Parking Ticket Question

[TabClear]

Is it still the case where these PCN letters aren't worth the paper they're printed on? Got one in March for Starplan carpark Boucher road belfast. It's a free carpark, but is "customer parking only"

Onto my 3rd letter now. They want £170(!) or it'll go to "QDR Solicitors Ltd".

Just want to be sure ignoring them is the way to deal with them. To hell with paying that sort of money for 30minutes parking. Of course I wasn't the driver at the time and refuse to divulge who was 

The letters will keep landing for around a year or so.  They'll eventually offer a reduced fee and if you ignore this they'll hike it up again. They'll threaten court action.  Few people pay.  Ignore and they'll stop eventually.

Weirdly received a letter from a debt recovery company today(actually they had sent it to my old address). 
             This was for a parking charge notice from 2016. I think at that time in 2016 they had sent me a number of letters which i ignored. Various threats of increasing charge, then decreasing it if i paid, then passing it on to their legal department who tried the same approach. Went for about 12 or 13 letters.
     This one is from a diiferent company but i expect it is the same lot.
       Anybody else received these?
         
       

Ring them, say the debt is not valid and this will be your only correspondence on the matter. Debt collectors are not to be ignored

Ringing them and discussing such matter is taking ownership of the debt however - do not ring

Ah the Board has missed a feud like this over the last few days with Sid and Angelo's sabbatical. If you two could turn this difference in opinion into a ten page thread hopefully throwing in fascism, racism, coronavirus, hypocrites and a few insults we would not need those two back. 

[grounded]

Is it still the case where these PCN letters aren't worth the paper they're printed on? Got one in March for Starplan carpark Boucher road belfast. It's a free carpark, but is "customer parking only"

Onto my 3rd letter now. They want £170(!) or it'll go to "QDR Solicitors Ltd".

Just want to be sure ignoring them is the way to deal with them. To hell with paying that sort of money for 30minutes parking. Of course I wasn't the driver at the time and refuse to divulge who was 

The letters will keep landing for around a year or so.  They'll eventually offer a reduced fee and if you ignore this they'll hike it up again. They'll threaten court action.  Few people pay.  Ignore and they'll stop eventually.

Weirdly received a letter from a debt recovery company today(actually they had sent it to my old address). 
             This was for a parking charge notice from 2016. I think at that time in 2016 they had sent me a number of letters which i ignored. Various threats of increasing charge, then decreasing it if i paid, then passing it on to their legal department who tried the same approach. Went for about 12 or 13 letters.
     This one is from a diiferent company but i expect it is the same lot.
       Anybody else received these?
         
       

Ring them, say the debt is not valid and this will be your only correspondence on the matter. Debt collectors are not to be ignored

Ringing them and discussing such matter is taking ownership of the debt however - do not ring

Yep. I didnt respond 5 years ago after about 13 letters issuing various threats of bailiffs, courts etc.  I assumed at that time they got my address from the dvla?
         In any event they sent this new demand letter to my old address. I just found it a bit weird that they would start again after about 5 years. Perhaps a new company took over?

  Anyhow thanks for the advice

[J70]

Would it not just be easier to just pay the 170 pound and never have to think about it again?

[Baile Brigín 2]

Is it still the case where these PCN letters aren't worth the paper they're printed on? Got one in March for Starplan carpark Boucher road belfast. It's a free carpark, but is "customer parking only"

Onto my 3rd letter now. They want £170(!) or it'll go to "QDR Solicitors Ltd".

Just want to be sure ignoring them is the way to deal with them. To hell with paying that sort of money for 30minutes parking. Of course I wasn't the driver at the time and refuse to divulge who was 

The letters will keep landing for around a year or so.  They'll eventually offer a reduced fee and if you ignore this they'll hike it up again. They'll threaten court action.  Few people pay.  Ignore and they'll stop eventually.

Weirdly received a letter from a debt recovery company today(actually they had sent it to my old address). 
             This was for a parking charge notice from 2016. I think at that time in 2016 they had sent me a number of letters which i ignored. Various threats of increasing charge, then decreasing it if i paid, then passing it on to their legal department who tried the same approach. Went for about 12 or 13 letters.
     This one is from a diiferent company but i expect it is the same lot.
       Anybody else received these?
         
       

Ring them, say the debt is not valid and this will be your only correspondence on the matter. Debt collectors are not to be ignored

Ringing them and discussing such matter is taking ownership of the debt however - do not ring

It absolutely is not. If they are a legitimate agency they will be pissed off with buying a dud debt and not wamt to waste their time on it.

But ignoring debt collectors can see them present at your door.

[grounded]

Would it not just be easier to just pay the 170 pound and never have to think about it again?

In my case its £160 and Under normal circumstances i'd hold my hands up and pay if i genuinely did something wrong.
        However in this case i think they're a shower of gougers.  I'd parked in the car park of a retail centre in Newry. I'd spent an hour or two(actually i was dragged along by the missus) shopping in a number of the surrounding shops belonging to it. I went into a restaurant beside it for lunch and came out to see a pcn stuck to the windscreen. It stated i had overstayed the max permitted time. The parking charge notice sticker itself was practically the same as what an official penalty charge notice looks like. Obviously to sucker people into paying. 
           The two signs displaying this information were tiny, one was positioned way up the wall and i actually couldnt read the writing. The other was hidden behind foliage. I actually took a few photographs at the time.
              As well as that, the 'fine' actually its an invoice was grossly disproportionate for the 15 mins or so i'd overstayed.
             They sent about 13 or so letters with various threats of court, bailiffs, bad credit ratings etc. The envelopes themselves had plainly visible unpaid debt and debt collection etc to i assume embarass people.
       The current one is from a crowd called direct collection balliffs limited certified baliffs and high court enforcement,  as seen on tv, can't pay we'll take it away..
           They've stated ' at this point you are no longer able to appeal this parking charge, you're next oppurtunity to dispute this charge would be if the matter is taken to court'
           In very tiny writing on the back 'this case is not subject to high court or baliff action'
           The postage cost of the 13 or 14 letters they've sent is the only silver lining.
         

[MK]

Would it not just be easier to just pay the 170 pound and never have to think about it again?

In my case its £160 and Under normal circumstances i'd hold my hands up and pay if i genuinely did something wrong.
        However in this case i think their a shower of gougers.  I'd parked in the car park of a retail centre in Newry. I'd spent an hour or two(actually i was dragged along by the missus) shopping in a number of the surrounding shops belonging to it. I went into a restaurant beside it for lunch and came out to see a pcn stuck to the windscreen. It stated i had overstayed the max permitted time. The parking charge notice sticker itself was practically the same as what an official penalty charge notice looks like. Obviously to sucker people into paying. 
           The two signs displaying this information were tiny, one was positioned way up the wall and i actually couldnt read the writing. The other was hidden behind foliage. I actually took a few photographs at the time.
              As well as that, the 'fine' actually its an invoice was grossly disproportionate for the 15 mins or so i'd overstayed.
             They sent about 13 or so letters with various threats of court, bailiffs, bad credit ratings etc. The envelopes themselves had plainly visible unpaid debt and debt collection etc to i assume embarass people.
       The current one is from a crowd called direct collection balliffs limited certified baliffs and high court enforcement,  as seen on tv, can't pay we'll take it away..
           They've stated ' at this point you are no longer able to appeal this parking charge, you're next oppurtunity to dispute this charge would be if the matter is taken to court'
           In very tiny writing on the back 'this case is not subject to high court or baliff action'
           The postage cost of the 13 or 14 letters they've sent is the only silver lining.
         

I would highly recommend that you should consult The N.I Consumer Council as they have dealt with a multitude of similar cases.

[David McKeown]

When I last got these they came from a few different firms but when I looked into them they were all registered to the same place. A scam of the highest order. If memory serves they didn't even tell me where I was supposed to have unlawfully parked.

[J70]

Would it not just be easier to just pay the 170 pound and never have to think about it again?

In my case its £160 and Under normal circumstances i'd hold my hands up and pay if i genuinely did something wrong.
        However in this case i think they're a shower of gougers.  I'd parked in the car park of a retail centre in Newry. I'd spent an hour or two(actually i was dragged along by the missus) shopping in a number of the surrounding shops belonging to it. I went into a restaurant beside it for lunch and came out to see a pcn stuck to the windscreen. It stated i had overstayed the max permitted time. The parking charge notice sticker itself was practically the same as what an official penalty charge notice looks like. Obviously to sucker people into paying. 
           The two signs displaying this information were tiny, one was positioned way up the wall and i actually couldnt read the writing. The other was hidden behind foliage. I actually took a few photographs at the time.
              As well as that, the 'fine' actually its an invoice was grossly disproportionate for the 15 mins or so i'd overstayed.
             They sent about 13 or so letters with various threats of court, bailiffs, bad credit ratings etc. The envelopes themselves had plainly visible unpaid debt and debt collection etc to i assume embarass people.
       The current one is from a crowd called direct collection balliffs limited certified baliffs and high court enforcement,  as seen on tv, can't pay we'll take it away..
           They've stated ' at this point you are no longer able to appeal this parking charge, you're next oppurtunity to dispute this charge would be if the matter is taken to court'
           In very tiny writing on the back 'this case is not subject to high court or baliff action'
           The postage cost of the 13 or 14 letters they've sent is the only silver lining.
       

I guess I misunderstood. 

From comments, it appears to be a scam. My bad.

[armaghniac]

It is like the TV licence, it supports your local.postman at a time when postal volumes are falling

[From the Bunker]

It is like the TV licence, it supports your local.postman at a time when postal volumes are falling

Online ordered Packets and Parcels are what supports your local postman. Mail is only an afterthought anymore!

[armaghniac]

It is like the TV licence, it supports your local.postman at a time when postal volumes are falling

Online ordered Packets and Parcels are what supports your local postman. Mail is only an afterthought anymore!

Online packets and parcels do not always come by the regular postman. Reminders from TV licence do.

[Applesisapples]

Would it not just be easier to just pay the 170 pound and never have to think about it again?

In my case its £160 and Under normal circumstances i'd hold my hands up and pay if i genuinely did something wrong.
        However in this case i think they're a shower of gougers.  I'd parked in the car park of a retail centre in Newry. I'd spent an hour or two(actually i was dragged along by the missus) shopping in a number of the surrounding shops belonging to it. I went into a restaurant beside it for lunch and came out to see a pcn stuck to the windscreen. It stated i had overstayed the max permitted time. The parking charge notice sticker itself was practically the same as what an official penalty charge notice looks like. Obviously to sucker people into paying. 
           The two signs displaying this information were tiny, one was positioned way up the wall and i actually couldnt read the writing. The other was hidden behind foliage. I actually took a few photographs at the time.
              As well as that, the 'fine' actually its an invoice was grossly disproportionate for the 15 mins or so i'd overstayed.
             They sent about 13 or so letters with various threats of court, bailiffs, bad credit ratings etc. The envelopes themselves had plainly visible unpaid debt and debt collection etc to i assume embarass people.
       The current one is from a crowd called direct collection balliffs limited certified baliffs and high court enforcement,  as seen on tv, can't pay we'll take it away..
           They've stated ' at this point you are no longer able to appeal this parking charge, you're next oppurtunity to dispute this charge would be if the matter is taken to court'
           In very tiny writing on the back 'this case is not subject to high court or baliff action'
           The postage cost of the 13 or 14 letters they've sent is the only silver lining.
       

That car park is notorious for this, a friend got one and was advised by their solicitor not to acknowledge or correspond with them on the matter.

[John Egans left boot]

Interesting case around this in UKSC called Parking Eye v Baevis (2015) sort of the authority in these matters in the UK. SC "made clear on all signage the full parking charge information including the exact costs of recovery."

Friend also told me a case ongoing in UKSC around no signage at entrance means he is arguing his client never aware entering into a valid contract until actually inside car park. Incorporation of  terms and conditions of entering into the car park must be done via notice at the front of the car park or building as per Olley v Malborough Court Hotel Ltd [1949] "A prominent public notice which is plain for him to see."

Hope this helps, if it is a UK matter of course 

[David McKeown]

Beavis is of no real relevance to Northern Ireland. A considerable number of the statutory provisions discussed therein do not exist here. Moreover and more particularly there is no statutory provision here that would allow the driver of the car to bind the owner of a car here to an enforceable contract (whereas there is in England and Wales). The problem that therefore arises for these parking management companies is that whilst they maybe able to get the details of car owners easily enough they have no power to compel information as to who the driver was. Therefore they are not able to bring a civil claim in Northern Ireland. That's why I always advise people not to respond and certainly never to admit they were driving at the time.

[John Egans left boot]

David I bow to your superior legal knowledge after all I have admired your work in the black gown and wig from afar. However is a Supreme Court finding not applicable to all areas of the uk ?

In terms of naming drivers Scotland either has implemented or is about to implement legislation on having to name the driver of car in relation to parking tickets. It maybe something that other devolved parliaments consider.

Both Edinburgh and Glasgow city council have  announced in recent days they have written of thousands of pounds in tickets.It is an interesting area

Here is an extract from Edinburgh story:

Edinburgh City Council has written off £1.3m of parking fines, after failing to collect more than 17,000 fixed penalty notices in the last 12 months.

The council also wrote off more than 3,200 fines accrued by motorists using bus lanes in the capital, worth £284,960.

The most common reasons for avoiding fines was due to the car being foreign.

In other cases the DVLA had no record of the vehicle or the owner was found to have no money or assets.

According to a report, due to be presented to councillors at a meeting of the finance committee on Thursday, more than 6,500 of the fines were also written off due to the owners having "gone away".