Still no place for gaelic games in NI state school sector

[SammyG]

If Discover Ireland had rules about supporting a United Ireland or started raising funds for political/paramilitary groups then yes I'd have a problem with them.

no intentions of getting into this whole debate but this comment gave me a bit of a shock.
Is this a serious suggestion that the GAA are raising funds for political / parimilitary groups?

Can you explain please Sammy? Perhaps I took it up wrong but it really needs clarifying.

See reply to Jim

[his holiness nb]

Cant open the links Sammy. Whats in them?

[SammyG]

Cant open the links Sammy. Whats in them?

"FUNCTION: Cork Republican Commemoration Committee, Christmas Fundraiser, featuring The Irish Brigade & Spirit of Freedom,Saturday 15th December 8pm at St.Finbarr's GAA club Togher Cork City, Táille €10."


and

"TERENCE MacSWINEY WEEKEND: 2.30-5pm Saturday 27 October, Ballyphehane Community Centre: 'Revolutionary Politics in Ireland: 1920 and today'. Contributions from Martin Ferris TD, Cllr. David Cullinane and Paul O'Connor, followed by open discussion. 8pm Blackrock GAA club 'A festival of Ballads' featuring The Irish Brigade, The Spirit of Freedom, Shebeen's Alan Quinn and Padraig Mór (ex Shebeen) Táille €10, tickets available from the Sinn Féin office 136 Barrack st Cork tel 021-4311389. 11am Sunday 28 October,  Historical Walk Through Rebel Cork. Guided tour of places in Cork City centre associated with people and events of the Tan war. Assemble at the Sinn Féin 136 Barrack St. 2.30pm: Annual Terence MacSwiney Commemoration, assemble at Ballyphehane Community Centre. March to the Republican Plot, St.Finbarr's cemetery, music and refreshments afterwards at Tom Lynch's bar Barrack St."

Just the first couple of random examples, if you google you'll find dozens.

[Boolerhead Mel]

So when the GAA clubs hire out function rooms to legitimate political parties they are raising money for paramilitaries-what they are doing is no worse than making a few bob. I await Sammy and his mates to also include the Hastings Hotel Group (hiring of function rooms in Europa to SF)  and Belfast City council (hire of Ulster hall to SF) be be branded paramilitary fundraisers. What was the excuse you used when UVF/LVF kicked a man to death outside Tobermore FC-not the IFA's fault as they did no remit over what happened in the club. Away and wind your neck in you p***k-attitudes like yours led to the death of good men Sean Browne to be killed and Gavin Brett to be killed. 

[Evil Genius]

If Discover Ireland had rules about supporting a United Ireland or started raising funds for political/paramilitary groups then yes I'd have a problem with them. Until that time then I'm happy to let them get on with doing a reasonably good job.

Listen,

I have accepted and discussed your thoughts on the GAA time on time.  I can accept criticism of the organisation and I can even understand the pedantic intepretation you have of the rules about "National Identity".  However the GAA has not ever raised funds for political/paramilitary groups of any description.  That is an appalling comment.  It's the kind of shíte that has cost innocent GAA members their lives.  Shame!.

That kind of comment might go down well with in the OWC domain but they are a gross and highly dangerous over-statement of the issue.

/Jim.

You might not like it Jim but you can't deny that it goes on.

Try http://www.anphoblacht.com/events/2007-11-15

or http://www.anphoblacht.com/events/2007-10-18

Or just google An Phoblacht GAA and Fund and you'll find loads.

Sammy,
To be strictly accurate, I don't think this is a case of the GAA per se raising funds for paramilitaries etc, more a case of them allowing their premises to be used by such organisations (or their "political representatives"  ) to raise funds.
Not, of course, that this semantic distinction makes a great deal of difference when placed in the context e.g. of Tyone GAA refusing permission for an Omagh bomb victims fundraiser at Healy Park, on the basis that such an event contravened the GAA's rules on being identified with "poilitical" events, so that the organisers had instead to use the much smaller St.Julian's Road (Omagh Town FC), thereby greatly reducing the amount raised.  

Whatever the anti-GAA bigotry employed by some of those who would oppose Gaelic games in NI State schools (and it certainly exists), unless or until the GAA addresses such iniquitous, indeed hypocritical practices, it is not going to enlist the sympathy of "ordinary" Unionist parents/teachers etc in NI, whose co-operation and support will be vital if the GAA is ever to succeed in expanding its reach beyond its traditional constituency.

As I said earlier, it's over to you, Mr. Brennan.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

[You might not like it Jim but you can't deny that it goes on.

Try http://www.anphoblacht.com/events/2007-11-15

or http://www.anphoblacht.com/events/2007-10-18

Or just google An Phoblacht GAA and Fund and you'll find loads.

Actually I don't like what goes on.  But what is going on is that individual GAA clubs are renting out their premises to events I don't like.

The GAA is not (and never has) "started raising funds for political/paramilitary groups".

Before you start making leaps of understanding or throwing wild accusations about you should do a more comprehensive research to understand the issues.  

For example in my parish I am a member of the GAA and also on the hall committee.  The hall committee has more non-GAA members than GAA members.  Although the GAA owns the hall they are happy to leave it as a resource to the community (which no doubt St. Finbarrs are too).   That means that local political, community and sporting groups use the hall.   That's life.  

Either way this is all a far cry from what you said.   I find it incredulous that you don't realise this given the pedantic treatment you have given other statements.

/Jim.

[his holiness nb]

With respect Sammy, they are NOT raising any monies for these organisations.
The two organisations you mentioned are not the GAA.
The GAA clubs rented their premises out to the organisations, so if anything they are taking money from them  

Your suggestion that the GAA raised funds for these organisations is a disgraceful lie. You know this.
You never cease to amaze me with your vain attempts to blacken the name of the GAA.

Oh and you did say the GAA was a racist organisation, crystal clear on OWC.
Deny it and its another lie.
And dont even bother asking for me to go over there to dig out quotes, I remember it very well, that sort of comment sticks in the memory.

[tyrone86]

Not, of course, that this semantic distinction makes a great deal of difference when placed in the context e.g. of Tyone GAA refusing permission for an Omagh bomb victims fundraiser at Healy Park, on the basis that such an event contravened the GAA's rules on being identified with "poilitical" events, so that the organisers had instead to use the much smaller St.Julian's Road (Omagh Town FC), thereby greatly reducing the amount raised. 

Wrong. It was because of (the old) Rule 42, there was nothing political about it. Indeed, despite the alteration of Rule 42 to allow Soccer and Rugby in Croker you still aren't allowed to play non GAA sport in any GAA grounds bar Croke Park

[Uladh]

What constitutes a paramilitary organisation now anyway? are sinn fein one such organisation? I thought big ian and peter were happy that the IRA are no longer operating?

[Evil Genius]

Not, of course, that this semantic distinction makes a great deal of difference when placed in the context e.g. of Tyone GAA refusing permission for an Omagh bomb victims fundraiser at Healy Park, on the basis that such an event contravened the GAA's rules on being identified with "poilitical" events, so that the organisers had instead to use the much smaller St.Julian's Road (Omagh Town FC), thereby greatly reducing the amount raised. 

Wrong. It was because of (the old) Rule 42, there was nothing political about it. Indeed, despite the alteration of Rule 42 to allow Soccer and Rugby in Croker you still aren't allowed to play non GAA sport in any GAA grounds bar Croke Park

You're quite correct about Rule 42 - my error. Nonetheless, I think it outrageous that GAA premises can be denied to an organisation which wants to stage a sports event to raise funds for entirely innocent victims of paramilitarism, some of them probably GAA fans themselves, whilst such premises are able to be rented by organisations which are "closely associated", shall we say, with the same (or similar) paramilitary organisations.

P.S. If we are going to be "picky", it is not "non GAA sport" per se which is banned, otherwise we would not have had e.g. American Football or Boxing allowed to be staged at GAA Grounds down the years.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

Not, of course, that this semantic distinction makes a great deal of difference when placed in the context e.g. of Tyone GAA refusing permission for an Omagh bomb victims fundraiser at Healy Park, on the basis that such an event contravened the GAA's rules on being identified with "poilitical" events, so that the organisers had instead to use the much smaller St.Julian's Road (Omagh Town FC), thereby greatly reducing the amount raised. 

Wrong. It was because of (the old) Rule 42, there was nothing political about it. Indeed, despite the alteration of Rule 42 to allow Soccer and Rugby in Croker you still aren't allowed to play non GAA sport in any GAA grounds bar Croke Park

You're quite correct about Rule 42 - my error. Nonetheless, I think it outrageous that GAA premises can be denied to an organisation which wants to stage a sports event to raise funds for entirely innocent victims of paramilitarism, some of them probably GAA fans themselves, whilst such premises are able to be rented by organisations which are "closely associated", shall we say, with the same (or similar) paramilitary organisations.

P.S. If we are going to be "picky", it is not "non GAA sport" per se which is banned, otherwise we would not have had e.g. American Football or Boxing allowed to be staged at GAA Grounds down the years.

While Rule 42 is not without it's merits in some situations, as a whole issues like the above show the fallacy of it.  It was disgraceful (and odd) that it was invoked in regard to the Healy Park incident.  I also find it strange as proceeds from the first Clare/Offaly replay in 1998 (over 1 million sterling) was donated by the GAA to the Omagh fund.

Either way I stand over the offensiveness and inaccuracy of SammyG's comment.

/Jim.

[Main Street]

"FUNCTION: Cork Republican Commemoration Committee, Christmas Fundraiser, featuring The Irish Brigade & Spirit of Freedom,Saturday 15th December 8pm at St.Finbarr's GAA club Togher Cork City, Táille €10."


and

"TERENCE MacSWINEY WEEKEND: 2.30-5pm Saturday 27 October, Ballyphehane Community Centre: 'Revolutionary Politics in Ireland: 1920 and today'. Contributions from Martin Ferris TD, Cllr. David Cullinane and Paul O'Connor, followed by open discussion. 8pm Blackrock GAA club 'A festival of Ballads' featuring The Irish Brigade, The Spirit of Freedom, Shebeen's Alan Quinn and Padraig Mór (ex Shebeen) Táille €10, tickets available from the Sinn Féin office 136 Barrack st Cork tel 021-4311389. 11am Sunday 28 October,  Historical Walk Through Rebel Cork. Guided tour of places in Cork City centre associated with people and events of the Tan war. Assemble at the Sinn Féin 136 Barrack St. 2.30pm: Annual Terence MacSwiney Commemoration, assemble at Ballyphehane Community Centre. March to the Republican Plot, St.Finbarr's cemetery, music and refreshments afterwards at Tom Lynch's bar Barrack St."

What is the problem with this event hiring out the rooms of the GAA?

The Republican Commemoration Committee is part and parcel of Irish life and history.
Republican dead have been honoured and will continue to be honoured by all strata of Irish life, politics and society.

But I can understand how the likes of  DUP bigot who has a hatred of Irish culture would just see a reflection of their own bile.  

[Boolerhead Mel]

I can't find any links but I am convinced that the GAA contributed the most money to the Omagh bomb fund. Unlike Omagh Town FC who if memory serves me correctly where investigated about missing funds. 

[feetofflames]

Can I just say that the unionist people have always been involved in the GAA, protestant persuasion as well, I know this for a fact because I am from a protestant family absolutely steeped in the GAA.  I have never suffered from political or sectarian overtones within the GAA.  Ill call it as I see it,  There are those who want the GAA to change to suit their thing, the GAA is uniquely Irish and is its own thing.  
Nothing is neutral any more - no more so than Windsor Park on a big match night, which I love and attend in equal; measure, and I know its not neutral.  England at Wembley is a bastion of nationalist  fervour,  Even football clubs like Man U and Liverpool would half kill each other for no obvious reason but their locality but they are not neutral.  So what are we the unionist community asking the GAA as a whole organisation to do - abandon the very principles that have made them great.  Im not part of Croke Park administratively but I know I dont want the GAA to change.   My view would be if you dont like their  thing then stay away, but dont try and change something that delivers much more positivity and uniqueness to Irish / N irish life than conceivably anything else.  Many of my unionist friends are curious and bewildered but many have seen my kids play the game, they know I sell fundraising items and they support that.  Its total passion, total sport, its not bland, definitely in no way religious or sectarian,  its not neutral either but what in life is in any domain, its the most inclusive and rewarding wonderful thing anybody on this island, Protestant, Catholic, polish, Lithuanian and English man could  be involved in.  Its time more of the protestant sons of Cuchulainn understood what their culture reallly is and formed their own clubs or got stuck right in the middle of others.  Some of us choose to sit outside but we are only marginalising ourselves and are the poorer for it.    We have become a people who watch and dont participate, take and dont contribute, soccor and rugby are sports which provide the telly and the glamour but feck  all else.  The GAA is controversial among other reasons because it stands still but by God it stands tall. You leave your house on a Sunday wrapped in your colours as opposed to the Englishman goes to the pub to shout their head off at the TV on a sunday, we actually stand on the sidelines, wave the flags, pick up the litter, kick the balls, referee and all.  Do we want to be associated with the shame of that supposed idealistic club in Manchester this week or do we want to improve our ciommunities.  I say there are a hell of a lot more unionists who wish to be or indeed are  part of the GAA than the unionist leaders would wish to acknowledge and it dilutes nothing of our ideals and certainly not least the craic amongst us all.    No more excuses.  

[tyrone86]

Not, of course, that this semantic distinction makes a great deal of difference when placed in the context e.g. of Tyone GAA refusing permission for an Omagh bomb victims fundraiser at Healy Park, on the basis that such an event contravened the GAA's rules on being identified with "poilitical" events, so that the organisers had instead to use the much smaller St.Julian's Road (Omagh Town FC), thereby greatly reducing the amount raised. 

Wrong. It was because of (the old) Rule 42, there was nothing political about it. Indeed, despite the alteration of Rule 42 to allow Soccer and Rugby in Croker you still aren't allowed to play non GAA sport in any GAA grounds bar Croke Park

You're quite correct about Rule 42 - my error. Nonetheless, I think it outrageous that GAA premises can be denied to an organisation which wants to stage a sports event to raise funds for entirely innocent victims of paramilitarism, some of them probably GAA fans themselves, whilst such premises are able to be rented by organisations which are "closely associated", shall we say, with the same (or similar) paramilitary organisations.

P.S. If we are going to be "picky", it is not "non GAA sport" per se which is banned, otherwise we would not have had e.g. American Football or Boxing allowed to be staged at GAA Grounds down the years.

Whilst not wishing to dance on the grave of the now departed OTFC, in hindsight & 10 years on, given the alleged shenanigans involved in those 3 friendlies, I'm glad that the GAA or Healy Park had nothing to do with them.