Alliance showing their true colours now

[muppet]

All this talk of religion in schools is nonsense, all schools teach the same curricula, including RE.

So why do we need different sectors then?

Some of us like the choice of not having our children educated as homogeneous Nornern Irish Brits.

I don't think schools teach children to be homogeneous Northern Irish Brits, I believe they teach other subjects.

Waiting on a reply from Tony about the catholic church being inclusive, I suppose it will be here when I wake up.....

I'd like to see a poll on how many real catholics there are on this board and how many catholics don't practice the things laid out by the church

Didn't do Hugh O'Neill any harm.

[Eamonnca1]

Waiting on a reply from Tony about the catholic church being inclusive, I suppose it will be here when I wake up.....

He's probably preparing the old "catholic schools teach children to respect protestants" defence.  It's as if respect for diversity is something you can learn from a book, rather than something you learn between classes in the corridor, the canteen and the playground when you're actually mingling with people from the other side.

[dec]

All this talk of religion in schools is nonsense, all schools teach the same curricula, including RE. Let's face it what Alliance want is for your children to be homogeneous Northern Irish Brits, end off.

Correct.

How will learning algebra or chemistry in the same room as a Protestant turn someone into a homogeneous Northern Irish Brit?

[T Fearon]

MR2 the catholic church is inclusive,open to one and all who accepts its beliefs.But what has that got to do with integrated education tackling sectarianism? Too many people on this thread venting anti Catholicism,and not dealing with the main issue,which is whether or not integrated education will reduce or eliminate sectarianism.

[cadence]

MR2 the catholic church is inclusive,open to one and all who accepts its beliefs.But what has that got to do with integrated education tackling sectarianism? Too many people on this thread venting anti Catholicism,and not dealing with the main issue,which is whether or not integrated education will reduce or eliminate sectarianism.

lmao.... the catholic church is "inclusive" is it! people from the LGBT community would hardly put the catholic church's beliefs towards them in that light. 

+ as opposed to segregated education which has done a marvelous job of eliminating sectarianism.

one trick pony. 

[Maguire01]

All this talk of religion in schools is nonsense, all schools teach the same curricula, including RE.

So why do we need different sectors then?

Some of us like the choice of not having our children educated as homogeneous Nornern Irish Brits.

Is that what happens in our local universities and FE colleges?

Anyway, as the argument goes, a United Ireland would not simply be a takeover by the 26 counties - similarly a proper state sector would reflect the diverse background of its pupils.

[Ulick]

All this talk of religion in schools is nonsense, all schools teach the same curricula, including RE.

So why do we need different sectors then?

Some of us like the choice of not having our children educated as homogeneous Nornern Irish Brits.

Is that what happens in our local universities and FE colleges?

Anyway, as the argument goes, a United Ireland would not simply be a takeover by the 26 counties - similarly a proper state sector would reflect the diverse background of its pupils.

FE and HE are not compulsory and will normally have an ethos centred on learning and scholarly study. Very different from primary and secondary education.

[T Fearon]

Cadence, I said it was open to all "who accept its beliefs". Members of the LGBT community do not accept its beliefs. Like it or not, the root of all Christian faiths are centred on the teachings of Christ and other biblical content, and again like it or not, these teachings, taking the lead from the bible, condemn homosexuality. If anything all protestant churches are more strident in their condemnation of the lifestyles of the LGBT community than the Catholic Church is, and to complain about any Christian church (never mind catholic) not being open to them is akin to complaining about the OO now allowing catholics to join. If you cant accept the rules then you cannot expect to be allowed to join, I'm afraid.

Once again this is irrelevant to the debate as to the value of integrated education in terms of reducing or eliminating sectarianism.

[supersarsfields]

Would this mean that GAA would become compulsory in state schools as part of the curriculum similar to soccer? And that Irish would have to be provided as an option for languages? Or would these be banished to extra-curriculum activities?
Would the compromise be all on the Catholic schools side? That they drop anything remotely connected to an Irish tradition without the state school modifying it's outlook to allow for the changed interests of it's new found students?

[Hardy]

MR2 the catholic church is inclusive,open to one and all who accepts its beliefs.But what has that got to do with integrated education tackling sectarianism? Too many people on this thread venting anti Catholicism,and not dealing with the main issue,which is whether or not integrated education will reduce or eliminate sectarianism.

It seems that many fear that it would.

[trueblue1234]

MR2 the catholic church is inclusive,open to one and all who accepts its beliefs.But what has that got to do with integrated education tackling sectarianism? Too many people on this thread venting anti Catholicism,and not dealing with the main issue,which is whether or not integrated education will reduce or eliminate sectarianism.

It seems that many fear that it would.

Do you believe people opposed to the abolishment of Catholic schooling are sectarian?

[Main Street]

  If schools are going to get taxpayer funding, they should be secular.
If churches want to ram their superstitious propaganda .....
Very hard to shift people's mindsets ...

Do people who have Religious beliefs not have to pay tax?

They do. And for their taxes, their children can access the education system, just like the rest. My point would be that if they demand a separate sector to accommodate their 'religious ethos', they can pay more.

Regardless of what faith a private school has, as long as it educates children to the standard the curriculum demands, then the state should be obliged to support those schools, to a similar extent that it supports state sector schools.
If parents want to have a Steiner secondary education, that school should receive the same pupil to teacher ratio financial support, plus building maintenance etc. Usually the Steiner people will do all the groundwork in establishing the school, making it work and raise extra funds. Such education establishments are less of a financial burden on the State, than 100% State run institutions. 
It's a boring world, if you just want to have a communist style imposed single State supported system of education.

Does the University sector or FE College sector seem boring or communist.

Is that a reply to my post?  I thought you might make an effort to explain yourself better and refrain from glib nonsense.
According to your way of thinking, there's only one system for primary and secondary education, the state's way and if you don't like it then pay for your own alternate choice.
I have invited you to examine the idea, that many different types of schools can exist in the State funded sector, teaching a similar curriculum with trained teachers. It won't cost the state any more to fund the teaching of these children than if they went to a 100% state built and run school.
Maybe you can expand on your point
"that if they demand a separate sector to accommodate their 'religious ethos', they can pay more."

[armaghniac]

Would this mean that GAA would become compulsory in state schools as part of the curriculum similar to soccer? And that Irish would have to be provided as an option for languages? Or would these be banished to extra-curriculum activities?
Would the compromise be all on the Catholic schools side? That they drop anything remotely connected to an Irish tradition without the state school modifying it's outlook to allow for the changed interests of it's new found students?

For many in this debate being Irish is a contentious thing, to be excluded from schools at all costs.
While I not sure about the Alliance proposal, which is probably well meaning but half baked, there are many State schools with declining enrolments who declare themselves "integrated" without actually being so in any actual sense.

[Hardy]

MR2 the catholic church is inclusive,open to one and all who accepts its beliefs.But what has that got to do with integrated education tackling sectarianism? Too many people on this thread venting anti Catholicism,and not dealing with the main issue,which is whether or not integrated education will reduce or eliminate sectarianism.

It seems that many fear that it would.

Do you believe people opposed to the abolishment of Catholic schooling are sectarian?

Not in the narrow sense in which the word is generally used - i.e. that they, as a characteristic of their group, hate, mistrust, avoid or discriminate against people who are not of their religion. But separating people by religion to administer their education (or for any purpose) is by definition sectarian in the broad sense.

[supersarsfields]

Would this mean that GAA would become compulsory in state schools as part of the curriculum similar to soccer? And that Irish would have to be provided as an option for languages? Or would these be banished to extra-curriculum activities?
Would the compromise be all on the Catholic schools side? That they drop anything remotely connected to an Irish tradition without the state school modifying it's outlook to allow for the changed interests of it's new found students?

For many in this debate being Irish is a contentious thing, to be excluded from schools at all costs.
While I not sure about the Alliance proposal, which is probably well meaning but half baked, there are many State schools with declining enrolments who declare themselves "integrated" without actually being so in any actual sense.

If that's the case, then I'd prefer they left it as is. Until we see movement on both sides to be inclusive then calling on one side to change is pointless. It has to be a joint effort and I think if this was the case and suddenly the idea of the GAA and aspects of Irish culture was to be pushed in State schools alongside British Culture then we will be hit with a whole new wave of complaints about the erosion of  "our" culture.