Still no place for gaelic games in NI state school sector

[thejuice]

I'd actually like to see a debate on this, on national TV, like Q&A, where we can get both sides to sit down. People like the teachers and parents in this case, Unionist party members, GAA representitives like people on the Ulster council, Nicky Brennan, Cumann na mBunscoil, Education ministers.

Get them to sit down and really talk about this case. It really needs to be addressed, we've had this debate a million times on here, but I dont recall much ever happening by the heads of the GAA or by anyone for that matter. No one has tackled the issue head on, people have just danced around it and used it as a political football when they needed it.

Its time to start visibly doing something rather than making the usual noises and doing nothing!

[SammyG]

I'd actually like to see a debate on this, on national TV, like Q&A, where we can get both sides to sit down. People like the teachers and parents in this case, Unionist party members, GAA representitives like people on the Ulster council, Nicky Brennan, Cumann na mBunscoil, Education ministers.

Get them to sit down and really talk about this case. It really needs to be addressed, we've had this debate a million times on here, but I dont recall much ever happening by the heads of the GAA or by anyone for that matter. No one has tackled the issue head, people have just danced around it and used it as a political football when they needed it.

Its time to start visibly doing something rather than making the usual noises and doing nothing!

Good call, would certainly be an interesting debate.

[Evil Genius]

I dont see why the GAA even bother?

Then why complain so loudly about lack of access, if it's all too much "bother"?

why should they bend over backwards just to let bigots play?

Actually, the "bigots" are never going to play. Rather, might you not consider "bending over" even a little way, to accommodate those more enlightened individuals like the Headmaster in question, who clearly does wish to see Gaelic games in his school? Or is it only he who must bend?

I have no problems with any other religions playing the sport,

It is not a question of religion, but politics. The GAA has a clearly partisan political ethos to it. Many Irish people have a problem with that.

why should they be made change the way things are?

Organisations normally change because they see a benefit in doing so. Imo, if the GAA were to change (remove) its political ethos and become purely a sporting and cultural organisation, it would benefitfrom the participation of a community of 1m Irish people who currently don't have anything really to do with the organisation.

i also read recently that unionists called for the national anthem to stop being played at GAA games?
are they having a laugh?

Like it or not, there are two National Anthems on this island. Now I personally don't feel it for non-GAA heads to tell the GAA what to do. However, so long as the GAA accords a special place to "The Soldiers Song", and none to GSTQ, then many people who consider the latter to be their anthem are liable to have ambivalent or troubled feelings towards the GAA. (Not that I think that the Anthem is a huge or insurmountable problem myself, btw)

[dublinfella]

I dont see why the GAA even bother?
why should they bend over backwards just to let bigots play?
I have no problems with any other religions playing the sport, but why should they be made change the way things are?
i also read recently that unionists called for the national anthem to stop being played at GAA games?
are they having a laugh?

Which is exactly the point Sammy is making.

If the GAA want to remain a culturally nationalist organisation that happens to play sport, fine. But the unionist community will remain alienated and the GAA will remain outside the state school system, as like it or not the ethos of the organisation is in conflict with the 6 county statelet.

What is more important to members in the north. The games and spreading them to new players or remaining the sporting wing of the independence movement?

I know most will go for the latter, so stop complaining when the Unionists don't want to join in on those terms. And that includes 'their' schools, for right or wrong.

[Uladh]

EG - reading those threads ain't my idea of a good time.

from the other side of the fence i can assume the following issues:

national anthem - i've no problem scrapping it
ground and club names - might take a bit of time to get through but agian, i'd have no problem renaming grounds and clubs which may be seen as offensive.

what have i missed?

[SammyG]

national anthem - i've no problem scrapping it
ground and club names - might take a bit of time to get through but agian, i'd have no problem renaming grounds and clubs which may be seen as offensive.

what have i missed?

You've missed the main one, the basic aim of the GAA from the first page of the guide, namely the promotion of a 32 county Ireland. Plus a few smaller ones, like hunger strike memorials, clubs being used for political fund raising etc.

[Uladh]

What have the GAA to do with hunger strike memorials?

individual premises the length and breadth of this and every country hold functions for all sorts of organisations on an ad hoc basis. nothing to do with gaa rules or ethos.

if the guide aspires to that then i'd have no problem amending it as with the national constitution. however, it will always be a 32 county organisation, like some political parties and every business on the island.

the fact that most members don't even know this is testament to how irrelevent it is to the actual playing of our games

[dublinfella]

What have the GAA to do with hunger strike memorials?

individual premises the length and breadth of this and every country hold functions for all sorts of organisations on an ad hoc basis. nothing to do with gaa rules or ethos.

if the guide aspires to that then i'd have no problem amending it as with the national constitution. however, it will always be a 32 county organisation, like some political parties and every business on the island.

the fact that most members don't even know this is testament to how irrelevent it is to the actual playing of our games

Hold on, you are trying to have it both ways here. The GAA centrally has power over what happens in club grounds, for example Rule 42 prohibits individual clubs renting their facilities to soccer or rugby and of course controls the purse strings. But then you claim the GAA has no control over what happens in these grounds when it comes to memorials or naming the places.

If the GAA wanted grounds neutral, they could enforce it with ease.

[SammyG]

What have the GAA to do with hunger strike memorials?

Casement Park (which was owned by the GAA the last time I checked) has been used for Hunger Strike memorials as have several club grounds.

individual premises the length and breadth of this and every country hold functions for all sorts of organisations on an ad hoc basis. nothing to do with gaa rules or ethos.

I thought the premises were all owned/controlled by the GAA. If they can stop a local soccer or rugby team using the ground surely they could also stop them being used for political purposes.

if the guide aspires to that then i'd have no problem amending it as with the national constitution. however, it will always be a 32 county organisation, like some political parties and every business on the island.

No problem with that at all.

the fact that most members don't even know this is testament to how irrelevent it is to the actual playing of our games

Indeed but we're constantly being told that the GAA is democratic and acts in the best interest of it's members etc so if nobody gives a flying one about the political stuff, then it should be easy to get rid of it.

[fred the red]

national anthem - i've no problem scrapping it
ground and club names - might take a bit of time to get through but agian, i'd have no problem renaming grounds and clubs which may be seen as offensive.

what have i missed?

You've missed the main one, the basic aim of the GAA from the first page of the guide, namely the promotion of a 32 county Ireland.

Would you hold a dislike to Discover Ireland for the same reason? 

Some people need to realise there is no ocean between the north and south of ireland.

[Evil Genius]

national anthem - i've no problem scrapping it
ground and club names - might take a bit of time to get through but agian, i'd have no problem renaming grounds and clubs which may be seen as offensive.

what have i missed?

You've missed the main one, the basic aim of the GAA from the first page of the guide, namely the promotion of a 32 county Ireland.

Would you hold a dislike to Discover Ireland for the same reason? 

When the GAA refers to the promotion of "a 32 county Ireland", they do so in a political sense, whereas when Discover Ireland does so, it does it in a geographical/tourist sense.

Some people need to realise there is no ocean between the north and south of ireland.

At the same time as they might recognise that there is a border between the north* and south of Ireland...


* - If the good people of Donegal will indulge me for the sake of my argument 

[fred the red]

national anthem - i've no problem scrapping it
ground and club names - might take a bit of time to get through but agian, i'd have no problem renaming grounds and clubs which may be seen as offensive.

what have i missed?

You've missed the main one, the basic aim of the GAA from the first page of the guide, namely the promotion of a 32 county Ireland.

Would you hold a dislike to Discover Ireland for the same reason? 

When the GAA refers to the promotion of "a 32 county Ireland", they do so in a political sense, whereas when Discover Ireland does so, it does it in a geographical/tourist sense.

Some people need to realise there is no ocean between the north and south of ireland.

At the same time as they might recognise that there is a border between the north* and south of Ireland...


* - If the good people of Donegal will indulge me for the sake of my argument 

Why did you feel the need to answer the question on Sammy's behalf?

He's a big boy you know 

[armaghniac]

At the same time as they might recognise that there is a border between the north* and south of Ireland...

I presume they do. However they operate in the same way North and South, why should a sport be partitioned, better to keep politics out of it.

[SammyG]

national anthem - i've no problem scrapping it
ground and club names - might take a bit of time to get through but agian, i'd have no problem renaming grounds and clubs which may be seen as offensive.

what have i missed?

You've missed the main one, the basic aim of the GAA from the first page of the guide, namely the promotion of a 32 county Ireland.

Would you hold a dislike to Discover Ireland for the same reason? 

If Discover Ireland had rules about supporting a United Ireland or started raising funds for political/paramilitary groups then yes I'd have a problem with them. Until that time then I'm happy to let them get on with doing a reasonably good job.

Some people need to realise there is no ocean between the north and south of ireland.

Fairly sure that everybody knows that, or if not they should get a map.

[fred the red]

There you go Sammy, print that out and stick it on your bedroom wall.

See if you can recall all 32 counties this time next week from memory