Sinn Fein's fractured relationship with PSNI vehicles

[Maguire01]

Oh the topic of Gerry kelly popped up today, i think to a man we agree he make a real dick of himself, you cant cry for months about protestors blocking roads and should be arrested and police enforce the law, when the shoe is on the foot he is of the case the same law does not apply to him, if we blocked a police land rover odds on we be arrested! Gerry mistakenly thinks that cause he is  in stormont and the policing board the police have to answer him on the streets, thats is not the law here, you still have to go through correct procedures, though our gerry think he still above the law

The PSNi are public servants...and as such are answerable (supposedly) don't forget that....Gerry Kelly is an elected representative and has the right to challenge the police behaviour.

Yes, but there are ways and means of challenging.

[Wildweasel74]

he cant challenge them directly in the middle of an operation apparently, the problem here is, elected representatives think they can butt in and make someone accountability on the spot, that law doesnt not exist here, never has!

[michaelg]

Can we all not agree that both GK and the driver were at fault and move on?

[Oraisteach]

EG, I've never had any sense of affiliation to SF, my closer connection being to the SDLP (though in that regard I feel a lot like Yann Martel's Pi adrift on flimsy raft attached to a lifeboat itself afloat on a wide wide sea).

Anyway, I was wondering whether, in your eyes, SF, or a representative of that group, is ever capable of commendable action or, instead, are they forever doomed to be balaclava-wearing armalite-toting terrorists?  I ask this in a week in which Nelson Mandela lies in a South African hospital bed in serious condition.  Do you see him as a vessel of peace or merely a perpetual ANC militant for whom Robben Island was his just desserts?

I have no particular link to or gra for Gerry Kelly, but I don't understand your disdain for him or your need to call him a d@*khead.  Going on nothing other than the video footage of the incident, I see an elected official acting in the interest of his constituents and defusing an otherwise volatile situation.  He, quite properly in my view, was seeking to discover what had happened to the kid who had been lifted but, more importantly, was asserting himself as a community leader, thereby cooling off a potentially explosive scenario.  That's what he was supposed to do, wasn't it?  The only chance of it getting out of hand came not from his standing in front of the Land Rover but from the idiotic driver's imbecilic urge to be a bulldozer-driving Mario Andretti.

As I see it, Kelly's actions were proper, reminiscent of my young days around Armagh when SDLP councillers had to intervene on behalf of mothers whose children had been lifted by the police, staving off impending riots.

Contrast his actions in dampening an incendiary situation with one William Fraser's bullhorn-wielding rabble-rousing antics outside Belfast City Hall around Christmas.  You're entitled to criticize SF, or anyone else for that matter, but I ask you to curb your exuberance when it's unwarranted.

On a separate note, welcome back from your sabbatical.  Like buzzards returning to Hinckley or swallows to Capistrano heralding the onset of spring, is it mere coincidence that your return overlaps with the kick-off of marching season?

[Nally Stand]

Oh the topic of Gerry kelly popped up today, i think to a man we agree he make a real dick of himself, you cant cry for months about protestors blocking roads and should be arrested and police enforce the law, when the shoe is on the foot he is of the case the same law does not apply to him, if we blocked a police land rover odds on we be arrested! Gerry mistakenly thinks that cause he is  in stormont and the policing board the police have to answer him on the streets, thats is not the law here, you still have to go through correct procedures, though our gerry think he still above the law

The PSNi are public servants...and as such are answerable (supposedly) don't forget that....Gerry Kelly is an elected representative and has the right to challenge the police behaviour.

Yes, but there are ways and means of challenging.

Like making a request to speak to an officer in charge, and giving the police in the landrover the opportunity to pull in when those inside it said they would? Only to see the landrover speed off? Had the police not lied in that moment, would Gerry Kelly have ended up on the grill of a landrover? I think not.

[Maguire01]

Had he not stood in front of it he wouldn't have ended up there either. When (or indeed if) the police lied, was that the best way he could have dealt with it? Could he not have just looked for the officer in charge, as he subsequently did? After all, the landrover with the lad who was arrested was gone by that stage so what was the point in stopping another one?

[T Fearon]

Michaelg, it was due to the driver of the landrover "moving on" that caused the problem in the first place.

[Applesisapples]

I'm not a SF Loyalist like Nally, however I do not believe that SF are any more empowered or confined by the Police Service than any of the rest of us. All Police services need to be held to account, but they can also operate within the authority granted to them by the laws they enforce. I've watched the GK video on numerous occasions now and whilst he in my opinion is a little over aggressive in his manner, like Alban Magennis I can see the situation and the tensions and what he was trying to avoid. The question must be rightly asked why arrest one 16 yo for provocative behaviour whilst ignoring the similar behaviour of the Brethren and the bands. A misjudgement by the officer concerned, and we all an make mistakes. In this instance it was compounded by the officer telling GK he would pull in but then doing the opposite...why lie? Just tell GK I'll see you down the nick. On the face of it the arrest was in contravention of police tactics over flags, and in that volatile environment could have led to violence being perceived by that community as bias. Context is everything. Personally I believe the PSNI do a great job on the whole. They don't get it all right, however you start losing the trust, sparse as it is of working class republican areas and SF support for Policing becomes more difficult to maintain.

I am not a SF voter but that in bold is absolute bollocks. Great job my arse.....they facilitated the loyalist flag protests...did not police it...and claimed it was for the greater good..bullshit. They are a bunch of halfwits with no clue...try ringing them if someone was breaking into your house...sorry no cars available...yet they can have 4 unmarked cars, 2 marked cars, 2 paddy wagons, 4 landrovers at the shambles in Armagh at chucking out time!

As I said a great job!
Seriously though they are a service under the same constraints as every other service in the current economic climate. They are not the Prods are Us RUC of old. Can they improve...yes but so can we all in our day jobs. I have no difficulty with how they policed the loyalist protests only that an individual officer decided that the Carrick Hill protests were to be policed differently.

[Applesisapples]

EG, I've never had any sense of affiliation to SF, my closer connection being to the SDLP (though in that regard I feel a lot like Yann Martel's Pi adrift on flimsy raft attached to a lifeboat itself afloat on a wide wide sea).

Anyway, I was wondering whether, in your eyes, SF, or a representative of that group, is ever capable of commendable action or, instead, are they forever doomed to be balaclava-wearing armalite-toting terrorists?  I ask this in a week in which Nelson Mandela lies in a South African hospital bed in serious condition.  Do you see him as a vessel of peace or merely a perpetual ANC militant for whom Robben Island was his just desserts?

I have no particular link to or gra for Gerry Kelly, but I don't understand your disdain for him or your need to call him a d@*khead.  Going on nothing other than the video footage of the incident, I see an elected official acting in the interest of his constituents and defusing an otherwise volatile situation.  He, quite properly in my view, was seeking to discover what had happened to the kid who had been lifted but, more importantly, was asserting himself as a community leader, thereby cooling off a potentially explosive scenario.  That's what he was supposed to do, wasn't it?  The only chance of it getting out of hand came not from his standing in front of the Land Rover but from the idiotic driver's imbecilic urge to be a bulldozer-driving Mario Andretti.

As I see it, Kelly's actions were proper, reminiscent of my young days around Armagh when SDLP councillers had to intervene on behalf of mothers whose children had been lifted by the police, staving off impending riots.

Contrast his actions in dampening an incendiary situation with one William Fraser's bullhorn-wielding rabble-rousing antics outside Belfast City Hall around Christmas.  You're entitled to criticize SF, or anyone else for that matter, but I ask you to curb your exuberance when it's unwarranted.

On a separate note, welcome back from your sabbatical.  Like buzzards returning to Hinckley or swallows to Capistrano heralding the onset of spring, is it mere coincidence that your return overlaps with the kick-off of marching season?

I would agree with a lot of what you say here and the fact that Alban Magennis backed him speaks volumes.

[Franko]

EG, I've never had any sense of affiliation to SF, my closer connection being to the SDLP (though in that regard I feel a lot like Yann Martel's Pi adrift on flimsy raft attached to a lifeboat itself afloat on a wide wide sea).

Anyway, I was wondering whether, in your eyes, SF, or a representative of that group, is ever capable of commendable action or, instead, are they forever doomed to be balaclava-wearing armalite-toting terrorists?  I ask this in a week in which Nelson Mandela lies in a South African hospital bed in serious condition.  Do you see him as a vessel of peace or merely a perpetual ANC militant for whom Robben Island was his just desserts?

I have no particular link to or gra for Gerry Kelly, but I don't understand your disdain for him or your need to call him a d@*khead.  Going on nothing other than the video footage of the incident, I see an elected official acting in the interest of his constituents and defusing an otherwise volatile situation.  He, quite properly in my view, was seeking to discover what had happened to the kid who had been lifted but, more importantly, was asserting himself as a community leader, thereby cooling off a potentially explosive scenario.  That's what he was supposed to do, wasn't it?  The only chance of it getting out of hand came not from his standing in front of the Land Rover but from the idiotic driver's imbecilic urge to be a bulldozer-driving Mario Andretti.

As I see it, Kelly's actions were proper, reminiscent of my young days around Armagh when SDLP councillers had to intervene on behalf of mothers whose children had been lifted by the police, staving off impending riots.

Contrast his actions in dampening an incendiary situation with one William Fraser's bullhorn-wielding rabble-rousing antics outside Belfast City Hall around Christmas.  You're entitled to criticize SF, or anyone else for that matter, but I ask you to curb your exuberance when it's unwarranted.

On a separate note, welcome back from your sabbatical.  Like buzzards returning to Hinckley or swallows to Capistrano heralding the onset of spring, is it mere coincidence that your return overlaps with the kick-off of marching season?

IIRC EG's little sabbatical began around the time of the fleg protests. I.e. Round about the time when he may have had a few difficult questions to answer.

[Count 10]

I'm not a SF Loyalist like Nally, however I do not believe that SF are any more empowered or confined by the Police Service than any of the rest of us. All Police services need to be held to account, but they can also operate within the authority granted to them by the laws they enforce. I've watched the GK video on numerous occasions now and whilst he in my opinion is a little over aggressive in his manner, like Alban Magennis I can see the situation and the tensions and what he was trying to avoid. The question must be rightly asked why arrest one 16 yo for provocative behaviour whilst ignoring the similar behaviour of the Brethren and the bands. A misjudgement by the officer concerned, and we all an make mistakes. In this instance it was compounded by the officer telling GK he would pull in but then doing the opposite...why lie? Just tell GK I'll see you down the nick. On the face of it the arrest was in contravention of police tactics over flags, and in that volatile environment could have led to violence being perceived by that community as bias. Context is everything. Personally I believe the PSNI do a great job on the whole. They don't get it all right, however you start losing the trust, sparse as it is of working class republican areas and SF support for Policing becomes more difficult to maintain.

I am not a SF voter but that in bold is absolute bollocks. Great job my arse.....they facilitated the loyalist flag protests...did not police it...and claimed it was for the greater good..bullshit. They are a bunch of halfwits with no clue...try ringing them if someone was breaking into your house...sorry no cars available...yet they can have 4 unmarked cars, 2 marked cars, 2 paddy wagons, 4 landrovers at the shambles in Armagh at chucking out time!

As I said a great job!
Seriously though they are a service under the same constraints as every other service in the current economic climate. They are not the Prods are Us RUC of old. Can they improve...yes but so can we all in our day jobs. I have no difficulty with how they policed the loyalist protests only that an individual officer decided that the Carrick Hill protests were to be policed differently.

So long as there are half-wits like you backing them then everything will be fine

[AhNowRef]

Well, well, how much further down is there for the Mighty to fall?

Thirty years ago, Republicans would have been using bombs and bullets to protect themselves from Police oppression.

Even 15 years ago (i.e. post-Ceasefire), it would have been bricks and barricades.

Yet now the best they can do is to send Gerry Kelly along to make a complete dick of himself on the bonnet of a police landrover, as he attempts to "spring" some wee spide who got lifted, and who was already half way to the Station in another landrover.

This from a man who assured us all that when the GFA was implemented and he got appointed to the Police Board etc, SF would then be in a position to put an end to political policing and oppression of Republicans etc.

Yet where is he now? When SF support the police, he/they are "sellouts", But when they stand up to them, they are compromising their commitment to the new system of Law and Order which they had negotiated.

And worst of all, poor Gerry appears to consider himself in greater danger on the front of a landrover driven by the PSNI, than he would have been in the back of one, in the days when the RUC were after him.

Still, I'm sure he can console himself with the fact that SF's ability to pull the wool over the eyes of the sheep who vote for them appears undiminished.

Baaa.

P.S. Any truth in the rumour that the PSNI have presented Carul Nee Gollum with a bill from the garage for the damage she caused when she got her teeth tangled in the grill on the front of another landrover?

Folks, I haven't posted here for years but I do pay the odd flying visit ..... I find it hard to believe that any of you give the above troll the time of day ... He has been jumping in and out of here for ages at his own convenience, trying to get a reaction and lapping it up every time he gets it.

Surely you all noticed that he conveniently disappeared last December when all the flag protests were on, bided his time and has just recently snuck back in when things have died down only to resume his bitter little rants against anything Nationalist/Republican (dare I say Catholic) again.  He hadn't the balls to stay about when some flak may have came his way so he waited patiently, probably still reading but not logging on or replying.

He gets a kick out of coming on here and winding ... Don't fall for it.. take this bitter little mans kicks away and he will soon wither up and die!!

I know its only a suggestion and its not easy not to reply to idiots like this but please have a bit of sense and don't feed this particularly nasty and intentionally hateful little troll !!  ...

[deiseach]

On a separate note, welcome back from your sabbatical.  Like buzzards returning to Hinckley or swallows to Capistrano heralding the onset of spring, is it mere coincidence that your return overlaps with the kick-off of marching season?

That's deep sh1t, man.

[Applesisapples]

I'm not a SF Loyalist like Nally, however I do not believe that SF are any more empowered or confined by the Police Service than any of the rest of us. All Police services need to be held to account, but they can also operate within the authority granted to them by the laws they enforce. I've watched the GK video on numerous occasions now and whilst he in my opinion is a little over aggressive in his manner, like Alban Magennis I can see the situation and the tensions and what he was trying to avoid. The question must be rightly asked why arrest one 16 yo for provocative behaviour whilst ignoring the similar behaviour of the Brethren and the bands. A misjudgement by the officer concerned, and we all an make mistakes. In this instance it was compounded by the officer telling GK he would pull in but then doing the opposite...why lie? Just tell GK I'll see you down the nick. On the face of it the arrest was in contravention of police tactics over flags, and in that volatile environment could have led to violence being perceived by that community as bias. Context is everything. Personally I believe the PSNI do a great job on the whole. They don't get it all right, however you start losing the trust, sparse as it is of working class republican areas and SF support for Policing becomes more difficult to maintain.

I am not a SF voter but that in bold is absolute bollocks. Great job my arse.....they facilitated the loyalist flag protests...did not police it...and claimed it was for the greater good..bullshit. They are a bunch of halfwits with no clue...try ringing them if someone was breaking into your house...sorry no cars available...yet they can have 4 unmarked cars, 2 marked cars, 2 paddy wagons, 4 landrovers at the shambles in Armagh at chucking out time!

As I said a great job!
Seriously though they are a service under the same constraints as every other service in the current economic climate. They are not the Prods are Us RUC of old. Can they improve...yes but so can we all in our day jobs. I have no difficulty with how they policed the loyalist protests only that an individual officer decided that the Carrick Hill protests were to be policed differently.

So long as there are half-wits like you backing them then everything will be fine

When argument fails resort to insults. There is nothing half witted about the rule of law. The PSNI are no worse than police forces across the world including the Garda...Humans in organisations make mistakes. They may not be perfect but its a big improvement and they are moving forward. If you can articulate where you disagree that would make for debate, but lay off the insults.

[Count 10]

I'm not a SF Loyalist like Nally, however I do not believe that SF are any more empowered or confined by the Police Service than any of the rest of us. All Police services need to be held to account, but they can also operate within the authority granted to them by the laws they enforce. I've watched the GK video on numerous occasions now and whilst he in my opinion is a little over aggressive in his manner, like Alban Magennis I can see the situation and the tensions and what he was trying to avoid. The question must be rightly asked why arrest one 16 yo for provocative behaviour whilst ignoring the similar behaviour of the Brethren and the bands. A misjudgement by the officer concerned, and we all an make mistakes. In this instance it was compounded by the officer telling GK he would pull in but then doing the opposite...why lie? Just tell GK I'll see you down the nick. On the face of it the arrest was in contravention of police tactics over flags, and in that volatile environment could have led to violence being perceived by that community as bias. Context is everything. Personally I believe the PSNI do a great job on the whole. They don't get it all right, however you start losing the trust, sparse as it is of working class republican areas and SF support for Policing becomes more difficult to maintain.

I am not a SF voter but that in bold is absolute bollocks. Great job my arse.....they facilitated the loyalist flag protests...did not police it...and claimed it was for the greater good..bullshit. They are a bunch of halfwits with no clue...try ringing them if someone was breaking into your house...sorry no cars available...yet they can have 4 unmarked cars, 2 marked cars, 2 paddy wagons, 4 landrovers at the shambles in Armagh at chucking out time!

As I said a great job!
Seriously though they are a service under the same constraints as every other service in the current economic climate. They are not the Prods are Us RUC of old. Can they improve...yes but so can we all in our day jobs. I have no difficulty with how they policed the loyalist protests only that an individual officer decided that the Carrick Hill protests were to be policed differently.

So long as there are half-wits like you backing them then everything will be fine

When argument fails resort to insults. There is nothing half witted about the rule of law. The PSNI are no worse than police forces across the world including the Garda...Humans in organisations make mistakes. They may not be perfect but its a big improvement and they are moving forward. If you can articulate where you disagree that would make for debate, but lay off the insults.

Ok enlighten me...what do you mean when you say the PSNI do a great job on the whole