every issue across the board because it's selective as I've already said. You call a black man a black man and the woke fake-hysteria busybodies have their pitchforks out screaming racism wanting to be seen to be progressive against racism and discrimination but not a peep when there's an issue against a white person, like McClean for example. As a result, they are doing more harm than good for the cause, and a culture of double standards and snowflakism is becoming the norm.
4. The very fact you advocate the term of "snowperson" as well as changing our whole vocabulary to appease the snowflake generation (which you're clearly part of) proves my point. I bet you also get the pitchforks out when a word like this is said, in a bid to be "progressive" leading to victimisation and more harm being done than good.
So we're going to get personal here, are we?
1. You can ignore the real world issue of racism against black people and the effect it could have on their perception all you want. It doesn't make it go away.
2. Now you're getting hysterical.
3. McClean is not abused because he is a white person. His race, or anyone else's, has nothing to do with the issue he is making a stand on. The fact that supposedly "there is not a peep" has nothing to do with him being a white person.
4. I never even heard of the term "snowperson" before you raised it this morning. But I might start using it seeing how such a silly, harmless label upsets people like yourself. Victimization indeed.
1. I'm not ignoring anything. You can ignore the double standards and fake outrage all you want, but it doesn't make it not true.
2. That's the stage the snowflake generation are bringing us.
3. I'm not talking about what he has made a stand on in the past. I'm highlighting the double standards between the non-issue racist incident of the other night, to the abuse he gets, and the difference in fake outrage between both cases.
4. I'm not upset about it at all. I find it hilarious that people get offended at "snowman" and try to re-write our whole vocabulary because the snowflake generation have their pitchforks out and demand that society conforms to their new way of doing things, or else face public victimisation, which in fact un-dos what they're actually trying to do.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 04:29:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 04:23:17 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 03:58:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 03:08:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 02:55:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
It is absolutely false outrage, because if the roles were reversed, not an eyelid would be bat. It's similar to when James McClean gets his yearly dose, nothing is ever done about it, but when there is a black person involved people are out with their pitchforks to be seen to be being progressive and acting against discrimination when it is anything but. It's selective, and that in itself in detrimental to the whole issue surrounding stamping out racism etc.
You mentioned a formalised language regarding identification needing to be brought in, yet this is what the snowflake generation are already doing. "It's not a snowman it's a snowperson" and the BBC now not allowed to say that a black player has plenty of pace, this type of thing. That is when you know things are turning into a shitshow.
This has lead us to the point now where calling this coach a black man, even though he is a black man, is now "racist" and the linesman faces a 10 game ban, but fans being caught calling the likes of McClean all the Irish fenian c***ts of the day is par for the course.
1. No one would bat an eyelid if the roles were reversed because there is no lengthy history of discrimination against white people based on their race.
2. Black athletes were for years stereotyped as muscular, quick and unintelligent. Maybe, for the sake of argument, the reaction has gone too far in the other direction, but that's still better than the alternative.
3. What does fans abusing McClean have to do with the controversy over this game official? Racism is a worldwide problem. The abuse McClean gets, while terrible and something that should be dealt with, is one player making a political stand and the game struggling about what to do with it. I'd say McClean would be embarrassed to have his stance compared to what black people have and have had to deal with.
4. Snowperson... really, this type of silliness is what exercises you?
1. Doesn't matter. You can't pick and choose. It's either racist or it isn't. In this case it wasn't.
2.Banning saying a black player has pace is the result of the snowflake generation. It's not racist if it's true. This is what we're now having to deal with.
3. I'm highlighting the double standards between both incidents, obviously.
4. That is the type of language we are now being almost forced to use, as a result of the false outrage stemming from so called racial or discriminatory incidents.
I left out your conversation with Sid for space purposes.
1. It does matter. There is no historical context for a white person to get offended for being singled out or for having a racial label used against them. Whether or not the present issue is a misunderstanding is not what I'm talking about. Demba Ba and the coach MAY have been mistaken. But at least there is a reason WHY they could have misunderstood and been offended. There would be none for a white person.
2. Again, it may be an overcorrection. Still better than the alternative. Eventually we'll hopefully get to a place where it won't be a potential issue of controversy anymore.
3. There are tons of issues that don't get addressed or for which hypocrisy exists. We haven't had, to my knowledge, any active players come out as gay in top-level soccer. The first ones who do will most probably be subject to a lot of abuse. None of that means that the movement within football to stamp out racist abuse is wrong. Society and institutions never deal with every issue across the board. Its always piecemeal as things evolve.
4. Sorry, but I do not see society's move to be more inclusive, whether its race, belief, gender, sexual orientation as down to false outrage. Real people suffer from casual racism or sexism or homophobia every day of the week. "Snowperson" is a silly, cost-free price to pay. A generation or two from now no one will bat an eyelid at a term like that. And that's a good thing.
1. No it doesn't matter and there isn't a reason why. He was labelled as a black man, he is a black man, that is not racist nor is it a racial label. If a man was labelled as a white man amongst black men it wouldn't be racist, so it shouldn't be here. The fact that it is deemed to be racist highlights the false outrage and double standards.
2. We're now at a stage where saying Usain Bolt has plenty of pace is deemed offensive. ;D There is nothing wrong with calling Usain Bolt fast, nor is anything wrong with saying it was the black man in a group of white men. It's only a topic of controversy brought about by snowflakes, and this is now where we're at.
3. They never deal with every issue across the board because it's selective as I've already said. You call a black man a black man and the woke fake-hysteria busybodies have their pitchforks out screaming racism wanting to be seen to be progressive against racism and discrimination but not a peep when there's an issue against a white person, like McClean for example. As a result, they are doing more harm than good for the cause, and a culture of double standards and snowflakism is becoming the norm.
4. The very fact you advocate the term of "snowperson" as well as changing our whole vocabulary to appease the snowflake generation (which you're clearly part of) proves my point. I bet you also get the pitchforks out when a word like this is said, in a bid to be "progressive" leading to victimisation and more harm being done than good.
So we're going to get personal here, are we?
1. You can ignore the real world issue of racism against black people and the effect it could have on their perception all you want. It doesn't make it go away.
2. Now you're getting hysterical.
3. McClean is not abused because he is a white person. His race, or anyone else's, has nothing to do with the issue he is making a stand on. The fact that supposedly "there is not a peep" has nothing to do with him being a white person.
4. I never even heard of the term "snowperson" before you raised it this morning. But I might start using it seeing how such a silly, harmless label upsets people like yourself. Victimization indeed.
1. I'm not ignoring anything. You can ignore the double standards and fake outrage all you want, but it doesn't make it not true.
2. That's the stage the snowflake generation are bringing us.
3. I'm not talking about what he has made a stand on in the past. I'm highlighting the double standards between the non-issue racist incident of the other night, to the abuse he gets, and the difference in fake outrage between both cases.
4. I'm not upset about it at all. I find it hilarious that people get offended at "snowman" and try to re-write our whole vocabulary because the snowflake generation have their pitchforks out and demand that society conforms to their new way of doing things, or else face public victimisation, which in fact un-dos what they're actually trying to do.
1. Whose fake outrage? Most responses I've seen are very measured, trying, pending any investigation, to give the benefit of the doubt to the match official while at the same time understanding why Ba and the coach could have reacted the way they did. Given that there is no grounds for a white person to even get offended for being singled out so, there is no double standard.
2. The snowflake generation are making you got to preposterous lengths to try to make a point? Seriously, exactly what effect does it have on you if the BBC are a bit oversensitive to black players having been assigned only athletic prowess in the past? Are you getting abuse down the pub for singing the praises of Adama Traore's physique or Raheem Sterling's speed?
3. The two teams, one of which is among the biggest sporting clubs in the world, walked off the pitch in a Champions League match FFS. How would it NOT get huge exposure? McClean is a lone protester, playing for relatively minor clubs, protesting what is an uncontroversial issue, the poppy, for most British people. Maybe your ire should be aimed at his fellow Irish players who don't join him or all us Irish people who continue to support English teams, even when those players wear the poppy.
4. I've literally NEVER heard anyone get upset about the term "snowman". Maybe you could point to some examples of this menace to decent society?
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 04:20:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 04:11:05 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 03:58:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 03:08:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 02:55:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
It is absolutely false outrage, because if the roles were reversed, not an eyelid would be bat. It's similar to when James McClean gets his yearly dose, nothing is ever done about it, but when there is a black person involved people are out with their pitchforks to be seen to be being progressive and acting against discrimination when it is anything but. It's selective, and that in itself in detrimental to the whole issue surrounding stamping out racism etc.
You mentioned a formalised language regarding identification needing to be brought in, yet this is what the snowflake generation are already doing. "It's not a snowman it's a snowperson" and the BBC now not allowed to say that a black player has plenty of pace, this type of thing. That is when you know things are turning into a shitshow.
This has lead us to the point now where calling this coach a black man, even though he is a black man, is now "racist" and the linesman faces a 10 game ban, but fans being caught calling the likes of McClean all the Irish fenian c***ts of the day is par for the course.
1. No one would bat an eyelid if the roles were reversed because there is no lengthy history of discrimination against white people based on their race.
2. Black athletes were for years stereotyped as muscular, quick and unintelligent. Maybe, for the sake of argument, the reaction has gone too far in the other direction, but that's still better than the alternative.
3. What does fans abusing McClean have to do with the controversy over this game official? Racism is a worldwide problem. The abuse McClean gets, while terrible and something that should be dealt with, is one player making a political stand and the game struggling about what to do with it. I'd say McClean would be embarrassed to have his stance compared to what black people have and have had to deal with.
4. Snowperson... really, this type of silliness is what exercises you?
1. Doesn't matter. You can't pick and choose. It's either racist or it isn't. In this case it wasn't.
2.Banning saying a black player has pace is the result of the snowflake generation. It's not racist if it's true. This is what we're now having to deal with.
3. I'm highlighting the double standards between both incidents, obviously.
4. That is the type of language we are now being almost forced to use, as a result of the false outrage stemming from so called racial or discriminatory incidents.
I left out your conversation with Sid for space purposes.
1. It does matter. There is no historical context for a white person to get offended for being singled out or for having a racial label used against them. Whether or not the present issue is a misunderstanding is not what I'm talking about. Demba Ba and the coach MAY have been mistaken. But at least there is a reason WHY they could have misunderstood and been offended. There would be none for a white person.
2. Again, it may be an overcorrection. Still better than the alternative. Eventually we'll hopefully get to a place where it won't be a potential issue of controversy anymore.
3. There are tons of issues that don't get addressed or for which hypocrisy exists. We haven't had, to my knowledge, any active players come out as gay in top-level soccer. The first ones who do will most probably be subject to a lot of abuse. None of that means that the movement within football to stamp out racist abuse is wrong. Society and institutions never deal with every issue across the board. Its always piecemeal as things evolve.
4. Sorry, but I do not see society's move to be more inclusive, whether its race, belief, gender, sexual orientation as down to false outrage. Real people suffer from casual racism or sexism or homophobia every day of the week. "Snowperson" is a silly, cost-free price to pay. A generation or two from now no one will bat an eyelid at a term like that. And that's a good thing.
1. No it doesn't matter and there isn't a reason why. He was labelled as a black man, he is a black man, that is not racist nor is it a racial label. If a man was labelled as a white man amongst black men it wouldn't be racist, so it shouldn't be here. The fact that it is deemed to be racist highlights the false outrage and double standards.
2. We're now at a stage where saying Usain Bolt has plenty of pace is deemed offensive. ;D There is nothing wrong with calling Usain Bolt fast, nor is anything wrong with saying it was the black man in a group of white men. It's only a topic of controversy brought about by snowflakes, and this is now where we're at.
3. They never deal with every issue across the board because it's selective as I've already said. You call a black man a black man and the woke fake-hysteria busybodies have their pitchforks out screaming racism wanting to be seen to be progressive against racism and discrimination but not a peep when there's an issue against a white person, like McClean for example. As a result, they are doing more harm than good for the cause, and a culture of double standards and snowflakism is becoming the norm.
4. The very fact you advocate the term of "snowperson" as well as changing our whole vocabulary to appease the snowflake generation (which you're clearly part of) proves my point. I bet you also get the pitchforks out when a word like this is said, in a bid to be "progressive" leading to victimisation and more harm being done than good.
Look at the language you're using
"Snowflake" x 3
"woke fake-hysteria busybodies"
"pitchforks"
"appease"
"victimisation" (which is not used not reference to those who are the victims of racism)
The real problem for you is against a white person (does that person suffer abuse because they are white? Did you answer that?)
You can't use language like this and expect people to treat your contributions as being made in good faith or with any sort of an open mind
You seem to think that you and white people are the real victims
To say that totally misses the point would be an understatement, it's just flat out wrong
Nothing wrong with the language. You're part of this snowflake and double standards generation that society is now at the behest of, it would seem.
You can't be selective.
Here's the problem with the language
People who are on the wrong end of racism are telling you (ie. white people) there's a problem
Then, in response, you use deliberately inflammatory language which dismisses racism as a problem and dismisses those who realise racism is a problem as "snowflakes"
You use language that paints white people, rather people of colour, as the real victims
That's not a good faith engagement - it's you, who does not have lived experience of this problem, telling people who actually
have lived experience that they do not know what they are talking about
This sort of sums up the problem in a nutshell
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 04:23:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 10, 2020, 04:16:57 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 02:07:58 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 01:40:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 12:53:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 09, 2020, 02:31:55 PM
Quote from: Boycey on December 09, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Not sure where to post but here will do.
The incident in last night's PSG game, racist or non racist? I'm going for non racist, a mis-interpretation... But I look forward to possibly being told I am a dinosaur...
I agree with you. It was a descriptive term to locate which player needed to be booked, amongst presumably a group of white players. Obviously the linesman shouldve used his name or number instead, but its not racism.
And, if the roles were reversed and it was "the white guy" in a group of black players. It wouldnt be deemed to be racist. The double standards are shocking as well.
I think it was almost certainly a misunderstanding involving clumsy and poorly chosen language exacerbated by a language barrier but at the same time I would not blame Demba Ba and assistant Pierre Webo for reacting the way they did, given that they both almost certainly have extensive lived experience of racism
I think it probably highlights that it would be better if they were some sort of formalised language around player identification
That's not the lineman's fault though.
I don't think there is any need for that. As I said, the person should've been identified by his name, but if his name wasn't known, saying the black guy in a group of white people is not racism.
A manager came out in the wake of this incident and said he was referred to as the white guy when working in Africa. That wasn't (and isn't) deemed to be racist. It's all false outrage and double standards though when there is a black person involved.
Rather than dismissing it all as "false outrage" I think you'd be better placed to look at why black players are generally so on guard about potential racist incidents - it's because football has produced a litany of them and because the black players or staff themselves almost certainly have long experience of suffering from racial prejudice
I think it's quite understandable they reacted that way when they believed that a racist slur had been made
But I think the actual incident the other night was largely a misunderstanding
There is a problem with people on the internet jumping to conclusions and sticking to them at all costs which generally makes any sort of discussion around such incidents turn into a shitshow
It is absolutely false outrage, because if the roles were reversed, not an eyelid would be bat. It's similar to when James McClean gets his yearly dose, nothing is ever done about it, but when there is a black person involved people are out with their pitchforks to be seen to be being progressive and acting against discrimination when it is anything but. It's selective, and that in itself in detrimental to the whole issue surrounding stamping out racism etc.
You mentioned a formalised language regarding identification needing to be brought in, yet this is what the snowflake generation are already doing. "It's not a snowman it's a snowperson" and the BBC now not allowed to say that a black player has plenty of pace, this type of thing. That is when you know things are turning into a shitshow.
This has lead us to the point now where calling this coach a black man, even though he is a black man, is now "racist" and the linesman faces a 10 game ban, but fans being caught calling the likes of McClean all the Irish fenian c***ts of the day is par for the course.
You're right on the McClean thing. Nine years now, and nothing has ever been done about the abuse that he gets. The FA's silence has been deafening for 9 years. F**kin' disgusting.
Its why I have no time for this taking the knee bullshit in football. You can't call a black man a 'black man' but McClean is anything you want to call him. You can f**k right off.
Exactly my point. Selective double standards that is doing more harm than good.
Agree on taking the knee as well, it's an empty gesture at this stage and is being forced on teams now, like their poppies every year too. Both of which shouldn't be in or be part of football.
If it was an empty gesture, there wouldn't be such opposition to it from racists, like at Millwall last weekend
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 04:46:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 04:29:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 04:23:17 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 03:58:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 03:08:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 02:55:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
It is absolutely false outrage, because if the roles were reversed, not an eyelid would be bat. It's similar to when James McClean gets his yearly dose, nothing is ever done about it, but when there is a black person involved people are out with their pitchforks to be seen to be being progressive and acting against discrimination when it is anything but. It's selective, and that in itself in detrimental to the whole issue surrounding stamping out racism etc.
You mentioned a formalised language regarding identification needing to be brought in, yet this is what the snowflake generation are already doing. "It's not a snowman it's a snowperson" and the BBC now not allowed to say that a black player has plenty of pace, this type of thing. That is when you know things are turning into a shitshow.
This has lead us to the point now where calling this coach a black man, even though he is a black man, is now "racist" and the linesman faces a 10 game ban, but fans being caught calling the likes of McClean all the Irish fenian c***ts of the day is par for the course.
1. No one would bat an eyelid if the roles were reversed because there is no lengthy history of discrimination against white people based on their race.
2. Black athletes were for years stereotyped as muscular, quick and unintelligent. Maybe, for the sake of argument, the reaction has gone too far in the other direction, but that's still better than the alternative.
3. What does fans abusing McClean have to do with the controversy over this game official? Racism is a worldwide problem. The abuse McClean gets, while terrible and something that should be dealt with, is one player making a political stand and the game struggling about what to do with it. I'd say McClean would be embarrassed to have his stance compared to what black people have and have had to deal with.
4. Snowperson... really, this type of silliness is what exercises you?
1. Doesn't matter. You can't pick and choose. It's either racist or it isn't. In this case it wasn't.
2.Banning saying a black player has pace is the result of the snowflake generation. It's not racist if it's true. This is what we're now having to deal with.
3. I'm highlighting the double standards between both incidents, obviously.
4. That is the type of language we are now being almost forced to use, as a result of the false outrage stemming from so called racial or discriminatory incidents.
I left out your conversation with Sid for space purposes.
1. It does matter. There is no historical context for a white person to get offended for being singled out or for having a racial label used against them. Whether or not the present issue is a misunderstanding is not what I'm talking about. Demba Ba and the coach MAY have been mistaken. But at least there is a reason WHY they could have misunderstood and been offended. There would be none for a white person.
2. Again, it may be an overcorrection. Still better than the alternative. Eventually we'll hopefully get to a place where it won't be a potential issue of controversy anymore.
3. There are tons of issues that don't get addressed or for which hypocrisy exists. We haven't had, to my knowledge, any active players come out as gay in top-level soccer. The first ones who do will most probably be subject to a lot of abuse. None of that means that the movement within football to stamp out racist abuse is wrong. Society and institutions never deal with every issue across the board. Its always piecemeal as things evolve.
4. Sorry, but I do not see society's move to be more inclusive, whether its race, belief, gender, sexual orientation as down to false outrage. Real people suffer from casual racism or sexism or homophobia every day of the week. "Snowperson" is a silly, cost-free price to pay. A generation or two from now no one will bat an eyelid at a term like that. And that's a good thing.
1. No it doesn't matter and there isn't a reason why. He was labelled as a black man, he is a black man, that is not racist nor is it a racial label. If a man was labelled as a white man amongst black men it wouldn't be racist, so it shouldn't be here. The fact that it is deemed to be racist highlights the false outrage and double standards.
2. We're now at a stage where saying Usain Bolt has plenty of pace is deemed offensive. ;D There is nothing wrong with calling Usain Bolt fast, nor is anything wrong with saying it was the black man in a group of white men. It's only a topic of controversy brought about by snowflakes, and this is now where we're at.
3. They never deal with every issue across the board because it's selective as I've already said. You call a black man a black man and the woke fake-hysteria busybodies have their pitchforks out screaming racism wanting to be seen to be progressive against racism and discrimination but not a peep when there's an issue against a white person, like McClean for example. As a result, they are doing more harm than good for the cause, and a culture of double standards and snowflakism is becoming the norm.
4. The very fact you advocate the term of "snowperson" as well as changing our whole vocabulary to appease the snowflake generation (which you're clearly part of) proves my point. I bet you also get the pitchforks out when a word like this is said, in a bid to be "progressive" leading to victimisation and more harm being done than good.
So we're going to get personal here, are we?
1. You can ignore the real world issue of racism against black people and the effect it could have on their perception all you want. It doesn't make it go away.
2. Now you're getting hysterical.
3. McClean is not abused because he is a white person. His race, or anyone else's, has nothing to do with the issue he is making a stand on. The fact that supposedly "there is not a peep" has nothing to do with him being a white person.
4. I never even heard of the term "snowperson" before you raised it this morning. But I might start using it seeing how such a silly, harmless label upsets people like yourself. Victimization indeed.
1. I'm not ignoring anything. You can ignore the double standards and fake outrage all you want, but it doesn't make it not true.
2. That's the stage the snowflake generation are bringing us.
3. I'm not talking about what he has made a stand on in the past. I'm highlighting the double standards between the non-issue racist incident of the other night, to the abuse he gets, and the difference in fake outrage between both cases.
4. I'm not upset about it at all. I find it hilarious that people get offended at "snowman" and try to re-write our whole vocabulary because the snowflake generation have their pitchforks out and demand that society conforms to their new way of doing things, or else face public victimisation, which in fact un-dos what they're actually trying to do.
1. Whose fake outrage? Most responses I've seen are very measured, trying, pending any investigation, to give the benefit of the doubt to the match official while at the same time understanding why Ba and the coach could have reacted the way they did. Given that there is no grounds for a white person to even get offended for being singled out so, there is no double standard.
2. The snowflake generation are making you got to preposterous lengths to try to make a point? Seriously, exactly what effect does it have on you if the BBC are a bit oversensitive to black players having been assigned only athletic prowess in the past? Are you getting abuse down the pub for singing the praises of Adama Traore's physique or Raheem Sterling's speed?
3. The two teams, one of which is among the biggest sporting clubs in the world, walked off the pitch in a Champions League match FFS. How would it NOT get huge exposure? McClean is a lone protester, playing for relatively minor clubs, protesting what is an uncontroversial issue, the poppy, for most British people. Maybe your ire should be aimed at his fellow Irish players who don't join him or all us Irish people who continue to support English teams, even when those players wear the poppy.
4. I've literally NEVER heard anyone get upset about the term "snowman". Maybe you could point to some examples of this menace to decent society?
1. The fake outrage of the whole population, and how they're commenting on the matter, with their pitchforks out for the 4th official. You contradict yourself there also, for some reason you seem to think white people can't be offended for being called white, but black people can be offended for being called black. That is the double standard, and people like you play a part in this double standard snowflake culture because people like you think they can tell people what they can and cannot be offended by, but you don't have that right. It's either racist, or it isn't.
2. I haven't a clue what you're on about here. I'm saying the snowflake generation are trying to turn non racist things out to be racist, and this is now the culture that they are forcing upon us. A commentator cannot now praise Sterling or Traore's speed after good play without the fear of the woke fake hysteria crowd getting their pitchforks out.
3. You're mistaken here. PSG walking off the pitch isn't the issue. It's the fake hysteria surrounding a nothing issue, a black man being called a black man. Again, I'm not talking about McClean and poppies, i'm talking about the abuse he gets for being Irish etc and the difference in the fake outrage of a black man being called a black man and McClean's racial abuse. But because he's not black and he's irish no one has the pitchforks out for those who abuse him. Double standards and fake outrage in a nutshell. It's only an issue when it suits them, and this does more harm than good.
4. I'll use another example then.
"Chairman/woman" – Chair, chairperson, convenor, head. "Manpower" – Human resources, labour force, staff, personnel, workers, workforce. "Sportsmanship" – Fairness, good humour, sense of fair play.
These are some of the words the snowflake generation are trying to cancel, or else you face public victimisation if you use them. This is the culture that is creeping in, and as outlined in point 2, stems from fake outrage and double standards.
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 04:53:19 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 04:20:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 04:11:05 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 03:58:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 03:08:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 02:55:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
It is absolutely false outrage, because if the roles were reversed, not an eyelid would be bat. It's similar to when James McClean gets his yearly dose, nothing is ever done about it, but when there is a black person involved people are out with their pitchforks to be seen to be being progressive and acting against discrimination when it is anything but. It's selective, and that in itself in detrimental to the whole issue surrounding stamping out racism etc.
You mentioned a formalised language regarding identification needing to be brought in, yet this is what the snowflake generation are already doing. "It's not a snowman it's a snowperson" and the BBC now not allowed to say that a black player has plenty of pace, this type of thing. That is when you know things are turning into a shitshow.
This has lead us to the point now where calling this coach a black man, even though he is a black man, is now "racist" and the linesman faces a 10 game ban, but fans being caught calling the likes of McClean all the Irish fenian c***ts of the day is par for the course.
1. No one would bat an eyelid if the roles were reversed because there is no lengthy history of discrimination against white people based on their race.
2. Black athletes were for years stereotyped as muscular, quick and unintelligent. Maybe, for the sake of argument, the reaction has gone too far in the other direction, but that's still better than the alternative.
3. What does fans abusing McClean have to do with the controversy over this game official? Racism is a worldwide problem. The abuse McClean gets, while terrible and something that should be dealt with, is one player making a political stand and the game struggling about what to do with it. I'd say McClean would be embarrassed to have his stance compared to what black people have and have had to deal with.
4. Snowperson... really, this type of silliness is what exercises you?
1. Doesn't matter. You can't pick and choose. It's either racist or it isn't. In this case it wasn't.
2.Banning saying a black player has pace is the result of the snowflake generation. It's not racist if it's true. This is what we're now having to deal with.
3. I'm highlighting the double standards between both incidents, obviously.
4. That is the type of language we are now being almost forced to use, as a result of the false outrage stemming from so called racial or discriminatory incidents.
I left out your conversation with Sid for space purposes.
1. It does matter. There is no historical context for a white person to get offended for being singled out or for having a racial label used against them. Whether or not the present issue is a misunderstanding is not what I'm talking about. Demba Ba and the coach MAY have been mistaken. But at least there is a reason WHY they could have misunderstood and been offended. There would be none for a white person.
2. Again, it may be an overcorrection. Still better than the alternative. Eventually we'll hopefully get to a place where it won't be a potential issue of controversy anymore.
3. There are tons of issues that don't get addressed or for which hypocrisy exists. We haven't had, to my knowledge, any active players come out as gay in top-level soccer. The first ones who do will most probably be subject to a lot of abuse. None of that means that the movement within football to stamp out racist abuse is wrong. Society and institutions never deal with every issue across the board. Its always piecemeal as things evolve.
4. Sorry, but I do not see society's move to be more inclusive, whether its race, belief, gender, sexual orientation as down to false outrage. Real people suffer from casual racism or sexism or homophobia every day of the week. "Snowperson" is a silly, cost-free price to pay. A generation or two from now no one will bat an eyelid at a term like that. And that's a good thing.
1. No it doesn't matter and there isn't a reason why. He was labelled as a black man, he is a black man, that is not racist nor is it a racial label. If a man was labelled as a white man amongst black men it wouldn't be racist, so it shouldn't be here. The fact that it is deemed to be racist highlights the false outrage and double standards.
2. We're now at a stage where saying Usain Bolt has plenty of pace is deemed offensive. ;D There is nothing wrong with calling Usain Bolt fast, nor is anything wrong with saying it was the black man in a group of white men. It's only a topic of controversy brought about by snowflakes, and this is now where we're at.
3. They never deal with every issue across the board because it's selective as I've already said. You call a black man a black man and the woke fake-hysteria busybodies have their pitchforks out screaming racism wanting to be seen to be progressive against racism and discrimination but not a peep when there's an issue against a white person, like McClean for example. As a result, they are doing more harm than good for the cause, and a culture of double standards and snowflakism is becoming the norm.
4. The very fact you advocate the term of "snowperson" as well as changing our whole vocabulary to appease the snowflake generation (which you're clearly part of) proves my point. I bet you also get the pitchforks out when a word like this is said, in a bid to be "progressive" leading to victimisation and more harm being done than good.
Look at the language you're using
"Snowflake" x 3
"woke fake-hysteria busybodies"
"pitchforks"
"appease"
"victimisation" (which is not used not reference to those who are the victims of racism)
The real problem for you is against a white person (does that person suffer abuse because they are white? Did you answer that?)
You can't use language like this and expect people to treat your contributions as being made in good faith or with any sort of an open mind
You seem to think that you and white people are the real victims
To say that totally misses the point would be an understatement, it's just flat out wrong
Nothing wrong with the language. You're part of this snowflake and double standards generation that society is now at the behest of, it would seem.
You can't be selective.
Here's the problem with the language
People who are on the wrong end of racism are telling you (ie. white people) there's a problem
Then, in response, you use deliberately inflammatory language which dismisses racism as a problem and dismisses those who realise racism is a problem as "snowflakes"
You use language that paints white people, rather people of colour, as the real victims
That's not a good faith engagement - it's you, who does not have lived experience of this problem, telling people who actually have lived experience that they do not know what they are talking about
This sort of sums up the problem in a nutshell
You used the term "people of colour". That is now deemed to be racist. They're black. Just like the Istanbul coach. Maybe you should check your own language, and ask your fellow members of the snowflake generation what are the correct terms to use before you start preaching to others.
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 04:55:08 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 04:23:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 10, 2020, 04:16:57 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 02:07:58 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 01:40:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 12:53:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 09, 2020, 02:31:55 PM
Quote from: Boycey on December 09, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Not sure where to post but here will do.
The incident in last night's PSG game, racist or non racist? I'm going for non racist, a mis-interpretation... But I look forward to possibly being told I am a dinosaur...
I agree with you. It was a descriptive term to locate which player needed to be booked, amongst presumably a group of white players. Obviously the linesman shouldve used his name or number instead, but its not racism.
And, if the roles were reversed and it was "the white guy" in a group of black players. It wouldnt be deemed to be racist. The double standards are shocking as well.
I think it was almost certainly a misunderstanding involving clumsy and poorly chosen language exacerbated by a language barrier but at the same time I would not blame Demba Ba and assistant Pierre Webo for reacting the way they did, given that they both almost certainly have extensive lived experience of racism
I think it probably highlights that it would be better if they were some sort of formalised language around player identification
That's not the lineman's fault though.
I don't think there is any need for that. As I said, the person should've been identified by his name, but if his name wasn't known, saying the black guy in a group of white people is not racism.
A manager came out in the wake of this incident and said he was referred to as the white guy when working in Africa. That wasn't (and isn't) deemed to be racist. It's all false outrage and double standards though when there is a black person involved.
Rather than dismissing it all as "false outrage" I think you'd be better placed to look at why black players are generally so on guard about potential racist incidents - it's because football has produced a litany of them and because the black players or staff themselves almost certainly have long experience of suffering from racial prejudice
I think it's quite understandable they reacted that way when they believed that a racist slur had been made
But I think the actual incident the other night was largely a misunderstanding
There is a problem with people on the internet jumping to conclusions and sticking to them at all costs which generally makes any sort of discussion around such incidents turn into a shitshow
It is absolutely false outrage, because if the roles were reversed, not an eyelid would be bat. It's similar to when James McClean gets his yearly dose, nothing is ever done about it, but when there is a black person involved people are out with their pitchforks to be seen to be being progressive and acting against discrimination when it is anything but. It's selective, and that in itself in detrimental to the whole issue surrounding stamping out racism etc.
You mentioned a formalised language regarding identification needing to be brought in, yet this is what the snowflake generation are already doing. "It's not a snowman it's a snowperson" and the BBC now not allowed to say that a black player has plenty of pace, this type of thing. That is when you know things are turning into a shitshow.
This has lead us to the point now where calling this coach a black man, even though he is a black man, is now "racist" and the linesman faces a 10 game ban, but fans being caught calling the likes of McClean all the Irish fenian c***ts of the day is par for the course.
You're right on the McClean thing. Nine years now, and nothing has ever been done about the abuse that he gets. The FA's silence has been deafening for 9 years. F**kin' disgusting.
Its why I have no time for this taking the knee bullshit in football. You can't call a black man a 'black man' but McClean is anything you want to call him. You can f**k right off.
Exactly my point. Selective double standards that is doing more harm than good.
Agree on taking the knee as well, it's an empty gesture at this stage and is being forced on teams now, like their poppies every year too. Both of which shouldn't be in or be part of football.
If it was an empty gesture, there wouldn't be such opposition to it from racists, like at Millwall last weekend
There you go. You label those who don't wish to conform to the way the fake hysteria busybodies do things, like the Millwall fans. Are we now going to do a kneel before every sporting event for the rest of time? Why aren't we kneeling in solidarity for the racial abuse McClean suffers. Like the poppies, this gesture is now being forced upon football before any game. It has lost its credibility.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:16:36 PM
You used the term "people of colour". That is now deemed to be racist. They're black. Just like the Istanbul coach. Maybe you should check your own language, and ask your fellow members of the snowflake generation what are the correct terms to use before you start preaching to others.
The term "people of colour" is not deemed to be racist
I have no idea why you claim it is when presumably you know full well that it isn't
Again, "snowflake", "preaching", these are not good faith engagements, they are the calling cards of somebody with a wilfully closed mind who gets defensive when they can't defend their arguments
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:20:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 04:55:08 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 04:23:32 PM
Exactly my point. Selective double standards that is doing more harm than good.
Agree on taking the knee as well, it's an empty gesture at this stage and is being forced on teams now, like their poppies every year too. Both of which shouldn't be in or be part of football.
If it was an empty gesture, there wouldn't be such opposition to it from racists, like at Millwall last weekend
There you go. You label those who don't wish to conform to the way the fake hysteria busybodies do things, like the Millwall fans. Are we now going to do a kneel before every sporting event for the rest of time? Why aren't we kneeling in solidarity for the racial abuse McClean suffers. Like the poppies, this gesture is now being forced upon football before any game. It has lost its credibility.
So why did Millwall supporters boo the taking of the knee?
And why did the Millwall team then not take the knee for their next match?
You're now portraying
Millwall supporters as victims in this
How are they victims?
Again, deliberately inflammatory language and whataboutery permeates your post - that is not good faith engagement
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 05:23:04 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:16:36 PM
You used the term "people of colour". That is now deemed to be racist. They're black. Just like the Istanbul coach. Maybe you should check your own language, and ask your fellow members of the snowflake generation what are the correct terms to use before you start preaching to others.
The term "people of colour" is not deemed to be racist
I have no idea why you claim it is when presumably you know full well that it isn't
Again, "snowflake", "preaching", these are not good faith engagements, they are the calling cards of somebody with a wilfully closed mind who gets defensive when they can't defend their arguments
Yes it is. It is offensive to black people, that's widely known.
I'm defending my arguments, but i don't get my knickers in a twist over the words you use do I? Address the point i'm making or log off, you don't get to decide what words are "good faith engagements", and get off your high horse when you're at it.
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 05:27:06 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:20:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 04:55:08 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 04:23:32 PM
Exactly my point. Selective double standards that is doing more harm than good.
Agree on taking the knee as well, it's an empty gesture at this stage and is being forced on teams now, like their poppies every year too. Both of which shouldn't be in or be part of football.
If it was an empty gesture, there wouldn't be such opposition to it from racists, like at Millwall last weekend
There you go. You label those who don't wish to conform to the way the fake hysteria busybodies do things, like the Millwall fans. Are we now going to do a kneel before every sporting event for the rest of time? Why aren't we kneeling in solidarity for the racial abuse McClean suffers. Like the poppies, this gesture is now being forced upon football before any game. It has lost its credibility.
So why did Millwall supporters boo the taking of the knee?
And why did the Millwall team then not take the knee for their next match?
You're now portraying Millwall supporters as victims in this
How are they victims?
Again, deliberately inflammatory language and whataboutery permeates your post - that is not good faith engagement
The millwall team didn't do it in their next match because the manager said they wanted to make a stand in their own way.
Many people have an issue with the BLM movement, that it actually creates division instead of promoting unity. Im no millwall supprter but they obviously felt the same way, or dont like having an empty gesture forced upon the sport without any real action being done.
But god help anyone who refuses to be forced to take the knee or the double standard pitchfork wielding busybodies will be onto them.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 05:23:04 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:16:36 PM
You used the term "people of colour". That is now deemed to be racist. They're black. Just like the Istanbul coach. Maybe you should check your own language, and ask your fellow members of the snowflake generation what are the correct terms to use before you start preaching to others.
The term "people of colour" is not deemed to be racist
I have no idea why you claim it is when presumably you know full well that it isn't
Again, "snowflake", "preaching", these are not good faith engagements, they are the calling cards of somebody with a wilfully closed mind who gets defensive when they can't defend their arguments
Yes it is. It is offensive to black people, that's widely known.
I'm defending my arguments, but i don't get my knickers in a twist over the words you use do I? Address the point i'm making or log off, you don't get to decide what words are "good faith engagements", and get off your high horse when you're at it.
Read your post back
In the same you post in which you claim you're not getting your knickers in a twist over words I use, you then do exactly that
"That's widely known", lolz
The term people of colour is a widely used and accepted term - and it does not preclude the use of the term "black people"
In a thread where you have consistently used the word "snowflake", you are now objecting to the use of a widely used and accepted term because you have run out of any other ideas - the irony is spectacular
James McClean doesn't suffer racial abuse
Do you not see the irony in what you are saying - you are claiming that McClean suffers racial abuse - he doesn't - the abuse he takes is not for the colour of his skin or even because he is Irish (and I'm certainly not defending the abuse he takes, it's horrible) - but when Millwall fans boo the taking of the knee and I call it racist - because it is - there's literally no other way to interpret it - you then claim Millwall fans are victims
These Millwall fans who booed the taking of the knee are the same people who boo McClean for not wearing a poppy by the way
How can they be racists when they boo McClean, yet fearless warriors for free speech when they boo the taking of the knee?
You don't get to decide whether I'm logged on or logged off just because you can't deal with my points
I think any reasonable person can see that your engagements are not in good faith - and the angry tone of your posts is a giveaway that you yourself realise this on some level
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 05:41:33 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 05:23:04 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:16:36 PM
You used the term "people of colour". That is now deemed to be racist. They're black. Just like the Istanbul coach. Maybe you should check your own language, and ask your fellow members of the snowflake generation what are the correct terms to use before you start preaching to others.
The term "people of colour" is not deemed to be racist
I have no idea why you claim it is when presumably you know full well that it isn't
Again, "snowflake", "preaching", these are not good faith engagements, they are the calling cards of somebody with a wilfully closed mind who gets defensive when they can't defend their arguments
Yes it is. It is offensive to black people, that's widely known.
I'm defending my arguments, but i don't get my knickers in a twist over the words you use do I? Address the point i'm making or log off, you don't get to decide what words are "good faith engagements", and get off your high horse when you're at it.
Read your post back
In the same you post in which you claim you're not getting your knickers in a twist over words I use, you then do exactly that
"That's widely known", lolz
The term people of colour is a widely used and accepted term - and it does not preclude the use of the term "black people"
In a thread where you have consistently used the word "snowflake", you are now objecting to the use of a widely used and accepted term because you have run out of any other ideas - the irony is spectacular
James McClean doesn't suffer racial abuse
Do you not see the irony in what you are saying - you are claiming that McClean suffers racial abuse - he doesn't - the abuse he takes is not for the colour of his skin or even because he is Irish (and I'm certainly not defending the abuse he takes, it's horrible) - but when Millwall fans boo the taking of the knee and I call it racist - because it is - there's literally no other way to interpret it - you then claim Millwall fans are victims
These Millwall fans who booed the taking of the knee are the same people who boo McClean for not wearing a poppy by the way
How can they be racists when they boo McClean, yet fearless warriors for free speech when they boo the taking of the knee?
You don't get to decide whether I'm logged on or logged off just because you can't deal with my points
I think any reasonable person can see that your engagements are not in good faith - and the angry tone of your posts is a giveaway that you yourself realise this on some level
Not quite Sid.
"People of colour" is an offensive term to black people. They're not "coloured", they're black. The fact you act like a know-it-all but don't know something so basic as this is hilarious.
You can't engage or offer a credible debate so you resort to getting offended at the words I use, make your mind up.
As you have done before on this board, you seem to pick out the word snowflake quite a lot when people break down your argument, and target that word instead of the point they make. That is snowflake behaviour.
McClean does suffer racial abuse, but because he's not black then people like you get all fake outraged.
Booing the take of the knee is not in itself racist either.
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 04:46:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 04:29:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 04:23:17 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 03:58:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 03:08:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 02:55:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
It is absolutely false outrage, because if the roles were reversed, not an eyelid would be bat. It's similar to when James McClean gets his yearly dose, nothing is ever done about it, but when there is a black person involved people are out with their pitchforks to be seen to be being progressive and acting against discrimination when it is anything but. It's selective, and that in itself in detrimental to the whole issue surrounding stamping out racism etc.
You mentioned a formalised language regarding identification needing to be brought in, yet this is what the snowflake generation are already doing. "It's not a snowman it's a snowperson" and the BBC now not allowed to say that a black player has plenty of pace, this type of thing. That is when you know things are turning into a shitshow.
This has lead us to the point now where calling this coach a black man, even though he is a black man, is now "racist" and the linesman faces a 10 game ban, but fans being caught calling the likes of McClean all the Irish fenian c***ts of the day is par for the course.
1. No one would bat an eyelid if the roles were reversed because there is no lengthy history of discrimination against white people based on their race.
2. Black athletes were for years stereotyped as muscular, quick and unintelligent. Maybe, for the sake of argument, the reaction has gone too far in the other direction, but that's still better than the alternative.
3. What does fans abusing McClean have to do with the controversy over this game official? Racism is a worldwide problem. The abuse McClean gets, while terrible and something that should be dealt with, is one player making a political stand and the game struggling about what to do with it. I'd say McClean would be embarrassed to have his stance compared to what black people have and have had to deal with.
4. Snowperson... really, this type of silliness is what exercises you?
1. Doesn't matter. You can't pick and choose. It's either racist or it isn't. In this case it wasn't.
2.Banning saying a black player has pace is the result of the snowflake generation. It's not racist if it's true. This is what we're now having to deal with.
3. I'm highlighting the double standards between both incidents, obviously.
4. That is the type of language we are now being almost forced to use, as a result of the false outrage stemming from so called racial or discriminatory incidents.
I left out your conversation with Sid for space purposes.
1. It does matter. There is no historical context for a white person to get offended for being singled out or for having a racial label used against them. Whether or not the present issue is a misunderstanding is not what I'm talking about. Demba Ba and the coach MAY have been mistaken. But at least there is a reason WHY they could have misunderstood and been offended. There would be none for a white person.
2. Again, it may be an overcorrection. Still better than the alternative. Eventually we'll hopefully get to a place where it won't be a potential issue of controversy anymore.
3. There are tons of issues that don't get addressed or for which hypocrisy exists. We haven't had, to my knowledge, any active players come out as gay in top-level soccer. The first ones who do will most probably be subject to a lot of abuse. None of that means that the movement within football to stamp out racist abuse is wrong. Society and institutions never deal with every issue across the board. Its always piecemeal as things evolve.
4. Sorry, but I do not see society's move to be more inclusive, whether its race, belief, gender, sexual orientation as down to false outrage. Real people suffer from casual racism or sexism or homophobia every day of the week. "Snowperson" is a silly, cost-free price to pay. A generation or two from now no one will bat an eyelid at a term like that. And that's a good thing.
1. No it doesn't matter and there isn't a reason why. He was labelled as a black man, he is a black man, that is not racist nor is it a racial label. If a man was labelled as a white man amongst black men it wouldn't be racist, so it shouldn't be here. The fact that it is deemed to be racist highlights the false outrage and double standards.
2. We're now at a stage where saying Usain Bolt has plenty of pace is deemed offensive. ;D There is nothing wrong with calling Usain Bolt fast, nor is anything wrong with saying it was the black man in a group of white men. It's only a topic of controversy brought about by snowflakes, and this is now where we're at.
3. They never deal with every issue across the board because it's selective as I've already said. You call a black man a black man and the woke fake-hysteria busybodies have their pitchforks out screaming racism wanting to be seen to be progressive against racism and discrimination but not a peep when there's an issue against a white person, like McClean for example. As a result, they are doing more harm than good for the cause, and a culture of double standards and snowflakism is becoming the norm.
4. The very fact you advocate the term of "snowperson" as well as changing our whole vocabulary to appease the snowflake generation (which you're clearly part of) proves my point. I bet you also get the pitchforks out when a word like this is said, in a bid to be "progressive" leading to victimisation and more harm being done than good.
So we're going to get personal here, are we?
1. You can ignore the real world issue of racism against black people and the effect it could have on their perception all you want. It doesn't make it go away.
2. Now you're getting hysterical.
3. McClean is not abused because he is a white person. His race, or anyone else's, has nothing to do with the issue he is making a stand on. The fact that supposedly "there is not a peep" has nothing to do with him being a white person.
4. I never even heard of the term "snowperson" before you raised it this morning. But I might start using it seeing how such a silly, harmless label upsets people like yourself. Victimization indeed.
1. I'm not ignoring anything. You can ignore the double standards and fake outrage all you want, but it doesn't make it not true.
2. That's the stage the snowflake generation are bringing us.
3. I'm not talking about what he has made a stand on in the past. I'm highlighting the double standards between the non-issue racist incident of the other night, to the abuse he gets, and the difference in fake outrage between both cases.
4. I'm not upset about it at all. I find it hilarious that people get offended at "snowman" and try to re-write our whole vocabulary because the snowflake generation have their pitchforks out and demand that society conforms to their new way of doing things, or else face public victimisation, which in fact un-dos what they're actually trying to do.
1. Whose fake outrage? Most responses I've seen are very measured, trying, pending any investigation, to give the benefit of the doubt to the match official while at the same time understanding why Ba and the coach could have reacted the way they did. Given that there is no grounds for a white person to even get offended for being singled out so, there is no double standard.
2. The snowflake generation are making you got to preposterous lengths to try to make a point? Seriously, exactly what effect does it have on you if the BBC are a bit oversensitive to black players having been assigned only athletic prowess in the past? Are you getting abuse down the pub for singing the praises of Adama Traore's physique or Raheem Sterling's speed?
3. The two teams, one of which is among the biggest sporting clubs in the world, walked off the pitch in a Champions League match FFS. How would it NOT get huge exposure? McClean is a lone protester, playing for relatively minor clubs, protesting what is an uncontroversial issue, the poppy, for most British people. Maybe your ire should be aimed at his fellow Irish players who don't join him or all us Irish people who continue to support English teams, even when those players wear the poppy.
4. I've literally NEVER heard anyone get upset about the term "snowman". Maybe you could point to some examples of this menace to decent society?
So it's ok for McClean to get constant abuse just because he doesn't play in the Premier League??
The poppy may be an uncontroversial issue for most British people, but it is an issue for some foreigners, and a lot of people on this island. He has stated his position, and his views should be respected. Instead the FA have remained silent, which more or less says that he deserves any abuse that comes his way, and that is totally unacceptable.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:41:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 05:27:06 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:20:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 04:55:08 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 04:23:32 PM
Exactly my point. Selective double standards that is doing more harm than good.
Agree on taking the knee as well, it's an empty gesture at this stage and is being forced on teams now, like their poppies every year too. Both of which shouldn't be in or be part of football.
If it was an empty gesture, there wouldn't be such opposition to it from racists, like at Millwall last weekend
There you go. You label those who don't wish to conform to the way the fake hysteria busybodies do things, like the Millwall fans. Are we now going to do a kneel before every sporting event for the rest of time? Why aren't we kneeling in solidarity for the racial abuse McClean suffers. Like the poppies, this gesture is now being forced upon football before any game. It has lost its credibility.
So why did Millwall supporters boo the taking of the knee?
And why did the Millwall team then not take the knee for their next match?
You're now portraying Millwall supporters as victims in this
How are they victims?
Again, deliberately inflammatory language and whataboutery permeates your post - that is not good faith engagement
The millwall team didn't do it in their next match because the manager said they wanted to make a stand in their own way.
Many people have an issue with the BLM movement, that it actually creates division instead of promoting unity. Im no millwall supprter but they obviously felt the same way, or dont like having an empty gesture forced upon the sport without any real action being done.
But god help anyone who refuses to be forced to take the knee or the double standard pitchfork wielding busybodies will be onto them.
The taking of the knee is not connected to the Black Lives Matter movement - it may have been at the start but it no longer is - it is a gesture by players - which was started at the behest of players, in support of racial equality
Why was that booed?
How is the taking of the knee "divisive"?
And to take up your talking point, how is the Black Lives Matter movement "divisive", or why should it deemed to be divisive?
I actually don't disagree that it is divisive - you can divide reactions to the BLM movement into those of anti-racists and those of racists
So it's quite instructive in setting out that divide
The Millwall team obviously didn't take a knee at the QPR game because the taking of the knee had been booed in a racist manner by their supporters, the club hierarchy were embarrassed, they didn't want a repeat and so caved in to the racists who booed it
It's an episode of shame for Millwall
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:20:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 04:55:08 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 04:23:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 10, 2020, 04:16:57 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 02:07:58 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 01:40:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 12:53:16 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 09, 2020, 02:31:55 PM
Quote from: Boycey on December 09, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Not sure where to post but here will do.
The incident in last night's PSG game, racist or non racist? I'm going for non racist, a mis-interpretation... But I look forward to possibly being told I am a dinosaur...
I agree with you. It was a descriptive term to locate which player needed to be booked, amongst presumably a group of white players. Obviously the linesman shouldve used his name or number instead, but its not racism.
And, if the roles were reversed and it was "the white guy" in a group of black players. It wouldnt be deemed to be racist. The double standards are shocking as well.
I think it was almost certainly a misunderstanding involving clumsy and poorly chosen language exacerbated by a language barrier but at the same time I would not blame Demba Ba and assistant Pierre Webo for reacting the way they did, given that they both almost certainly have extensive lived experience of racism
I think it probably highlights that it would be better if they were some sort of formalised language around player identification
That's not the lineman's fault though.
I don't think there is any need for that. As I said, the person should've been identified by his name, but if his name wasn't known, saying the black guy in a group of white people is not racism.
A manager came out in the wake of this incident and said he was referred to as the white guy when working in Africa. That wasn't (and isn't) deemed to be racist. It's all false outrage and double standards though when there is a black person involved.
Rather than dismissing it all as "false outrage" I think you'd be better placed to look at why black players are generally so on guard about potential racist incidents - it's because football has produced a litany of them and because the black players or staff themselves almost certainly have long experience of suffering from racial prejudice
I think it's quite understandable they reacted that way when they believed that a racist slur had been made
But I think the actual incident the other night was largely a misunderstanding
There is a problem with people on the internet jumping to conclusions and sticking to them at all costs which generally makes any sort of discussion around such incidents turn into a shitshow
It is absolutely false outrage, because if the roles were reversed, not an eyelid would be bat. It's similar to when James McClean gets his yearly dose, nothing is ever done about it, but when there is a black person involved people are out with their pitchforks to be seen to be being progressive and acting against discrimination when it is anything but. It's selective, and that in itself in detrimental to the whole issue surrounding stamping out racism etc.
You mentioned a formalised language regarding identification needing to be brought in, yet this is what the snowflake generation are already doing. "It's not a snowman it's a snowperson" and the BBC now not allowed to say that a black player has plenty of pace, this type of thing. That is when you know things are turning into a shitshow.
This has lead us to the point now where calling this coach a black man, even though he is a black man, is now "racist" and the linesman faces a 10 game ban, but fans being caught calling the likes of McClean all the Irish fenian c***ts of the day is par for the course.
You're right on the McClean thing. Nine years now, and nothing has ever been done about the abuse that he gets. The FA's silence has been deafening for 9 years. F**kin' disgusting.
Its why I have no time for this taking the knee bullshit in football. You can't call a black man a 'black man' but McClean is anything you want to call him. You can f**k right off.
Exactly my point. Selective double standards that is doing more harm than good.
Agree on taking the knee as well, it's an empty gesture at this stage and is being forced on teams now, like their poppies every year too. Both of which shouldn't be in or be part of football.
If it was an empty gesture, there wouldn't be such opposition to it from racists, like at Millwall last weekend
There you go. You label those who don't wish to conform to the way the fake hysteria busybodies do things, like the Millwall fans. Are we now going to do a kneel before every sporting event for the rest of time? Why aren't we kneeling in solidarity for the racial abuse McClean suffers. Like the poppies, this gesture is now being forced upon football before any game. It has lost its credibility.
Exactly.
Any chance of a mod deleting the last 3 pages?
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 05:56:57 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:41:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 05:27:06 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:20:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 04:55:08 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 04:23:32 PM
Exactly my point. Selective double standards that is doing more harm than good.
Agree on taking the knee as well, it's an empty gesture at this stage and is being forced on teams now, like their poppies every year too. Both of which shouldn't be in or be part of football.
If it was an empty gesture, there wouldn't be such opposition to it from racists, like at Millwall last weekend
There you go. You label those who don't wish to conform to the way the fake hysteria busybodies do things, like the Millwall fans. Are we now going to do a kneel before every sporting event for the rest of time? Why aren't we kneeling in solidarity for the racial abuse McClean suffers. Like the poppies, this gesture is now being forced upon football before any game. It has lost its credibility.
So why did Millwall supporters boo the taking of the knee?
And why did the Millwall team then not take the knee for their next match?
You're now portraying Millwall supporters as victims in this
How are they victims?
Again, deliberately inflammatory language and whataboutery permeates your post - that is not good faith engagement
The millwall team didn't do it in their next match because the manager said they wanted to make a stand in their own way.
Many people have an issue with the BLM movement, that it actually creates division instead of promoting unity. Im no millwall supprter but they obviously felt the same way, or dont like having an empty gesture forced upon the sport without any real action being done.
But god help anyone who refuses to be forced to take the knee or the double standard pitchfork wielding busybodies will be onto them.
The taking of the knee is not connected to the Black Lives Matter movement - it may have been at the start but it no longer is - it is a gesture by players - which was started at the behest of players, in support of racial equality
Why was that booed?
How is the taking of the knee "divisive"?
And to take up your talking point, how is the Black Lives Matter movement "divisive", or why should it deemed to be divisive?
I actually don't disagree that it is divisive - you can divide reactions to the BLM movement into those of anti-racists and those of racists
So it's quite instructive in setting out that divide
The Millwall team obviously didn't take a knee at the QPR game because the taking of the knee had been booed in a racist manner by their supporters, the club hierarchy were embarrassed, they didn't want a repeat and so caved in to the racists who booed it
It's an episode of shame for Millwall
Yes it is, it originates from Kaepernick and was the symbol of BLM. The taking of the knee is the players way of showing their solidarity to the BLM movement AND to racial equality.
I wasn't amongst the Millwall fans in the stadium so i don't know their reasoning behind it. I agree it doesn't look good and id be raging if my teams supporters did it, but blindly calling it racist is wrong. This is the fake hysteria and double standard im on about.
If you don't disagree that its divisive then there you go.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:53:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 05:41:33 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 05:23:04 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:16:36 PM
You used the term "people of colour". That is now deemed to be racist. They're black. Just like the Istanbul coach. Maybe you should check your own language, and ask your fellow members of the snowflake generation what are the correct terms to use before you start preaching to others.
The term "people of colour" is not deemed to be racist
I have no idea why you claim it is when presumably you know full well that it isn't
Again, "snowflake", "preaching", these are not good faith engagements, they are the calling cards of somebody with a wilfully closed mind who gets defensive when they can't defend their arguments
Yes it is. It is offensive to black people, that's widely known.
I'm defending my arguments, but i don't get my knickers in a twist over the words you use do I? Address the point i'm making or log off, you don't get to decide what words are "good faith engagements", and get off your high horse when you're at it.
Read your post back
In the same you post in which you claim you're not getting your knickers in a twist over words I use, you then do exactly that
"That's widely known", lolz
The term people of colour is a widely used and accepted term - and it does not preclude the use of the term "black people"
In a thread where you have consistently used the word "snowflake", you are now objecting to the use of a widely used and accepted term because you have run out of any other ideas - the irony is spectacular
James McClean doesn't suffer racial abuse
Do you not see the irony in what you are saying - you are claiming that McClean suffers racial abuse - he doesn't - the abuse he takes is not for the colour of his skin or even because he is Irish (and I'm certainly not defending the abuse he takes, it's horrible) - but when Millwall fans boo the taking of the knee and I call it racist - because it is - there's literally no other way to interpret it - you then claim Millwall fans are victims
These Millwall fans who booed the taking of the knee are the same people who boo McClean for not wearing a poppy by the way
How can they be racists when they boo McClean, yet fearless warriors for free speech when they boo the taking of the knee?
You don't get to decide whether I'm logged on or logged off just because you can't deal with my points
I think any reasonable person can see that your engagements are not in good faith - and the angry tone of your posts is a giveaway that you yourself realise this on some level
Not quite Sid.
"People of colour" is an offensive term to black people. They're not "coloured", they're black. The fact you act like a know-it-all but don't know something so basic as this is hilarious.
You can't engage or offer a credible debate so you resort to getting offended at the words I use, make your mind up.
As you have done before on this board, you seem to pick out the word snowflake quite a lot when people break down your argument, and target that word instead of the point they make. That is snowflake behaviour.
McClean does suffer racial abuse, but because he's not black then people like you get all fake outraged.
Booing the take of the knee is not in itself racist either.
The term "people of colour" is a widely used and accepted term - and it does not preclude the use of the term "black people"
You really need to get onto Channel 4 News, BBC, the Guardian, Amensty International etc. and indeed all the people of colour who use the term
You
do understand that the term "people of colour" and the term "coloured" are NOT the same thing? Right? I only say it because from that post it appears you don't understand that
It's actually hilarious seeing somebody whose central point is to deny or downplay racism then turning around and branding things which are not racist as racist, purely because they've run out of ideas
The irony is spectacular
i) Again, the abuse McClean takes for not wearing a poppy is not racist because the abuse is not because of the colour of his skin, nor is it even because he is Irish - it is because of him not wearing a poppy and because of public utterances which lead to him being perceived as a supporter of Irish Republicanism including the IRA - I agree that the abuse he takes is vile and certainly some of those who abuse him are racists and generally horrible people, but the fact remains that booing somebody for not wearing a poppy is not in itself racist
ii) The taking of the knee is a gesture which is explicitly in support of racial equality
You can't claim with a straight face, or expect to be taken seriously, if you claim, as you do that i) is racist, but booing ii) is not racist
It's utterly ludicrous
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 06:08:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 05:56:57 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:41:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 05:27:06 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:20:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 04:55:08 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 04:23:32 PM
Exactly my point. Selective double standards that is doing more harm than good.
Agree on taking the knee as well, it's an empty gesture at this stage and is being forced on teams now, like their poppies every year too. Both of which shouldn't be in or be part of football.
If it was an empty gesture, there wouldn't be such opposition to it from racists, like at Millwall last weekend
There you go. You label those who don't wish to conform to the way the fake hysteria busybodies do things, like the Millwall fans. Are we now going to do a kneel before every sporting event for the rest of time? Why aren't we kneeling in solidarity for the racial abuse McClean suffers. Like the poppies, this gesture is now being forced upon football before any game. It has lost its credibility.
So why did Millwall supporters boo the taking of the knee?
And why did the Millwall team then not take the knee for their next match?
You're now portraying Millwall supporters as victims in this
How are they victims?
Again, deliberately inflammatory language and whataboutery permeates your post - that is not good faith engagement
The millwall team didn't do it in their next match because the manager said they wanted to make a stand in their own way.
Many people have an issue with the BLM movement, that it actually creates division instead of promoting unity. Im no millwall supprter but they obviously felt the same way, or dont like having an empty gesture forced upon the sport without any real action being done.
But god help anyone who refuses to be forced to take the knee or the double standard pitchfork wielding busybodies will be onto them.
The taking of the knee is not connected to the Black Lives Matter movement - it may have been at the start but it no longer is - it is a gesture by players - which was started at the behest of players, in support of racial equality
Why was that booed?
How is the taking of the knee "divisive"?
And to take up your talking point, how is the Black Lives Matter movement "divisive", or why should it deemed to be divisive?
I actually don't disagree that it is divisive - you can divide reactions to the BLM movement into those of anti-racists and those of racists
So it's quite instructive in setting out that divide
The Millwall team obviously didn't take a knee at the QPR game because the taking of the knee had been booed in a racist manner by their supporters, the club hierarchy were embarrassed, they didn't want a repeat and so caved in to the racists who booed it
It's an episode of shame for Millwall
Yes it is, it originates from Kaepernick and was the symbol of BLM. The taking of the knee is the players way of showing their solidarity to the BLM movement AND to racial equality.
I wasn't amongst the Millwall fans in the stadium so i don't know their reasoning behind it. I agree it doesn't look good and id be raging if my teams supporters did it, but blindly calling it racist is wrong. This is the fake hysteria and double standard im on about.
If you don't disagree that its divisive then there you go.
But there is no longer a link between BLM and football, the BLM slogans disappeared at the end of the season in July/August
The taking of the knee continued
Also Colin Kaepernick is not Black Lives Matter
There is no other interpretation of the booing of it other than that it was racist - it is a gesture in solidarity with the idea of racial equality
There is no reason to boo it except disagreement with the idea of racial equality
Also Give It To Shooters, you are explicitly calling all those who boo James McClean racist, while simultaneously claiming that it is wrong to say that those who booed the taking of the knee (which is a gesture in support of racial equality) are doing so because of racist motivations
That is an unsquareable circle
And again it's very ironic, considering you were talking about "double standards"
I'd say it's more a case of you getting things upside down, inside out
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 06:11:49 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:53:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 05:41:33 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 05:23:04 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:16:36 PM
You used the term "people of colour". That is now deemed to be racist. They're black. Just like the Istanbul coach. Maybe you should check your own language, and ask your fellow members of the snowflake generation what are the correct terms to use before you start preaching to others.
The term "people of colour" is not deemed to be racist
I have no idea why you claim it is when presumably you know full well that it isn't
Again, "snowflake", "preaching", these are not good faith engagements, they are the calling cards of somebody with a wilfully closed mind who gets defensive when they can't defend their arguments
Yes it is. It is offensive to black people, that's widely known.
I'm defending my arguments, but i don't get my knickers in a twist over the words you use do I? Address the point i'm making or log off, you don't get to decide what words are "good faith engagements", and get off your high horse when you're at it.
Read your post back
In the same you post in which you claim you're not getting your knickers in a twist over words I use, you then do exactly that
"That's widely known", lolz
The term people of colour is a widely used and accepted term - and it does not preclude the use of the term "black people"
In a thread where you have consistently used the word "snowflake", you are now objecting to the use of a widely used and accepted term because you have run out of any other ideas - the irony is spectacular
James McClean doesn't suffer racial abuse
Do you not see the irony in what you are saying - you are claiming that McClean suffers racial abuse - he doesn't - the abuse he takes is not for the colour of his skin or even because he is Irish (and I'm certainly not defending the abuse he takes, it's horrible) - but when Millwall fans boo the taking of the knee and I call it racist - because it is - there's literally no other way to interpret it - you then claim Millwall fans are victims
These Millwall fans who booed the taking of the knee are the same people who boo McClean for not wearing a poppy by the way
How can they be racists when they boo McClean, yet fearless warriors for free speech when they boo the taking of the knee?
You don't get to decide whether I'm logged on or logged off just because you can't deal with my points
I think any reasonable person can see that your engagements are not in good faith - and the angry tone of your posts is a giveaway that you yourself realise this on some level
Not quite Sid.
"People of colour" is an offensive term to black people. They're not "coloured", they're black. The fact you act like a know-it-all but don't know something so basic as this is hilarious.
You can't engage or offer a credible debate so you resort to getting offended at the words I use, make your mind up.
As you have done before on this board, you seem to pick out the word snowflake quite a lot when people break down your argument, and target that word instead of the point they make. That is snowflake behaviour.
McClean does suffer racial abuse, but because he's not black then people like you get all fake outraged.
Booing the take of the knee is not in itself racist either.
The term "people of colour" is a widely used and accepted term - and it does not preclude the use of the term "black people"
You really need to get onto Channel 4 News, BBC, the Guardian, Amensty International etc. and indeed all the people of colour who use the term
You do understand that the term "people of colour" and the term "coloured" are NOT the same thing? Right? I only say it because from that post it appears you don't understand that
It's actually hilarious seeing somebody whose central point is to deny or downplay racism then turning around and branding things which are not racist as racist, purely because they've run out of ideas
The irony is spectacular
i) Again, the abuse McClean takes for not wearing a poppy is not racist because the abuse is not because of the colour of his skin, nor is it even because he is Irish - it is because of him not wearing a poppy and because of public utterances which lead to him being perceived as a supporter of Irish Republicanism including the IRA - I agree that the abuse he takes is vile and certainly some of those who abuse him are racists and generally horrible people, but the fact remains that booing somebody for not wearing a poppy is not in itself racist
ii) The taking of the knee is a gesture which is explicitly in support of racial equality
You can't claim with a straight face, or expect to be taken seriously, if you claim, as you do that i) is racist and booing ii) is not racist
It's utterly ludicrous
No it isn't. The term is offensive to black people. The irony is that you use this offensive term while trying to portray yourself as some sort of racial progressive ;D
I'm not talking about poppies. McClean has suffered racial abuse in the past, because he is Irish, but the double standard brigade that you are part of sees no issue, only because he isn't black.
Ill address poppies since you brought it up, you claim that it isnt racist to boo someone for not wearing a poppy, but it is racist to boo someone not taking the knee.
Now THAT is what's utterly ludicrous. Make your mind up ;D
You pitchfork-wielding fake hysteria crowd don't get to adjudicate, and you only do it anyway to suit your own narrative.
Quote from: thewobbler on December 10, 2020, 06:01:37 PM
Any chance of a mod deleting the last 3 pages?
Which parts would you like deleted?
Some?
All?
Do please expand, and give reasons
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
1. The fake outrage of the whole population, and how they're commenting on the matter, with their pitchforks out for the 4th official. You contradict yourself there also, for some reason you seem to think white people can't be offended for being called white, but black people can be offended for being called black. That is the double standard, and people like you play a part in this double standard snowflake culture because people like you think they can tell people what they can and cannot be offended by, but you don't have that right. It's either racist, or it isn't.
The "whole population" "with their pitchforks out for the 4th official"?
The whole population of where? The whole population of some Twitter thread?
I didn't tell anyone what they can or cannot be offended by. I said that white people do not have cause to be offended for being singled out as white based on the history of racism like black people would. Lots of people feel they are victims for bullshit reasons. Look at the Republican base in the US. Doesn't mean it is justified or that there is a real double standard at play.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
2. I haven't a clue what you're on about here. I'm saying the snowflake generation are trying to turn non racist things out to be racist, and this is now the culture that they are forcing upon us. A commentator cannot now praise Sterling or Traore's speed after good play without the fear of the woke fake hysteria crowd getting their pitchforks out.
Pitchforks again.
The BBC's concerns about sensitivity are based on real historical facts. There WAS racist commentary and stereotyping of black players. As with any issue like this, the solutions are not always neat and cut and dried. Cultural evolution can be clumsy or over-cautious; there's no manual to refer to. Most people are happy to let it play out. Others wine about political correctness or, in the example of a former member here, not being allowed to use the "n" word when some black people use it themselves.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
3. You're mistaken here. PSG walking off the pitch isn't the issue. It's the fake hysteria surrounding a nothing issue, a black man being called a black man. Again, I'm not talking about McClean and poppies, i'm talking about the abuse he gets for being Irish etc and the difference in the fake outrage of a black man being called a black man and McClean's racial abuse. But because he's not black and he's irish no one has the pitchforks out for those who abuse him. Double standards and fake outrage in a nutshell. It's only an issue when it suits them, and this does more harm than good.
We're going around in circles. The vast majority of people probably aren't even aware of McClean, his protest and the abuse he gets. Wider society just doesn't seem to care that much. Neither, according to him, do his Irish teammates. Most people in the south have, rightly or wrongly, moved on from the Troubles; so have most of the English. We're mostly all friends now. McClean is protesting something that mostly happened 30-50 years ago (in a clumsy, self-sabotaging manner, at times), whereas racism against black people is still a "here and now" problem. One person and his relatively parochial cause against a worldwide issue.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
4. I'll use another example then.
"Chairman/woman" – Chair, chairperson, convenor, head. "Manpower" – Human resources, labour force, staff, personnel, workers, workforce. "Sportsmanship" – Fairness, good humour, sense of fair play.
These are some of the words the snowflake generation are trying to cancel, or else you face public victimisation if you use them. This is the culture that is creeping in, and as outlined in point 2, stems from fake outrage and double standards.
Again, on the words themselves, so what?
On the supposed pile-on for those who do use those words, any chance of examples of this victimization?
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 06:17:53 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 06:08:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 05:56:57 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:41:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 05:27:06 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:20:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 04:55:08 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 04:23:32 PM
Exactly my point. Selective double standards that is doing more harm than good.
Agree on taking the knee as well, it's an empty gesture at this stage and is being forced on teams now, like their poppies every year too. Both of which shouldn't be in or be part of football.
If it was an empty gesture, there wouldn't be such opposition to it from racists, like at Millwall last weekend
There you go. You label those who don't wish to conform to the way the fake hysteria busybodies do things, like the Millwall fans. Are we now going to do a kneel before every sporting event for the rest of time? Why aren't we kneeling in solidarity for the racial abuse McClean suffers. Like the poppies, this gesture is now being forced upon football before any game. It has lost its credibility.
So why did Millwall supporters boo the taking of the knee?
And why did the Millwall team then not take the knee for their next match?
You're now portraying Millwall supporters as victims in this
How are they victims?
Again, deliberately inflammatory language and whataboutery permeates your post - that is not good faith engagement
The millwall team didn't do it in their next match because the manager said they wanted to make a stand in their own way.
Many people have an issue with the BLM movement, that it actually creates division instead of promoting unity. Im no millwall supprter but they obviously felt the same way, or dont like having an empty gesture forced upon the sport without any real action being done.
But god help anyone who refuses to be forced to take the knee or the double standard pitchfork wielding busybodies will be onto them.
The taking of the knee is not connected to the Black Lives Matter movement - it may have been at the start but it no longer is - it is a gesture by players - which was started at the behest of players, in support of racial equality
Why was that booed?
How is the taking of the knee "divisive"?
And to take up your talking point, how is the Black Lives Matter movement "divisive", or why should it deemed to be divisive?
I actually don't disagree that it is divisive - you can divide reactions to the BLM movement into those of anti-racists and those of racists
So it's quite instructive in setting out that divide
The Millwall team obviously didn't take a knee at the QPR game because the taking of the knee had been booed in a racist manner by their supporters, the club hierarchy were embarrassed, they didn't want a repeat and so caved in to the racists who booed it
It's an episode of shame for Millwall
Yes it is, it originates from Kaepernick and was the symbol of BLM. The taking of the knee is the players way of showing their solidarity to the BLM movement AND to racial equality.
I wasn't amongst the Millwall fans in the stadium so i don't know their reasoning behind it. I agree it doesn't look good and id be raging if my teams supporters did it, but blindly calling it racist is wrong. This is the fake hysteria and double standard im on about.
If you don't disagree that its divisive then there you go.
But there is no longer a link between BLM and football, the BLM slogans disappeared at the end of the season in July/August
The taking of the knee continued
Also Colin Kaepernick is not Black Lives Matter
There is no other interpretation of the booing of it other than that it was racist - it is a gesture in solidarity with the idea of racial equality
There is no reason to boo it except disagreement with the idea of racial equality
I never said he was BLM. I said that's where it came from.
The taking of the knee is used in football to carry on BLM's message, and that is the now universal symbol for racial equality, and as this is done before every game, there most definitely is a link between BLM and football.
No other interpretation for it being racist just because you said so? People don't appreciate the divisiveness the BLM movement can be, and the fact an empty gesture is forced upon the game by the double standard brigade, when other issues are overlooked, maybe that's why.
However booing the not wearing the poppy is not racist, but booing not taking the knee is. You're some craic. The irony is fantastic
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 06:24:04 PM
Also Give It To Shooters, you are explicitly calling all those who boo James McClean racist, while simultaneously claiming that it is wrong to say that those who booed the taking of the knee (which is a gesture in support of racial equality) are doing so because of racist motivations
That is an unsquareable circle
And again it's very ironic, considering you were talking about "double standards"
I'd say it's more a case of you getting things upside down, inside out
Not all abuse he gets is racist, some of it is, some is sectarian.
You don't know their reasoning, it could be regarding the BLM movement and the empty gestures and the ignoring of other issues. But to blindly label it as racism would be wide of the mark
Hope that clarifies for you.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 06:27:22 PM
No it isn't. The term is offensive to black people. The irony is that you use this offensive term while trying to portray yourself as some sort of racial progressive ;D
I'm not talking about poppies. McClean has suffered racial abuse in the past, because he is Irish, but the double standard brigade that you are part of sees no issue, only because he isn't black.
Ill address poppies since you brought it up, you claim that it isnt racist to boo someone for not wearing a poppy, but it is racist to boo someone not taking the knee.
Now THAT is what's utterly ludicrous. Make your mind up ;D
You pitchfork-wielding fake hysteria crowd don't get to adjudicate, and you only do it anyway to suit your own narrative.
You're talking complete ráiméis
Again, the term "people of colour" is a widely used and accepted term
It is used throughout public discourse including by people of racial and ethnic minorities
In your previous post you displayed that you didn't understand the difference between the term "people of colour" and the term "coloured", which is no longer considered an acceptable term, except in relation to the South African "coloured" people, who self-identify as such
This is spectacular ignorance of such basic terminology
Your continual invocation of McClean is ludicrous
You're using him purely as a prop to try and deflect away from a deeply racist narrative that refuses point blank to engage with what real victims of racism are saying
Stunning ignorance
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 06:38:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 06:24:04 PM
Also Give It To Shooters, you are explicitly calling all those who boo James McClean racist, while simultaneously claiming that it is wrong to say that those who booed the taking of the knee (which is a gesture in support of racial equality) are doing so because of racist motivations
That is an unsquareable circle
And again it's very ironic, considering you were talking about "double standards"
I'd say it's more a case of you getting things upside down, inside out
Not all abuse he gets is racist, some of it is, some is sectarian.
You don't know their reasoning, it could be regarding the BLM movement and the empty gestures and the ignoring of other issues. But to blindly label it as racism would be wide of the mark
Hope that clarifies for you.
The reasoning is self-evident
It is not an empty gesture, otherwise it would not meet such opposition
You still don't get it
McClean is not being abused because of the colour of his skin or his ethnicity or his religion
He is being abused because he took a stand which offends little Englanders, and because he is not shy about voicing political opinions which offend little Englanders
And you haven't dealt with your own double standards
You're all over the place and it is getting pitiful
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 06:30:49 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
1. The fake outrage of the whole population, and how they're commenting on the matter, with their pitchforks out for the 4th official. You contradict yourself there also, for some reason you seem to think white people can't be offended for being called white, but black people can be offended for being called black. That is the double standard, and people like you play a part in this double standard snowflake culture because people like you think they can tell people what they can and cannot be offended by, but you don't have that right. It's either racist, or it isn't.
The "whole population" "with their pitchforks out for the 4th official"?
The whole population of where? The whole population of some Twitter thread?
I didn't tell anyone what they can or cannot be offended by. I said that white people do not have cause to be offended for being singled out as white based on the history of racism like black people would. Lots of people feel they are victims for bullshit reasons. Look at the Republican base in the US. Doesn't mean it is justified or that there is a real double standard at play.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
2. I haven't a clue what you're on about here. I'm saying the snowflake generation are trying to turn non racist things out to be racist, and this is now the culture that they are forcing upon us. A commentator cannot now praise Sterling or Traore's speed after good play without the fear of the woke fake hysteria crowd getting their pitchforks out.
Pitchforks again.
The BBC's concerns about sensitivity are based on real historical facts. There WAS racist commentary and stereotyping of black players. As with any issue like this, the solutions are not always neat and cut and dried. Cultural evolution can be clumsy or over-cautious; there's no manual to refer to. Most people are happy to let it play out. Others wine about political correctness or, in the example of a former member here, not being allowed to use the "n" word when some black people use it themselves.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
3. You're mistaken here. PSG walking off the pitch isn't the issue. It's the fake hysteria surrounding a nothing issue, a black man being called a black man. Again, I'm not talking about McClean and poppies, i'm talking about the abuse he gets for being Irish etc and the difference in the fake outrage of a black man being called a black man and McClean's racial abuse. But because he's not black and he's irish no one has the pitchforks out for those who abuse him. Double standards and fake outrage in a nutshell. It's only an issue when it suits them, and this does more harm than good.
We're going around in circles. The vast majority of people probably aren't even aware of McClean, his protest and the abuse he gets. Wider society just doesn't seem to care that much. Neither, according to him, do his Irish teammates. Most people in the south have, rightly or wrongly, moved on from the Troubles; so have most of the English. We're mostly all friends now. McClean is protesting something that mostly happened 30-50 years ago (in a clumsy, self-sabotaging manner, at times), whereas racism against black people is still a "here and now" problem. One person and his relatively parochial cause against a worldwide issue.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
4. I'll use another example then.
"Chairman/woman" – Chair, chairperson, convenor, head. "Manpower" – Human resources, labour force, staff, personnel, workers, workforce. "Sportsmanship" – Fairness, good humour, sense of fair play.
These are some of the words the snowflake generation are trying to cancel, or else you face public victimisation if you use them. This is the culture that is creeping in, and as outlined in point 2, stems from fake outrage and double standards.
Again, on the words themselves, so what?
On the supposed pile-on for those who do use those words, any chance of examples of this victimization?
1. You claim again that you dont get to decide what people get offended by, then proceed to say white people have no reason to be offended. Make your mind up. That is double standards.
2. I'm talking about the phrases they have banned. This is the work of snowflakes getting fake outraged.
3. That's irrelevant. Doesn't make the abuse he gets ok. Calling a black man a black man is deemed racist but mcclean being called an Irish (insert whatever slur you want) is not deemed racist or discriminatory. And therein lies the fake outrage.
4. Yes, the snowflake generation publicly victimising and attacking people who dont use this new "progressive" vocabulary. Therefore doing more harm to the issue than good.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 06:47:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 06:30:49 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
1. The fake outrage of the whole population, and how they're commenting on the matter, with their pitchforks out for the 4th official. You contradict yourself there also, for some reason you seem to think white people can't be offended for being called white, but black people can be offended for being called black. That is the double standard, and people like you play a part in this double standard snowflake culture because people like you think they can tell people what they can and cannot be offended by, but you don't have that right. It's either racist, or it isn't.
The "whole population" "with their pitchforks out for the 4th official"?
The whole population of where? The whole population of some Twitter thread?
I didn't tell anyone what they can or cannot be offended by. I said that white people do not have cause to be offended for being singled out as white based on the history of racism like black people would. Lots of people feel they are victims for bullshit reasons. Look at the Republican base in the US. Doesn't mean it is justified or that there is a real double standard at play.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
2. I haven't a clue what you're on about here. I'm saying the snowflake generation are trying to turn non racist things out to be racist, and this is now the culture that they are forcing upon us. A commentator cannot now praise Sterling or Traore's speed after good play without the fear of the woke fake hysteria crowd getting their pitchforks out.
Pitchforks again.
The BBC's concerns about sensitivity are based on real historical facts. There WAS racist commentary and stereotyping of black players. As with any issue like this, the solutions are not always neat and cut and dried. Cultural evolution can be clumsy or over-cautious; there's no manual to refer to. Most people are happy to let it play out. Others wine about political correctness or, in the example of a former member here, not being allowed to use the "n" word when some black people use it themselves.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
3. You're mistaken here. PSG walking off the pitch isn't the issue. It's the fake hysteria surrounding a nothing issue, a black man being called a black man. Again, I'm not talking about McClean and poppies, i'm talking about the abuse he gets for being Irish etc and the difference in the fake outrage of a black man being called a black man and McClean's racial abuse. But because he's not black and he's irish no one has the pitchforks out for those who abuse him. Double standards and fake outrage in a nutshell. It's only an issue when it suits them, and this does more harm than good.
We're going around in circles. The vast majority of people probably aren't even aware of McClean, his protest and the abuse he gets. Wider society just doesn't seem to care that much. Neither, according to him, do his Irish teammates. Most people in the south have, rightly or wrongly, moved on from the Troubles; so have most of the English. We're mostly all friends now. McClean is protesting something that mostly happened 30-50 years ago (in a clumsy, self-sabotaging manner, at times), whereas racism against black people is still a "here and now" problem. One person and his relatively parochial cause against a worldwide issue.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
4. I'll use another example then.
"Chairman/woman" – Chair, chairperson, convenor, head. "Manpower" – Human resources, labour force, staff, personnel, workers, workforce. "Sportsmanship" – Fairness, good humour, sense of fair play.
These are some of the words the snowflake generation are trying to cancel, or else you face public victimisation if you use them. This is the culture that is creeping in, and as outlined in point 2, stems from fake outrage and double standards.
Again, on the words themselves, so what?
On the supposed pile-on for those who do use those words, any chance of examples of this victimization?
1. You claim again that you dont get to decide what people get offended by, then proceed to say white people have no reason to be offended. Make your mind up. That is double standards.
2. I'm talking about the phrases they have banned. This is the work of snowflakes getting fake outraged.
3. That's irrelevant. Doesn't make the abuse he gets ok. Calling a black man a black man is deemed racist but mcclean being called an Irish (insert whatever slur you want) is not deemed racist or discriminatory. And therein lies the fake outrage.
4. Yes, the snowflake generation publicly victimising and attacking people who dont use this new "progressive" vocabulary. Therefore doing more harm to the issue than good.
1. I said no reason based on the history of racism. You even bolded it FFS.
2. You're the only one here getting outraged. Most people are happy to go along with it.
3. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. You can give zero fucks about James McClean, probably because you don't even know about him, while still rejecting racism or even prematurely losing your shit over what that linesman said.
4. No examples then?
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 06:40:22 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 06:27:22 PM
No it isn't. The term is offensive to black people. The irony is that you use this offensive term while trying to portray yourself as some sort of racial progressive ;D
I'm not talking about poppies. McClean has suffered racial abuse in the past, because he is Irish, but the double standard brigade that you are part of sees no issue, only because he isn't black.
Ill address poppies since you brought it up, you claim that it isnt racist to boo someone for not wearing a poppy, but it is racist to boo someone not taking the knee.
Now THAT is what's utterly ludicrous. Make your mind up ;D
You pitchfork-wielding fake hysteria crowd don't get to adjudicate, and you only do it anyway to suit your own narrative.
You're talking complete ráiméis
Again, the term "people of colour" is a widely used and accepted term
It is used throughout public discourse including by people of racial and ethnic minorities
In your previous post you displayed that you didn't understand the difference between the term "people of colour" and the term "coloured", which is no longer considered an acceptable term, except in relation to the South African "coloured" people, who self-identify as such
This is spectacular ignorance of such basic terminology
Your continual invocation of McClean is ludicrous
You're using him purely as a prop to try and deflect away from a deeply racist narrative that refuses point blank to engage with what real victims of racism are saying
Stunning ignorance
No it isn't. Both are frowned upon.
Your continual disregarding of McClean is what is ludicrous. Again the work of the double standard and fake outrage brigade. Calling a black man a black man is racist but call a white man anything you want and sure its grand.
That's the real ignorance, and the result of the woke pitchfork wielding hysterics that society is now at the behest of. It's like a radical new religion.
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 06:45:25 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 06:38:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 06:24:04 PM
Also Give It To Shooters, you are explicitly calling all those who boo James McClean racist, while simultaneously claiming that it is wrong to say that those who booed the taking of the knee (which is a gesture in support of racial equality) are doing so because of racist motivations
That is an unsquareable circle
And again it's very ironic, considering you were talking about "double standards"
I'd say it's more a case of you getting things upside down, inside out
Not all abuse he gets is racist, some of it is, some is sectarian.
You don't know their reasoning, it could be regarding the BLM movement and the empty gestures and the ignoring of other issues. But to blindly label it as racism would be wide of the mark
Hope that clarifies for you.
The reasoning is self-evident
It is not an empty gesture, otherwise it would not meet such opposition
You still don't get it
McClean is not being abused because of the colour of his skin or his ethnicity or his religion
He is being abused because he took a stand which offends little Englanders, and because he is not shy about voicing political opinions which offend little Englanders
And you haven't dealt with your own double standards
You're all over the place and it is getting pitiful
Self evident ;D in other words ill label anything i dont agree with as racism.
Again, im not talking about poppies. I'm talking about the racial aspect. The fact you can't address that in equal measure to the fake outrage surrounding the issue the other night speaks volumes. Again, only when it suits you and the double standard brigade.
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 06:52:38 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 06:47:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 06:30:49 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
1. The fake outrage of the whole population, and how they're commenting on the matter, with their pitchforks out for the 4th official. You contradict yourself there also, for some reason you seem to think white people can't be offended for being called white, but black people can be offended for being called black. That is the double standard, and people like you play a part in this double standard snowflake culture because people like you think they can tell people what they can and cannot be offended by, but you don't have that right. It's either racist, or it isn't.
The "whole population" "with their pitchforks out for the 4th official"?
The whole population of where? The whole population of some Twitter thread?
I didn't tell anyone what they can or cannot be offended by. I said that white people do not have cause to be offended for being singled out as white based on the history of racism like black people would. Lots of people feel they are victims for bullshit reasons. Look at the Republican base in the US. Doesn't mean it is justified or that there is a real double standard at play.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
2. I haven't a clue what you're on about here. I'm saying the snowflake generation are trying to turn non racist things out to be racist, and this is now the culture that they are forcing upon us. A commentator cannot now praise Sterling or Traore's speed after good play without the fear of the woke fake hysteria crowd getting their pitchforks out.
Pitchforks again.
The BBC's concerns about sensitivity are based on real historical facts. There WAS racist commentary and stereotyping of black players. As with any issue like this, the solutions are not always neat and cut and dried. Cultural evolution can be clumsy or over-cautious; there's no manual to refer to. Most people are happy to let it play out. Others wine about political correctness or, in the example of a former member here, not being allowed to use the "n" word when some black people use it themselves.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
3. You're mistaken here. PSG walking off the pitch isn't the issue. It's the fake hysteria surrounding a nothing issue, a black man being called a black man. Again, I'm not talking about McClean and poppies, i'm talking about the abuse he gets for being Irish etc and the difference in the fake outrage of a black man being called a black man and McClean's racial abuse. But because he's not black and he's irish no one has the pitchforks out for those who abuse him. Double standards and fake outrage in a nutshell. It's only an issue when it suits them, and this does more harm than good.
We're going around in circles. The vast majority of people probably aren't even aware of McClean, his protest and the abuse he gets. Wider society just doesn't seem to care that much. Neither, according to him, do his Irish teammates. Most people in the south have, rightly or wrongly, moved on from the Troubles; so have most of the English. We're mostly all friends now. McClean is protesting something that mostly happened 30-50 years ago (in a clumsy, self-sabotaging manner, at times), whereas racism against black people is still a "here and now" problem. One person and his relatively parochial cause against a worldwide issue.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
4. I'll use another example then.
"Chairman/woman" – Chair, chairperson, convenor, head. "Manpower" – Human resources, labour force, staff, personnel, workers, workforce. "Sportsmanship" – Fairness, good humour, sense of fair play.
These are some of the words the snowflake generation are trying to cancel, or else you face public victimisation if you use them. This is the culture that is creeping in, and as outlined in point 2, stems from fake outrage and double standards.
Again, on the words themselves, so what?
On the supposed pile-on for those who do use those words, any chance of examples of this victimization?
1. You claim again that you dont get to decide what people get offended by, then proceed to say white people have no reason to be offended. Make your mind up. That is double standards.
2. I'm talking about the phrases they have banned. This is the work of snowflakes getting fake outraged.
3. That's irrelevant. Doesn't make the abuse he gets ok. Calling a black man a black man is deemed racist but mcclean being called an Irish (insert whatever slur you want) is not deemed racist or discriminatory. And therein lies the fake outrage.
4. Yes, the snowflake generation publicly victimising and attacking people who dont use this new "progressive" vocabulary. Therefore doing more harm to the issue than good.
1. I said no reason based on the history of racism. You even bolded it FFS.
2. You're the only one here getting outraged. Most people are happy to go along with it.
3. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. You can give zero fucks about James McClean, probably because you don't even know about him, while still rejecting racism or even prematurely losing your shit over what that linesman said.
4. No examples then?
1. I bolded it because you contradicted yourself, in the very next sentence.
2. I'm not outraged, im pointing out that this is the path we're now going down thanks to snowflakes, that even calling a black man black is racist. But not the other way round. Thus creating a culture of double standards.
3.What's so hard to understand? What the linesman said wasnt racist. You're now trying to deny the double standards, while affirming what the linesman said was racist. This is the culture we're now finding ourselves in.
4. Aye plenty. Look through your own posts. Any debates that snowflakes would get their knickers in a twist over, you have done so, and youre doing again now.
Sure by your own narrative McClean is a "snowflake"
That's certainly not me saying it - it's you!
In reality McClean has no relevance to this conversation
The only reason to reference him is to deflect from racism
The irony is McClean is being used as a prop to advance a nakedly racist, white supremacist narrative
You couldn't make this shit up
Racists are loud, they are persistent and they are impervious to reason, they're like anti-vaxxers
That's why discussions with them always end us as shitshows
Deeply, deeply depressing
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 07:07:52 PM
Sure by your own narrative McClean is a "snowflake"
That's certainly not me saying it - it's you!
In reality McClean has no relevance to this conversation
The only reason to reference him is to deflect from racism
The irony is McClean is being used as a prop to advance a nakedly racist, white supremacist narrative
You couldn't make this shit up
Deeply, deeply depressing
Racists are loud, they are persistent and they are impervious to reason, they're like anti-vaxxers
That's why discussions with them always end us as shitshows
Ill spell it out for you again..
I didn't say McClean was a snowflake.
He did have relevance. I pointed out the difference, or lack of, public outcry when comparing his racial abuse and the non-issue of a black man being called a black man, therefore highlighting the double standards and fake outrage.
It wasn't to deflect from racism either, as there was no actual racism.
What is depressing that this is the kind of culture you and your like are forcing on the rest of society, and subject them to public victimisation if they dont conform to the way the snowflake generation do things.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 06:56:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 06:45:25 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 06:38:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 06:24:04 PM
Also Give It To Shooters, you are explicitly calling all those who boo James McClean racist, while simultaneously claiming that it is wrong to say that those who booed the taking of the knee (which is a gesture in support of racial equality) are doing so because of racist motivations
That is an unsquareable circle
And again it's very ironic, considering you were talking about "double standards"
I'd say it's more a case of you getting things upside down, inside out
Not all abuse he gets is racist, some of it is, some is sectarian.
You don't know their reasoning, it could be regarding the BLM movement and the empty gestures and the ignoring of other issues. But to blindly label it as racism would be wide of the mark
Hope that clarifies for you.
The reasoning is self-evident
It is not an empty gesture, otherwise it would not meet such opposition
You still don't get it
McClean is not being abused because of the colour of his skin or his ethnicity or his religion
He is being abused because he took a stand which offends little Englanders, and because he is not shy about voicing political opinions which offend little Englanders
And you haven't dealt with your own double standards
You're all over the place and it is getting pitiful
Self evident ;D in other words ill label anything i dont agree with as racism.
Again, im not talking about poppies. I'm talking about the racial aspect. The fact you can't address that in equal measure to the fake outrage surrounding the issue the other night speaks volumes. Again, only when it suits you and the double standard brigade.
I correctly call racism as such
You desperately search for things that are not actually racist and brand them racist - you are the very straw man you brand others as
And this is what has been happening for the last three pages, ad nauseum
The problem is that the internet allows eejits to have a lack of shame and construct a fantasy world within which they cocoon themselves
As a demonstration of how Trump, Brexit, Bolsonaro and the anti-vaxx, Covid-denying movements have happened, your contributions here have been an object lesson
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 07:16:56 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 06:56:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 06:45:25 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 06:38:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 06:24:04 PM
Also Give It To Shooters, you are explicitly calling all those who boo James McClean racist, while simultaneously claiming that it is wrong to say that those who booed the taking of the knee (which is a gesture in support of racial equality) are doing so because of racist motivations
That is an unsquareable circle
And again it's very ironic, considering you were talking about "double standards"
I'd say it's more a case of you getting things upside down, inside out
Not all abuse he gets is racist, some of it is, some is sectarian.
You don't know their reasoning, it could be regarding the BLM movement and the empty gestures and the ignoring of other issues. But to blindly label it as racism would be wide of the mark
Hope that clarifies for you.
The reasoning is self-evident
It is not an empty gesture, otherwise it would not meet such opposition
You still don't get it
McClean is not being abused because of the colour of his skin or his ethnicity or his religion
He is being abused because he took a stand which offends little Englanders, and because he is not shy about voicing political opinions which offend little Englanders
And you haven't dealt with your own double standards
You're all over the place and it is getting pitiful
Self evident ;D in other words ill label anything i dont agree with as racism.
Again, im not talking about poppies. I'm talking about the racial aspect. The fact you can't address that in equal measure to the fake outrage surrounding the issue the other night speaks volumes. Again, only when it suits you and the double standard brigade.
I correctly call racism as such
You desperately search for things that are not actually racist and brand them racist - you are the very straw man you brand others as
And this is what has been happening for the last three pages, ad nauseum
The problem is that the internet allows eejits to have a lack of shame and construct a fantasy world within which they cocoon themselves
As a demonstration of how Trump, Brexit, Bolsonaro and the anti-vaxx, Covid-denying movements have happened, your contributions here have been an object lesson
And i correctly call it double standards and fake outrage.
And you are the very snowflake as you have showed again over the last 3 pages.
And yet again, with nothing credible to contribute, you bring up Trump and all the rest when someone doesnt conform to the woke pitchfork wielding hysterics ;D
Like clockwork sid ;D
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 07:04:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 06:52:38 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 06:47:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 06:30:49 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
1. The fake outrage of the whole population, and how they're commenting on the matter, with their pitchforks out for the 4th official. You contradict yourself there also, for some reason you seem to think white people can't be offended for being called white, but black people can be offended for being called black. That is the double standard, and people like you play a part in this double standard snowflake culture because people like you think they can tell people what they can and cannot be offended by, but you don't have that right. It's either racist, or it isn't.
The "whole population" "with their pitchforks out for the 4th official"?
The whole population of where? The whole population of some Twitter thread?
I didn't tell anyone what they can or cannot be offended by. I said that white people do not have cause to be offended for being singled out as white based on the history of racism like black people would. Lots of people feel they are victims for bullshit reasons. Look at the Republican base in the US. Doesn't mean it is justified or that there is a real double standard at play.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
2. I haven't a clue what you're on about here. I'm saying the snowflake generation are trying to turn non racist things out to be racist, and this is now the culture that they are forcing upon us. A commentator cannot now praise Sterling or Traore's speed after good play without the fear of the woke fake hysteria crowd getting their pitchforks out.
Pitchforks again.
The BBC's concerns about sensitivity are based on real historical facts. There WAS racist commentary and stereotyping of black players. As with any issue like this, the solutions are not always neat and cut and dried. Cultural evolution can be clumsy or over-cautious; there's no manual to refer to. Most people are happy to let it play out. Others wine about political correctness or, in the example of a former member here, not being allowed to use the "n" word when some black people use it themselves.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
3. You're mistaken here. PSG walking off the pitch isn't the issue. It's the fake hysteria surrounding a nothing issue, a black man being called a black man. Again, I'm not talking about McClean and poppies, i'm talking about the abuse he gets for being Irish etc and the difference in the fake outrage of a black man being called a black man and McClean's racial abuse. But because he's not black and he's irish no one has the pitchforks out for those who abuse him. Double standards and fake outrage in a nutshell. It's only an issue when it suits them, and this does more harm than good.
We're going around in circles. The vast majority of people probably aren't even aware of McClean, his protest and the abuse he gets. Wider society just doesn't seem to care that much. Neither, according to him, do his Irish teammates. Most people in the south have, rightly or wrongly, moved on from the Troubles; so have most of the English. We're mostly all friends now. McClean is protesting something that mostly happened 30-50 years ago (in a clumsy, self-sabotaging manner, at times), whereas racism against black people is still a "here and now" problem. One person and his relatively parochial cause against a worldwide issue.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
4. I'll use another example then.
"Chairman/woman" – Chair, chairperson, convenor, head. "Manpower" – Human resources, labour force, staff, personnel, workers, workforce. "Sportsmanship" – Fairness, good humour, sense of fair play.
These are some of the words the snowflake generation are trying to cancel, or else you face public victimisation if you use them. This is the culture that is creeping in, and as outlined in point 2, stems from fake outrage and double standards.
Again, on the words themselves, so what?
On the supposed pile-on for those who do use those words, any chance of examples of this victimization?
1. You claim again that you dont get to decide what people get offended by, then proceed to say white people have no reason to be offended. Make your mind up. That is double standards.
2. I'm talking about the phrases they have banned. This is the work of snowflakes getting fake outraged.
3. That's irrelevant. Doesn't make the abuse he gets ok. Calling a black man a black man is deemed racist but mcclean being called an Irish (insert whatever slur you want) is not deemed racist or discriminatory. And therein lies the fake outrage.
4. Yes, the snowflake generation publicly victimising and attacking people who dont use this new "progressive" vocabulary. Therefore doing more harm to the issue than good.
1. I said no reason based on the history of racism. You even bolded it FFS.
2. You're the only one here getting outraged. Most people are happy to go along with it.
3. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. You can give zero fucks about James McClean, probably because you don't even know about him, while still rejecting racism or even prematurely losing your shit over what that linesman said.
4. No examples then?
1. I bolded it because you contradicted yourself, in the very next sentence.
2. I'm not outraged, im pointing out that this is the path we're now going down thanks to snowflakes, that even calling a black man black is racist. But not the other way round. Thus creating a culture of double standards.
3.What's so hard to understand? What the linesman said wasnt racist. You're now trying to deny the double standards, while affirming what the linesman said was racist. This is the culture we're now finding ourselves in.
4. Aye plenty. Look through your own posts. Any debates that snowflakes would get their knickers in a twist over, you have done so, and youre doing again now.
1. I looked, and no, I did not.
2. Yet every day black people are called black without incident. I've already said I reckon this was a misunderstanding on the part of the player/coach. There's always idiots on Twitter or wherever no matter what the issue. Most of us seem to carry on regardless.
3. Where did I say the linesman was racist? Is there something in the next sentence "prematurely losing your shit over what the linesman said" that is incomprehensible to you? And still it has nothing to do with McClean.
4. So no examples.
I'm done.
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 07:47:39 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 07:04:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 06:52:38 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 06:47:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 06:30:49 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
1. The fake outrage of the whole population, and how they're commenting on the matter, with their pitchforks out for the 4th official. You contradict yourself there also, for some reason you seem to think white people can't be offended for being called white, but black people can be offended for being called black. That is the double standard, and people like you play a part in this double standard snowflake culture because people like you think they can tell people what they can and cannot be offended by, but you don't have that right. It's either racist, or it isn't.
The "whole population" "with their pitchforks out for the 4th official"?
The whole population of where? The whole population of some Twitter thread?
I didn't tell anyone what they can or cannot be offended by. I said that white people do not have cause to be offended for being singled out as white based on the history of racism like black people would. Lots of people feel they are victims for bullshit reasons. Look at the Republican base in the US. Doesn't mean it is justified or that there is a real double standard at play.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
2. I haven't a clue what you're on about here. I'm saying the snowflake generation are trying to turn non racist things out to be racist, and this is now the culture that they are forcing upon us. A commentator cannot now praise Sterling or Traore's speed after good play without the fear of the woke fake hysteria crowd getting their pitchforks out.
Pitchforks again.
The BBC's concerns about sensitivity are based on real historical facts. There WAS racist commentary and stereotyping of black players. As with any issue like this, the solutions are not always neat and cut and dried. Cultural evolution can be clumsy or over-cautious; there's no manual to refer to. Most people are happy to let it play out. Others wine about political correctness or, in the example of a former member here, not being allowed to use the "n" word when some black people use it themselves.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
3. You're mistaken here. PSG walking off the pitch isn't the issue. It's the fake hysteria surrounding a nothing issue, a black man being called a black man. Again, I'm not talking about McClean and poppies, i'm talking about the abuse he gets for being Irish etc and the difference in the fake outrage of a black man being called a black man and McClean's racial abuse. But because he's not black and he's irish no one has the pitchforks out for those who abuse him. Double standards and fake outrage in a nutshell. It's only an issue when it suits them, and this does more harm than good.
We're going around in circles. The vast majority of people probably aren't even aware of McClean, his protest and the abuse he gets. Wider society just doesn't seem to care that much. Neither, according to him, do his Irish teammates. Most people in the south have, rightly or wrongly, moved on from the Troubles; so have most of the English. We're mostly all friends now. McClean is protesting something that mostly happened 30-50 years ago (in a clumsy, self-sabotaging manner, at times), whereas racism against black people is still a "here and now" problem. One person and his relatively parochial cause against a worldwide issue.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
4. I'll use another example then.
"Chairman/woman" – Chair, chairperson, convenor, head. "Manpower" – Human resources, labour force, staff, personnel, workers, workforce. "Sportsmanship" – Fairness, good humour, sense of fair play.
These are some of the words the snowflake generation are trying to cancel, or else you face public victimisation if you use them. This is the culture that is creeping in, and as outlined in point 2, stems from fake outrage and double standards.
Again, on the words themselves, so what?
On the supposed pile-on for those who do use those words, any chance of examples of this victimization?
1. You claim again that you dont get to decide what people get offended by, then proceed to say white people have no reason to be offended. Make your mind up. That is double standards.
2. I'm talking about the phrases they have banned. This is the work of snowflakes getting fake outraged.
3. That's irrelevant. Doesn't make the abuse he gets ok. Calling a black man a black man is deemed racist but mcclean being called an Irish (insert whatever slur you want) is not deemed racist or discriminatory. And therein lies the fake outrage.
4. Yes, the snowflake generation publicly victimising and attacking people who dont use this new "progressive" vocabulary. Therefore doing more harm to the issue than good.
1. I said no reason based on the history of racism. You even bolded it FFS.
2. You're the only one here getting outraged. Most people are happy to go along with it.
3. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. You can give zero fucks about James McClean, probably because you don't even know about him, while still rejecting racism or even prematurely losing your shit over what that linesman said.
4. No examples then?
1. I bolded it because you contradicted yourself, in the very next sentence.
2. I'm not outraged, im pointing out that this is the path we're now going down thanks to snowflakes, that even calling a black man black is racist. But not the other way round. Thus creating a culture of double standards.
3.What's so hard to understand? What the linesman said wasnt racist. You're now trying to deny the double standards, while affirming what the linesman said was racist. This is the culture we're now finding ourselves in.
4. Aye plenty. Look through your own posts. Any debates that snowflakes would get their knickers in a twist over, you have done so, and youre doing again now.
1. I looked, and no, I did not.
2. Yet every day black people are called black without incident. I've already said I reckon this was a misunderstanding on the part of the player/coach. There's always idiots on Twitter or wherever no matter what the issue. Most of us seem to carry on regardless.
3. Where did I say the linesman was racist? Is there something in the next sentence "prematurely losing your shit over what the linesman said" that is incomprehensible to you? And still it has nothing to do with McClean.
4. So no examples.
I'm done.
1. Yes you did. You said you dont tell anyone what they can and cant be offended by, then said that white people have no cause to be offended. Thats a contradiction.
2. And im pointing out the false outrage when someone is called black, that it automatically is racism just because the person is black, but nothing when its the other way round. And the fact that the snowflake generation are trying to re-write our vocabulary to dictate to us what we can and cant say.
3.You said im rejecting racism. I bolded it. So youre saying that what the linesman said was racist and im rejecting it.
4. Yea plenty. Read through your posts.
Ok thank god for that.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 08:01:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 07:47:39 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 07:04:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 06:52:38 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 06:47:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 06:30:49 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
1. The fake outrage of the whole population, and how they're commenting on the matter, with their pitchforks out for the 4th official. You contradict yourself there also, for some reason you seem to think white people can't be offended for being called white, but black people can be offended for being called black. That is the double standard, and people like you play a part in this double standard snowflake culture because people like you think they can tell people what they can and cannot be offended by, but you don't have that right. It's either racist, or it isn't.
The "whole population" "with their pitchforks out for the 4th official"?
The whole population of where? The whole population of some Twitter thread?
I didn't tell anyone what they can or cannot be offended by. I said that white people do not have cause to be offended for being singled out as white based on the history of racism like black people would. Lots of people feel they are victims for bullshit reasons. Look at the Republican base in the US. Doesn't mean it is justified or that there is a real double standard at play.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
2. I haven't a clue what you're on about here. I'm saying the snowflake generation are trying to turn non racist things out to be racist, and this is now the culture that they are forcing upon us. A commentator cannot now praise Sterling or Traore's speed after good play without the fear of the woke fake hysteria crowd getting their pitchforks out.
Pitchforks again.
The BBC's concerns about sensitivity are based on real historical facts. There WAS racist commentary and stereotyping of black players. As with any issue like this, the solutions are not always neat and cut and dried. Cultural evolution can be clumsy or over-cautious; there's no manual to refer to. Most people are happy to let it play out. Others wine about political correctness or, in the example of a former member here, not being allowed to use the "n" word when some black people use it themselves.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
3. You're mistaken here. PSG walking off the pitch isn't the issue. It's the fake hysteria surrounding a nothing issue, a black man being called a black man. Again, I'm not talking about McClean and poppies, i'm talking about the abuse he gets for being Irish etc and the difference in the fake outrage of a black man being called a black man and McClean's racial abuse. But because he's not black and he's irish no one has the pitchforks out for those who abuse him. Double standards and fake outrage in a nutshell. It's only an issue when it suits them, and this does more harm than good.
We're going around in circles. The vast majority of people probably aren't even aware of McClean, his protest and the abuse he gets. Wider society just doesn't seem to care that much. Neither, according to him, do his Irish teammates. Most people in the south have, rightly or wrongly, moved on from the Troubles; so have most of the English. We're mostly all friends now. McClean is protesting something that mostly happened 30-50 years ago (in a clumsy, self-sabotaging manner, at times), whereas racism against black people is still a "here and now" problem. One person and his relatively parochial cause against a worldwide issue.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
4. I'll use another example then.
"Chairman/woman" – Chair, chairperson, convenor, head. "Manpower" – Human resources, labour force, staff, personnel, workers, workforce. "Sportsmanship" – Fairness, good humour, sense of fair play.
These are some of the words the snowflake generation are trying to cancel, or else you face public victimisation if you use them. This is the culture that is creeping in, and as outlined in point 2, stems from fake outrage and double standards.
Again, on the words themselves, so what?
On the supposed pile-on for those who do use those words, any chance of examples of this victimization?
1. You claim again that you dont get to decide what people get offended by, then proceed to say white people have no reason to be offended. Make your mind up. That is double standards.
2. I'm talking about the phrases they have banned. This is the work of snowflakes getting fake outraged.
3. That's irrelevant. Doesn't make the abuse he gets ok. Calling a black man a black man is deemed racist but mcclean being called an Irish (insert whatever slur you want) is not deemed racist or discriminatory. And therein lies the fake outrage.
4. Yes, the snowflake generation publicly victimising and attacking people who dont use this new "progressive" vocabulary. Therefore doing more harm to the issue than good.
1. I said no reason based on the history of racism. You even bolded it FFS.
2. You're the only one here getting outraged. Most people are happy to go along with it.
3. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. You can give zero fucks about James McClean, probably because you don't even know about him, while still rejecting racism or even prematurely losing your shit over what that linesman said.
4. No examples then?
1. I bolded it because you contradicted yourself, in the very next sentence.
2. I'm not outraged, im pointing out that this is the path we're now going down thanks to snowflakes, that even calling a black man black is racist. But not the other way round. Thus creating a culture of double standards.
3.What's so hard to understand? What the linesman said wasnt racist. You're now trying to deny the double standards, while affirming what the linesman said was racist. This is the culture we're now finding ourselves in.
4. Aye plenty. Look through your own posts. Any debates that snowflakes would get their knickers in a twist over, you have done so, and youre doing again now.
1. I looked, and no, I did not.
2. Yet every day black people are called black without incident. I've already said I reckon this was a misunderstanding on the part of the player/coach. There's always idiots on Twitter or wherever no matter what the issue. Most of us seem to carry on regardless.
3. Where did I say the linesman was racist? Is there something in the next sentence "prematurely losing your shit over what the linesman said" that is incomprehensible to you? And still it has nothing to do with McClean.
4. So no examples.
I'm done.
1. Yes you did. You said you dont tell anyone what they can and cant be offended by, then said that white people have no cause to be offended. Thats a contradiction.
2. And im pointing out the false outrage when someone is called black, that it automatically is racism just because the person is black, but nothing when its the other way round. And the fact that the snowflake generation are trying to re-write our vocabulary to dictate to us what we can and cant say.
3.You said im rejecting racism. I bolded it. So youre saying that what the linesman said was racist and im rejecting it.
4. Yea plenty. Read through your posts.
Ok thank god for that.
All right, one last, probably futile, time...
1. I specifically referred to RACISM. As in there no grounds for a white person, based on history, to consider they're being singled out in such a situation for reasons of racism.
2. Because there is no basis for it the other way around. There is no history of white people being oppressed. Why would a white person be sensitive to racial discrimination when its not something they have to deal with?
3. Makes no sense whatsoever. You're either stupid, or on the wind-up. Presumably the latter.
4. Uh-huh.
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 08:10:28 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 08:01:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 07:47:39 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 07:04:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 06:52:38 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 06:47:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 06:30:49 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
1. The fake outrage of the whole population, and how they're commenting on the matter, with their pitchforks out for the 4th official. You contradict yourself there also, for some reason you seem to think white people can't be offended for being called white, but black people can be offended for being called black. That is the double standard, and people like you play a part in this double standard snowflake culture because people like you think they can tell people what they can and cannot be offended by, but you don't have that right. It's either racist, or it isn't.
The "whole population" "with their pitchforks out for the 4th official"?
The whole population of where? The whole population of some Twitter thread?
I didn't tell anyone what they can or cannot be offended by. I said that white people do not have cause to be offended for being singled out as white based on the history of racism like black people would. Lots of people feel they are victims for bullshit reasons. Look at the Republican base in the US. Doesn't mean it is justified or that there is a real double standard at play.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
2. I haven't a clue what you're on about here. I'm saying the snowflake generation are trying to turn non racist things out to be racist, and this is now the culture that they are forcing upon us. A commentator cannot now praise Sterling or Traore's speed after good play without the fear of the woke fake hysteria crowd getting their pitchforks out.
Pitchforks again.
The BBC's concerns about sensitivity are based on real historical facts. There WAS racist commentary and stereotyping of black players. As with any issue like this, the solutions are not always neat and cut and dried. Cultural evolution can be clumsy or over-cautious; there's no manual to refer to. Most people are happy to let it play out. Others wine about political correctness or, in the example of a former member here, not being allowed to use the "n" word when some black people use it themselves.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
3. You're mistaken here. PSG walking off the pitch isn't the issue. It's the fake hysteria surrounding a nothing issue, a black man being called a black man. Again, I'm not talking about McClean and poppies, i'm talking about the abuse he gets for being Irish etc and the difference in the fake outrage of a black man being called a black man and McClean's racial abuse. But because he's not black and he's irish no one has the pitchforks out for those who abuse him. Double standards and fake outrage in a nutshell. It's only an issue when it suits them, and this does more harm than good.
We're going around in circles. The vast majority of people probably aren't even aware of McClean, his protest and the abuse he gets. Wider society just doesn't seem to care that much. Neither, according to him, do his Irish teammates. Most people in the south have, rightly or wrongly, moved on from the Troubles; so have most of the English. We're mostly all friends now. McClean is protesting something that mostly happened 30-50 years ago (in a clumsy, self-sabotaging manner, at times), whereas racism against black people is still a "here and now" problem. One person and his relatively parochial cause against a worldwide issue.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
4. I'll use another example then.
"Chairman/woman" – Chair, chairperson, convenor, head. "Manpower" – Human resources, labour force, staff, personnel, workers, workforce. "Sportsmanship" – Fairness, good humour, sense of fair play.
These are some of the words the snowflake generation are trying to cancel, or else you face public victimisation if you use them. This is the culture that is creeping in, and as outlined in point 2, stems from fake outrage and double standards.
Again, on the words themselves, so what?
On the supposed pile-on for those who do use those words, any chance of examples of this victimization?
1. You claim again that you dont get to decide what people get offended by, then proceed to say white people have no reason to be offended. Make your mind up. That is double standards.
2. I'm talking about the phrases they have banned. This is the work of snowflakes getting fake outraged.
3. That's irrelevant. Doesn't make the abuse he gets ok. Calling a black man a black man is deemed racist but mcclean being called an Irish (insert whatever slur you want) is not deemed racist or discriminatory. And therein lies the fake outrage.
4. Yes, the snowflake generation publicly victimising and attacking people who dont use this new "progressive" vocabulary. Therefore doing more harm to the issue than good.
1. I said no reason based on the history of racism. You even bolded it FFS.
2. You're the only one here getting outraged. Most people are happy to go along with it.
3. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. You can give zero fucks about James McClean, probably because you don't even know about him, while still rejecting racism or even prematurely losing your shit over what that linesman said.
4. No examples then?
1. I bolded it because you contradicted yourself, in the very next sentence.
2. I'm not outraged, im pointing out that this is the path we're now going down thanks to snowflakes, that even calling a black man black is racist. But not the other way round. Thus creating a culture of double standards.
3.What's so hard to understand? What the linesman said wasnt racist. You're now trying to deny the double standards, while affirming what the linesman said was racist. This is the culture we're now finding ourselves in.
4. Aye plenty. Look through your own posts. Any debates that snowflakes would get their knickers in a twist over, you have done so, and youre doing again now.
1. I looked, and no, I did not.
2. Yet every day black people are called black without incident. I've already said I reckon this was a misunderstanding on the part of the player/coach. There's always idiots on Twitter or wherever no matter what the issue. Most of us seem to carry on regardless.
3. Where did I say the linesman was racist? Is there something in the next sentence "prematurely losing your shit over what the linesman said" that is incomprehensible to you? And still it has nothing to do with McClean.
4. So no examples.
I'm done.
1. Yes you did. You said you dont tell anyone what they can and cant be offended by, then said that white people have no cause to be offended. Thats a contradiction.
2. And im pointing out the false outrage when someone is called black, that it automatically is racism just because the person is black, but nothing when its the other way round. And the fact that the snowflake generation are trying to re-write our vocabulary to dictate to us what we can and cant say.
3.You said im rejecting racism. I bolded it. So youre saying that what the linesman said was racist and im rejecting it.
4. Yea plenty. Read through your posts.
Ok thank god for that.
All right, one last, probably futile, time...
1. I specifically referred to RACISM. As in there no grounds for a white person, based on history, to consider they're being singled out in such a situation for reasons of racism.
2. Because there is no basis for it the other way around. There is no history of white people being oppressed. Why would a white person be sensitive to racial discrimination when its not something they have to deal with?
3. Makes no sense whatsoever. You're either stupid, or on the wind-up. Presumably the latter.
4. Uh-huh.
You're back, that was quick.
1. I know. You don't get to decide what is racism for one side and not racism for the other. It's either racist for both sides, or it isn't. In this case, it wasn't racist. You wouldn't have your pitchforks out if a white man was called a white man in a group of black men. So this situation should be the same. But the views of society have been hijacked by the double standards brigade.
2.Yes there is. It's not one rule for one and no rule for the other. A white person would have to deal with it in a country of indigenous black people.
3. Makes perfect sense. You said im rejecting racism. Which means youre affirming that what the linesman said was racist, when i point out its not racism (because its not, he called a black man, a black man). Its nothing but the double standard brigade losing the run of themselves and being false outraged again.
4. We got there in the end.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 08:27:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 08:10:28 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 08:01:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 07:47:39 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 07:04:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 06:52:38 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 06:47:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 06:30:49 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
1. The fake outrage of the whole population, and how they're commenting on the matter, with their pitchforks out for the 4th official. You contradict yourself there also, for some reason you seem to think white people can't be offended for being called white, but black people can be offended for being called black. That is the double standard, and people like you play a part in this double standard snowflake culture because people like you think they can tell people what they can and cannot be offended by, but you don't have that right. It's either racist, or it isn't.
The "whole population" "with their pitchforks out for the 4th official"?
The whole population of where? The whole population of some Twitter thread?
I didn't tell anyone what they can or cannot be offended by. I said that white people do not have cause to be offended for being singled out as white based on the history of racism like black people would. Lots of people feel they are victims for bullshit reasons. Look at the Republican base in the US. Doesn't mean it is justified or that there is a real double standard at play.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
2. I haven't a clue what you're on about here. I'm saying the snowflake generation are trying to turn non racist things out to be racist, and this is now the culture that they are forcing upon us. A commentator cannot now praise Sterling or Traore's speed after good play without the fear of the woke fake hysteria crowd getting their pitchforks out.
Pitchforks again.
The BBC's concerns about sensitivity are based on real historical facts. There WAS racist commentary and stereotyping of black players. As with any issue like this, the solutions are not always neat and cut and dried. Cultural evolution can be clumsy or over-cautious; there's no manual to refer to. Most people are happy to let it play out. Others wine about political correctness or, in the example of a former member here, not being allowed to use the "n" word when some black people use it themselves.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
3. You're mistaken here. PSG walking off the pitch isn't the issue. It's the fake hysteria surrounding a nothing issue, a black man being called a black man. Again, I'm not talking about McClean and poppies, i'm talking about the abuse he gets for being Irish etc and the difference in the fake outrage of a black man being called a black man and McClean's racial abuse. But because he's not black and he's irish no one has the pitchforks out for those who abuse him. Double standards and fake outrage in a nutshell. It's only an issue when it suits them, and this does more harm than good.
We're going around in circles. The vast majority of people probably aren't even aware of McClean, his protest and the abuse he gets. Wider society just doesn't seem to care that much. Neither, according to him, do his Irish teammates. Most people in the south have, rightly or wrongly, moved on from the Troubles; so have most of the English. We're mostly all friends now. McClean is protesting something that mostly happened 30-50 years ago (in a clumsy, self-sabotaging manner, at times), whereas racism against black people is still a "here and now" problem. One person and his relatively parochial cause against a worldwide issue.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
4. I'll use another example then.
"Chairman/woman" – Chair, chairperson, convenor, head. "Manpower" – Human resources, labour force, staff, personnel, workers, workforce. "Sportsmanship" – Fairness, good humour, sense of fair play.
These are some of the words the snowflake generation are trying to cancel, or else you face public victimisation if you use them. This is the culture that is creeping in, and as outlined in point 2, stems from fake outrage and double standards.
Again, on the words themselves, so what?
On the supposed pile-on for those who do use those words, any chance of examples of this victimization?
1. You claim again that you dont get to decide what people get offended by, then proceed to say white people have no reason to be offended. Make your mind up. That is double standards.
2. I'm talking about the phrases they have banned. This is the work of snowflakes getting fake outraged.
3. That's irrelevant. Doesn't make the abuse he gets ok. Calling a black man a black man is deemed racist but mcclean being called an Irish (insert whatever slur you want) is not deemed racist or discriminatory. And therein lies the fake outrage.
4. Yes, the snowflake generation publicly victimising and attacking people who dont use this new "progressive" vocabulary. Therefore doing more harm to the issue than good.
1. I said no reason based on the history of racism. You even bolded it FFS.
2. You're the only one here getting outraged. Most people are happy to go along with it.
3. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. You can give zero fucks about James McClean, probably because you don't even know about him, while still rejecting racism or even prematurely losing your shit over what that linesman said.
4. No examples then?
1. I bolded it because you contradicted yourself, in the very next sentence.
2. I'm not outraged, im pointing out that this is the path we're now going down thanks to snowflakes, that even calling a black man black is racist. But not the other way round. Thus creating a culture of double standards.
3.What's so hard to understand? What the linesman said wasnt racist. You're now trying to deny the double standards, while affirming what the linesman said was racist. This is the culture we're now finding ourselves in.
4. Aye plenty. Look through your own posts. Any debates that snowflakes would get their knickers in a twist over, you have done so, and youre doing again now.
1. I looked, and no, I did not.
2. Yet every day black people are called black without incident. I've already said I reckon this was a misunderstanding on the part of the player/coach. There's always idiots on Twitter or wherever no matter what the issue. Most of us seem to carry on regardless.
3. Where did I say the linesman was racist? Is there something in the next sentence "prematurely losing your shit over what the linesman said" that is incomprehensible to you? And still it has nothing to do with McClean.
4. So no examples.
I'm done.
1. Yes you did. You said you dont tell anyone what they can and cant be offended by, then said that white people have no cause to be offended. Thats a contradiction.
2. And im pointing out the false outrage when someone is called black, that it automatically is racism just because the person is black, but nothing when its the other way round. And the fact that the snowflake generation are trying to re-write our vocabulary to dictate to us what we can and cant say.
3.You said im rejecting racism. I bolded it. So youre saying that what the linesman said was racist and im rejecting it.
4. Yea plenty. Read through your posts.
Ok thank god for that.
All right, one last, probably futile, time...
1. I specifically referred to RACISM. As in there no grounds for a white person, based on history, to consider they're being singled out in such a situation for reasons of racism.
2. Because there is no basis for it the other way around. There is no history of white people being oppressed. Why would a white person be sensitive to racial discrimination when its not something they have to deal with?
3. Makes no sense whatsoever. You're either stupid, or on the wind-up. Presumably the latter.
4. Uh-huh.
You're back, that was quick.
1. I know. You don't get to decide what is racism for one side and not racism for the other. It's either racist for both sides, or it isn't. In this case, it wasn't racist. You wouldn't have your pitchforks out if a white man was called a white man in a group of black men. So this situation should be the same. But the views of society have been hijacked by the double standards brigade.
2.Yes there is. It's not one rule for one and no rule for the other. A white person would have to deal with it in a country of indigenous black people.
3. Makes perfect sense. You said im rejecting racism. Which means youre affirming that what the linesman said was racist, when i point out its not racism (because its not, he called a black man, a black man). Its nothing but the double standard brigade losing the run of themselves and being false outraged again.
4. We got there in the end.
1. I don't have "pitchforks" out for anyone. And historical context matters, whether you like it or not.
2. Which country is this where the black majority oppressed the white minority? Is it somewhere that would be represented in western society, from where a white person might originate and feel put upon due to his experience of racist policies and attitudes?
3. Its like talking to a wall. I said "You can give zero fucks about James McClean, probably because you don't even know about him, while still rejecting racism
or even prematurely losing your shit over what that linesman said." The only reference to the linesman in that sentence is "prematurely losing your shit over what that linesman said." You can oppose racism and not know about McClean, or think McClean is wrong, or just not know enough about Irish history to have an opinion either way. That's one part. Second part, stuff about McClean and reacting prematurely to the linesman incident. At no point in this "exchange" have I said the linesman was racist. On several occasions I said the whole thing looks to me like a misunderstanding.
4. Not really. If you had examples, you'd post them.
Well at least we know now that GiveItToTheShooters is to the issue of racism what Seaney and Angelo are to Covid and anti-vaxx and Seamus is to conspiracies by giant alien lizards
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 09:24:42 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 08:27:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 08:10:28 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 08:01:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 07:47:39 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 07:04:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 06:52:38 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 06:47:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 06:30:49 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
1. The fake outrage of the whole population, and how they're commenting on the matter, with their pitchforks out for the 4th official. You contradict yourself there also, for some reason you seem to think white people can't be offended for being called white, but black people can be offended for being called black. That is the double standard, and people like you play a part in this double standard snowflake culture because people like you think they can tell people what they can and cannot be offended by, but you don't have that right. It's either racist, or it isn't.
The "whole population" "with their pitchforks out for the 4th official"?
The whole population of where? The whole population of some Twitter thread?
I didn't tell anyone what they can or cannot be offended by. I said that white people do not have cause to be offended for being singled out as white based on the history of racism like black people would. Lots of people feel they are victims for bullshit reasons. Look at the Republican base in the US. Doesn't mean it is justified or that there is a real double standard at play.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
2. I haven't a clue what you're on about here. I'm saying the snowflake generation are trying to turn non racist things out to be racist, and this is now the culture that they are forcing upon us. A commentator cannot now praise Sterling or Traore's speed after good play without the fear of the woke fake hysteria crowd getting their pitchforks out.
Pitchforks again.
The BBC's concerns about sensitivity are based on real historical facts. There WAS racist commentary and stereotyping of black players. As with any issue like this, the solutions are not always neat and cut and dried. Cultural evolution can be clumsy or over-cautious; there's no manual to refer to. Most people are happy to let it play out. Others wine about political correctness or, in the example of a former member here, not being allowed to use the "n" word when some black people use it themselves.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
3. You're mistaken here. PSG walking off the pitch isn't the issue. It's the fake hysteria surrounding a nothing issue, a black man being called a black man. Again, I'm not talking about McClean and poppies, i'm talking about the abuse he gets for being Irish etc and the difference in the fake outrage of a black man being called a black man and McClean's racial abuse. But because he's not black and he's irish no one has the pitchforks out for those who abuse him. Double standards and fake outrage in a nutshell. It's only an issue when it suits them, and this does more harm than good.
We're going around in circles. The vast majority of people probably aren't even aware of McClean, his protest and the abuse he gets. Wider society just doesn't seem to care that much. Neither, according to him, do his Irish teammates. Most people in the south have, rightly or wrongly, moved on from the Troubles; so have most of the English. We're mostly all friends now. McClean is protesting something that mostly happened 30-50 years ago (in a clumsy, self-sabotaging manner, at times), whereas racism against black people is still a "here and now" problem. One person and his relatively parochial cause against a worldwide issue.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
4. I'll use another example then.
"Chairman/woman" – Chair, chairperson, convenor, head. "Manpower" – Human resources, labour force, staff, personnel, workers, workforce. "Sportsmanship" – Fairness, good humour, sense of fair play.
These are some of the words the snowflake generation are trying to cancel, or else you face public victimisation if you use them. This is the culture that is creeping in, and as outlined in point 2, stems from fake outrage and double standards.
Again, on the words themselves, so what?
On the supposed pile-on for those who do use those words, any chance of examples of this victimization?
1. You claim again that you dont get to decide what people get offended by, then proceed to say white people have no reason to be offended. Make your mind up. That is double standards.
2. I'm talking about the phrases they have banned. This is the work of snowflakes getting fake outraged.
3. That's irrelevant. Doesn't make the abuse he gets ok. Calling a black man a black man is deemed racist but mcclean being called an Irish (insert whatever slur you want) is not deemed racist or discriminatory. And therein lies the fake outrage.
4. Yes, the snowflake generation publicly victimising and attacking people who dont use this new "progressive" vocabulary. Therefore doing more harm to the issue than good.
1. I said no reason based on the history of racism. You even bolded it FFS.
2. You're the only one here getting outraged. Most people are happy to go along with it.
3. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. You can give zero fucks about James McClean, probably because you don't even know about him, while still rejecting racism or even prematurely losing your shit over what that linesman said.
4. No examples then?
1. I bolded it because you contradicted yourself, in the very next sentence.
2. I'm not outraged, im pointing out that this is the path we're now going down thanks to snowflakes, that even calling a black man black is racist. But not the other way round. Thus creating a culture of double standards.
3.What's so hard to understand? What the linesman said wasnt racist. You're now trying to deny the double standards, while affirming what the linesman said was racist. This is the culture we're now finding ourselves in.
4. Aye plenty. Look through your own posts. Any debates that snowflakes would get their knickers in a twist over, you have done so, and youre doing again now.
1. I looked, and no, I did not.
2. Yet every day black people are called black without incident. I've already said I reckon this was a misunderstanding on the part of the player/coach. There's always idiots on Twitter or wherever no matter what the issue. Most of us seem to carry on regardless.
3. Where did I say the linesman was racist? Is there something in the next sentence "prematurely losing your shit over what the linesman said" that is incomprehensible to you? And still it has nothing to do with McClean.
4. So no examples.
I'm done.
1. Yes you did. You said you dont tell anyone what they can and cant be offended by, then said that white people have no cause to be offended. Thats a contradiction.
2. And im pointing out the false outrage when someone is called black, that it automatically is racism just because the person is black, but nothing when its the other way round. And the fact that the snowflake generation are trying to re-write our vocabulary to dictate to us what we can and cant say.
3.You said im rejecting racism. I bolded it. So youre saying that what the linesman said was racist and im rejecting it.
4. Yea plenty. Read through your posts.
Ok thank god for that.
All right, one last, probably futile, time...
1. I specifically referred to RACISM. As in there no grounds for a white person, based on history, to consider they're being singled out in such a situation for reasons of racism.
2. Because there is no basis for it the other way around. There is no history of white people being oppressed. Why would a white person be sensitive to racial discrimination when its not something they have to deal with?
3. Makes no sense whatsoever. You're either stupid, or on the wind-up. Presumably the latter.
4. Uh-huh.
You're back, that was quick.
1. I know. You don't get to decide what is racism for one side and not racism for the other. It's either racist for both sides, or it isn't. In this case, it wasn't racist. You wouldn't have your pitchforks out if a white man was called a white man in a group of black men. So this situation should be the same. But the views of society have been hijacked by the double standards brigade.
2.Yes there is. It's not one rule for one and no rule for the other. A white person would have to deal with it in a country of indigenous black people.
3. Makes perfect sense. You said im rejecting racism. Which means youre affirming that what the linesman said was racist, when i point out its not racism (because its not, he called a black man, a black man). Its nothing but the double standard brigade losing the run of themselves and being false outraged again.
4. We got there in the end.
1. I don't have "pitchforks" out for anyone. And historical context matters, whether you like it or not.
2. Which country is this where the black majority oppressed the white minority? Is it somewhere that would be represented in western society, from where a white person might originate and feel put upon due to his experience of racist policies and attitudes?
3. Its like talking to a wall. I said "You can give zero fucks about James McClean, probably because you don't even know about him, while still rejecting racism or even prematurely losing your shit over what that linesman said." The only reference to the linesman in that sentence is "prematurely losing your shit over what that linesman said." You can oppose racism and not know about McClean, or think McClean is wrong, or just not know enough about Irish history to have an opinion either way. That's one part. Second part, stuff about McClean and reacting prematurely to the linesman incident. At no point in this "exchange" have I said the linesman was racist. On several occasions I said the whole thing looks to me like a misunderstanding.
4. Not really. If you had examples, you'd post them.
1. And you dont get to decide what is racist for one side and not racist for another, then proceed to contradict yourself and tell people racism against white people isnt a thing, whether you like it or not.
2. Zimbabwe for example, or most countries in Africa where white people would be subjected to racism. And no ones mentioning oppression, but general racism. Its not representative of western society because it not western, its black Africa.
3. Youve said a load of waffle there to say absolutely nothing in the end. Probably don't know about him ;D No sure ive only been highlighting the racism he faces all day. Ill spell it out for you again. You said im rejecting racism, by you saying that means you feel it was racism, but ive pointed out that it wasnt and showed why the double standard brigade that you are part of seems to think it is.
4. Plenty. Issues particularly relating to the language the snowflake generation are forcing upon us. I've actually called you out on it before, because you seem to get all triggered when someone dare go against issues or use terminology that the snowflake generation would get their pitchforks out at.
On a more wider note, god help anyone that gives a opinion that the snowflake generation havent approved and made the societal norm on the likes of sexism and lgbt rights etc. You have been THAT snowflake on the board regarding such issues like this.
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 10:16:48 PM
Well at least we know now that GiveItToTheShooters is to the issue of racism what Seaney and Angelo are to Covid and anti-vaxx and Seamus is to conspiracies by giant alien lizards
Sure we all know what you're like at this stage. Anybody has an opinion that doesnt conform to the pitchfork wielding liberal elite crowd that you form part of and you start yapping about trump and right wingers etc ;D
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 10:50:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 10:16:48 PM
Well at least we know now that GiveItToTheShooters is to the issue of racism what Seaney and Angelo are to Covid and anti-vaxx and Seamus is to conspiracies by giant alien lizards
Sure we all know what you're like at this stage. Anybody has an opinion that doesnt conform to the pitchfork wielding liberal elite crowd that you form part of and you start yapping about trump and right wingers etc ;D
The racists are the
real victims, apparently ;D
At least if one is to believe you
Fake victimhood ahoy, ironically that's actually being a real snowflake
Literally every post you've made on this thread today has been laden down with unintentional irony and total lack of self awareness
I trust the players in this matter implicitly and the ref official has admitted his input, whether it was malicious or not is besides the point.
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:51:25 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 10:50:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 10:16:48 PM
Well at least we know now that GiveItToTheShooters is to the issue of racism what Seaney and Angelo are to Covid and anti-vaxx and Seamus is to conspiracies by giant alien lizards
Sure we all know what you're like at this stage. Anybody has an opinion that doesnt conform to the pitchfork wielding liberal elite crowd that you form part of and you start yapping about trump and right wingers etc ;D
The racists are the real victims, apparently ;D
At least if one is to believe you
Fake victimhood ahoy, ironically that's actually being a real snowflake
Literally every post you've made on this thread today has been laden down with unintentional irony and total lack of self awareness
There you go again ;D
You've affirmed that it was racism, and because there are some who speak out against the pitchfork-wielding double standard fake outrage snowflake liberal elite, you don't like it.
This is the culture you and your like are trying to force upon the rest of us.
Offended by everything.
And when someone doesnt conform to the snowflake hijacked narrative, they are victimised and branded Trump supporters and right wingers and all the rest of it.
The irony is real alright ;D
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 11, 2020, 12:48:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:51:25 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 10:50:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 10:16:48 PM
Well at least we know now that GiveItToTheShooters is to the issue of racism what Seaney and Angelo are to Covid and anti-vaxx and Seamus is to conspiracies by giant alien lizards
Sure we all know what you're like at this stage. Anybody has an opinion that doesnt conform to the pitchfork wielding liberal elite crowd that you form part of and you start yapping about trump and right wingers etc ;D
The racists are the real victims, apparently ;D
At least if one is to believe you
Fake victimhood ahoy, ironically that's actually being a real snowflake
Literally every post you've made on this thread today has been laden down with unintentional irony and total lack of self awareness
There you go again ;D
You've affirmed that it was racism, and because there are some who speak out against the pitchfork-wielding double standard fake outrage snowflake liberal elite, you don't like it.
This is the culture you and your like are trying to force upon the rest of us.
Offended by everything.
And when someone doesnt conform to the snowflake hijacked narrative, they are victimised and branded Trump supporters and right wingers and all the rest of it.
The irony is real alright ;D
Spiked Online is a hell of drug for eejits
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:32:23 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 11, 2020, 12:48:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:51:25 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 10:50:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 10:16:48 PM
Well at least we know now that GiveItToTheShooters is to the issue of racism what Seaney and Angelo are to Covid and anti-vaxx and Seamus is to conspiracies by giant alien lizards
Sure we all know what you're like at this stage. Anybody has an opinion that doesnt conform to the pitchfork wielding liberal elite crowd that you form part of and you start yapping about trump and right wingers etc ;D
The racists are the real victims, apparently ;D
At least if one is to believe you
Fake victimhood ahoy, ironically that's actually being a real snowflake
Literally every post you've made on this thread today has been laden down with unintentional irony and total lack of self awareness
There you go again ;D
You've affirmed that it was racism, and because there are some who speak out against the pitchfork-wielding double standard fake outrage snowflake liberal elite, you don't like it.
This is the culture you and your like are trying to force upon the rest of us.
Offended by everything.
And when someone doesnt conform to the snowflake hijacked narrative, they are victimised and branded Trump supporters and right wingers and all the rest of it.
The irony is real alright ;D
Spiked Online is a hell of drug for eejits
The only eejit here is you, and everyone on the board knows it.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 11, 2020, 04:36:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:32:23 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 11, 2020, 12:48:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:51:25 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 10:50:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 10:16:48 PM
Well at least we know now that GiveItToTheShooters is to the issue of racism what Seaney and Angelo are to Covid and anti-vaxx and Seamus is to conspiracies by giant alien lizards
Sure we all know what you're like at this stage. Anybody has an opinion that doesnt conform to the pitchfork wielding liberal elite crowd that you form part of and you start yapping about trump and right wingers etc ;D
The racists are the real victims, apparently ;D
At least if one is to believe you
Fake victimhood ahoy, ironically that's actually being a real snowflake
Literally every post you've made on this thread today has been laden down with unintentional irony and total lack of self awareness
There you go again ;D
You've affirmed that it was racism, and because there are some who speak out against the pitchfork-wielding double standard fake outrage snowflake liberal elite, you don't like it.
This is the culture you and your like are trying to force upon the rest of us.
Offended by everything.
And when someone doesnt conform to the snowflake hijacked narrative, they are victimised and branded Trump supporters and right wingers and all the rest of it.
The irony is real alright ;D
Spiked Online is a hell of drug for eejits
The only eejit here is you, and everyone on the board knows it.
Great comeback, you've sure showed me with that
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 04:47:43 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 11, 2020, 04:36:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:32:23 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 11, 2020, 12:48:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:51:25 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 10:50:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 10:16:48 PM
Well at least we know now that GiveItToTheShooters is to the issue of racism what Seaney and Angelo are to Covid and anti-vaxx and Seamus is to conspiracies by giant alien lizards
Sure we all know what you're like at this stage. Anybody has an opinion that doesnt conform to the pitchfork wielding liberal elite crowd that you form part of and you start yapping about trump and right wingers etc ;D
The racists are the real victims, apparently ;D
At least if one is to believe you
Fake victimhood ahoy, ironically that's actually being a real snowflake
Literally every post you've made on this thread today has been laden down with unintentional irony and total lack of self awareness
There you go again ;D
You've affirmed that it was racism, and because there are some who speak out against the pitchfork-wielding double standard fake outrage snowflake liberal elite, you don't like it.
This is the culture you and your like are trying to force upon the rest of us.
Offended by everything.
And when someone doesnt conform to the snowflake hijacked narrative, they are victimised and branded Trump supporters and right wingers and all the rest of it.
The irony is real alright ;D
Spiked Online is a hell of drug for eejits
The only eejit here is you, and everyone on the board knows it.
Great comeback, you've sure showed me with that
Just like your comeback about something ive never heard of. Good one
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 11, 2020, 05:05:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 04:47:43 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 11, 2020, 04:36:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:32:23 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 11, 2020, 12:48:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:51:25 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 10:50:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 10:16:48 PM
Well at least we know now that GiveItToTheShooters is to the issue of racism what Seaney and Angelo are to Covid and anti-vaxx and Seamus is to conspiracies by giant alien lizards
Sure we all know what you're like at this stage. Anybody has an opinion that doesnt conform to the pitchfork wielding liberal elite crowd that you form part of and you start yapping about trump and right wingers etc ;D
The racists are the real victims, apparently ;D
At least if one is to believe you
Fake victimhood ahoy, ironically that's actually being a real snowflake
Literally every post you've made on this thread today has been laden down with unintentional irony and total lack of self awareness
There you go again ;D
You've affirmed that it was racism, and because there are some who speak out against the pitchfork-wielding double standard fake outrage snowflake liberal elite, you don't like it.
This is the culture you and your like are trying to force upon the rest of us.
Offended by everything.
And when someone doesnt conform to the snowflake hijacked narrative, they are victimised and branded Trump supporters and right wingers and all the rest of it.
The irony is real alright ;D
Spiked Online is a hell of drug for eejits
The only eejit here is you, and everyone on the board knows it.
Great comeback, you've sure showed me with that
Just like your comeback about something ive never heard of. Good one
There are a lot of things you haven't heard of
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 05:07:27 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 11, 2020, 05:05:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 04:47:43 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 11, 2020, 04:36:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:32:23 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 11, 2020, 12:48:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:51:25 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 10, 2020, 10:50:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 10:16:48 PM
Well at least we know now that GiveItToTheShooters is to the issue of racism what Seaney and Angelo are to Covid and anti-vaxx and Seamus is to conspiracies by giant alien lizards
Sure we all know what you're like at this stage. Anybody has an opinion that doesnt conform to the pitchfork wielding liberal elite crowd that you form part of and you start yapping about trump and right wingers etc ;D
The racists are the real victims, apparently ;D
At least if one is to believe you
Fake victimhood ahoy, ironically that's actually being a real snowflake
Literally every post you've made on this thread today has been laden down with unintentional irony and total lack of self awareness
There you go again ;D
You've affirmed that it was racism, and because there are some who speak out against the pitchfork-wielding double standard fake outrage snowflake liberal elite, you don't like it.
This is the culture you and your like are trying to force upon the rest of us.
Offended by everything.
And when someone doesnt conform to the snowflake hijacked narrative, they are victimised and branded Trump supporters and right wingers and all the rest of it.
The irony is real alright ;D
Spiked Online is a hell of drug for eejits
The only eejit here is you, and everyone on the board knows it.
Great comeback, you've sure showed me with that
Just like your comeback about something ive never heard of. Good one
There are a lot of things you haven't heard of
Great comeback, you've sure showed me with that ;D
Funny that your reasoning for someone not conforming to the double standard fake hysteria brigade is now to quote a random newspaper. The snowflake agenda knows no bounds.
Straws firmly being clutched.
How about the two of ye shut the fcuk up ye pair of gobshites
Quote from: laoislad on December 11, 2020, 06:09:07 PM
How about the two of ye shut the fcuk up ye pair of gobshites
Well said!
Sid has yet to see a thread he doesent like ruining
Quote from: gawa316 on December 11, 2020, 06:11:29 PM
Quote from: laoislad on December 11, 2020, 06:09:07 PM
How about the two of ye shut the fcuk up ye pair of gobshites
Well said!
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 11, 2020, 07:18:31 PM
Sid has yet to see a thread he doesent like ruining
This is a discussion forum
Puzzling as to why yis are on it if yis don't want discussion
Maybe yis might actually try and contribute
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 08:14:33 PM
Quote from: gawa316 on December 11, 2020, 06:11:29 PM
Quote from: laoislad on December 11, 2020, 06:09:07 PM
How about the two of ye shut the fcuk up ye pair of gobshites
Well said!
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 11, 2020, 07:18:31 PM
Sid has yet to see a thread he doesent like ruining
This is a discussion forum
Puzzling as to why yis are on it if yis don't want discussion
Maybe yis might actually try and contribute
And the thread you are posting is the Premier League 20/21, I fail to see what you are 'discussing' has got to do with the this topic...I actually blame Boycey!
lol, I'm sort of blaming myself too ;D
Sadly it's the way the forum is gone. I thought it was a semi interesting topic but it turned into a macho competition between empty vessels
I know, banter piss take and wind up only!!!
Quote from: Boycey on December 11, 2020, 09:42:12 PM
lol, I'm sort of blaming myself too ;D
Sadly it's the way the forum is gone. I thought it was a semi interesting topic but it turned into a macho competition between empty vessels
It should've been either posted in a CL thread or if there wasn't one you post a new one up but then what business would a Utd fan have posting in a CL thread 😜
But do agree with you about the forum taking a turn for the worse.
Anyway nice and quiet in here now...big game today hoping for a draw or Utd win😖
Quote from: Boycey on December 11, 2020, 09:42:12 PM
lol, I'm sort of blaming myself too ;D
Sadly it's the way the forum is gone. I thought it was a semi interesting topic but it turned into a macho competition between empty vessels
Racism is a very serious topic
What we had was one poster effectively dismissing the very idea that there could be such a thing as racism
And I was the only poster who took that bullshit on, head on
I think it says a lot about some posters, especially the whingers here over the last page or so, that they're more worried about a thread going off topic than the fact that a moron was dismissing the idea of racism as "snowflakery"
That may be because they themselves don't care about the topic or because they aren't equipped to debate on it, in some cases a mixture of both
But what's absolutely certain is some posters here have some very skewed priorities
Open a thread for racism in general, or one for racism in football then Sid.
Nobody wants this thread to descend into pontificating, repetitive, hypocritical shitfuckery that you have destroyed it with this past week.
That doesn't say anything about me, or any other contributors to this thread, apart from that multiple pages of focus on a single, narrow topic demands its own thread.
Quote from: thewobbler on December 12, 2020, 06:05:56 PM
Open a thread for racism in general, or one for racism in football then Sid.
Nobody wants this thread to descend into pontificating, repetitive, hypocritical shitfuckery that you have destroyed it with this past week.
That doesn't say anything about me, or any other contributors to this thread, apart from that multiple pages of focus on a single, narrow topic demands its own thread.
The Gaelic football threads has been like this for years with the usual suspects.
Utds home record is rubbish do that's a result!
Liverpool have league won. Just a matter how much they win by. City in transition. Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal have poor managers. Spurs might challenge but usually let you down when pressures comes on.
Quote from: reillycavan on December 12, 2020, 10:05:18 PM
Liverpool have league won. Just a matter how much they win by. City in transition. Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal have poor managers. Spurs might challenge but usually let you down when pressures comes on.
Spurs have Mourinho. Mourinho knows how to win!
Quote from: thewobbler on December 12, 2020, 06:05:56 PM
Open a thread for racism in general, or one for racism in football then Sid.
Nobody wants this thread to descend into pontificating, repetitive, hypocritical shitfuckery that you have destroyed it with this past week.
That doesn't say anything about me, or any other contributors to this thread, apart from that multiple pages of focus on a single, narrow topic demands its own thread.
I didn't bring up the subject of racism in this thread, it was brought up by a poster who believes the concept of racism itself is "snowflakery"
Point out exactly what about my posts were "hypocritical" or "shitfuckery", and
whyQuote exactly where
Repetitive possibly - arguing with somebody who refuses to see reality can get like that
Do that, or get stuffed
Pontificating is merely a pejorative word for views you don't like but which you have no actual argument against
Oh and it does say plenty about you, plenty indeed
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 10:37:10 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 12, 2020, 06:05:56 PM
Open a thread for racism in general, or one for racism in football then Sid.
Nobody wants this thread to descend into pontificating, repetitive, hypocritical shitfuckery that you have destroyed it with this past week.
That doesn't say anything about me, or any other contributors to this thread, apart from that multiple pages of focus on a single, narrow topic demands its own thread.
I didn't bring up the subject of racism in this thread, it was brought up by a poster who believes the concept of racism itself is "snowflakery"
Point out exactly what about my posts were "hypocritical" or "shitfuckery", and why
Quote exactly where
Repetitive possibly - arguing with somebody who refuses to see reality can get like that
Do that, or get stuffed
Pontificating is merely a pejorative word for views you don't like but which you have no actual argument against
Oh and it does say plenty about you, plenty indeed
What does it say about him?
Good to see Super Frank take a breather today.
Pep's City is interesting. It's like he's Mourinhoing them.
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 05:30:56 PM
Quote from: Boycey on December 11, 2020, 09:42:12 PM
lol, I'm sort of blaming myself too ;D
Sadly it's the way the forum is gone. I thought it was a semi interesting topic but it turned into a macho competition between empty vessels
Racism is a very serious topic
What we had was one poster effectively dismissing the very idea that there could be such a thing as racism
And I was the only poster who took that bullshit on, head on
I think it says a lot about some posters, especially the whingers here over the last page or so, that they're more worried about a thread going off topic than the fact that a moron was dismissing the idea of racism as "snowflakery"
That may be because they themselves don't care about the topic or because they aren't equipped to debate on it, in some cases a mixture of both
But what's absolutely certain is some posters here have some very skewed priorities
You didn't take any "bullshit" that you speak of "head on", you or j70 ;D
You did nothing but spout the snowflake narrative of the double standard pitchfork wielding fake hysteria brigade.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Such "debates" are wasted on people like you.
Anything you don't like to hear and it's nothing but dismissing it as being a supporter of Trump and a random online magazine ;D
Childish stuff.
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 10:37:10 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 12, 2020, 06:05:56 PM
Open a thread for racism in general, or one for racism in football then Sid.
Nobody wants this thread to descend into pontificating, repetitive, hypocritical shitfuckery that you have destroyed it with this past week.
That doesn't say anything about me, or any other contributors to this thread, apart from that multiple pages of focus on a single, narrow topic demands its own thread.
I didn't bring up the subject of racism in this thread, it was brought up by a poster who believes the concept of racism itself is "snowflakery"
Point out exactly what about my posts were "hypocritical" or "shitfuckery", and why
Quote exactly where
Repetitive possibly - arguing with somebody who refuses to see reality can get like that
Do that, or get stuffed
Pontificating is merely a pejorative word for views you don't like but which you have no actual argument against
Oh and it does say plenty about you, plenty indeed
And now you start on other posters too ;D
No one said the "concept of racism is "snowflakery".
Now you again attack another poster for the words they use, that sounds familiar. Pontificating and snowflake mustnt be on the double standard's brigade of approved terms.
And he doesn't need to point out where and when you've been hypocritical etc. I've already done that and exposed you for what you are.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 12, 2020, 10:45:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 10:37:10 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 12, 2020, 06:05:56 PM
Open a thread for racism in general, or one for racism in football then Sid.
Nobody wants this thread to descend into pontificating, repetitive, hypocritical shitfuckery that you have destroyed it with this past week.
That doesn't say anything about me, or any other contributors to this thread, apart from that multiple pages of focus on a single, narrow topic demands its own thread.
I didn't bring up the subject of racism in this thread, it was brought up by a poster who believes the concept of racism itself is "snowflakery"
Point out exactly what about my posts were "hypocritical" or "shitfuckery", and why
Quote exactly where
Repetitive possibly - arguing with somebody who refuses to see reality can get like that
Do that, or get stuffed
Pontificating is merely a pejorative word for views you don't like but which you have no actual argument against
Oh and it does say plenty about you, plenty indeed
What does it say about him?
No decent back up to Aguero. Jesus hasn't developed. Sterling is great to score a hat trick against likes of Burnley and Sheffield United. Not consistent against top 6 sides.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 13, 2020, 02:28:54 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 10:37:10 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 12, 2020, 06:05:56 PM
Open a thread for racism in general, or one for racism in football then Sid.
Nobody wants this thread to descend into pontificating, repetitive, hypocritical shitfuckery that you have destroyed it with this past week.
That doesn't say anything about me, or any other contributors to this thread, apart from that multiple pages of focus on a single, narrow topic demands its own thread.
I didn't bring up the subject of racism in this thread, it was brought up by a poster who believes the concept of racism itself is "snowflakery"
Point out exactly what about my posts were "hypocritical" or "shitfuckery", and why
Quote exactly where
Repetitive possibly - arguing with somebody who refuses to see reality can get like that
Do that, or get stuffed
Pontificating is merely a pejorative word for views you don't like but which you have no actual argument against
Oh and it does say plenty about you, plenty indeed
And now you start on other posters too ;D
No one said the "concept of racism is "snowflakery".
Now you again attack another poster for the words they use, that sounds familiar. Pontificating and snowflake mustnt be on the double standard's brigade of approved terms.
And he doesn't need to point out where and when you've been hypocritical etc. I've already done that and exposed you for what you are.
You don't need to say something literally to make very clear what you mean
In all this, you've portrayed yourself as the victim
As incidentally, have certain other posters
To you, it's entirely clear the very idea there could be such a thing as racism is snowflakery
But hey, shout "pontificating" all you like when you have no argument and refuse for three straight pages to respond to any points, because you're unable to deal with them
Straight from the school of Angelo and Seaney
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 10:19:06 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 13, 2020, 02:28:54 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 10:37:10 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 12, 2020, 06:05:56 PM
Open a thread for racism in general, or one for racism in football then Sid.
Nobody wants this thread to descend into pontificating, repetitive, hypocritical shitfuckery that you have destroyed it with this past week.
That doesn't say anything about me, or any other contributors to this thread, apart from that multiple pages of focus on a single, narrow topic demands its own thread.
I didn't bring up the subject of racism in this thread, it was brought up by a poster who believes the concept of racism itself is "snowflakery"
Point out exactly what about my posts were "hypocritical" or "shitfuckery", and why
Quote exactly where
Repetitive possibly - arguing with somebody who refuses to see reality can get like that
Do that, or get stuffed
Pontificating is merely a pejorative word for views you don't like but which you have no actual argument against
Oh and it does say plenty about you, plenty indeed
And now you start on other posters too ;D
No one said the "concept of racism is "snowflakery".
Now you again attack another poster for the words they use, that sounds familiar. Pontificating and snowflake mustnt be on the double standard's brigade of approved terms.
And he doesn't need to point out where and when you've been hypocritical etc. I've already done that and exposed you for what you are.
You don't need to say something literally to make very clear what you mean
In all this, you've portrayed yourself as the victim
As incidentally, have certain other posters
To you, it's entirely clear the very idea there could be such a thing as racism is snowflakery
But hey, shout "pontificating" all you like when you have no argument and refuse for three straight pages to respond to any points, because you're unable to deal with them
Straight from the school of Angelo and Seaney
Haha
So now because you're running out of ideas and losing the run of yourself, and the argument; you resort to now putting words in people's mouth, so that it fits whatever double standard fake hysteria agenda you want it to fit.
Now that's quite ironic. Straight from the school of the pitchfork wielding snowflake brigade.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 13, 2020, 11:34:20 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 10:19:06 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 13, 2020, 02:28:54 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 10:37:10 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 12, 2020, 06:05:56 PM
Open a thread for racism in general, or one for racism in football then Sid.
Nobody wants this thread to descend into pontificating, repetitive, hypocritical shitfuckery that you have destroyed it with this past week.
That doesn't say anything about me, or any other contributors to this thread, apart from that multiple pages of focus on a single, narrow topic demands its own thread.
I didn't bring up the subject of racism in this thread, it was brought up by a poster who believes the concept of racism itself is "snowflakery"
Point out exactly what about my posts were "hypocritical" or "shitfuckery", and why
Quote exactly where
Repetitive possibly - arguing with somebody who refuses to see reality can get like that
Do that, or get stuffed
Pontificating is merely a pejorative word for views you don't like but which you have no actual argument against
Oh and it does say plenty about you, plenty indeed
And now you start on other posters too ;D
No one said the "concept of racism is "snowflakery".
Now you again attack another poster for the words they use, that sounds familiar. Pontificating and snowflake mustnt be on the double standard's brigade of approved terms.
And he doesn't need to point out where and when you've been hypocritical etc. I've already done that and exposed you for what you are.
You don't need to say something literally to make very clear what you mean
In all this, you've portrayed yourself as the victim
As incidentally, have certain other posters
To you, it's entirely clear the very idea there could be such a thing as racism is snowflakery
But hey, shout "pontificating" all you like when you have no argument and refuse for three straight pages to respond to any points, because you're unable to deal with them
Straight from the school of Angelo and Seaney
Haha
So now because you're running out of ideas and losing the run of yourself, and the argument; you resort to now putting words in people's mouth, so that it fits whatever double standard fake hysteria agenda you want it to fit.
Now that's quite ironic. Straight from the school of the pitchfork wielding snowflake brigade.
The modus operandi of people like you is that they should be free to utter their ignorant bigotry without any challenge whatsoever
And when they get challenged, portray themselves as a "victim"
Straight outta Trumpton, straight outta the DUP's playbook
The internet brain rot is strong with you
So anyway, Premier League 2020/21...
Scouse, even though their fans are utterly determined that fixture schedulers and VAR are conspiring to reduce the greatest club side ever to a 1-in-a-row, still have a semi-invincible mental drop on the vast majority of EPL teams, and a target of 88-90 points points beckons.
If so, that will be too rich for anyone else. Spurs too reliant on keeping a front 2 healthy. Chelsea have no idea what their best attacking line up is, and will disrupt the chance of finding a rhythm, in constant pursuit of something better. City are confused, have ceded the semi-invincible mental drop to Liverpool, and desperately miss having a centre forward: they won't break 80 points. Man Utd's squad imbalance is laughable, and just not surmountable with mediocre manager.
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on December 13, 2020, 12:35:32 PM
So anyway, Premier League 2020/21...
Here is a detailed report on all the excitement of yesterday evening's Manchester derby:
Quote from: thewobbler on December 13, 2020, 12:44:54 PM
Scouse, even though their fans are utterly determined that fixture schedulers and VAR are conspiring to reduce the greatest club side ever to a 1-in-a-row, still have a semi-invincible mental drop on the vast majority of EPL teams, and a target of 88-90 points points beckons.
If so, that will be too rich for anyone else. Spurs too reliant on keeping a front 2 healthy. Chelsea have no idea what their best attacking line up is, and will disrupt the chance of finding a rhythm, in constant pursuit of something better. City are confused, have ceded the semi-invincible mental drop to Liverpool, and desperately miss having a centre forward: they won't break 80 points. Man Utd's squad imbalance is laughable, and just not surmountable with mediocre manager.
Liverpool are not the only team complaining about the fixtures.
And VAR has gone against them this year. Not surprising fans talk about it when other fans made such a fuss last season about LiVARpool.
I still fear City though. Confused or not, they're still only a few points back.
Quote from: J70 on December 13, 2020, 12:51:58 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 13, 2020, 12:44:54 PM
Scouse, even though their fans are utterly determined that fixture schedulers and VAR are conspiring to reduce the greatest club side ever to a 1-in-a-row, still have a semi-invincible mental drop on the vast majority of EPL teams, and a target of 88-90 points points beckons.
If so, that will be too rich for anyone else. Spurs too reliant on keeping a front 2 healthy. Chelsea have no idea what their best attacking line up is, and will disrupt the chance of finding a rhythm, in constant pursuit of something better. City are confused, have ceded the semi-invincible mental drop to Liverpool, and desperately miss having a centre forward: they won't break 80 points. Man Utd's squad imbalance is laughable, and just not surmountable with mediocre manager.
Liverpool are not the only team complaining about the fixtures.
And VAR has gone against them this year. Not surprising fans talk about it when other fans made such a fuss last season about LiVARpool.
I still fear City though. Confused or not, they're still only a few points back.
Oisin McConville said this week that Dublin play Gaelic football in a way which almost doesn't take opponents into account, like a snooker player playing the table or a darts player playing the board
At Manchester City's best, they were a bit like that, but they're no longer like that
Guardiola doesn't really like personality in his players and that's grand if you're a finely tuned machine, but City aren't like that anymore
When matches turn into dogfights, as this season is, you need personality and strong characters and the team has been steadily drained of that
It's also why Guardiola's teams have tended to struggle a lot when faced with serious challenges in big European ties - there's no scope for players to think on their feet, only to stick to the process in automaton like fashion
That's grand if everybody believes 100% in the process, but I don't think City's players really believe 100% in it any more
Vincent Kompany ripped up the plan when he scored against Leicester, he took it upon himself to have a go from 25-30 yards
But City have nobody like him now
Kompany's loss to that team was huge
Leroy Sane could rip up a plan and do something different, but he's gone too
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 11:58:48 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 13, 2020, 11:34:20 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 10:19:06 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 13, 2020, 02:28:54 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 10:37:10 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 12, 2020, 06:05:56 PM
Open a thread for racism in general, or one for racism in football then Sid.
Nobody wants this thread to descend into pontificating, repetitive, hypocritical shitfuckery that you have destroyed it with this past week.
That doesn't say anything about me, or any other contributors to this thread, apart from that multiple pages of focus on a single, narrow topic demands its own thread.
I didn't bring up the subject of racism in this thread, it was brought up by a poster who believes the concept of racism itself is "snowflakery"
Point out exactly what about my posts were "hypocritical" or "shitfuckery", and why
Quote exactly where
Repetitive possibly - arguing with somebody who refuses to see reality can get like that
Do that, or get stuffed
Pontificating is merely a pejorative word for views you don't like but which you have no actual argument against
Oh and it does say plenty about you, plenty indeed
And now you start on other posters too ;D
No one said the "concept of racism is "snowflakery".
Now you again attack another poster for the words they use, that sounds familiar. Pontificating and snowflake mustnt be on the double standard's brigade of approved terms.
And he doesn't need to point out where and when you've been hypocritical etc. I've already done that and exposed you for what you are.
You don't need to say something literally to make very clear what you mean
In all this, you've portrayed yourself as the victim
As incidentally, have certain other posters
To you, it's entirely clear the very idea there could be such a thing as racism is snowflakery
But hey, shout "pontificating" all you like when you have no argument and refuse for three straight pages to respond to any points, because you're unable to deal with them
Straight from the school of Angelo and Seaney
Haha
So now because you're running out of ideas and losing the run of yourself, and the argument; you resort to now putting words in people's mouth, so that it fits whatever double standard fake hysteria agenda you want it to fit.
Now that's quite ironic. Straight from the school of the pitchfork wielding snowflake brigade.
The modus operandi of people like you is that they should be free to utter their ignorant bigotry without any challenge whatsoever
And when they get challenged, portray themselves as a "victim"
Straight outta Trumpton, straight outta the DUP's playbook
The internet brain rot is strong with you
You didn't challenge though, therefore i'm no "victim".
All you did was resorted to making your own assumptions and putting words in people's mouth about what was said so that it fit whatever is the snowflake-approved agenda.
And then when you get called out on it, you clutch at straws and cry they're the victim because you don't like it when someone doesn't conform to the pitchfork-wielding double standard brigade's hijacked notion of new societal behaviour; as well as spewing out sound bites like "Trump", "DUP" and "Right-wing" because you run out of ideas.
It's like a cult or a new radical religion. It's just as predictable as it is embarrassing.
Sheffield United sinking fast against Southampton. 2-0 down, a new manager could be on the way for United.
Quote from: J70 on December 13, 2020, 12:51:58 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 13, 2020, 12:44:54 PM
Scouse, even though their fans are utterly determined that fixture schedulers and VAR are conspiring to reduce the greatest club side ever to a 1-in-a-row, still have a semi-invincible mental drop on the vast majority of EPL teams, and a target of 88-90 points points beckons.
If so, that will be too rich for anyone else. Spurs too reliant on keeping a front 2 healthy. Chelsea have no idea what their best attacking line up is, and will disrupt the chance of finding a rhythm, in constant pursuit of something better. City are confused, have ceded the semi-invincible mental drop to Liverpool, and desperately miss having a centre forward: they won't break 80 points. Man Utd's squad imbalance is laughable, and just not surmountable with mediocre manager.
Liverpool are not the only team complaining about the fixtures.
And VAR has gone against them this year. Not surprising fans talk about it when other fans made such a fuss last season about LiVARpool.
I still fear City though. Confused or not, they're still only a few points back.
It's the incessant nature of Scouse misgivings that's hard to listen to.
Over the past couple of seasons Liverpool agave reached a performance level that makes it difficult for even the best teams to match them.
Problem is that a volume of Scouse fans (somewhat fuelled by Klopp) now refuse to accept that any team can match their performance levels, unless it's through the influence of outside parties.
We all want to see our teams win. But Twitter is a truly horrible place for Scouse analysing every goal scored against them to conspiracy theory levels.
Didn't see match of the day, anyone dare to criticise Lampard?
Would have thought he's under real pressure given Roman's track record, he has a squad stacked with more attacking talent then City & Liverpool.
Quote from: thewobbler on December 13, 2020, 01:26:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 13, 2020, 12:51:58 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 13, 2020, 12:44:54 PM
Scouse, even though their fans are utterly determined that fixture schedulers and VAR are conspiring to reduce the greatest club side ever to a 1-in-a-row, still have a semi-invincible mental drop on the vast majority of EPL teams, and a target of 88-90 points points beckons.
If so, that will be too rich for anyone else. Spurs too reliant on keeping a front 2 healthy. Chelsea have no idea what their best attacking line up is, and will disrupt the chance of finding a rhythm, in constant pursuit of something better. City are confused, have ceded the semi-invincible mental drop to Liverpool, and desperately miss having a centre forward: they won't break 80 points. Man Utd's squad imbalance is laughable, and just not surmountable with mediocre manager.
Liverpool are not the only team complaining about the fixtures.
And VAR has gone against them this year. Not surprising fans talk about it when other fans made such a fuss last season about LiVARpool.
I still fear City though. Confused or not, they're still only a few points back.
It's the incessant nature of Scouse misgivings that's hard to listen to.
Over the past couple of seasons Liverpool agave reached a performance level that makes it difficult for even the best teams to match them.
Problem is that a volume of Scouse fans (somewhat fuelled by Klopp) now refuse to accept that any team can match their performance levels, unless it's through the influence of outside parties.
We all want to see our teams win. But Twitter is a truly horrible place for Scouse analysing every goal scored against them to conspiracy theory levels.
Twitter is a cesspool for everything.
I wouldn't judge the average fan based on Twitter rants.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 13, 2020, 01:18:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 11:58:48 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 13, 2020, 11:34:20 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 10:19:06 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 13, 2020, 02:28:54 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 10:37:10 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 12, 2020, 06:05:56 PM
Open a thread for racism in general, or one for racism in football then Sid.
Nobody wants this thread to descend into pontificating, repetitive, hypocritical shitfuckery that you have destroyed it with this past week.
That doesn't say anything about me, or any other contributors to this thread, apart from that multiple pages of focus on a single, narrow topic demands its own thread.
I didn't bring up the subject of racism in this thread, it was brought up by a poster who believes the concept of racism itself is "snowflakery"
Point out exactly what about my posts were "hypocritical" or "shitfuckery", and why
Quote exactly where
Repetitive possibly - arguing with somebody who refuses to see reality can get like that
Do that, or get stuffed
Pontificating is merely a pejorative word for views you don't like but which you have no actual argument against
Oh and it does say plenty about you, plenty indeed
And now you start on other posters too ;D
No one said the "concept of racism is "snowflakery".
Now you again attack another poster for the words they use, that sounds familiar. Pontificating and snowflake mustnt be on the double standard's brigade of approved terms.
And he doesn't need to point out where and when you've been hypocritical etc. I've already done that and exposed you for what you are.
You don't need to say something literally to make very clear what you mean
In all this, you've portrayed yourself as the victim
As incidentally, have certain other posters
To you, it's entirely clear the very idea there could be such a thing as racism is snowflakery
But hey, shout "pontificating" all you like when you have no argument and refuse for three straight pages to respond to any points, because you're unable to deal with them
Straight from the school of Angelo and Seaney
Haha
So now because you're running out of ideas and losing the run of yourself, and the argument; you resort to now putting words in people's mouth, so that it fits whatever double standard fake hysteria agenda you want it to fit.
Now that's quite ironic. Straight from the school of the pitchfork wielding snowflake brigade.
The modus operandi of people like you is that they should be free to utter their ignorant bigotry without any challenge whatsoever
And when they get challenged, portray themselves as a "victim"
Straight outta Trumpton, straight outta the DUP's playbook
The internet brain rot is strong with you
You didn't challenge though, therefore i'm no "victim".
All you did was resorted to making your own assumptions and putting words in people's mouth about what was said so that it fit whatever is the snowflake-approved agenda.
And then when you get called out on it, you clutch at straws and cry they're the victim because you don't like it when someone doesn't conform to the pitchfork-wielding double standard brigade's hijacked notion of new societal behaviour; as well as spewing out sound bites like "Trump", "DUP" and "Right-wing" because you run out of ideas.
It's like a cult or a new radical religion. It's just as predictable as it is embarrassing.
More cliched bullshit
Imagine living your life entirely through the medium of cliches straight out of The Sun
Quote from: thewobbler on December 13, 2020, 01:26:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 13, 2020, 12:51:58 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 13, 2020, 12:44:54 PM
Scouse, even though their fans are utterly determined that fixture schedulers and VAR are conspiring to reduce the greatest club side ever to a 1-in-a-row, still have a semi-invincible mental drop on the vast majority of EPL teams, and a target of 88-90 points points beckons.
If so, that will be too rich for anyone else. Spurs too reliant on keeping a front 2 healthy. Chelsea have no idea what their best attacking line up is, and will disrupt the chance of finding a rhythm, in constant pursuit of something better. City are confused, have ceded the semi-invincible mental drop to Liverpool, and desperately miss having a centre forward: they won't break 80 points. Man Utd's squad imbalance is laughable, and just not surmountable with mediocre manager.
Liverpool are not the only team complaining about the fixtures.
And VAR has gone against them this year. Not surprising fans talk about it when other fans made such a fuss last season about LiVARpool.
I still fear City though. Confused or not, they're still only a few points back.
It's the incessant nature of Scouse misgivings that's hard to listen to.
Over the past couple of seasons Liverpool agave reached a performance level that makes it difficult for even the best teams to match them.
Problem is that a volume of Scouse fans (somewhat fuelled by Klopp) now refuse to accept that any team can match their performance levels, unless it's through the influence of outside parties.
We all want to see our teams win. But Twitter is a truly horrible place for Scouse analysing every goal scored against them to conspiracy theory levels.
Of all the things in the world to get annoyed by, Wobbler chooses fans of a particular football team on Twitter
You'd almost have to admire the level of effort he goes to in order to be outraged about something so unimportant
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 02:43:20 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 13, 2020, 01:18:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 11:58:48 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 13, 2020, 11:34:20 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 10:19:06 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 13, 2020, 02:28:54 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 10:37:10 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 12, 2020, 06:05:56 PM
Open a thread for racism in general, or one for racism in football then Sid.
Nobody wants this thread to descend into pontificating, repetitive, hypocritical shitfuckery that you have destroyed it with this past week.
That doesn't say anything about me, or any other contributors to this thread, apart from that multiple pages of focus on a single, narrow topic demands its own thread.
I didn't bring up the subject of racism in this thread, it was brought up by a poster who believes the concept of racism itself is "snowflakery"
Point out exactly what about my posts were "hypocritical" or "shitfuckery", and why
Quote exactly where
Repetitive possibly - arguing with somebody who refuses to see reality can get like that
Do that, or get stuffed
Pontificating is merely a pejorative word for views you don't like but which you have no actual argument against
Oh and it does say plenty about you, plenty indeed
And now you start on other posters too ;D
No one said the "concept of racism is "snowflakery".
Now you again attack another poster for the words they use, that sounds familiar. Pontificating and snowflake mustnt be on the double standard's brigade of approved terms.
And he doesn't need to point out where and when you've been hypocritical etc. I've already done that and exposed you for what you are.
You don't need to say something literally to make very clear what you mean
In all this, you've portrayed yourself as the victim
As incidentally, have certain other posters
To you, it's entirely clear the very idea there could be such a thing as racism is snowflakery
But hey, shout "pontificating" all you like when you have no argument and refuse for three straight pages to respond to any points, because you're unable to deal with them
Straight from the school of Angelo and Seaney
Haha
So now because you're running out of ideas and losing the run of yourself, and the argument; you resort to now putting words in people's mouth, so that it fits whatever double standard fake hysteria agenda you want it to fit.
Now that's quite ironic. Straight from the school of the pitchfork wielding snowflake brigade.
The modus operandi of people like you is that they should be free to utter their ignorant bigotry without any challenge whatsoever
And when they get challenged, portray themselves as a "victim"
Straight outta Trumpton, straight outta the DUP's playbook
The internet brain rot is strong with you
You didn't challenge though, therefore i'm no "victim".
All you did was resorted to making your own assumptions and putting words in people's mouth about what was said so that it fit whatever is the snowflake-approved agenda.
And then when you get called out on it, you clutch at straws and cry they're the victim because you don't like it when someone doesn't conform to the pitchfork-wielding double standard brigade's hijacked notion of new societal behaviour; as well as spewing out sound bites like "Trump", "DUP" and "Right-wing" because you run out of ideas.
It's like a cult or a new radical religion. It's just as predictable as it is embarrassing.
More cliched bullshit
Imagine living your life entirely through the medium of cliches straight out of The Sun
Deflection, as expected.
The mantra of this snowflake fake-hysteria cult when they have been found out is to fend off any criticism and deem it as "clichéd bullshit".
Oh dear, it gets even more embarrassing.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 13, 2020, 02:53:55 PM
Deflection, as expected.
The mantra of this snowflake fake-hysteria cult when they have been found out is to fend off any criticism and deem it as "clichéd bullshit".
Oh dear, it gets even more embarrassing.
You live your life entirely through the cliched mantra of Trumpism, the Tory party and The Sun, and think
other people are embarrassing? ;D
It's like talking to a five year old
And you'll keep going too
Lads like you would argue this year was 2023 until it actually was
Outraged Sid?
Just a gentle reminder that there are more than two colours on my spectrum.
The human race wouldn't have been able to evolve had it been limited to your range of emotions. Just remember that.
Quote from: thewobbler on December 13, 2020, 03:02:34 PM
Outraged Sid?
Just a gentle reminder that there are more than two colours on my spectrum.
The human race wouldn't have been able to evolve had it been limited to your range of emotions. Just remember that.
You should start demonstrating those colours, then, because all we get from you on this forum is a very dull shade of grey, a very dull, curmudgeonly, reactionary shade of grey indeed
Except when you propose yourself as an unimpeachable expert on the entire personalities of people you've never met
I guess spending too much time on Twitter getting outraged by Liverpool fans can do strange things to people
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 03:01:35 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 13, 2020, 02:53:55 PM
Deflection, as expected.
The mantra of this snowflake fake-hysteria cult when they have been found out is to fend off any criticism and deem it as "clichéd bullshit".
Oh dear, it gets even more embarrassing.
You live your life entirely through the cliched mantra of Trumpism, the Tory party and The Sun, and think other people are embarrassing? ;D
It's like talking to a five year old
And you'll keep going too
Lads like you would argue this year was 2023 until it actually was
There you go again. You keep proving my point.
Spewing out pre-rehearsed sound bites that have nothing to do with the topic at hand, people like you will not stop until the entire population is at the behest of the snowflake-approved agenda. It is similar to world war propaganda.
I think you and the rest of yous must dream about Trump every night, such is your worrying obsession with him.
The repetition of the nonsense that the double standard fake hysteria brigade spews upon others, is actually similar to Trump, which makes it even better such is the irony involved.
You couldn't make it up ;D
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 13, 2020, 03:26:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 03:01:35 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 13, 2020, 02:53:55 PM
Deflection, as expected.
The mantra of this snowflake fake-hysteria cult when they have been found out is to fend off any criticism and deem it as "clichéd bullshit".
Oh dear, it gets even more embarrassing.
You live your life entirely through the cliched mantra of Trumpism, the Tory party and The Sun, and think other people are embarrassing? ;D
It's like talking to a five year old
And you'll keep going too
Lads like you would argue this year was 2023 until it actually was
There you go again. You keep proving my point.
Spewing out pre-rehearsed sound bites that have nothing to do with the topic at hand, people like you will not stop until the entire population is at the behest of the snowflake-approved agenda. It is similar to world war propaganda.
I think you and the rest of yous must dream about Trump every night, such is your worrying obsession with him.
The repetition of the nonsense that the double standard fake hysteria brigade spews upon others, is actually similar to Trump, which makes it even better such is the irony involved.
You couldn't make it up ;D
zzzzzzzzzzzzz
So anyway, Premier League 2020/21.....
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 03:47:38 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 13, 2020, 03:26:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 03:01:35 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on December 13, 2020, 02:53:55 PM
Deflection, as expected.
The mantra of this snowflake fake-hysteria cult when they have been found out is to fend off any criticism and deem it as "clichéd bullshit".
Oh dear, it gets even more embarrassing.
You live your life entirely through the cliched mantra of Trumpism, the Tory party and The Sun, and think other people are embarrassing? ;D
It's like talking to a five year old
And you'll keep going too
Lads like you would argue this year was 2023 until it actually was
There you go again. You keep proving my point.
Spewing out pre-rehearsed sound bites that have nothing to do with the topic at hand, people like you will not stop until the entire population is at the behest of the snowflake-approved agenda. It is similar to world war propaganda.
I think you and the rest of yous must dream about Trump every night, such is your worrying obsession with him.
The repetition of the nonsense that the double standard fake hysteria brigade spews upon others, is actually similar to Trump, which makes it even better such is the irony involved.
You couldn't make it up ;D
zzzzzzzzzzzzz
Good boy, go back to sleep
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 12, 2020, 10:11:48 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on December 12, 2020, 10:05:18 PM
Liverpool have league won. Just a matter how much they win by. City in transition. Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal have poor managers. Spurs might challenge but usually let you down when pressures comes on.
Spurs have Mourinho. Mourinho knows how to win!
Typical spurs. Pool to go back on top with another handy win. Fulham are poor.
Quote from: reillycavan on December 13, 2020, 04:15:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 12, 2020, 10:11:48 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on December 12, 2020, 10:05:18 PM
Liverpool have league won. Just a matter how much they win by. City in transition. Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal have poor managers. Spurs might challenge but usually let you down when pressures comes on.
Spurs have Mourinho. Mourinho knows how to win!
Typical spurs. Pool to go back on top with another handy win. Fulham are poor.
Typical Jose nowadays, in control of match and decides to sit on a lead instead of closing the game out. Liverpool should be 5 points clear of Tottenham Wednesday evening when they beat them.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 13, 2020, 04:34:39 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on December 13, 2020, 04:15:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 12, 2020, 10:11:48 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on December 12, 2020, 10:05:18 PM
Liverpool have league won. Just a matter how much they win by. City in transition. Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal have poor managers. Spurs might challenge but usually let you down when pressures comes on.
Spurs have Mourinho. Mourinho knows how to win
Typical spurs. Pool to go back on top with another handy win. Fulham are poor.
Typical Jose nowadays, in control of match and decides to sit on a lead instead of closing the game out. Liverpool should be 5 points clear of Tottenham Wednesday evening when they beat them.
Josie will park the bus Wednesday. Liverpool to dominate possession and win 2/3 nil against spurs
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 13, 2020, 04:34:39 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on December 13, 2020, 04:15:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 12, 2020, 10:11:48 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on December 12, 2020, 10:05:18 PM
Liverpool have league won. Just a matter how much they win by. City in transition. Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal have poor managers. Spurs might challenge but usually let you down when pressures comes on.
Spurs have Mourinho. Mourinho knows how to win!
Typical spurs. Pool to go back on top with another handy win. Fulham are poor.
Typical Jose nowadays, in control of match and decides to sit on a lead instead of closing the game out. Liverpool should be 5 points clear of Tottenham Wednesday evening when they beat them.
That's really not how it happened. Spurs were positive for rest of first half then for the opening part of second half. At around 55 mins Palace really upped a gear for 20 mins, penned Spurs in, harried them anytime they gave it away, and deserved a goal.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 13, 2020, 04:34:39 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on December 13, 2020, 04:15:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 12, 2020, 10:11:48 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on December 12, 2020, 10:05:18 PM
Liverpool have league won. Just a matter how much they win by. City in transition. Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal have poor managers. Spurs might challenge but usually let you down when pressures comes on.
Spurs have Mourinho. Mourinho knows how to win!
Typical spurs. Pool to go back on top with another handy win. Fulham are poor.
Typical Jose nowadays, in control of match and decides to sit on a lead instead of closing the game out. Liverpool should be 5 points clear of Tottenham Wednesday evening when they beat them.
Just the five points?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 13, 2020, 06:39:23 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 13, 2020, 04:34:39 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on December 13, 2020, 04:15:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 12, 2020, 10:11:48 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on December 12, 2020, 10:05:18 PM
Liverpool have league won. Just a matter how much they win by. City in transition. Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal have poor managers. Spurs might challenge but usually let you down when pressures comes on.
Spurs have Mourinho. Mourinho knows how to win!
Typical spurs. Pool to go back on top with another handy win. Fulham are poor.
Typical Jose nowadays, in control of match and decides to sit on a lead instead of closing the game out. Liverpool should be 5 points clear of Tottenham Wednesday evening when they beat them.
Just the five points?
Just the 3 points it should be now. A lucky point for Liverpool tonight.
I think there's a very good chance this season is going to produce a surprise title winner
But who it could be is anybody's guess
Even 80 points could win this title
General reaction from Liverpool supporters on Twitter is that they were lucky to even get the point today
You can't call it fairer than that
I trust everybody is thoroughly enjoying the unpredictable nature of the race and the general competitiveness
This is the sort of season people wanted
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 07:17:30 PM
I think there's a very good chance this season is going to produce a surprise title winner
But who it could be is anybody's guess
Even 80 points could win this title
General reaction from Liverpool supporters on Twitter is that they were lucky to even get the point today
You can't call it fairer than that
I trust everybody is thoroughly enjoying the unpredictable nature of the race and the general competitiveness
This is the sort of season people wanted
Far better than a Man CITY or Liverpool walking it
Arsenal beaten at home by Burnley
Jaysus, the Arsenal disease has returned with a vengeance like Covid and Kieran Tierney falling over the ball a few weeks back has become a metaphor not just for their season but what the club as a whole has turned into
There was a very funny quote on the Second Captains podcast this week about Arsenal, they sign and contract players in the way that African countries buy weapons from their traditional colonial oppressor - Aubameyang has turned into the football equivalent of Mobutu's rocket
I thought Arteta had them humming at the end of last season but defeats like that are difficult to come back from
Leicester had another good win this evening, they're right up there again now, could lightning be about to strike twice
Interesting that the bookies still have Man City favourites to win the league.
Taken from Boyles as being about the average:
Man City 13/8
Liverpool 2/1
Spurs 6/1
Chelsea 13/2
Man Utd 18/1
Leicester 28/1
City would still be favourites as they have easily the best squad.
Has to be said now that they have been under performing under Pep for a while now.
Quote from: NAG1 on December 14, 2020, 02:07:18 PM
City would still be favourites as they have easily the best squad.
Has to be said now that they have been under performing under Pep for a while now.
Do they have the best squad? They are a big reliant on aguero and by no means solid at the back.
They do have a decent run of fixtures in the new weeks ahead anyway. Possibility to get lots of points on the board.
Quote from: thebigfella on December 14, 2020, 02:17:12 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on December 14, 2020, 02:07:18 PM
City would still be favourites as they have easily the best squad.
Has to be said now that they have been under performing under Pep for a while now.
Do they have the best squad? They are a big reliant on aguero and by no means solid at the back.
You could easily make a case for Chelsea having the best squad from an attacking point of view whilst City have the most strength in depth in defensive areas after spending £370m on 7 defenders in recent years.
Lampard continues to get a free ride in the media.
City wont win it without Aguero.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 14, 2020, 02:25:06 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 14, 2020, 02:17:12 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on December 14, 2020, 02:07:18 PM
City would still be favourites as they have easily the best squad.
Has to be said now that they have been under performing under Pep for a while now.
Do they have the best squad? They are a big reliant on aguero and by no means solid at the back.
You could easily make a case for Chelsea having the best squad from an attacking point of view whilst City have the most strength in depth in defensive areas after spending £370m on 7 defenders in recent years.
Lampard continues to get a free ride in the media.
The media had him sacked there sure around September time. I read Chelsea only lost one in eighteen on Sat past. That's not bad going.
Quote from: thebigfella on December 14, 2020, 02:17:12 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on December 14, 2020, 02:07:18 PM
City would still be favourites as they have easily the best squad.
Has to be said now that they have been under performing under Pep for a while now.
Do they have the best squad? They are a big reliant on aguero and by no means solid at the back.
They've only conceded 3 goals in their last 11 games seems like Pep's putting more of a focus on defending this season!
Looks like it'll be a lot more interesting this year with nobody running away with it for a change.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 14, 2020, 02:40:36 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 14, 2020, 02:25:06 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 14, 2020, 02:17:12 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on December 14, 2020, 02:07:18 PM
City would still be favourites as they have easily the best squad.
Has to be said now that they have been under performing under Pep for a while now.
Do they have the best squad? They are a big reliant on aguero and by no means solid at the back.
You could easily make a case for Chelsea having the best squad from an attacking point of view whilst City have the most strength in depth in defensive areas after spending £370m on 7 defenders in recent years.
Lampard continues to get a free ride in the media.
The media had him sacked there sure around September time. I read Chelsea only lost one in eighteen on Sat past. That's not bad going.
I've never seen anyone other then Roy Keane question him?
There 2 points ahead of a United who've a game in hand and with a manager who's been slaughtered in the media. Chelsea have a lot stronger squad too.
I think that's because everyone knows Solskjær is clearly going to get sacked at some point. He's been a manager much longer than Lampard who is only in his 3rd season in management and still very much learning the trade. Lampard time for that will come.
Solskjær is just a better story at the moment, he keeps going to the edge of the cliff and somehow clings on.
Quote from: screenexile on December 14, 2020, 02:48:54 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 14, 2020, 02:17:12 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on December 14, 2020, 02:07:18 PM
City would still be favourites as they have easily the best squad.
Has to be said now that they have been under performing under Pep for a while now.
Do they have the best squad? They are a big reliant on aguero and by no means solid at the back.
They've only conceded 3 goals in their last 11 games seems like Pep's putting more of a focus on defending this season!
Looks like it'll be a lot more interesting this year with nobody running away with it for a change.
Its very odd from Pep, goes against his principles too. They stopped the aggressive pressing like all Peps teams have done in the past, by City's standards in recent years that was a poor front 6 they out there on Saturday.
Quote from: screenexile on December 14, 2020, 02:48:54 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 14, 2020, 02:17:12 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on December 14, 2020, 02:07:18 PM
City would still be favourites as they have easily the best squad.
Has to be said now that they have been under performing under Pep for a while now.
Do they have the best squad? They are a big reliant on aguero and by no means solid at the back.
They've only conceded 3 goals in their last 11 games seems like Pep's putting more of a focus on defending this season!
Looks like it'll be a lot more interesting this year with nobody running away with it for a change.
Pep has gone into a defensive shell since conceding 5 goals at home to Leicester. I don't see them mounting a title challenge playing like that as they will draw as many matches as they will win. It's a style of play that may suit the knock out stages of the Champions league.
No one else is pulling away though. Liverpool are fucked with injuries, and are thus likely going to continue their patchy form due to the lower quality of the back-ups and the lack of rest for first choice players (and what a difference someone like Thiago might have made yesterday!). Spurs are going to find it hard to maintain their position, especially if either Son or Kane get injured. Leicester are not exactly overflowing with quality back-ups for the main men. If City win their extra game, they're only a couple of points back, without hitting anything close to their best form on a consistent basis.
Quote from: J70 on December 14, 2020, 06:37:25 PM
No one else is pulling away though. Liverpool are fucked with injuries, and are thus likely going to continue their patchy form due to the lower quality of the back-ups and the lack of rest for first choice players (and what a difference someone like Thiago might have made yesterday!). Spurs are going to find it hard to maintain their position, especially if either Son or Kane get injured. Leicester are not exactly overflowing with quality back-ups for the main men. If City win their extra game, they're only a couple of points back, without hitting anything close to their best form on a consistent basis.
They've actually had a pretty hard time of it with injuries. Ndidi, Pereira, Soyuncu, Castagne, Maddison are all first choice players who have started probably less than 20 games combined, out of 60.
But yeah, up front, if they lost Vardy, they would be toothless.
Back to back defeats for Frank Lampards Chelsea.
They were poor though only saw the last 20 or so.
Read somewhere they haven't beaten a team in the top 10 yet
Great break and finish by Neto, although Zouma might have got a little tighter on him. He's fast though.
75 points will win the league at this rate!
Dara O'Shea was superb in a well drilled West Brom defence tonight.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 15, 2020, 10:00:04 PM
Dara O'Shea was superb in a well drilled West Brom defence tonight.
Sam Johnstone was brillant as well in nets, 2 great saves in injury time.
Pep is finished
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 15, 2020, 09:57:04 PM
75 points will win the league at this rate!
Yep.
No call for gloating on the part of any rival fans tonight. All of the top teams are dropping points all over the place.
Quote from: SHEEDY on December 15, 2020, 10:01:39 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 15, 2020, 10:00:04 PM
Dara O'Shea was superb in a well drilled West Brom defence tonight.
Sam Johnstone was brillant as well in nets, 2 great saves in injury time.
Two good saves late on alright.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 15, 2020, 10:15:46 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on December 15, 2020, 10:01:39 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 15, 2020, 10:00:04 PM
Dara O'Shea was superb in a well drilled West Brom defence tonight.
Sam Johnstone was brillant as well in nets, 2 great saves in injury time.
Two good saves late on alright.
Only saw the second half, but I don't think I've seen as dominant a half of possession as City v WBA. Official stats was 77% for the game, it had to be well over 80% City possession for the second half. Yet they hardly created a chance until injury time, when Gundongan and Sterling both missed sitters.
West Brom defended bravely, especially O'Shea, but they were chronically bad the few times they had the ball.
Chelsea have won 6 matches in the league so far against the teams placed 12th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 17th & 20th in the league but Frank continues to be immune from criticism.
Not from Sid ;D
I don't mind him but I think that job is above him at present. Whether that changes over time I don't know but Chelsea should be way better than what they are.
Teams like Everton and Wolves are not undeserving winners against Chelsea. A few years ago results like last night would just have been a blip whereas now they're the norm.
It's not like they're not spending money either.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 16, 2020, 08:45:47 AM
Chelsea have won 6 matches in the league so far against the teams placed 12th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 17th & 20th in the league but Frank continues to be immune from criticism.
You're obsessed with Frank.
Like Ole & Arteta he's done nothing to warrant a chance of the job he's in, expectation for Lampard should be greater given the extent he's backed and the squad he inherited.
Watched the 2nd half of City last night, miles off where they were 2 years ago. I don't think all their issues will be solved by buying a top class centre forward either, they've got more issues then that.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 16, 2020, 11:03:51 AM
Like Ole & Arteta he's done nothing to warrant a chance of the job he's in, expectation for Lampard should be greater given the extent he's backed and the squad he inherited.
Watched the 2nd half of City last night, miles off where they were 2 years ago. I don't think all their issues will be solved by buying a top class centre forward either, they've got more issues then that.
It would go a long way though. With Aguero hardly ever playing they are left with Jesus. He's a very good player - but not sure he could be considered in the top 10 forwards in the league. And when you compare against the top clubs in Europe, and who is leading the line for them, he's not at the same level.
Bilic gone and big Sam to come in apparently.
Quote from: shark on December 16, 2020, 12:21:09 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 16, 2020, 11:03:51 AM
Like Ole & Arteta he's done nothing to warrant a chance of the job he's in, expectation for Lampard should be greater given the extent he's backed and the squad he inherited.
Watched the 2nd half of City last night, miles off where they were 2 years ago. I don't think all their issues will be solved by buying a top class centre forward either, they've got more issues then that.
It would go a long way though. With Aguero hardly ever playing they are left with Jesus. He's a very good player - but not sure he could be considered in the top 10 forwards in the league. And when you compare against the top clubs in Europe, and who is leading the line for them, he's not at the same level.
It will help but not sure to what extent. Anytime I've seen them they've struggled to create decent chances and when they had its not even been Jesus who's missed them, Sterling has always missed easy chances and will continue to do so. City no longer press like they used too and he's changed the dynamic in midfield which I assume it to protect his defence. Looks like he doesn't trust Foden to play centrally with De Bruyne.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 16, 2020, 12:55:17 PM
Quote from: shark on December 16, 2020, 12:21:09 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 16, 2020, 11:03:51 AM
Like Ole & Arteta he's done nothing to warrant a chance of the job he's in, expectation for Lampard should be greater given the extent he's backed and the squad he inherited.
Watched the 2nd half of City last night, miles off where they were 2 years ago. I don't think all their issues will be solved by buying a top class centre forward either, they've got more issues then that.
It would go a long way though. With Aguero hardly ever playing they are left with Jesus. He's a very good player - but not sure he could be considered in the top 10 forwards in the league. And when you compare against the top clubs in Europe, and who is leading the line for them, he's not at the same level.
It will help but not sure to what extent. Anytime I've seen them they've struggled to create decent chances and when they had its not even been Jesus who's missed them, Sterling has always missed easy chances and will continue to do so. City no longer press like they used too and he's changed the dynamic in midfield which I assume it to protect his defence. Looks like he doesn't trust Foden to play centrally with De Bruyne.
Having supported City for a long time something just seems off this year.
Last year Liverpool were exceptional - no excuses.
This year it just all seems a bit stale and devoid of ideas - the exciting football is gone or shall I say the penetration is gone when we go at teams.
We still control the possession stats but we are really missing a striker who can put away a half chance or make something from nothing.
Sterlings game has improved under Pep but he seems to have reached a level. Jesus is good, not great.
Before last nights game we were favourites for the league - that had to be on reputation alone as our season so far did not warrant it.
The next few games are all winnnable but we are missing Aguero like never before
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 16, 2020, 12:23:30 PM
Bilic gone and big Sam to come in apparently.
Wouldn't put it past him to pull it off again. Definitely doable in a year like this. His type of style its tailor made for the frantic nature of this season. Fairly basic to implement, even from day one.
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 16, 2020, 12:23:30 PM
Bilic gone and big Sam to come in apparently.
Arsenal missing out
West Brom after a good result away at City. The decision probaly made before then, but no patience with the some clubs. Wilder being backed at Sheffield United despite losing 11 in 12
Allardyce said he was finished being a survival manager, but still taking the jobs.
Quote from: Taylor on December 16, 2020, 01:05:20 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 16, 2020, 12:55:17 PM
Quote from: shark on December 16, 2020, 12:21:09 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 16, 2020, 11:03:51 AM
Like Ole & Arteta he's done nothing to warrant a chance of the job he's in, expectation for Lampard should be greater given the extent he's backed and the squad he inherited.
Watched the 2nd half of City last night, miles off where they were 2 years ago. I don't think all their issues will be solved by buying a top class centre forward either, they've got more issues then that.
It would go a long way though. With Aguero hardly ever playing they are left with Jesus. He's a very good player - but not sure he could be considered in the top 10 forwards in the league. And when you compare against the top clubs in Europe, and who is leading the line for them, he's not at the same level.
It will help but not sure to what extent. Anytime I've seen them they've struggled to create decent chances and when they had its not even been Jesus who's missed them, Sterling has always missed easy chances and will continue to do so. City no longer press like they used too and he's changed the dynamic in midfield which I assume it to protect his defence. Looks like he doesn't trust Foden to play centrally with De Bruyne.
Having supported City for a long time something just seems off this year.
Last year Liverpool were exceptional - no excuses.
This year it just all seems a bit stale and devoid of ideas - the exciting football is gone or shall I say the penetration is gone when we go at teams.
We still control the possession stats but we are really missing a striker who can put away a half chance or make something from nothing.
Sterlings game has improved under Pep but he seems to have reached a level. Jesus is good, not great.
Before last nights game we were favourites for the league - that had to be on reputation alone as our season so far did not warrant it.
The next few games are all winnnable but we are missing Aguero like never before
Pep has mentally exhausted City's players. He is just too intense.
I thought last season would have been his last at City. This will definitely be his last. He may even be sacked before the summer if things don't improve.
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 16, 2020, 12:23:30 PM
Bilic gone and big Sam to come in apparently.
That's harsh. Right after a good performance and point away to City, and they weren't adrift or anything. Maybe the board were worried Big Sam would have been snapped up if they'd waited! ;D
"19th Century football" is back!
Quote from: BennyCake on December 16, 2020, 01:39:09 PM
Quote from: Taylor on December 16, 2020, 01:05:20 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 16, 2020, 12:55:17 PM
Quote from: shark on December 16, 2020, 12:21:09 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 16, 2020, 11:03:51 AM
Like Ole & Arteta he's done nothing to warrant a chance of the job he's in, expectation for Lampard should be greater given the extent he's backed and the squad he inherited.
Watched the 2nd half of City last night, miles off where they were 2 years ago. I don't think all their issues will be solved by buying a top class centre forward either, they've got more issues then that.
It would go a long way though. With Aguero hardly ever playing they are left with Jesus. He's a very good player - but not sure he could be considered in the top 10 forwards in the league. And when you compare against the top clubs in Europe, and who is leading the line for them, he's not at the same level.
It will help but not sure to what extent. Anytime I've seen them they've struggled to create decent chances and when they had its not even been Jesus who's missed them, Sterling has always missed easy chances and will continue to do so. City no longer press like they used too and he's changed the dynamic in midfield which I assume it to protect his defence. Looks like he doesn't trust Foden to play centrally with De Bruyne.
Having supported City for a long time something just seems off this year.
Last year Liverpool were exceptional - no excuses.
This year it just all seems a bit stale and devoid of ideas - the exciting football is gone or shall I say the penetration is gone when we go at teams.
We still control the possession stats but we are really missing a striker who can put away a half chance or make something from nothing.
Sterlings game has improved under Pep but he seems to have reached a level. Jesus is good, not great.
Before last nights game we were favourites for the league - that had to be on reputation alone as our season so far did not warrant it.
The next few games are all winnnable but we are missing Aguero like never before
Pep has mentally exhausted City's players. He is just too intense.
I thought last season would have been his last at City. This will definitely be his last. He may even be sacked before the summer if things don't improve.
Jesus what was he at with the 4th official at the end. Over a throw in as opposed to the added on time i believe. V close to being in big trouble there.
City def dont seem to be the same force as seasons ago but shapin up to be a crazy season where a few wins on the bounce could change plenty
As it stands Southampton top of the Premier league. The English journalists had Hasenhuttl sacked when they lost 9-0 to Leicester last season. On the subject of sacking, poor form by West Brom to sack Bilic.
Liverpool will need to dip back into Southampton's squad again in January
Champions playing at home against the pretenders and bottlers! 4-0
The so called Tottenham title challenge under Jose has faded fast.
Handy confidence booster for Arsenal against Frank's chaps here
Good old Frank, you can't say he hasn't bought into the Christmas spirit of generosity
3-1 to Arsenal in the end. Chelsea missed a penalty late in the game. It might have caused Arsenal a few worries if the penalty had gone in.
Great game, big Sam for England, oh wait...
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 27, 2020, 06:24:48 PM
Great game, big Sam for England, oh wait...
Big Sam loves Anfield. 4 games in a row unbeaten there.
I'd say it busted a lot of coupons....
Quote from: Boycey on December 27, 2020, 07:00:39 PM
I'd say it busted a lot of coupons....
1/8 is nuts to be betting on, even the goal betting at 1/7 for two or more is cheap!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 27, 2020, 07:10:23 PM
Quote from: Boycey on December 27, 2020, 07:00:39 PM
I'd say it busted a lot of coupons....
1/8 is nuts to be betting on, even the goal betting at 1/7 for two or more is cheap!
My experience is if people have a big accumulator running there will always be a couple of short priced favourites in it....
I know you're much more prudent in how you invest your £3 ;)
Was always a strong possibility with Big Sam. Hard not to enjoy him.
Quote from: GJL on December 27, 2020, 07:18:41 PM
Was always a strong possibility with Big Sam. Hard not to enjoy him.
Only England manager with a 100% record, this fella is different gravy.
Quote from: Boycey on December 27, 2020, 07:13:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 27, 2020, 07:10:23 PM
Quote from: Boycey on December 27, 2020, 07:00:39 PM
I'd say it busted a lot of coupons....
1/8 is nuts to be betting on, even the goal betting at 1/7 for two or more is cheap!
My experience is if people have a big accumulator running there will always be a couple of short priced favourites in it....
I know you're much more prudent in how you invest your £3 ;)
I'm a fiver man and bet well and truly bate before thst! Rangers game 2 plus goals ;D ;D
Klopp never stops moaning.
For all he preaches about culture and standards, he doesn't like it when things don't go their way
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on December 28, 2020, 11:33:58 AM
Klopp never stops moaning.
For all he preaches about culture and standards, he doesn't like it when things don't go their way
And what? So did Ferguson, Wenger, Moanhinho still does, Carlo has done in the past. All managers do, just sticks in your craw more because he's on the right side of Stanley Park? Did Santy bring you one of those classy framed photos of Pickford taking Van Dyke out? Classy stuff ....
Murphy's dogs out again....
Everton v man City called off tonight after 5 new positive covid tests in the city squad.
Quote from: SHEEDY on December 28, 2020, 03:59:47 PM
Everton v man City called off tonight after 5 new positive covid tests in the city squad.
Everton should get the points ..
FFS these are highly paid professionals. They've no need to be putting themselves at risk
Quote from: johnnycool on December 28, 2020, 04:04:45 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on December 28, 2020, 03:59:47 PM
Everton v man City called off tonight after 5 new positive covid tests in the city squad.
Everton should get the points ..
FFS these are highly paid professionals. They've no need to be putting themselves at risk
Could have a major impact on City's challenge for the title as they will likely have Sunday's game pulled also. If that is the case they will have to fit in these 2 games and one earlier in the season against villa. If they go deeper into Europe they will have a lot of games to fit in
Quote from: johnnycool on December 28, 2020, 04:04:45 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on December 28, 2020, 03:59:47 PM
Everton v man City called off tonight after 5 new positive covid tests in the city squad.
Everton should get the points ..
FFS these are highly paid professionals. They've no need to be putting themselves at risk
Games should be forfeited, or play your panel players...
This could end up going like this all year
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 28, 2020, 04:28:32 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 28, 2020, 04:04:45 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on December 28, 2020, 03:59:47 PM
Everton v man City called off tonight after 5 new positive covid tests in the city squad.
Everton should get the points ..
FFS these are highly paid professionals. They've no need to be putting themselves at risk
Games should be forfeited, or play your panel players...
This could end up going like this all year
In Scotland teams have to field no matter what. Too much money in PL to do that. The only thing is that the season won't be extended as the Euros are on in the summer so will have to end on time
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 28, 2020, 04:28:32 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 28, 2020, 04:04:45 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on December 28, 2020, 03:59:47 PM
Everton v man City called off tonight after 5 new positive covid tests in the city squad.
Everton should get the points ..
FFS these are highly paid professionals. They've no need to be putting themselves at risk
Games should be forfeited, or play your panel players...
This could end up going like this all year
Surely the panel players will all have to quarantine though?
They all share dressing rooms, gyms etc.
It's going to hit more teams anyway. It only takes one person to bring it in.
And what about the teams City just played?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 28, 2020, 04:28:32 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 28, 2020, 04:04:45 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on December 28, 2020, 03:59:47 PM
Everton v man City called off tonight after 5 new positive covid tests in the city squad.
Everton should get the points ..
FFS these are highly paid professionals. They've no need to be putting themselves at risk
Games should be forfeited, or play your panel players...
This could end up going like this all year
Be interesting to see what will be done with the league cup Manchester Derby semi final next week.
In the earlier rounds Spurs got a bye when Leyton Orient forfeited over covid cases. With City involved a rescheduled date i bet will be given to them.
Quote from: johnnycool on December 28, 2020, 04:04:45 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on December 28, 2020, 03:59:47 PM
Everton v man City called off tonight after 5 new positive covid tests in the city squad.
Everton should get the points ..
FFS these are highly paid professionals. They've no need to be putting themselves at risk
That's bull to be honest. They're still people with wife's/girlfriends/kids/brothers/sisters/ unless you expect them to live in some kind of bubble for the 10 months of the season and over Christmas.
The way you make it sound it's only people who are lazy or deliberately "putting themselves at risk" who get coronavirus. That's simply not true.
Quote from: trileacman on December 28, 2020, 05:23:06 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 28, 2020, 04:04:45 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on December 28, 2020, 03:59:47 PM
Everton v man City called off tonight after 5 new positive covid tests in the city squad.
Everton should get the points ..
FFS these are highly paid professionals. They've no need to be putting themselves at risk
That's bull to be honest. They're still people with wife's/girlfriends/kids/brothers/sisters/ unless you expect them to live in some kind of bubble for the 10 months of the season and over Christmas.
The way you make it sound it's only people who are lazy or deliberately "putting themselves at risk" who get coronavirus. That's simply not true.
Course they do, but that's not the point, rugby agreed to forfeit games when unable to field, the money the pl has to test monitored track and trace is the best in the world..
They should only be with immediate family, brothers/sisters parents shouldn't be in contact in most places anyway
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 28, 2020, 05:12:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 28, 2020, 04:28:32 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 28, 2020, 04:04:45 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on December 28, 2020, 03:59:47 PM
Everton v man City called off tonight after 5 new positive covid tests in the city squad.
Everton should get the points ..
FFS these are highly paid professionals. They've no need to be putting themselves at risk
Games should be forfeited, or play your panel players...
This could end up going like this all year
Be interesting to see what will be done with the league cup Manchester Derby semi final next week.
In the earlier rounds Spurs got a bye when Leyton Orient forfeited over covid cases. With City involved a rescheduled date i bet will be given to them.
Twitter suggests the rule that led to the forfeiting of Orient game only applied to early rounds of competition. Either way it's another unwanted problem. Assuming it's off it'll leave City with 4 games to make up and Utd 2. Obviously the winner will have another fixture added to their schedule for the final. A long run in FA Cup and or Europe for either would make things very complicated....
Quote from: Boycey on December 28, 2020, 05:51:34 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 28, 2020, 05:12:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 28, 2020, 04:28:32 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 28, 2020, 04:04:45 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on December 28, 2020, 03:59:47 PM
Everton v man City called off tonight after 5 new positive covid tests in the city squad.
Everton should get the points ..
FFS these are highly paid professionals. They've no need to be putting themselves at risk
Games should be forfeited, or play your panel players...
This could end up going like this all year
Be interesting to see what will be done with the league cup Manchester Derby semi final next week.
In the earlier rounds Spurs got a bye when Leyton Orient forfeited over covid cases. With City involved a rescheduled date i bet will be given to them.
Twitter suggests the rule that led to the forfeiting of Orient game only applied to early rounds of competition. Either way it's another unwanted problem. Assuming it's off it'll leave City with 4 games to make up and Utd 2. Obviously the winner will have another fixture added to their schedule for the final. A long run in FA Cup and or Europe for either would make things very complicated....
Its simple really. Put two games 24 hours apart and make them play them with 2 different squads. Liverpool had to do it last year when the FA wouldn't budge, why should city be treated any different?
Chelsea have won 7 matches in the league so far against the teams placed 10th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 17th & 20th in the league. The only win recently was against West Ham and they were very lucky to win that too, they didn't play well.
He should be getting hammered in the media, with the squad he inherited and money he's spent he should be top of the league given how many points Liverpool have.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 29, 2020, 11:25:35 AM
Chelsea have won 7 matches in the league so far against the teams placed 10th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 17th & 20th in the league. The only win recently was against West Ham and they were very lucky to win that too, they didn't play well.
He should be getting hammered in the media, with the squad he inherited and money he's spent he should be top of the league given how many points Liverpool have.
Few lads in here mad looking Lampard sacked. Definitely cost them money before ;D
I think it's a fair enough observation that Frank has had an easy enough ride than say Ole but whether he deserves the sack I couldn't say....
I see Sheff Utd reporting Covid cases, I'm not sure if postponements are on the cards but it's not hard to see a situation where the Premier League could be in difficulties?
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 29, 2020, 11:31:30 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 29, 2020, 11:25:35 AM
Chelsea have won 7 matches in the league so far against the teams placed 10th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 17th & 20th in the league. The only win recently was against West Ham and they were very lucky to win that too, they didn't play well.
He should be getting hammered in the media, with the squad he inherited and money he's spent he should be top of the league given how many points Liverpool have.
Few lads in here mad looking Lampard sacked. Definitely cost them money before ;D
I don't get why there is so much disdain for him. There's much worse. I don't think he will see the season out mind you.
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 29, 2020, 04:04:18 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 29, 2020, 11:31:30 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 29, 2020, 11:25:35 AM
Chelsea have won 7 matches in the league so far against the teams placed 10th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 17th & 20th in the league. The only win recently was against West Ham and they were very lucky to win that too, they didn't play well.
He should be getting hammered in the media, with the squad he inherited and money he's spent he should be top of the league given how many points Liverpool have.
Few lads in here mad looking Lampard sacked. Definitely cost them money before ;D
I don't get why there is so much disdain for him. There's much worse. I don't think he will see the season out mind you.
If he was French he'd be grand. Not doing a whole pile wrong for me. Not at the top of the league but the way the league is at the minute two wins in a row springs you into a title race.
Are yis deliberately missing the point?
Fulham/Spurs game tomorrow night in doubt now too..
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 29, 2020, 04:04:18 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 29, 2020, 11:31:30 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 29, 2020, 11:25:35 AM
Chelsea have won 7 matches in the league so far against the teams placed 10th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 17th & 20th in the league. The only win recently was against West Ham and they were very lucky to win that too, they didn't play well.
He should be getting hammered in the media, with the squad he inherited and money he's spent he should be top of the league given how many points Liverpool have.
Few lads in here mad looking Lampard sacked. Definitely cost them money before ;D
I don't get why there is so much disdain for him. There's much worse. I don't think he will see the season out mind you.
United fans seem to have it in for him because they think poor Ole is getting a harder time off the press.
Like it f**king matters ;D
Leeds 4-0 up away to WBA before halftime?
WTF Liverpool??
Quote from: J70 on December 29, 2020, 06:42:45 PM
Leeds 4-0 up away to WBA before halftime?
WTF Liverpool??
They are shagged out from getting a draw v Liverpool!
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 29, 2020, 04:51:28 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 29, 2020, 04:04:18 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 29, 2020, 11:31:30 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 29, 2020, 11:25:35 AM
Chelsea have won 7 matches in the league so far against the teams placed 10th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 17th & 20th in the league. The only win recently was against West Ham and they were very lucky to win that too, they didn't play well.
He should be getting hammered in the media, with the squad he inherited and money he's spent he should be top of the league given how many points Liverpool have.
Few lads in here mad looking Lampard sacked. Definitely cost them money before ;D
I don't get why there is so much disdain for him. There's much worse. I don't think he will see the season out mind you.
If he was French he'd be grand. Not doing a whole pile wrong for me. Not at the top of the league but the way the league is at the minute two wins in a row springs you into a title race.
It's the other way around
If he was Franco Lampardo and had been plucked from Serie B obscurity he'd be gone long ago
Like European trophy-winning Maurizio Sarri
Quote from: sid waddell on December 29, 2020, 08:34:56 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 29, 2020, 04:51:28 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 29, 2020, 04:04:18 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 29, 2020, 11:31:30 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 29, 2020, 11:25:35 AM
Chelsea have won 7 matches in the league so far against the teams placed 10th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 17th & 20th in the league. The only win recently was against West Ham and they were very lucky to win that too, they didn't play well.
He should be getting hammered in the media, with the squad he inherited and money he's spent he should be top of the league given how many points Liverpool have.
Few lads in here mad looking Lampard sacked. Definitely cost them money before ;D
I don't get why there is so much disdain for him. There's much worse. I don't think he will see the season out mind you.
If he was French he'd be grand. Not doing a whole pile wrong for me. Not at the top of the league but the way the league is at the minute two wins in a row springs you into a title race.
It's the other way around
If he was Franco Lampardo and had been plucked from Serie B obscurity he'd be gone long ago
Like European trophy-winning Maurizio Sarri
That was the same Sarri that hadn't won an argument before he came to Chelsea?
Only one team can win the title each year. Is there no such thing as affording time anymore? Klopp had 4 or 5 years before he won anything at Liverpool for example and he had a 20+ year managerial career before that. Lampard is only in year 3 full stop.
Chelsea isn't the best place to learn on the job, but that he is. He'll get sacked eventually, that's just Chelsea but at the moment they have signed about 6 or 7 new starters and are trying to bed them in, in the most complicated, crushed up calender ever seen in football. The rush to get him the boot is a strange one.
Big Sam looks to have turned WBA around!
Decent win tonight
Manchester United's Liverpool 2013/14 impersonation continues
The quietest title challenge ever
Didn't really deserve that from what I saw.
Maybe that will wake Liverpool up now and stop the complacency against some of these "lesser" teams.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 29, 2020, 08:40:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 29, 2020, 08:34:56 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 29, 2020, 04:51:28 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 29, 2020, 04:04:18 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 29, 2020, 11:31:30 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 29, 2020, 11:25:35 AM
Chelsea have won 7 matches in the league so far against the teams placed 10th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 17th & 20th in the league. The only win recently was against West Ham and they were very lucky to win that too, they didn't play well.
He should be getting hammered in the media, with the squad he inherited and money he's spent he should be top of the league given how many points Liverpool have.
Few lads in here mad looking Lampard sacked. Definitely cost them money before ;D
I don't get why there is so much disdain for him. There's much worse. I don't think he will see the season out mind you.
If he was French he'd be grand. Not doing a whole pile wrong for me. Not at the top of the league but the way the league is at the minute two wins in a row springs you into a title race.
It's the other way around
If he was Franco Lampardo and had been plucked from Serie B obscurity he'd be gone long ago
Like European trophy-winning Maurizio Sarri
That was the same Sarri that hadn't won an argument before he came to Chelsea?
Only one team can win the title each year. Is there no such thing as affording time anymore? Klopp had 4 or 5 years before he won anything at Liverpool for example and he had a 20+ year managerial career before that. Lampard is only in year 3 full stop.
Chelsea isn't the best place to learn on the job, but that he is. He'll get sacked eventually, that's just Chelsea but at the moment they have signed about 6 or 7 new starters and are trying to bed them in, in the most complicated, crushed up calender ever seen in football. The rush to get him the boot is a strange one.
Ur still sort of missing the point there is no rush to get him the boot certainly not in the media that I can see... People are just pointing out that if he was Johnny Foreigner would he be getting the same treatment from the English press given the talent he has at his disposal?
I've nothing particularly against him and don't watch Chelsea enough to say whether he's doing a good job or not
Quote from: Boycey on December 29, 2020, 10:19:22 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 29, 2020, 08:40:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 29, 2020, 08:34:56 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 29, 2020, 04:51:28 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 29, 2020, 04:04:18 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 29, 2020, 11:31:30 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 29, 2020, 11:25:35 AM
Chelsea have won 7 matches in the league so far against the teams placed 10th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 17th & 20th in the league. The only win recently was against West Ham and they were very lucky to win that too, they didn't play well.
He should be getting hammered in the media, with the squad he inherited and money he's spent he should be top of the league given how many points Liverpool have.
Few lads in here mad looking Lampard sacked. Definitely cost them money before ;D
I don't get why there is so much disdain for him. There's much worse. I don't think he will see the season out mind you.
If he was French he'd be grand. Not doing a whole pile wrong for me. Not at the top of the league but the way the league is at the minute two wins in a row springs you into a title race.
It's the other way around
If he was Franco Lampardo and had been plucked from Serie B obscurity he'd be gone long ago
Like European trophy-winning Maurizio Sarri
That was the same Sarri that hadn't won an argument before he came to Chelsea?
Only one team can win the title each year. Is there no such thing as affording time anymore? Klopp had 4 or 5 years before he won anything at Liverpool for example and he had a 20+ year managerial career before that. Lampard is only in year 3 full stop.
Chelsea isn't the best place to learn on the job, but that he is. He'll get sacked eventually, that's just Chelsea but at the moment they have signed about 6 or 7 new starters and are trying to bed them in, in the most complicated, crushed up calender ever seen in football. The rush to get him the boot is a strange one.
Ur still sort of missing the point there is no rush to get him the boot certainly not in the media that I can see... People are just pointing out that if he was Johnny Foreigner would he be getting the same treatment from the English press given the talent he has at his disposal?
I've nothing particularly against him and don't watch Chelsea enough to say whether he's doing a good job or not
Compare the treatment Solskjaer has got compared to Lampard.
Why is that a surprise? Lampard is English....he's the only English manager at a club that wins anything. What did you all expect? The English to hammer their own? Sure Kane is running around nearly on a weekly basis now doing that sneaky thing that causes opposition players to fall on their necks or certainly awkwardly....remember Diego Costa?
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 30, 2020, 03:01:53 PM
Why is that a surprise? Lampard is English....he's the only English manager at a club that wins anything. What did you all expect? The English to hammer their own? Sure Kane is running around nearly on a weekly basis now doing that sneaky thing that causes opposition players to fall on their necks or certainly awkwardly....remember Diego Costa?
Murphy's dog is out again?
QuoteWe can confirm that our Premier League home fixture against Fulham, scheduled to take place this evening (Wednesday 30 December), has been postponed.
The Premier League informed us of the decision this afternoon, with Fulham having requested the postponement on the grounds of the number of COVID-19 positive cases among their players and staff.
Everyone at Tottenham Hotspur sends their best wishes to Fulham for a safe and speedy recovery to all those who are affected.
Details of a new date for the fixture will be confirmed in due course.
QuoteEverton Football Club regret the postponement of tonight's match against Manchester City - not only for the 2,000 fans who would have been attending, but for supporters on Merseyside and across the world.
Our players were prepared for the game, as were both the team staff and everyone at Goodison. Matchday is the most important date in our calendar. And this was a big one.
Whilst Everton will always have public safety uppermost, we will be requesting full disclosure of all the information that Manchester City provided to the Premier League so the Club can be clear on why this decision was taken
Spurs v Fulham game off. Some difference in the tone between Spurs statement and Everton's.
Their concern for the well being of the city players jumps off the page!
how many fans were Spurs allowed in?
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on December 30, 2020, 05:02:35 PM
how many fans were Spurs allowed in?
What relevance has that to do with player welfare and wishing them well?
Didn't see issues raised when the Newcastle game was called off a while ago either.
City back training and no new cases, the plot thickens.
Have the 5 City players been named? My FF team taking a beating this week with the postponed games.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 30, 2020, 05:04:29 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on December 30, 2020, 05:02:35 PM
how many fans were Spurs allowed in?
What relevance has that to do with player welfare and wishing them well?
Didn't see issues raised when the Newcastle game was called off a while ago either.
Everton were allowed 2000 fans into the home game.
I think they were annoyed about that
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on December 30, 2020, 08:16:19 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 30, 2020, 05:04:29 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on December 30, 2020, 05:02:35 PM
how many fans were Spurs allowed in?
What relevance has that to do with player welfare and wishing them well?
Didn't see issues raised when the Newcastle game was called off a while ago either.
Everton were allowed 2000 fans into the home game.
I think they were annoyed about that
What relevance has that to do with player welfare and wishing them well?
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 30, 2020, 09:00:29 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on December 30, 2020, 08:16:19 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 30, 2020, 05:04:29 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on December 30, 2020, 05:02:35 PM
how many fans were Spurs allowed in?
What relevance has that to do with player welfare and wishing them well?
Didn't see issues raised when the Newcastle game was called off a while ago either.
Everton were allowed 2000 fans into the home game.
I think they were annoyed about that
What relevance has that to do with player welfare and wishing them well?
Liverpool fans on gaaboard having a go at Everton for not showing enough concern for City players. Fake outrage at its best.
Who are these City players with covid? I thought Liverpool fans would be more outraged that it now seems City used this situation to gain an advantage by not wanting to play their 2nd game in 48hrs with no strikers available.
Everton should get the 3 points. City didn't fancy a tough sway game. If they were top of league would game have been played?? 😉😉
Quote from: SHEEDY on December 30, 2020, 09:22:57 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 30, 2020, 09:00:29 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on December 30, 2020, 08:16:19 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 30, 2020, 05:04:29 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on December 30, 2020, 05:02:35 PM
how many fans were Spurs allowed in?
What relevance has that to do with player welfare and wishing them well?
Didn't see issues raised when the Newcastle game was called off a while ago either.
Everton were allowed 2000 fans into the home game.
I think they were annoyed about that
What relevance has that to do with player welfare and wishing them well?
Liverpool fans on gaaboard having a go at Everton for not showing enough concern for City players. Fake outrage at its best.
Who are these City players with covid? I thought Liverpool fans would be more outraged that it now seems City used this situation to gain an advantage by not wanting to play their 2nd game in 48hrs with no strikers available.
City already have games to make up and are still involved in Cup Semi Finals etc, I don't see how postponing last nights game has helped them at all. In fact I think it will be more of a disadvantage to them as they will have another game now to fit in somewhere.
Quote from: laoislad on December 30, 2020, 10:13:42 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on December 30, 2020, 09:22:57 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 30, 2020, 09:00:29 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on December 30, 2020, 08:16:19 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 30, 2020, 05:04:29 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on December 30, 2020, 05:02:35 PM
how many fans were Spurs allowed in?
What relevance has that to do with player welfare and wishing them well?
Didn't see issues raised when the Newcastle game was called off a while ago either.
Everton were allowed 2000 fans into the home game.
I think they were annoyed about that
What relevance has that to do with player welfare and wishing them well?
Liverpool fans on gaaboard having a go at Everton for not showing enough concern for City players. Fake outrage at its best.
Who are these City players with covid? I thought Liverpool fans would be more outraged that it now seems City used this situation to gain an advantage by not wanting to play their 2nd game in 48hrs with no strikers available.
City already have games to make up and are still involved in Cup Semi Finals etc, I don't see how postponing last nights game has helped them at all. In fact I think it will be more of a disadvantage to them as they will have another game now to fit in somewhere.
They really don't gain an advantage. It's the old GAA mentality coming through which follows a paranoid chain of thought that the only reason for postponement is to gain an advantage.
Quote from: SHEEDY on December 30, 2020, 09:22:57 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 30, 2020, 09:00:29 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on December 30, 2020, 08:16:19 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 30, 2020, 05:04:29 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on December 30, 2020, 05:02:35 PM
how many fans were Spurs allowed in?
What relevance has that to do with player welfare and wishing them well?
Didn't see issues raised when the Newcastle game was called off a while ago either.
Everton were allowed 2000 fans into the home game.
I think they were annoyed about that
What relevance has that to do with player welfare and wishing them well?
Liverpool fans on gaaboard having a go at Everton for not showing enough concern for City players. Fake outrage at its best.
Who are these City players with covid? I thought Liverpool fans would be more outraged that it now seems City used this situation to gain an advantage by not wanting to play their 2nd game in 48hrs with no strikers available.
Simply comparing the different approaches. I've no love for Spurs but at least they had the decency to wish the Fulham players well. Everton on the other hand come across as petty and small minded by questioning the integrity of what City have said. If City were at shenanigans then they should be exposed but I somehow doubt it given that they are so under the microscope
I doubt City were at anything sneaky here Covid related. Guardiola's mother died from it remember. You would need to be dead inside to use it to a sporting advantage after that.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 30, 2020, 10:44:46 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on December 30, 2020, 09:22:57 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 30, 2020, 09:00:29 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on December 30, 2020, 08:16:19 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 30, 2020, 05:04:29 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on December 30, 2020, 05:02:35 PM
how many fans were Spurs allowed in?
What relevance has that to do with player welfare and wishing them well?
Didn't see issues raised when the Newcastle game was called off a while ago either.
Everton were allowed 2000 fans into the home game.
I think they were annoyed about that
What relevance has that to do with player welfare and wishing them well?
Liverpool fans on gaaboard having a go at Everton for not showing enough concern for City players. Fake outrage at its best.
Who are these City players with covid? I thought Liverpool fans would be more outraged that it now seems City used this situation to gain an advantage by not wanting to play their 2nd game in 48hrs with no strikers available.
Simply comparing the different approaches. I've no love for Spurs but at least they had the decency to wish the Fulham players well. Everton on the other hand come across as petty and small minded by questioning the integrity of what City have said. If City were at shenanigans then they should be exposed but I somehow doubt it given that they are so under the microscope
so in conclusion: Everton... petty and small minded, don't care about anybody. Man City... Integrity upheld, not bad lads, not like Everton. Spurs: decent lads for showing a bit of concern, not like Everton. 🙄
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 30, 2020, 10:55:25 PM
I doubt City were at anything sneaky here Covid related. Guardiola's mother died from it remember. You would need to be dead inside to use it to a sporting advantage after that.
😂
Quote from: SHEEDY on December 30, 2020, 11:01:34 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 30, 2020, 10:44:46 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on December 30, 2020, 09:22:57 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 30, 2020, 09:00:29 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on December 30, 2020, 08:16:19 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 30, 2020, 05:04:29 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on December 30, 2020, 05:02:35 PM
how many fans were Spurs allowed in?
What relevance has that to do with player welfare and wishing them well?
Didn't see issues raised when the Newcastle game was called off a while ago either.
Everton were allowed 2000 fans into the home game.
I think they were annoyed about that
What relevance has that to do with player welfare and wishing them well?
Liverpool fans on gaaboard having a go at Everton for not showing enough concern for City players. Fake outrage at its best.
Who are these City players with covid? I thought Liverpool fans would be more outraged that it now seems City used this situation to gain an advantage by not wanting to play their 2nd game in 48hrs with no strikers available.
Simply comparing the different approaches. I've no love for Spurs but at least they had the decency to wish the Fulham players well. Everton on the other hand come across as petty and small minded by questioning the integrity of what City have said. If City were at shenanigans then they should be exposed but I somehow doubt it given that they are so under the microscope
so in conclusion: Everton... petty and small minded, don't care about anybody. Man City... Integrity upheld, not bad lads, not like Everton. Spurs: decent lads for showing a bit of concern, not like Everton. 🙄
Basically....yeah
Let's face it, if Liverpool released a statement like that the resident Everton moral high grounders here would be up in arms over the lack of decency shown. The point is be careful if you want to call others out on decency.
Everton shit the nest again. West Ham beat them 1-0
Absolutely cat.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on January 01, 2021, 08:47:47 PM
Absolutely cat.
They were dreadful, as were West Ham btw
Utd playing well, would think Grealish could get on most teams, very good on the ball, always looking it
Pogba playing well tonight.
Villa are a good side that play exciting football. Grealish is a brilliant player.
Pogba caught on camera taking Shaw to dive, then does it himself a few minutes later. When will the officials catch on to his antics??
Quote from: MayoBuck on January 01, 2021, 09:13:14 PM
Pogba playing well tonight.
Same fella went for goal in the final minute of stoppage time, giving Villa that last attack....pure, unforgivable ego
Grealish reminds me of a young Gazza. Always playing with his head up, great vision, can thread a pass, strong as f**k, ball sticks to his feet.
Whichever big club ends up splurging on him will have a hell of a player.
If he was chocolate hed eat himself. And if hed cut out the divin hed be better thought of. Same could be said for plenty more. But yes, helluva player developin there
Grealish is 25 at this stage hes hardly a 'young' anyone? Will there be a move out there for him in a post Covid transfer market for the type of money Villa will want for him?
Quote from: Boycey on January 02, 2021, 09:02:19 AM
Grealish is 25 at this stage hes hardly a 'young' anyone? Will there be a move out there for him in a post Covid transfer market for the type of money Villa will want for him?
Unless Barca or Real want him, I can't see him leaving Villa in 2021. With such a long contract, and no need for incoming cash, Villa can ask for any price they want. He doesn't seem likely to push to leave - and Villa will continue to spend big to improve the team around him.
Will VAR get medal if Man U win league?🤣
Arsenal are 2-0 up at West Bromwich
Three wins in a row might make them title contenders
Ref overtaking the West Brom midfielder for 4th goal - not a great sign for big sam !
I'm sure Franks glad the game went ahead tonight ...
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 03, 2021, 05:15:20 PM
I'm sure Franks glad the game went ahead tonight ...
A real welcome to the Premier league for Thiago Silva this evening. Looks totally lost in a poorly organised Chelsea defence.
Frank's young lions doing very well here
The future is bright
A 1-0 victory for Chelsea in the second half
Frank Lampard has silenced his doubters
26 points from 17 games with that squad is pathetic, if he wasn't a Chelsea legend he'd have been sacked this morning.
Beat by another overrated manager (on this board) well yesterday in fairness.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on January 04, 2021, 10:45:02 AM
26 points from 17 games with that squad is pathetic, if he wasn't a Chelsea legend he'd have been sacked this morning.
No expectations last year. Spending a few quid fairly puts the pressure on
Southampton down a few players tonight, Liverpool minus a goal
I'll go with pool 5-0. Due a few goals after a couple blanks.
No shots on target... price getting better
Poor enough performance from Liverpool but thought Southampton were brilliant. Got the bonus of the early goal but their defensive set up from then on in was top class. No shot on target against until the 75th min says it all.
If you were a Liverpool supporter you'd had to be slightly concerned with last few results, I just hope they don't click Sunday week..
Great result for Southampton when you consider they were without 4 starters tonight due to covid and injuries and don't have the strength in depth to cover such losses like Liverpool.
City have it won.
It's funny how quick things can change now there's increased medical testing 😉
Quote from: BennyCake on December 16, 2020, 01:39:09 PM
Quote from: Taylor on December 16, 2020, 01:05:20 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 16, 2020, 12:55:17 PM
Quote from: shark on December 16, 2020, 12:21:09 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 16, 2020, 11:03:51 AM
Like Ole & Arteta he's done nothing to warrant a chance of the job he's in, expectation for Lampard should be greater given the extent he's backed and the squad he inherited.
Watched the 2nd half of City last night, miles off where they were 2 years ago. I don't think all their issues will be solved by buying a top class centre forward either, they've got more issues then that.
It would go a long way though. With Aguero hardly ever playing they are left with Jesus. He's a very good player - but not sure he could be considered in the top 10 forwards in the league. And when you compare against the top clubs in Europe, and who is leading the line for them, he's not at the same level.
It will help but not sure to what extent. Anytime I've seen them they've struggled to create decent chances and when they had its not even been Jesus who's missed them, Sterling has always missed easy chances and will continue to do so. City no longer press like they used too and he's changed the dynamic in midfield which I assume it to protect his defence. Looks like he doesn't trust Foden to play centrally with De Bruyne.
Having supported City for a long time something just seems off this year.
Last year Liverpool were exceptional - no excuses.
This year it just all seems a bit stale and devoid of ideas - the exciting football is gone or shall I say the penetration is gone when we go at teams.
We still control the possession stats but we are really missing a striker who can put away a half chance or make something from nothing.
Sterlings game has improved under Pep but he seems to have reached a level. Jesus is good, not great.
Before last nights game we were favourites for the league - that had to be on reputation alone as our season so far did not warrant it.
The next few games are all winnnable but we are missing Aguero like never before
Pep has mentally exhausted City's players. He is just too intense.
I thought last season would have been his last at City. This will definitely be his last. He may even be sacked before the summer if things don't improve.
I wouldn't be sacking him just yet
Quote from: SHEEDY on January 04, 2021, 10:10:48 PM
It's funny how quick things can change now there's increased medical testing 😉
Covid - conspiracy against LFC!
LFC had probably one of the easiest xmas run of games
4 games in 16 days
5 points.
Quote from: Rich Ricci on January 04, 2021, 09:58:02 PM
Poor enough performance from Liverpool but thought Southampton were brilliant. Got the bonus of the early goal but their defensive set up from then on in was top class. No shot on target against until the 75th min says it all.
If you were a Liverpool supporter you'd had to be slightly concerned with last few results, I just hope they don't click Sunday week..
I'd fully expect Liverpool to beat Manchester United but consistency wise they look well off, they just look mentally shot
Wouldn't be unhappy at all with an FA Cup exit
Great week for Manchester City, and they have a very good run of fixtures coming up in January, you'd have to make them favourites
Need to buy two centre backs now !
At least the league is interesting this year!
After getting defeated by Southampton Klopp has a moan about the number of penalties Utd get. Lol.
Quote from: GJL on January 04, 2021, 11:27:48 PM
After getting defeated by Southampton Klopp has a moan about the number of penalties Utd get. Lol.
Mane was like Tom Daley tonight 🤣🤣
Did you lump on for the 5-0, RC?
It's a strange league this year. Two or three wins at this stage could put anyone from West Ham up really close to 1st spot. Really interesting to see who is going to go on that run.
Anyone making a January signing at this stage that has an instant impact would be favourites.
Klopp firing shots, "I hear now that Manchester United had more penalties in two years than I had in five-and-a-half years. I've no idea if that's my fault, or how that can happen.
"But it's no excuse for the performance. We cannot change it, we have to respect the decisions. But we can change our performance. That's our focus now."
He's not really telling any lies. United have something like 1 in 2 games in all competitions under Ole. Scary.
The one at the weekend just shows all that is wrong with football at minute.
Klopp is a very sore loser - what has United got to do with his team last night? I think Leicester have got even more penalties than United though. But you can't compare the number of penalties one team gets to another, there are at least 11 different individuals playing for each team that all play in their unique way. Some draw more fouls/penalties than others.
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 05, 2021, 11:44:29 AM
Klopp is a very sore loser - what has United got to do with his team last night? I think Leicester have got even more penalties than United though. But you can't compare the number of penalties one team gets to another, there are at least 11 different individuals playing for each team that all play in their unique way. Some draw more fouls/penalties than others.
There is no doubt he's a professional whinger. They don't get pens, they don't get the same rest, the league is conspiring against his plucky Liverpool team.
Salah is on the ground more than his feet and you never hear anyone say anything about that. He should get a job testing mattresses he lies down that much.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 05, 2021, 10:55:51 AM
He's not really telling any lies. United have something like 1 in 2 games in all competitions under Ole. Scary.
The one at the weekend just shows all that is wrong with football at minute.
It was a clear penalty, the new footage from another angle which the VAR official had access showed that Pogba had been fouled.
There's no clear outright challenger this year (so far), two defeats and you could drop to 8/9th in the league, same as the other teams can move up 3/4 places with a win or two..
Its certainly thrown up some strange results so far this year, playing in an empty stadium is a big factor, the run of away results for Utd is an example of that..
Liverpool in a dip of form, that's it, they can't lose that class they have maintained for 3 years for the rest of the year, a good bounce back game at home, few goals and that run is back on, plus this year they have had a run of injuries that they never really suffered with
City look to have settled a bit recently, that was a huge win away to Chelsea, so be interesting to see their form over the next few games..
The team that wins the most head to heads with the top six will have the confidence to push on in the later part of the year, though be some craic if there was so many teams hunting for a top finish, but history will generally show 1 or 2 teams pull away from the rest
Here's the list of penalties awarded in the league this season. Leicester top with 10. Utd have 6, Liverpool 5.
https://www.transfermarkt.us/premier-league/topErhalteneElfmeter/wettbewerb/GB1 (https://www.transfermarkt.us/premier-league/topErhalteneElfmeter/wettbewerb/GB1)
Plus United havent got more penalties under Solskjaer than Liverpool under Klopp so more garbage from Klopp.
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 05, 2021, 01:56:26 PM
Plus United havent got more penalties under Solskjaer than Liverpool under Klopp so more garbage from Klopp.
Not true, United in all competitions are something like 1 in 2 under Ole in a 2.5 year reign.
Klopp has been in charge of Liverpool maybe double that time.
Edit. 42 Penalties in 115 games. 1 every 2.73 games. That is insane.
Ferguson was the biggest sore loser and moaner the game has ever seen so it's funny seeing United fans now bitching about Klopp doing the same.
Funny thing is it was always mind games apparently when Ferguson did it.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 05, 2021, 02:11:10 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 05, 2021, 01:56:26 PM
Plus United havent got more penalties under Solskjaer than Liverpool under Klopp so more garbage from Klopp.
Not true, United in all competitions are something like 1 in 2 under Ole in a 2.5 year reign.
Klopp has been in charge of Liverpool maybe double that time.
Edit. 42 Penalties in 115 games. 1 every 2.73 games. That is insane.
I think since VAR has been in place there has been so many penalties .. I wonder what the the difference is since VAR has been brought in..
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 05, 2021, 02:11:10 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 05, 2021, 01:56:26 PM
Plus United havent got more penalties under Solskjaer than Liverpool under Klopp so more garbage from Klopp.
Not true, United in all competitions are something like 1 in 2 under Ole in a 2.5 year reign.
Klopp has been in charge of Liverpool maybe double that time.
Edit. 42 Penalties in 115 games. 1 every 2.73 games. That is insane.
So even the European referees love giving Ole's team penalties their not entitled to.............
I like Klopp but he does like a good old whine when things aren't going his way.
Im not sure why any club is complaining about VAR.
Yes it is down to millimetres now for offside and almost 'any' contact for penalties however the same people were crying about decisions when referees had sole discretion and the retort was always 'these things even themselves out over the course of a season'.
As for Klopp - yes he is a whinger but he is also a winner - Ferguson was the same.
And these comments could make a difference in some decisions in future games. If that is the case they will have been worthwhile
Klopp's head is gone. Can't stick it when it's put up to him. FACT!
Quote from: trailer on January 05, 2021, 03:00:01 PM
Klopp's head is gone. Can't stick it when it's put up to him. FACT!
Your FACT is an opinion.
Was it not up put up to him when they won the CL and the PL?
Quote from: Maroon Manc on January 05, 2021, 01:11:14 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 05, 2021, 10:55:51 AM
He's not really telling any lies. United have something like 1 in 2 games in all competitions under Ole. Scary.
The one at the weekend just shows all that is wrong with football at minute.
It was a clear penalty, the new footage from another angle which the VAR official had access showed that Pogba had been fouled.
Such nonsense, just because Pogba brushed the defenders leg before he tripped himself doesn't make it a penalty. It was an awful decision
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 05, 2021, 03:48:51 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on January 05, 2021, 01:11:14 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 05, 2021, 10:55:51 AM
He's not really telling any lies. United have something like 1 in 2 games in all competitions under Ole. Scary.
The one at the weekend just shows all that is wrong with football at minute.
It was a clear penalty, the new footage from another angle which the VAR official had access showed that Pogba had been fouled.
Such nonsense, just because Pogba brushed the defenders leg before he tripped himself doesn't make it a penalty. It was an awful decision
You've clearly not seen the angle which VAR had access too and that the reason the ref wasn't told to go look at it again. It's a clear pen.
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 05, 2021, 03:48:51 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on January 05, 2021, 01:11:14 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 05, 2021, 10:55:51 AM
He's not really telling any lies. United have something like 1 in 2 games in all competitions under Ole. Scary.
The one at the weekend just shows all that is wrong with football at minute.
It was a clear penalty, the new footage from another angle which the VAR official had access showed that Pogba had been fouled.
Such nonsense, just because Pogba brushed the defenders leg before he tripped himself doesn't make it a penalty. It was an awful decision
It was almost comical that it was given, especially when Pogba only minutes before tells Shaw he should have dived!
Mane had a bigger claim for a peno last night but it was turned down.
Actually thought the ref in general was horrendous last night. Thiago hardly touched the guy for the free that led to their goal and then later on Milner gets absolutely cleaned out of it by Walcott and not so much as a free kick. Was another incident where a player had Salah in a headlock nearly and once again nothing was given.
Quote from: laoislad on January 05, 2021, 04:04:30 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 05, 2021, 03:48:51 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on January 05, 2021, 01:11:14 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 05, 2021, 10:55:51 AM
He's not really telling any lies. United have something like 1 in 2 games in all competitions under Ole. Scary.
The one at the weekend just shows all that is wrong with football at minute.
It was a clear penalty, the new footage from another angle which the VAR official had access showed that Pogba had been fouled.
Such nonsense, just because Pogba brushed the defenders leg before he tripped himself doesn't make it a penalty. It was an awful decision
It was almost comical that it was given.
Mane had a bigger claim for a peno last night but it was turned down.
Actually thought the ref in general was horrendous last night. Thiago hardly touched the guy for the free that led to their goal and then later on Milner gets absolutely cleaned out of it by Walcott and not so much as a free kick. Was another incident where a player had Salah in a headlock nearly and once again nothing was given.
Utter balls, Walcott blocked the ball as Milner was kicking it, you could hear the thud of both them on the ball. No foul any day of the week.
Jesus some of the Liverpool supporters are worse than Klopp.
Ye are still top of the league FFS.
And ye have had plenty of decisions go your way over the last couple of years.
Imagine if ye were back in the position ye were 5 or 6 years ago.
Moaning bastids - as enjoyable & admirable as yous have been in recent seasons the first sign of adversity ye revert to type
Quote from: johnnycool on January 05, 2021, 04:09:32 PM
Quote from: laoislad on January 05, 2021, 04:04:30 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 05, 2021, 03:48:51 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on January 05, 2021, 01:11:14 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 05, 2021, 10:55:51 AM
He's not really telling any lies. United have something like 1 in 2 games in all competitions under Ole. Scary.
The one at the weekend just shows all that is wrong with football at minute.
It was a clear penalty, the new footage from another angle which the VAR official had access showed that Pogba had been fouled.
Such nonsense, just because Pogba brushed the defenders leg before he tripped himself doesn't make it a penalty. It was an awful decision
It was almost comical that it was given.
Mane had a bigger claim for a peno last night but it was turned down.
Actually thought the ref in general was horrendous last night. Thiago hardly touched the guy for the free that led to their goal and then later on Milner gets absolutely cleaned out of it by Walcott and not so much as a free kick. Was another incident where a player had Salah in a headlock nearly and once again nothing was given.
Utter balls, Walcott blocked the ball as Milner was kicking it, you could hear the thud of both them on the ball. No foul any day of the week.
It was a two footed lunge ffs!
https://twitter.com/mceachern_ty/status/1346218735804305408?s=20
Quote from: johnnycool on January 05, 2021, 04:09:32 PM
Quote from: laoislad on January 05, 2021, 04:04:30 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 05, 2021, 03:48:51 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on January 05, 2021, 01:11:14 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 05, 2021, 10:55:51 AM
He's not really telling any lies. United have something like 1 in 2 games in all competitions under Ole. Scary.
The one at the weekend just shows all that is wrong with football at minute.
It was a clear penalty, the new footage from another angle which the VAR official had access showed that Pogba had been fouled.
Such nonsense, just because Pogba brushed the defenders leg before he tripped himself doesn't make it a penalty. It was an awful decision
It was almost comical that it was given.
Mane had a bigger claim for a peno last night but it was turned down.
Actually thought the ref in general was horrendous last night. Thiago hardly touched the guy for the free that led to their goal and then later on Milner gets absolutely cleaned out of it by Walcott and not so much as a free kick. Was another incident where a player had Salah in a headlock nearly and once again nothing was given.
Utter balls, Walcott blocked the ball as Milner was kicking it, you could hear the thud of both them on the ball. No foul any day of the week.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: laoislad on January 05, 2021, 04:21:11 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 05, 2021, 04:09:32 PM
Quote from: laoislad on January 05, 2021, 04:04:30 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 05, 2021, 03:48:51 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on January 05, 2021, 01:11:14 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 05, 2021, 10:55:51 AM
He's not really telling any lies. United have something like 1 in 2 games in all competitions under Ole. Scary.
The one at the weekend just shows all that is wrong with football at minute.
It was a clear penalty, the new footage from another angle which the VAR official had access showed that Pogba had been fouled.
Such nonsense, just because Pogba brushed the defenders leg before he tripped himself doesn't make it a penalty. It was an awful decision
It was almost comical that it was given.
Mane had a bigger claim for a peno last night but it was turned down.
Actually thought the ref in general was horrendous last night. Thiago hardly touched the guy for the free that led to their goal and then later on Milner gets absolutely cleaned out of it by Walcott and not so much as a free kick. Was another incident where a player had Salah in a headlock nearly and once again nothing was given.
Utter balls, Walcott blocked the ball as Milner was kicking it, you could hear the thud of both them on the ball. No foul any day of the week.
It was a two footed lunge ffs!
https://twitter.com/mceachern_ty/status/1346218735804305408?s=20
Looked a lot worse there in fairness. Must be the Everton thing in him still ;D
Quote from: Maroon Manc on January 05, 2021, 03:58:06 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 05, 2021, 03:48:51 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on January 05, 2021, 01:11:14 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 05, 2021, 10:55:51 AM
He's not really telling any lies. United have something like 1 in 2 games in all competitions under Ole. Scary.
The one at the weekend just shows all that is wrong with football at minute.
It was a clear penalty, the new footage from another angle which the VAR official had access showed that Pogba had been fouled.
Such nonsense, just because Pogba brushed the defenders leg before he tripped himself doesn't make it a penalty. It was an awful decision
You've clearly not seen the angle which VAR had access too and that the reason the ref wasn't told to go look at it again. It's a clear pen.
feel free to post the link.
Ive seen it from several angles and non of them are a pen
Quote from: johnnycool on January 05, 2021, 04:09:32 PM
Quote from: laoislad on January 05, 2021, 04:04:30 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 05, 2021, 03:48:51 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on January 05, 2021, 01:11:14 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 05, 2021, 10:55:51 AM
He's not really telling any lies. United have something like 1 in 2 games in all competitions under Ole. Scary.
The one at the weekend just shows all that is wrong with football at minute.
It was a clear penalty, the new footage from another angle which the VAR official had access showed that Pogba had been fouled.
Such nonsense, just because Pogba brushed the defenders leg before he tripped himself doesn't make it a penalty. It was an awful decision
It was almost comical that it was given.
Mane had a bigger claim for a peno last night but it was turned down.
Actually thought the ref in general was horrendous last night. Thiago hardly touched the guy for the free that led to their goal and then later on Milner gets absolutely cleaned out of it by Walcott and not so much as a free kick. Was another incident where a player had Salah in a headlock nearly and once again nothing was given.
Utter balls, Walcott blocked the ball as Milner was kicking it, you could hear the thud of both them on the ball. No foul any day of the week.
:o
It's absolutely gas the state people get themselves in over these things. Can anyone that is an adult give me me a rational reason as to why Utd would be awarded spurious penalties ffs....
Even the Pogba one that's currently being whinged about it's an innocuous enough one. Ref standing 5 yards away points to spot after a tangle of legs VAR can't conclusively overrule it (which for right or wrong is how VAR is supposed to work) penalty stands. Had the ref not given the peno I wouldn't have expected VAR to overrule him and awarded it. It's part and parcel of it, move on ta f**k....
The Loserpool fans' reactions on this thread is the tonic I need! ;D
Quote from: trailer on January 05, 2021, 04:43:57 PM
The Loserpool fans' reactions on this thread is the tonic I need! ;D
That and people who use words like "loserpool".
Are you 12?
Quote from: Boycey on January 05, 2021, 04:24:49 PM
It's absolutely gas the state people get themselves in over these things. Can anyone that is an adult give me me a rational reason as to why Utd would be awarded spurious penalties ffs....
Even the Pogba one that's currently being whinged about it's an innocuous enough one. Ref standing 5 yards away points to spot after a tangle of legs VAR can't conclusively overrule it (which for right or wrong is how VAR is supposed to work) penalty stands. Had the ref not given the peno I wouldn't have expected VAR to overrule him and awarded it. It's part and parcel of it, move on ta f**k....
Think you've called it correctly.
Quote from: J70 on January 05, 2021, 06:23:08 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 05, 2021, 04:43:57 PM
The Loserpool fans' reactions on this thread is the tonic I need! ;D
That and people who use words like "loserpool".
Are you 12?
Haven't heard the loserpool one in while. How quaint.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 05, 2021, 02:40:33 AM
Did you lump on for the 5-0, RC?
Went with Pool 4-1 in the end 🙈
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 05, 2021, 04:23:32 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on January 05, 2021, 03:58:06 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 05, 2021, 03:48:51 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on January 05, 2021, 01:11:14 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 05, 2021, 10:55:51 AM
He's not really telling any lies. United have something like 1 in 2 games in all competitions under Ole. Scary.
The one at the weekend just shows all that is wrong with football at minute.
It was a clear penalty, the new footage from another angle which the VAR official had access showed that Pogba had been fouled.
Such nonsense, just because Pogba brushed the defenders leg before he tripped himself doesn't make it a penalty. It was an awful decision
You've clearly not seen the angle which VAR had access too and that the reason the ref wasn't told to go look at it again. It's a clear pen.
feel free to post the link.
Ive seen it from several angles and non of them are a pen
Presume it's this one:
https://twitter.com/tonigelink/status/1346029087010283521?s=21
Quote from: OgraAnDun on January 06, 2021, 08:14:14 AM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 05, 2021, 04:23:32 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on January 05, 2021, 03:58:06 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 05, 2021, 03:48:51 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on January 05, 2021, 01:11:14 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 05, 2021, 10:55:51 AM
He's not really telling any lies. United have something like 1 in 2 games in all competitions under Ole. Scary.
The one at the weekend just shows all that is wrong with football at minute.
It was a clear penalty, the new footage from another angle which the VAR official had access showed that Pogba had been fouled.
Such nonsense, just because Pogba brushed the defenders leg before he tripped himself doesn't make it a penalty. It was an awful decision
You've clearly not seen the angle which VAR had access too and that the reason the ref wasn't told to go look at it again. It's a clear pen.
feel free to post the link.
Ive seen it from several angles and non of them are a pen
Presume it's this one:
https://twitter.com/tonigelink/status/1346029087010283521?s=21
That's the one.
This CV is getting out of control lads. I think the FA should show some leadership and call it a day on the league. Just award it to the current leaders and start afresh in September.
Quote from: GJL on January 12, 2021, 10:32:37 PM
This CV is getting out of control lads. I think the FA should show some leadership and call it a day on the league. Just award it to the current leaders and start afresh in September.
Here here!
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 12, 2021, 10:36:35 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 12, 2021, 10:32:37 PM
This CV is getting out of control lads. I think the FA should show some leadership and call it a day on the league. Just award it to the current leaders and start afresh in September.
Here here!
+1 :D
Quote from: gaafan2 on January 12, 2021, 10:41:51 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 12, 2021, 10:36:35 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 12, 2021, 10:32:37 PM
This CV is getting out of control lads. I think the FA should show some leadership and call it a day on the league. Just award it to the current leaders and start afresh in September.
Here here!
+1 :D
Nah, time to null and void it. Public health is bigger than Sport. Sure anyone who wins it under these circumstances has an asterisk by their title....
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 12, 2021, 10:45:51 PM
Quote from: gaafan2 on January 12, 2021, 10:41:51 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 12, 2021, 10:36:35 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 12, 2021, 10:32:37 PM
This CV is getting out of control lads. I think the FA should show some leadership and call it a day on the league. Just award it to the current leaders and start afresh in September.
Here here!
+1 :D
Nah, time to null and void it. Public health is bigger than Sport. Sure anyone who wins it under these circumstances has an asterisk by their title....
I'm glad you've admitted that...
United are 3rd favourites.
Surprisingly city are as short as 4/5 in a lot of places.
you can get united at 6/1 if you fancy them
The way City are playing no 4/5 is a really decent price....
Once they have played their games in hand, that's them sorted to be in the top 2 with a better goal difference than Utd, they'll pump Brighton tonight at home, they then have another 2 home games v Palace and Villa!
Liverpool will have had a nice rest for the Utd game, and playing at home should see a 2-0 win
City should win it from here. They've sorted their defence out, and they're clicking now going forward.
Liverpool's centre back injury problems are going to be too much to overcome, especially as it robs them of Fabinho, and now Henderson, in midfield. Whatever the reason was, as with City last year, not strengthening that part of the team is going to blow the season.
Honestly, at this point, I'll be happy enough if Liverpool finish top three and are ready to start again with a fit squad next year.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 12:11:25 PM
The way City are playing no 4/5 is a really decent price....
Once they have played their games in hand, that's them sorted to be in the top 2 with a better goal difference than Utd, they'll pump Brighton tonight at home, they then have another 2 home games v Palace and Villa!
Liverpool will have had a nice rest for the Utd game, and playing at home should see a 2-0 win
I think CIty will win it as well, I was just surprised to see them at such a short price 7 points behind united in 6th (even with 2 games in hand)
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 13, 2021, 12:34:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 12:11:25 PM
The way City are playing no 4/5 is a really decent price....
Once they have played their games in hand, that's them sorted to be in the top 2 with a better goal difference than Utd, they'll pump Brighton tonight at home, they then have another 2 home games v Palace and Villa!
Liverpool will have had a nice rest for the Utd game, and playing at home should see a 2-0 win
I think CIty will win it as well, I was just surprised to see them at such a short price 7 points behind united in 6th (even with 2 games in hand)
They are that short because they have 3 home games against two teams that have come up from the Championship lately, and Palace, who have dipped lately..
The only think that will stop City is a team in the top 5 beating them. I know they were way off the pace last year but they seem lately more organised
It's mad that United, who have been so inconsistent performance-wise are top. Sort of sums up this mediocre season. But it's exciting with only s few points separating the top 8 or 9 teams.
Still think Liverpool will win it though. I'm not convinced about City, although they'll likely finish second. The rest of the teams don't have it in them to win the title.
Quote from: BennyCake on January 13, 2021, 02:30:20 PM
It's mad that United, who have been so inconsistent performance-wise are top. Sort of sums up this mediocre season. But it's exciting with only s few points separating the top 8 or 9 teams.
Still think Liverpool will win it though. I'm not convinced about City, although they'll likely finish second. The rest of the teams don't have it in them to win the title.
Injuries will catch LFC. No CB will be bought in January and that's fatal. It wouldn't surprise me if United win it. I have always said they have a solid squad but they have been able to get consistency. They are also getting the run of things. They are getting dubious decisions in their favour moreso than other teams. That may not be the difference but helps. It will be between them and City with lfc 3rd
City starting to go quietly about there business without Aguero which I think will take them to the top. Im a Utd fan but there inconsistency will prove their downfall. Just hope their positon now can set them with a real good chance of a top 4 place.
Man United currently top is achievement in itself and will likely be a season high looking back in May. Finishing in the top 4 for the 2nd season in a row will be consistency and progress as hasn't been done since Ferguson retired. 3rd is the best place finish I foresee for United and have a big battle on their hands with Spurs, Everton, Leicester etc pushing hard for top 4 spots.
I previously had my doubts on Man City mounting a title challenge but I think they have turned a corner now, they have made themselves more difficult to beat and score against and Ruben Dias has been a huge addition to their defence. They should be top of the table by either the end of this month or early February as on paper they should win their next 6 league games.
Liverpools home form and results against the top 6 remains as good as ever. I expect them to beat City in Anfield in February a result that will push them on to retain the title, the additions of Jota, Thiago will prove to be key signings.
United have been inconsistent performance wise but very consistent result wise over the past year.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 13, 2021, 04:23:03 PM
Man United currently top is achievement in itself and will likely be a season high looking back in May. Finishing in the top 4 for the 2nd season in a row will be consistency and progress as hasn't been done since Ferguson retired. 3rd is the best place finish I foresee for United and have a big battle on their hands with Spurs, Everton, Leicester etc pushing hard for top 4 spots.
I previously had my doubts on Man City mounting a title challenge but I think they have turned a corner now, they have made themselves more difficult to beat and score against and Ruben Dias has been a huge addition to their defence. They should be top of the table by either the end of this month or early February as on paper they should win their next 6 league games.
Liverpools home form and results against the top 6 remains as good as ever. I expect them to beat City in Anfield in February a result that will push them on to retain the title, the additions of Jota, Thiago will prove to be key signings.
You're fooling no one. It's Man United's title to lose now.
Quote from: laoislad on January 13, 2021, 04:42:31 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 13, 2021, 04:23:03 PM
Man United currently top is achievement in itself and will likely be a season high looking back in May. Finishing in the top 4 for the 2nd season in a row will be consistency and progress as hasn't been done since Ferguson retired. 3rd is the best place finish I foresee for United and have a big battle on their hands with Spurs, Everton, Leicester etc pushing hard for top 4 spots.
I previously had my doubts on Man City mounting a title challenge but I think they have turned a corner now, they have made themselves more difficult to beat and score against and Ruben Dias has been a huge addition to their defence. They should be top of the table by either the end of this month or early February as on paper they should win their next 6 league games.
Liverpools home form and results against the top 6 remains as good as ever. I expect them to beat City in Anfield in February a result that will push them on to retain the title, the additions of Jota, Thiago will prove to be key signings.
You're fooling no one. It's Man United's title to lose now.
I assume you are just playing silly beggars now ::)
As a City fan I can see why we are odds on - we are coming into form.
Liverpool dont have a deep enough squad and Utd are as liable to lose 5 games in a row than win.
Saw somewhere that Pep said we are doing better because we are running less - didnt bother reading as looked like clickbait
Has Utd not picked up more points than any other team since Fernandes joined in the league? Stats now start from after BF ;)
Hardly inconsistent despite a few dodgy performances and key loses.
I'd expect the Thurs-Sunday football to fire a spanner in the works for Utd, unfortunately.
You fear for Utd this evening. Liverpool coming back into form at right time. How many Utd lads would get into pool team? Martial and Rashford overrated. Cant rely on Pogba. Liverpool will win league handy enough anyway.
Thiago cleaning our Fernando so far.
Its all set up nicely for leicester or Everton to win it
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on January 17, 2021, 08:31:51 PM
Its all set up nicely for leicester or Everton to win it
(https://i.ibb.co/fpd65k7/Screenshot-20210117-210744-2.png) (https://ibb.co/LtdjWxf)
Great incentive for Everton to knock neighbours Liverpool down to 5th by winning that match in hand.
Quote from: reillycavan on January 17, 2021, 04:03:12 PM
You fear for Utd this evening. Liverpool coming back into form at right time. How many Utd lads would get into pool team? Martial and Rashford overrated. Cant rely on Pogba. Liverpool will win league handy enough anyway.
Strange how Liverpool's keeper kept them in the match, given that you thought United would get tanked? ::)
Leicester sitting top currently ..
Plenty time in game for that to change, but they certainly have the experience and ability this year to maintain in the top four
Lampard days looks numbered at Chelsea. Upgrades in Allegri or Tuchel are available when Abramovich decides to make the change.
Frank has served his purpose. A cheap, rookie manager brought in during a transfer ban. It looked good, because Chelsea were going for a young, English manager, going with young players (he had no choice). In reality, no big man would go near it while a transfer ban was in place.
Now it'll be, so long Frank... hello [insert big manager here]... here's a pot of money!
Quote from: BennyCake on January 19, 2021, 10:56:12 PM
Frank has served his purpose. A cheap, rookie manager brought in during a transfer ban. It looked good, because Chelsea were going for a young, English manager, going with young players (he had no choice). In reality, no big man would go near it while a transfer ban was in place.
Now it'll be, so long Frank... hello [insert big manager here]... here's a pot of money!
Big Sam missed his true calling
I've watched nearly every Chelsea game since they played Wolves, they've had 2 wins since and in both games West Ham & Fulham were very unlucky. 7 points from the last 8 games with arguably the strongest squad in the league and under zero pressure from TV & Radio pundits, never seen anything like.
Quote from: BennyCake on January 19, 2021, 10:56:12 PM
Frank has served his purpose. A cheap, rookie manager brought in during a transfer ban. It looked good, because Chelsea were going for a young, English manager, going with young players (he had no choice). In reality, no big man would go near it while a transfer ban was in place.
Now it'll be, so long Frank... hello [insert big manager here]... here's a pot of money!
Frank (or someone in Chelsea) spent big enough in the last few transfer windows when the ban was removed.
One year at Derby was never enough experience for that type of job.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on January 20, 2021, 08:32:49 AM
I've watched nearly every Chelsea game since they played Wolves, they've had 2 wins since and in both games West Ham & Fulham were very unlucky. 7 points from the last 8 games with arguably the strongest squad in the league and under zero pressure from TV & Radio pundits, never seen anything like.
They are literally writing his obituaries?
Quote from: johnnycool on January 20, 2021, 10:37:00 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 19, 2021, 10:56:12 PM
Frank has served his purpose. A cheap, rookie manager brought in during a transfer ban. It looked good, because Chelsea were going for a young, English manager, going with young players (he had no choice). In reality, no big man would go near it while a transfer ban was in place.
Now it’ll be, so long Frank... hello [insert big manager here]... here’s a pot of money!
Frank (or someone in Chelsea) spent big enough in the last few transfer windows when the ban was removed.
One year at Derby was never enough experience for that type of job.
The owners of Juventus and Chelsea will be wondering right now did they get rid of Sarri too soon or at least should have replaced him with a more experienced manager.
Quote from: johnnycool on January 20, 2021, 10:37:00 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 19, 2021, 10:56:12 PM
Frank has served his purpose. A cheap, rookie manager brought in during a transfer ban. It looked good, because Chelsea were going for a young, English manager, going with young players (he had no choice). In reality, no big man would go near it while a transfer ban was in place.
Now it'll be, so long Frank... hello [insert big manager here]... here's a pot of money!
Frank (or someone in Chelsea) spent big enough in the last few transfer windows when the ban was removed.
One year at Derby was never enough experience for that type of job.
I agree with that, and I don't think Frank is nearly as good as he thinks he is, but realistically how do they get the right experience? Stevie G is going to have to go and do well with another club before he gets the Liverpool job. If you make the wrong move you end up with an Ole in Cardiff situation. He had no hope of keeping that club up but that's on his record forever and the clubs in that group, bottom end premier league top half championship, are the ones that sack managers the most. Then you have big Sam and that running around in that too.
Is Stevie G a good manager or was it just a matter of time before Celtic fell away? If Roy Keane had a chance a top team would he have less problems with players than he has had at lesser teams with average enough players? He'd probably fall with people either way but you know what I'm getting at.
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on January 20, 2021, 04:14:37 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 20, 2021, 10:37:00 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 19, 2021, 10:56:12 PM
Frank has served his purpose. A cheap, rookie manager brought in during a transfer ban. It looked good, because Chelsea were going for a young, English manager, going with young players (he had no choice). In reality, no big man would go near it while a transfer ban was in place.
Now it'll be, so long Frank... hello [insert big manager here]... here's a pot of money!
Frank (or someone in Chelsea) spent big enough in the last few transfer windows when the ban was removed.
One year at Derby was never enough experience for that type of job.
I agree with that, and I don't think Frank is nearly as good as he thinks he is, but realistically how do they get the right experience? Stevie G is going to have to go and do well with another club before he gets the Liverpool job. If you make the wrong move you end up with an Ole in Cardiff situation. He had no hope of keeping that club up but that's on his record forever and the clubs in that group, bottom end premier league top half championship, are the ones that sack managers the most. Then you have big Sam and that running around in that too.
Is Stevie G a good manager or was it just a matter of time before Celtic fell away? If Roy Keane had a chance a top team would he have less problems with players than he has had at lesser teams with average enough players? He'd probably fall with people either way but you know what I'm getting at.
I know what you're saying and its not straight forward.
Take Eddie Howe for instance, he has done what in the fullness of time be seen as a fantastic job with Bournemouth for a load of years but they got relegated on his watch and that's the stain that will work against him.
The likes of boys like Eddie probably have it harder as they've no connection with the big clubs like Roy Keane, Lampard, Gerard as players which no doubt gets you a foothold in clubs you really haven't earned the right to be coaching based solely on their playing ability.
The best is probably for those lads now is a Newcastle, WBA or Aston Villa, mid table types, do well there and move on up.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 20, 2021, 03:19:47 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on January 20, 2021, 08:32:49 AM
I've watched nearly every Chelsea game since they played Wolves, they've had 2 wins since and in both games West Ham & Fulham were very unlucky. 7 points from the last 8 games with arguably the strongest squad in the league and under zero pressure from TV & Radio pundits, never seen anything like.
They are literally writing his obituaries?
Nobody on Sky/BT/BBC has even questioned him.
City playing poor tonight . Cant see that scoring with KDB gone off. Sterling only scores when 3 or 4 nil up.
Quote from: reillycavan on January 20, 2021, 07:32:38 PM
City playing poor tonight . Cant see that scoring with KDB gone off. Sterling only scores when 3 or 4 nil up.
They should be 3 up really but as always a bit shaky at the back!
Villa aren't a bad team and are defending for their lives. Phil Foden is quality they don't know what to do when he gets the ball!!
10 yards offside isn't offside nowadays
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on January 20, 2021, 04:14:37 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 20, 2021, 10:37:00 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 19, 2021, 10:56:12 PM
Frank has served his purpose. A cheap, rookie manager brought in during a transfer ban. It looked good, because Chelsea were going for a young, English manager, going with young players (he had no choice). In reality, no big man would go near it while a transfer ban was in place.
Now it'll be, so long Frank... hello [insert big manager here]... here's a pot of money!
Frank (or someone in Chelsea) spent big enough in the last few transfer windows when the ban was removed.
One year at Derby was never enough experience for that type of job.
I agree with that, and I don't think Frank is nearly as good as he thinks he is, but realistically how do they get the right experience? Stevie G is going to have to go and do well with another club before he gets the Liverpool job. If you make the wrong move you end up with an Ole in Cardiff situation. He had no hope of keeping that club up but that's on his record forever and the clubs in that group, bottom end premier league top half championship, are the ones that sack managers the most. Then you have big Sam and that running around in that too.
Is Stevie G a good manager or was it just a matter of time before Celtic fell away? If Roy Keane had a chance a top team would he have less problems with players than he has had at lesser teams with average enough players? He'd probably fall with people either way but you know what I'm getting at.
Not a hope. He's so sociopathic and full of self-loathing that he'd fail sooner than he'd succeed. In his own mind, his players would never match the standards he set as a player; like Glenn Hoddle, but without the passing ability.
Quote from: screenexile on January 20, 2021, 07:34:09 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on January 20, 2021, 07:32:38 PM
City playing poor tonight . Cant see that scoring with KDB gone off. Sterling only scores when 3 or 4 nil up.
They should be 3 up really but as always a bit shaky at the back!
Villa aren't a bad team and are defending for their lives. Phil Foden is quality they don't know what to do when he gets the ball!!
Best defence in the league at the minute, conceded 2 goals in their last 10 games
Quote from: laoislad on January 20, 2021, 07:54:08 PM
So how the f**k is that first City goal allowed???
Can an attacking player be offside when a defender is playing the ball?
Quote from: maldini on January 20, 2021, 11:52:44 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 20, 2021, 07:34:09 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on January 20, 2021, 07:32:38 PM
City playing poor tonight . Cant see that scoring with KDB gone off. Sterling only scores when 3 or 4 nil up.
They should be 3 up really but as always a bit shaky at the back!
Villa aren't a bad team and are defending for their lives. Phil Foden is quality they don't know what to do when he gets the ball!!
Best defence in the league at the minute, conceded 2 goals in their last 10 games
Such a record didn't come cheap. Manchester City so lucky a sugar daddy chose them.
(https://i.ibb.co/5Yr1zL9/Screenshot-20201004-145550-2.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 21, 2021, 12:24:31 AM
Quote from: maldini on January 20, 2021, 11:52:44 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 20, 2021, 07:34:09 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on January 20, 2021, 07:32:38 PM
City playing poor tonight . Cant see that scoring with KDB gone off. Sterling only scores when 3 or 4 nil up.
They should be 3 up really but as always a bit shaky at the back!
Villa aren't a bad team and are defending for their lives. Phil Foden is quality they don't know what to do when he gets the ball!!
Best defence in the league at the minute, conceded 2 goals in their last 10 games
Such a record didn't come cheap. Manchester City so lucky a sugar daddy chose them.
(https://i.ibb.co/5Yr1zL9/Screenshot-20201004-145550-2.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
And you didn't count the 2 keepers, Bravo and Ederson, in that - another 50 or so on that I think
It's such a GAA thing to talk about what team spends money ;D
They all do, even the fairy-tale Leicester were done for breach of FFP to get into the Premier League.
Does anyone in this thread actually have anything positive to say about any team?
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 21, 2021, 12:11:29 AM
Quote from: laoislad on January 20, 2021, 07:54:08 PM
So how the f**k is that first City goal allowed???
Can an attacking player be offside when a defender is playing the ball?
That was a strange goal and I'd be pissed if it was against Utd but by Christ Tyrone Mings is the most overrated footballer bar none. He's absolutely terrible. Against Utd earlier in the year he was dire and he hasn't got any better. I just don't get the hype.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 21, 2021, 12:11:29 AM
Quote from: laoislad on January 20, 2021, 07:54:08 PM
So how the f**k is that first City goal allowed???
Can an attacking player be offside when a defender is playing the ball?
I'm guessing they'll have to clarify the new rule but for me it's 100% offside and can see why Smith was so enraged.
Mings doesn't have the ball under control yet when challenged. The rule states about a player playing the ball and the guy in offside position thus receiving it, so I'd interpret that as an intercepted pass being ok. But Mings hasn't played the ball for me, he is trying to get it under control.
Plus Rodri moves in a good 10 yards to be on top of Mings and be in an optimal position from when the ball is first headed in, so for me he has involved himself in the play from the off.
Man City will of course say all fair in love and war and interpret the word "played" as the moment the ball touches Mings.
It's one of those loopholes which will need addressing but I think it at least deserved a VAR review at the time and giving all interpretations due consideration. That's probably adding to Villa's ire and the consequent heavy handed attitude of the referee.
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2021, 10:41:45 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 21, 2021, 12:11:29 AM
Quote from: laoislad on January 20, 2021, 07:54:08 PM
So how the f**k is that first City goal allowed???
Can an attacking player be offside when a defender is playing the ball?
That was a strange goal and I'd be pissed if it was against Utd but by Christ Tyrone Mings is the most overrated footballer bar none. He's absolutely terrible. Against Utd earlier in the year he was dire and he hasn't got any better. I just don't get the hype.
In his defence it was that type of high ball that was always going to take a second touch to get under control. He would have thought he had loads of time and to be fair it wasn't that bad of first touch but was unlucky that he chose to go that side with it. As soon as he turns to get his second touch on it Rodri comes into his field of vision and he panics and messes up a bit.
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2021, 10:41:45 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 21, 2021, 12:11:29 AM
Quote from: laoislad on January 20, 2021, 07:54:08 PM
So how the f**k is that first City goal allowed???
Can an attacking player be offside when a defender is playing the ball?
That was a strange goal and I'd be pissed if it was against Utd but by Christ Tyrone Mings is the most overrated footballer bar none. He's absolutely terrible. Against Utd earlier in the year he was dire and he hasn't got any better. I just don't get the hype.
What hype?
He's a mid table quality player at a mid table club.
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2021, 10:41:45 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 21, 2021, 12:11:29 AM
Quote from: laoislad on January 20, 2021, 07:54:08 PM
So how the f**k is that first City goal allowed???
Can an attacking player be offside when a defender is playing the ball?
That was a strange goal and I'd be pissed if it was against Utd but by Christ Tyrone Mings is the most overrated footballer bar none. He's absolutely terrible. Against Utd earlier in the year he was dire and he hasn't got any better. I just don't get the hype.
I don't really know where you are seeing this hype. Incidentally I thought he was excellent in the game last night. However, there is always a mistake in the lad as he becomes very casual at times.
He's an England international!
So was Seth Johnson
Quote from: lurganblue on January 21, 2021, 12:13:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2021, 10:41:45 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 21, 2021, 12:11:29 AM
Quote from: laoislad on January 20, 2021, 07:54:08 PM
So how the f**k is that first City goal allowed???
Can an attacking player be offside when a defender is playing the ball?
That was a strange goal and I'd be pissed if it was against Utd but by Christ Tyrone Mings is the most overrated footballer bar none. He's absolutely terrible. Against Utd earlier in the year he was dire and he hasn't got any better. I just don't get the hype.
I don't really know where you are seeing this hype. Incidentally I thought he was excellent in the game last night. However, there is always a mistake in the lad as he becomes very casual at times.
His first name has got him places in his career.
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 21, 2021, 10:57:12 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2021, 10:41:45 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 21, 2021, 12:11:29 AM
Quote from: laoislad on January 20, 2021, 07:54:08 PM
So how the f**k is that first City goal allowed???
Can an attacking player be offside when a defender is playing the ball?
That was a strange goal and I'd be pissed if it was against Utd but by Christ Tyrone Mings is the most overrated footballer bar none. He's absolutely terrible. Against Utd earlier in the year he was dire and he hasn't got any better. I just don't get the hype.
In his defence it was that type of high ball that was always going to take a second touch to get under control. He would have thought he had loads of time and to be fair it wasn't that bad of first touch but was unlucky that he chose to go that side with it. As soon as he turns to get his second touch on it Rodri comes into his field of vision and he panics and messes up a bit.
I don't think that playing the ball has been interpreted in a long time as having it under control. There have been plenty of slow motion replays of goals given where the scorer was only onside because the pass to him took a slight deflection from a defender before reaching the scorer.
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2021, 12:27:54 PM
He's an England international!
Yet is getting hyped by nobody. Most commentators that I have heard have rightfully put his place in the England team down to him being left footed.
It is quite clear that the England manager wants a left footed centre half playing, rather than two right footers. If Mings was right footed he would not be making the England squad. You won't find any Villa fan who thinks Mings is in the top 6 qualified English centre halfs currently playing. In saying that he is decent, for the level Villa are at. If Villa can build further and want to make a serious push for top 4, he will be replaced. Hard to see them keeping 8 clean sheets in 16 without him being somewhat competent though. Although we can't give Mings any credit for the Palace clean sheet.
Quote from: shark on January 21, 2021, 01:19:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2021, 12:27:54 PM
He's an England international!
Yet is getting hyped by nobody. Most commentators that I have heard have rightfully put his place in the England team down to him being left footed.
It is quite clear that the England manager wants a left footed centre half playing, rather than two right footers. If Mings was right footed he would not be making the England squad. You won't find any Villa fan who thinks Mings is in the top 6 qualified English centre halfs currently playing. In saying that he is decent, for the level Villa are at. If Villa can build further and want to make a serious push for top 4, he will be replaced. Hard to see them keeping 8 clean sheets in 16 without him being somewhat competent though. Although we can't give Mings any credit for the Palace clean sheet.
He's not a PL footballer. He's definitely not an England international. We're arguing over is he "hyped". I'll rephrase if it helps. He's f**king shite.
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2021, 03:10:12 PM
Quote from: shark on January 21, 2021, 01:19:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2021, 12:27:54 PM
He's an England international!
Yet is getting hyped by nobody. Most commentators that I have heard have rightfully put his place in the England team down to him being left footed.
It is quite clear that the England manager wants a left footed centre half playing, rather than two right footers. If Mings was right footed he would not be making the England squad. You won't find any Villa fan who thinks Mings is in the top 6 qualified English centre halfs currently playing. In saying that he is decent, for the level Villa are at. If Villa can build further and want to make a serious push for top 4, he will be replaced. Hard to see them keeping 8 clean sheets in 16 without him being somewhat competent though. Although we can't give Mings any credit for the Palace clean sheet.
He's not a PL footballer. He's definitely not an England international. We're arguing over is he "hyped". I'll rephrase if it helps. He's f**king shite.
Thanks for clarifying. He certainly has mistakes in him, and given his age I don't see him improving from his current level. However he objectively is a premier league footballer and an England international. Your opinion doesn't change that. I would argue that you're holding him to the standard of top 6 team's players. He wouldn't get in those teams. However there are 20 teams in the premier league. They don't all have Van Dijk, Dias or Fofana playing centre half. Villa's defensive record is excellent, especially for a team who rarely plays defensively (last night they did, of course). He has been an integral part of that.
Think yer arguing with yourself at this stage Trailer.
The fact is yer wrong on yer first two points and these can easily be disproven. The bar for eng centre halves isnt terribly high these days but hes there. Hes not shite nor is he brilliant. Nor has rhere been any hype
This argument is along the lines of my 11yr old whereby unless yer a van dijk or a laporte the next level down is "shite". But hes 11 and i hope he learns in time
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2021, 03:10:12 PM
Quote from: shark on January 21, 2021, 01:19:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2021, 12:27:54 PM
He's an England international!
Yet is getting hyped by nobody. Most commentators that I have heard have rightfully put his place in the England team down to him being left footed.
It is quite clear that the England manager wants a left footed centre half playing, rather than two right footers. If Mings was right footed he would not be making the England squad. You won't find any Villa fan who thinks Mings is in the top 6 qualified English centre halfs currently playing. In saying that he is decent, for the level Villa are at. If Villa can build further and want to make a serious push for top 4, he will be replaced. Hard to see them keeping 8 clean sheets in 16 without him being somewhat competent though. Although we can't give Mings any credit for the Palace clean sheet.
He's not a PL footballer. He's definitely not an England international. We're arguing over is he "hyped". I'll rephrase if it helps. He's f**king shite.
Like Mica Richards hype? I love the way Roy reeled him in one day on Sky sports.....
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on January 21, 2021, 03:28:39 PM
This argument is along the lines of my 11yr old whereby unless yer a van dijk or a laporte the next level down is "shite". But hes 11 and i hope he learns in time
You have hit the nail on the head there, a lot of the lazy analysis on places like this is brilliant/shite :). Most of Man Utds squad have been labelled on here as shite and not just by opposition fans. In my opinion they do a passable job as Premier League players (most of the time)
Everyones been shite in here, Klopp, Pep, Ole, Lampard, Arteta
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 21, 2021, 01:19:02 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 21, 2021, 10:57:12 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2021, 10:41:45 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 21, 2021, 12:11:29 AM
Quote from: laoislad on January 20, 2021, 07:54:08 PM
So how the f**k is that first City goal allowed???
Can an attacking player be offside when a defender is playing the ball?
That was a strange goal and I'd be pissed if it was against Utd but by Christ Tyrone Mings is the most overrated footballer bar none. He's absolutely terrible. Against Utd earlier in the year he was dire and he hasn't got any better. I just don't get the hype.
In his defence it was that type of high ball that was always going to take a second touch to get under control. He would have thought he had loads of time and to be fair it wasn't that bad of first touch but was unlucky that he chose to go that side with it. As soon as he turns to get his second touch on it Rodri comes into his field of vision and he panics and messes up a bit.
I don't think that playing the ball has been interpreted in a long time as having it under control. There have been plenty of slow motion replays of goals given where the scorer was only onside because the pass to him took a slight deflection from a defender before reaching the scorer.
"A player in an offside position
receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage,
unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent".
That's the rule as best I can make out.
a) Rodri didn't receive the ball, he tackled Mings while trying to control the ball
b) You cannot gain advantage from a blocked shot
I'd agree it's a very grey area but it's not as clear cut as getting a touch off defender and all rules are off. For me the rule implies a deflected pass coming into the attackers path, not the attacker actively going to challenge and win the ball. So it's offside all day long by my interpretation.
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 21, 2021, 05:03:56 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 21, 2021, 01:19:02 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 21, 2021, 10:57:12 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2021, 10:41:45 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 21, 2021, 12:11:29 AM
Quote from: laoislad on January 20, 2021, 07:54:08 PM
So how the f**k is that first City goal allowed???
Can an attacking player be offside when a defender is playing the ball?
That was a strange goal and I'd be pissed if it was against Utd but by Christ Tyrone Mings is the most overrated footballer bar none. He's absolutely terrible. Against Utd earlier in the year he was dire and he hasn't got any better. I just don't get the hype.
In his defence it was that type of high ball that was always going to take a second touch to get under control. He would have thought he had loads of time and to be fair it wasn't that bad of first touch but was unlucky that he chose to go that side with it. As soon as he turns to get his second touch on it Rodri comes into his field of vision and he panics and messes up a bit.
I don't think that playing the ball has been interpreted in a long time as having it under control. There have been plenty of slow motion replays of goals given where the scorer was only onside because the pass to him took a slight deflection from a defender before reaching the scorer.
"A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent".
That's the rule as best I can make out.
a) Rodri didn't receive the ball, he tackled Mings while trying to control the ball
b) You cannot gain advantage from a blocked shot
I'd agree it's a very grey area but it's not as clear cut as getting a touch off defender and all rules are off. For me the rule implies a deflected pass coming into the attackers path, not the attacker actively going to challenge and win the ball. So it's offside all day long by my interpretation.
Given your interpretation, yes, it would be offside, but I don't see that the bolded bit above has the implication you read into it.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 21, 2021, 05:48:39 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 21, 2021, 05:03:56 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 21, 2021, 01:19:02 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 21, 2021, 10:57:12 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2021, 10:41:45 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 21, 2021, 12:11:29 AM
Quote from: laoislad on January 20, 2021, 07:54:08 PM
So how the f**k is that first City goal allowed???
Can an attacking player be offside when a defender is playing the ball?
That was a strange goal and I'd be pissed if it was against Utd but by Christ Tyrone Mings is the most overrated footballer bar none. He's absolutely terrible. Against Utd earlier in the year he was dire and he hasn't got any better. I just don't get the hype.
In his defence it was that type of high ball that was always going to take a second touch to get under control. He would have thought he had loads of time and to be fair it wasn't that bad of first touch but was unlucky that he chose to go that side with it. As soon as he turns to get his second touch on it Rodri comes into his field of vision and he panics and messes up a bit.
I don't think that playing the ball has been interpreted in a long time as having it under control. There have been plenty of slow motion replays of goals given where the scorer was only onside because the pass to him took a slight deflection from a defender before reaching the scorer.
"A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent".
That's the rule as best I can make out.
a) Rodri didn't receive the ball, he tackled Mings while trying to control the ball
b) You cannot gain advantage from a blocked shot
I'd agree it's a very grey area but it's not as clear cut as getting a touch off defender and all rules are off. For me the rule implies a deflected pass coming into the attackers path, not the attacker actively going to challenge and win the ball. So it's offside all day long by my interpretation.
Given your interpretation, yes, it would be offside, but I don't see that the bolded bit above has the implication you read into it.
I understand it can be read other ways but that's how I read it. Rodri was onto the track of that ball as soon as it was headed in by team mate. He covered well over 10 yards before Mings touched it.
Long and short of it the rule needs urgent addressing and rewording/clarification. Leaving it to be interpreted as it was last night makes a whole farce out of the offside rule.
The rule definitely needs to be looked at, I'd agree. The whole point of offside is to prevent attacking players from gaining an unfair advantage by (e.g.) goal hanging. I would think that this kind of goal is the kind of goal offside should disallow.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 21, 2021, 07:48:35 PM
The rule definitely needs to be looked at, I'd agree. The whole point of offside is to prevent attacking players from gaining an unfair advantage by (e.g.) goal hanging. I would think that this kind of goal is the kind of goal offside should disallow.
He wasn't goal hanging though he ran back and won the ball off a defender who wasn't sure of his touch. I've no problem with that kind of goal at all it's not like he's 20 yards past the defence in a one on one.
Would fear for Burnley. 5 0 to the pool. Origi to score hat trick
Quote from: screenexile on January 21, 2021, 07:59:41 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 21, 2021, 07:48:35 PM
The rule definitely needs to be looked at, I'd agree. The whole point of offside is to prevent attacking players from gaining an unfair advantage by (e.g.) goal hanging. I would think that this kind of goal is the kind of goal offside should disallow.
He wasn't goal hanging though he ran back and won the ball off a defender who wasn't sure of his touch. I've no problem with that kind of goal at all it's not like he's 20 yards past the defence in a one on one.
I know he wasn't goal hanging, SE, but he did gain an advantage from being miles offside.
How many minutes now is it?
How does Mane get away with pushing opponents in every single game and all the diving at the slightest contact
Quote from: reillycavan on January 21, 2021, 08:01:04 PM
Would fear for Burnley. 5 0 to the pool. Origi to score hat trick
:o
Liverpool have not scored in FOUR games, America have had TWO Presidents in that time
Everton have won nothing since 1995. America have had 5 Presidents since then.
Quote from: laoislad on January 21, 2021, 10:13:49 PM
Everton have won nothing since 1995. America have had 5 Presidents since then.
🔥
Are the "mentality monsters" finished?
Quote from: laoislad on January 21, 2021, 10:13:49 PM
Everton have won nothing since 1995. America have had 5 Presidents since then.
Five US presidents have played top flight UK football since 1995. Name them.
Francis Jefferson?
James Madison Leicester,
John Kennedy Celtic
Washington the Charlton lad?
Andrew Johnson Sunderland and the prison 11
Quote from: ONeill on January 21, 2021, 10:59:28 PM
Washington the Charlton lad?
No but there was a George Washington Elliott who played for Middlesbrough a century ago:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Elliott_(footballer,_born_1889)
There was a Jimmy Carter at Arsenal
The following are not answers:
Dwight Yorke Eisenhower
Leighton Baines Johnson
Bill Clinton Morrison
Carter, Madison, Andrew Johnson and Kennedy are correct.
The asthma exemptions must be wearing off
Bound to have been a John Adams at some stage.
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 21, 2021, 11:47:06 PM
Bound to have been a John Adams at some stage.
There was Adam Johnson but no John Adams
Andrew Johnson and Andrew Jackson?
Dwight D Eisenhower, centre half for Sheffield Wednesday, 3 appearances in the 97-98 sesson.
Thats a guess.
Billy McKinlay
KDB out for 4/6 weeks - along with Foden they have been outstanding in recent weeks.
PL is not a foregone conclusion yet as I feel we will struggle for creativity with KDB
Quote from: Taylor on January 22, 2021, 03:55:34 PM
KDB out for 4/6 weeks - along with Foden they have been outstanding in recent weeks.
PL is not a foregone conclusion yet as I feel we will struggle for creativity with KDB
One look at the table at now the half way stage would tell anyone that.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 22, 2021, 04:20:23 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 22, 2021, 03:55:34 PM
KDB out for 4/6 weeks - along with Foden they have been outstanding in recent weeks.
PL is not a foregone conclusion yet as I feel we will struggle for creativity with KDB
One look at the table at now the half way stage would tell anyone that.
One look at the bookies odds would tell you otherwise
Paddy Power
Man City 2/5
Man Utd 11/2
Liverpool 5/2
Leicester 19/1
Tottenham 25/1
Chelsea 125/1
At this pace 80 points will win the league which is really astounding.
Quote from: Taylor on January 22, 2021, 04:49:39 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 22, 2021, 04:20:23 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 22, 2021, 03:55:34 PM
KDB out for 4/6 weeks - along with Foden they have been outstanding in recent weeks.
PL is not a foregone conclusion yet as I feel we will struggle for creativity with KDB
One look at the table at now the half way stage would tell anyone that.
One look at the bookies odds would tell you otherwise
Remind me what was the bookies odds on Leicester City was to win the Premier league before the 2015/16 season.
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 22, 2021, 05:22:18 PM
At this pace 80 points will win the league which is really astounding.
Yeah, on track to be the lowest winning total for a decade. 80 points wouldn't even have got you second for most of those years. Good to see, this sort of season is always much more interesting.
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 22, 2021, 05:22:18 PM
At this pace 80 points will win the league which is really astounding.
The points tally of the previous 2 or 3 seasons was not sustainable. Over the history of the Premier League the average points for winning the league was 86. This year's winner should get between 82-85 points which is bang on that average.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 22, 2021, 05:22:31 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 22, 2021, 04:49:39 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 22, 2021, 04:20:23 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 22, 2021, 03:55:34 PM
KDB out for 4/6 weeks - along with Foden they have been outstanding in recent weeks.
PL is not a foregone conclusion yet as I feel we will struggle for creativity with KDB
One look at the table at now the half way stage would tell anyone that.
One look at the bookies odds would tell you otherwise
Remind me what was the bookies odds on Leicester City was to win the Premier league before the 2015/16 season.
5000/1 before the season began - so August time.
We are now coming towards the end of January - the current odds of 2/5 tell you more than looking at the table
Quote from: Taylor on January 22, 2021, 06:41:14 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 22, 2021, 05:22:31 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 22, 2021, 04:49:39 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 22, 2021, 04:20:23 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 22, 2021, 03:55:34 PM
KDB out for 4/6 weeks - along with Foden they have been outstanding in recent weeks.
PL is not a foregone conclusion yet as I feel we will struggle for creativity with KDB
One look at the table at now the half way stage would tell anyone that.
One look at the bookies odds would tell you otherwise
Remind me what was the bookies odds on Leicester City was to win the Premier league before the 2015/16 season.
5000/1 before the season began - so August time.
We are now coming towards the end of January - the current odds of 2/5 tell you more than looking at the table
This season didn't start until mid September. 19 games is normally towards the end of December. The end of January in the 2015/16 season Manchester City was favourites to win the title they ended up 4th ahead of their Manchester neighbours on goal difference.
The current table tells us the title race is and was before De Bruyne injury far from a foregone conclusion.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 22, 2021, 07:36:05 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 22, 2021, 06:41:14 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 22, 2021, 05:22:31 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 22, 2021, 04:49:39 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 22, 2021, 04:20:23 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 22, 2021, 03:55:34 PM
KDB out for 4/6 weeks - along with Foden they have been outstanding in recent weeks.
PL is not a foregone conclusion yet as I feel we will struggle for creativity with KDB
One look at the table at now the half way stage would tell anyone that.
One look at the bookies odds would tell you otherwise
Remind me what was the bookies odds on Leicester City was to win the Premier league before the 2015/16 season.
5000/1 before the season began - so August time.
We are now coming towards the end of January - the current odds of 2/5 tell you more than looking at the table
This season didn't start until mid September. 19 games is normally towards the end of December. The end of January in the 2015/16 season Manchester City was favourites to win the title they ended up 4th ahead of their Manchester neighbours on goal difference.
The current table tells us the title race is and was before De Bruyne injury far from a foregone conclusion.
Well I bow down to your superior knowledge.
If you can get me 2/1 on City to win the league (or maybe even someone so knowledgeable as yourself would be confident of giving that price) then I will certainly have an interest in it.
Do come back to me
Ah feck, Frank Lampard is getting sacked today. All the fun is being sucked out of sport. I wish football management was like politics where failing managers had limp on to the end of a fixed four year term.
Anyway, thanks for the entertainment, Frank. 18 months of tremendous fun. And definitely a ready made replacement for Guardiola at Manchester City when the time comes.
Disappointed to hear he's getting sacked, they were going nowhere under him.
That's a very talented Chelsea squad that should have a lot more points.
Lampard is getting sacked because they bought a load of players who refuse to run. They don't cover near enough yards.
I'd say Lampard is getting sacked because each of his bountiful signings have fallen off the cliff.
Which suggests either the players hate him, or hate his tactics, or both.
Any quick way, it will be cheaper and more effective to replace him than the players.
Poor old Mason Mount will be heartbroken.
The man in charge of signings at Chelsea needs to go as well. They are crying out for another centre half and a central striker and they go and spend over £150m on 2 wingers and an attacking midfielder when they already have an abundance of them.
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 25, 2021, 11:08:12 AM
The man in charge of signings at Chelsea needs to go as well. They are crying out for another centre half and a central striker and they go and spend over £150m on 2 wingers and an attacking midfielder when they already have an abundance of them.
You assume he's operating independently of the manager though.
Anyhow Lampard was handed one of the best free roaming 10s in the world in Werner, the type of player a club can be built around, and then stapled him to the left wing. Why? Only he knows.
I expect Guus Hiddink to be wheeled in any minute now.
Don't understand the timing of it more than anything. Why not do it immediately after the defeat at Leicester on Tuesday instead of keeping him on to manage in the cup?
Cut throat from Chelsea. They don't mess around.
Tuchel is the next in. They actually aren't all that far behind....new manager bounce....they couldn't, could they?
If he is a roaming 10 then what is Havertz and where do you play him for Chelsea ? He initially played Werner centrally and it didn't work and he naturally gravitates to the left anyway so coming in from the left is probably his best position imo. His confidence is shot atm though. Where does he play for Germany out of interest ?
Who are the free roaming 10s that you speak of ?
Il give Tuchel 18 mths before he is gone as well. I personally would have tried to get Ancelotti back.
Quote from: Rich Ricci on January 25, 2021, 11:39:58 AM
Don't understand the timing of it more than anything. Why not do it immediately after the defeat at Leicester on Tuesday instead of keeping him on to manage in the cup?
Maybe they were waiting until they knew they had Tuchel in the bag.
Quote from: shark on January 25, 2021, 11:44:02 AM
Quote from: Rich Ricci on January 25, 2021, 11:39:58 AM
Don't understand the timing of it more than anything. Why not do it immediately after the defeat at Leicester on Tuesday instead of keeping him on to manage in the cup?
Maybe they were waiting until they knew they had Tuchel in the bag.
I'd agree although think he might have gone Friday morning if they'd had a league game instead of playing a cup game.
So much shite talked about with Lampard, Chelsea have 69 points from the last 45 league games; He inherited a talented squad and added top youngsters in James, Mount and Abraham. Had plenty of options all over the pitch and wasn't carrying any player who were well out of their depth which Ole had to do.
Sure Lampard is gone now then.
Who is next? Someone needs to be sacked.
I'd love to see Chelsea appoint a Dennis Wise/Vinnie Jones coaching ticket.
Authenticity is everything.
Think you have bigger problems Sid, Klopp looks to be the next useless manager in this thread.
Quote from: sid waddell on January 25, 2021, 02:39:07 PM
I'd love to see Chelsea appoint a Dennis Wise/Vinnie Jones coaching ticket.
Authenticity is everything.
I've no love for Chelsea, but even I wouldn't wish that on them! A hateful wee p***k, on and off the pitch.
Quote from: Rich Ricci on January 25, 2021, 11:39:58 AM
Don't understand the timing of it more than anything. Why not do it immediately after the defeat at Leicester on Tuesday instead of keeping him on to manage in the cup?
Simply they didn't want to miss out on Tuchel. If PSG hadn't sacked him then I doubt they would've, but in order to secure him for next year they moved now.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 25, 2021, 11:40:14 AM
Cut throat from Chelsea. They don't mess around.
Tuchel is the next in. They actually aren't all that far behind....new manager bounce....they couldn't, could they?
Roman Abramovich remains ruthless. With all the money that was spent on signings last summer on top of already strong squad it was clear he expected a title challenge at least this season. Instead Lampard who couldn't handle the pressure to succeed has left Chelsea 9th and 11 points off the top.
Tuchel a big upgrade on Lampard however if he doesn't reach the expectations of Mr Abramovich he won't last more than two seasons either.
Wouldn't expect Tuchel to last more than a season.
I think back to all the claims that Tyrone wouldn't be able to keep their run going when they arrived on the scene due to the high intensity that they played with, is the same possibly going to happen with Liverpool? Is there a pattern emerging with Klopp sides? Took a few years to get Dortmund to the top but then they started to tumble.
They have been playing at a very high level now for 3 years so it was kind to catch up. I'd say Son and Kane can't wait to get a go at that defence.
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 25, 2021, 07:49:35 PM
I think back to all the claims that Tyrone wouldn't be able to keep their run going when they arrived on the scene due to the high intensity that they played with, is the same possibly going to happen with Liverpool? Is there a pattern emerging with Klopp sides? Took a few years to get Dortmund to the top but then they started to tumble.
Its a season quite literally like no other. Very little pre season or rest. One season merged into another. It's been trial and error.
Liverpools game stripped back...is based on intensity, it's hard to ask that every 3 days really. They've had injuries but that's what I meant a few pages ago when there was calls for Pep to be sacked, Lampard.....Mourinho went through a month without a win. It's a strange, strange season. You have to forgive clubs for not cracking the code when it's been thrust on them but it has led to the most interesting midway point we could imagine.
Lampard obviously was learning on the job but outside factors are massive. Is Klopp only a 5 point manager better than Lampard? Absolutely not, but that's the way the table sits right now. They are all getting it tough, the league winner this year will possibly be the record lowest points.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 25, 2021, 08:52:44 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 25, 2021, 07:49:35 PM
I think back to all the claims that Tyrone wouldn't be able to keep their run going when they arrived on the scene due to the high intensity that they played with, is the same possibly going to happen with Liverpool? Is there a pattern emerging with Klopp sides? Took a few years to get Dortmund to the top but then they started to tumble.
Its a season quite literally like no other. Very little pre season or rest. One season merged into another. It's been trial and error.
Liverpools game stripped back...is based on intensity, it's hard to ask that every 3 days really. They've had injuries but that's what I meant a few pages ago when there was calls for Pep to be sacked, Lampard.....Mourinho went through a month without a win. It's a strange, strange season. You have to forgive clubs for not cracking the code when it's been thrust on them but it has led to the most interesting midway point we could imagine.
Lampard obviously was learning on the job but outside factors are massive. Is Klopp only a 5 point manager better than Lampard? Absolutely not, but that's the way the table sits right now. They are all getting it tough, the league winner this year will possibly be the record lowest points.
It's very difficult to keep that level of intensity up with the same players. City crashed last year and Liverpool were a year behind them when you think about it. I listened to a guy at the start of the season talking about it, he had some other reasons for it but I'd take that with a pinch of salt. Ferguson's best teams needed to be changed after 3 or 4 years. He did that pretty ruthlessly in his time, Klopp doesn't seem like that and Liverpool don't seem to be pushing another big spend to change things up.
It's like the hurling. Hard to maintain the intensity for the 2 in a row. Liverpool should win it handy next year.
Rules changing midseason...
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jan/26/premier-league-change-offside-guidance-after-outcry-at-silvas-goal (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jan/26/premier-league-change-offside-guidance-after-outcry-at-silvas-goal)
West Ham are flying it recently
Delighted for Moyes as it goes. It didn't work for him at United but think he copped a lot of unnecessary flak in the years after it. He did a good job at Everton over a prolonged period...
City 4 up and top of the league! They'll get another 4 at this rate
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 09:03:00 PM
City 4 up and top of the league! They'll get another 4 at this rate
They are flying but West Brom are a poor side.
Quote from: GJL on January 26, 2021, 09:04:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 09:03:00 PM
City 4 up and top of the league! They'll get another 4 at this rate
They are flying but West Brom are a poor side.
Granted, Brom have been poor all season but every attack looks like it'll bring a goal.
Those players will sleep tonight
Quote from: GJL on January 26, 2021, 09:04:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 09:03:00 PM
City 4 up and top of the league! They'll get another 4 at this rate
They are flying but West Brom are a poor side.
Big Sam methods are outdated. He will be gone before the season ends.
Who is more past their best Mourinho or Bale?
Bale
What's up with Bale? Body done just?
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 28, 2021, 10:02:08 PM
Who is more past their best Mourinho or Bale?
Jesus but the defending was dire. Loris for the 2nd. Just palm it round the post man. And then the 3rd one, just boot it. Awful.
Quote from: trailer on January 28, 2021, 10:53:04 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 28, 2021, 10:02:08 PM
Who is more past their best Mourinho or Bale?
Jesus but the defending was dire. Loris for the 2nd. Just palm it round the post man. And then the 3rd one, just boot it. Awful.
Mourinho placing his trust in defenders such as Eric Dier is bizarre. Liverpool have a number of midfielders that are better at centre back than him.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 28, 2021, 11:07:27 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 28, 2021, 10:53:04 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 28, 2021, 10:02:08 PM
Who is more past their best Mourinho or Bale?
Jesus but the defending was dire. Loris for the 2nd. Just palm it round the post man. And then the 3rd one, just boot it. Awful.
Mourinho placing his trust in defenders such as Eric Dier is bizarre. Liverpool have a number of midfielders that are better at centre back than him.
doubt Liverpool would have given Mourinho any of their players to play against them
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 28, 2021, 11:07:27 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 28, 2021, 10:53:04 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 28, 2021, 10:02:08 PM
Who is more past their best Mourinho or Bale?
Jesus but the defending was dire. Loris for the 2nd. Just palm it round the post man. And then the 3rd one, just boot it. Awful.
Mourinho placing his trust in defenders such as Eric Dier is bizarre. Liverpool have a number of midfielders that are better at centre back than him.
If you invite the amount of pressure on your defence as Mourinhos tactics do then mistakes are inevitable. Spurs are horrible to watch.
Quote from: GJL on January 25, 2021, 08:04:42 PM
They have been playing at a very high level now for 3 years so it was kind to catch up. I'd say Son and Kane can't wait to get a go at that defence.
How did they get on with that?
If it hadnt been for Hjoeberg it wouldve been 0 3....
#neverforget
Great win for Newcastle there against Everton. manfromdelmonte and Sheedy will
be quiet for a bit now.
For all the money Everton and bringing in a so called top manager. Everton will never be a top side . Club is a retirement home.
Quote from: laoislad on January 30, 2021, 02:24:52 PM
Great win for Newcastle there against Everton. manfromdelmonte and Sheedy will
be quiet for a bit now.
woeful from start to finish. ancellotti's comments that newcastle wanted it more are spot on and thats the worst thing about todays performance. unfortunately seamus colemans days are numbered, offers nothing nowadays.
Quote from: laoislad on January 30, 2021, 02:24:52 PM
Great win for Newcastle there against Everton. manfromdelmonte and Sheedy will
be quiet for a bit now.
Not surprised tbh
Very poor v Leicester
Everton are notorious for giving struggling sides a chance to turn things around
Ancelotti is still getting rid of a lot of junk players
Arsenal a good bet for top 4. Man Utd are average side. Poor league when they in second place.
Lacazette more lying time on the ground than standing up.
The VAR officials are afraid to give handball penalties these days. Cash of Villa had a blatant handball blocking/saving a shot overlooked by var.
Good luck to anyman gets a treble up on EPL league teams this year. Crazy season so far.
Quote from: Capt Pat on January 30, 2021, 08:26:47 PM
The VAR officials are afraid to give handball penalties these days. Cash of Villa had a blatant handball blocking/saving a shot overlooked by var.
Aye it was a joke. Defo a pen. Their goal ruled out for offside was awful too. Ings had an armpit ahead of Cash's ass.
Quote from: lurganblue on February 01, 2021, 10:45:38 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on January 30, 2021, 08:26:47 PM
The VAR officials are afraid to give handball penalties these days. Cash of Villa had a blatant handball blocking/saving a shot overlooked by var.
Aye it was a joke. Defo a pen. Their goal ruled out for offside was awful too. Ings had an armpit ahead of Cash's ass.
So much for VAR getting rid of inconsistencies :-\
https://www.ft.com/content/546acfd3-d646-45a0-b9bc-e0041c06114b
When 18-year-old Amad Diallo moved from Italy's Atalanta to England's Manchester United on New Year's Day, the £37m signing became the first move of this January's football transfer window. But Premier League clubs have made just four other permanent signings since then, during what has been a frenzied period in past years for big money transfers in English football's top division. The lack of activity before the window shuts on Monday is due to twin factors rocking the game: the financial crisis caused by the coronavirus pandemic and post-Brexit immigration rules making it tougher to complete transfers. "The pandemic has been the big thing [as] clubs are reluctant to spend money now and a lot don't have it," said Jonathan Barnett, co-founder of ICM Stellar Sports, the agency that represents stars such as Tottenham Hotspur's Gareth Bale and Chelsea's Ben Chilwell. "As for Brexit, it has affected things. The quality of certain players wasn't high enough to come into the country . . . so a lot of smaller deals probably haven't been done." Lockdowns have left teams bereft of match-day revenue. Each month without fans equates to £100m in lost ticket sales across English football, according to the Premier League. Last season broadcasters also clawed back rebates worth £330m to cover the four-month period from March last year when fixtures were suspended.
Quote from: seafoid on February 01, 2021, 03:47:07 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/546acfd3-d646-45a0-b9bc-e0041c06114b
When 18-year-old Amad Diallo moved from Italy's Atalanta to England's Manchester United on New Year's Day, the £37m signing became the first move of this January's football transfer window. But Premier League clubs have made just four other permanent signings since then, during what has been a frenzied period in past years for big money transfers in English football's top division. The lack of activity before the window shuts on Monday is due to twin factors rocking the game: the financial crisis caused by the coronavirus pandemic and post-Brexit immigration rules making it tougher to complete transfers. "The pandemic has been the big thing [as] clubs are reluctant to spend money now and a lot don't have it," said Jonathan Barnett, co-founder of ICM Stellar Sports, the agency that represents stars such as Tottenham Hotspur's Gareth Bale and Chelsea's Ben Chilwell. "As for Brexit, it has affected things. The quality of certain players wasn't high enough to come into the country . . . so a lot of smaller deals probably haven't been done." Lockdowns have left teams bereft of match-day revenue. Each month without fans equates to £100m in lost ticket sales across English football, according to the Premier League. Last season broadcasters also clawed back rebates worth £330m to cover the four-month period from March last year when fixtures were suspended.
Clubs that rely on day trippers for their match day revenue have been harder hit
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 02, 2021, 02:14:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 01, 2021, 03:47:07 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/546acfd3-d646-45a0-b9bc-e0041c06114b
When 18-year-old Amad Diallo moved from Italy's Atalanta to England's Manchester United on New Year's Day, the £37m signing became the first move of this January's football transfer window. But Premier League clubs have made just four other permanent signings since then, during what has been a frenzied period in past years for big money transfers in English football's top division. The lack of activity before the window shuts on Monday is due to twin factors rocking the game: the financial crisis caused by the coronavirus pandemic and post-Brexit immigration rules making it tougher to complete transfers. "The pandemic has been the big thing [as] clubs are reluctant to spend money now and a lot don't have it," said Jonathan Barnett, co-founder of ICM Stellar Sports, the agency that represents stars such as Tottenham Hotspur's Gareth Bale and Chelsea's Ben Chilwell. "As for Brexit, it has affected things. The quality of certain players wasn't high enough to come into the country . . . so a lot of smaller deals probably haven't been done." Lockdowns have left teams bereft of match-day revenue. Each month without fans equates to £100m in lost ticket sales across English football, according to the Premier League. Last season broadcasters also clawed back rebates worth £330m to cover the four-month period from March last year when fixtures were suspended.
Clubs that rely on day trippers for their match day revenue have been harder hit
Unless I'm missing something match day revenue is zero wherever your fans are coming from if 0% of them are getting in??
Quote from: Boycey on February 02, 2021, 02:29:09 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 02, 2021, 02:14:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 01, 2021, 03:47:07 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/546acfd3-d646-45a0-b9bc-e0041c06114b
When 18-year-old Amad Diallo moved from Italy's Atalanta to England's Manchester United on New Year's Day, the £37m signing became the first move of this January's football transfer window. But Premier League clubs have made just four other permanent signings since then, during what has been a frenzied period in past years for big money transfers in English football's top division. The lack of activity before the window shuts on Monday is due to twin factors rocking the game: the financial crisis caused by the coronavirus pandemic and post-Brexit immigration rules making it tougher to complete transfers. "The pandemic has been the big thing [as] clubs are reluctant to spend money now and a lot don't have it," said Jonathan Barnett, co-founder of ICM Stellar Sports, the agency that represents stars such as Tottenham Hotspur's Gareth Bale and Chelsea's Ben Chilwell. "As for Brexit, it has affected things. The quality of certain players wasn't high enough to come into the country . . . so a lot of smaller deals probably haven't been done." Lockdowns have left teams bereft of match-day revenue. Each month without fans equates to £100m in lost ticket sales across English football, according to the Premier League. Last season broadcasters also clawed back rebates worth £330m to cover the four-month period from March last year when fixtures were suspended.
Clubs that rely on day trippers for their match day revenue have been harder hit
Unless I'm missing something match day revenue is zero wherever your fans are coming from if 0% of them are getting in??
Yeah, all clubs get their season tickets sales no matter what but I'd imagine most clubs have suspended them for this season. I know some clubs took the money for the season tickets and then offered a pro-rata refund scheme which is a bit tight really instead of just refunding the whole lot. All clubs are in the same boat this year and the reality is it's only clubs who have strong commercial sides to their business that will cope best.
Not too many Irish players improving their lot in the transfer window. Shane Long, Conor Shaughnessy both drop down divisions. Troy Parrott loans from Millwall to Ipswich. Anyone at all in the ascendant?
Quote from: mouview on February 02, 2021, 03:41:43 PM
Not too many Irish players improving their lot in the transfer window. Shane Long, Conor Shaughnessy both drop down divisions. Troy Parrott loans from Millwall to Ipswich. Anyone at all in the ascendant?
Hourihane dropped on loan to Swansea. At least he's now getting minutes. Scored 2 already.
Ronald Koeman telling us what we already know.... :)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ronald-koeman-says-everton-fans-19750952.amp
Quote from: laoislad on February 02, 2021, 04:05:55 PM
Ronald Koeman telling us what we already know.... :)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ronald-koeman-says-everton-fans-19750952.amp
and he's proving at barcelona what everton fans already knew, that he's a worse than useless football manager.
Quote from: lurganblue on February 02, 2021, 03:45:07 PM
Quote from: mouview on February 02, 2021, 03:41:43 PM
Not too many Irish players improving their lot in the transfer window. Shane Long, Conor Shaughnessy both drop down divisions. Troy Parrott loans from Millwall to Ipswich. Anyone at all in the ascendant?
Hourihane dropped on loan to Swansea. At least he's now getting minutes. Scored 2 already.
He suffered from Dean Smith's aversion to substitutions.
Two wins for City this week will knock Liverpool out of the running.
Talk Alisson missing for Liverpool. Losing 1st keeper with inexperienced CB pair ahead will have Brighton and City rubbing their hands if true. Irish lad has done well but will be tested again.
Five aways wins tonight out of five, I wonder what the odds were.
Bedtime for me.... up Brighton early tomorrow
Fair play to Moyes with the job he is doing with West Ham. I thought he was a busted flush but what a job he is doing at the minute.
Lingard two goals too. I didn't realise he had signed. The form is all over the place for everyone bar city at the minute.
West Ham were excellent last night. They'd much more energy, especially in midfield. Souchek has been a great buy.
Moyes also doubled up on Grealish too which curtailed him a bit, even though he did get an assist.
Quote from: lurganblue on February 04, 2021, 11:52:14 AM
West Ham were excellent last night. They'd much more energy, especially in midfield. Souchek has been a great buy.
Moyes also doubled up on Grealish too which curtailed him a bit, even though he did get an assist.
West Ham were indeed excellent. Moyes had them set up perfectly to counter Villa's treat. Singular, because absolutely everything goes through Grealish.
There was a moment with about twenty mins to go that summed it up. Grealish played a one-two with a team mate which brought him in to a dangerous position just inside the box. Before the return pass had even reached him there were 5 black jerseys swarming around him. He did well to get a corner out of it. West Ham knew the ball would come back to him, because it always does. Not sure how it has taken opposing teams so long to work that out. It's up to his teammates now to start taking on more responsibility and stop trying to pass to him every single time, as it is so utterly predictable.
Luckily they have Arsenal next, who won't treat Villa with the respect that West Ham did, and will properly leave Bellerin all by himself to get cleaned out.
I see the Southampton player has had his Red card overturned after being sent off because of Martial diving.
Quote from: laoislad on February 04, 2021, 04:26:09 PM
I see the Southampton player has had his Red card overturned after being sent off because of Martial diving.
It was a dive. Not surprising.
Southampton have successfully appealed Jan Bednarek's red card while David Luiz's red card will stand.
The FA are making it up as we go along.
In fairness Utd were due a penalty so dive or not Mike Dean had to give it.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on February 04, 2021, 04:48:30 PM
Southampton have successfully appealed Jan Bednarek's red card while David Luiz's red card will stand.
The FA are making it up as we go along.
It was a penalty, Dermot Gallagher thinks the red card was correct as well as there was no genuine attempt to play the ball, the law does not allow for the accidental foul.
And it's David Luiz, accidently on purpose or just error prone.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 04, 2021, 04:30:44 PM
Quote from: laoislad on February 04, 2021, 04:26:09 PM
I see the Southampton player has had his Red card overturned after being sent off because of Martial diving.
It was a dive. Not surprising.
Will they be chalking off the goal? Would only be fair on Southampton
Quote from: Main Street on February 04, 2021, 05:47:58 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on February 04, 2021, 04:48:30 PM
Southampton have successfully appealed Jan Bednarek's red card while David Luiz's red card will stand.
The FA are making it up as we go along.
It was a penalty, Dermot Gallagher thinks the red card was correct as well as there was no genuine attempt to play the ball, the law does not allow for the accidental foul.
And it's David Luiz, accidently on purpose or just error prone.
A penalty should be enough punishment for accidental foul. Makes little sense to rescind one red card and not the other.
The FA aren't doing themselves any favours by the lack of consistency with their rulings.
p45 for Josie
I will never understand why Spurs got mourinho in.
It never ends any differently with Mourinho. Though from watching the Spurs Amazon show Levy looks like he is infatuated with Jose so he may not be going anywhere for a while.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 04, 2021, 09:59:41 PM
I will never understand why Spurs got mourinho in.
Made the same mistake as Manchester United thinking he wasn't past his best. His trust in Eric Dier backfired again tonight.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 04, 2021, 07:24:18 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 04, 2021, 04:30:44 PM
Quote from: laoislad on February 04, 2021, 04:26:09 PM
I see the Southampton player has had his Red card overturned after being sent off because of Martial diving.
It was a dive. Not surprising.
Will they be chalking off the goal? Would only be fair on Southampton
has this ever happened?
Quote from: square_ball on February 04, 2021, 10:03:17 PM
It never ends any differently with Mourinho. Though from watching the Spurs Amazon show Levy looks like he is infatuated with Jose so he may not be going anywhere for a while.
wont be long until they clash too
Quote from: Captain Obvious on February 04, 2021, 10:08:29 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 04, 2021, 09:59:41 PM
I will never understand why Spurs got mourinho in.
Made the same mistake as Manchester United thinking he wasn't past his best. His trust in Eric Dier backfired again tonight.
After a year or two at Madrid, Jose was past it.
Jose will come out of Spurs smelling of roses though. When he knows time is running out, it's about self-preservation. "Look what I have to work with" sort of comments, "they won't give me money so I had to put in a 15 year old in midfield" and reminding people how many titles he's won. It becomes all about him and blaming everyone else. He will become a poison running through Spurs.
spurs will probably go all out for the FA cup
Mike Dean at it again ::)
Mike Dean stealing the headlines again. Never a red for soucek in a million years.
Everton should win this now. Rashford poor finishing letting him down. Himself and Martial will never be top strikers
Everton are sh.............HANG ON!!!!!!!!!!
Utd got what they deserved. A great first half destroyed by a shambolic start to the 2nd.
De Gea a liability, far too error prone the last 2-3 seasons.
I don't even think it's errors as such anymore. He's slow coming out to meet players now I think. And positioning seems to have failed him at times.
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on February 06, 2021, 09:59:14 PM
Everton are sh.............HANG ON!!!!!!!!!!
Some bottle job from Man United.
Good result for the rest of the Top 4 though.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 06, 2021, 10:10:39 PM
I don't even think it's errors as such anymore. He's slow coming out to meet players now I think. And positioning seems to have failed him at times.
He was always slow coming out and his positioning always poor. He showed again tonight his lack of bravery. I never rated him. I'm totally sick of it.
Fergie time goals are the best.
Quote from: BennyCake on February 07, 2021, 12:19:44 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 06, 2021, 10:10:39 PM
I don't even think it's errors as such anymore. He's slow coming out to meet players now I think. And positioning seems to have failed him at times.
He was always slow coming out and his positioning always poor. He showed again tonight his lack of bravery. I never rated him. I'm totally sick of it.
Why have you never mentioned this?
Sky couldn't wait to put the boot in on de Gea for the third goal without a mention that Calvert Lewin waltzed in without a finger being laid on him. The line defending the free kick far more at fault than de Gea.
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 07, 2021, 05:54:21 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 07, 2021, 12:19:44 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 06, 2021, 10:10:39 PM
I don't even think it's errors as such anymore. He's slow coming out to meet players now I think. And positioning seems to have failed him at times.
He was always slow coming out and his positioning always poor. He showed again tonight his lack of bravery. I never rated him. I'm totally sick of it.
Why have you never mentioned this?
I thought I had. Obviously I hadn't :o
Going with 4-1 to the pool. Guardiola and Sterling usually dung themselves at Anfield
Missed penalty i hear!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 05:16:29 PM
Missed penalty i hear!
Hasn't lived up to the SKY hype so far, low quality stuff in that 1st half. Fabinho should be pleased Gundogan got a point instead of goal on that penalty.
City need to get Sterling and Foden on the pitch. Toothless up front. Momentum with Liverpool now.
Quote from: reillycavan on February 07, 2021, 04:30:43 PM
Going with 4-1 to the pool. Guardiola and Sterling usually dung themselves at Anfield
4-1 in the pool alright..league well and truly over now!
Foden is absolute quality. Shame he's English.
Quote from: reillycavan on February 07, 2021, 05:56:25 PM
City need to get Sterling and Foden on the pitch. Toothless up front. Momentum with Liverpool now.
You're good at this. Sky sports should sign you up.
Absolute joke of a league when you see the price tags and wages of some of these imposters.
Quote from: Helix. on February 07, 2021, 06:10:58 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on February 07, 2021, 04:30:43 PM
Going with 4-1 to the pool. Guardiola and Sterling usually dung themselves at Anfield
4-1 in the pool alright..league well and truly over now!
It was over anyway.
A game that was heading towards a 1-1 draw until the Alisson errors.
Quote from: reillycavan on February 07, 2021, 05:56:25 PM
City need to get Sterling and Foden on the pitch. Toothless up front. Momentum with Liverpool now.
😂😂
Will Alisson get awarded with assists for those goals?
Horrendous, I though Utd's keeper was brutal yesterday but this is a master class
Quote from: Rich Ricci on February 07, 2021, 06:12:52 PM
Foden is absolute quality. Shame he's English.
Will be hyped even more by Brittish media. If concentres on his football will be top player .
Quote from: BennyCake on February 07, 2021, 06:17:51 PM
Quote from: Helix. on February 07, 2021, 06:10:58 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on February 07, 2021, 04:30:43 PM
Going with 4-1 to the pool. Guardiola and Sterling usually dung themselves at Anfield
4-1 in the pool alright..league well and truly over now!
It was over anyway.
I thought it was over when Man United won it in January..
Quote from: square_ball on February 07, 2021, 06:15:28 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on February 07, 2021, 05:56:25 PM
City need to get Sterling and Foden on the pitch. Toothless up front. Momentum with Liverpool now.
You're good at this. Sky sports should sign you up.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Liverpool Blackburn and Leicester... at least Leicester have made a decent comeback though
Roy Keane not holding back
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Roy Keane not holding back
What's he saying?
Don't forget in December he said city had no chance of winning the league
Quote from: maldini on February 07, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Roy Keane not holding back
What's he saying?
Don't forget in December he said city had no chance of winning the league
along the lines of; all they do is make excuses, they've been bad champions, they didn't look to push on and try to retain it, happy patting themselves on the back and if they continue like this it'll be another 30 years before they win it again.
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: maldini on February 07, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Roy Keane not holding back
What's he saying?
Don't forget in December he said city had no chance of winning the league
along the lines of; all they do is make excuses, they've been bad champions, they didn't look to push on and try to retain it, happy patting themselves on the back and if they continue like this it'll be another 30 years before they win it again.
Sensible, reality-based stuff from Keane there. :o ::)
Chelsea back in the Top 4 mix now.
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2021, 08:07:57 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: maldini on February 07, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Roy Keane not holding back
What's he saying?
Don't forget in December he said city had no chance of winning the league
along the lines of; all they do is make excuses, they've been bad champions, they didn't look to push on and try to retain it, happy patting themselves on the back and if they continue like this it'll be another 30 years before they win it again.
Sensible, reality-based stuff from Keane there. :o ::)
which bit is he wrong about?
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2021, 08:07:57 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: maldini on February 07, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Roy Keane not holding back
What's he saying?
Don't forget in December he said city had no chance of winning the league
along the lines of; all they do is make excuses, they've been bad champions, they didn't look to push on and try to retain it, happy patting themselves on the back and if they continue like this it'll be another 30 years before they win it again.
Sensible, reality-based stuff from Keane there. :o ::)
Aye, it's hilarious how idiots hang off every word he says. The guy contradicts himself more than anyone on Sky Sports. City were finished according to him a few months ago.
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:10:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2021, 08:07:57 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: maldini on February 07, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Roy Keane not holding back
What's he saying?
Don't forget in December he said city had no chance of winning the league
along the lines of; all they do is make excuses, they've been bad champions, they didn't look to push on and try to retain it, happy patting themselves on the back and if they continue like this it'll be another 30 years before they win it again.
Sensible, reality-based stuff from Keane there. :o ::)
which bit is he wrong about?
Pretty much all of it Sheedy if ye read it line by line
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: maldini on February 07, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Roy Keane not holding back
What's he saying?
Don't forget in December he said city had no chance of winning the league
along the lines of; all they do is make excuses, they've been bad champions, they didn't look to push on and try to retain it, happy patting themselves on the back and if they continue like this it'll be another 30 years before they win it again.
To be fair he is not far wrong with Liverpool. Worst defence of a PL ever.
All the experts in here tonight ;D
Quote from: laoislad on February 07, 2021, 08:18:26 PM
All the experts in here tonight ;D
Fuvk! Same experts were on last night!
It's all about taking the beating and move on
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:10:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2021, 08:07:57 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: maldini on February 07, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Roy Keane not holding back
What's he saying?
Don't forget in December he said city had no chance of winning the league
along the lines of; all they do is make excuses, they've been bad champions, they didn't look to push on and try to retain it, happy patting themselves on the back and if they continue like this it'll be another 30 years before they win it again.
Sensible, reality-based stuff from Keane there. :o ::)
which bit is he wrong about?
1. They've been devastated by injuries, which have had a major knock-on effect on the rest of the team. How would his United teams had faired if they played a season with himself and Paul Scoles playing centre of defense, while a succession of other midfielders also suffered lengthy absences?
2. Liverpool are just off two seasons where they maintained an insane rate of form, winning more than 30 games in each. There was bound to be a drop-off. Not even City could continue that into a third consecutive season.
3. What evidence is there that Liverpool were happy to rest on their laurels and make excuses?
Quote from: GJL on February 07, 2021, 08:14:40 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: maldini on February 07, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Roy Keane not holding back
What's he saying?
Don't forget in December he said city had no chance of winning the league
along the lines of; all they do is make excuses, they've been bad champions, they didn't look to push on and try to retain it, happy patting themselves on the back and if they continue like this it'll be another 30 years before they win it again.
To be fair he is not far wrong with Liverpool. Worst defence of a PL ever.
Man United finished 7th the season after the last time they won it,which is nearly 8 years ago now since they won it....Maybe if Liverpool finish 8th you might have a case...
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2021, 08:21:00 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:10:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2021, 08:07:57 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: maldini on February 07, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Roy Keane not holding back
What's he saying?
Don't forget in December he said city had no chance of winning the league
along the lines of; all they do is make excuses, they've been bad champions, they didn't look to push on and try to retain it, happy patting themselves on the back and if they continue like this it'll be another 30 years before they win it again.
Sensible, reality-based stuff from Keane there. :o ::)
which bit is he wrong about?
1. They've been devastated by injuries, which have had a major knock-on effect on the rest of the team. How would his United teams had faired if they played a season with himself and Paul Scoles playing centre of defense, while a succession of other midfielders also suffered lengthy absences?
2. Liverpool are just off two seasons where they maintained an insane rate of form, winning more than 30 games in each. There was bound to be a drop-off. Not even City could continue that into a third consecutive season.
3. What evidence is there that Liverpool were happy to rest on their laurels and make excuses?
Keano is Keano, a dream pundit for Sky Sports. Nobody can live with the standards he expects. He will tear into every team in rotation and poeple lap it up. Fans that are annoyed with him today were probably chuckling as he was ripping into United a few months back and vice versa by the way.
He's best treated as an entertaining sideshow ..
He's a piss taker on these shows and people bite... brilliant
Quote from: laoislad on February 07, 2021, 06:25:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 07, 2021, 06:17:51 PM
Quote from: Helix. on February 07, 2021, 06:10:58 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on February 07, 2021, 04:30:43 PM
Going with 4-1 to the pool. Guardiola and Sterling usually dung themselves at Anfield
4-1 in the pool alright..league well and truly over now!
It was over anyway.
I thought it was over when Man United won it in January..
Won what in January?
Quote from: BennyCake on February 07, 2021, 08:55:01 PM
Quote from: laoislad on February 07, 2021, 06:25:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 07, 2021, 06:17:51 PM
Quote from: Helix. on February 07, 2021, 06:10:58 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on February 07, 2021, 04:30:43 PM
Going with 4-1 to the pool. Guardiola and Sterling usually dung themselves at Anfield
4-1 in the pool alright..league well and truly over now!
It was over anyway.
I thought it was over when Man United won it in January..
Won what in January?
Ah January, u must remember it we all lost the run of ourselves and declared Utd winners. There were DVDS, t-shirts printed and I think a couple of bookies even paid out. Good times...
Quote from: Boycey on February 07, 2021, 09:06:07 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 07, 2021, 08:55:01 PM
Quote from: laoislad on February 07, 2021, 06:25:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 07, 2021, 06:17:51 PM
Quote from: Helix. on February 07, 2021, 06:10:58 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on February 07, 2021, 04:30:43 PM
Going with 4-1 to the pool. Guardiola and Sterling usually dung themselves at Anfield
4-1 in the pool alright..league well and truly over now!
It was over anyway.
I thought it was over when Man United won it in January..
Won what in January?
Ah January, u must remember it we all lost the run of ourselves and declared Utd winners. There were DVDS, t-shirts printed and I think a couple of bookies even paid out. Good times...
Ah yes, January 2001. Good times indeed.
Quote from: laoislad on February 07, 2021, 08:22:43 PM
Quote from: GJL on February 07, 2021, 08:14:40 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: maldini on February 07, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Roy Keane not holding back
What's he saying?
Don't forget in December he said city had no chance of winning the league
along the lines of; all they do is make excuses, they've been bad champions, they didn't look to push on and try to retain it, happy patting themselves on the back and if they continue like this it'll be another 30 years before they win it again.
To be fair he is not far wrong with Liverpool. Worst defence of a PL ever.
Man United finished 7th the season after the last time they won it,which is nearly 8 years ago now since they won it....Maybe if Liverpool finish 8th you might have a case...
27 points less than the same stage last season. No champion has dropped off as much before.
Quote from: GJL on February 07, 2021, 10:51:07 PM
Quote from: laoislad on February 07, 2021, 08:22:43 PM
Quote from: GJL on February 07, 2021, 08:14:40 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: maldini on February 07, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Roy Keane not holding back
What's he saying?
Don't forget in December he said city had no chance of winning the league
along the lines of; all they do is make excuses, they've been bad champions, they didn't look to push on and try to retain it, happy patting themselves on the back and if they continue like this it'll be another 30 years before they win it again.
To be fair he is not far wrong with Liverpool. Worst defence of a PL ever.
Man United finished 7th the season after the last time they won it,which is nearly 8 years ago now since they won it....Maybe if Liverpool finish 8th you might have a case...
27 points less than the same stage last season. No champion has dropped off as much before.
You're just making up ways of measuring failure now.
What was the W D L at this stage last year Ec? Just so we can see if it was pretty impressive or an oul run of the mill total that teams would do every year.....
Quote from: GJL on February 07, 2021, 10:51:07 PM
Quote from: laoislad on February 07, 2021, 08:22:43 PM
Quote from: GJL on February 07, 2021, 08:14:40 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: maldini on February 07, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Roy Keane not holding back
What's he saying?
Don't forget in December he said city had no chance of winning the league
along the lines of; all they do is make excuses, they've been bad champions, they didn't look to push on and try to retain it, happy patting themselves on the back and if they continue like this it'll be another 30 years before they win it again.
To be fair he is not far wrong with Liverpool. Worst defence of a PL ever.
Man United finished 7th the season after the last time they won it,which is nearly 8 years ago now since they won it....Maybe if Liverpool finish 8th you might have a case...
27 points less than the same stage last season. No champion has dropped off as much before.
Leeds? Blackburn? Leicester?
This time last year Man City had 47 points after 22 games. They have 3 points more this season.
Quote from: GJL on February 07, 2021, 08:14:40 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: maldini on February 07, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Roy Keane not holding back
What's he saying?
Don't forget in December he said city had no chance of winning the league
along the lines of; all they do is make excuses, they've been bad champions, they didn't look to push on and try to retain it, happy patting themselves on the back and if they continue like this it'll be another 30 years before they win it again.
To be fair he is not far wrong with Liverpool. Worst defence of a PL ever.
I'd like to see the stats to back that up
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 08, 2021, 12:02:24 AM
Quote from: GJL on February 07, 2021, 08:14:40 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: maldini on February 07, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Roy Keane not holding back
What's he saying?
Don't forget in December he said city had no chance of winning the league
along the lines of; all they do is make excuses, they've been bad champions, they didn't look to push on and try to retain it, happy patting themselves on the back and if they continue like this it'll be another 30 years before they win it again.
To be fair he is not far wrong with Liverpool. Worst defence of a PL ever.
I'd like to see the stats to back that up
As someone already said as recently as United's last title, they bottled their defence and came 8th the following season. So he's factually incorrect and was a poor attempt at a wind up
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 08, 2021, 12:02:24 AM
Quote from: GJL on February 07, 2021, 08:14:40 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: maldini on February 07, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Roy Keane not holding back
What's he saying?
Don't forget in December he said city had no chance of winning the league
along the lines of; all they do is make excuses, they've been bad champions, they didn't look to push on and try to retain it, happy patting themselves on the back and if they continue like this it'll be another 30 years before they win it again.
To be fair he is not far wrong with Liverpool. Worst defence of a PL ever.
I'd like to see the stats to back that up
Referring to this?
https://mobile.twitter.com/OptaJoe/status/1358482420115382272
Quote from: Captain Obvious on February 08, 2021, 02:17:08 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 08, 2021, 12:02:24 AM
Quote from: GJL on February 07, 2021, 08:14:40 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: maldini on February 07, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Roy Keane not holding back
What's he saying?
Don't forget in December he said city had no chance of winning the league
along the lines of; all they do is make excuses, they've been bad champions, they didn't look to push on and try to retain it, happy patting themselves on the back and if they continue like this it'll be another 30 years before they win it again.
To be fair he is not far wrong with Liverpool. Worst defence of a PL ever.
I'd like to see the stats to back that up
Referring to this?
https://mobile.twitter.com/OptaJoe/status/1358482420115382272
Based on that logic.
If a team successfully defended the title while getting fewer points that the previous year, then that would be a poorer defence of their title than if they had come 2nd with more points that the previous year.
You can keep your poorly framed "statistic".
Of course that stat isn't in anyway skewed because of the ridiculous amount of points Liverpool won last season, feck sure it could be even more skewed if Liverpool hadn't played the remaining of the season hungover after they won it.
It's just a pity they are also playing this season still hungover (said it before someone else did!) :D
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on February 08, 2021, 01:42:52 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 08, 2021, 12:02:24 AM
Quote from: GJL on February 07, 2021, 08:14:40 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: maldini on February 07, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Roy Keane not holding back
What's he saying?
Don't forget in December he said city had no chance of winning the league
along the lines of; all they do is make excuses, they've been bad champions, they didn't look to push on and try to retain it, happy patting themselves on the back and if they continue like this it'll be another 30 years before they win it again.
To be fair he is not far wrong with Liverpool. Worst defence of a PL ever.
I'd like to see the stats to back that up
As someone already said as recently as United's last title, they bottled their defence and came 8th the following season. So he's factually incorrect and was a poor attempt at a wind up
There's still plenty of time for them to achieve 9th place
Liverpool deserve some criticism although as funny as it is its well over the top, even with the injuries to the centre half's they should have more points.
Klopp must look at the way City have backed Pep enviously, he inherited a brilliant squad and still went out and spent nearly £800m on players. They've 2 top players for every position, spent over £500 along on keepers and defenders. Nobody else can cope with that.
Well done to Pep though, tactically they've changed and there system is less demanding on the players which off course is a huge benefit when there's games every days.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on February 08, 2021, 09:36:45 AM
Liverpool deserve some criticism although as funny as it is its well over the top, even with the injuries to the centre half's they should have more points.
Klopp must look at the way City have backed Pep enviously, he inherited a brilliant squad and still went out and spent nearly £800m on players. They've 2 top players for every position, spent over £500 along on keepers and defenders. Nobody else can cope with that.
Well done to Pep though, tactically they've changed and there system is less demanding on the players which off course is a huge benefit when there's games every days.
In fairness to City also, some players forms have been through the roof lately, Foden, Stones and Gundogan have played at a higher tempo, they are driving on a team missing two top stars also..
Pep is in a good position with the money behind him in every club he's been involved with, lets see him at Newcastle with their budget or Brighton
Oddschecker EPL Outright best odds:
City 1/11
United 26/1
Liverpool 40/1
Some bookies should start paying out soon I'd imagine
Quote from: Captain Obvious on February 08, 2021, 02:17:08 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 08, 2021, 12:02:24 AM
Quote from: GJL on February 07, 2021, 08:14:40 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: maldini on February 07, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Roy Keane not holding back
What's he saying?
Don't forget in December he said city had no chance of winning the league
along the lines of; all they do is make excuses, they've been bad champions, they didn't look to push on and try to retain it, happy patting themselves on the back and if they continue like this it'll be another 30 years before they win it again.
To be fair he is not far wrong with Liverpool. Worst defence of a PL ever.
I'd like to see the stats to back that up
Referring to this?
https://mobile.twitter.com/OptaJoe/status/1358482420115382272
And what does this prove
Quote from: StPatsAbu on February 08, 2021, 10:06:31 AM
Oddschecker EPL Outright best odds:
City 1/11
United 26/1
Liverpool 40/1
Some bookies should start paying out soon I'd imagine
Guardiola was written royally off in these pages, even so far back as a few months ago.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 08, 2021, 09:45:14 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on February 08, 2021, 09:36:45 AM
Liverpool deserve some criticism although as funny as it is its well over the top, even with the injuries to the centre half's they should have more points.
Klopp must look at the way City have backed Pep enviously, he inherited a brilliant squad and still went out and spent nearly £800m on players. They've 2 top players for every position, spent over £500 along on keepers and defenders. Nobody else can cope with that.
Well done to Pep though, tactically they've changed and there system is less demanding on the players which off course is a huge benefit when there's games every days.
In fairness to City also, some players forms have been through the roof lately, Foden, Stones and Gundogan have played at a higher tempo, they are driving on a team missing two top stars also..
Pep is in a good position with the money behind him in every club he's been involved with, lets see him at Newcastle with their budget or Brighton
Or Celtic.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 08, 2021, 10:47:24 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 08, 2021, 09:45:14 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on February 08, 2021, 09:36:45 AM
Liverpool deserve some criticism although as funny as it is its well over the top, even with the injuries to the centre half's they should have more points.
Klopp must look at the way City have backed Pep enviously, he inherited a brilliant squad and still went out and spent nearly £800m on players. They've 2 top players for every position, spent over £500 along on keepers and defenders. Nobody else can cope with that.
Well done to Pep though, tactically they've changed and there system is less demanding on the players which off course is a huge benefit when there's games every days.
In fairness to City also, some players forms have been through the roof lately, Foden, Stones and Gundogan have played at a higher tempo, they are driving on a team missing two top stars also..
Pep is in a good position with the money behind him in every club he's been involved with, lets see him at Newcastle with their budget or Brighton
Or Celtic.
Peps probably had the strongest squad in Europe since he started out in management, he's had a lot going in his favour. I'd rate Klopp as the better manager.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on February 08, 2021, 10:50:40 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 08, 2021, 10:47:24 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 08, 2021, 09:45:14 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on February 08, 2021, 09:36:45 AM
Liverpool deserve some criticism although as funny as it is its well over the top, even with the injuries to the centre half's they should have more points.
Klopp must look at the way City have backed Pep enviously, he inherited a brilliant squad and still went out and spent nearly £800m on players. They've 2 top players for every position, spent over £500 along on keepers and defenders. Nobody else can cope with that.
Well done to Pep though, tactically they've changed and there system is less demanding on the players which off course is a huge benefit when there's games every days.
In fairness to City also, some players forms have been through the roof lately, Foden, Stones and Gundogan have played at a higher tempo, they are driving on a team missing two top stars also..
Pep is in a good position with the money behind him in every club he's been involved with, lets see him at Newcastle with their budget or Brighton
Or Celtic.
Peps probably had the strongest squad in Europe since he started out in management, he's had a lot going in his favour. I'd rate Klopp as the better manager.
Still in the air, Klopp is now under real pressure and his team look out on their feet - he done the same at Dortmund too remember.
Can he adjust his tactics / team like Guardiola has or is it 100mph or nothing?
Quote from: Boycey on February 07, 2021, 08:38:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2021, 08:21:00 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:10:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2021, 08:07:57 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: maldini on February 07, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Roy Keane not holding back
What's he saying?
Don't forget in December he said city had no chance of winning the league
along the lines of; all they do is make excuses, they've been bad champions, they didn't look to push on and try to retain it, happy patting themselves on the back and if they continue like this it'll be another 30 years before they win it again.
Sensible, reality-based stuff from Keane there. :o ::)
which bit is he wrong about?
1. They've been devastated by injuries, which have had a major knock-on effect on the rest of the team. How would his United teams had faired if they played a season with himself and Paul Scoles playing centre of defense, while a succession of other midfielders also suffered lengthy absences?
2. Liverpool are just off two seasons where they maintained an insane rate of form, winning more than 30 games in each. There was bound to be a drop-off. Not even City could continue that into a third consecutive season.
3. What evidence is there that Liverpool were happy to rest on their laurels and make excuses?
Keano is Keano, a dream pundit for Sky Sports. Nobody can live with the standards he expects. He will tear into every team in rotation and poeple lap it up. Fans that are annoyed with him today were probably chuckling as he was ripping into United a few months back and vice versa by the way.
He's best treated as an entertaining sideshow ..
Always the voice of reason Boycey! :)
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 08, 2021, 11:10:22 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on February 08, 2021, 10:50:40 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 08, 2021, 10:47:24 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 08, 2021, 09:45:14 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on February 08, 2021, 09:36:45 AM
Liverpool deserve some criticism although as funny as it is its well over the top, even with the injuries to the centre half's they should have more points.
Klopp must look at the way City have backed Pep enviously, he inherited a brilliant squad and still went out and spent nearly £800m on players. They've 2 top players for every position, spent over £500 along on keepers and defenders. Nobody else can cope with that.
Well done to Pep though, tactically they've changed and there system is less demanding on the players which off course is a huge benefit when there's games every days.
In fairness to City also, some players forms have been through the roof lately, Foden, Stones and Gundogan have played at a higher tempo, they are driving on a team missing two top stars also..
Pep is in a good position with the money behind him in every club he's been involved with, lets see him at Newcastle with their budget or Brighton
Or Celtic.
Peps probably had the strongest squad in Europe since he started out in management, he's had a lot going in his favour. I'd rate Klopp as the better manager.
Still in the air, Klopp is now under real pressure and his team look out on their feet - he done the same at Dortmund too remember.
Can he adjust his tactics / team like Guardiola has or is it 100mph or nothing?
He needs to start by getting a couple of centre backs into the team and restoring Henderson and Fabinho to midfield. They're losing the games anyway due to a complete lack of fluency in attack. It might take a month and a couple of defeats to bed everything in, but with most of the other teams also dropping points all over the place, its not as it they'd be 15 points off top 4 going into the last ten games.
In actual fact, you don't even have to go as far back as United bottling it the year after they won it. Just LAST season, we were about 25 points clear of city at this stage, the year after they got almost 100 points. Mancs won't say that's the worst title defence will they though. And their reason was they had Laporte out, whereas we've playing playing the whole season with half a team and no CBs (and VAR). Given the circumstances Liverpool are doing quite well to be in contention for top 4.
Pep has spent an insane amount of money however how he has been able to keep all players fresh, hungry and HAPPY is testament to him.
Obviously the CL is still the blot on the copybook but he will give it a big rattle this season.
Klopp is super when he has all players flying fit however question marks remain as to why he didnt build a squad rather than a first 11.
Quote from: Taylor on February 08, 2021, 07:04:35 PM
Pep has spent an insane amount of money however how he has been able to keep all players fresh, hungry and HAPPY is testament to him.
Obviously the CL is still the blot on the copybook but he will give it a big rattle this season.
Klopp is super when he has all players flying fit however question marks remain as to why he didnt build a squad rather than a first 11.
Its clearly money. Liverpool can't afford world-class back-ups in most positions.
FSG want the club to be self-sustaining.
The Suarez and Coutinho money allowed them to build a top-two English (and arguably European) team under those conditions without having to cash in on other top players (Michael Edwards squeezing other clubs helped too!).
With FFP gone and now COVID, who knows where it will end up in a few years once the current team passes it's sell-by date.
Quote from: J70 on February 08, 2021, 07:31:31 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 08, 2021, 07:04:35 PM
Pep has spent an insane amount of money however how he has been able to keep all players fresh, hungry and HAPPY is testament to him.
Obviously the CL is still the blot on the copybook but he will give it a big rattle this season.
Klopp is super when he has all players flying fit however question marks remain as to why he didnt build a squad rather than a first 11.
Its clearly money. Liverpool can't afford world-class back-ups in most positions.
FSG want the club to be self-sustaining.
The Suarez and Coutinho money allowed them to build a top-two English (and arguably European) team under those conditions without having to cash in on other top players (Michael Edwards squeezing other clubs helped too!).
With FFP gone and now COVID, who knows where it will end up in a few years once the current team passes it's sell-by date.
There no different from the Glazers although they are more competent. Klopp has performed miracles, if you'd have been told he'd have spent what he has back when he first took the job but he'd end up winning the title and CL and wasn't far off winning both again I'd have laughed especially the way he had Liverpool playing. He's the best manager of his generation and he must be very frustrated he's not backed the way he should be.
City will go out this summer and buy a top centre forward, very had to compete with that.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on February 09, 2021, 09:07:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 08, 2021, 07:31:31 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 08, 2021, 07:04:35 PM
Pep has spent an insane amount of money however how he has been able to keep all players fresh, hungry and HAPPY is testament to him.
Obviously the CL is still the blot on the copybook but he will give it a big rattle this season.
Klopp is super when he has all players flying fit however question marks remain as to why he didnt build a squad rather than a first 11.
Its clearly money. Liverpool can't afford world-class back-ups in most positions.
FSG want the club to be self-sustaining.
The Suarez and Coutinho money allowed them to build a top-two English (and arguably European) team under those conditions without having to cash in on other top players (Michael Edwards squeezing other clubs helped too!).
With FFP gone and now COVID, who knows where it will end up in a few years once the current team passes it's sell-by date.
There no different from the Glazers although they are more competent. Klopp has performed miracles, if you'd have been told he'd have spent what he has back when he first took the job but he'd end up winning the title and CL and wasn't far off winning both again I'd have laughed especially the way he had Liverpool playing. He's the best manager of his generation and he must be very frustrated he's not backed the way he should be.
City will go out this summer and buy a top centre forward, very had to compete with that.
To say he's the best manager of his generation. I think your hatred of City clouds your judgement here - in no way does Klopp come close to some other managers in terms of trophies won. If that is our barometer in that respect, Klopp is nowhere near Guardiola for example.
Klopp is a great motivator, tactically I'm not totally sold on him (but we'll see in the next 6 - 12 months what he's made of now, I think Pep has proved the more innovative with regards to the Covid situation and work load on players) but there's a lot made of management, the players are the ones take the pitch and Klopp can get 101% out of players that we didn't know had it. Robertson, Wijnaldum would be two I'd say Klopp made from average enough to genuine class. I think that is Klopps biggest strength.
No doubt that he is a quality manager. He has taken Liverpool to heights that nobody thought possible - but then again, Brendan Rodgers was arguably pretty close to that too and for some reason Liverpool fans have no real love for him. Why Liverpool aren't backing him? Who knows - but the title is always harder to retain, history has shown only the best managers of modern times retain the Premier League. Klopp is getting more and more aggressive as the weeks go on in interviews. I think the tide will turn against him soon if he continues that, the media will turn on him. If he doesn't arrest the current slide I actually can see him leaving soon (especially if the owners don't back him big in summer). It doesn't look like the money is there and at the minute he doesn't even look happy.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 09, 2021, 10:26:14 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on February 09, 2021, 09:07:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 08, 2021, 07:31:31 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 08, 2021, 07:04:35 PM
Pep has spent an insane amount of money however how he has been able to keep all players fresh, hungry and HAPPY is testament to him.
Obviously the CL is still the blot on the copybook but he will give it a big rattle this season.
Klopp is super when he has all players flying fit however question marks remain as to why he didnt build a squad rather than a first 11.
Its clearly money. Liverpool can't afford world-class back-ups in most positions.
FSG want the club to be self-sustaining.
The Suarez and Coutinho money allowed them to build a top-two English (and arguably European) team under those conditions without having to cash in on other top players (Michael Edwards squeezing other clubs helped too!).
With FFP gone and now COVID, who knows where it will end up in a few years once the current team passes it's sell-by date.
There no different from the Glazers although they are more competent. Klopp has performed miracles, if you'd have been told he'd have spent what he has back when he first took the job but he'd end up winning the title and CL and wasn't far off winning both again I'd have laughed especially the way he had Liverpool playing. He's the best manager of his generation and he must be very frustrated he's not backed the way he should be.
City will go out this summer and buy a top centre forward, very had to compete with that.
To say he's the best manager of his generation. I think your hatred of City clouds your judgement here - in no way does Klopp come close to some other managers in terms of trophies won. If that is our barometer in that respect, Klopp is nowhere near Guardiola for example.
Klopp is a great motivator, tactically I'm not totally sold on him (but we'll see in the next 6 - 12 months what he's made of now, I think Pep has proved the more innovative with regards to the Covid situation and work load on players) but there's a lot made of management, the players are the ones take the pitch and Klopp can get 101% out of players that we didn't know had it. Robertson, Wijnaldum would be two I'd say Klopp made from average enough to genuine class. I think that is Klopps biggest strength.
No doubt that he is a quality manager. He has taken Liverpool to heights that nobody thought possible - but then again, Brendan Rodgers was arguably pretty close to that too and for some reason Liverpool fans have no real love for him. Why Liverpool aren't backing him? Who knows - but the title is always harder to retain, history has shown only the best managers of modern times retain the Premier League. Klopp is getting more and more aggressive as the weeks go on in interviews. I think the tide will turn against him soon if he continues that, the media will turn on him. If he doesn't arrest the current slide I actually can see him leaving soon (especially if the owners don't back him big in summer). It doesn't look like the money is there and at the minute he doesn't even look happy.
Trust me Liverpool are miles ahead of anyone when it comes to that list.
Pep since he started out in management has been blessed with one of the best squad of players in Europe at that time and for the majority of time the best squad. He inherited a brilliant set of players at City and still went out and has still gone on to spend nearly £800m on players.
Pep is always going to have an asterix next to his achievements until he goes somewhere that's a real challenge.
Rogers is relatively unloved because it all turned to shit for him after the excitement and breath-taking football of the 13/14 season, a spell which basically began with the purchases of Sturridge and Coutinho in the 12/13 winter window and the promotion of Sterling. That 14/15 season (complete with the panic buy of Balotelli after the sale of Suarez) was brutally bad and a major comedown, with laboured, sterile football, culminating in the no-show against Villa in the cup semi-final and the 6-1 thrashing at Stoke on the last day.
They did go on a decent run for a while that season when Rodgers changed the formation, bookended by two games against United. The first with the comically bad defending at Old Trafford, with Brad Jones diving the wrong way for a weak Rooney shot from the edge of the box, as well as a Lovren brainfart for another. Ironically, Liverpool had looked decent enough, relatively speaking, that day with the new formation, and they then started to create some chances and went on a decent enough run. That lasted until Van Gaal's team passed them off the park at Anfield in the return match (the one where Mata scored twice and Gerrard got sent off 30 seconds after coming on), a day when Liverpool were supposed to overtake United in the race for top 4. From then on, it all went to shit again, and it was the case of death by a thousand cuts for Rodgers as each game was played.
In the end, he was lucky he survived the summer, but things didn't get any better at the start of 15/16, and he was living on borrowed time.
It might be that in years to come, Rodgers will be remembered more fondly. Gerard Houllier, after all, saw his own reign peter out in a similar fashion after seeming on the cusp of building a title-challenging team, but then again, he did bring a few trophies to the club.
Rodgers didn't help himself at times. Bit of a marmite character. Personally I thought he bullshitted a bit too much and was a little out of his depth at Liverpool at that time. Really good managers can find a way to turn things around when things get rough. Once Liverpool lost Suarez, and Sturridge went on a free to the physio room, that was that. He also had a penchant for talking himself up quite a lot with references to smart tactics and the character of the team. Confidence is one thing, but I always got the sense he was punching above his weight and there wasn't enough know how, experience and substance behind the flannel.
Would it not be a real crisis if Liverpool fail to make the Champions League?
Could they hold Mane, Salah without it?
Could they attract top talent without it?
Henderson, Van Dijk in the 30 age bracket how many more years they maintain their consistence and performance playing the high tempo game they do?
Quote from: pbat on February 09, 2021, 03:37:06 PM
Would it not be a real crisis if Liverpool fail to make the Champions League?
Could they hold Mane, Salah without it?
Could they attract top talent without it?
Henderson, Van Dijk in the 30 age bracket how many more years they maintain their consistence and performance playing the high tempo game they do?
The rebuild is the issue all right, and that obviously would be much harder with no Champions League football on offer. One would assume that was what finally jolted the club into bringing in those two centre backs, however they each fare.
Wijnaldum appears to be on his way out the door as a free agent (despite playing basically every game), while one would assume the likes of Milner, Shaqiri, Adrian, Matip and so on will follow.
There are rumours that they're interested in Raphina of Leeds, while, presumably, Jota will occupy one of the forward spots on a regular basis once he's back.
Honestly, if one of the big Spanish teams did come in with a massive offer for Salah or Mane, I'd say Liverpool would be hard pushed to turn it down, but they're not exactly flush with cash at the moment.
I think they definitely need to play the likes of Jones a lot more, while Tsimikas and Neco Williams should start getting more game time once Kabak starts playing and the defence gets a bit more settled over the next few weeks.
Begs the question then, with Liverpool seemingly at a cross roads with the Champions League in doubt with the revival of Chelsea and even Spurs aren't that far away either.
Is Klopp the man to rebuild them? That's one for the Liverpool fans really I suppose - I think the heart will rule the head but the more I see Klopp these days, the more I'm sure he's for the door in Summer.
It's actually insane it's being discussed I suppose, but there is a major job ahead for Liverpool and that is assuming they qualify for next years Champions League with the break up of the front 3 nearly certain.
There's no question Klopp is the man. Who could they possibly get that would be better, in terms of management, coaching and attracting players? Until the last couple of months, his Liverpool career has been non-stop, steady improvement. Unfortunately for him, injuries fucked him over this year. It happens. Pep went through similar last year and has had to rebuild as top players like Silva and Kompany moved on. Klopp won't have the same money to throw at it as Pep, but then again, neither would any other manager they could bring in.
No concerns whatsoever for me about Klopp's ability to get Liverpool back on track.
Dublin were insane not to sack Jim Gavin in 2014
And so it is now with Liverpool and Klopp
Defo need rid of him
Quote from: sid waddell on February 09, 2021, 04:17:16 PM
Dublin were insane not to sack Jim Gavin in 2014
And so it is now with Liverpool and Klopp
Defo need rid of him
He could be joining your mate Frank Lampard on the scrapheap soon alright ;)
On the Klopp v Guardiola debate.
Would Klopp have won the same amount of league titles as Guardiola if he was Manchester City manager? I think so and he'd do better in the Champions league. In 4 seasons Pep hasn't even led City to a semi final.
Would Guardiola have won the league and Champions league if he was Liverpool manager the last two years? League title perhaps, Champions league very doubtful going by his record with City and Bayern Munich the last 10 years.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 09, 2021, 04:59:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 09, 2021, 04:17:16 PM
Dublin were insane not to sack Jim Gavin in 2014
And so it is now with Liverpool and Klopp
Defo need rid of him
He could be joining your mate Frank Lampard on the scrapheap soon alright ;)
I miss Frank
Especially because under Tuchel Chelsea are almost certainly going to go on a long winning run and finish second
Frank was doing such a great job, providing wonderful entertainment every week
Guardiola is a fraud. A chequebook manager that only manages rich clubs or the top team in their respective country. Hasn't proven himself like Klopp has bringing titles to Dortmund and Liverpool and getting Mainz promoted. You cannot compare Guardiola to Klopp.
Given some of his previous posts you can't even be sure he's on a wind up :o
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on February 09, 2021, 07:46:44 PM
Guardiola is a fraud. A chequebook manager that only manages rich clubs or the top team in their respective country. Hasn't proven himself like Klopp has bringing titles to Dortmund and Liverpool and getting Mainz promoted. You cannot compare Guardiola to Klopp.
Wonder how much did Iniesta, Xavi and Messi cost between them?
Quote from: mouview on February 09, 2021, 08:05:30 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on February 09, 2021, 07:46:44 PM
Guardiola is a fraud. A chequebook manager that only manages rich clubs or the top team in their respective country. Hasn't proven himself like Klopp has bringing titles to Dortmund and Liverpool and getting Mainz promoted. You cannot compare Guardiola to Klopp.
Wonder how much did Iniesta, Xavi and Messi cost between them?
Zero. They came through the academy. You already know that.
Not sure how that is relevant though.
Guardiola has specifically cited they were the reason they won so many trophies, they were already the top team in Spain.
Klopp's not even the best manager in Liverpool.
Rodgers in fairness to him has his Leicester in a better position than Liverpool and they are difficult to beat.
Rodgers lost some limelight when he played away from home ;)
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on February 09, 2021, 07:46:44 PM
Guardiola is a fraud.
He's not a patch on Frank Lampard or Stephen Kenny
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on February 09, 2021, 08:14:46 PM
Quote from: mouview on February 09, 2021, 08:05:30 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on February 09, 2021, 07:46:44 PM
Guardiola is a fraud. A chequebook manager that only manages rich clubs or the top team in their respective country. Hasn't proven himself like Klopp has bringing titles to Dortmund and Liverpool and getting Mainz promoted. You cannot compare Guardiola to Klopp.
Wonder how much did Iniesta, Xavi and Messi cost between them?
Zero. They came through the academy. You already know that.
Not sure how that is relevant though.
Guardiola has specifically cited they were the reason they won so many trophies, they were already the top team in Spain.
Barca had gone two years without a trophy before Pep "the fraud" turned them into what many call the best club team of all time (without spending massive amounts)
Quote from: maldini on February 09, 2021, 10:51:17 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on February 09, 2021, 08:14:46 PM
Quote from: mouview on February 09, 2021, 08:05:30 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on February 09, 2021, 07:46:44 PM
Guardiola is a fraud. A chequebook manager that only manages rich clubs or the top team in their respective country. Hasn't proven himself like Klopp has bringing titles to Dortmund and Liverpool and getting Mainz promoted. You cannot compare Guardiola to Klopp.
Wonder how much did Iniesta, Xavi and Messi cost between them?
Zero. They came through the academy. You already know that.
Not sure how that is relevant though.
Guardiola has specifically cited they were the reason they won so many trophies, they were already the top team in Spain.
Barca had gone two years without a trophy before Pep "the fraud" turned them into what many call the best club team of all time (without spending massive amounts)
The two seasons didn't go well for them because Rijkaard was finished at that stage. Having said that they were still a top side, 2007 they missed out on the title on points difference the year after winning CL and then rijkaard made a mess of it in 2008.
Guardiola then came in and signed players like Dani Alves, Pique, Ibrahimovic, David Villa and Mascherano, all within a few seasons. All big signings for an already top side. Proves my point. Chequebook manager who only manages top/rich clubs.
Pep is a fraud?
Goodness me. A new low for this thread.
Like him or not, you must respect what he's done for the game and how he done it. Yes he can be somewhat unlikeable...but fraud? No.
Yes he inherited some players, but they are not the players we know now. Then. He bombed out Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Ibrahimovic and created a dynasty.
He is far from a fraud.
Just look at Sterling & KDB and how they he has improved working under Pep.
Michael Schumacher was a fraud
He wouldn't have won seven world championships had he been driving a Ford Fiesta
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 10:00:50 AM
Pep is a fraud?
Goodness me. A new low for this thread.
Like him or not, you must respect what he's done for the game and how he done it. Yes he can be somewhat unlikeable...but fraud? No.
Yes he inherited some players, but they are not the players we know now. Then. He bombed out Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Ibrahimovic and created a dynasty.
It's funny how people say Pep is a genius because of that Barcelona side, yet nobody mentions Del Bosque, who won the World Cup and two Euros with practically the same team, and over a longer period of time.
Quote from: BennyCake on February 10, 2021, 10:21:46 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 10:00:50 AM
Pep is a fraud?
Goodness me. A new low for this thread.
Like him or not, you must respect what he's done for the game and how he done it. Yes he can be somewhat unlikeable...but fraud? No.
Yes he inherited some players, but they are not the players we know now. Then. He bombed out Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Ibrahimovic and created a dynasty.
It's funny how people say Pep is a genius because of that Barcelona side, yet nobody mentions Del Bosque, who won the World Cup and two Euros with practically the same team, and over a longer period of time.
Del Bosque is widely considered to be a superb manager
What he was not was somebody at the cutting edge of systemic football thought - Pep and Klopp are, as is Bielsa
Del Bosque was perfect for Real Madrid in that he was extremely good at managing massive egos - which the Real Madrid dressing room is always full of - and turning them into a happy team
He did something similar with Spain using a watered down version of the Barcelona system, built around Barcelona players
As a man manager he was one of the very best
It's not a coincidence that the most successful Real Madrid managers of the modern era - Del Bosque, Ancelotti and Zidane, have all been more focussed on the man management side than the tactical side, their main strengths are who they were and are
All carried quiet authority but were chilled out and players liked them, whereas the Madrid players hated Mourinho and Benitez who were systemic football thinkers
Zidane for instance is no superb, cutting edge tactician and coach like Pep or Klopp, but like Del Bosque he has what it takes to salve massive egos and create a happy atmosphere within a team, which is extremely important at Real Madrid given it's probably the most pressurised environment to play in in the world
Quote from: BennyCake on February 10, 2021, 10:21:46 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 10:00:50 AM
Pep is a fraud?
Goodness me. A new low for this thread.
Like him or not, you must respect what he's done for the game and how he done it. Yes he can be somewhat unlikeable...but fraud? No.
Yes he inherited some players, but they are not the players we know now. Then. He bombed out Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Ibrahimovic and created a dynasty.
It's funny how people say Pep is a genius because of that Barcelona side, yet nobody mentions Del Bosque, who won the World Cup and two Euros with practically the same team, and over a longer period of time.
Or Luis Enrique for his 2015 all conquering Barca team.
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 10:42:07 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 10, 2021, 10:21:46 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 10:00:50 AM
Pep is a fraud?
Goodness me. A new low for this thread.
Like him or not, you must respect what he's done for the game and how he done it. Yes he can be somewhat unlikeable...but fraud? No.
Yes he inherited some players, but they are not the players we know now. Then. He bombed out Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Ibrahimovic and created a dynasty.
It's funny how people say Pep is a genius because of that Barcelona side, yet nobody mentions Del Bosque, who won the World Cup and two Euros with practically the same team, and over a longer period of time.
Del Bosque is widely considered to be a superb manager
What he was not was somebody at the cutting edge of systemic football thought - Pep and Klopp are, as is Bielsa
Del Bosque was perfect for Real Madrid in that he was extremely good at managing massive egos - which the Real Madrid dressing room is always full of - and turning them into a happy team
He did something similar with Spain using a watered down version of the Barcelona system, built around Barcelona players
As a man manager he was one of the very best
It's not a coincidence that the most successful Real Madrid managers of the modern era - Del Bosque, Ancelotti and Zidane, have all been more focussed on the man management side than the tactical side, their main strengths are who they were and are
All carried quiet authority but were chilled out and players liked them, whereas the Madrid players hated Mourinho and Benitez who were systemic football thinkers
Zidane for instance is no superb, cutting edge tactician and coach like Pep or Klopp, but like Del Bosque he has what it takes to salve massive egos and create a happy atmosphere within a team, which is extremely important at Real Madrid given it's probably the most pressurised environment to play in in the world
Exactly, there is a lot made of management - sometimes you just have to throw the arm round them and give them the reason to fight.
There is more than one way to skin a cat, I admire Klopp for what he did with Liverpool, I admire Pep for what he did at City and Barca. I've admired Mourinho for years, despite some of his antics. Great managers. I won't go mad arguing over who is better, I have my opinion but I'm willing to hear others views at the same time but what I will argue is that people who just throw out "Pep is a fraud", so lazy and just something you would read on twitter for a few likes or retweets.
The man (re)created a new philosophy on how to play the game. You don't have to like it, but you must respect it.
I agree with all that post except the Mourinho bit. I find him an appalling individual.
Mourinho has to be respected for what he achieved at Porto and Chelsea.
But after that it has been a shitshow at club after club
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 09, 2021, 08:27:10 PM
Rodgers in fairness to him has his Leicester in a better position than Liverpool and they are difficult to beat.
Rodgers lost some limelight when he played away from home ;)
At this very moment in time yes. I was referring more to where he was at in his managerial career during his Liverpool spell. He is a good coach/manager and no doubt has learnt a lot since then.
Quote from: Taylor on February 10, 2021, 11:56:50 AM
Mourinho has to be respected for what he achieved at Porto and Chelsea.
But after that it has been a shitshow at club after club
I guess it's his general behaviour more than anything. He definitely at one stage knew how to get results though I do think he's a busted flush as he turns on his players when things aren't going well and they in turn turn on him.
Quote from: Taylor on February 10, 2021, 11:56:50 AM
Mourinho has to be respected for what he achieved at Porto and Chelsea.
But after that it has been a shitshow at club after club
A yesterdays man. When he burst on the scene the confidence the football even as a Utd fan you had to respect that. But the football got worse and his confidence didn't translate into winning football matches. He seemed to alienate players time and again. He will ruin Spurs.
Quote from: Taylor on February 10, 2021, 11:56:50 AM
Mourinho has to be respected for what he achieved at Porto and Chelsea.
But after that it has been a shitshow at club after club
Was hardly a shitshow at Inter?
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 10:00:50 AM
Pep is a fraud?
Goodness me. A new low for this thread.
Like him or not, you must respect what he's done for the game and how he done it. Yes he can be somewhat unlikeable...but fraud? No.
Yes he inherited some players, but they are not the players we know now. Then. He bombed out Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Ibrahimovic and created a dynasty.
One poster called him a fraud.
Didn't Pep buy Zlatan in the first place?
He's a top manager but never had to work in difficult circumstances like Klopp has had too.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on February 10, 2021, 01:16:21 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 10:00:50 AM
Pep is a fraud?
Goodness me. A new low for this thread.
Like him or not, you must respect what he's done for the game and how he done it. Yes he can be somewhat unlikeable...but fraud? No.
Yes he inherited some players, but they are not the players we know now. Then. He bombed out Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Ibrahimovic and created a dynasty.
One poster called him a fraud.
Didn't Pep buy Zlatan in the first place?
He's a top manager but never had to work in difficult circumstances like Klopp has had too.
Klopp got it handy enough in fairness. The Firmino sale got them VVD. They bought players. He hasn't taken Fleetwood from the 4th tier to Champions League in Football Manager.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 10:00:50 AM
Pep is a fraud?
Goodness me. A new low for this thread.
Like him or not, you must respect what he's done for the game and how he done it. Yes he can be somewhat unlikeable...but fraud? No.
Yes he inherited some players, but they are not the players we know now. Then. He bombed out Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Ibrahimovic and created a dynasty.
Quote from: Taylor on February 10, 2021, 10:04:53 AM
He is far from a fraud.
Just look at Sterling & KDB and how they he has improved working under Pep.
How he did it? What by managing only the best and richest teams in each country he has been? Big Sam would win the league with those Barça and Bayern teams ffs. Then coming into an already top Man City team and spending the guts of a billion quid and every one thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread. Where was his CL for Bayern? Where is his CL for City? A fraud of a manager that can't be compared to Klopp. Klopp came into sleeping giant clubs and brought them back to the top with a limited budget. Pep comes into top clubs with blank chequebooks. Maybe he should go to a Valencia or an AC Milan now and prove himself, and win a Champions League and league with that level of club, and then we'll talk.
Quote from: trailer on February 10, 2021, 01:19:48 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on February 10, 2021, 01:16:21 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 10:00:50 AM
Pep is a fraud?
Goodness me. A new low for this thread.
Like him or not, you must respect what he's done for the game and how he done it. Yes he can be somewhat unlikeable...but fraud? No.
Yes he inherited some players, but they are not the players we know now. Then. He bombed out Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Ibrahimovic and created a dynasty.
One poster called him a fraud.
Didn't Pep buy Zlatan in the first place?
He's a top manager but never had to work in difficult circumstances like Klopp has had too.
Klopp got it handy enough in fairness. The Firmino sale got them VVD. They bought players. He hasn't taken Fleetwood from the 4th tier to Champions League in Football Manager.
Plenty of other Liverpool managers (and managers of other clubs) have spent big and brought in top players, yet failed to win, or come close to winning, either of the big two trophies.
But yeah, Pep certainly isn't a fraud either.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on February 10, 2021, 01:25:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 10:00:50 AM
Pep is a fraud?
Goodness me. A new low for this thread.
Like him or not, you must respect what he's done for the game and how he done it. Yes he can be somewhat unlikeable...but fraud? No.
Yes he inherited some players, but they are not the players we know now. Then. He bombed out Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Ibrahimovic and created a dynasty.
Quote from: Taylor on February 10, 2021, 10:04:53 AM
He is far from a fraud.
Just look at Sterling & KDB and how they he has improved working under Pep.
How he did it? What by managing only the best and richest teams in each country he has been? Big Sam would win the league with those Barça and Bayern teams ffs. Then coming into an already top Man City team and spending the guts of a billion quid and every one thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread. Where was his CL for Bayern? Where is his CL for City? A fraud of a manager that can't be compared to Klopp. Klopp came into sleeping giant clubs and brought them back to the top with a limited budget. Pep comes into top clubs with blank chequebooks. Maybe he should go to a Valencia or an AC Milan now and prove himself, and win a Champions League and league with that level of club, and then we'll talk.
He made VVD the most expensive defender in the world. He spent money. They all do. Some spend more than others but this notion that it a few loans, a couple of youth players a bit savy in the transfer market is nonsense. They all buy players, some work out better than others that's the reality.
But I do agree that Pep is a money manager. Not sure I'd call him a fraud.
In order to win you need to spend and spend big. Simples.
See that Klopps mother died in Germany in January and was buried yesterday. With covid restrictions in Germany he wasn't allowed travel for funeral or prior to death.
A tough situation as he clearly an emotional person.
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2021, 01:41:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 10, 2021, 01:19:48 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on February 10, 2021, 01:16:21 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 10:00:50 AM
Pep is a fraud?
Goodness me. A new low for this thread.
Like him or not, you must respect what he's done for the game and how he done it. Yes he can be somewhat unlikeable...but fraud? No.
Yes he inherited some players, but they are not the players we know now. Then. He bombed out Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Ibrahimovic and created a dynasty.
One poster called him a fraud.
Didn't Pep buy Zlatan in the first place?
He's a top manager but never had to work in difficult circumstances like Klopp has had too.
Klopp got it handy enough in fairness. The Firmino sale got them VVD. They bought players. He hasn't taken Fleetwood from the 4th tier to Champions League in Football Manager.
Plenty of other Liverpool managers (and managers of other clubs) have spent big and brought in top players, yet failed to win, or come close to winning, either of the big two trophies.
But yeah, Pep certainly isn't a fraud either.
Totally. Some managers spend a fortune for nothing look at UTD with LVG. Complete disaster. JM at UTD was the same. Bought a load and then refused to play them the narcissist. Klopp definitely has got the best out this group at Liverpool and that's to be commended but all clubs spend money and lots of it. Klopp spend £70m on a keeper. 80m on a defender. These aren't inconsequential fees.
Quote from: trailer on February 10, 2021, 01:44:00 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on February 10, 2021, 01:25:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 10:00:50 AM
Pep is a fraud?
Goodness me. A new low for this thread.
Like him or not, you must respect what he's done for the game and how he done it. Yes he can be somewhat unlikeable...but fraud? No.
Yes he inherited some players, but they are not the players we know now. Then. He bombed out Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Ibrahimovic and created a dynasty.
Quote from: Taylor on February 10, 2021, 10:04:53 AM
He is far from a fraud.
Just look at Sterling & KDB and how they he has improved working under Pep.
How he did it? What by managing only the best and richest teams in each country he has been? Big Sam would win the league with those Barça and Bayern teams ffs. Then coming into an already top Man City team and spending the guts of a billion quid and every one thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread. Where was his CL for Bayern? Where is his CL for City? A fraud of a manager that can't be compared to Klopp. Klopp came into sleeping giant clubs and brought them back to the top with a limited budget. Pep comes into top clubs with blank chequebooks. Maybe he should go to a Valencia or an AC Milan now and prove himself, and win a Champions League and league with that level of club, and then we'll talk.
He made VVD the most expensive defender in the world. He spent money. They all do. Some spend more than others but this notion that it a few loans, a couple of youth players a bit savy in the transfer market is nonsense. They all buy players, some work out better than others that's the reality.
But I do agree that Pep is a money manager. Not sure I'd call him a fraud.
In order to win you need to spend and spend big. Simples.
This is where your point isn't consistent, VVD and Alisson were both signed with the Coutinho money. Liverpool's net spend since Klopp has been in is just over 100m. Man City's net spend is almost 700m. So he has absolutely been savvy in the transfer market. Jurgen has done what he has done at Liverpool on 100m net spend and had to sell in order to buy, whereas pep has blank cheques and can afford to blow 400m on defenders. There is no comparison.
Quote from: Louther on February 10, 2021, 01:46:32 PM
See that Klopps mother died in Germany in January and was buried yesterday. With covid restrictions in Germany he wasn't allowed travel for funeral or prior to death.
A tough situation as he clearly an emotional person.
Didn't know she passed in January, thought it was today when the news broke. He's been going through a tough period on and off the pitch but never even mentioned what was going on at home. A selfless man, we're lucky to have him. Disgrace that he couldn't go home.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on February 10, 2021, 01:25:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 10:00:50 AM
Pep is a fraud?
Goodness me. A new low for this thread.
Like him or not, you must respect what he's done for the game and how he done it. Yes he can be somewhat unlikeable...but fraud? No.
Yes he inherited some players, but they are not the players we know now. Then. He bombed out Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Ibrahimovic and created a dynasty.
Quote from: Taylor on February 10, 2021, 10:04:53 AM
He is far from a fraud.
Just look at Sterling & KDB and how they he has improved working under Pep.
How he did it? What by managing only the best and richest teams in each country he has been? Big Sam would win the league with those Barça and Bayern teams ffs. Then coming into an already top Man City team and spending the guts of a billion quid and every one thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread. Where was his CL for Bayern? Where is his CL for City? A fraud of a manager that can't be compared to Klopp. Klopp came into sleeping giant clubs and brought them back to the top with a limited budget. Pep comes into top clubs with blank chequebooks. Maybe he should go to a Valencia or an AC Milan now and prove himself, and win a Champions League and league with that level of club, and then we'll talk.
The great thing about the CL is that you cannot buy it. Despite what people may say.....money doesn't equate to success in Europe. Look at Manchester United - 3 European Wins in their history, probably the richest club in the world? Certainly up there.
By your reasoning then, Roberto Di Matteo and Klopp must be relative equals with one Champs League win each? They are clearly in different stratospheres as managers. The point is, Europe is the peak of the peak. I hold it over the World Cup. Only one team can win it, is it always the best team in Europe wins the UCL? Definitely not. But that's what makes it so attractive. It makes so many brilliant stories.
You obviously have a problem with Guardiola, presumably either a Liverpool or Utd fan - I tend to see this a lot from both. I don't know why people can't give out a bit of praise instead of these twitter like look at me replies.
If you don't rate Pep as a manager fine, but to say he's only achieved what he has because of money is just wrong. No amount of money can get a team playing like he had Barca at their pomp - the proof is literally in the pudding, because all the world tried to copy it for the 5 or so years after that until Bayern came along with Jupp Heynckes and probably became for me, the best team to ever win the UCL. They were awesome that year.
You know when you've done what he did in the game at Barca only the best jobs will be available. How likely is it he's going to go to Valencia? Hugely unlikely. That's just the cycle of the game, he climbed the mountain - his reputation in football is already forever. So I doubt he'll do as you ask, but that won't change a thing on how history looks back on his career.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 01:57:31 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on February 10, 2021, 01:25:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 10:00:50 AM
Pep is a fraud?
Goodness me. A new low for this thread.
Like him or not, you must respect what he's done for the game and how he done it. Yes he can be somewhat unlikeable...but fraud? No.
Yes he inherited some players, but they are not the players we know now. Then. He bombed out Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Ibrahimovic and created a dynasty.
Quote from: Taylor on February 10, 2021, 10:04:53 AM
He is far from a fraud.
Just look at Sterling & KDB and how they he has improved working under Pep.
How he did it? What by managing only the best and richest teams in each country he has been? Big Sam would win the league with those Barça and Bayern teams ffs. Then coming into an already top Man City team and spending the guts of a billion quid and every one thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread. Where was his CL for Bayern? Where is his CL for City? A fraud of a manager that can't be compared to Klopp. Klopp came into sleeping giant clubs and brought them back to the top with a limited budget. Pep comes into top clubs with blank chequebooks. Maybe he should go to a Valencia or an AC Milan now and prove himself, and win a Champions League and league with that level of club, and then we'll talk.
The great thing about the CL is that you cannot buy it. Despite what people may say.....money doesn't equate to success in Europe. Look at Manchester United - 3 European Wins in their history, probably the richest club in the world? Certainly up there.
By your reasoning then, Roberto Di Matteo and Klopp must be relative equals with one Champs League win each? They are clearly in different stratospheres as managers. The point is, Europe is the peak of the peak. I hold it over the World Cup. Only one team can win it, is it always the best team in Europe wins the UCL? Definitely not. But that's what makes it so attractive. It makes so many brilliant stories.
You obviously have a problem with Guardiola, presumably either a Liverpool or Utd fan - I tend to see this a lot from both. I don't know why people can't give out a bit of praise instead of these twitter like look at me replies.
If you don't rate Pep as a manager fine, but to say he's only achieved what he has because of money is just wrong. No amount of money can get a team playing like he had Barca at their pomp - the proof is literally in the pudding, because all the world tried to copy it for the 5 or so years after that until Bayern came along with Jupp Heynckes and probably became for me, the best team to ever win the UCL. They were awesome that year.
You know when you've done what he did in the game at Barca only the best jobs will be available. How likely is it he's going to go to Valencia? Hugely unlikely. That's just the cycle of the game, he climbed the mountain - his reputation in football is already forever. So I doubt he'll do as you ask, but that won't change a thing on how history looks back on his career.
I agree on your point regarding CL, not always the best team that wins it but it's been what nearly ten years since he's won it, with those Bayern and City teams and the money behind them, some might even say he's bottled it on occasions, a poor return. I haven't a problem with him whatsoever, but in my opinion he doesn't deserve to be spoken in the same breath as klopp when you compare what both have done and how they've done it. Yes you're right he'll probably not go to a Valencia, and that's fine. But when he retires he'll be looked upon as a chequebook manager that only went to top clubs (not that he will care), whereas Klopp has proven himself at clubs who weren't at the top or super rich.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on February 10, 2021, 01:54:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 10, 2021, 01:44:00 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on February 10, 2021, 01:25:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 10:00:50 AM
Pep is a fraud?
Goodness me. A new low for this thread.
Like him or not, you must respect what he's done for the game and how he done it. Yes he can be somewhat unlikeable...but fraud? No.
Yes he inherited some players, but they are not the players we know now. Then. He bombed out Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Ibrahimovic and created a dynasty.
Quote from: Taylor on February 10, 2021, 10:04:53 AM
He is far from a fraud.
Just look at Sterling & KDB and how they he has improved working under Pep.
How he did it? What by managing only the best and richest teams in each country he has been? Big Sam would win the league with those Barça and Bayern teams ffs. Then coming into an already top Man City team and spending the guts of a billion quid and every one thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread. Where was his CL for Bayern? Where is his CL for City? A fraud of a manager that can't be compared to Klopp. Klopp came into sleeping giant clubs and brought them back to the top with a limited budget. Pep comes into top clubs with blank chequebooks. Maybe he should go to a Valencia or an AC Milan now and prove himself, and win a Champions League and league with that level of club, and then we'll talk.
He made VVD the most expensive defender in the world. He spent money. They all do. Some spend more than others but this notion that it a few loans, a couple of youth players a bit savy in the transfer market is nonsense. They all buy players, some work out better than others that's the reality.
But I do agree that Pep is a money manager. Not sure I'd call him a fraud.
In order to win you need to spend and spend big. Simples.
This is where your point isn't consistent, VVD and Alisson were both signed with the Coutinho money. Liverpool's net spend since Klopp has been in is just over 100m. Man City's net spend is almost 700m. So he has absolutely been savvy in the transfer market. Jurgen has done what he has done at Liverpool on 100m net spend and had to sell in order to buy, whereas pep has blank cheques and can afford to blow 400m on defenders. There is no comparison.
Dunno if that makes him a better or worse manager than Pep though.
Neymar to PSG was the catalyst. Without that Money VVD probably doesn't happen and Klopp is just another underachieving Liverpool manager.
Quote from: trailer on February 10, 2021, 02:10:08 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on February 10, 2021, 01:54:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 10, 2021, 01:44:00 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on February 10, 2021, 01:25:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 10:00:50 AM
Pep is a fraud?
Goodness me. A new low for this thread.
Like him or not, you must respect what he's done for the game and how he done it. Yes he can be somewhat unlikeable...but fraud? No.
Yes he inherited some players, but they are not the players we know now. Then. He bombed out Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Ibrahimovic and created a dynasty.
Quote from: Taylor on February 10, 2021, 10:04:53 AM
He is far from a fraud.
Just look at Sterling & KDB and how they he has improved working under Pep.
How he did it? What by managing only the best and richest teams in each country he has been? Big Sam would win the league with those Barça and Bayern teams ffs. Then coming into an already top Man City team and spending the guts of a billion quid and every one thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread. Where was his CL for Bayern? Where is his CL for City? A fraud of a manager that can't be compared to Klopp. Klopp came into sleeping giant clubs and brought them back to the top with a limited budget. Pep comes into top clubs with blank chequebooks. Maybe he should go to a Valencia or an AC Milan now and prove himself, and win a Champions League and league with that level of club, and then we'll talk.
He made VVD the most expensive defender in the world. He spent money. They all do. Some spend more than others but this notion that it a few loans, a couple of youth players a bit savy in the transfer market is nonsense. They all buy players, some work out better than others that's the reality.
But I do agree that Pep is a money manager. Not sure I'd call him a fraud.
In order to win you need to spend and spend big. Simples.
This is where your point isn't consistent, VVD and Alisson were both signed with the Coutinho money. Liverpool's net spend since Klopp has been in is just over 100m. Man City's net spend is almost 700m. So he has absolutely been savvy in the transfer market. Jurgen has done what he has done at Liverpool on 100m net spend and had to sell in order to buy, whereas pep has blank cheques and can afford to blow 400m on defenders. There is no comparison.
Dunno if that makes him a better or worse manager than Pep though.
Neymar to PSG was the catalyst. Without that Money VVD probably doesn't happen and Klopp is just another underachieving Liverpool manager.
What? It hardly makes him worse, the fact that klopps done what he's done to clubs at a lower level with a fraction of the money, and having to sell in order to buy. Obviously more impressive.
Not quite on that one either, Klopp got Liverpool to European and domestic finals that we hadn't been to in years before those two players even came in through the door.
I think Pep's been both unlucky and too smart for his own good in the CL, at least with City.
A couple of dodgy decisions went against him against both Spurs and Liverpool, which could have been decisive.
Other times he has fiddled around with the formation and line-up far too much instead of just playing his normal side. No way they should have been beaten last year by an inferior Lyon team, but that was completely his own fault.
That was a strange one last year by Pep alright. That would be something over the years I would throw at him too, maybe he overthinks it too much. Klopp would send the lads out, roaring. Pep you get the feeling spends hours and hour analysing things to death.
The Spurs decision especially. But, he got a right slice of luck himself against Chelsea in 2009.
The Champions League is a great competition. I hope they never go down the European Super League path. I love the knockout stages.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on February 10, 2021, 01:25:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 10:00:50 AM
Pep is a fraud?
Goodness me. A new low for this thread.
Like him or not, you must respect what he's done for the game and how he done it. Yes he can be somewhat unlikeable...but fraud? No.
Yes he inherited some players, but they are not the players we know now. Then. He bombed out Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Ibrahimovic and created a dynasty.
Quote from: Taylor on February 10, 2021, 10:04:53 AM
He is far from a fraud.
Just look at Sterling & KDB and how they he has improved working under Pep.
How he did it? What by managing only the best and richest teams in each country he has been? Big Sam would win the league with those Barça and Bayern teams ffs. Then coming into an already top Man City team and spending the guts of a billion quid and every one thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread. Where was his CL for Bayern? Where is his CL for City? A fraud of a manager that can't be compared to Klopp. Klopp came into sleeping giant clubs and brought them back to the top with a limited budget. Pep comes into top clubs with blank chequebooks. Maybe he should go to a Valencia or an AC Milan now and prove himself, and win a Champions League and league with that level of club, and then we'll talk.
Yup, agree with that.
Every manager who has won less than four European Cups is a fraud
Liverpool 3 0 today lads. Mane first goalscorer. Benny and Leicester usually the toilet against the pool
Any streams for this? My usual ones are not showing
https://t.co/ZMHOWOeQZY?amp=1
Quick rule question on Jones's yellow card in the first half for Liverpool today.
The sequence of play:
Leicester are breaking, Jones pulls back the attacking ball player. Ref plays advantage, but was clearly going to award a yellow once play stopped.
Before play stops, Jones again fouls the attacker to cut out the attack (for another yellow-worthy offence). This time it works. Play stops, ref awards yellow.
My question is since both fouls were yellows, could the referee have been within his rights to award yellows for each foul? Or do the rules not allow for this?
My complete guess is that he would be entitled to give him two yellow cards but he'd have some balls on him to do it
Quote from: Boycey on February 13, 2021, 01:33:56 PM
My complete guess is that he would be entitled to give him two yellow cards but he'd have some balls on him to do it
Yeah, that was kind of what I thought.
Yet another goal of the season contender from the champions
Well it would be a goal of the season contender in any other season, but it's probably only around mid-table in Mo Salah's portfolio for this season
What a player
Liverpool need to sign Loris Karius now
Does Alisson get an assist for the second one? 🤔
Quote from: delgany on February 13, 2021, 12:56:37 PM
https://t.co/ZMHOWOeQZY?amp=1
Thanks, it's been great viewing so far!!
Great new signing and keeper still having brain farts!!
Mo and Bobby's goal was something else
VAR still getting people talking
Liverpool absolutely bossed that game for 80mins and were well worth their 1 goal lead.
That VAR decision to give the Leicester goal then changed it completely.
Crazy game.
Liverpool remind me of Donegal in 2013. Collapsing spectacularly.
Quote from: GJL on February 13, 2021, 02:16:02 PM
Does Alisson get an assist for the second one? 🤔
He should maybe leave, change his name, come back and see if anyone notices
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on February 13, 2021, 02:25:06 PM
Quote from: GJL on February 13, 2021, 02:16:02 PM
Does Alisson get an assist for the second one? 🤔
He should maybe leave, change his name, come back and see if anyone notices
He doesn't have quite as good a name as Billy Burns for doing that
A game like last Sunday that heading towards a 1-1 draw until Allison chose to intervene again.
I say this with the benefit of hindsight, but Liverpool would be in a better place if they'd stuck with Henderson and Fabinho in midfield and trusted their young centre halves.
Mind you, you'd think they were the only team ever had an injury!
Quote from: Captain Obvious on February 13, 2021, 02:56:31 PM
A game like last Sunday that heading towards a 1-1 draw until Allison chose to intervene again.
it was heading towards a 1-0 to be fair. That VAR call could have gone either way IMO.
Quote from: Sportacus on February 13, 2021, 02:59:01 PM
I say this with the benefit of hindsight, but Liverpool would be in a better place if they'd stuck with Henderson and Fabinho in midfield and trusted their young centre halves.
Mind you, you'd think they were the only team ever had an injury!
An injury...............
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on February 13, 2021, 03:00:57 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 13, 2021, 02:59:01 PM
I say this with the benefit of hindsight, but Liverpool would be in a better place if they'd stuck with Henderson and Fabinho in midfield and trusted their young centre halves.
Mind you, you'd think they were the only team ever had an injury!
An injury...............
It's a squad game nowadays, fail to prepare, prepare to fail
Quote from: Dearg on February 13, 2021, 02:59:06 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on February 13, 2021, 02:56:31 PM
A game like last Sunday that heading towards a 1-1 draw until Allison chose to intervene again.
it was heading towards a 1-0 to be fair. That VAR call could have gone either way IMO.
Lucky it wasn't a penalty instead of free kick. VAR rarely overrule the on field ref when not a clear and obvious error.
If liverpool finish outside of the top 4, but win the CL, does 4th place lose out on CL qualification?
Alisson costs Liverpool again. No communication with Kabak, has to make sure that the defender knows not go for it or else stay in his goal. Had another brain fart shortly after when instead of letting a long ball runs into his box and pick it up he'd kicked it straight back to Leicester. (Not sure if that lead to the build up for Leicester's 3rd goal. Don't think it did) He'd need to sort himself out fast.
First time I've genuinely thought Liverpool may not make top 4 given their current form and the Chelsea revival under Tuchel.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 03:06:06 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on February 13, 2021, 03:00:57 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 13, 2021, 02:59:01 PM
I say this with the benefit of hindsight, but Liverpool would be in a better place if they'd stuck with Henderson and Fabinho in midfield and trusted their young centre halves.
Mind you, you'd think they were the only team ever had an injury!
An injury...............
It's a squad game nowadays, fail to prepare, prepare to fail
Count the injuries MR2 when ye get a chance. Add 3 from the last matchday alone. First 4 (four) choice centre halves out. 3 for the season. But aye fail to prepare blah blah
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on February 13, 2021, 03:19:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 03:06:06 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on February 13, 2021, 03:00:57 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 13, 2021, 02:59:01 PM
I say this with the benefit of hindsight, but Liverpool would be in a better place if they'd stuck with Henderson and Fabinho in midfield and trusted their young centre halves.
Mind you, you'd think they were the only team ever had an injury!
An injury...............
It's a squad game nowadays, fail to prepare, prepare to fail
Count the injuries MR2 when ye get a chance. Add 3 from the last matchday alone. First 4 (four) choice centre halves out. 3 for the season. But aye fail to prepare blah blah
The possession and control in that game was enough to win two games. Injuries didn't lose that game
But we were talking about squads and failing to prepare or something....
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on February 13, 2021, 03:32:50 PM
But we were talking about squads and failing to prepare or something....
Failing to replace long term injuries in January is poor by Liverpool, playing your best midfielder in defence when they have real defenders is another mistake.
But anyways, long may it continue
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 03:06:06 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on February 13, 2021, 03:00:57 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 13, 2021, 02:59:01 PM
I say this with the benefit of hindsight, but Liverpool would be in a better place if they'd stuck with Henderson and Fabinho in midfield and trusted their young centre halves.
Mind you, you'd think they were the only team ever had an injury!
An injury...............
It's a squad game nowadays, fail to prepare, prepare to fail
What do you do when a third of the squad is injured?
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 13, 2021, 06:06:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 03:06:06 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on February 13, 2021, 03:00:57 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 13, 2021, 02:59:01 PM
I say this with the benefit of hindsight, but Liverpool would be in a better place if they'd stuck with Henderson and Fabinho in midfield and trusted their young centre halves.
Mind you, you'd think they were the only team ever had an injury!
An injury...............
It's a squad game nowadays, fail to prepare, prepare to fail
What do you do when a third of the squad is injured?
Well January was only recently so you bring in players during that transfer window, and play them? Release your better players like Henderson into his main position.
Man City players love rolling around screaming .
Poor goalkeeping by Lloris on both Manchester City goals.
Just give City the trophy, there is absolutely nobody catching them.
They have been most impressive this season.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on February 13, 2021, 03:09:53 PM
Quote from: Dearg on February 13, 2021, 02:59:06 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on February 13, 2021, 02:56:31 PM
A game like last Sunday that heading towards a 1-1 draw until Allison chose to intervene again.
it was heading towards a 1-0 to be fair. That VAR call could have gone either way IMO.
Lucky it wasn't a penalty instead of free kick. VAR rarely overrule the on field ref when not a clear and obvious error.
True it could very easily have been given as a penalty, but a penalty isn't an automatic goal so my point stands.
On your other point though VAR did overrule the officials for the goal as the linesman had waved for offside didn't he?
Quote from: Dearg on February 13, 2021, 07:33:08 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on February 13, 2021, 03:09:53 PM
Quote from: Dearg on February 13, 2021, 02:59:06 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on February 13, 2021, 02:56:31 PM
A game like last Sunday that heading towards a 1-1 draw until Allison chose to intervene again.
it was heading towards a 1-0 to be fair. That VAR call could have gone either way IMO.
Lucky it wasn't a penalty instead of free kick. VAR rarely overrule the on field ref when not a clear and obvious error.
True it could very easily have been given as a penalty, but a penalty isn't an automatic goal so my point stands.
On your other point though VAR did overrule the officials for the goal as the linesman had waved for offside didn't he?
Onside/offside decisions are regularly overruled. Less so penalties when on field refs gives them.
Klopp looked like a broken man in the interview I saw afterwards.
A lot of people online taking glee in it.
Can't be easy on him losing his mother and not being able to grieve properly and not being able attend her funeral. He is only human after all.
Why must some turn everything into a ha ha lol look at him situation. Some very odd and screwed up people out there.
Quote from: Dearg on February 13, 2021, 07:51:02 PM
Klopp looked like a broken man in the interview I saw afterwards.
A lot of people online taking glee in it.
Can't be easy on him losing his mother and not being able to grieve properly and not being able attend her funeral. He is only human after all.
Why must some turn everything into a ha ha lol look at him situation. Some very odd and screwed up people out there.
Likely the same people that are screaming for an end to lockdown because "mental health"
Quote from: Dearg on February 13, 2021, 07:51:02 PM
Klopp looked like a broken man in the interview I saw afterwards.
A lot of people online taking glee in it.
Can't be easy on him losing his mother and not being able to grieve properly and not being able attend her funeral. He is only human after all.
Why must some turn everything into a ha ha lol look at him situation. Some very odd and screwed up people out there.
Anyone that takes pleasure in the loss of a parent needs a good beating.
Quote from: Dearg on February 13, 2021, 06:53:24 PM
Just give City the trophy, there is absolutely nobody catching them.
They have been most impressive this season.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/02/13/manchester-city-vs-tottenham-premier-league-live-score-latest/
Tottenham were top of the Premier League, five points clear of a City side languishing in ninth position, the last time these two teams met in early November but their trajectories have been diametrically opposed ever since and this mismatch merely reaffirmed why the gulf - in quality and points - is now so great.
Victory moved City seven points ahead of Leicester at the top of the table, with a game still in hand, and 17 clear of Spurs, who, after a fourth defeat in five in the competition, are watching their Champions League hopes fade by the week. Too much more of this and Jose Mourinho's job might also come under threat.
Didn't City have about three games in hand over Spurs back then?
Quote from: Dearg on February 13, 2021, 06:53:24 PM
Just give City the trophy, there is absolutely nobody catching them.
They have been most impressive this season.
Most impressive in their last 11 league games (won every game and conceded just 2 goals)
Previous 12 league games W5 D5 L2 even I was even wondering at the time in that inconsistent form were they going to mount a title challenge. Some turnaround since mid December and they should win the title with a few games to spare now.
DeGea, Lloris, Allison - blunder after blunder. Strange to see so many way off form at the one time.
Quote from: Sportacus on February 13, 2021, 10:07:02 PM
DeGea, Lloris, Allison - blunder after blunder. Strange to see so many way off form at the one time.
Lloris and Allison yeah, De Gea has made none.
Allison has morphed into the turd-keeper so synonymous with LFC for the past 30 years
Quote from: nrico2006 on February 13, 2021, 10:18:30 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 13, 2021, 10:07:02 PM
DeGea, Lloris, Allison - blunder after blunder. Strange to see so many way off form at the one time.
Lloris and Allison yeah, De Gea has made none.
True it's just standard poor form by De De at this stage. Just turned into a poor keeper.
Quote from: Dearg on February 13, 2021, 07:51:02 PM
Klopp looked like a broken man in the interview I saw afterwards.
A lot of people online taking glee in it.
Can't be easy on him losing his mother and not being able to grieve properly and not being able attend her funeral. He is only human after all.
Why must some turn everything into a ha ha lol look at him situation. Some very odd and screwed up people out there.
Haven't seen anyone mocking him since the news of his mother came out. I'm a United fan and I can not stand the man, but it's absolutely disgusting that he can't go to her funeral and wouldnt wish that on anyone.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 10:21:43 AM
Quote from: Dearg on February 13, 2021, 07:51:02 PM
Klopp looked like a broken man in the interview I saw afterwards.
A lot of people online taking glee in it.
Can't be easy on him losing his mother and not being able to grieve properly and not being able attend her funeral. He is only human after all.
Why must some turn everything into a ha ha lol look at him situation. Some very odd and screwed up people out there.
Haven't seen anyone mocking him since the news of his mother came out. I'm a United fan and I can not stand the man, but it's absolutely disgusting that he can't go to her funeral and wouldnt wish that on anyone.
Why can you not 'stand the man' ?
What has he ever done to you? Is it simply because you support Manchester United?
What a strange way to be. If he was Manchester United manager you'd love him wouldn't you!
I can never understand this tribal nonsense.
I haven't seen anyone taking glee at Klopp's current situation (not saying its not out there, just its a function of who you follow on social media I guess).
I have seen a lot of people referring to posts, but most of them seem to be referring to Liverpool fans.
https://twitter.com/JamieWebster94/status/1360647367201091584?s=20
https://twitter.com/adamrowecomedy/status/1360720423651000325?s=20
https://twitter.com/Guggsey/status/1360615925549047813?s=20
https://twitter.com/em_sandy/status/1360626567186153474?s=20
Quote from: Dearg on February 14, 2021, 10:59:05 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 10:21:43 AM
Quote from: Dearg on February 13, 2021, 07:51:02 PM
Klopp looked like a broken man in the interview I saw afterwards.
A lot of people online taking glee in it.
Can't be easy on him losing his mother and not being able to grieve properly and not being able attend her funeral. He is only human after all.
Why must some turn everything into a ha ha lol look at him situation. Some very odd and screwed up people out there.
Haven't seen anyone mocking him since the news of his mother came out. I'm a United fan and I can not stand the man, but it's absolutely disgusting that he can't go to her funeral and wouldnt wish that on anyone.
Why can you not 'stand the man' ?
What has he ever done to you? Is it simply because you support Manchester United?
What a strange way to be. If he was Manchester United manager you'd love him wouldn't you!
I can never understand this tribal nonsense.
He rubs me up the wrong way. Maybe it is just him being a Liverpool manager but I just can't have his constant whining about refs, injuries and his arrogance in interviews. Fantastic manager (over a season or two at least)
Manchester United's poor run of form continues.
Well done West Brom a deserving point for them and they could have even won it with a couple of decent chances in that second half.
Watched the game and West Brom had chances to score another but Utd dominated a game but were left to rue chances they should have took.
Slab head at the end unlucky on 95 minute not to score.
Rashford needs a rest, abysmal today
Quote from: Dearg on February 14, 2021, 10:59:05 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 10:21:43 AM
Quote from: Dearg on February 13, 2021, 07:51:02 PM
Klopp looked like a broken man in the interview I saw afterwards.
A lot of people online taking glee in it.
Can't be easy on him losing his mother and not being able to grieve properly and not being able attend her funeral. He is only human after all.
Why must some turn everything into a ha ha lol look at him situation. Some very odd and screwed up people out there.
Haven't seen anyone mocking him since the news of his mother came out. I'm a United fan and I can not stand the man, but it's absolutely disgusting that he can't go to her funeral and wouldnt wish that on anyone.
Why can you not 'stand the man' ?
What has he ever done to you? Is it simply because you support Manchester United?
What a strange way to be. If he was Manchester United manager you'd love him wouldn't you!
I can never understand this tribal nonsense.
Irish man cannot stand a German man he's never met for managing a rival English soccer team....makes perfect sense ;D
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 03:59:06 PM
Watched the game and West Brom had chances to score another but Utd dominated a game but were left to rue chances they should have took.
Slab head at the end unlucky on 95 minute not to score.
Rashford needs a rest, abysmal today
That'll be an invitation for the Spectator to incite a racist pile on against him, like they need any invitation
Who is the biggest squealer when they are touched? I'll go for Azpilacueta, a real sickener.
Quote from: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 06:12:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 03:59:06 PM
Watched the game and West Brom had chances to score another but Utd dominated a game but were left to rue chances they should have took.
Slab head at the end unlucky on 95 minute not to score.
Rashford needs a rest, abysmal today
That'll be an invitation for the Spectator to incite a racist pile on against him, like they need any invitation
And here we go again, this is becoming a serious problem, online as always is the battleground of the racist filth
Qewan MacKenna will likely say "what's the problem, can you not tolerate diversity of opinion"
https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1361016924730187776
Anthony Martial was racially abused on social media after Manchester United's 1-1 draw with West Bromwich Albion.
Quote from: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 06:12:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 03:59:06 PM
Watched the game and West Brom had chances to score another but Utd dominated a game but were left to rue chances they should have took.
Slab head at the end unlucky on 95 minute not to score.
Rashford needs a rest, abysmal today
That'll be an invitation for the Spectator to incite a racist pile on against him, like they need any invitation
So don't say he was abysmal?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 06:47:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 06:12:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 03:59:06 PM
Watched the game and West Brom had chances to score another but Utd dominated a game but were left to rue chances they should have took.
Slab head at the end unlucky on 95 minute not to score.
Rashford needs a rest, abysmal today
That'll be an invitation for the Spectator to incite a racist pile on against him, like they need any invitation
So don't say he was abysmal?
I'm sure sid is well able to answer for himself, but I would imagine he is suggesting the Spectator article is coming because Rashford was abysmal, not because you wrote a post on gaaboard saying so
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 14, 2021, 08:54:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 06:47:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 06:12:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 03:59:06 PM
Watched the game and West Brom had chances to score another but Utd dominated a game but were left to rue chances they should have took.
Slab head at the end unlucky on 95 minute not to score.
Rashford needs a rest, abysmal today
That'll be an invitation for the Spectator to incite a racist pile on against him, like they need any invitation
So don't say he was abysmal?
I'm sure sid is well able to answer for himself, but I would imagine he is suggesting the Spectator article is coming because Rashford was abysmal, not because you wrote a post on gaaboard saying so
Slab head was abysmal also. DeGea needs shot
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 09:24:38 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 14, 2021, 08:54:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 06:47:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 06:12:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 03:59:06 PM
Watched the game and West Brom had chances to score another but Utd dominated a game but were left to rue chances they should have took.
Slab head at the end unlucky on 95 minute not to score.
Rashford needs a rest, abysmal today
That'll be an invitation for the Spectator to incite a racist pile on against him, like they need any invitation
So don't say he was abysmal?
I'm sure sid is well able to answer for himself, but I would imagine he is suggesting the Spectator article is coming because Rashford was abysmal, not because you wrote a post on gaaboard saying so
Slab head was abysmal also. DeGea needs shot
Is a threat of violence allowed on soccer threads? Very peculiar, if this is not reported.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 09:24:38 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 14, 2021, 08:54:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 06:47:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 06:12:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 03:59:06 PM
Watched the game and West Brom had chances to score another but Utd dominated a game but were left to rue chances they should have took.
Slab head at the end unlucky on 95 minute not to score.
Rashford needs a rest, abysmal today
That'll be an invitation for the Spectator to incite a racist pile on against him, like they need any invitation
So don't say he was abysmal?
I'm sure sid is well able to answer for himself, but I would imagine he is suggesting the Spectator article is coming because Rashford was abysmal, not because you wrote a post on gaaboard saying so
Slab head was abysmal also. DeGea needs shot
Was gonna ask who slab head was but I presume it's Harry Maguire who missed the header at the end.
A bit playgroundish that type of nickname all the same.
BTW, I thought he was ropey alright, along with Lindelof who was a bit timothy when yer man got all physical with him.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 15, 2021, 03:52:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 09:24:38 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 14, 2021, 08:54:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 06:47:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 06:12:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 03:59:06 PM
Watched the game and West Brom had chances to score another but Utd dominated a game but were left to rue chances they should have took.
Slab head at the end unlucky on 95 minute not to score.
Rashford needs a rest, abysmal today
That'll be an invitation for the Spectator to incite a racist pile on against him, like they need any invitation
So don't say he was abysmal?
I'm sure sid is well able to answer for himself, but I would imagine he is suggesting the Spectator article is coming because Rashford was abysmal, not because you wrote a post on gaaboard saying so
Slab head was abysmal also. DeGea needs shot
Was gonna ask who slab head was but I presume it's Harry Maguire who missed the header at the end.
A bit playgroundish that type of nickname all the same.
BTW, I thought he was ropey alright, along with Lindelof who was a bit timothy when yer man got all physical with him.
I love how slabhead is pointed out here as thing to be offended by but it's ok for De Gea to be shot 😂😂
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 15, 2021, 03:53:54 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 15, 2021, 03:52:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 09:24:38 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 14, 2021, 08:54:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 06:47:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 06:12:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 03:59:06 PM
Watched the game and West Brom had chances to score another but Utd dominated a game but were left to rue chances they should have took.
Slab head at the end unlucky on 95 minute not to score.
Rashford needs a rest, abysmal today
That'll be an invitation for the Spectator to incite a racist pile on against him, like they need any invitation
So don't say he was abysmal?
I'm sure sid is well able to answer for himself, but I would imagine he is suggesting the Spectator article is coming because Rashford was abysmal, not because you wrote a post on gaaboard saying so
Slab head was abysmal also. DeGea needs shot
Was gonna ask who slab head was but I presume it's Harry Maguire who missed the header at the end.
A bit playgroundish that type of nickname all the same.
BTW, I thought he was ropey alright, along with Lindelof who was a bit timothy when yer man got all physical with him.
I love how slabhead is pointed out here as thing to be offended by but it's ok for De Gea to be shot 😂😂
Only metaphorically speaking shot, not actually hire a hitman and head to Manchester ;D ;D
Some people are on the spectrum and struggle with humour
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2021, 04:05:23 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 15, 2021, 03:53:54 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 15, 2021, 03:52:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 09:24:38 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 14, 2021, 08:54:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 06:47:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 06:12:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 03:59:06 PM
Watched the game and West Brom had chances to score another but Utd dominated a game but were left to rue chances they should have took.
Slab head at the end unlucky on 95 minute not to score.
Rashford needs a rest, abysmal today
That'll be an invitation for the Spectator to incite a racist pile on against him, like they need any invitation
So don't say he was abysmal?
I'm sure sid is well able to answer for himself, but I would imagine he is suggesting the Spectator article is coming because Rashford was abysmal, not because you wrote a post on gaaboard saying so
Slab head was abysmal also. DeGea needs shot
Was gonna ask who slab head was but I presume it's Harry Maguire who missed the header at the end.
A bit playgroundish that type of nickname all the same.
BTW, I thought he was ropey alright, along with Lindelof who was a bit timothy when yer man got all physical with him.
I love how slabhead is pointed out here as thing to be offended by but it's ok for De Gea to be shot 😂😂
Only metaphorically speaking shot, not actually hire a hitman and head to Manchester ;D ;D
Some people are on the spectrum and struggle with humour
Do you remember the episode of Dream Team when they shot the CF at Wembley after the Cup final?
I watch some shit but Dream team wasn't one of them
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2021, 04:05:23 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 15, 2021, 03:53:54 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 15, 2021, 03:52:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 09:24:38 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 14, 2021, 08:54:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 06:47:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 06:12:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 03:59:06 PM
Watched the game and West Brom had chances to score another but Utd dominated a game but were left to rue chances they should have took.
Slab head at the end unlucky on 95 minute not to score.
Rashford needs a rest, abysmal today
That'll be an invitation for the Spectator to incite a racist pile on against him, like they need any invitation
So don't say he was abysmal?
I'm sure sid is well able to answer for himself, but I would imagine he is suggesting the Spectator article is coming because Rashford was abysmal, not because you wrote a post on gaaboard saying so
Slab head was abysmal also. DeGea needs shot
Was gonna ask who slab head was but I presume it's Harry Maguire who missed the header at the end.
A bit playgroundish that type of nickname all the same.
BTW, I thought he was ropey alright, along with Lindelof who was a bit timothy when yer man got all physical with him.
I love how slabhead is pointed out here as thing to be offended by but it's ok for De Gea to be shot 😂😂
Only metaphorically speaking shot, not actually hire a hitman and head to Manchester ;D ;D
Some people are on the spectrum and struggle with humour
Now he's making jokes against Autistic people. What a very strange individual. 🤷♂️
I taught kids who were on the spectrum/autism ..
They took things up wrongly, as do you, no jokes here, but carry on
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2021, 05:34:29 PM
I taught kids who were on the spectrum/autism ..
They took things up wrongly, as do you, no jokes here, but carry on
Ah anything for the bantz huh? Implying that someone is on the spectrum as you did above isn't a funny joke. You were using it as an insult to that person therefore implying there is something wrong with being on the spectrum. Defend your actions all you want but it's obvious what you were at.
You can spin it whatever way you want. I'm not fussed on your trolling tbh ...
Exhausting. It's like you saying Utd don't have a 'way of playing' but you were shown up.
It's not difficult to spot a troll
Annoyingly MR2 you continue to interact with him....
He is one of a growing band of 'hilarious' eejits that are polluting the place. That Reilly fecker and StPats are another couple of weapons... I could go on..
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2021, 07:22:29 PM
You can spin it whatever way you want. I'm not fussed on your trolling tbh ...
Exhausting. It's like you saying Utd don't have a 'way of playing' but you were shown up.
It's not difficult to spot a troll
You bring up lads who aren't able to take a joke as being on the spectrum and I'm the troll?
Ok asshole I'll leave you to yourself, it's there in black and white what you said and we both know what you meant.
You're probably also someone who likes to have the last word so reply to this post if you feel you must but you've been shown up and you don't like it and I'm satisfied I'm correct.
Quote from: Boycey on February 15, 2021, 07:26:01 PM
Annoyingly MR2 you continue to interact with him....
He is one of a growing band of 'hilarious' eejits that are polluting the place. That Reilly fecker and StPats are another couple of weapons... I could go on..
Ah I see, the Band of brothers stick together on here do they? You ok with someone making jokes at Autistic peoples expense also? Cool for you bro.
Quote from: trailer on February 15, 2021, 04:08:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2021, 04:05:23 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 15, 2021, 03:53:54 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 15, 2021, 03:52:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 09:24:38 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 14, 2021, 08:54:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 06:47:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 06:12:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 03:59:06 PM
Watched the game and West Brom had chances to score another but Utd dominated a game but were left to rue chances they should have took.
Slab head at the end unlucky on 95 minute not to score.
Rashford needs a rest, abysmal today
That'll be an invitation for the Spectator to incite a racist pile on against him, like they need any invitation
So don't say he was abysmal?
I'm sure sid is well able to answer for himself, but I would imagine he is suggesting the Spectator article is coming because Rashford was abysmal, not because you wrote a post on gaaboard saying so
Slab head was abysmal also. DeGea needs shot
Was gonna ask who slab head was but I presume it's Harry Maguire who missed the header at the end.
A bit playgroundish that type of nickname all the same.
BTW, I thought he was ropey alright, along with Lindelof who was a bit timothy when yer man got all physical with him.
I love how slabhead is pointed out here as thing to be offended by but it's ok for De Gea to be shot 😂😂
Only metaphorically speaking shot, not actually hire a hitman and head to Manchester ;D ;D
Some people are on the spectrum and struggle with humour
Do you remember the episode of Dream Team when they shot the CF at Wembley after the Cup final?
John Black
Like a true team captain he took the shot to save Linda Block's life
Luis Amor Rodriguez's two goals that day were very similar to each other, very similar indeed, enabled by poor defending from set pieces
They were so similar I'd have almost sworn they were the same goal, if didn't know better
You'd think the Manchester United defence wouldn't get caught out in the same way like that twice
Ruined their shot at the treble as well
Should be a decent game, hoping for plenty goals and some hard tackles.
Watched some of the Chelsea game earlier. Good goal by minamino. Chelsea quite poor in the final third - Werner just not working out so far. I don't think abrahams is the quality of player they need either if they want to be challengers.
Man Utd struggled to sign quality players for 3 to 4 seasons due to no champions league, settling for the likes of Fellaini, a done Schweinsteiger and Schneiderlin to name but a few. I believe Liverpool are heading that way, how can they seriously think they could sign Mbappe if this slid continues. Big crisis for Jürgen.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 20, 2021, 06:23:35 PM
Watched some of the Chelsea game earlier. Good goal by minamino. Chelsea quite poor in the final third - Werner just not working out so far. I don't think abrahams is the quality of player they need either if they want to be challengers.
Tuchel takin no shit anyways. Hudson Odoi on as sub then subbed off
Football is finished if that was a penalty. Ridiculous.
Quote from: laoislad on February 20, 2021, 07:12:49 PM
Football is finished if that was a penalty. Ridiculous.
Trent can't even see him. Cslvert lewin runs over the top of him and trips.
Don't know how a ref can see that twice and think it's a penalty
Thought at first glance it was definitely a pen but would want to see it a couple more times... I'm still not convinced it wasn't.
Law 12 is Impeding the progress of an opponent with contact. It doesn't matter if intentional.
Why would a foul in the box not be a penalty?
The only thing stopping Calvert Lewin reaching the ball was that interjection by TAA. Whether he meant it or not surely does not matter?
Quote from: screenexile on February 20, 2021, 07:23:38 PM
Thought at first glance it was definitely a pen but would want to see it a couple more times... I'm still not convinced it wasn't.
It was a laughable decision.
Made worse by the ref's two second "review".
Quote from: thewobbler on February 20, 2021, 07:24:39 PM
Why would a foul in the box not be a penalty?
The only thing stopping Calvert Lewin reaching the ball was that interjection by TAA. Whether he meant it or not surely does not matter?
Trent has eyes on the back of his head, does he?
When was the last time?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iI2fRPmEZ6A
Quote from: trileacman on February 20, 2021, 07:15:50 PM
Don't know how a ref can see that twice and think it's a penalty
Yeah crazy decision, never a penalty.Not sure Liverpool would have equalised anyway but that peno didn't help.
A penalty all day long, the game is now non-contact. And if there's no contact, you create contact.
Quote from: J70 on February 20, 2021, 07:25:53 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 20, 2021, 07:24:39 PM
Why would a foul in the box not be a penalty?
The only thing stopping Calvert Lewin reaching the ball was that interjection by TAA. Whether he meant it or not surely does not matter?
Trent has eyes on the back of his head, does he?
You do understand that an accidental foul is still a foul, don't you?
Hell hath no fury like a VAR decision when Liverpool are involved
Quote from: J70 on February 20, 2021, 07:25:53 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 20, 2021, 07:24:39 PM
Why would a foul in the box not be a penalty?
The only thing stopping Calvert Lewin reaching the ball was that interjection by TAA. Whether he meant it or not surely does not matter?
Trent has eyes on the back of his head, does he?
Don't understand how that makes a difference?
One season wonders
Whether you agree with it or not they've obviously been told to give these type of fouls. David Luiz was sent off for one he knew even less about against Wolves.
Quote from: thewobbler on February 20, 2021, 07:27:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 20, 2021, 07:25:53 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 20, 2021, 07:24:39 PM
Why would a foul in the box not be a penalty?
The only thing stopping Calvert Lewin reaching the ball was that interjection by TAA. Whether he meant it or not surely does not matter?
Trent has eyes on the back of his head, does he?
You do understand that an accidental foul is still a foul, don't you?
Hell hath no fury like a VAR decision when Liverpool are involved
If you're right, it's a different sport to the one I grew up watching and playing.
So you can now try to hurdle over an opponent on the ground, from behind, when he can't see you, and it's a foul.
f**king joke.
And spare me the Liverpool shite. From what I saw, Everton deserved the win. I'd say the same for any team, e.g. those ludicrous handball decisions early in the season before the rules were changed.
It wasn't that long ago that Liverpool secured opener in the Champions League final courtesy of a penalty, the result of Mane kicking the ball point blank against Sissoko's arm - which was where an arm should be.
Was it deserved? No. Could Sissoko have behaved differently in same situation? No. Did it tilt the balance of match immeasurably in Liverpool's favour? Yes. By the letter of the law, was the decision correct? Yes.
What'a good for goose is good for gander.
Let's not let the penalty be the reason they lost. Some blaming the wind WTF! It was blowing for both teams I'd imagine.
Ancelotti can fairly raise those eyebrows, especially in the wind.
Quote from: thewobbler on February 20, 2021, 07:38:04 PM
It wasn't that long ago that Liverpool secured opener in the Champions League final courtesy of a penalty, the result of Mane kicking the ball point blank against Sissoko's arm - which was where an arm should be.
Was it deserved? No. Could Sissoko have behaved differently in same situation? No. Did it tilt the balance of match immeasurably in Liverpool's favour? Yes. By the letter of the law, was the decision correct? Yes.
What'a good for goose is good for gander.
I didn't agree with the Sissoko penalty.
Have said so on this board several times. The changes to the handball rules over the past few years are a joke.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2021, 07:41:17 PM
Let's not let the penalty be the reason they lost. Some blaming the wind WTF! It was blowing for both teams I'd imagine.
Is anyone blaming the penalty? At least here?
You can think the penalty award was stupid at the same time as admitting Everton deserved it due to Liverpool's toothlessness up front.
Quote from: J70 on February 20, 2021, 07:46:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2021, 07:41:17 PM
Let's not let the penalty be the reason they lost. Some blaming the wind WTF! It was blowing for both teams I'd imagine.
Is anyone blaming the penalty? At least here?
You can think the penalty award was stupid at the same time as admitting Everton deserved it due to Liverpool's toothlessness up front.
The penalty was correct, the law may be wrong but these players know the rules and consequences that follow, there would be an acceptance from the Liverpool support had same decision went for them.
I'd be more concerned with what's happening on the training ground
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2021, 07:56:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 20, 2021, 07:46:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2021, 07:41:17 PM
Let's not let the penalty be the reason they lost. Some blaming the wind WTF! It was blowing for both teams I'd imagine.
Is anyone blaming the penalty? At least here?
You can think the penalty award was stupid at the same time as admitting Everton deserved it due to Liverpool's toothlessness up front.
The penalty was correct, the law may be wrong but these players know the rules and consequences that follow, there would be an acceptance from the Liverpool support had same decision went for them.
I'd be more concerned with what's happening on the training ground
I look forward to hearing the logic the PL will put out this week on the penalty, assuming they defend it.
To be honest, I'd much prefer if obstruction / indirect free kicks were expanded to include things like clearly accidental handball, and being unable to move out of the way because you're prone on on the ground.
But until then, today's incident involves physical contact that prevented an attacker gaining an advantage. It's a foul. It will be easily explained by the PL
It's remarkable the number of people who follow a sport but still cannot understand the rules. You can disagree with them, but not understanding them is just stupid.
Quote from: J70 on February 20, 2021, 07:59:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2021, 07:56:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 20, 2021, 07:46:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2021, 07:41:17 PM
Let's not let the penalty be the reason they lost. Some blaming the wind WTF! It was blowing for both teams I'd imagine.
Is anyone blaming the penalty? At least here?
You can think the penalty award was stupid at the same time as admitting Everton deserved it due to Liverpool's toothlessness up front.
The penalty was correct, the law may be wrong but these players know the rules and consequences that follow, there would be an acceptance from the Liverpool support had same decision went for them.
I'd be more concerned with what's happening on the training ground
I look forward to hearing the logic the PL will put out this week on the penalty, assuming they defend it.
its a clear penalty, trent stops calvert lewin having a tap in, whether its deliberate or not is irrelevant.
Clear penalty ;D ;D he runs over the top of TAA and falls over. Getting to the stage now where you're not even surprised that these are the types of wrong decisions going against Liverpool, a weekly basis now.
Great result for West Ham.
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 21, 2021, 12:17:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 20, 2021, 07:59:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2021, 07:56:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 20, 2021, 07:46:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2021, 07:41:17 PM
Let's not let the penalty be the reason they lost. Some blaming the wind WTF! It was blowing for both teams I'd imagine.
Is anyone blaming the penalty? At least here?
You can think the penalty award was stupid at the same time as admitting Everton deserved it due to Liverpool's toothlessness up front.
The penalty was correct, the law may be wrong but these players know the rules and consequences that follow, there would be an acceptance from the Liverpool support had same decision went for them.
I'd be more concerned with what's happening on the training ground
I look forward to hearing the logic the PL will put out this week on the penalty, assuming they defend it.
its a clear penalty, trent stops calvert lewin having a tap in, whether its deliberate or not is irrelevant.
So the offense was that TAA was occupying space between Calvert-Lewin and the ball? Had Allison held on to the ball or put it out for a corner, no penalty?
They need to seriously look at the people coming up with these rules.
I wonder where the foul started? Was it the back of Trent's head "fouling" Calvert-Lewin's knee?
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 21, 2021, 03:13:21 PM
Great result for West Ham.
Absolutely flying it. Would be the story of the season if they hold on to get Top 4.
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2021, 04:55:37 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 21, 2021, 12:17:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 20, 2021, 07:59:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2021, 07:56:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 20, 2021, 07:46:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2021, 07:41:17 PM
Let's not let the penalty be the reason they lost. Some blaming the wind WTF! It was blowing for both teams I'd imagine.
Is anyone blaming the penalty? At least here?
You can think the penalty award was stupid at the same time as admitting Everton deserved it due to Liverpool's toothlessness up front.
The penalty was correct, the law may be wrong but these players know the rules and consequences that follow, there would be an acceptance from the Liverpool support had same decision went for them.
I'd be more concerned with what's happening on the training ground
I look forward to hearing the logic the PL will put out this week on the penalty, assuming they defend it.
its a clear penalty, trent stops calvert lewin having a tap in, whether its deliberate or not is irrelevant.
So the offense was that TAA was occupying space between Calvert-Lewin and the ball? Had Allison held on to the ball or put it out for a corner, no penalty?
They need to seriously look at the people coming up with these rules.
I wonder where the foul started? Was it the back of Trent's head "fouling" Calvert-Lewin's knee?
jeez it's not hard to understand. If Allison had held onto the ball or put it out for a corner the ball wouldn't have been there for a calvert lewin tap in. It happens in matches up and down every league every week, forward takes it round goalie and falls over his body, whether keeper means it or its a penalty. If it had have been the keeper that brought him down in same way it wouldn't even be a discussion. In this instance it was trent who stopped calvert lewin scoring, intentional or not its a penalty.
The thing about this match is that we finally seen a ref with a set of balls that didn't fall for the constant theatrics of mane and salah. Embarrassing to watch.
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2021, 04:55:37 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 21, 2021, 12:17:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 20, 2021, 07:59:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2021, 07:56:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 20, 2021, 07:46:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2021, 07:41:17 PM
Let's not let the penalty be the reason they lost. Some blaming the wind WTF! It was blowing for both teams I'd imagine.
Is anyone blaming the penalty? At least here?
You can think the penalty award was stupid at the same time as admitting Everton deserved it due to Liverpool's toothlessness up front.
The penalty was correct, the law may be wrong but these players know the rules and consequences that follow, there would be an acceptance from the Liverpool support had same decision went for them.
I'd be more concerned with what's happening on the training ground
I look forward to hearing the logic the PL will put out this week on the penalty, assuming they defend it.
its a clear penalty, trent stops calvert lewin having a tap in, whether its deliberate or not is irrelevant.
So the offense was that TAA was occupying space between Calvert-Lewin and the ball? Had Allison held on to the ball or put it out for a corner, no penalty?
They need to seriously look at the people coming up with these rules.
I wonder where the foul started? Was it the back of Trent's head "fouling" Calvert-Lewin's knee?
Let it go J70 you won't get anywhere with this crowd. It was never a penalty. Mane had similar if not an identical thing happen against Southampton with their Goalkeeper and VAR didn't even look at it.
The official in the VAR room obviously had doubts as he asked the Ref to look at it. Not sure how much the Ref saw for the millisecond he looked at it though.
I don't think Liverpool were going to score anyways, but going two down certainly didn't help the cause.
Another week, another Man United player dives,another Man United penalty... never changes.
Quote from: laoislad on February 21, 2021, 08:57:54 PM
Another week, another Man United player dives,another Man United penalty... never changes.
any comment on salah and mane diving yesterday?
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 21, 2021, 05:34:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2021, 04:55:37 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 21, 2021, 12:17:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 20, 2021, 07:59:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2021, 07:56:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 20, 2021, 07:46:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2021, 07:41:17 PM
Let's not let the penalty be the reason they lost. Some blaming the wind WTF! It was blowing for both teams I'd imagine.
Is anyone blaming the penalty? At least here?
You can think the penalty award was stupid at the same time as admitting Everton deserved it due to Liverpool's toothlessness up front.
The penalty was correct, the law may be wrong but these players know the rules and consequences that follow, there would be an acceptance from the Liverpool support had same decision went for them.
I'd be more concerned with what's happening on the training ground
I look forward to hearing the logic the PL will put out this week on the penalty, assuming they defend it.
its a clear penalty, trent stops calvert lewin having a tap in, whether its deliberate or not is irrelevant.
So the offense was that TAA was occupying space between Calvert-Lewin and the ball? Had Allison held on to the ball or put it out for a corner, no penalty?
They need to seriously look at the people coming up with these rules.
I wonder where the foul started? Was it the back of Trent's head "fouling" Calvert-Lewin's knee?
jeez it's not hard to understand. If Allison had held onto the ball or put it out for a corner the ball wouldn't have been there for a calvert lewin tap in. It happens in matches up and down every league every week, forward takes it round goalie and falls over his body, whether keeper means it or its a penalty. If it had have been the keeper that brought him down in same way it wouldn't even be a discussion. In this instance it was trent who stopped calvert lewin scoring, intentional or not its a penalty.
The thing about this match is that we finally seen a ref with a set of balls that didn't fall for the constant theatrics of mane and salah. Embarrassing to watch.
Sorry, but I DO find it hard to understand. Especially if you're saying that had Calvin-Lewin falling over Trent would not have been a penalty if the ball had not been there.
As for the keeper bringing down someone, the keeper commits the "foul" when trying to actively thwart the attacker. It is part of the same play. Trent was there because he slid in to block the initial shot. He had no involvement in the follow-up play until Calvert-Lewin kneed him in the back of the head because he just happened to stumble on in that direction in pursuit of the ball.
It's utter stupidity in my opinion, like many of the new rules.
The way they're going, we're going to end up where defenders can't even try to tackle or block shots anymore.
Is there accidental fouls or not?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 21, 2021, 11:16:38 PM
Is there accidental fouls or not?
Mistimed tackles, tangling feet with a player you're chasing, going up for a header with your arm up and handling the ball. There's always been accidental fouls. Most fouls are accidental, unless you're someone trying to do another player or you deliberately take one for the team.
Being penalized for "fouling" someone you can't see, who comes up over you from behind, kneeing you in the back of the head, is not something that, to me, is in the spirit of the game. The only way Trent could have avoided that "foul" was by not attempting the initial tackle that left him on his arse in the first place. Is that what we want?
If those ARE the current rules, the game is being run by a bunch of f**king idiots.
They already had to backtrack this season after a few ludicrous handballs against Spurs (twice) and United.
Maybe I'm getting old, but there is something seriously wrong with the evolving ethos of soccer if this is where we're at:
Dominic Calvert-Lewin had an open goal, so there was no reason for him to dive. As he hurdled Trent Alexander-Arnold to get to the ball, the Liverpool full back lifted his head and created contact.
It was a penalty, but it was good to see common sense prevail and Alexander-Arnold avoid a red card.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-9284513/MARK-CLATTENBURG-Chris-Kavanagh-giving-penalty-Merseyside-derby-right-call.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-9284513/MARK-CLATTENBURG-Chris-Kavanagh-giving-penalty-Merseyside-derby-right-call.html)
The game has changed lads:
https://twitter.com/AnalysisGaa/status/1363427127597662210 (https://twitter.com/AnalysisGaa/status/1363427127597662210)
As a Liverpool supporter I thought the Everton penalty was fair enough
It reminded me a bit of the clash between Shay Given and Ruud van Nistelrooy in the Ireland-Holland game in 2001, which, in all fairness, should have been a penalty
Quote from: oakleaflad on February 22, 2021, 12:32:54 PM
The game has changed lads:
https://twitter.com/AnalysisGaa/status/1363427127597662210 (https://twitter.com/AnalysisGaa/status/1363427127597662210)
How the f**k did Vinnie Jones stay on the field? ;D
You had to have balls to play against f**kers like him.
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2021, 12:51:24 PM
Quote from: oakleaflad on February 22, 2021, 12:32:54 PM
The game has changed lads:
https://twitter.com/AnalysisGaa/status/1363427127597662210 (https://twitter.com/AnalysisGaa/status/1363427127597662210)
How the f**k did Vinnie Jones stay on the field? ;D
You had to have balls to play against f**kers like him.
Having balls could be a serious hindrance when playing against Vinnie Jones, as Paul Gascoigne found out
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 12:54:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2021, 12:51:24 PM
Quote from: oakleaflad on February 22, 2021, 12:32:54 PM
The game has changed lads:
https://twitter.com/AnalysisGaa/status/1363427127597662210 (https://twitter.com/AnalysisGaa/status/1363427127597662210)
How the f**k did Vinnie Jones stay on the field? ;D
You had to have balls to play against f**kers like him.
Having balls could be a serious hindrance when playing against Vinnie Jones, as Paul Gascoigne found out
;D
Is the penalty scenario basically taking away from what was a deserved win by Everton anyway?
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 22, 2021, 01:48:35 PM
Is the penalty scenario basically taking away from what was a deserved win by Everton anyway?
Haven't seen anyone suggest that.
Liverpool haven't scored at Anfield from open play since Christmas. They didn't look like they were going to in the last ten against Everton either.
Sheff Utd are 7/1 against a team missing so many players. Still have the top 3 attackers but this will be a tough one.
Probably win 3-0 ;D
Random question... how is Christian Benteke a premier league footballer? He has been awful for years.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 28, 2021, 07:46:46 PM
Random question... how is Christian Benteke a premier league footballer? He has been awful for years.
And he's almost certainly on over 80k a week.
He was unreal at Villa. Never worked out after that. Palace seem to be fond of taking a punt on these duds, Benteke, Batshauyi, Sorloth, Adebayor, Chamkh (spelling), Remy, Tosin.
Something I've never understood about modern football in which managers are regularly kicked to the side like dirt, how such underperforming, clearly uninterested and unmotivated players continue to stay on the merry-go-round picking up huge wages.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 01, 2021, 10:03:41 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 28, 2021, 07:46:46 PM
Random question... how is Christian Benteke a premier league footballer? He has been awful for years.
And he's almost certainly on over 80k a week.
He was unreal at Villa. Never worked out after that. Palace seem to be fond of taking a punt on these duds, Benteke, Batshauyi, Sorloth, Adebayor, Chamkh (spelling), Remy, Tosin.
Something I've never understood about modern football in which managers are regularly kicked to the side like dirt, how such underperforming, clearly uninterested and unmotivated players continue to stay on the merry-go-round picking up huge wages.
They'd have to pay off his wages in full, so it doesn't create a saving. And it's not as if he is contributing zero. Scored the winning goal in their "derby" last week. Managers are paid off in full because they want to replace them. Can't have more than one manager knocking around the training ground.
When Palace signed Benteke and gave him his big wages it didn't look like such a bad move. As you said, he was unreal at Villa. He didn't fit at Liverpool, but he still scored 1 in 3 , or thereabouts. He won't get 80k or whatever in his next contract. certainly not in Europe.
The absolute state of that farce in the Brighton match on Saturday. How can Lee Mason tell Dunk it's ok to take it quickly, blow his whistle and then keek the begs. The whole thing was an absolute shambles.
Is it me or has the actual standard of refereeing become worse and not better under VAR? The referees themselves are afraid to make a decision and VAR seems to make a different call on the same type of incident from week to week. I personally think VAR is a terrible system especially with these offsides and handballs.
Quote from: lurganblue on March 01, 2021, 11:33:08 AM
The absolute state of that farce in the Brighton match on Saturday. How can Lee Mason tell Dunk it's ok to take it quickly, blow his whistle and then keek the begs. The whole thing was an absolute shambles.
Dunk scored an identical free against Liverpool at Anfield last year and it was fine then.
But Mason disallowed it, then allowed it, then disallowed it again.
As for handball, I'm lost. Why did United not get that penalty yesterday?
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2021, 11:41:25 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on March 01, 2021, 11:33:08 AM
The absolute state of that farce in the Brighton match on Saturday. How can Lee Mason tell Dunk it's ok to take it quickly, blow his whistle and then keek the begs. The whole thing was an absolute shambles.
Dunk scored an identical free against Liverpool at Anfield last year and it was fine then.
But Mason disallowed it, then allowed it, then disallowed it again.
As for handball, I'm lost. Why did United not get that penalty yesterday?
I wouldn't have called that a deliberate handball, or did it affect the ball direction or take away a goal opportunity.. The problem is VAR give those nearly every week! so Its just a pain in the hole for people watching
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2021, 11:41:25 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on March 01, 2021, 11:33:08 AM
The absolute state of that farce in the Brighton match on Saturday. How can Lee Mason tell Dunk it's ok to take it quickly, blow his whistle and then keek the begs. The whole thing was an absolute shambles.
Dunk scored an identical free against Liverpool at Anfield last year and it was fine then.
But Mason disallowed it, then allowed it, then disallowed it again.
As for handball, I'm lost. Why did United not get that penalty yesterday?
Not deliberate, did not alter the 'path' of the ball, the ball was actually going out of the box away from goal I suppose.
At the time it actually looked like the Utd player was the offender. Couldn't give a penalty for that.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 01, 2021, 11:59:04 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2021, 11:41:25 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on March 01, 2021, 11:33:08 AM
The absolute state of that farce in the Brighton match on Saturday. How can Lee Mason tell Dunk it's ok to take it quickly, blow his whistle and then keek the begs. The whole thing was an absolute shambles.
Dunk scored an identical free against Liverpool at Anfield last year and it was fine then.
But Mason disallowed it, then allowed it, then disallowed it again.
As for handball, I'm lost. Why did United not get that penalty yesterday?
Not deliberate, did not alter the 'path' of the ball, the ball was actually going out of the box away from goal I suppose.
At the time it actually looked like the Utd player was the offender. Couldn't give a penalty for that.
But I thought intent wasn't coming into this stuff any more (or is that only when a player brings down a man kneeing him in the head from behind? :))
And as MR2 says, they're giving those all the time.
IFAB needs to be told to f**k away off and give us our game back!
There was nothing whatsoever wrong with the traditional interpretation of handball before they started messing around with it when they introduced VAR.
Apparently it's all Jurgen Klopps fault Man United didn't get the penalty!
They should just bring back the version of the handball rule where it had to be deliberate (where this includes the John Terry deliberately making yourself bigger to gain an advantage type of move).
Yes, it can be difficult sometimes to judge whether a handball was deliberate, but it's not as if the current version of the rule has made handball easier to judge.
Richarlison loves a dive. Martin Atkinson cant wait to give everton the handy free. Southampton very poor team. Handy win for Everton
Have never seen a team crash as much, mentally, as this Liverpool side. I think it is the effect of 3 years of football at 100mph.
If he could, I'm sure Klopp would love to play the stiffs for the last 10 games or so and give the first team a rest til the new season.
When you see this, you realise how good Alex Ferguson was.
Quote from: ONeill on March 04, 2021, 10:36:54 PM
Have never seen a team crash as much, mentally, as this Liverpool side. I think it is the effect of 3 years of football at 100mph.
If he could, I'm sure Klopp would love to play the stiffs for the last 10 games or so and give the first team a rest til the new season.
When you see this, you realise how good Alex Ferguson was.
Realise what? Not sure what your point is here. Irrelevant.
5th home loss in a row, another record for Klopp
Probably the same for City now. Play the stiffs and prioritise the CL.
Is Klopp in danger of getting the sack?
No way. He has achieved so much. I hope they don't compare him to Fergie.
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 05, 2021, 12:34:15 AM
Is Klopp in danger of getting the sack?
Is the PE teacher in danger of getting the sack?
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 05, 2021, 12:34:15 AM
Is Klopp in danger of getting the sack?
Have you drink taken posting that?
Klopp will dine out on his success with Liverpool for years, this year will be a blip in terms of his achievements. The lads are still in hangover mode. Could still pull it out of the bag in the Champions League. Fourth is still a possibility as Utd and the Foxes have stalled
Dreadful performance yesterday. For all the defensive injury issues the problem is scoring goals, not defensively. Bar two late collapses against City and Leicester driven by individual errors in games where the team actually played well we have been ok at the back. However, the front three are totally out on Sync at the minute and we ae not creating chances. I think it was said on here before, I think we need to get Fabinho into midfield and let Kabak/Phillips try to get a partnership going. Hopefully that would release Jones/Gini forward more. I cant remember what game it was (Maybe Leicester?) but Milner started and he got into a lot of decent positions. As obviously talented as Thiago is, this slump has coincided with his return and we desperately need a change. Whether that is midfielders trying to break the lines (Keita?) or using Jota more I dont know.
As far as Klopp goes I would like to think thst FSG are not even contemplating anything stupid. The bigger risk would be that Klopp strikes me as the kind of person who might decide to go unilaterally a la Dalglish if he thought he wasnt the right person. As far as I am concerned he has bought himself time with the last couple of seasons. Look at Guardiola, City were in a similar position last year and they managed to turn it round in spectacular fashion.
Top 4 looks increasingly unlikely which means the UCL is critical. Liverpool are capable of beating any team left in it but given the current struggles the likelihood of having 5 decent performance in a row against quality opposition is slim
Newcastle should be safe now. Fulham, WBA and Sheff Utd fef gone now. Fulham and West Brom had winnable games in recent weeks but are just poor sides. A real lack of quality.
I think Fulham still have an outside chance. Brighton could yet get sucked in.
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 07, 2021, 02:09:31 PM
I think Fulham still have an outside chance. Brighton could yet get sucked in.
Fulham get a result today (based on Liverpool's home form and line up today) they could give themselves a right chance
Brighton very unlucky against Leicester. Amartay, spelling, hadn't scored in four years lol. I like the Brighton manager so kind of hope they stay up. (Although maybe not after the way they treated Hughton mind you) but think they may get sucked in.
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 07, 2021, 02:09:31 PM
I think Fulham still have an outside chance. Brighton could yet get sucked in.
Can see Liverpool winning 4/5 -0. Mo Salah more effective at no 9.
You seen the defence Macker?
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 07, 2021, 02:40:34 PM
You seen the defence Macker?
It's pretty obvious macker is a reincarnation of a poster called Cavanreilly or something..
(https://i.ibb.co/jMhbSWW/Screenshot-20210307-161330-2.png) (https://ibb.co/zRsQz77)
All very tight on who will join West Brom and Sheffield United in the Championship next season.
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 07, 2021, 02:40:34 PM
You seen the defence Macker?
Didnt think defence would be tested. Liverpool started brightly. Was sure a few goals in them. Poor second half. Need a new striker.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on March 07, 2021, 04:16:57 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/jMhbSWW/Screenshot-20210307-161330-2.png) (https://ibb.co/zRsQz77)
All very tight on who will join West Brom and Sheffield United in the Championship next season.
Still think bottom 3 will go down.
Quote from: laoislad on March 07, 2021, 02:49:52 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 07, 2021, 02:40:34 PM
You seen the defence Macker?
It's pretty obvious macker is a reincarnation of a poster called Cavanreilly or something..
I'm not from Cavan. Don't know where you got that from??
Handy enough win and great results from up the road make it a good weekend
Getting the popcorn in for MOTD tonight. ;D
Quote from: laoislad on February 07, 2021, 08:22:43 PM
Quote from: GJL on February 07, 2021, 08:14:40 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: maldini on February 07, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Roy Keane not holding back
What's he saying?
Don't forget in December he said city had no chance of winning the league
along the lines of; all they do is make excuses, they've been bad champions, they didn't look to push on and try to retain it, happy patting themselves on the back and if they continue like this it'll be another 30 years before they win it again.
To be fair he is not far wrong with Liverpool. Worst defence of a PL ever.
Man United finished 7th the season after the last time they won it,which is nearly 8 years ago now since they won it....Maybe if Liverpool finish 8th you might have a case...
👀
Bale in recent weeks has found his mojo again, Jose Mourinho might add another trophy to his CV this season if Bale keeps his current form going.
Quote from: GJL on March 07, 2021, 08:35:54 PM
Quote from: laoislad on February 07, 2021, 08:22:43 PM
Quote from: GJL on February 07, 2021, 08:14:40 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: maldini on February 07, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Roy Keane not holding back
What's he saying?
Don't forget in December he said city had no chance of winning the league
along the lines of; all they do is make excuses, they've been bad champions, they didn't look to push on and try to retain it, happy patting themselves on the back and if they continue like this it'll be another 30 years before they win it again.
To be fair he is not far wrong with Liverpool. Worst defence of a PL ever.
Man United finished 7th the season after the last time they won it,which is nearly 8 years ago now since they won it....Maybe if Liverpool finish 8th you might have a case...
👀
At this stage it's looking like you might actually be right for a change EC Unique, which just proves what a bloody weird season this actually is...
Quote from: laoislad on March 07, 2021, 09:02:41 PM
Quote from: GJL on March 07, 2021, 08:35:54 PM
Quote from: laoislad on February 07, 2021, 08:22:43 PM
Quote from: GJL on February 07, 2021, 08:14:40 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: maldini on February 07, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Roy Keane not holding back
What's he saying?
Don't forget in December he said city had no chance of winning the league
along the lines of; all they do is make excuses, they've been bad champions, they didn't look to push on and try to retain it, happy patting themselves on the back and if they continue like this it'll be another 30 years before they win it again.
To be fair he is not far wrong with Liverpool. Worst defence of a PL ever.
Man United finished 7th the season after the last time they won it,which is nearly 8 years ago now since they won it....Maybe if Liverpool finish 8th you might have a case...
👀
At this stage it's looking like you might actually be right for a change EC Unique, which just proves what a bloody weird season this actually is...
I think last year was actually the weird season.
There have been worse PL defences than Liverpools. Were Leicester not bad after winning it, same with Chelsea maybe two times and Blackburn too.
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 07, 2021, 11:00:25 PM
There have been worse PL defences than Liverpools. Were Leicester not bad after winning it, same with Chelsea maybe two times and Blackburn too.
Liverpool will turn it around yet. Top 4 is maybe out of reach but wouldn't rule them out completely just yet. This form can't go on.
Quote from: GJL on March 07, 2021, 11:15:28 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 07, 2021, 11:00:25 PM
There have been worse PL defences than Liverpools. Were Leicester not bad after winning it, same with Chelsea maybe two times and Blackburn too.
Liverpool will turn it around yet. Top 4 is maybe out of reach but wouldn't rule them out completely just yet. This form can't go on.
Only four points off fourth with so many games left they'll eat into that soon enough
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 07, 2021, 11:00:25 PM
There have been worse PL defences than Liverpools. Were Leicester not bad after winning it, same with Chelsea maybe two times and Blackburn too.
Those are a long way off the worst, which was Man City's 1938 defence of their title, which ended in relegation for them
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on March 07, 2021, 11:24:25 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 07, 2021, 11:00:25 PM
There have been worse PL defences than Liverpools. Were Leicester not bad after winning it, same with Chelsea maybe two times and Blackburn too.
Those are a long way off the worst, which was Man City's 1938 defence of their title, which ended in relegation for them
1938 is long before the PL though.
:) True. But that's only marketing bull anyway. Winning the top flight is winning the top flight.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on March 08, 2021, 12:43:35 AM
:) True. But that's only marketing bull anyway. Winning the top flight is winning the top flight.
Very true. Blackburn have been English champions 3 times in their history (not just the famous 1995).
Sunderland have 6 titles bizarrely.
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 07, 2021, 11:55:19 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on March 07, 2021, 11:24:25 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 07, 2021, 11:00:25 PM
There have been worse PL defences than Liverpools. Were Leicester not bad after winning it, same with Chelsea maybe two times and Blackburn too.
Those are a long way off the worst, which was Man City's 1938 defence of their title, which ended in relegation for them
1938 is long before the PL though.
So? Did football start in 1992?
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 08, 2021, 08:07:06 AM
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 07, 2021, 11:55:19 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on March 07, 2021, 11:24:25 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 07, 2021, 11:00:25 PM
There have been worse PL defences than Liverpools. Were Leicester not bad after winning it, same with Chelsea maybe two times and Blackburn too.
Those are a long way off the worst, which was Man City's 1938 defence of their title, which ended in relegation for them
1938 is long before the PL though.
So? Did football start in 1992?
By that logic this is going to be a bad year for United then when City beat their record of
4 Premier League titles. Seeing as the name is so important... ::)
First it was the FA Carling Premiership.
In 2001 it became the Barclaycard Premiership.
In 2004 it became the Barclays Premiership.
And in 2007 it became the Barclays Premier League
Quote from: TabClear on March 08, 2021, 08:38:25 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 08, 2021, 08:07:06 AM
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 07, 2021, 11:55:19 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on March 07, 2021, 11:24:25 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 07, 2021, 11:00:25 PM
There have been worse PL defences than Liverpools. Were Leicester not bad after winning it, same with Chelsea maybe two times and Blackburn too.
Those are a long way off the worst, which was Man City's 1938 defence of their title, which ended in relegation for them
1938 is long before the PL though.
So? Did football start in 1992?
By that logic this is going to be a bad year for United then when City beat their record of 4 Premier League titles. Seeing as the name is so important... ::)
First it was the FA Carling Premiership.
In 2001 it became the Barclaycard Premiership.
In 2004 it became the Barclays Premiership.
And in 2007 it became the Barclays Premier League
Spot on. And then in 2016 it changed again to just the "Premier League"
That doesn't suit the United fans' agenda though. Football before 1992 somehow doesn't count but then when they are told they actually haven't won any "Premier League" titles they claim its the same thing and only a name change ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I know people like to moan about the "premier league era".
Of course football existed before then, but the creation of the premier league was at the beginning of a decade that changed football forever: terraces closing, the Bosman ruling, European employment law changes, Euro 96 and the new fan, and the evolution of the champions league into 4 teams per major country.
England's top flight went from being the peak of football for around 70m people from these two islands, to being the peak for 7bn people worldwide.
Regardless of how misty eyed you get about football in the 70s and 80s, it's a bit like comparing club football to county football in GAA. Bigger picks mean better players.
The premier league is brutal to watch. Not sure what it is, too much money, lack of physical play any more, lack of fans, soulless stadiums.....
Arteta doesn't seem to get any stick from Arsenal fans yet Emery appeared to be hounded by them, they've a lot of faith in him and have no idea where that comes from.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on March 08, 2021, 10:44:56 AM
Arteta doesn't seem to get any stick from Arsenal fans yet Emery appeared to be hounded by them, they've a lot of faith in him and have no idea where that comes from.
Fans at matches would have him under a lot more pressure that's for sure.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on March 08, 2021, 10:44:56 AM
Arteta doesn't seem to get any stick from Arsenal fans yet Emery appeared to be hounded by them, they've a lot of faith in him and have no idea where that comes from.
"Ole Out" has been trending on twitter worldwide after a few of the latest games Utd have played. Wasn't yesterday.
Fans can be fickle.
Quote from: An Watcher on March 08, 2021, 10:29:27 AM
The premier league is brutal to watch. Not sure what it is, too much money, lack of physical play any more, lack of fans, soulless stadiums.....
Agreed. Football in the 80s, 90s and even early 00s had much more character. Watched a clip on Twitter the other day of Utd v Palace. Vinny Jones borderline assaulted Cantona. He got up straight away and nonchalantly got on with things.. The same late, high, tackle today would be a red card and about 20mins lying in a heap
Quote from: general_lee on March 08, 2021, 10:59:36 AM
Quote from: An Watcher on March 08, 2021, 10:29:27 AM
The premier league is brutal to watch. Not sure what it is, too much money, lack of physical play any more, lack of fans, soulless stadiums.....
Agreed. Football in the 80s, 90s and even early 00s had much more character. Watched a clip on Twitter the other day of Utd v Palace. Vinny Jones borderline assaulted Cantona. He got up straight away and nonchalantly got on with things.. The same late, high, tackle today would be a red card and about 20mins lying in a heap
What pains me about football currently is that there are some great tackles (and fair ones) being blown as fouls and even yellow cards..
Totally ruining the game.
In fairness it's a really poor Arsenal squad, they've only a few players who'd make a Leicester team and think you could make a case Everton best 11 is better then Arsenal's.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 08, 2021, 10:57:51 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on March 08, 2021, 10:44:56 AM
Arteta doesn't seem to get any stick from Arsenal fans yet Emery appeared to be hounded by them, they've a lot of faith in him and have no idea where that comes from.
"Ole Out" has been trending on twitter worldwide after a few of the latest games Utd have played. Wasn't yesterday.
Fans can be fickle.
Take a look at Twitter this morning #oleout is still a thing. I don't thing it's even a 'fickle' fan problem, modern day social media gives every idiot an outlet for their rantings..
Quote from: An Watcher on March 08, 2021, 10:29:27 AM
The premier league is brutal to watch. Not sure what it is, too much money, lack of physical play any more, lack of fans, soulless stadiums.....
The biggest issue I have with football at the minute is the "avoid a loss at all costs mentality" of all but the top teams. The 2 banks of four/five just in front of the penalty box while the "big"teams enjoys 70%+ possession knocking it across and back with very little penetration for the most part. I totally understand it as if these so caller "lesser" teams went for it they would probably concede 3 or 4 but it makes for a pretty poor spectacle when one team is just set up in hope of scoring a breakaway goal.
Its very similar to the transistion in GAA in the early/mid noughties when free flowing, attacking football became the exception.
Four different women involved in the BT coverage tonight, the Presenter, co-commentator, and two pundits. Must be a first for Premier league coverage?
Quote from: Captain Obvious on March 08, 2021, 08:01:59 PM
Four different women involved in the BT coverage tonight, the Presenter, co-commentator, and two pundits. Must be a first for Premier league coverage?
It's total nonsense
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 08, 2021, 08:03:06 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on March 08, 2021, 08:01:59 PM
Four different women involved in the BT coverage tonight, the Presenter, co-commentator, and two pundits. Must be a first for Premier league coverage?
It's total nonsense
it was to mark international women's day. Not really something to get worked up about lads, actually made a change not having to listen to Steve mcmanaman.
Quote from: SHEEDY on March 08, 2021, 08:07:29 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 08, 2021, 08:03:06 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on March 08, 2021, 08:01:59 PM
Four different women involved in the BT coverage tonight, the Presenter, co-commentator, and two pundits. Must be a first for Premier league coverage?
It's total nonsense
it was to mark international women's day. Not really something to get worked up about lads, actually made a change not having to listen to Steve mcmanaman.
Yeah we know why it is, and not sure anyone is getting worked up about it
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 08, 2021, 08:10:09 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on March 08, 2021, 08:07:29 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 08, 2021, 08:03:06 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on March 08, 2021, 08:01:59 PM
Four different women involved in the BT coverage tonight, the Presenter, co-commentator, and two pundits. Must be a first for Premier league coverage?
It's total nonsense
it was to mark international women's day. Not really something to get worked up about lads, actually made a change not having to listen to Steve mcmanaman.
Yeah we know why it is, and not sure anyone is getting worked up about it
it's worked you up enough to comment on it, 'total nonsense' 🙄
Quote from: SHEEDY on March 08, 2021, 08:07:29 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 08, 2021, 08:03:06 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on March 08, 2021, 08:01:59 PM
Four different women involved in the BT coverage tonight, the Presenter, co-commentator, and two pundits. Must be a first for Premier league coverage?
It's total nonsense
it was to mark international women's day. Not really something to get worked up about lads, actually made a change not having to listen to Steve mcmanaman.
Not worked up at all. Better than having to listen to Michael Owen also.
I'd watch and listen to Alex Scott all day
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 08, 2021, 08:10:09 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on March 08, 2021, 08:07:29 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 08, 2021, 08:03:06 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on March 08, 2021, 08:01:59 PM
Four different women involved in the BT coverage tonight, the Presenter, co-commentator, and two pundits. Must be a first for Premier league coverage?
It's total nonsense
it was to mark international women's day. Not really something to get worked up about lads, actually made a change not having to listen to Steve mcmanaman.
Yeah we know why it is, and not sure anyone is getting worked up about it
Pathetic, you got caught out there ;)
Important win for Brighton tonight, looking like a shootout between Fulham and Newcastle for the final relegation spot and they play each other on the final day of the season.
Getting interesting down there. That game on the last day of the season could be a belter. That's a huge win for Brighton and huge loss for Newcastle.
Newcastle look to be in the sh*t. Lucky there are no fans about or the cabbages would be flying.
Quote from: lurganblue on March 20, 2021, 10:29:49 PM
Newcastle look to be in the sh*t. Lucky there are no fans about or the cabbages would be flying.
Sadly quite a few unfortunate wives of Newcastle supporters will now receive the punches that would in normal times have been reserved for horses
Routine home match for Chelsea today, against West Bromwich Albion
Unsurprisingly they took the lead
Current score is Chelsea 1 West Bromwich Albion 4
Ireland's world class superstar striker Callum Robinson is playing and scoring like Messi
Come back Frank Lampard
2-4 now
What is missing from your story?
Quote from: Boycey on April 03, 2021, 02:14:46 PM
What is missing from your story?
Everything in the world apart from what is in it
Robbo has done it again
He is Chelsea's kryptonite
Quote from: sid waddell on April 03, 2021, 02:21:29 PM
Quote from: Boycey on April 03, 2021, 02:14:46 PM
What is missing from your story?
Everything in the world apart from what is in it
U have broken my heart Sidney. I have always rooted for you in the spats you get involved in and taken your word as gospel but if you can tell that story without one incredibly important piece of information I'm wondering have you been economical with the truth other times too :-[
Can Big Sam work another miracle.
Quote from: Boycey on April 03, 2021, 02:35:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 03, 2021, 02:21:29 PM
Quote from: Boycey on April 03, 2021, 02:14:46 PM
What is missing from your story?
Everything in the world apart from what is in it
U have broken my heart Sidney. I have always rooted for you in the spats you get involved in and taken your word as gospel but if you can tell that story without one incredibly important piece of information I'm wondering have you been economical with the truth other times too :-[
I genuinely don't follow*
*Chelsea or West Bromwich
Quote from: sid waddell on April 03, 2021, 02:05:06 PM
Routine home match for Chelsea today, against West Bromwich Albion
That post didn't age well.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 03, 2021, 03:47:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 03, 2021, 02:05:06 PM
Routine home match for Chelsea today, against West Bromwich Albion
That post didn't age well.
How so?
The words were written at a time when Chelsea were 1-4 down, and in the full knowledge of this - thus creating an example of irony
Quote from: pbat on April 03, 2021, 02:37:09 PM
Can Big Sam work another miracle.
Even God couldn't perform another miracle after Easter, so you'd have to say Big Sam probably won't manage to do it
Quote from: sid waddell on April 03, 2021, 03:50:31 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 03, 2021, 03:47:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 03, 2021, 02:05:06 PM
Routine home match for Chelsea today, against West Bromwich Albion
That post didn't age well.
How so?
The words were written at a time when Chelsea were 1-4 down, and in the full knowledge of this - thus creating an example of irony
Apologies, I thought you were posting on the match as it played out.
Jesus Aubameyang is dung. Like Ozil get the big contract and doing nothing since.
WBA today - like watching Brazil 1970!
A Big Sam team. ;D
Maguires Tackle on Wellbeck - lucky! ::)
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 04, 2021, 10:28:17 PM
Maguires Tackle on Wellbeck - lucky! ::)
Was checked by VAR, so plenty eyes on it
You couldn't have argued if it was given but don't think it was that obvious a mistake so probably hard for them to overturn it.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 04, 2021, 10:28:17 PM
Maguires Tackle on Wellbeck - lucky! ::)
Clear penalty, would have been given if the roles were reversed.
Quote from: laoislad on April 05, 2021, 08:20:27 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 04, 2021, 10:28:17 PM
Maguires Tackle on Wellbeck - lucky! ::)
Clear penalty, would have been given if the roles were reversed.
So clear they didn't give it
Palace are piss poor. Expect Everton to win this 3/4 nil
Everton 1-1 Crystal Palace
Quote from: macker15 on April 05, 2021, 07:23:15 PM
Palace are piss poor. Expect Everton to win this 3/4 nil
Do you watch much football
In fairness to Everton, the Palace goalkeeper pulled off some saves
Lingard is fairly finding form. Scored a great goal again tonight.
Quote from: GJL on April 05, 2021, 08:58:08 PM
Lingard is fairly finding form. Scored a great goal again tonight.
With the run in they have, they really do have a chance of 4th. Would be some achievement.
Quote from: shark on April 05, 2021, 09:06:36 PM
Quote from: GJL on April 05, 2021, 08:58:08 PM
Lingard is fairly finding form. Scored a great goal again tonight.
With the run in they have, they really do have a chance of 4th. Would be some achievement.
That would be good to see.
Great result for West Ham. Lingard superb again.
Quote from: shark on April 05, 2021, 09:06:36 PM
Quote from: GJL on April 05, 2021, 08:58:08 PM
Lingard is fairly finding form. Scored a great goal again tonight.
With the run in they have, they really do have a chance of 4th. Would be some achievement.
West Ham overachieved. Thin squad particularly up front will probably catch up with them. Hopefully they get Europa League at least.
Deemed offside tonight.
(https://i.ibb.co/WKGBn1c/Screenshot-20210409-210756-2.png) (https://ibb.co/q17mBwR)
Luckily Wolves got a late goal!
You'd wonder what is the most logical workaround on borderline calls?
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 10, 2021, 08:52:51 AM
Luckily Wolves got a late goal!
You'd wonder what is the most logical workaround on borderline calls?
Either you're offside or you're not.
Look at it from the other teams perspective, you'd be claiming the goal shouldn't have stood because his finger was in an offside position.
Do you want marginal calls to go to the offensive?
Marginal calls should go with the on field decision. If the linesman puts his flag up, the VAR should be trying to prove beyond reason that he's on side and vice versa if given on side.
Quote from: Rich Ricci on April 10, 2021, 09:08:58 AM
Marginal calls should go with the on field decision. If the linesman puts his flag up, the VAR should be trying to prove beyond reason that he's on side and vice versa if given on side.
What would threshold for marginal be?
Quote from: Boycey on April 10, 2021, 09:10:59 AM
Quote from: Rich Ricci on April 10, 2021, 09:08:58 AM
Marginal calls should go with the on field decision. If the linesman puts his flag up, the VAR should be trying to prove beyond reason that he's on side and vice versa if given on side.
What would threshold for marginal be?
No threshold as such but the onus should be on VAR to disprove the on field call. As shown in the picture above they are drawing lines from asses and elbows and it's still no clearer as to whether he was on or off so the on field ruling should stand IMO.
But VAR proved it was offside!
So VAR is there to prevent illegal plays, like offsides, or not.
If that goal stood and afterwards as a supporter, manager or player seen that it was scored from an offside position you'd be happy for that? I doubt very much anyone would
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 10, 2021, 09:37:42 AM
But VAR proved it was offside!
So VAR is there to prevent illegal plays, like offsides, or not.
If that goal stood and afterwards as a supporter, manager or player seen that it was scored from an offside position you'd be happy for that? I doubt very much anyone would
I'm not really sure that they did. They've drawn a line and went with it. Are other leagues in Europe going to this length to try and disallow goals?
I don't think anyone would be complaining had that goal been allowed to stand. Hard to imagine Dcott Parker being furious post match that the thread on his shirt was offside. The outrage that it wasn't is more telling.
I'd have probably have been of the opinion when VAR was first introduced that offside is offside but over the course of the season they've taken obscene amounts of time to rule out goals by the most minute detail and even then there has been some debate as to if it was the right decision. I didn't see the match last night so don't know how long it took to come to the decision but in general taking so long to come up with half assed decisions is ruining the game.
It has redefined offside. Level is now offside. Like you say too the lines are basically subjective at times. Previously attacker got benefit of the doubt did they not?
Sure is the still image even representative of when the ball left the passer's boot? Could be a microsecond earlier or later and by then these players could be onside or offside as the case may be. They shouldn't be allowed to draw lines. The should just get a view of the still image and if it doesn't clearly contradict the on-field decision then the on-field decision should stand.
Quote from: trileacman on April 10, 2021, 01:38:16 PM
Sure is the still image even representative of when the ball left the passer's boot? Could be a microsecond earlier or later and by then these players could be onside or offside as the case may be. They shouldn't be allowed to draw lines. The should just get a view of the still image and if it doesn't clearly contradict the on-field decision then the on-field decision should stand.
I think i.read before given the speed that players can be running at the margin of error can actually be a few foot. Not sure if they have managed to narrow that down more. But that was certainly the case last season.
Leeds United with 10 men for all of the 2nd half beat Manchester City. Unbelievable Jeff!
Unbelievable when you've picked city in your last man standing comp >:( >:(
West Ham ain't hanging back
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 11, 2021, 03:14:39 PM
West Ham ain't hanging back
Flying. Champions league race is very interesting. Leicester looking over their shoulder now, but have a lovely run of 4 games coming up to steady themselves.
West Brom goal ruled off by VAR, though the offside they drew the lines on was the wrong player!! Holy feck
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2021, 06:29:48 PM
West Brom goal ruled off by VAR, though the offside they drew the lines on was the wrong player!! Holy feck
Hands and arms should be taken out of the equation re offside
Late surge by big Sam for the great escape. I wonder can they do it. Seven games left so a chance albeit a slim one.
Quote from: Silver hill on April 12, 2021, 07:03:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2021, 06:29:48 PM
West Brom goal ruled off by VAR, though the offside they drew the lines on was the wrong player!! Holy feck
Hands and arms should be taken out of the equation re offside
I thought it was already the case that bits of you that weren't legally allowed to score a goal could not be offside.
Is that not right? I didn't see tonight's games, so I might be missing something
First team to really boss City this year from what I've seen. Chelsea could certainly push on in the league and grab 4th
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2021, 07:00:26 PM
First team to really boss City this year from what I've seen. Chelsea could certainly push on in the league and grab 4th
A curtain raiser to a possible champions league final meeting if they both come through their semis!
Wouldn't that be exciting as this is absolutely brutal viewing
Quote from: An Watcher on April 17, 2021, 07:15:27 PM
Wouldn't that be exciting as this is absolutely brutal viewing
All about the result, nobody remembers the entertaining losers, I haven't met a fan who's left a match satisfied that they played well but lost
Quote from: An Watcher on April 17, 2021, 07:15:27 PM
Wouldn't that be exciting as this is absolutely brutal viewing
It was boring 1st half. A much better 2nd half. Tuchel has brought some improvement to Chelsea defence which was leaking goals for fun under Lampard
That's Man Citys quadruple hopes over. They'll have to settle for 3 trophies now?
Chelsea bullied City for most of that game. They're a very strong and physical team. Anytime I've seen them since Tuchel took over he's had them set up in a way that they look really hard to beat. Didn't see the WBA game so don't know what happened there lol
Quite fancied City to do all four this season. They would have been hoping to keep their poor performances for the league. Think the Arabs will be content with the champion leagues though.
City can still equal Liverpool's treble of League, European Cup and League Cup of 1984!
Can't see city winning champions league.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 17, 2021, 07:48:47 PM
City can still equal Liverpool's treble of League, European Cup and League Cup of 1984!
That'll be well celebrated across Manchester
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2021, 08:39:27 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 17, 2021, 07:48:47 PM
City can still equal Liverpool's treble of League, European Cup and League Cup of 1984!
That'll be well celebrated across Manchester
I'm sure it will! ::)
Sheffield United officially relegated tonight with six games to spare. They finished 9th last season.
Norwich promoted back to the Premier league.
City didn't want to win that today, if City play Chelsea in CL final I'd fancy City, the league game between these two I fancy Chelsea.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2021, 10:32:48 PM
City didn't want to win that today, if City play Chelsea in CL final I'd fancy City, the league game between these two I fancy Chelsea.
Yeah they probably wanted to avoid either Leicester or Southampton in the final! ::)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2021, 10:32:48 PM
City didn't want to win that today, if City play Chelsea in CL final I'd fancy City, the league game between these two I fancy Chelsea.
That's ridiculous.
Does anyone think City put out their best team?
Not sure if you understand how it works when you're fighting for trophies on multiple strands.
You rest your best players as best you can for the trophies you prioritise but you definitely don't go out not to win a game at that level. Weird thinking.
Quote from: ONeill on April 17, 2021, 11:45:28 PM
Not sure if you understand how it works when you're fighting for trophies on multiple strands.
You rest your best players as best you can for the trophies you prioritise but you definitely don't go out not to win a game at that level. Weird thinking.
So I'll ask the question again, it's very simple, did City play their best team?
They have won the league, PP gave paid out months ago. So they are playing a final (LC) against Spurs, been known for ages. They have managed to get to semifinal of CL, one good performance will win it, they have the toughest semi. The FA cup against a team they should beat and they make 6/7 changes.
Utd won the treble by playing their best team that was available for every game in the latter stages. But sure Pep knows what he's doing
But you said they didn't want to win.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2021, 07:00:26 PM
First team to really boss City this year from what I've seen. Chelsea could certainly push on in the league and grab 4th
Did you watch United make wee boys of City a few weeks back?
Quote from: ONeill on April 18, 2021, 12:05:00 AM
But you said they didn't want to win.
I did, if they wanted to win they'd put out their best team.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2021, 12:44:59 AM
Quote from: ONeill on April 18, 2021, 12:05:00 AM
But you said they didn't want to win.
I did, if they wanted to win they'd put out their best team.
Lol. Moronic comment.
Sure to hell with every other player outside their "supposed" first 11.
City should play the whole season and take part in 4 competitions with 11 players, that's more than enough.
Chelsea could actually win the Champions League.....good job Sid is banned at the moment he would be blowing a gasket.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 18, 2021, 01:28:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2021, 12:44:59 AM
Quote from: ONeill on April 18, 2021, 12:05:00 AM
But you said they didn't want to win.
I did, if they wanted to win they'd put out their best team.
Lol. Moronic comment.
Sure to hell with every other player outside their "supposed" first 11.
City should play the whole season and take part in 4 competitions with 11 players, that's more than enough.
The league is won, so your comment about the 'whole' season is daft , rest players or change your squad for the reaming league games, but the cup competitions at the latter stages you play your best team. He didn't, his gamble didn't pay off and they lost.
Spurs will be hoping they play the same team next week. I've a mate who's a life long City supporter, grew up in view of Main rd. he's raging Pep don't put out his best team.
Sometimes your best team is your freshest team!
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 18, 2021, 09:37:46 AM
Sometimes your best team is your freshest team!
If the freshest team don't play the right system then it gives the other team a chance, Chelsea are chasing 4th, FA cup and CL. They played their best team, and won the game.
In fairness to Pep, his 'second' would beat must teams
Personally I'm happy they lost, that's one less trophy my mate won't be bragging about.
Sterling, and Torres were invisible, I didn't even realise Sterling was on.
Do City even have a 'best' team? Anyone that plays Fantasy Football will testify the impossibility of predicting what team Pep might field on any given week....
For a team that was/is battling on 4 fronts, City are very hard to watch.
They aren't a patch on the teams of United 99/08, Arsenal 98/04, Chelsea under Ancelotti, or even the City team under Mancini/Pellegrini. Even the title winners Leicester Blackburn and Liverpool were a lot better to watch.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2021, 09:20:15 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 18, 2021, 01:28:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2021, 12:44:59 AM
Quote from: ONeill on April 18, 2021, 12:05:00 AM
But you said they didn't want to win.
I did, if they wanted to win they'd put out their best team.
Lol. Moronic comment.
Sure to hell with every other player outside their "supposed" first 11.
City should play the whole season and take part in 4 competitions with 11 players, that's more than enough.
The league is won, so your comment about the 'whole' season is daft , rest players or change your squad for the reaming league games, but the cup competitions at the latter stages you play your best team. He didn't, his gamble didn't pay off and they lost.
Spurs will be hoping they play the same team next week. I've a mate who's a life long City supporter, grew up in view of Main rd. he's raging Pep don't put out his best team.
Yea that's all well and good, and I'll probably agree that they didn't need to make as many changes, but to suggest they actually don't want to win because they didn't play their supposed best 11 (if they have one) is just nonsense.
For me Gündoğan Fodden Stones and the keeper Ederson, start.
You play your in form team, you don't play those players then you are giving teams a chance. For me that's not taking it seriously and concentrating on something else, like the CL.
Quote from: Boycey on April 18, 2021, 09:50:46 AM
Do City even have a 'best' team? Anyone that plays Fantasy Football will testify the impossibility of predicting what team Pep might field on any given week....
They have basically two first 11s. Struggled last season because they had issues at centre back. The signing of Dias and improvement of Stones fixed those issues.
The FA Cup is one competition Pep has a habit of losing semi finals.
fair play to gary neville, absolutely spot on.
Can someone give me the gist of this super league. How many times would these teams play each other? Relegation? What happens to their participation in the champions/europa league and their own national leagues?
Quote from: SHEEDY on April 18, 2021, 06:41:26 PM
fair play to gary neville, absolutely spot on.
The content was spot on but its hard to take serious when he spouts it sitting behind the microphone of an organisation that basically funded a break away league and both he and they continue to profit from doing so to this day. Very much a case of holier than thou
I think every neutral will be hoping Leicester City can win the FA Cup final however they will have to improve on today's performance to stand a chance of beating Chelsea.
Quote from: David McKeown on April 18, 2021, 08:15:16 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on April 18, 2021, 06:41:26 PM
fair play to gary neville, absolutely spot on.
The content was spot on but its hard to take serious when he spouts it sitting behind the microphone of an organisation that basically funded a break away league and both he and they continue to profit from doing so to this day. Very much a case of holier than thou
bit different though, premier league isn't an invite only closed shop.
Quote from: SHEEDY on April 18, 2021, 08:39:59 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 18, 2021, 08:15:16 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on April 18, 2021, 06:41:26 PM
fair play to gary neville, absolutely spot on.
The content was spot on but its hard to take serious when he spouts it sitting behind the microphone of an organisation that basically funded a break away league and both he and they continue to profit from doing so to this day. Very much a case of holier than thou
bit different though, premier league isn't an invite only closed shop.
If that's the only issue I'm sure it would be easily addressed. There are far bigger issues than simply no relegation.
Neville is absolutely right.
Quote from: David McKeown on April 18, 2021, 11:04:55 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on April 18, 2021, 08:39:59 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 18, 2021, 08:15:16 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on April 18, 2021, 06:41:26 PM
fair play to gary neville, absolutely spot on.
The content was spot on but its hard to take serious when he spouts it sitting behind the microphone of an organisation that basically funded a break away league and both he and they continue to profit from doing so to this day. Very much a case of holier than thou
bit different though, premier league isn't an invite only closed shop.
If that's the only issue I'm sure it would be easily addressed. There are far bigger issues than simply no relegation.
It won't be easily addressed. That is the main driver. These owners are scared shitless about being locked out of the champions league due to poor form. Like Arsenal currently. They want guaranteed revenue. If relegation is in place then Arsenal or Spurs are gone after one year - possibly never to return.
Quote from: shark on April 19, 2021, 07:13:31 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 18, 2021, 11:04:55 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on April 18, 2021, 08:39:59 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 18, 2021, 08:15:16 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on April 18, 2021, 06:41:26 PM
fair play to gary neville, absolutely spot on.
The content was spot on but its hard to take serious when he spouts it sitting behind the microphone of an organisation that basically funded a break away league and both he and they continue to profit from doing so to this day. Very much a case of holier than thou
bit different though, premier league isn't an invite only closed shop.
If that's the only issue I'm sure it would be easily addressed. There are far bigger issues than simply no relegation.
It won't be easily addressed. That is the main driver. These owners are scared shitless about being locked out of the champions league due to poor form. Like Arsenal currently. They want guaranteed revenue. If relegation is in place then Arsenal or Spurs are gone after one year - possibly never to return.
This is the issue.
When Sky came along with the Premier League was a rebranding exercise although the finances were greatly enhanced inline with the new TV money. three up, three down was still in play so there was a sense of fairness although the bigger teams on the TV more got the most money.
This new league is an abomination with no sense of fairness at all. Pure, unadulterated greed by the owners.
Fuckem, let them at it but ban any player who plays from FIFA, UEFA competitions and before long it'll be like the Chinese super league.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 19, 2021, 09:20:24 AM
Quote from: shark on April 19, 2021, 07:13:31 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 18, 2021, 11:04:55 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on April 18, 2021, 08:39:59 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 18, 2021, 08:15:16 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on April 18, 2021, 06:41:26 PM
fair play to gary neville, absolutely spot on.
The content was spot on but its hard to take serious when he spouts it sitting behind the microphone of an organisation that basically funded a break away league and both he and they continue to profit from doing so to this day. Very much a case of holier than thou
bit different though, premier league isn't an invite only closed shop.
If that's the only issue I'm sure it would be easily addressed. There are far bigger issues than simply no relegation.
It won't be easily addressed. That is the main driver. These owners are scared shitless about being locked out of the champions league due to poor form. Like Arsenal currently. They want guaranteed revenue. If relegation is in place then Arsenal or Spurs are gone after one year - possibly never to return.
This is the issue.
When Sky came along with the Premier League was a rebranding exercise although the finances were greatly enhanced inline with the new TV money. three up, three down was still in play so there was a sense of fairness although the bigger teams on the TV more got the most money.
This new league is an abomination with no sense of fairness at all. Pure, unadulterated greed by the owners.
Fuckem, let them at it but ban any player who plays from FIFA, UEFA competitions and before long it'll be like the Chinese super league.
It could end up that players have to decide if they would rather take home a large pay cheque every week and forfeit the right to play for their country or take home significantly less but play for their country.
The majority of players will go for the money.
Pretty straightforward choice
Mourinho sacked!
Its all a soap opera for men i tells ye
Never understood why spurs hired him.
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 19, 2021, 10:23:15 AM
Mourinho sacked!
Its all a soap opera for men i tells ye
Good day to bury bad news and all that..
Saw a tweet he refused to take training due to the proposed Super League. If so fair fcuks to him leaving aside all the other issues with the man.
Anyway ive work to do. Laters. What a day. And its only 1030 ffs
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 19, 2021, 10:40:15 AM
Saw a tweet he refused to take training due to the proposed Super League. If so fair fcuks to him leaving aside all the other issues with the man.
Anyway ive work to do. Laters. What a day. And its only 1030 ffs
Listening to TalkSPORT while out running and Jim White is literally coming in his jocks with all the breaking news this morning ;D
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 19, 2021, 10:40:15 AM
Saw a tweet he refused to take training due to the proposed Super League. If so fair fcuks to him leaving aside all the other issues with the man.
I wouldn't believe that!
So he lasted a bit longer than Christmas. An absolute bullshitter. Nothing else matters but him. Spurs are well rid of him.
But some other big club will no doubt hire him and he'll destroy them too.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 19, 2021, 10:55:06 AM
So he lasted a bit longer than Christmas. An absolute bullshitter. Nothing else matters but him. Spurs are well rid of him.
But some other big club will no doubt hire him and he'll destroy them too.
I'd say his next job may be an international team. He is a spent force at club level. All be it with a lot of trophies in the bag.
Be interesting to see who Spurs have lined up...
Quote from: Hound on April 19, 2021, 10:51:29 AM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 19, 2021, 10:40:15 AM
Saw a tweet he refused to take training due to the proposed Super League. If so fair fcuks to him leaving aside all the other issues with the man.
I wouldn't believe that!
Fair enough. Thought it was a blue tick account but seems to have started from a "banter" account. Still a really really weird time to sack your manager...week before a cup final?!
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 19, 2021, 01:17:34 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 19, 2021, 10:51:29 AM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 19, 2021, 10:40:15 AM
Saw a tweet he refused to take training due to the proposed Super League. If so fair fcuks to him leaving aside all the other issues with the man.
I wouldn't believe that!
Fair enough. Thought it was a blue tick account but seems to have started from a "banter" account. Still a really really weird time to sack your manager...week before a cup final?!
And replace him with Ryan Mason!
When do Premier League kickoff times get set? The kickoffs for May 1st are still all listed for 3pm Saturday.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/scores-fixtures/2021-05-01
Quote from: dec on April 19, 2021, 01:53:04 PM
When do Premier League kickoff times get set? The kickoffs for May 1st are still all listed for 3pm Saturday.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/scores-fixtures/2021-05-01
Should be announced this week, before Friday I would imagine if not impacted by the outside factors.
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 19, 2021, 10:40:15 AM
Saw a tweet he refused to take training due to the proposed Super League. If so fair fcuks to him leaving aside all the other issues with the man.
Anyway ive work to do. Laters. What a day. And its only 1030 ffs
Somebody else's fault again. Deflect the blame. What a tool.
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 19, 2021, 10:23:15 AM
Mourinho sacked!
Its all a soap opera for men i tells ye
Odd appointment, everyone knew he was no longer special and now odd to sack him before a cup final.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 19, 2021, 04:08:48 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 19, 2021, 10:23:15 AM
Mourinho sacked!
Its all a soap opera for men i tells ye
Odd appointment, everyone knew he was no longer special and now odd to sack him before a cup final.
It does seem very bitter and petty.
Chances are City will win handily, but Jose got them there. You think they'd let him see out the week and lead the team.
Maybe they're afraid he might win it, and then they'd be sacking the man who brought a very rare trophy to the club.
Quote from: J70 on April 19, 2021, 04:27:34 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 19, 2021, 04:08:48 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 19, 2021, 10:23:15 AM
Mourinho sacked!
Its all a soap opera for men i tells ye
Odd appointment, everyone knew he was no longer special and now odd to sack him before a cup final.
It does seem very bitter and petty.
Chances are City will win handily, but Jose got them there. You think they'd let him see out the week and lead the team.
Maybe they're afraid he might win it, and then they'd be sacking the man who brought a very rare trophy to the club.
I would it's highly likely the case they were afraid he might win it! Although then last week would have been better so as not to make it so obvious. Maybe Levy decided to leave it until today because he knew there'd be other big news!
Quote from: J70 on April 19, 2021, 04:27:34 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 19, 2021, 04:08:48 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 19, 2021, 10:23:15 AM
Mourinho sacked!
Its all a soap opera for men i tells ye
Odd appointment, everyone knew he was no longer special and now odd to sack him before a cup final.
It does seem very bitter and petty.
Chances are City will win handily, but Jose got them there. You think they'd let him see out the week and lead the team.
Maybe they're afraid he might win it, and then they'd be sacking the man who brought a very rare trophy to the club.
A very rare trophy for apparently one of Europe's elite clubs 🙄😂
Quote from: J70 on April 19, 2021, 04:27:34 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 19, 2021, 04:08:48 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 19, 2021, 10:23:15 AM
Mourinho sacked!
Its all a soap opera for men i tells ye
Odd appointment, everyone knew he was no longer special and now odd to sack him before a cup final.
It does seem very bitter and petty.
Chances are City will win handily, but Jose got them there. You think they'd let him see out the week and lead the team.
Maybe they're afraid he might win it, and then they'd be sacking the man who brought a very rare trophy to the club.
Yeah that would be awkward for them. Hopefully the new manager bounces takes them past City.
So that's that, the team with the most league titles in English football will be Utd, top of the perch.
And the team with the most European titles will be Liverpool.
European and European Super League royalty.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 08:44:55 PM
And the team with the most European titles will be Liverpool.
European and European Super League royalty.
Well if it's on going that's up for debate ;D
I see Liverpool were lucky tonight, VAR got that decision wrong, Liverpool got that decision against Leeds at the start of the year.
Strange how it's worked out
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2021, 09:57:22 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 08:44:55 PM
And the team with the most European titles will be Liverpool.
European and European Super League royalty.
Well if it's on going that's up for debate ;D
I see Liverpool were lucky tonight, VAR got that decision wrong, Liverpool got that decision against Leeds at the start of the year.
Strange how it's worked out
The league will still continue to go on though, so that's up for debate too then..
He pulled his hand away from the ball, no penalty.
Wouldn't surprise me if Klopp steps down at the end of this season. The Bayern Munich and the German national gigs are there to tempt him.
Fair play to James Milner when asked about the European super league. I don't like and hope it doesn't happen he said.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 19, 2021, 10:13:19 PM
Fair play to James Milner when asked about the European super league. I don't like and hope it doesn't happen he said.
He's retiring soon so I'd like to hear Trent say it
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2021, 10:14:23 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 19, 2021, 10:13:19 PM
Fair play to James Milner when asked about the European super league. I don't like and hope it doesn't happen he said.
He's retiring soon so I'd like to hear Trent say it
He was the captain for the night so was speaking on behalf of his team mates.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 19, 2021, 10:27:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2021, 10:14:23 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 19, 2021, 10:13:19 PM
Fair play to James Milner when asked about the European super league. I don't like and hope it doesn't happen he said.
He's retiring soon so I'd like to hear Trent say it
He was the captain for the night so was speaking on behalf of his team mates.
Ok
Thought it was a nice gesture of Leeds to leave a set of tee-shirts for the Liverpool lads to wear during the warm up..
Everyone knows Liverpool love warm up tee-shirts.
Chelsea getting it tough at home
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2021, 09:01:06 PM
Chelsea getting it tough at home
Put all their eggs in the FA Cup semi-final at the weekend. Probably a correct decision, if they win the Cup and still qualify for CL.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 20, 2021, 10:11:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2021, 09:01:06 PM
Chelsea getting it tough at home
Put all their eggs in the FA Cup semi-final at the weekend. Probably a correct decision, if they win the Cup and still qualify for CL.
I've said it before, at this stage play your best team. City dumped out of cup, not playing best team, Chelsea's chances of qualifying for CL diminished, out of their own hands. No guarantee of beating RM or winning final. You play each game like a final.
Brighton well organised outfit under Potter and have made themselves difficult to beat away against super league clubs this season. Tonight they could have won, had the better chances to score.
City's best team (in my view) getting bate!
Calm down... only 23 minutes gone and already they've pulled it back!
Shocked at this with him being such a good family man and all....
https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/1385614453916459011
I'm disappointed it's taken you a couple of hours ;D
Quote from: Boycey on April 23, 2021, 05:58:22 PM
I'm disappointed it's taken you a couple of hours ;D
f**k! him and Neville are his besties ;D
The only goal in tonights Everton v Arsenal game was some howler.
Well done Everton.
Wins away to super league teams should count double 😎
Quote from: SHEEDY on April 23, 2021, 10:09:56 PM
Wins away to super league teams should count double 😎
how the feck could Arsenal and Spurs be considered Super? Two laughing stocks!
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 23, 2021, 11:15:22 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on April 23, 2021, 10:09:56 PM
Wins away to super league teams should count double 😎
how the feck could Arsenal and Spurs be considered Super? Two laughing stocks!
Arsenal have 3 times as many EPL wins as Liverpool
Quote from: StPatsAbu on April 24, 2021, 01:27:39 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 23, 2021, 11:15:22 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on April 23, 2021, 10:09:56 PM
Wins away to super league teams should count double 😎
how the feck could Arsenal and Spurs be considered Super? Two laughing stocks!
Arsenal have 3 times as many EPL wins as Liverpool
EPL?
Think about that one for a second.
Quote from: shark on April 24, 2021, 08:02:31 AM
Quote from: StPatsAbu on April 24, 2021, 01:27:39 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 23, 2021, 11:15:22 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on April 23, 2021, 10:09:56 PM
Wins away to super league teams should count double 😎
how the feck could Arsenal and Spurs be considered Super? Two laughing stocks!
Arsenal have 3 times as many EPL wins as Liverpool
EPL?
Think about that one for a second.
No need to.
Look at who is making the comment instead.
Brilliant finish from that one season wonder Salah.
VAR has really helped Liverpool these last few games
This could be the decider for the fourth spot, Chelsea hitting a bump at the minute in the league so all to play for
Not sure how the ref and VAR seen a red card offence for West Ham there?
VAR has sucked rather enjoyment out of football. Chilwell screeching and rolling around. No physio needed. Azpilicueta master for screaming with slightest hint of contact.
I'd guess that is how the top 4 will finish.
Quote from: laoislad on April 24, 2021, 12:35:56 PM
Brilliant finish from that one season wonder Salah.
;D ;D ;D
The race for 4th is going to be very exciting
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56787573
Ifs and buts galore.........
Quote from: Jim Bob on April 25, 2021, 12:31:00 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56787573
Ifs and buts galore.........
Should have brought back the cup winners cup than introduce an Europa Conference League.
My god that 3rd tier competition sounds depressing.
Liverpool could be the first winners of it, be odds on favourites I'd say
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 25, 2021, 01:47:32 PM
Liverpool could be the first winners of it, be odds on favourites I'd say
Yes, they'd probably give it the same importance that they give to they give to the League Cup and FA Cup. You probably see an appearance from the u-23's again.
I suppose this competition will be like the abandoned European Cup winners Cup, back in the day! Many clubs got excited about winning that competition.
Anyway what are you doing talking about this? United have an upcoming Europa League semi-final to get excited about?
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 25, 2021, 03:45:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 25, 2021, 01:47:32 PM
Liverpool could be the first winners of it, be odds on favourites I'd say
Yes, they'd probably give it the same importance that they give to they give to the League Cup and FA Cup. You probably see an appearance from the u-23's again.
I suppose this competition will be like the abandoned European Cup winners Cup, back in the day! Many clubs got excited about winning that competition.
Anyway what are you doing talking about this? United have an upcoming Europa League semi-final to get excited about?
It's only a route in the CL, an intermediate title at best, nice to win but won't be any cheering or buses
Roy Kane was 100% about Tottenham softness weeks ago. They are the Galway of the premier league. Backed Manchester City to win 5-0. Raheem Sterling 1st goalscorer. Pep has never lost a cup final
How many fans they let in? It already feels more like a bloody football match....
Quote from: Boycey on April 25, 2021, 04:42:53 PM
How many fans they let in? It already feels more like a bloody football match....
8,000 though half is meant to be NHS staff/workers.
Quote from: macker15 on April 25, 2021, 04:28:12 PM
Roy Kane was 100% about Tottenham softness weeks ago. They are the Galway of the premier league. Backed Manchester City to win 5-0. Raheem Sterling 1st goalscorer. Pep has never lost a cup final
They'll need to get a move on
Quote from: macker15 on April 25, 2021, 04:28:12 PM
Pep has never lost a cup final
Lost the Copa Del Rey final against Mourinhos Real Madrid in 2011.
Average enough match there too, compounded by having to listen to Martin Tyler ejaculate anytime Phil Foden so much as tied his laces.
Man City winning means 7th place in league goes into Europe league conference, as long as Chelsea and Leicester stay in top 5.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 25, 2021, 05:21:42 PM
Quote from: macker15 on April 25, 2021, 04:28:12 PM
Pep has never lost a cup final
Lost the Copa Del Rey final against Mourinhos Real Madrid in 2011.
Which is why Levy is an imbecile sacking Jose a week before the cup final
Quote from: StPatsAbu on April 25, 2021, 06:29:44 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 25, 2021, 05:21:42 PM
Quote from: macker15 on April 25, 2021, 04:28:12 PM
Pep has never lost a cup final
Lost the Copa Del Rey final against Mourinhos Real Madrid in 2011.
Which is why Levy is an imbecile sacking Jose a week before the cup final
Levy could have waited until after that final, Jose past his best however one can't ignore his cup final record
Mediocre final with few clear cut chances. Poorly defended corner in the 82 minute the difference and the goal scorer Laporte was lucky to avoid a 2nd yellow before he scored.
Thought it was crazy too but theres the school of thought that if Spurs had have won it wouldve been very hard to sack Mourinho after the event...
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 25, 2021, 06:43:46 PM
Quote from: StPatsAbu on April 25, 2021, 06:29:44 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 25, 2021, 05:21:42 PM
Quote from: macker15 on April 25, 2021, 04:28:12 PM
Pep has never lost a cup final
Lost the Copa Del Rey final against Mourinhos Real Madrid in 2011.
Which is why Levy is an imbecile sacking Jose a week before the cup final
Levy could have waited until after that final, Jose past his best however one can't ignore his cup final record
Mediocre final with few clear cut chances. Poorly defended corner in the 82 minute the difference and the goal scorer Laporte was lucky to avoid a 2nd yellow before he scored.
Yes he prob should have walked alright. Referees always reluctant send players off in showcase finals
Leicester have 3rd spot sown up now I'd have thought.
Some goal by Iheanacho to seal it all the same. Scoring for fun that lad.
Very highly rated. Wonder will he move to one of the bigger clubs soon.
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 27, 2021, 09:25:29 AM
Very highly rated. Wonder will he move to one of the bigger clubs soon.
He was at City before he moved to Leicester for what was pretty decent money. He wasn't cheap but now showing his worth
I think City might have a buy back clause too from what I was seeing over last week or so on twitter. So with Aguero going, it might be a low key switch back.
Iheanacho on a serious hot streak. 14 in 14, when strikers hit a run like that they can't miss.
He has often blown hot and cold for Leicester, not a regular starter. He'd be well advised to stay out as they will need plenty to compete in CL next season and maintain their current form.
Second captains had an interesting viewpoint on punishment for the six clubs who looked to join the Siper league. Points deduction, of say 10 points, from start of next season. Would certainly make the league more interesting. Can't see it happening myself.
Aye what's his true level, the 14 in 14 run he's currently on or the 14 in 76 games before that.... Looks really good at the moment but I not sure he'll be City's 1st choice to replace Aguero
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 10:09:13 AM
Iheanacho on a serious hot streak. 14 in 14, when strikers hit a run like that they can't miss.
He has often blown hot and cold for Leicester, not a regular starter. He'd be well advised to stay out as they will need plenty to compete in CL next season and maintain their current form.
Second captains had an interesting viewpoint on punishment for the six clubs who looked to join the Siper league. Points deduction, of say 10 points, from start of next season. Would certainly make the league more interesting. Can't see it happening myself.
As much as the actions of the six were odious I'm not sure what rules they may have broken in relation to the Premiership.
A one year ban from the champions league should be in order for all them.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 27, 2021, 10:21:37 AM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 10:09:13 AM
Iheanacho on a serious hot streak. 14 in 14, when strikers hit a run like that they can't miss.
He has often blown hot and cold for Leicester, not a regular starter. He'd be well advised to stay out as they will need plenty to compete in CL next season and maintain their current form.
Second captains had an interesting viewpoint on punishment for the six clubs who looked to join the Siper league. Points deduction, of say 10 points, from start of next season. Would certainly make the league more interesting. Can't see it happening myself.
As much as the actions of the six were odious I'm not sure what rules they may have broken in relation to the Premiership.
A one year ban from the champions league should be in order for all them.
They had some discussion round this alright. Said that one rule potentially broken was that they can't enter a competition without permission that wasn't already listed but their was punishment for breaching this listed.
The points deduction could be mute as they didn't actually receive any advantage from jumping into this new league. They compared this to a situation where clubs get deducted points for going into administration- they have overspent beyond their means to put themselves in an advantageous position (or they should have!), so the points deduction is a deterrent for that. In this case no advantage accrued. It was the owners who should be punished more so but how do you do that.
This was from a premier league point of view. Expulsion from CL mate come at UEFA level.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 27, 2021, 10:21:37 AM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 10:09:13 AM
Iheanacho on a serious hot streak. 14 in 14, when strikers hit a run like that they can't miss.
He has often blown hot and cold for Leicester, not a regular starter. He'd be well advised to stay out as they will need plenty to compete in CL next season and maintain their current form.
Second captains had an interesting viewpoint on punishment for the six clubs who looked to join the Siper league. Points deduction, of say 10 points, from start of next season. Would certainly make the league more interesting. Can't see it happening myself.
As much as the actions of the six were odious I'm not sure what rules they may have broken in relation to the Premiership.
A one year ban from the champions league should be in order for all them.
I'd agree with this. And should be implemented next year.....
If you ban the clubs you only strengthen the resolve to try this again, what rules did they break? And you feel they will try again, unless bridges are built.
Morally is a different argument, football hasn't been moral in decades, let alone years. I'm actually shocked at the uproar to the Super League considering some things that have happened in football over the years to silence.
How welcoming are UEFA going to be for Real Madrid v West Ham in the Group Stage next year? We might think it would be a novelty, but the Asians, South Americans etc aren't going to tune in for that.
You will also be punishing the players / fans and coaches of clubs that had absolutely no input into any of it. This type of primitive punishment will lead to even more unrest down the line, the English Clubs helped the downfall of the Super League via their fans, just what would punishing those same fans serve to do?
CL has introduced more teams into the competition I believe, https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/mediaservices/mediareleases/news/0268-1213f7aa85bb-d56154ff8fe8-1000--uefa-announces-new-format-for-club-competitions-to-be-introduce/
So Madrid playing West Ham may be a reality when that kicks off, four more places, taking it from 32 teams to 36, when they should reduce it!
Complaining about a ESL and then increasing the numbers for this is a bit strange
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 27, 2021, 10:42:49 AM
If you ban the clubs you only strengthen the resolve to try this again, what rules did they break? And you feel they will try again, unless bridges are built.
Morally is a different argument, football hasn't been moral in decades, let alone years. I'm actually shocked at the uproar to the Super League considering some things that have happened in football over the years to silence.
How welcoming are UEFA going to be for Real Madrid v West Ham in the Group Stage next year? We might think it would be a novelty, but the Asians, South Americans etc aren't going to tune in for that.
You will also be punishing the players / fans and coaches of clubs that had absolutely no input into any of it. This type of primitive punishment will lead to even more unrest down the line, the English Clubs helped the downfall of the Super League via their fans, just what would punishing those same fans serve to do?
Surely if anyone is getting banned the ones that are saying it's still going ahead would be first in the docks?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
CL has introduced more teams into the competition I believe, https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/mediaservices/mediareleases/news/0268-1213f7aa85bb-d56154ff8fe8-1000--uefa-announces-new-format-for-club-competitions-to-be-introduce/
So Madrid playing West Ham may be a reality when that kicks off, four more places, taking it from 32 teams to 36, when they should reduce it!
Complaining about a ESL and then increasing the numbers for this is a bit strange
Exactly, but its about 'growing the game' etc when in reality its about getting more money. The CL has too many teams in it and there are too many dud matches, much in the way that there are in Euro/WC Qualifying groups and even at the tournaments also.
Surely if anything is to be done, it should be limiting the amount of money that a club can spend on transfers and wages. Probably ways around that too though.
If that meant billionaires looking instead to Europe to buy up clubs, and less foreign players coming to the PL, then so be it. I think that would actually be a good thing. More British/Irish players featuring in the PL
Quote from: BennyCake on April 27, 2021, 11:39:06 AM
Surely if anything is to be done, it should be limiting the amount of money that a club can spend on transfers and wages. Probably ways around that too though.
If that meant billionaires looking instead to Europe to buy up clubs, and less foreign players coming to the PL, then so be it. I think that would actually be a good thing. More British/Irish players featuring in the PL
I watched highlights of the 1989 FA Cup final on youtube the other day.
Apart from Grobbelaar, there wasn't a single other player on either side who wasn't from Britain or Ireland. Managers too.
From an Irish point of view alone, you'd Houghton, Aldridge, Sheedy, Staunton and Whelan.
When's the last time any Irish man played in an FA Cup final?
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2021, 02:49:25 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 27, 2021, 11:39:06 AM
Surely if anything is to be done, it should be limiting the amount of money that a club can spend on transfers and wages. Probably ways around that too though.
If that meant billionaires looking instead to Europe to buy up clubs, and less foreign players coming to the PL, then so be it. I think that would actually be a good thing. More British/Irish players featuring in the PL
I watched highlights of the 1989 FA Cup final on youtube the other day.
Apart from Grobbelaar, there wasn't a single other player on either side who wasn't from Britain or Ireland. Managers too.
From an Irish point of view alone, you'd Houghton, Aldridge, Sheedy, Staunton and Whelan.
When's the last time any Irish man played in an FA Cup final?
It's the same in the general population. EU expansion in 2004 or so opened the doors to mass immigration.
It's a feature of the economic system to have asset bubbles driving up the price of players and large scale immigration driving up the price of houses.
It's all temporary. Whn the bubble deflates soccer may go back to being local.
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2021, 02:49:25 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 27, 2021, 11:39:06 AM
Surely if anything is to be done, it should be limiting the amount of money that a club can spend on transfers and wages. Probably ways around that too though.
If that meant billionaires looking instead to Europe to buy up clubs, and less foreign players coming to the PL, then so be it. I think that would actually be a good thing. More British/Irish players featuring in the PL
I watched highlights of the 1989 FA Cup final on youtube the other day.
Apart from Grobbelaar, there wasn't a single other player on either side who wasn't from Britain or Ireland. Managers too.
From an Irish point of view alone, you'd Houghton, Aldridge, Sheedy, Staunton and Whelan.
When's the last time any Irish man played in an FA Cup final?
Damian Delaney 5 year ago I think.
Unless you're including Northern Ireland, in which case Craig Cathcart 2 years ago.
Have to go back 8 years to find a winner. James McCarthy for Wigan.
There was the foreigner cap in those days too. I don't think south players counted in that? (Presumably north was a given too).
That changed things a bit.
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2021, 02:49:25 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 27, 2021, 11:39:06 AM
Surely if anything is to be done, it should be limiting the amount of money that a club can spend on transfers and wages. Probably ways around that too though.
If that meant billionaires looking instead to Europe to buy up clubs, and less foreign players coming to the PL, then so be it. I think that would actually be a good thing. More British/Irish players featuring in the PL
I watched highlights of the 1989 FA Cup final on youtube the other day.
Apart from Grobbelaar, there wasn't a single other player on either side who wasn't from Britain or Ireland. Managers too.
From an Irish point of view alone, you'd Houghton, Aldridge, Sheedy, Staunton and Whelan.
When's the last time any Irish man played in an FA Cup final?
1979 FA Cup final: Arsenal v Man Utd. There were 5 from NI starting, 3 from ROI. And Arsenal's manager from NI. There were also 5 Scots.
Would there even be 8 NI/ROI players in total in the PL this season?
Quote from: BennyCake on April 27, 2021, 06:42:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2021, 02:49:25 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 27, 2021, 11:39:06 AM
Surely if anything is to be done, it should be limiting the amount of money that a club can spend on transfers and wages. Probably ways around that too though.
If that meant billionaires looking instead to Europe to buy up clubs, and less foreign players coming to the PL, then so be it. I think that would actually be a good thing. More British/Irish players featuring in the PL
I watched highlights of the 1989 FA Cup final on youtube the other day.
Apart from Grobbelaar, there wasn't a single other player on either side who wasn't from Britain or Ireland. Managers too.
From an Irish point of view alone, you'd Houghton, Aldridge, Sheedy, Staunton and Whelan.
When's the last time any Irish man played in an FA Cup final?
1979 FA Cup final: Arsenal v Man Utd. There were 5 from NI starting, 3 from ROI. And Arsenal's manager from NI. There were also 5 Scots.
Would there even be 8 NI/ROI players in total in the PL this season?
35 (28 + 7). But you'd be forgiven for not realising.
35? Really?
Im struggling beyond a few Burnley players, Dallas, Long, Evans, Coleman, Hendrick and the Liverpool goalie.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
CL has introduced more teams into the competition I believe, https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/mediaservices/mediareleases/news/0268-1213f7aa85bb-d56154ff8fe8-1000--uefa-announces-new-format-for-club-competitions-to-be-introduce/
So Madrid playing West Ham may be a reality when that kicks off, four more places, taking it from 32 teams to 36, when they should reduce it!
Complaining about a ESL and then increasing the numbers for this is a bit strange
RTÉ gave a good break down on the changes. I'm not sure how that improves the current format which already has a lot of boring group stage games.
(https://i.ibb.co/vB1Rcw3/IMG-20210427-193820-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KG6S502)
How will the home advantage for the group matches be done?
I'd rather play Real Madrid at a deafening, seething Anfield than at the Bernebeau.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 27, 2021, 07:12:13 PM
35? Really?
Im struggling beyond a few Burnley players, Dallas, Long, Evans, Coleman, Hendrick and the Liverpool goalie.
The number is actually based on appearance in match day squad rather than appearance on field. So a few like Flynn (Leicester) and Odubeko (West Ham) are included. Bit misleading I guess.
I seen West Ham had Conor Coventry on the bench at the weekend
See the PL Hall of Fame opened last week with Henry and Shearer the first two in it. Apparently it was supposed to be Giggs and Shearer, but Giggs was not selected due to being accused of a crime. Does that mean his footballing achievements are ignored now, even when he has been found guilty of nothing?
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 30, 2021, 08:32:35 AM
See the PL Hall of Fame opened last week with Henry and Shearer the first two in it. Apparently it was supposed to be Giggs and Shearer, but Giggs was not selected due to being accused of a crime. Does that mean his footballing achievements are ignored now, even when he has been found guilty of nothing?
I personally think its the right thing to do, until his case is over, then should he be found not guilty put him in there. I haven't read up too much on the case so wouldn't comment on it until I know more, but it seems serious enough, that would rule out certain players though going forward if this is the case, Cantona, Adams and Big Dunc to name a few
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 30, 2021, 08:42:32 AM
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 30, 2021, 08:32:35 AM
See the PL Hall of Fame opened last week with Henry and Shearer the first two in it. Apparently it was supposed to be Giggs and Shearer, but Giggs was not selected due to being accused of a crime. Does that mean his footballing achievements are ignored now, even when he has been found guilty of nothing?
I personally think its the right thing to do, until his case is over, then should he be found not guilty put him in there. I haven't read up too much on the case so wouldn't comment on it until I know more, but it seems serious enough, that would rule out certain players though going forward if this is the case, Cantona, Adams and Big Dunc to name a few
Yeah Tony Adams famously accused of assaulting two women and controlling behaviour.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 30, 2021, 08:42:32 AM
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 30, 2021, 08:32:35 AM
See the PL Hall of Fame opened last week with Henry and Shearer the first two in it. Apparently it was supposed to be Giggs and Shearer, but Giggs was not selected due to being accused of a crime. Does that mean his footballing achievements are ignored now, even when he has been found guilty of nothing?
I personally think its the right thing to do, until his case is over, then should he be found not guilty put him in there. I haven't read up too much on the case so wouldn't comment on it until I know more, but it seems serious enough, that would rule out certain players though going forward if this is the case, Cantona, Adams and Big Dunc to name a few
No matter how much of a tube he is off the field he achieved more than any player in premier league history on it.
There would be some amount of players excluded from individual awards if off the field accusations or convictions are taken into account. Ronaldo still in the running for all the big awards even though he is accused of rape.
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 30, 2021, 09:05:05 AM
There would be some amount of players excluded from individual awards if off the field accusations or convictions are taken into account. Ronaldo still in the running for all the big awards even though he is accused of rape.
George Best was an alcoholic, Maradonna was a coke head- still 2 of the best ever to kick a ball.
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 30, 2021, 09:57:37 AM
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 30, 2021, 09:05:05 AM
There would be some amount of players excluded from individual awards if off the field accusations or convictions are taken into account. Ronaldo still in the running for all the big awards even though he is accused of rape.
George Best was an alcoholic, Maradonna was a coke head- still 2 of the best ever to kick a ball.
True, their list of indiscretions would be a lot longer than the rest too.
I see fans are back in Old Trafford
https://twitter.com/RedIssue/status/1388845540616638467?s=20
Least they ain't firing bricks through bus windows
Death threats to Woodward? #2canplaythatgame
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on May 02, 2021, 02:58:11 PM
Death threats to Woodward? #2canplaythatgame
He's gonna die,
He's gonna die,
Malcolm Glazer's gonna die,
How we kill him I don't know,
Cut him up from head to toe,
All I know is Glazer's gonna die.
Lovely :o
The FA should relegate the team.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 02, 2021, 03:07:20 PM
The FA should relegate the team.
Yes any set of supporters that try and kill players and officials should be relegated
Fair play to all of them. Anything that puts pressure on the leaches.
Quote from: GJL on May 02, 2021, 03:17:19 PM
Fair play to all of them. Anything that puts pressure on the leaches.
What does firing flares at the commentary box achieve?
Quote from: laoislad on May 02, 2021, 03:18:29 PM
Quote from: GJL on May 02, 2021, 03:17:19 PM
Fair play to all of them. Anything that puts pressure on the leaches.
What does firing flares at the commentary box achieve?
Public's awareness and massive press coverage. Builds pressure.
No issue with the protests. Fair fucks.
United's stadium security though??
Quote from: J70 on May 02, 2021, 04:07:32 PM
No issue with the protests. Fair fucks.
United's stadium security though??
Yes storming the stadium and firing flares around the place is the way to go.
Quote from: GJL on May 02, 2021, 03:24:54 PM
Quote from: laoislad on May 02, 2021, 03:18:29 PM
Quote from: GJL on May 02, 2021, 03:17:19 PM
Fair play to all of them. Anything that puts pressure on the leaches.
What does firing flares at the commentary box achieve?
Public's awareness and massive press coverage. Builds pressure.
Does throwing camera equipment around help also?
https://twitter.com/razza6999/status/1388852110566076420?s=21
Don't think the protests count for anything. Owners are from another continent and won't be affected. Also, the whole anti-Glazer campaign a few years ago lasted a lot longer and had a lot more weight behind it yet it did nothing.
Quote from: J70 on May 02, 2021, 04:07:32 PM
No issue with the protests. Fair fucks.
United's stadium security though??
Would be useless with that sized crowd, the police left unprepared with this huge turn out when it was flagged all week is a little odd.
Gary Neville had a message for protesters outside his hotel across for Old Trafford
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0YcFc4XIAEav1j?format=jpg&name=900x900)
If that was Liverpool fans that had broken into anfield the media would all be frothing at the mouth over it. But they're not, cos it's not Liverpool.
Dock Man Utd 10 points.
Quote from: macker15 on May 02, 2021, 04:27:26 PM
Dock Man Utd 10 points.
Should be docked 14 points immediately imo :D
Have to laugh at the hypocrisy of Liverpool fans trying to have a go at man utd fans for protesting against their owners. Did Liverpool fans not protest against their owners in the past?
Of the 6 teams that were due to set up the super league it looked like Liverpool fans were least vocal against it. Most of the fans seemed to accept the apology, shrug their shoulders and stick their flags back up.
Good man Sheedy you never fail to be predictable ;D
Everything is about Liverpool to you isn't it ;D
We want a billionaire owner out, and a different billionaire owner in.
Hmm, ok.
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 02, 2021, 04:35:55 PM
Have to laugh at the hypocrisy of Liverpool fans trying to have a go at man utd fans for protesting against their owners. Did Liverpool fans not protest against their owners in the past?
Of the 6 teams that were due to set up the super league it looked like Liverpool fans were least vocal against it. Most of the fans seemed to accept the apology, shrug their shoulders and stick their flags back up.
What a pile of shit.
The Liverpool fan base reacted furiously against the Super League. And it's the third or fourth time they've forced FSG into a reversal.
That many wonder what the alternative would be, realistically, if FSG were to sell is a separate issue. They've done a lot of good for the club despite the f**k-ups. Should they be agitating for a Russian oligarch or petrostate or Chinese state operation to take over?
Quote from: BennyCake on May 02, 2021, 04:42:13 PM
We want a billionaire owner out, and a different billionaire owner in.
Hmm, ok.
And let's fire flares at the commentary box and break a cameraman's equipment to force home what we want!
Quote from: laoislad on May 02, 2021, 04:13:39 PM
Quote from: GJL on May 02, 2021, 03:24:54 PM
Quote from: laoislad on May 02, 2021, 03:18:29 PM
Quote from: GJL on May 02, 2021, 03:17:19 PM
Fair play to all of them. Anything that puts pressure on the leaches.
What does firing flares at the commentary box achieve?
Public's awareness and massive press coverage. Builds pressure.
Does throwing camera equipment around help also?
https://twitter.com/razza6999/status/1388852110566076420?s=21
Definitely not. That lad is a p***k. There will always be a few.
But do you not understand the legitimacy of the protest?
Quote from: J70 on May 02, 2021, 04:44:23 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 02, 2021, 04:35:55 PM
Have to laugh at the hypocrisy of Liverpool fans trying to have a go at man utd fans for protesting against their owners. Did Liverpool fans not protest against their owners in the past?
Of the 6 teams that were due to set up the super league it looked like Liverpool fans were least vocal against it. Most of the fans seemed to accept the apology, shrug their shoulders and stick their flags back up.
What a pile of shit.
The Liverpool fan base reacted furiously against the Super League. And it's the third or fourth time they've forced FSG into a reversal.
That many wonder what the alternative would be, realistically, if FSG were to sell is a separate issue. They've done a lot of good for the club despite the f**k-ups. Should they be agitating for a Russian oligarch or petrostate or Chinese state operation to take over?
Liverpool fans reacted furiously 🤔 when? Few posts on twitter. Was their any organised supporter gathering to show owners how they felt? They have more gathering for the arrival of a bus ffs
Quote from: laoislad on May 02, 2021, 04:48:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 02, 2021, 04:42:13 PM
We want a billionaire owner out, and a different billionaire owner in.
Hmm, ok.
And let's fire flares at the commentary box and break a cameraman's equipment to force home what we want!
Yes, let's.
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 02, 2021, 04:59:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 02, 2021, 04:44:23 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 02, 2021, 04:35:55 PM
Have to laugh at the hypocrisy of Liverpool fans trying to have a go at man utd fans for protesting against their owners. Did Liverpool fans not protest against their owners in the past?
Of the 6 teams that were due to set up the super league it looked like Liverpool fans were least vocal against it. Most of the fans seemed to accept the apology, shrug their shoulders and stick their flags back up.
What a pile of shit.
The Liverpool fan base reacted furiously against the Super League. And it's the third or fourth time they've forced FSG into a reversal.
That many wonder what the alternative would be, realistically, if FSG were to sell is a separate issue. They've done a lot of good for the club despite the f**k-ups. Should they be agitating for a Russian oligarch or petrostate or Chinese state operation to take over?
Liverpool fans reacted furiously 🤔 when? Few posts on twitter. Was their any organised supporter gathering to show owners how they felt? They have more gathering for the arrival of a bus ffs
Fan groups came out against it and removed the banners from the Kop (Klopp was not happy). There were Liverpool fans protesting at Anfield and at the Leeds game. The club backed down the following day due to the backlash. There was zero support among fan groups. Had the club not backed down, there would absolutely have been organized protests.
No doubt then you would have been "outraged" over THAT too.
Quote from: J70 on May 02, 2021, 05:23:56 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 02, 2021, 04:59:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 02, 2021, 04:44:23 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 02, 2021, 04:35:55 PM
Have to laugh at the hypocrisy of Liverpool fans trying to have a go at man utd fans for protesting against their owners. Did Liverpool fans not protest against their owners in the past?
Of the 6 teams that were due to set up the super league it looked like Liverpool fans were least vocal against it. Most of the fans seemed to accept the apology, shrug their shoulders and stick their flags back up.
What a pile of shit.
The Liverpool fan base reacted furiously against the Super League. And it's the third or fourth time they've forced FSG into a reversal.
That many wonder what the alternative would be, realistically, if FSG were to sell is a separate issue. They've done a lot of good for the club despite the f**k-ups. Should they be agitating for a Russian oligarch or petrostate or Chinese state operation to take over?
Liverpool fans reacted furiously 🤔 when? Few posts on twitter. Was their any organised supporter gathering to show owners how they felt? They have more gathering for the arrival of a bus ffs
Fan groups came out against it and removed the banners from the Kop (Klopp was not happy). There were Liverpool fans protesting at Anfield and at the Leeds game. The club backed down the following day due to the backlash. There was zero support among fan groups. Had the club not backed down, there would absolutely have been organized protests.
No doubt then you would have been "outraged" over THAT too.
Let's be honest, if it was Liverpool fans who acted like some United fans today he would be on here with outrage over it.
Don't take him seriously, he doesn't ever comment on the Everton thread unless they win, which is rare enough these days.
I wouldn't be outraged, I'd be here applauding it. If you had anything about you, you would do the same...
Game off because of the riots at Old Trafford.
Quote from: laoislad on May 02, 2021, 05:36:50 PM
Game off because of the riots at Old Trafford.
"Riots"
😂😂
Quote from: laoislad on May 02, 2021, 05:28:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 02, 2021, 05:23:56 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 02, 2021, 04:59:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 02, 2021, 04:44:23 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 02, 2021, 04:35:55 PM
Have to laugh at the hypocrisy of Liverpool fans trying to have a go at man utd fans for protesting against their owners. Did Liverpool fans not protest against their owners in the past?
Of the 6 teams that were due to set up the super league it looked like Liverpool fans were least vocal against it. Most of the fans seemed to accept the apology, shrug their shoulders and stick their flags back up.
What a pile of shit.
The Liverpool fan base reacted furiously against the Super League. And it's the third or fourth time they've forced FSG into a reversal.
That many wonder what the alternative would be, realistically, if FSG were to sell is a separate issue. They've done a lot of good for the club despite the f**k-ups. Should they be agitating for a Russian oligarch or petrostate or Chinese state operation to take over?
Liverpool fans reacted furiously 🤔 when? Few posts on twitter. Was their any organised supporter gathering to show owners how they felt? They have more gathering for the arrival of a bus ffs
Fan groups came out against it and removed the banners from the Kop (Klopp was not happy). There were Liverpool fans protesting at Anfield and at the Leeds game. The club backed down the following day due to the backlash. There was zero support among fan groups. Had the club not backed down, there would absolutely have been organized protests.
No doubt then you would have been "outraged" over THAT too.
Let's be honest, if it was Liverpool fans who acted like some United fans today he would be on here with outrage over it.
Don't take him seriously, he doesn't ever comment on the Everton thread unless they win, which is rare enough these days.
so instead you're on with outrage cos it's utd fans. 🙄
Let's applaud the protests lads, sure it doesn't matter if someone almost loses an eye....
https://mobile.twitter.com/ManUtdReports/status/1388888066933370882
Quote from: laoislad on May 02, 2021, 05:57:31 PM
Let's applaud the protests lads, sure it doesn't matter if someone almost loses an eye....
https://mobile.twitter.com/ManUtdReports/status/1388888066933370882
as Jamie carragher says there's always some who take it to far. But Liverpool fans already know that I'm sure. At a time when football fans should be together, Liverpool fans are trying to score points on utd fans.
Jamie carragher, Roy Keane and Gary neville all said they understand fans protests and frustrations but laoislad is outraged cos he doesn't like man utd.
Has anyone seen any other fan base criticise utd fans protests today or is it just Liverpool fans?
Or....has anyone used the Utd protests to have a go at Liverpool fans?!?! That would be well fcuked up 😂😂😂
Sheedy back with the Liverpool bashing ;D as predictable as ever, just can't help himself. Jesus though, quoting Carragher,Neville and Roy Keane as your defence of it ::) give me a break.
If anyone really thinks I'm outraged they really don't know me all that well..!
I think it's hilarious people are trying to pass this off as a peaceful protest though.
There was way more than just a few idiots.
The protest was originally probably a good idea,but it turned nasty pretty quickly. Anyone who thinks what happened today was the right way to go about things or applaud them as one gobshite said,is an idiot as far as I'm concerned.
And I'd say the same f**king thing if it was Liverpool fans today.
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 02, 2021, 06:20:41 PM
Quote from: laoislad on May 02, 2021, 05:57:31 PM
Let's applaud the protests lads, sure it doesn't matter if someone almost loses an eye....
https://mobile.twitter.com/ManUtdReports/status/1388888066933370882
as Jamie carragher says there's always some who take it to far. But Liverpool fans already know that I'm sure. At a time when football fans should be together, Liverpool fans are trying to score points on utd fans.
Jamie carragher, Roy Keane and Gary neville all said they understand fans protests and frustrations but laoislad SHEEDY is outraged cos he doesn't like man utd Liverpool.
Has anyone seen any other fan base criticise utd fans protests today or is it just Liverpool fans?
Was there a team other than Liverpool due to play United today?
I applaud that there was a big protest today.
I applaud that there was presence at Utd hotel.
I applaud that fans got into the ground
I applaud that they got the game called off.
Do I applaud some of the things that occurred, no definitely not. Was it a peaceful protest with trouble around the edges? Or a rabble looking for trouble? I know what I think and I'm happy enough with my opinion
Quote from: Boycey on May 02, 2021, 06:54:02 PM
I applaud that there was a big protest today.
I applaud that there was presence at Utd hotel.
I applaud that fans got into the ground
I applaud that they got the game called off.
Do I applaud some of the things that occurred, no definitely not. Was it a peaceful protest with trouble around the edges? Or a rabble looking for trouble? I know what I think and I'm happy enough with my opinion
Thankfully no attempted murder of the opposing team and bus driver by bricking the windows as has become the norm down the M62....
You chase the point scoring StPats I'm not that arsed...
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/d/c/dc41cde21a35bb2e83437801b2abff8f9cf15823.jpeg)
Be some shooting match if this happened in American sports, fans turning up locked and loaded, security the same, mayhem!
Hi, soccer is a corrupt pile of f**king shite with more than their fair share of moron fans, a good few on display today, f**k them.
As for Gary Neville, while he is capable of delivering a few salient points at times he really needs to drop the expert in the room routine, he's not the conscience of football, well mainly because it has no conscience
Más adelante!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5_yG9qFwv8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtzhvJh9NRY
Quote from: GJL on May 02, 2021, 05:48:21 PM
Quote from: laoislad on May 02, 2021, 05:36:50 PM
Game off because of the riots at Old Trafford.
"Riots"
😂😂
What would you call it?
Early this afternoon, groups of protestors began to gather at Old Trafford and separately at The Lowry Hotel, Salford where the United players were staying. By late afternoon around 200 protestors had gathered outside the Lowry and over 1,000 at Old Trafford.
Officers continued to closely monitor the situation, engaging with those present but as the groups grew in size; it became clear that many of those present were not intending to exercise their right to peaceful protest. Flares were let off and bottles thrown at officers.
Protestors outside Old Trafford became especially aggressive and antagonistic towards police before a group of about 100 forced entry to the ground with some United staff having to lock themselves in rooms.Those in the stadium were evicted by officers but outside on the forecourt hostility grew with bottles and barriers being thrown at officers and horses. Two officers have been injured with one officer being attacked with a bottle and sustaining a significant slash wound to his face, requiring emergency hospital treatment.
With the situation increasing in hostility, additional officers had to be deployed and officers had to be drawn in from neighbouring forces to assist Greater Manchester officers.
Following discussion with The Premier League, Trafford Council and the clubs, a joint decision was made to postpone the match for safety reasons.
GMP Assistant Chief Constable Russ Jackson said: "
The behaviour displayed today by those at both Old Trafford and The Lowry Hotel was reckless and dangerous.
"We understand the passion many supporters have for their team and we fully respect the right for peaceful protest. Plans were in place to ensure this could happen safely,
but it soon became clear that many present had no intention of doing so peacefully.
"
The actions of those today required us to take officers from front line policing and call in support from neighbouring forces to prevent the disorder getting worse. At different points, bottles and barriers were thrown, officers assaulted and people scaled the stadium structure creating risk for themselves and officers
Quote from: laoislad on May 02, 2021, 09:12:37 PM
Quote from: GJL on May 02, 2021, 05:48:21 PM
Quote from: laoislad on May 02, 2021, 05:36:50 PM
Game off because of the riots at Old Trafford.
"Riots"
😂😂
What would you call it?
Early this afternoon, groups of protestors began to gather at Old Trafford and separately at The Lowry Hotel, Salford where the United players were staying. By late afternoon around 200 protestors had gathered outside the Lowry and over 1,000 at Old Trafford.
Officers continued to closely monitor the situation, engaging with those present but as the groups grew in size; it became clear that many of those present were not intending to exercise their right to peaceful protest. Flares were let off and bottles thrown at officers.
Protestors outside Old Trafford became especially aggressive and antagonistic towards police before a group of about 100 forced entry to the ground with some United staff having to lock themselves in rooms.
Those in the stadium were evicted by officers but outside on the forecourt hostility grew with bottles and barriers being thrown at officers and horses. Two officers have been injured with one officer being attacked with a bottle and sustaining a significant slash wound to his face, requiring emergency hospital treatment.
With the situation increasing in hostility, additional officers had to be deployed and officers had to be drawn in from neighbouring forces to assist Greater Manchester officers.
Following discussion with The Premier League, Trafford Council and the clubs, a joint decision was made to postpone the match for safety reasons.
GMP Assistant Chief Constable Russ Jackson said: "The behaviour displayed today by those at both Old Trafford and The Lowry Hotel was reckless and dangerous.
"We understand the passion many supporters have for their team and we fully respect the right for peaceful protest. Plans were in place to ensure this could happen safely, but it soon became clear that many present had no intention of doing so peacefully.
"The actions of those today required us to take officers from front line policing and call in support from neighbouring forces to prevent the disorder getting worse. At different points, bottles and barriers were thrown, officers assaulted and people scaled the stadium structure creating risk for themselves and officers
Not a peep out of you when LFC fans bricked the windows of the Real Madrid coach. Funny that.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 02, 2021, 06:40:16 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 02, 2021, 06:20:41 PM
Quote from: laoislad on May 02, 2021, 05:57:31 PM
Let's applaud the protests lads, sure it doesn't matter if someone almost loses an eye....
https://mobile.twitter.com/ManUtdReports/status/1388888066933370882
as Jamie carragher says there's always some who take it to far. But Liverpool fans already know that I'm sure. At a time when football fans should be together, Liverpool fans are trying to score points on utd fans.
Jamie carragher, Roy Keane and Gary neville all said they understand fans protests and frustrations but laoislad SHEEDY is outraged cos he doesn't like man utd Liverpool.
Has anyone seen any other fan base criticise utd fans protests today or is it just Liverpool fans?
Was there a team other than Liverpool due to play United today?
no. Is that the right answer to a really stupid question?
Listening to some of the media outpourings... utter bollocks, no-one died, drop the sombre faux outrage, the uber staunch Neville etc had their spout and riled people up, as a consequence they took to the stadium today, the soccer fraternity needs to suck it up
Ah it's grand lads nobody died so we're golden!
FFS! It's f**king bananas a load of stupid c***ts want one billionaire owner out to get another in and expect things will be done differently. As if they haven't spent as much money as anyone else on managers or players the last 10 years!
Typical United pretend they're the best fans in the world when they're winning then throw the toys out of the pram when they realise they aren't special and are just another club.
Horrible outfit.
Quote from: screenexile on May 03, 2021, 06:14:22 AM
Ah it's grand lads nobody died so we're golden!
FFS! It's f**king bananas a load of stupid c***ts want one billionaire owner out to get another in and expect things will be done differently. As if they haven't spent as much money as anyone else on managers or players the last 10 years!
Typical United pretend they're the best fans in the world when they're winning then throw the toys out of the pram when they realise they aren't special and are just another club.
Horrible outfit.
Before the Glazers buyout United didnt need a billionaire owner. They create enough finance on their own back to compete at the highest level. If you had a notion what you were talking about you might see that. The Glazers bought the club with leveraged debt and havent paid it off. Theyve taken a billion out of the club in 16 years. They dont engage with fans. The fans have been demonstrating for 16 years. Some scenes yesterday were unacceptable. But the majority of fans were peaceful. Glazers have no interest in football. Utd fans dont claim to be special and it doesnt mean more than other clubs
Quote from: snoopdog on May 03, 2021, 09:46:34 AM
Quote from: screenexile on May 03, 2021, 06:14:22 AM
Ah it's grand lads nobody died so we're golden!
FFS! It's f**king bananas a load of stupid c***ts want one billionaire owner out to get another in and expect things will be done differently. As if they haven't spent as much money as anyone else on managers or players the last 10 years!
Typical United pretend they're the best fans in the world when they're winning then throw the toys out of the pram when they realise they aren't special and are just another club.
Horrible outfit.
Before the Glazers buyout United didnt need a billionaire owner. They create enough finance on their own back to compete at the highest level. If you had a notion what you were talking about you might see that. The Glazers bought the club with leveraged debt and havent paid it off. Theyve taken a billion out of the club in 16 years. They dont engage with fans. The fans have been demonstrating for 16 years. Some scenes yesterday were unacceptable. But the majority of fans were peaceful. Glazers have no interest in football. Utd fans dont claim to be special and it doesnt mean more than other clubs
Tough f**king shit, did the Galzers put the club on the stock exchange, no, have they done anything illegal, no, does the club or sport governing body give one f**k about the supporters, no. Then again why should they, look at what the so called "supporters" (neanderthals) did yesterday.
MU is the same as every other club in the PL, a sports entertainment franchise. The Glazers own MU fair and square, its their perogative to f**k about with the finances as they see fit, they're 3000 miles away getting the balls sucked aff them while this cash cow continues to print money for them, they have no obligation to sell, for people to spout that, esp Baroness Neville herself is just absolutely pafetic.
Quote from: tiempo on May 03, 2021, 09:55:41 AM
Quote from: snoopdog on May 03, 2021, 09:46:34 AM
Quote from: screenexile on May 03, 2021, 06:14:22 AM
Ah it's grand lads nobody died so we're golden!
FFS! It's f**king bananas a load of stupid c***ts want one billionaire owner out to get another in and expect things will be done differently. As if they haven't spent as much money as anyone else on managers or players the last 10 years!
Typical United pretend they're the best fans in the world when they're winning then throw the toys out of the pram when they realise they aren't special and are just another club.
Horrible outfit.
Before the Glazers buyout United didnt need a billionaire owner. They create enough finance on their own back to compete at the highest level. If you had a notion what you were talking about you might see that. The Glazers bought the club with leveraged debt and havent paid it off. Theyve taken a billion out of the club in 16 years. They dont engage with fans. The fans have been demonstrating for 16 years. Some scenes yesterday were unacceptable. But the majority of fans were peaceful. Glazers have no interest in football. Utd fans dont claim to be special and it doesnt mean more than other clubs
Tough f**king shit, did the Galzers put the club on the stock exchange, no, have they done anything illegal, no, does the club or sport governing body give one f**k about the supporters, no. Then again why should they, look at what the so called "supporters" (neanderthals) did yesterday.
MU is the same as every other club in the PL, a sports entertainment franchise. The Glazers own MU fair and square, its their perogative to f**k about with the finances as they see fit, they're 3000 miles away getting the balls sucked aff them while this cash cow continues to print money for them, they have no obligation to sell, for people to spout that, esp Baroness Neville herself is just absolutely pafetic.
;D ;D ;D
A lot of anger here...
Anyways when will the game be played?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2021, 10:20:17 AM
A lot of anger here...
Anyways when will the game be played?
Who cares?
Liverpool fans are understandably pissed off as they desperately need the points but that is of no concern to Utd or their fans.
Quote from: GJL on May 03, 2021, 10:26:26 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2021, 10:20:17 AM
A lot of anger here...
Anyways when will the game be played?
Who cares?
Liverpool fans are understandably pissed off as they desperately need the points but that is of no concern to Utd or their fans.
It will be of concern if it is to be played a day or two before the Europa League Final?
Quote from: GJL on May 03, 2021, 10:26:26 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2021, 10:20:17 AM
A lot of anger here...
Anyways when will the game be played?
Who cares?
Liverpool fans are understandably pissed off as they desperately need the points but that is of no concern to Utd or their fans.
Huh? ???
What difference does it make to Liverpool if the game is played today or in three weeks?
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2021, 11:53:50 AM
Quote from: GJL on May 03, 2021, 10:26:26 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2021, 10:20:17 AM
A lot of anger here...
Anyways when will the game be played?
Who cares?
Liverpool fans are understandably pissed off as they desperately need the points but that is of no concern to Utd or their fans.
Huh? ???
What difference does it make to Liverpool if the game is played today or in three weeks?
None at all. But the frustrations of a few were evident on here yesterday when it became apparent the game was not going ahead. I couldn't care less if it is ever played.
Quote from: GJL on May 03, 2021, 11:58:14 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2021, 11:53:50 AM
Quote from: GJL on May 03, 2021, 10:26:26 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2021, 10:20:17 AM
A lot of anger here...
Anyways when will the game be played?
Who cares?
Liverpool fans are understandably pissed off as they desperately need the points but that is of no concern to Utd or their fans.
Huh? ???
What difference does it make to Liverpool if the game is played today or in three weeks?
None at all. But the frustrations of a few were evident on here yesterday when it became apparent the game was not going ahead. I couldn't care less if it is ever played.
The gobshite cant even WUM well
Quote from: GJL on May 03, 2021, 11:58:14 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2021, 11:53:50 AM
Quote from: GJL on May 03, 2021, 10:26:26 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2021, 10:20:17 AM
A lot of anger here...
Anyways when will the game be played?
Who cares?
Liverpool fans are understandably pissed off as they desperately need the points but that is of no concern to Utd or their fans.
Huh? ???
What difference does it make to Liverpool if the game is played today or in three weeks?
None at all. But the frustrations of a few were evident on here yesterday when it became apparent the game was not going ahead. I couldn't care less if it is ever played.
Surely if it couldn't be played Liverpool would have to be awarded the points?
Utd playing mid week and weekends to the end of the season! Could it not have been fixed for today after yesterday's abandonment?
I think it's unfair on Liverpool and Utd should be deducted 3 points and Liverpool awarded 3 points and fined heavily.
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on May 03, 2021, 11:59:09 AM
Quote from: GJL on May 03, 2021, 11:58:14 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2021, 11:53:50 AM
Quote from: GJL on May 03, 2021, 10:26:26 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2021, 10:20:17 AM
A lot of anger here...
Anyways when will the game be played?
Who cares?
Liverpool fans are understandably pissed off as they desperately need the points but that is of no concern to Utd or their fans.
Huh? ???
What difference does it make to Liverpool if the game is played today or in three weeks?
None at all. But the frustrations of a few were evident on here yesterday when it became apparent the game was not going ahead. I couldn't care less if it is ever played.
The gobshite cant even WUM well
What's he even blabbering on about 🤷
Kinda suits Liverpool that the game was postponed. The game will be pushed out until all the games are done bar this one given Uniteds schedule unless they move one of the LFC games around. This game was absolutely the hardest game on paper therefore if it is pushed out to the last game the question of CL qualification could be much clearer. Imagine the scenario of it being a one off game at the end of the season whereby LFC could qualify for the CL for next season? Sky would cream themselves!!!
Quote from: snoopdog on May 03, 2021, 09:46:34 AM
Before the Glazers buyout United didnt need a billionaire owner. They create enough finance on their own back to compete at the highest level. If you had a notion what you were talking about you might see that.
Remarkable how that is lost on some. A little bit of research goes a long way
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 03, 2021, 01:13:20 PM
Kinda suits Liverpool that the game was postponed. The game will be pushed out until all the games are done bar this one given Uniteds schedule unless they move one of the LFC games around. This game was absolutely the hardest game on paper therefore if it is pushed out to the last game the question of CL qualification could be much clearer. Imagine the scenario of it being a one off game at the end of the season whereby LFC could qualify for the CL for next season? Sky would cream themselves!!!
Playing it yesterday might have suited Liverpool better. Hadn't played for a week against a United side that played Thursday and had only made one outfield change (Greenwood for Cavani)
It's reported to get rescheduled for May 15th, 16th now with Liverpool v West Brom brought forward to May 12th so if that happens both will go into that rescheduled game having played midweek.
65 minutes Leicester 0 Geordies 3 !!
Quote from: Dire Ear on May 07, 2021, 09:25:26 PM
65 minutes Leicester 0 Geordies 3 !!
Should've been more
It is 1-4 now. Leicester could be about to lose out on the champions league again.
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 07, 2021, 09:47:09 PM
It is 1-4 now. Leicester could be about to lose out on the champions league again.
Their final 3 games are against Man United,Chelsea and Spurs..
Leicester could throw away the Top 4 for the second season. Whatever it is about Brendan Rodgers his teams crumble when the pressure is on, same at Liverpool
Now 4-2 and Leicester missed a sitter
Imagine genuinely supporting Newcastle and being 4-0 after 73 minutes and sitting yourself for a win !!
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 07, 2021, 09:48:43 PM
Leicester could throw away the Top 4 for the second season. Whatever it is about Brendan Rodgers his teams crumble when the pressure is on, same at Liverpool
He lost the plot tonight when Evans got injured in the warm up. The schedule the Premier league has given Man United could work in Leicesters favour. Under normal circumstances I'd expect United to beat Leicester in Old Trafford but that's looking less likely now as United will probably play a 2nd string side in that match.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on May 07, 2021, 10:11:52 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 07, 2021, 09:48:43 PM
Leicester could throw away the Top 4 for the second season. Whatever it is about Brendan Rodgers his teams crumble when the pressure is on, same at Liverpool
He lost the plot tonight when Evans got injured in the warm up. The schedule the Premier league has given Man United could work in Leicesters favour. Under normal circumstances I'd expect United to beat Leicester in Old Trafford but that's looking less likely now as United will probably play a 2nd string side in that match.
Leicester have a FA Cup final 4 days after that Utd match.
I'd of thought Sunday and Tuesday may be United's 2 strongest teams?
Quote from: Boycey on May 07, 2021, 10:20:29 PM
I'd of thought Sunday and Tuesday may be United's 2 strongest teams?
Not when pool is the 3rd game
Quote from: Boycey on May 07, 2021, 10:20:29 PM
I'd of thought Sunday and Tuesday may be United's 2 strongest teams?
Sunday, Thursday I'd expect Ole to pick his strongest team.
The only game that will shape Liverpool's hope of top four is how Chelsea go tomorrow v City, if Liverpool can win against their old feeder club and Chelsea lose then they have a chance, providing they win at fortress Anfield
Loads of different scenarios but I'd be all for getting the points required ASAP. Go strong against Villa, Leicester get 4 points job done. Fiddle about with shadow team lose to Leicester maybe and with the best will in the world even our strongest team can get beaten by Liverpool. Potentially Utd mightn't need any more points to be top 4 but pragmatist I am I'd rather get the points rather than worry who we get them against....
Anyway I see the protest plans forming so maybe there be no game Thurs anyway
Quote from: laoislad on May 07, 2021, 09:48:33 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 07, 2021, 09:47:09 PM
It is 1-4 now. Leicester could be about to lose out on the champions league again.
Their final 3 games are against Man United,Chelsea and Spurs..
Tight finish, they'd have expected 3 points tonight
Quote from: Boycey on May 07, 2021, 11:15:58 PM
Loads of different scenarios but I'd be all for getting the points required ASAP. Go strong against Villa, Leicester get 4 points job done. Fiddle about with shadow team lose to Leicester maybe and with the best will in the world even our strongest team can get beaten by Liverpool. Potentially Utd mightn't need any more points to be top 4 but pragmatist I am I'd rather get the points rather than worry who we get them against....
Anyway I see the protest plans forming so maybe there be no game Thurs anyway
Not sure if you jest, but another protest couldn't help the team??
Some finish to Championship season, Derby currently staying up but I'd not bet my house on it staying that way
Quote from: Boycey on May 08, 2021, 02:22:21 PM
Some finish to Championship season, Derby currently staying up but I'd not bet my house on it staying that way
Sickener for Rotherham. Looked like they'd done enough. The Derby Wednesday game ended up being 12 minutes behind the Rotherham game. Changed the game theory dynamics involved.
Quote from: Boycey on May 08, 2021, 02:22:21 PM
Some finish to Championship season, Derby currently staying up but I'd not bet my house on it staying that way
Watched the last 4 mins...what was that debit at kicking the ball out from the free kick, it's not rugby?!
Quote from: gawa316 on May 08, 2021, 02:43:32 PM
Quote from: Boycey on May 08, 2021, 02:22:21 PM
Some finish to Championship season, Derby currently staying up but I'd not bet my house on it staying that way
Watched the last 4 mins...what was that debit at kicking the ball out from the free kick, it's not rugby?!
hardly rocket science, it was the last 30 seconds of the game, a goal for sheff wed would've put derby down. He was killing out time.
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 08, 2021, 02:57:40 PM
Quote from: gawa316 on May 08, 2021, 02:43:32 PM
Quote from: Boycey on May 08, 2021, 02:22:21 PM
Some finish to Championship season, Derby currently staying up but I'd not bet my house on it staying that way
Watched the last 4 mins...what was that debit at kicking the ball out from the free kick, it's not rugby?!
hardly rocket science, it was the last 30 seconds of the game, a goal for sheff wed would've put derby down. He was killing out time.
So you don't think they would wasted more time by actually keeping the ball and playing towards the corner...like every other team in the history of football has done when trying to kill time?
Leeds United 3 Tottenham Hotspur 1
Quote from: gawa316 on May 08, 2021, 03:02:52 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 08, 2021, 02:57:40 PM
Quote from: gawa316 on May 08, 2021, 02:43:32 PM
Quote from: Boycey on May 08, 2021, 02:22:21 PM
Some finish to Championship season, Derby currently staying up but I'd not bet my house on it staying that way
Watched the last 4 mins...what was that debit at kicking the ball out from the free kick, it's not rugby?!
hardly rocket science, it was the last 30 seconds of the game, a goal for sheff wed would've put derby down. He was killing out time.
So you don't think they would wasted more time by actually keeping the ball and playing towards the corner...like every other team in the history of football has done when trying to kill time?
It was slightly unusual looking but in fairness to them you're probably set up better to defend from it than when 2 players attempt to shield it in corner, eventually foul the ball and are then out of position
Quote from: Boycey on May 08, 2021, 03:23:07 PM
Quote from: gawa316 on May 08, 2021, 03:02:52 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 08, 2021, 02:57:40 PM
Quote from: gawa316 on May 08, 2021, 02:43:32 PM
Quote from: Boycey on May 08, 2021, 02:22:21 PM
Some finish to Championship season, Derby currently staying up but I'd not bet my house on it staying that way
Watched the last 4 mins...what was that debit at kicking the ball out from the free kick, it's not rugby?!
hardly rocket science, it was the last 30 seconds of the game, a goal for sheff wed would've put derby down. He was killing out time.
So you don't think they would wasted more time by actually keeping the ball and playing towards the corner...like every other team in the history of football has done when trying to kill time?
It was slightly unusual looking but in fairness to them you're probably set up better to defend from it than when 2 players attempt to shield it in corner, eventually foul the ball and are then out of position
It's usually the team without the ball that fouls in the instance though.
They kicked the ball out and gave it straight back to Sheff Wed, that can not be the best option.
Aguero the latest player trying to score a chipped penalty and made to look stupid.
And pay the price....
United could win this yet!
Quote from: Dire Ear on May 08, 2021, 07:22:18 PM
And pay the price....
The match turning point. That win should give Chelsea and Tuchel more encouragment for the upcoming Champions league final.
Sterling still has that bad habit for diving and he was lucky he didn't get sent off 1st half.
Quote from: BennyCake on May 08, 2021, 07:35:45 PM
United could win this yet!
If only they won all those games that they didn't win it could have all be different eh....
Chelsea nailed on for top four
Liverpool should win remaining to clinch 4th spot from Leicester
Massive win for Everton. Expect the open top bus to bring will be operating tonight.
Both West Ham and Leicester bottling it for the 4th place spot leaving Liverpool to sneak it.
Quote from: Jim Bob on May 09, 2021, 06:14:21 PM
Both West Ham and Leicester bottling it for the 4th place spot leaving Liverpool to sneak it.
West Ham arent "bottling" anything. They are massively overachieving. Losing to Everton isn't a matter of bottle. I would argue that Everton had a stronger team than them.
They are not overachieving ......they are where they deserve to be at this time....
West Ham struggled with the favourites tag and couldn't cope when Everton parked the bus in second half. Would expect Liverpool to nail 4th spot now.
Quote from: Jim Bob on May 09, 2021, 06:50:13 PM
They are not overachieving ......they are where they deserve to be at this time....
Of course they deserve to be where they are. But I meant overachieving compared to what anyone would have expected pre season. Any claim that they are missing out on top 4 due to a lack of bottle is nonsense. Leicester on the other hand, given how comfortable they looked a few weeks ago, could well deserve that accusation if indeed they do miss out. Although surely they will face a weakened Man Utd side on Tuesday.
Quote from: shark on May 09, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on May 09, 2021, 06:50:13 PM
They are not overachieving ......they are where they deserve to be at this time....
Of course they deserve to be where they are. But I meant overachieving compared to what anyone would have expected pre season. Any claim that they are missing out on top 4 due to a lack of bottle is nonsense. Leicester on the other hand, given how comfortable they looked a few weeks ago, could well deserve that accusation if indeed they do miss out. Although surely they will face a weakened Man Utd side on Tuesday.
what side will leicester put out though with the cup final this saturday
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 09, 2021, 07:32:20 PM
Quote from: shark on May 09, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on May 09, 2021, 06:50:13 PM
They are not overachieving ......they are where they deserve to be at this time....
Of course they deserve to be where they are. But I meant overachieving compared to what anyone would have expected pre season. Any claim that they are missing out on top 4 due to a lack of bottle is nonsense. Leicester on the other hand, given how comfortable they looked a few weeks ago, could well deserve that accusation if indeed they do miss out. Although surely they will face a weakened Man Utd side on Tuesday.
what side will leicester put out though with the cup final this saturday
I think Leicester will prioritise champions league over FA Cup now. Has the final distracted their league run?
Quote from: macker15 on May 09, 2021, 07:38:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 09, 2021, 07:32:20 PM
Quote from: shark on May 09, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on May 09, 2021, 06:50:13 PM
They are not overachieving ......they are where they deserve to be at this time....
Of course they deserve to be where they are. But I meant overachieving compared to what anyone would have expected pre season. Any claim that they are missing out on top 4 due to a lack of bottle is nonsense. Leicester on the other hand, given how comfortable they looked a few weeks ago, could well deserve that accusation if indeed they do miss out. Although surely they will face a weakened Man Utd side on Tuesday.
what side will leicester put out though with the cup final this saturday
I think Leicester will prioritise champions league over FA Cup now. Has the final distracted their league run?
Really? In a FA cup final for the first time in over 50 years, and never won it, they're prioritising another match?
Quote from: BennyCake on May 09, 2021, 07:50:54 PM
Quote from: macker15 on May 09, 2021, 07:38:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 09, 2021, 07:32:20 PM
Quote from: shark on May 09, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on May 09, 2021, 06:50:13 PM
They are not overachieving ......they are where they deserve to be at this time....
Of course they deserve to be where they are. But I meant overachieving compared to what anyone would have expected pre season. Any claim that they are missing out on top 4 due to a lack of bottle is nonsense. Leicester on the other hand, given how comfortable they looked a few weeks ago, could well deserve that accusation if indeed they do miss out. Although surely they will face a weakened Man Utd side on Tuesday.
what side will leicester put out though with the cup final this saturday
I think Leicester will prioritise champions league over FA Cup now. Has the final distracted their league run?
Really? In a FA cup final for the first time in over 50 years, and never won it, they're prioritising another match?
Unfortunately champions league is seen more essential than FA cup by club owners.
Quote from: shark on May 09, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on May 09, 2021, 06:50:13 PM
They are not overachieving ......they are where they deserve to be at this time....
Of course they deserve to be where they are. But I meant overachieving compared to what anyone would have expected pre season. Any claim that they are missing out on top 4 due to a lack of bottle is nonsense. Leicester on the other hand, given how comfortable they looked a few weeks ago, could well deserve that accusation if indeed they do miss out. Although surely they will face a weakened Man Utd side on Tuesday.
Not overachieving then ......what all's what anyone else would have expected ....that's not relevant ...
Course they're bloody over-achieving, they are also where they deserve to be :)
Quote from: macker15 on May 09, 2021, 07:57:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 09, 2021, 07:50:54 PM
Quote from: macker15 on May 09, 2021, 07:38:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 09, 2021, 07:32:20 PM
Quote from: shark on May 09, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on May 09, 2021, 06:50:13 PM
They are not overachieving ......they are where they deserve to be at this time....
Of course they deserve to be where they are. But I meant overachieving compared to what anyone would have expected pre season. Any claim that they are missing out on top 4 due to a lack of bottle is nonsense. Leicester on the other hand, given how comfortable they looked a few weeks ago, could well deserve that accusation if indeed they do miss out. Although surely they will face a weakened Man Utd side on Tuesday.
what side will leicester put out though with the cup final this saturday
I think Leicester will prioritise champions league over FA Cup now. Has the final distracted their league run?
Really? In a FA cup final for the first time in over 50 years, and never won it, they're prioritising another match?
Unfortunately champions league is seen more essential than FA cup by club owners.
what about the fans? i'd say a large percentage of them would take the fa cup win especially as they've never won it before.
FA Cup should definitely be more important to Leicester players and fans...
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 09, 2021, 08:24:11 PM
Quote from: macker15 on May 09, 2021, 07:57:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 09, 2021, 07:50:54 PM
Quote from: macker15 on May 09, 2021, 07:38:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 09, 2021, 07:32:20 PM
Quote from: shark on May 09, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on May 09, 2021, 06:50:13 PM
They are not overachieving ......they are where they deserve to be at this time....
Of course they deserve to be where they are. But I meant overachieving compared to what anyone would have expected pre season. Any claim that they are missing out on top 4 due to a lack of bottle is nonsense. Leicester on the other hand, given how comfortable they looked a few weeks ago, could well deserve that accusation if indeed they do miss out. Although surely they will face a weakened Man Utd side on Tuesday.
what side will leicester put out though with the cup final this saturday
I think Leicester will prioritise champions league over FA Cup now. Has the final distracted their league run?
Really? In a FA cup final for the first time in over 50 years, and never won it, they're prioritising another match?
Unfortunately champions league is seen more essential than FA cup by club owners.
what about the fans? i'd say a large percentage of them would take the fa cup win especially as they've never won it before.
Wigan went down a couple of divisions after their FA cup win, but even though the team has suffered, their fans will always remember that win in 2013 as their greatest ever day. Had they stayed in the PL, they might have hung on another season or two, and that's all well and good, but they might not have come close to a major trophy like that again. So when the chance is there to win it, take it.
Fans don't talk about the day when their team finished 13th or 16th. It's about trophies.
Big Sams record of avoiding relegation over. West Brom should had kept Bilic on.
Off course Leicester fans would prefer FA Cup. A FA Cup would be impressive on Rodgers CV. I think this will be Leicester last chance of CL as 2/3 team will be sold off. Vardy is in decline.. Inenatcho has been very good.
Quote from: macker15 on May 09, 2021, 09:32:06 PM
Off course Leicester fans would prefer FA Cup. A FA Cup would be impressive on Rodgers CV. I think this will be Leicester last chance of CL as 2/3 team will be sold off. Vardy is in decline.. Inenatcho has been very good.
There is no reason why they can't do both. I'd be happy enough for them to get the 3 points against Utd if that helps them get top 4.
Quote from: macker15 on May 09, 2021, 07:38:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 09, 2021, 07:32:20 PM
Quote from: shark on May 09, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on May 09, 2021, 06:50:13 PM
They are not overachieving ......they are where they deserve to be at this time....
Of course they deserve to be where they are. But I meant overachieving compared to what anyone would have expected pre season. Any claim that they are missing out on top 4 due to a lack of bottle is nonsense. Leicester on the other hand, given how comfortable they looked a few weeks ago, could well deserve that accusation if indeed they do miss out. Although surely they will face a weakened Man Utd side on Tuesday.
what side will leicester put out though with the cup final this saturday
I think Leicester will prioritise champions league over FA Cup now. Has the final distracted their league run?
Are you joking??
Quote from: GJL on May 09, 2021, 09:39:09 PM
Quote from: macker15 on May 09, 2021, 09:32:06 PM
Off course Leicester fans would prefer FA Cup. A FA Cup would be impressive on Rodgers CV. I think this will be Leicester last chance of CL as 2/3 team will be sold off. Vardy is in decline.. Inenatcho has been very good.
There is no reason why they can't do both. I'd be happy enough for them to get the 3 points against Utd if that helps them get top 4.
You're an awful gobshite ;D
Quote from: laoislad on May 09, 2021, 09:47:25 PM
Quote from: GJL on May 09, 2021, 09:39:09 PM
Quote from: macker15 on May 09, 2021, 09:32:06 PM
Off course Leicester fans would prefer FA Cup. A FA Cup would be impressive on Rodgers CV. I think this will be Leicester last chance of CL as 2/3 team will be sold off. Vardy is in decline.. Inenatcho has been very good.
There is no reason why they can't do both. I'd be happy enough for them to get the 3 points against Utd if that helps them get top 4.
You're an awful gobshite ;D
Be good to see them qualify and I like Rogers. What is wrong with that?
;D
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 09, 2021, 09:45:14 PM
Quote from: macker15 on May 09, 2021, 07:38:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 09, 2021, 07:32:20 PM
Quote from: shark on May 09, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on May 09, 2021, 06:50:13 PM
They are not overachieving ......they are where they deserve to be at this time....
Of course they deserve to be where they are. But I meant overachieving compared to what anyone would have expected pre season. Any claim that they are missing out on top 4 due to a lack of bottle is nonsense. Leicester on the other hand, given how comfortable they looked a few weeks ago, could well deserve that accusation if indeed they do miss out. Although surely they will face a weakened Man Utd side on Tuesday.
what side will leicester put out though with the cup final this saturday
I think Leicester will prioritise champions league over FA Cup now. Has the final distracted their league run?
Are you joking??
Fans will the trophy but the money men will want champions league. Players should want medals instead of 4th place too.
Quote from: macker15 on May 10, 2021, 12:56:03 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 09, 2021, 09:45:14 PM
Quote from: macker15 on May 09, 2021, 07:38:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 09, 2021, 07:32:20 PM
Quote from: shark on May 09, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on May 09, 2021, 06:50:13 PM
They are not overachieving ......they are where they deserve to be at this time....
Of course they deserve to be where they are. But I meant overachieving compared to what anyone would have expected pre season. Any claim that they are missing out on top 4 due to a lack of bottle is nonsense. Leicester on the other hand, given how comfortable they looked a few weeks ago, could well deserve that accusation if indeed they do miss out. Although surely they will face a weakened Man Utd side on Tuesday.
what side will leicester put out though with the cup final this saturday
I think Leicester will prioritise champions league over FA Cup now. Has the final distracted their league run?
Are you joking??
Fans will the trophy but the money men will want champions league. Players should want medals instead of 4th place too.
FA Cup should earn champions League qualification rather than 4th place.
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 10, 2021, 07:30:02 AM
Quote from: macker15 on May 10, 2021, 12:56:03 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 09, 2021, 09:45:14 PM
Quote from: macker15 on May 09, 2021, 07:38:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 09, 2021, 07:32:20 PM
Quote from: shark on May 09, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on May 09, 2021, 06:50:13 PM
They are not overachieving ......they are where they deserve to be at this time....
Of course they deserve to be where they are. But I meant overachieving compared to what anyone would have expected pre season. Any claim that they are missing out on top 4 due to a lack of bottle is nonsense. Leicester on the other hand, given how comfortable they looked a few weeks ago, could well deserve that accusation if indeed they do miss out. Although surely they will face a weakened Man Utd side on Tuesday.
what side will leicester put out though with the cup final this saturday
I think Leicester will prioritise champions league over FA Cup now. Has the final distracted their league run?
Are you joking??
Fans will the trophy but the money men will want champions league. Players should want medals instead of 4th place too.
FA Cup should earn champions League qualification rather than 4th place.
No it should not.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57049608
Race for top four - how are the contenders shaping up?
Chelsea should have made it now, one win in 3 probably would do them. Especially if the one they win is Leicester.
If Leicester don't get all 3 against what will likely be Man Utd 3rds.....you have to fear for them. I think Liverpool will beat Utd the game after and probably win the remainder games against newly relegated WBA and on the beach for weeks Palace and Burnley.
West Ham will be sick, they could have made it....that Everton result was crushing.
Quote from: thebigfella on May 10, 2021, 12:59:12 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 10, 2021, 07:30:02 AM
Quote from: macker15 on May 10, 2021, 12:56:03 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 09, 2021, 09:45:14 PM
Quote from: macker15 on May 09, 2021, 07:38:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 09, 2021, 07:32:20 PM
Quote from: shark on May 09, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on May 09, 2021, 06:50:13 PM
They are not overachieving ......they are where they deserve to be at this time....
Of course they deserve to be where they are. But I meant overachieving compared to what anyone would have expected pre season. Any claim that they are missing out on top 4 due to a lack of bottle is nonsense. Leicester on the other hand, given how comfortable they looked a few weeks ago, could well deserve that accusation if indeed they do miss out. Although surely they will face a weakened Man Utd side on Tuesday.
what side will leicester put out though with the cup final this saturday
I think Leicester will prioritise champions league over FA Cup now. Has the final distracted their league run?
Are you joking??
Fans will the trophy but the money men will want champions league. Players should want medals instead of 4th place too.
FA Cup should earn champions League qualification rather than 4th place.
No it should not.
Yes it should. Teams fighting for the 4th place trophy is pathetic tbh. Would give real meaning to the FA Cup again too.
I'd agree with that too. The FA cup winner but not the runner up if the winner has already qualified. Then i'd give the CL place to 4th.
Over the last 30 years only 3 times has a non super league club won the FA Cup (Wigan, Portsmouth,Everton) that doesn't bode well for Leicester who have never won a FA Cup final from 4 attempts
That's a special type of crap team out for Ole now ;D ;D
Quote from: Dire Ear on May 11, 2021, 06:42:18 PM
That's a special type of crap team out for Ole now ;D ;D
Stays like this and it's a decent result. Still have the big guns to bring on if it's in the melting pot.
Quote from: Dire Ear on May 11, 2021, 06:42:18 PM
That's a special type of crap team out for Ole now ;D ;D
Bit like the Pool team v Villa
Quote from: Dire Ear on May 11, 2021, 06:42:18 PM
That's a special type of crap team out for Ole now ;D ;D
What time is it on?
Edi coming on to sort this
Quote from: Dire Ear on May 11, 2021, 07:22:12 PM
Quote from: laoislad on May 11, 2021, 07:02:36 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on May 11, 2021, 06:42:18 PM
That's a special type of crap team out for Ole now ;D ;D
What time is it on?
61 minutes gone, 1-1
Oh, didn't think it was on until 8. Not that I'd be watching but would have checked on scores now and then.
Toul yis
Chelsea under pressure now for 4th spot with Liverpool 2 games in hand.
What a result if arsenal come through. Brilliant for tomorrow's game
Chelsea had more than their fair share of luck against City. You can't always be lucky.
Chelsea more than one eye on the FA Cup final. The risk of making seven changes didn't pay off. The only goal was a strange one.
Game over. Big win for liverpool. Utd won't be thanking their fans now for backlog fixtures this week 🤣🤣🤣
Had €50 on Man Utd to lose both games this week €€€€€€
Should be a "Things that didnt happen thread"...
Tony ferron is back
Too easy.
VAR or their protests couldn't bail them out this time.
I called Liverpool for 4th place weeks again and delighted to be proven. Benny Rogers should have stuck it out with Celtic. They would have 10 in a row and better than finishing 5th with Leicester.
Quote from: macker15 on May 13, 2021, 11:42:20 PM
I called Liverpool for 4th place weeks again and delighted to be proven. Benny Rogers should have stuck it out with Celtic. They would have 10 in a row and better than finishing 5th with Leicester.
You also said Roma should hammer Utd...
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 14, 2021, 12:01:43 AM
Quote from: macker15 on May 13, 2021, 11:42:20 PM
I called Liverpool for 4th place weeks again and delighted to be proven. Benny Rogers should have stuck it out with Celtic. They would have 10 in a row and better than finishing 5th with Leicester.
You also said Roma should hammer Utd...
I can't be right all the time Tom 😉
So everything will depend on the Chelsea Leicester game as to which of these will drop out of top four, Liverpool have by far the easiest run it, West Brom are the worst team in the league, Burnely secured survival and on the beach and at home to Woy's team in his last game against the team he used to manage..
I think Chelsea will miss out if they lose to Leicester, they have the FA cup final, which is the bigger game? the FA cup final or the league match?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 14, 2021, 12:13:54 PM
So everything will depend on the Chelsea Leicester game as to which of these will drop out of top four, Liverpool have by far the easiest run it, West Brom are the worst team in the league, Burnely secured survival and on the beach and at home to Woy's team in his last game against the team he used to manage..
I think Chelsea will miss out if they lose to Leicester, they have the FA cup final, which is the bigger game? the FA cup final or the league match?
And one eye on the CL Final....It could be a stellar season for Chelsea or a complete disaster
If Liverpool win their 3 games, then barring some ridiculous scoreline in the Leicester v Spurs game (plus Chelsea beating Leicester) , Liverpool are in.
When Chelsea play Leicester neither team will yet know what is required of them (unless Liverpool have messed up already). I suspect that Leicester would be more than happy with a draw, and then take their chances that they can beat Spurs on final day. Or at least equal whatever result Chelsea get against Villa.
Could be a very interesting final day. West Ham will still be in with an outside chance if they can win their next two. Of course, 5 could qualify if Chelsea come 5th and win the Champions League.
Will 5th not qualify if City win?
No and 4th mightn't if Chelsea win...
Quote from: Boycey on May 14, 2021, 01:51:18 PM
No and 4th mightn't if Chelsea win...
I'm pretty sure top 4 qualifies now no matter what.
If Chelsea finish outside the top 4 and win the CL, then England gets five teams in it next year.
Had Arsenal made the Europa final and beat United, and Chelsea had finished outside the top 4 and won the CL, THEN 4th place would have lost the CL prize and the five spots would have went to top 3, Chelsea and Arsenal.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 14, 2021, 12:13:54 PM
So everything will depend on the Chelsea Leicester game as to which of these will drop out of top four, Liverpool have by far the easiest run it, West Brom are the worst team in the league, Burnely secured survival and on the beach and at home to Woy's team in his last game against the team he used to manage..
I think Chelsea will miss out if they lose to Leicester, they have the FA cup final, which is the bigger game? the FA cup final or the league match?
It's all set up for Leicester to repeat last season and miss out on top four.
The Rodgers gamble to play Evans didn't pay off. Great to hear real crowd noise.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 15, 2021, 05:49:14 PM
The Rodgers gamble to play Evans didn't pay off. Great to hear real crowd noise.
Was never going to play full 90mins, I'm surprised he started, it'll be same for Maguire possibly for Utd
Some drama at the end of that game. The save by Schmeichel that was as good as a goal then VAR disallowed a Chelsea goal. Well done Leicester FA Cup winners for the first time.
Rogers Joins Ferguson as a Cup winner in Scotland and England!
Some save from Schmiechel at the end.
Great drama at the end. Some goal to win it.
Ben Chilwell Leicester legend 🤣🤣🤣
Choundary and Fofana with the palestine flag out. Great to see.
Quote from: Nanderson on May 15, 2021, 07:17:43 PM
Choundary and Fofana with the palestine flag out. Great to see.
The cancel club will be out tonight.
Nice to see Leicester win.
Maybe Kasper Schmeichel will get a bit of credit now. Best keeper in the PL by a long shot this last 6/7 years.
What a difference fans make. Some goal by tielemans and equally as good a save by Schmeichel. Tielemans has been a fantastic signing for Leicester, great player.
Brendan Rodgers becomes the first British coach to win the FA Cup since Harry Redknapp in 2008, and the first British coach to win any major English trophy since Sir Kenny Dalglish in 2012.
Quote from: sid waddell on May 15, 2021, 08:06:38 PM
Brendan Rodgers becomes the first British coach to win the FA Cup since Harry Redknapp in 2008, and the first British coach to win any major English trophy since Sir Kenny Dalglish in 2012.
Is Brendan not Irish or northern Irish?
He was just Kenny then.
Quote from: BennyCake on May 15, 2021, 08:29:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 15, 2021, 08:06:38 PM
Brendan Rodgers becomes the first British coach to win the FA Cup since Harry Redknapp in 2008, and the first British coach to win any major English trophy since Sir Kenny Dalglish in 2012.
Is Brendan not Irish or northern Irish?
He was just Kenny then.
I'm only going by Brendan's own words, he described himself as a British coach in his post-match interview
Quote from: sid waddell on May 15, 2021, 08:33:35 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 15, 2021, 08:29:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 15, 2021, 08:06:38 PM
Brendan Rodgers becomes the first British coach to win the FA Cup since Harry Redknapp in 2008, and the first British coach to win any major English trophy since Sir Kenny Dalglish in 2012.
Is Brendan not Irish or northern Irish?
He was just Kenny then.
I'm only going by Brendan's own words, he described himself as a British coach in his post-match interview
Did he? If so I expect he will generate more headlines for this than for anything he has achieved on the pitch given the fact that he is a catholic who grew up a Celtic fan and then became manager of the club.
Won't go down well with Celtic fans but it's obviously how he sees himself.
Quote from: sid waddell on May 15, 2021, 08:06:38 PM
Brendan Rodgers becomes the first British coach to win the FA Cup since Harry Redknapp in 2008, and the first British coach to win any major English trophy since Sir Kenny Dalglish in 2012.
Sir Alex Ferguson won the PL in 2013.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 15, 2021, 08:58:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 15, 2021, 08:06:38 PM
Brendan Rodgers becomes the first British coach to win the FA Cup since Harry Redknapp in 2008, and the first British coach to win any major English trophy since Sir Kenny Dalglish in 2012.
Sir Alex Ferguson won the PL in 2013.
Didn't happen
Loved Brendan describing himself as a British coach. The wolf tone, SF supporting, more Irish than Irish c***ts will be spitting feathers.
Quote from: sid waddell on May 15, 2021, 08:06:38 PM
Brendan Rodgers becomes the first British coach to win the FA Cup since Harry Redknapp in 2008, and the first British coach to win any major English trophy since Sir Kenny Dalglish in 2012.
Actually the first manager from the wee 6 to lift the FACup since Terry Neill. who actually went on to contest major European honours....
Quote from: trailer on May 15, 2021, 09:03:28 PM
Loved Brendan describing himself as a British coach. The wolf tone, SF supporting, more Irish than Irish c***ts will be spitting feathers.
Huh? You're delighted an Irishman (well that's what I thought) has declared himself British on live tv just so that it pisses off your fellow Irishmen.
Similar to with Rory McIlroy, I don't take any offence if that's how he actually feels. It appears we will likely have 2 groupings now though. One group who will take offence at him declaring himself British and another who will take delight because he's now British and it pisses off the first group. Round in circles we go, it seems that every thread eventually gets hijacked by the same narrative.
Exactly. If he feels British who cares. It hardly diminishes what you feel yourself.
Quote from: yellowcard on May 15, 2021, 09:13:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 15, 2021, 09:03:28 PM
Loved Brendan describing himself as a British coach. The wolf tone, SF supporting, more Irish than Irish c***ts will be spitting feathers.
Huh? You're delighted an Irishman (well that's what I thought) has declared himself British on live tv just so that it pisses off your fellow Irishmen.
Similar to with Rory McIlroy, I don't take any offence if that's how he actually feels. It appears we will likely have 2 groupings now though. One group who will take offence at him declaring himself British and another who will take delight because he's now British and it pisses off the first group. Round in circles we go, it seems that every thread eventually gets hijacked by the same narrative.
I love that he is who is he is and he doesn't conform. There's a real w**ker element, more Irish than the Irish in NI, but Irishness is more nuanced than that.. it's sickening for the Wolf Tone loving SF. And I LOVE IT!!!
Quote from: trailer on May 15, 2021, 10:04:03 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on May 15, 2021, 09:13:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 15, 2021, 09:03:28 PM
Loved Brendan describing himself as a British coach. The wolf tone, SF supporting, more Irish than Irish c***ts will be spitting feathers.
Huh? You're delighted an Irishman (well that's what I thought) has declared himself British on live tv just so that it pisses off your fellow Irishmen.
Similar to with Rory McIlroy, I don't take any offence if that's how he actually feels. It appears we will likely have 2 groupings now though. One group who will take offence at him declaring himself British and another who will take delight because he's now British and it pisses off the first group. Round in circles we go, it seems that every thread eventually gets hijacked by the same narrative.
I love that he is who is he is and he doesn't conform. There's a real w**ker element, more Irish than the Irish in NI, but Irishness is more nuanced than that.. it's sickening for the Wolf Tone loving SF. And I LOVE IT!!!
Sure whatever keeps you happy.
It seems there's more Brits than Brendan Rodgers about, with all this 'Sir' talk.
If you were paid 10 million a year by an English football team. You too might be inclined to call yourself the nationality of the club that pays you.
I remember Conte and Klopp doing exactly the same.
Only seen highlights on the cup final this morning and as much as I dislike Chelsea that is a sickening way to lose.
Great goal to win it and a couple of great saves from Schmeichel added into the mix. IMO he's very underrated as a goalkeeper. Has been one of the best keepers in the league for some time now.
Quote from: BennyCake on May 16, 2021, 12:18:50 AM
It seems there's more Brits than Brendan Rodgers about, with all this 'Sir' talk.
You post in the English language (loosely, at least), so that must make you a Brit
At least according to your own logic
Quote from: sid waddell on May 15, 2021, 09:03:03 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 15, 2021, 08:58:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 15, 2021, 08:06:38 PM
Brendan Rodgers becomes the first British coach to win the FA Cup since Harry Redknapp in 2008, and the first British coach to win any major English trophy since Sir Kenny Dalglish in 2012.
Sir Alex Ferguson won the PL in 2013.
Didn't happen
Well then his signing RVP won it :D. I honestly don't think Utd would have won it without RVP that year.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 16, 2021, 09:27:57 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 15, 2021, 09:03:03 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 15, 2021, 08:58:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 15, 2021, 08:06:38 PM
Brendan Rodgers becomes the first British coach to win the FA Cup since Harry Redknapp in 2008, and the first British coach to win any major English trophy since Sir Kenny Dalglish in 2012.
Sir Alex Ferguson won the PL in 2013.
Didn't happen
Well then his signing RVP won it :D. I honestly don't think Utd would have won it without RVP that year.
Was a Cantona signing, and strange at the time moving to his rivals for so long.
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 09:25:55 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 16, 2021, 12:18:50 AM
It seems there's more Brits than Brendan Rodgers about, with all this 'Sir' talk.
You post in the English language (loosely, at least), so that must make you a Brit
At least according to your own logic
Well, that's me told. No way out of that one! ;D
Quote from: BennyCake on May 16, 2021, 09:48:02 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 09:25:55 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 16, 2021, 12:18:50 AM
It seems there's more Brits than Brendan Rodgers about, with all this 'Sir' talk.
You post in the English language (loosely, at least), so that must make you a Brit
At least according to your own logic
Well, that's me told. No way out of that one! ;D
Well it clearly is your logic
There is such a thing as the Irish language and it was formerly the primary spoken language on this island, no longer
Destruction of the mother tongue is one of the primary tools of colonisation
A lot of Irish people have always had a very sneering, dismissive attitude towards others they see as less "pure" in their Irishness, ie. the barbs "soup taker", "West Brit" etc.
Yet pretty much all Irish people speak English as their mother tongue, including myself - though I did attend a scoil lán Gaelach so I can also speak Irish
Surely the fact that we here are all writing through English would make us "impure" in our Irishness - "soup takers", "West Brits", at least according to you
Brendan Rodgers can legitimately be both British and Irish by the way
Same as Dublin's world snooker finalist Shaun Murphy can be both Irish and British
Identity is not a black and white thing, it is complex
Are Americans British too?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2021, 10:44:09 AM
Are Americans British too?
Are people from the Isle of Wight British?
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 10:55:40 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2021, 10:44:09 AM
Are Americans British too?
Are people from the Isle of Wight British?
According to you any country that speaks English can be British
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2021, 10:59:22 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 10:55:40 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2021, 10:44:09 AM
Are Americans British too?
Are people from the Isle of Wight British?
According to you any country that speaks English can be British
Not so
It's the logic of another poster
I certainly think Brendan Rodgers can legitimately refer to himself as British however
Do you?
Quote from: Rich Ricci on May 16, 2021, 08:52:36 AM
Only seen highlights on the cup final this morning and as much as I dislike Chelsea that is a sickening way to lose.
Great goal to win it and a couple of great saves from Schmeichel added into the mix. IMO he's very underrated as a goalkeeper. Has been one of the best keepers in the league for some time now.
I would agree on schmeichel. I am surprised one of the bigger clubs hasn't came in for him.
Great to see Leicester win this. The bigger teams winning the cups always makes it feel a bit soulless IMO and to see what it means to players in clubs who don't win very much is great to see. The fa cup has been really devalued for quite a while but this has brought back a bit of the "magic of the cup".
I wouldn't be a massive fan of Chelsea as a club but I do like Tuchels. He was very gracious in defeat from what I heard on the interviews.
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 11:01:14 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2021, 10:59:22 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 10:55:40 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2021, 10:44:09 AM
Are Americans British too?
Are people from the Isle of Wight British?
According to you any country that speaks English can be British
Not so
It's the logic of another poster
I certainly think Brendan Rodgers can legitimately refer to himself as British however
Do you?
I couldn't give a stuff if he recognised himself as Klingon. And it was you that said if you post in the English language then that must make you a Brit.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2021, 11:22:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 11:01:14 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2021, 10:59:22 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 10:55:40 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2021, 10:44:09 AM
Are Americans British too?
Are people from the Isle of Wight British?
According to you any country that speaks English can be British
Not so
It's the logic of another poster
I certainly think Brendan Rodgers can legitimately refer to himself as British however
Do you?
I couldn't give a stuff if he recognised himself as Klingon. And it was you that said if you post in the English language then that must make you a Brit.
No, I didn't
According to Benny Cake's logic it does though
According to Benny Cake, if you call Sir Kenny Dalglish Sir Kenny Dalglish that makes you British
That seems a bit crazy to me
It would also make the people of Dungiven British, Sir
As it would any child in school who ever called their teacher "Sir"
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 09:57:35 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 16, 2021, 09:48:02 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 09:25:55 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 16, 2021, 12:18:50 AM
It seems there's more Brits than Brendan Rodgers about, with all this 'Sir' talk.
You post in the English language (loosely, at least), so that must make you a Brit
At least according to your own logic
Well, that's me told. No way out of that one! ;D
Well it clearly is your logic
There is such a thing as the Irish language and it was formerly the primary spoken language on this island, no longer
Destruction of the mother tongue is one of the primary tools of colonisation
A lot of Irish people have always had a very sneering, dismissive attitude towards others they see as less "pure" in their Irishness, ie. the barbs "soup taker", "West Brit" etc.
Yet pretty much all Irish people speak English as their mother tongue, including myself - though I did attend a scoil lán Gaelach so I can also speak Irish
Surely the fact that we here are all writing through English would make us "impure" in our Irishness - "soup takers", "West Brits", at least according to you
Brendan Rodgers can legitimately be both British and Irish by the way
Same as Dublin's world snooker finalist Shaun Murphy can be both Irish and British
Identity is not a black and white thing, it is complex
Thanks for the history lesson sid :o
I was merely addressing the "Sir Alex" and "Sir Kenny" etc, talk. I just don't understand why Irish people would use this British royalist title when speaking of these people.
That's like watching yesterday's match, and Lineker saying "well, what did you make of the first half, Alan Shearer OBE"?... or "describe the winning goal for us, Ian Wright SSC*"?
I didn't hear Rodgers speak of himself as British. I thought maybe someone else had said it.
*Silver swimming certificate
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 16, 2021, 11:02:23 AM
Quote from: Rich Ricci on May 16, 2021, 08:52:36 AM
Only seen highlights on the cup final this morning and as much as I dislike Chelsea that is a sickening way to lose.
Great goal to win it and a couple of great saves from Schmeichel added into the mix. IMO he's very underrated as a goalkeeper. Has been one of the best keepers in the league for some time now.
I would agree on schmeichel. I am surprised one of the bigger clubs hasn't came in for him.
Great to see Leicester win this. The bigger teams winning the cups always makes it feel a bit soulless IMO and to see what it means to players in clubs who don't win very much is great to see. The fa cup has been really devalued for quite a while but this has brought back a bit of the "magic of the cup".
I wouldn't be a massive fan of Chelsea as a club but I do like Tuchels. He was very gracious in defeat from what I heard on the interviews.
I said it 5+ years ago that United should have went for him. He's the best keeper since his father played.
Quote from: BennyCake on May 16, 2021, 11:40:01 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 09:57:35 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 16, 2021, 09:48:02 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 09:25:55 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 16, 2021, 12:18:50 AM
It seems there's more Brits than Brendan Rodgers about, with all this 'Sir' talk.
You post in the English language (loosely, at least), so that must make you a Brit
At least according to your own logic
Well, that's me told. No way out of that one! ;D
Well it clearly is your logic
There is such a thing as the Irish language and it was formerly the primary spoken language on this island, no longer
Destruction of the mother tongue is one of the primary tools of colonisation
A lot of Irish people have always had a very sneering, dismissive attitude towards others they see as less "pure" in their Irishness, ie. the barbs "soup taker", "West Brit" etc.
Yet pretty much all Irish people speak English as their mother tongue, including myself - though I did attend a scoil lán Gaelach so I can also speak Irish
Surely the fact that we here are all writing through English would make us "impure" in our Irishness - "soup takers", "West Brits", at least according to you
Brendan Rodgers can legitimately be both British and Irish by the way
Same as Dublin's world snooker finalist Shaun Murphy can be both Irish and British
Identity is not a black and white thing, it is complex
Thanks for the history lesson sid :o
I was merely addressing the "Sir Alex" and "Sir Kenny" etc, talk. I just don't understand why Irish people would use this British royalist title when speaking of these people.
That's like watching yesterday's match, and Lineker saying "well, what did you make of the first half, Alan Shearer OBE"?... or "describe the winning goal for us, Ian Wright SSC*"?
I didn't hear Rodgers speak of himself as British. I thought maybe someone else had said it.
*Silver swimming certificate
Rodgers called himself a "British coach"
I referred to Sir Kenny out of respect for Sir Kenny as Sir is generally applied to a person of that title in everyday conversation, whereas OBE etc. isn't
I thought that he was referring to the fact that he's a coach of a British team or from the 'Home Nations' but if he changes his mind and calls himself an Irish coach is that ok?
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 11:45:21 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 16, 2021, 11:40:01 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 09:57:35 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 16, 2021, 09:48:02 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 09:25:55 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 16, 2021, 12:18:50 AM
It seems there's more Brits than Brendan Rodgers about, with all this 'Sir' talk.
You post in the English language (loosely, at least), so that must make you a Brit
At least according to your own logic
Well, that's me told. No way out of that one! ;D
Well it clearly is your logic
There is such a thing as the Irish language and it was formerly the primary spoken language on this island, no longer
Destruction of the mother tongue is one of the primary tools of colonisation
A lot of Irish people have always had a very sneering, dismissive attitude towards others they see as less "pure" in their Irishness, ie. the barbs "soup taker", "West Brit" etc.
Yet pretty much all Irish people speak English as their mother tongue, including myself - though I did attend a scoil lán Gaelach so I can also speak Irish
Surely the fact that we here are all writing through English would make us "impure" in our Irishness - "soup takers", "West Brits", at least according to you
Brendan Rodgers can legitimately be both British and Irish by the way
Same as Dublin's world snooker finalist Shaun Murphy can be both Irish and British
Identity is not a black and white thing, it is complex
Thanks for the history lesson sid :o
I was merely addressing the "Sir Alex" and "Sir Kenny" etc, talk. I just don't understand why Irish people would use this British royalist title when speaking of these people.
That's like watching yesterday's match, and Lineker saying "well, what did you make of the first half, Alan Shearer OBE"?... or "describe the winning goal for us, Ian Wright SSC*"?
I didn't hear Rodgers speak of himself as British. I thought maybe someone else had said it.
*Silver swimming certificate
Rodgers called himself a "British coach"
I referred to Sir Kenny out of respect for Sir Kenny as Sir is generally applied to a person of that title in everyday conversation, whereas OBE etc. isn't
I have respect for Kenny and Fergie, for their achievements and as people, but i never refer to them as Sir.
Anyway, I hope you'll be addressing Bono and Jeffrey Donaldson by their proper title (ya little bollix) ;)
Sir Bob
So anyway. Premier League. You know, football and all that....
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2021, 12:03:02 PM
I thought that he was referring to the fact that he's a coach of a British team or from the 'Home Nations' but if he changes his mind and calls himself an Irish coach is that ok?
Yeah that's possibly what he meant.
And no, he can't come back now ;D
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on May 16, 2021, 01:21:36 PM
So anyway. Premier League. You know, football and all that....
Actually, recent posts were about the FA cup. Just Saying.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2021, 12:03:02 PM
I thought that he was referring to the fact that he's a coach of a British team or from the 'Home Nations' but if he changes his mind and calls himself an Irish coach is that ok?
He's more than entitled to identify however he pleases
I have no problem if he identifies as any of the following, or more:
i) British
ii) Irish
iii) Northern Irish
iv) British and Irish
v) British and Northern Irish
vi) Northern Irish and Irish
vii) British, Irish and Northern Irish
viii) Neither British nor Irish nor Northern Irish
ix) A British coach
x) A football man
You f**kers wont be happy to you have every thread ruined with your shite
Anyways, West Brom are 11/1 at home against Liverpool, that's how much Liverpool won't f**k up today, the only game that they are likely to drop points will be next season!
Jota out.
Backup midfield of keita ox and milner all out. Not to mention the long termers.
16 0 to WBA
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on May 16, 2021, 04:20:57 PM
Jota out.
Backup midfield of keita ox and milner all out. Not to mention the long termers.
16 0 to WBA
I reckon we could find a team on here better than West Brom
Cashed out ;D
Liverpool 6 1 . WBA will fade as game goes on.
Quote from: macker15 on May 16, 2021, 04:59:25 PM
Liverpool 6 1 . WBA will fade as game goes on.
I take it you backed that? Just in case you post another win ;D
Liverpool lucky enough there from that WBA corner. Man in his road or not Alisson was getting nowhere near Bartley there.
Liverpool to score soon. You win nowt with 11 behind the ball
Quote from: macker15 on May 16, 2021, 06:12:23 PM
Liverpool to score soon. You win nowt with 11 behind the ball
Still a chance to get another 5!
Told yizzzzzzz. Get in.
Quote from: macker15 on May 16, 2021, 06:25:45 PM
Told yizzzzzzz. Get in.
Aye you're pick was amazing, Liverpool were 1/5
How many points in Fantasy Football for a goalie scoring?
Just looking at the permutations there.
If Liverpool beat Burnley they will go at least 4th leading into the last round of games, as at least one of Leicester and Chelsea will drop points.
If Chelsea beat Leicester 1-0, Leicester would have 66pts and GD of 20, so any win by Liverpool would leapfrog Leicester
If Chelsea Leicester draw, Leicester would be on 67, Chelsea on 65 so any Liverpool win would leapfrog Chelsea with 66 points and at least equal GD with Chelsea
If Leicester beat Chelsea, any Liverpool win would place them 2 points ahead of Chelsea, with superior GD.
So all Liverpool need to do is beat Burnley away (15th) and Crystal Palace at home (13th)
Still alot to ask, the way they're playing at the min
Kane wants to leave Spurs. Now we'll see who has ££££...
It's time for him to move on. He could be a Matt Le Tissier one Club legend,but more drive in Kane to win trophies. City with Aguero leaving ,will probaly be the front runners.
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 17, 2021, 07:32:44 PM
It's time for him to move on. He could be a Matt Le Tissier one Club legend,but more drive in Kane to win trophies. City with Aguero leaving ,will probaly be the front runners.
There's better players than Kane that City could go for considering the price Spurs will be asking
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2021, 07:56:51 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 17, 2021, 07:32:44 PM
It's time for him to move on. He could be a Matt Le Tissier one Club legend,but more drive in Kane to win trophies. City with Aguero leaving ,will probaly be the front runners.
There's better players than Kane that City could go for considering the price Spurs will be asking
He has 3 years left on his contract so it would be a big fee. He says he want to go, not many other big name players saying they want out.
Haaland will likely stay at Dortmund another season.
Spurs be feeling pain more than most at the minute with new stadium to fund in the middle of a pandemic... Not sure their bargaining position as strong as it would a few years back
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2021, 07:56:51 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 17, 2021, 07:32:44 PM
It's time for him to move on. He could be a Matt Le Tissier one Club legend,but more drive in Kane to win trophies. City with Aguero leaving ,will probaly be the front runners.
There's better players than Kane that City could go for considering the price Spurs will be asking
Not sure about that. There's umpteen top drawer strikers over the past two decades who couldn't settle in the premiership, or at least took a season or two. Werner the latest.
These "better" players - Haaland, Lewondowski, Mbappe should be above that scenario. But you never know. And none of those 3 has Kane's all round game, which Guardiola would have to be drawn to.
Will Pep change his formation for a striker like Kane when there are plenty games this year he hasn't played an out and out striker?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2021, 08:51:17 PM
Will Pep change his formation for a striker like Kane when there are plenty games this year he hasn't played an out and out striker?
Kane doesn't really play as a striker though. He does so in spurts, but he kind of goes where he likes. A few seasons of having 3 giant big bastard centre halves from the likes of West Ham, Burnley and Brighton climbing over him from 3 angles has seen him change his game into a roaming one.
Quote from: Boycey on May 17, 2021, 08:32:34 PM
Spurs be feeling pain more than most at the minute with new stadium to fund in the middle of a pandemic... Not sure their bargaining position as strong as it would a few years back
Spurs are a mess. They dumped Poch to get Mourinho who was useless. They are nowhere near the Champions League Final now 2 years later. Levy is very poor.
Joe Lewis has a similar model to Kroenke . He is not interested in winning anything.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2021, 07:56:51 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 17, 2021, 07:32:44 PM
It's time for him to move on. He could be a Matt Le Tissier one Club legend,but more drive in Kane to win trophies. City with Aguero leaving ,will probaly be the front runners.
There's better players than Kane that City could go for considering the price Spurs will be asking
Theres other options there but there's not many better strikers than Kane in the world. Unless they're going for Mbappe or Haaland.
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2021, 08:58:18 PM
Quote from: Boycey on May 17, 2021, 08:32:34 PM
Spurs be feeling pain more than most at the minute with new stadium to fund in the middle of a pandemic... Not sure their bargaining position as strong as it would a few years back
Spurs are a mess. They dumped Poch to get Mourinho who was useless. They are nowhere near the Champions League Final now 2 years later. Levy is very poor.
Joe Lewis has a similar model to Kroenke . He is not interested in winning anything.
Agree Levy has made of mess of everything. Should have given Poch a decent budget after making CL final against the odds. Then players like Alli, Dier,Eriksen and Rose careers with downhill when more in big contract than playing. When Man Utd enquired about Rose and Dier they were quoted 50 million each at the time.
Surely he'll go to either United, City, Real or Barcelona? Who else is there?
100m transfer? More maybe?
Touched getting a lot of flak for not playing abrahams.
Quote from: BennyCake on May 17, 2021, 09:42:34 PM
Surely he'll go to either United, City, Real or Barcelona? Who else is there?
100m transfer? More maybe?
I think he has the PL goals record in his sights so I'd be very surprised if he moved abroad.
Quote from: BennyCake on May 17, 2021, 09:42:34 PM
Surely he'll go to either United, City, Real or Barcelona? Who else is there?
100m transfer? More maybe?
Real or Barca haven't the nails to scratch their own holes atm hence their desperation for this Superleague.
City, Utd or PSG are the only viable options as Levy will put some stupid price on him initially but may have to relent as the window closes.
Utd probably need him the most if Cavani goes as he's meant to be.
Wonder will some club take a punt on Bamford? He's been impressive this year and needs to get out of the "on loan" model at Chelsea
Leeds own Bamford outright.
Cavani signed up for an additional year.
United fans will be hoping that this isnt a sop to prevent buying a striker in the summer window. To be challenging they will need a top class strikers, Abrahams isnt top level.
Fair point on the Spanish clubs, if the top English clubs come in for a player there should be no competition in terms of the fees offered. That's not to say that they still dont have the pulling power just for being who they are but both clubs look like they could be in trouble for a bit.
Kane won't go to United.
If he's leaving Spurs it's to win things. He's not, at his age, going to spearhead the rebuild of a team where there is no right sided players, and the likes of Fred features more often than not. United are really no closer to winning titles or Champions Leagues than the club he's supposed to want to leave.
It's Chelsea, or City. Maybe Liverpool if FSG can see the value. Nowhere else.
Chelsea would be the most likely.
Quote from: thewobbler on May 18, 2021, 10:20:01 AM
Kane won't go to United.
If he's leaving Spurs it's to win things. He's not, at his age, going to spearhead the rebuild of a team where there is no right sided players, and the likes of Fred features more often than not. United are really no closer to winning titles or Champions Leagues than the club he's supposed to want to leave.
It's Chelsea, or City. Maybe Liverpool if FSG can see the value. Nowhere else.
Chelsea would be the most likely.
With Aguero going I cant see any reason why City wont go for him.
Fee and wages would not be an issue
The advantage Chelsea have is they are London based and Kane will play anytime he is fit. Kane is all about Kane and wants to set personal records and beat Alan Shearers tally. He will get that opportunity for definite at either City or Chelsea, I just think he would be more suited to Chelsea's style than City.
Quote from: macker15 on May 17, 2021, 09:28:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2021, 08:58:18 PM
Quote from: Boycey on May 17, 2021, 08:32:34 PM
Spurs be feeling pain more than most at the minute with new stadium to fund in the middle of a pandemic... Not sure their bargaining position as strong as it would a few years back
Spurs are a mess. They dumped Poch to get Mourinho who was useless. They are nowhere near the Champions League Final now 2 years later. Levy is very poor.
Joe Lewis has a similar model to Kroenke . He is not interested in winning anything.
Agree Levy has made of mess of everything. Should have given Poch a decent budget after making CL final against the odds. Then players like Alli, Dier,Eriksen and Rose careers with downhill when more in big contract than playing. When Man Utd enquired about Rose and Dier they were quoted 50 million each at the time.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/05/18/end-harry-kanes-love-affair-spurs-likely-messy-one/
Kane has been the centrepiece of the Daniel Levy era at Tottenham, a figure whose roots and whose work ethic have connected him to supporters desperate for a hero. The flipside of that equation is that Levy is also a fearsome negotiator, who knows his club is drifting, that it cannot even find a manager, and that Kane is critical to any immediate prospects of success.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 18, 2021, 10:17:28 AM
Leeds own Bamford outright.
Ah right. It's hard to keep track with those Chelsea loanees.
Quote from: Taylor on May 18, 2021, 10:41:03 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 18, 2021, 10:20:01 AM
Kane won't go to United.
If he's leaving Spurs it's to win things. He's not, at his age, going to spearhead the rebuild of a team where there is no right sided players, and the likes of Fred features more often than not. United are really no closer to winning titles or Champions Leagues than the club he's supposed to want to leave.
It's Chelsea, or City. Maybe Liverpool if FSG can see the value. Nowhere else.
Chelsea would be the most likely.
With Aguero going I cant see any reason why City wont go for him.
Fee and wages would not be an issue
Is Messi still available for Citeh this summer or has that situation now changed at Barca?
I agree that Kane more than likely stays in the PL to chase the Shearer record. I think it will be with city or utd. He is still more likely to win trophies at Utd than at Spurs.
Quote from: lurganblue on May 18, 2021, 11:34:51 AM
Quote from: Taylor on May 18, 2021, 10:41:03 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 18, 2021, 10:20:01 AM
Kane won't go to United.
If he's leaving Spurs it's to win things. He's not, at his age, going to spearhead the rebuild of a team where there is no right sided players, and the likes of Fred features more often than not. United are really no closer to winning titles or Champions Leagues than the club he's supposed to want to leave.
It's Chelsea, or City. Maybe Liverpool if FSG can see the value. Nowhere else.
Chelsea would be the most likely.
With Aguero going I cant see any reason why City wont go for him.
Fee and wages would not be an issue
Is Messi still available for Citeh this summer or has that situation now changed at Barca?
I agree that Kane more than likely stays in the PL to chase the Shearer record. I think it will be with city or utd. He is still more likely to win trophies at Utd than at Spurs.
At Utd he may win a Cup - thats the height of it and looking at their squad it will be that way for some time to come.
At City he is guaranteed to challenge for major honours year in year out - thats the simple facts
The difficulty with Kane is that he has a long enough contract left and Levy will expect £120m. Not sure if the money men in either of the Manchester clubs will pay that money for a 28 year old player, with a 5 year contract, on at least £200k a week, and him very injury prone. He is one more bad ankle injury away from being finished. I know money generally is no issue but that is a serious question that would need to be asked
Spurs won't sell to Chelsea. It's City or Utd and the latter may or may not be interested?
The top team that need him most can't afford him.
Liverpool
Quote from: johnnycool on May 18, 2021, 12:12:32 PM
The top team that need him most can't afford him.
Liverpool
But Chelsea and Man City with their huge worldwide fan bases can. FFP
Will Spurs come down in price for a want away player in the covid market if the high offers are just not there? Or will they keep him if the high asking price isn't met (like Sancho last year)? I'd say it'll probably be the latter as Kane doesn't strike me as the type of lad to completely down tools.
Quote from: JoG2 on May 18, 2021, 12:19:24 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 18, 2021, 12:12:32 PM
The top team that need him most can't afford him.
Liverpool
But Chelsea and Man City with their huge worldwide fan bases can. FFP
Covid has it ripped up. It doesn't exist for all intents and purposes.
Surely that young prospect from Kerry must be worth £300,000,000 in todays market, and wages £1,000,000pw surely. Fairs fair drain another fecking oil well ffs and pay the goddamn going rate.
Quote from: tiempo on May 18, 2021, 12:50:07 PM
Surely that young prospect from Kerry must be worth £300,000,000 in todays market, and wages £1,000,000pw surely. Fairs fair drain another fecking oil well ffs and pay the goddamn going rate.
Just a little over what Kerry are paying him then ;)
Pep has played this season without a no 9. Do they really need Kane, and would they use him as he should be used?
I honestly think If he stays in the PL, he'll go to United.
Quote from: BennyCake on May 18, 2021, 02:47:52 PM
Pep has played this season without a no 9. Do they really need Kane, and would they use him as he should be used?
I honestly think If he stays in the PL, he'll go to United.
I think he's screwed with the current climate to be honest. City might not want him, United can't (or won't) pay that sort of money and he'll not want to go to Chelsea to ruin things with the Spurs fans. PSG could be the only option for him.
Micah Richards is on BBC saying City should buy Mbappe, Grealish and Halland. How many top end players can a team actually carry and keep them happy? Would Grealish be happy with a bit part role?
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on May 18, 2021, 03:46:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 18, 2021, 02:47:52 PM
Pep has played this season without a no 9. Do they really need Kane, and would they use him as he should be used?
I honestly think If he stays in the PL, he'll go to United.
I think he's screwed with the current climate to be honest. City might not want him, United can't (or won't) pay that sort of money and he'll not want to go to Chelsea to ruin things with the Spurs fans. PSG could be the only option for him.
Micah Richards is on BBC saying City should buy Mbappe, Grealish and Halland. How many top end players can a team actually carry and keep them happy? Would Grealish be happy with a bit part role?
I have thought Grealish would leave over the past two summers and this is the 1st summer in a while when I think he stays were he is... you know what happens now. The owners have said they will match his ambition. This summer will tell a major tale for him i'd say. If the club doesn't show progression then he will do what Kane has just done IMO. Yeah, I would say he would back himself to be a major player at a side like city, or any CL team.
There won't be much liquidity in the market. One big transfer could have some sort of domino effect - but it's hard to see how it plays out. Kane, Haaland, Mbappe, Sancho, etc. They can't all move clubs. Barca and Madrid will only be able to buy big if they are willing to borrow at hefty interest rates. Doesn't seem like the most prudent move right now.
Quote from: lurganblue on May 18, 2021, 04:02:31 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on May 18, 2021, 03:46:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 18, 2021, 02:47:52 PM
Pep has played this season without a no 9. Do they really need Kane, and would they use him as he should be used?
I honestly think If he stays in the PL, he'll go to United.
I think he's screwed with the current climate to be honest. City might not want him, United can't (or won't) pay that sort of money and he'll not want to go to Chelsea to ruin things with the Spurs fans. PSG could be the only option for him.
Micah Richards is on BBC saying City should buy Mbappe, Grealish and Halland. How many top end players can a team actually carry and keep them happy? Would Grealish be happy with a bit part role?
I have thought Grealish would leave over the past two summers and this is the 1st summer in a while when I think he stays were he is... you know what happens now. The owners have said they will match his ambition. This summer will tell a major tale for him i'd say. If the club doesn't show progression then he will do what Kane has just done IMO. Yeah, I would say he would back himself to be a major player at a side like city, or any CL team.
I think he stays to be honest. If he goes to United or Liverpool he plays every week but City have so many players in that area there's only so many can play. Look at Mahrez there. He's starts twice as many games everywhere but Liverpool.
It's unlikely Man United will blow their transfer budget on expensive striker and be left with Lindelof, Fred and McTominay as regular starters but then again it's business men overseeing transfers at the club. According to a number of journalists Uniteds transfer budget will likely be 120 to 150m this summer and its doubtful if the Glazers even release that type revenue money for signings.
Priority signings for United before a striker are a centre back (in talks with Varane) Centre defensive midfielder (Declan Rice strongly linked) right sided winger (Sancho a possibility if Dortmund cut the price down to 80m or less.
I doubt Man City will splash out 120m on one player, their record transfer was De Bruyne for around 70m, City always score goals for fun the main issues was defensively and since Pep arrived they have spent many millions to repair that defence. After many misfits the Dias signing has greatly improved them from the side that finished 18 points off the top of PL and knocked out of the CL by Lyon last season.
Liverpool under the shrewd Michael Edwards will likely sign a bargain priced striker from Spain or Italy who will end up scoring more goals for whatever club Kane plays for next season.
If I was to bet I'd say Kane will either join Chelsea or stay with Spurs. PSG perhaps an option also if Pochettino is kept on for another season.
I couldn't see Kane at Chelsea. They are another London rival of Spurs. At least the Manchester clubs would be another part of England.
I think if Guardiola really wants him he'll make the move. It's a proven scorer in the League, not paying big for someone in Italy or Spain.
VAR may have made a c**k up there. Doesn't look like Fernandes touched that. Glorious finish from Cavani all the same.
Quote from: Rich Ricci on May 18, 2021, 06:25:00 PM
VAR may have made a c**k up there. Doesn't look like Fernandes touched that. Glorious finish from Cavani all the same.
VAR giving United a decision that shouldn't have been given? No. Surely not...
Quote from: Rich Ricci on May 18, 2021, 06:25:00 PM
VAR may have made a c**k up there. Doesn't look like Fernandes touched that. Glorious finish from Cavani all the same.
What is the role or VAR there. Are they entitled to figure out who touched it or do they go on who the ref thinks touched it. If its the ref does it have to be clear and obvious for them to overturn
It is clear and obvious because the replays show Penandes didn't touch the ball and therefore Cavani was about 3 yards offside when De Gea played the ball.
Yet they still gave it anyway, cos United.
Quote from: David McKeown on May 18, 2021, 06:45:52 PM
Quote from: Rich Ricci on May 18, 2021, 06:25:00 PM
VAR may have made a c**k up there. Doesn't look like Fernandes touched that. Glorious finish from Cavani all the same.
What is the role or VAR there. Are they entitled to figure out who touched it or do they go on who the ref thinks touched it. If its the ref does it have to be clear and obvious for them to overturn
Honestly with VAR these days who knows. Saw this from an ESPN journalist on Twitter:
"
I'm told the VAR didn't have definitive evidence from several angles that Fernandes didn't touch the ball (which was needed for Cavani to be ruled offside)."
VAR worked exactly as it should in that occasion...
Quote from: Rich Ricci on May 18, 2021, 06:51:12 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on May 18, 2021, 06:45:52 PM
Quote from: Rich Ricci on May 18, 2021, 06:25:00 PM
VAR may have made a c**k up there. Doesn't look like Fernandes touched that. Glorious finish from Cavani all the same.
What is the role or VAR there. Are they entitled to figure out who touched it or do they go on who the ref thinks touched it. If its the ref does it have to be clear and obvious for them to overturn
Honestly with VAR these days who knows. Saw this from an ESPN journalist on Twitter:
" I'm told the VAR didn't have definitive evidence from several angles that Fernandes didn't touch the ball (which was needed for Cavani to be ruled offside)."
That's what it looked like to me
"VAR didn't have the angle" ;D
The broadcaster of the match seems to have a perfect angle, but VAR don't for some reason ;D
https://twitter.com/skysportspl/status/1394704441631285260?s=21
1:13 in the video.
Doesn't touch the ball, therefore Cavani is offside from De Gea's pass. It's that simple.
It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things it's a nothing match, these things even themselves out over the course of a season.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 18, 2021, 07:26:49 PM
"VAR didn't have the angle" ;D
The broadcaster of the match seems to have a perfect angle, but VAR don't for some reason ;D
https://twitter.com/skysportspl/status/1394704441631285260?s=21
1:13 in the video.
Doesn't touch the ball, therefore Cavani is offside from De Gea's pass. It's that simple.
Sure that doesn't definitively proof anything
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 18, 2021, 07:26:49 PM
"VAR didn't have the angle" ;D
The broadcaster of the match seems to have a perfect angle, but VAR don't for some reason ;D
https://twitter.com/skysportspl/status/1394704441631285260?s=21
1:13 in the video.
Doesn't touch the ball, therefore Cavani is offside from De Gea's pass. It's that simple.
;D No way he touched it. Lovely finish though to be fair.
Quote from: Boycey on May 18, 2021, 07:43:47 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 18, 2021, 07:26:49 PM
"VAR didn't have the angle" ;D
The broadcaster of the match seems to have a perfect angle, but VAR don't for some reason ;D
https://twitter.com/skysportspl/status/1394704441631285260?s=21
1:13 in the video.
Doesn't touch the ball, therefore Cavani is offside from De Gea's pass. It's that simple.
Sure that doesn't definitively proof anything
Take off your manc tinted glasses and open your eyes. It proves he doesn't touch the ball. It's quite obvious
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2021, 07:28:52 PM
It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things it's a nothing match, these things even themselves out over the course of a season.
It hasn't evened itself out. If Liverpool even got half a fairer crack of the whip off Var they'd be comfortably in the top 4, injuries and all. That's just a general throwaway remark you've made with no substance to back it up whatsoever. The stats of the teams affected aren't evenly affected as you have made out
Massive win for Chelsea Europa football for Leicester though they will be happy with the FA Cup.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 18, 2021, 09:18:46 PM
Quote from: Boycey on May 18, 2021, 07:43:47 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 18, 2021, 07:26:49 PM
"VAR didn't have the angle" ;D
The broadcaster of the match seems to have a perfect angle, but VAR don't for some reason ;D
https://twitter.com/skysportspl/status/1394704441631285260?s=21
1:13 in the video.
Doesn't touch the ball, therefore Cavani is offside from De Gea's pass. It's that simple.
Sure that doesn't definitively proof anything
Take off your manc tinted glasses and open your eyes. It proves he doesn't touch the ball. It's quite obvious
Your opening post was that they gave the goal cause it was Utd and ur accusing me of wearing tinted glasses ;D.
Does he touch it, PROBABLY not actually almost certainly not. I certainly don't think he does but the only way you definitively prove he didn't is have a camera shot that shows daylight between Bruno and the ball that one doesn't. Failing that sticking with the onfield decision is the only way to go for good or for bad
Quote from: Boycey on May 18, 2021, 09:51:12 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 18, 2021, 09:18:46 PM
Quote from: Boycey on May 18, 2021, 07:43:47 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 18, 2021, 07:26:49 PM
"VAR didn't have the angle" ;D
The broadcaster of the match seems to have a perfect angle, but VAR don't for some reason ;D
https://twitter.com/skysportspl/status/1394704441631285260?s=21
1:13 in the video.
Doesn't touch the ball, therefore Cavani is offside from De Gea's pass. It's that simple.
Sure that doesn't definitively proof anything
Take off your manc tinted glasses and open your eyes. It proves he doesn't touch the ball. It's quite obvious
Your opening post was that they gave the goal cause it was Utd and ur accusing me of wearing tinted glasses ;D.
Does he touch it, PROBABLY not actually almost certainly not. I certainly don't think he does but the only way you definitively prove he didn't is have a camera shot that shows daylight between Bruno and the ball that one doesn't. Failing that sticking with the onfield decision is the only way to go for good or for bad
Yes. That's exactly why.
You're talking pure muck there.
You can clearly see in the video Penandes didn't touch it. The flight of the ball didn't change. So it shouldn't have been allowed. It's that simple.
Sigh...
Premier league even gave De Gea an assist for it ;D ;D ;D
Liverpool should finish 4th now with two wins against two sides with nothing to play for and 4th was a minimum requirement for them this season.
Leicester for the 2nd season in a row to miss out on top 4, not beating 10 man Southampton and losing at home to Newcastle are the two recent results they will look back on with much regret at least the have the consolidation of the FA Cup win.
Wouldn't be so sure of Liverpool claiming 6 points
Shoe in now, Liverpool will take their rightful place in fourth place. The best run in Liverpool could have fixed, it's a pity they were so erratic this year otherwise it was a double for them, no doubt they will be back.
Quote from: An Watcher on May 18, 2021, 10:23:05 PM
Wouldn't be so sure of Liverpool claiming 6 points
Certainly wouldn't be surprised if they don't.
Only 4 teams with anything to play for?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2021, 10:30:39 PM
Shoe in now, Liverpool will take their rightful place in fourth place. The best run in Liverpool could have fixed, it's a pity they were so erratic this year otherwise it was a double for them, no doubt they will be back.
It's a pity they were shite this season otherwise would have won the double
A lot of teams could say that
Quote from: An Watcher on May 18, 2021, 10:23:05 PM
Wouldn't be so sure of Liverpool claiming 6 points
Burnley tonight with the Burnley fans in..
Win that and they scrape 4th and Klopp may squeeze a transfer or two out of the owners.
Quote from: Dire Ear on May 18, 2021, 10:41:47 PM
Only 4 teams with anything to play for?
It seems in the last couple of weeks there have been a good few teams with nothing to play for who have been playing better than they have all season!
So who is in the best position now?
Chelsea have a few outs, win their own game away to Villa (who have nothing on line?), match Leicester result Sunday or pretty much confirmed if Liverpool don't win either of their last two on goal difference (currently Chelsea hold a 2 goal advantage over Liverpool and 3 over Leicester)
Leicester have to beat Spurs, who they themselves have to win to get into Europa League and could be Kane's final appearance for the club. They could overtake Chelsea should they lose to Villa or even on Goal difference should they draw and Chelsea get beat by enough.
Liverpool pretty simple, win 2 games. Anything else....will be tough.
Throw in Kane (and Salah) bein mad to finish top scorer. Few twists and turns yet...
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 19, 2021, 12:47:54 PM
So who is in the best position now?
Chelsea have a few outs, win their own game away to Villa (who have nothing on line?), match Leicester result Sunday or pretty much confirmed if Liverpool don't win either of their last two on goal difference (currently Chelsea hold a 2 goal advantage over Liverpool and 3 over Leicester)
Leicester have to beat Spurs, who they themselves have to win to get into Europa League and could be Kane's final appearance for the club. They could overtake Chelsea should they lose to Villa or even on Goal difference should they draw and Chelsea get beat by enough.
Liverpool pretty simple, win 2 games. Anything else....will be tough.
Not only do Spurs need to win games to get Europa league , they also have to win them to avoid the UEFA Conference. 7th place would be a nightmare for a club like Spurs right now. Would be better off coming 8th.
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on May 19, 2021, 01:03:10 PM
Throw in Kane (and Salah) bein mad to finish top scorer. Few twists and turns yet...
We might see Salah being selfish these last two games then.... ;)
Quote from: shark on May 19, 2021, 01:08:23 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 19, 2021, 12:47:54 PM
So who is in the best position now?
Chelsea have a few outs, win their own game away to Villa (who have nothing on line?), match Leicester result Sunday or pretty much confirmed if Liverpool don't win either of their last two on goal difference (currently Chelsea hold a 2 goal advantage over Liverpool and 3 over Leicester)
Leicester have to beat Spurs, who they themselves have to win to get into Europa League and could be Kane's final appearance for the club. They could overtake Chelsea should they lose to Villa or even on Goal difference should they draw and Chelsea get beat by enough.
Liverpool pretty simple, win 2 games. Anything else....will be tough.
Not only do Spurs need to win games to get Europa league , they also have to win them to avoid the UEFA Conference. 7th place would be a nightmare for a club like Spurs right now. Would be better off coming 8th.
After tonights result that looks more likely for Tottenham now.
Not much about Spurs tonight really, and in truth Villa really should have scored more. Kane's last home game ends with a whimper.
How is Dier going to the euros fs?
Quote from: lurganblue on May 19, 2021, 08:32:11 PM
Not much about Spurs tonight really, and in truth Villa really should have scored more. Kane's last home game ends with a whimper.
How is Dier going to the euros fs?
Was only on a few mins but Chukwumeka really looked the part.
Quote from: shark on May 19, 2021, 08:36:20 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on May 19, 2021, 08:32:11 PM
Not much about Spurs tonight really, and in truth Villa really should have scored more. Kane's last home game ends with a whimper.
How is Dier going to the euros fs?
Was only on a few mins but Chukwumeka really looked the part.
Did. There was a rumour he was going to start this match. Didnt look out of place. Should get a lot more minutes next season.
Decent finish to the season. A bit to play for at the top. I hope West Ham don't miss out. City were fantastic. Liverpool fairly crap for the players they have and the 30 year stuff. Utd interesting - not convinced they're the second-best side in that league.
Quote from: ONeill on May 19, 2021, 11:07:09 PM
Decent finish to the season. A bit to play for at the top. I hope West Ham don't miss out. City were fantastic. Liverpool fairly crap for the players they have and the 30 year stuff. Utd interesting - not convinced they're the second-best side in that league.
Arsenal are looking good for the Europa conference league.
Great result for Liverpool . Great end to the season. Tottenham were pathetic tonight .How did Mason get caretaker role?
Some yapping from Big Sam after the game tonight
Quote from: gawa316 on May 20, 2021, 01:00:28 AM
Some yapping from Big Sam after the game tonight
Still upset that Liverpool was "dead lucky" to beat his West Brom side.
Nuno leaving Wolves.
They might face some trouble next year.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 21, 2021, 02:31:20 PM
Nuno leaving Wolves.
They might face some trouble next year.
Look at the goals for column; fvcked.
Also would Neves not be looking to move up a level now at this stage? Surely Yanited could plunder, though they'd get the cheque book well stung in return, disproportionately so.
Still baffled none of the so called top 6 went for Moutinho that time he ended up at Wolves, I know a lot to do with the agent but was there for the taking. Probably not much left in him now.
Quote from: tiempo on May 21, 2021, 02:36:50 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 21, 2021, 02:31:20 PM
Nuno leaving Wolves.
They might face some trouble next year.
Look at the goals for column; fvcked.
Also would Neves not be looking to move up a level now at this stage? Surely Yanited could plunder, though they'd get the cheque book well stung in return, disproportionately so.
Still baffled none of the so called top 6 went for Moutinho that time he ended up at Wolves, I know a lot to do with the agent but was there for the taking. Probably not much left in him now.
Yeah only the bottom 4 clubs have scored less than them. The nasty injury Jimenez sustained definitely didn't help their cause.
I see Nuno is now odds on favourite for the Spurs job. Not sure about that myself but looking at the list there isn't really a lot of standout contenders.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 21, 2021, 02:31:20 PM
Nuno leaving Wolves.
They might face some trouble next year.
Will be relegated if they don't make a like for like replacement.
almost certain some of the Portugese contingent will go too
Maybe Mourinho went to Roma too soon. Wolves would have been a nice one for him.
Big Sam or Woy for Wolves
Woy retired did he not?
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 21, 2021, 06:10:29 PM
Woy retired did he not?
From Palace ;)
Did he say that's it completely? Haven't read anything other than leaving them.
I read an interview with him where he said how much he'd miss football as it's been part of his life plus the send off wasn't exactly that of a manager who hadn't been doing well enough.
Villa 2-0 ahead, as it stands Chelsea will finish 5th and top 4 places for Liverpool and Leicester.
Leicester drawn. Chelsea have 4th spot sorted now.
Feel sorry for Leicester. Would have loved Chelsea to finish 5th.
f**king Spurs. Can't do anything right.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on May 23, 2021, 05:47:01 PM
f**king Spurs. Can't do anything right.
They'll be in the prestigious Europa Conference League next season now, would probably have been better for them if they hadn't won today...
Hahahahahahahhaaha 3rd place. Despite VAR and injuries, the Redmen have had the last laugh. Again.
Jürgen Klopp manager of the season.
Some mess up by Leicester and Rodgers. Can only blame themselves for not finishing in the top 4 for a second season in a row.
Quote from: GJL on March 07, 2021, 08:35:54 PM
Quote from: laoislad on February 07, 2021, 08:22:43 PM
Quote from: GJL on February 07, 2021, 08:14:40 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: maldini on February 07, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Roy Keane not holding back
What's he saying?
Don't forget in December he said city had no chance of winning the league
along the lines of; all they do is make excuses, they've been bad champions, they didn't look to push on and try to retain it, happy patting themselves on the back and if they continue like this it'll be another 30 years before they win it again.
To be fair he is not far wrong with Liverpool. Worst defence of a PL ever.
Man United finished 7th the season after the last time they won it,which is nearly 8 years ago now since they won it....Maybe if Liverpool finish 8th you might have a case...
👀
👀
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 23, 2021, 06:01:48 PM
Some mess up by Leicester and Rodgers. Can only blame themselves for not finishing in the top 4 for a second season in a row.
Yeah. They've had rotten luck with injuries all season - but they were in position so can only blame themselves. Villa did them a favour and they couldn't beat the disinterested rabble that is Spurs.
Leicester shit themselves, Chelsea lucky, Liverpool doing well for all the injuries they had all season, I'm surprised they made top 6 never mind 3rd
Utd going all season without losing away from home is a first for them
City are you unbelievable, if they buy Kane then he'll score 30 goals plus
West Ham for me have done the best considering where they where last season
All set up for a nil nil draw in the CL with Chelsea winning on penalties
City won that easy. Agree about West Ham. Fair play Moyes. Liverpool were a disaster as holders. They were top after 17 games. Spurs will be one to watch if they get serious spending money on Kane.
Quote from: ONeill on May 23, 2021, 10:34:00 PM
City won that easy. Agree about West Ham. Fair play Moyes. Liverpool were a disaster as holders. They were top after 17 games. Spurs will be one to watch if they get serious spending money on Kane.
Won't be much good if they sell him at the end of the window, like Levy has done in the past.
Quote from: laoislad on May 23, 2021, 06:09:02 PM
Quote from: GJL on March 07, 2021, 08:35:54 PM
Quote from: laoislad on February 07, 2021, 08:22:43 PM
Quote from: GJL on February 07, 2021, 08:14:40 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: maldini on February 07, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 07, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Roy Keane not holding back
What's he saying?
Don't forget in December he said city had no chance of winning the league
along the lines of; all they do is make excuses, they've been bad champions, they didn't look to push on and try to retain it, happy patting themselves on the back and if they continue like this it'll be another 30 years before they win it again.
To be fair he is not far wrong with Liverpool. Worst defence of a PL ever.
Man United finished 7th the season after the last time they won it,which is nearly 8 years ago now since they won it....Maybe if Liverpool finish 8th you might have a case...
👀
👀
SAF retired. Klopp has done a Blackburn. Flash in the pan.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 23, 2021, 06:25:31 PM
Leicester shit themselves, Chelsea lucky, Liverpool doing well for all the injuries they had all season, I'm surprised they made top 6 never mind 3rd
Utd going all season without losing away from home is a first for them
City are you unbelievable, if they buy Kane then he'll score 30 goals plus
West Ham for me have done the best considering where they where last season
All set up for a nil nil draw in the CL with Chelsea winning on penalties
Leicester did get 2 pens yesterday, they only have themselves to blame as the team going into the weekend that had to win. Chelsea just had to equal one of them or Liverpools results and didn't actually have to win.
Actually feel a bit sorry for Rodgers this morning but if Leicester owners back him with the money for more of a squad, there's no reason they can't finish the job next time.
You try too hard stpatsabu.
Yeah I feel sorry for Rodgers but am glad he got a trophy anyway.
All that hard work from Villa and spurs go and do that! Unbelievable.
Time for summer transfer rumour silly season...
Quote from: lurganblue on May 24, 2021, 10:03:26 AM
All that hard work from Villa and spurs go and do that! Unbelievable.
Time for summer transfer rumour silly season...
Bale won't stay with that rabble, where will he go? He'll have to take a serious pay cut no matter where!
Kane is fucked, he's another few years left on a 6 year contract, the stupid bollox. Levy will make him sit it out unless mad money comes in and I can't see it happening.
You have to look at Moyes for manager of the season also.
He done some job this season. If Antonio didn't just suffer those injuries could they have even nicked Champions League?
Bielsa and obviously Pep would be the 3 front runners?
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 24, 2021, 10:06:44 AM
You have to look at Moyes for manager of the season also.
He done some job this season. If Antonio didn't just suffer those injuries could they have even nicked Champions League?
Bielsa and obviously Pep would be the 3 front runners?
Moyes for me yeah. Bielsa probably second.
Just looked there, Leicester only won one of their last 5 league games - against Man Utd Reserves!
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 26, 2021, 06:54:52 PM
Just looked there, Leicester only won one of their last 5 league games - against Man Utd Reserves!
They'll get another chance next season. Looks like they are signing Soumere from Lille, who has looked fantastic this season.
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 26, 2021, 06:54:52 PM
Just looked there, Leicester only won one of their last 5 league games - against Man Utd Reserves!
The 4 richest clubs got the champions League places. They were all part of the ESL plans as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT03vCaL-F0
The system broken.
For me this is the order of Trophies
Premier League
Champions League
FA Cup
FIFA World Club Cup
Europa League
League Cup
UEFA Super Cup
Europa Conference League
Charity Shield
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 27, 2021, 01:44:22 AM
For me this is the order of Trophies
Premier League
Champions League
FA Cup
FIFA World Club Cup
Europa League
League Cup
UEFA Super Cup
Europa Conference League
Charity Shield
Around the same level as the Uefa super cup, might be nice to win however few remember the winners or finalists.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 26, 2021, 11:28:46 PM
The system broken.
2 of them in the Champions League final
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETxmCCsMoD0
How is the system supposed to work ?
Quote from: seafoid on May 27, 2021, 07:34:24 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 26, 2021, 11:28:46 PM
The system broken.
2 of them in the Champions League final
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETxmCCsMoD0
How is the system supposed to work ?
It can't. It's broke.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 27, 2021, 09:47:39 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 27, 2021, 07:34:24 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 26, 2021, 11:28:46 PM
The system broken.
2 of them in the Champions League final
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETxmCCsMoD0
How is the system supposed to work ?
It can't. It's broke.
Before it broke how did it work ?
Badly.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 27, 2021, 10:20:58 AM
Badly.
I presume you're talking about the TV money or the likes, yes, no?
No. More tongue in cheek. Seafoid has a thing for broken systems.
Brentford 2-0 ahead in the play off, looking good for Premier league action next season.
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 27, 2021, 01:44:22 AM
For me this is the order of Trophies
Premier League
Champions League
FA Cup
FIFA World Club Cup
Europa League
League Cup
UEFA Super Cup
Europa Conference League
Charity Shield
Whatever happened the Inter-toto cup?
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 29, 2021, 09:30:07 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 27, 2021, 01:44:22 AM
For me this is the order of Trophies
Premier League
Champions League
FA Cup
FIFA World Club Cup
Europa League
League Cup
UEFA Super Cup
Europa Conference League
Charity Shield
Whatever happened the Inter-toto cup?
It basically became the Europa League in 2009!
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 27, 2021, 01:44:22 AM
For me this is the order of Trophies
Premier League
Champions League
FA Cup
FIFA World Club Cup
Europa League
League Cup
UEFA Super Cup
Europa Conference League
Charity Shield
Ach now don't forget the Fairs Cup...
Quote from: StPatsAbu on May 29, 2021, 11:34:47 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 27, 2021, 01:44:22 AM
For me this is the order of Trophies
Premier League
Champions League
FA Cup
FIFA World Club Cup
Europa League
League Cup
UEFA Super Cup
Europa Conference League
Charity Shield
Ach now don't forget the Fairs Cup...
It's been forgotten about since 1971!
Conte the new Tottenham manager looks likely.
Big Nuno in the running for the Everton job.
I could live with that.
Quote from: johnnycool on June 02, 2021, 04:00:53 PM
Big Nuno in the running for the Everton job.
I could live with that.
Wolves played some terrible football at times. And they had good players in that team too.
Hope he brings Traore with him if he comes.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 02, 2021, 04:27:23 PM
Hope he brings Traore with him if he comes.
Not convinced on Traore. Kick and run merchant IMO. For every wonder goal there's two dozen mishit passes and dribbles that come to nothing.
He would give you something different off the bench but yeah he is a bit "raw".
He's been "raw" for 5 years now. Certainly had a poor year this year but was decent the year before. I'd be more interested in Neto and Neves.
Quote from: johnnycool on June 03, 2021, 10:01:06 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 02, 2021, 04:27:23 PM
Hope he brings Traore with him if he comes.
Not convinced on Traore. Kick and run merchant IMO. For every wonder goal there's two dozen mishit passes and dribbles that come to nothing.
Not too many wonder goals scored by him either though.
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 03, 2021, 11:48:27 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 03, 2021, 10:01:06 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 02, 2021, 04:27:23 PM
Hope he brings Traore with him if he comes.
Not convinced on Traore. Kick and run merchant IMO. For every wonder goal there's two dozen mishit passes and dribbles that come to nothing.
Not too many wonder goals scored by him either though.
Traore is a muscly Walcott. Runs very fast, scores the odd spectacular, final ball is shite. Perfect for Everton!
big Iwobi has that position in the squad sewn up tho 😁
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on June 03, 2021, 12:18:34 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 03, 2021, 11:48:27 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 03, 2021, 10:01:06 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 02, 2021, 04:27:23 PM
Hope he brings Traore with him if he comes.
Not convinced on Traore. Kick and run merchant IMO. For every wonder goal there's two dozen mishit passes and dribbles that come to nothing.
Not too many wonder goals scored by him either though.
Traore is a muscly Walcott. Runs very fast, scores the odd spectacular, final ball is shite. Perfect for Everton!
I had heard someone else describe him as a very muscular Dan James