Antrim U21s were destroyed by Dublin yesterday - their minors got humiliated as well.
There's not much coming through on the evidence in Newry yesterday. Future looks bleak.
Different story for Dublin though - Antrim need to get the Dublin hurling development blueprint of them and get it working in Belfast.
There's an Antrim hurling thread: http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=1347.msg1006541#new
Right sentiments from you in terms of what needs to be done. Belfast is Ireland's second city and the GAA need to get the finger out and take Belfast seriously if they are serious about promoting hurling in the country.
We have around 20 odd clubs in Belfast, most paying lip service to their duties, some working away and some promoting the games the way they should be. At divisional board level, I couldn't imagine there being a weaker board in the country. Antrim and in particular, Belfast needs all the help it can get and Croke Park need to lead and support it.
We know its not the perfect solution, we know that the clubs should be doing it but they aren't.........
antrim minors and 21's should enter leinster. Its a joke having the antrim 21's into the semis very year to get hockeyed.
You need the weight of numbers (passionate adults and finance) to make good things happen and we lack the right amount of both at both intercounty and club level.
A sad result
Quote from: theskull1 on August 21, 2011, 07:30:48 PM
You need the weight of numbers (passionate adults and finance) to make good things happen and we lack the right amount of both at both intercounty and club level.
A sad result
Even sadder was that everyone saw it coming and there was absolutely no optimism at all. Bad times.
enter leinster what a lot of balls what difference has it made or will it make
Quote from: INDIANA on August 21, 2011, 06:45:58 PM
antrim minors and 21's should enter leinster. Its a joke having the antrim 21's into the semis very year to get hockeyed.
Then that'll mean the likes of Down, Derry and Armagh going straight into a semi-final and getting an even bigger hockeying, unless you are suggesting more fundamental changes to the system?
None of the Ulster counties care about the u21 grade. The county Boards don't care and the players don't care. Derry couldn't even field against Antrim. Down appointed a manger 2 or 3 weeks before the first match and Antrim's preparations were shambolic.
The Ulster champions should not enter the All Ireland semi until we are prepared to put the effort into this grade.
Quote from: Lecale2 on August 22, 2011, 09:39:28 AM
None of the Ulster counties care about the u21 grade. The county Boards don't care and the players don't care. Derry couldn't even field against Antrim. Down appointed a manger 2 or 3 weeks before the first match and Antrim's preparations were shambolic.
The Ulster champions should not enter the All Ireland semi until we are prepared to put the effort into this grade.
Armagh cared about it. Should have beaten Antrim in the final too.
Finance is key - the culture needs to change. Volunteers can do their best but Antrim will need to get the funds to pay coaches to organise clubs and run programmes to get kids playing hurling and keep them at it.
Antrim beat Dublin last year - but they mightn't get close to them for a decade if things continue like this.
Quote from: outinfrontpod on August 22, 2011, 02:03:01 PM
Finance is key - the culture needs to change. Volunteers can do their best but Antrim will need to get the funds to pay coaches to organise clubs and run programmes to get kids playing hurling and keep them at it.
Antrim beat Dublin last year - but they mightn't get close to them for a decade if things continue like this.
There's loads of Belfast based coaches on the Ulster councils payroll. They are employed to coach throughout the province.
Surely they offer this expertise back into their own clubs and communities without recompense??
It's not all about money, its more to do with organisation and everyone working to the one goal.
Fair enough, the coaches might be there but if this summer's anything to go on they ain't earning their corn.
Quote from: outinfrontpod on August 22, 2011, 06:15:18 PM
Fair enough, the coaches might be there but if this summer's anything to go on they ain't earning their corn.
says who?
I'm only being a bollox on this issue as I'm not sure who these coaches are answerable to and who decides whether they are successful or not?
Run the odd bullshitty course over a weekend or whenever and you're a great fella.
It takes a tremendous drive/effort and a great plan to make something happen. You also need to have a splash of real talent also to work with to keep it going.
We (weaker counties) need to have committed coaches at each club, they also need to to have numbers to work with and and the equipment i.e balls, sticks, cones, bibs, indoor/3 G pitches (for winter training) the odd outside county hurler to have a few sessions. Kids love competitions so regular games down south with teams and taking them to Croke for big games. Always keeping the focus.
All this needs to be done and over the course of 10/12 years, this cost money. We have some lads doing wonders with our under 10's at the minute and it's brilliant and watching these lads gives me great hope for the future. But they need another 8/10 years of the same stuff at the minute to make an impact come senior
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 22, 2011, 10:23:19 PM
It takes a tremendous drive/effort and a great plan to make something happen. You also need to have a splash of real talent also to work with to keep it going.
We (weaker counties) need to have committed coaches at each club, they also need to to have numbers to work with and and the equipment i.e balls, sticks, cones, bibs, indoor/3 G pitches (for winter training) the odd outside county hurler to have a few sessions. Kids love competitions so regular games down south with teams and taking them to Croke for big games. Always keeping the focus.
All this needs to be done and over the course of 10/12 years, this cost money. We have some lads doing wonders with our under 10's at the minute and it's brilliant and watching these lads gives me great hope for the future. But they need another 8/10 years of the same stuff at the minute to make an impact come senior
Certainly you need money to buy equipment etc, but I'd loathe to be lining the pockets of some of these coaches who don't know their arse from their elbow.
Judging by the problems that are apparent in Antrim there are similar trends throughout the province and as such this thread should really be titled 'Ulster Hurling'.
It's in a bad shape at the minute in terms of advancement. With the exception of Armagh, has any county in Ulster actually improved over the past 5 years? Antrim have stayed at pretty much the same level and have reached that dreaded glass ceiling. Something needs to be done to break that obstacle.
The Urban Games development that is being pushed by the GAA at the minute has picked out Belfast and Derry as two of the cities in need of development. I'm not sure what effect it is having in Belfast but I can tell you that recently two more coaches were emploed in Derry city to make a number of 10 ( ithink) full time coaches in the city council area. 9 are in football and the other works as a dual coach...don't really need to say more than that.
Between minor and u21 ulster in general has got into a pretty bad state really. Derry not being able to field an u21 team is, in my opinion, a disgrace. Mind you I think some other teams put out a team and no more so that's not to single them out.
You look at Dublin and all the guys between 18 and 21(and maybe below if they're good enough) are aspiring to get onto the county team and on top of that they'll be traiining hard because they're aspiring to win an AI you would have to say that there is just not the sense of desire in the ulster counties, at u21 particularly, to wear the county jersey. So not only are you battling hurling ability you are also battling hunger then you're battling preparation. As raw hurlers Dublin are not as much better than antrim as the scoreline suggests(though they would be quite a bit better but not that much) but commitment, organisation and various other factors just magnify the gap.
To be honest I think something needs done badly in the u21 series. Ulster teams getting straight into the semis is pointless. Maybe it should be revamped as per minor or maybe teams should, up front, consider going into leinster or ulster is the best they can achieve.(obviously ulster teams only). As it stands a semi involving an ulster team is a waste of time.
It is also doing nothing to further ulster hurling and will more than likely have repercussions on the senior in the not too distant future.
Dublin and Belfast are cities, that's where the similarity ends. Clubs in Dublin have huge playing pools compared to Belfast clubs and with a lot of them their facilities are on a different planet altogether.
Take for example Kilmacud crokes, their membership is €500 (prob more now) and no one blinks and their membership is probably near if not over 1000. There's no one club in Belfast remotely like that but there's several clubs in Dublin on a similar level to that, so don't be going and thinking that the Dublin model for success is easily transferred into Belfast as that's just lazy.
Dublin hurling has gotten the taste of it from Feile winning teams, to minors, U-21's and with a few more years experience they'll be bagging a senior all Ireland. They have been doing the grafting for near on 10 years with the youngsters, there's no quick bang for your buck in hurling.
I think you're missing the point a wee bit there in terms of the comparisons with Belfast and Dublin. You need to make a comparison between Belfast now and Dublin 10 years ago. 10 years ago Antrim were better than Dublin. In fact 10 years ago Derry were beating Dublin. Over a lengthy period of time in excess of 9 million euro has been pumped into Dublin Hurling. Yes...just Hurling. The increase in playing figures for Hurling could be tracked beside this investment and very very clearly Dublin's rise to the top of the Hurling world (or to the top table at least) can be attributed to this investment (along with a great deal of hard work). It wasn't club money that was put into developing Hurling in Dublin it was GAA money. Club membership fees therefore aren't really the thing that made the difference although i do agree that they wouldn't do any harm!
Quote from: Poc me on August 23, 2011, 05:56:13 PM
Judging by the problems that are apparent in Antrim there are similar trends throughout the province and as such this thread should really be titled 'Ulster Hurling'.
It's in a bad shape at the minute in terms of advancement. With the exception of Armagh, has any county in Ulster actually improved over the past 5 years? Antrim have stayed at pretty much the same level and have reached that dreaded glass ceiling. Something needs to be done to break that obstacle.
The Urban Games development that is being pushed by the GAA at the minute has picked out Belfast and Derry as two of the cities in need of development. I'm not sure what effect it is having in Belfast but I can tell you that recently two more coaches were emploed in Derry city to make a number of 10 ( ithink) full time coaches in the city council area. 9 are in football and the other works as a dual coach...don't really need to say more than that.
Indeed
Quote from: johnneycool on August 23, 2011, 01:53:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 22, 2011, 10:23:19 PM
It takes a tremendous drive/effort and a great plan to make something happen. You also need to have a splash of real talent also to work with to keep it going.
We (weaker counties) need to have committed coaches at each club, they also need to to have numbers to work with and and the equipment i.e balls, sticks, cones, bibs, indoor/3 G pitches (for winter training) the odd outside county hurler to have a few sessions. Kids love competitions so regular games down south with teams and taking them to Croke for big games. Always keeping the focus.
All this needs to be done and over the course of 10/12 years, this cost money. We have some lads doing wonders with our under 10's at the minute and it's brilliant and watching these lads gives me great hope for the future. But they need another 8/10 years of the same stuff at the minute to make an impact come senior
Certainly you need money to buy equipment etc, but I'd loathe to be lining the pockets of some of these coaches who don't know their arse from their elbow.
Would agree with you on this JC. I remember someone telling me a few years ago that certain individuals, in Belfast in particular, were not too interested in doing coaching courses until they realised the gravy train that was on its way. They nearly kicked the door down after that. For people to think that throwing hundreds of thousands of pounds at paid coaches parachuted in is the solution is wrong, in my opinion.
The problem we have is the level of coaching in our clubs, they are not producing a high enough standard of player. There is no way i would demean or criticise anyone that gives up their free time (something a lot of these "coaches" won't do) to train youngsters in their club, but i think if those volunteers received some good pertinent guidance you would be on the right track.
Quote from: Poc me on August 23, 2011, 05:56:13 PM
Judging by the problems that are apparent in Antrim there are similar trends throughout the province and as such this thread should really be titled 'Ulster Hurling'.
It's in a bad shape at the minute in terms of advancement. With the exception of Armagh, has any county in Ulster actually improved over the past 5 years? Antrim have stayed at pretty much the same level and have reached that dreaded glass ceiling. Something needs to be done to break that obstacle.
The Urban Games development that is being pushed by the GAA at the minute has picked out Belfast and Derry as two of the cities in need of development. I'm not sure what effect it is having in Belfast but I can tell you that recently two more coaches were emploed in Derry city to make a number of 10 ( ithink) full time coaches in the city council area. 9 are in football and the other works as a dual coach...don't really need to say more than that.
Here, here!
The situation in Derry City is truely shameful. I can tell you as 100% true fact that Na Magha (the only hurling club in Derry City) havent got one wain as a result of the Derry City Coaching Set Up. Its all football. The dual coach does a wee bit and is deffo interested in hurling but spends most of her time working on football. The rest do nothing. They havent got the know how or desire. The coaches at Na Magha are first class but they are fighting a losing battle. Derry City needs to be treated a special case with a Paudie Butler type character brought in. Derry hurling really needs Na Magha to grow. Everybody seems blind to this.
Does the gaaboard need two Antrim Hurling threads? Should this be called The Problem With Antrim/Ulster Hurling Thread?
Here is an article I have put together about Dublin v Ulster Hurling - http://mal-sport.blogspot.com/2011/08/dublin-hurling-revolution.html