Has the intercounty system in football told us all it’s ever going to tell us?

Started by caprea, February 13, 2020, 05:38:52 AM

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LeoMc

Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 05:25:09 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 20, 2020, 05:22:22 PM
Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 05:18:34 PM
So a body that reports 70 million revenue in the current climate where Dublin are virtually unbeatable and most counties' fans don't go to games in numbers anymore can't support a professional game? Ireland is too small?

And the GAA won't open up grounds to the pro game? They would rather go bankrupt and in ruin because they can no longer service their debts due to have a annual hole in their accounts of 60-70 million?

Yes is basically your answer to both those questions?

The answer is in the constitution.

Whether you like it or not, it was devised to protect the interests of our members. I'm sure there are umpteen times central council would have love to rail against parts of it over the past 130 years, but that simply proves its purpose.

You can make up fantasy doomsday scenarios to your heart's content. But first you have to get past the constitution.

So Yes is your answer, members will stand by while their organisation goes into ruin because it's stadiums are empty?
Members up and down the Country will be at their local club watching club games which are not being held up by a few "elite" players. I would suggest any "elite" GPA funded player not togging out for his club will be getting short shift in his community.

caprea

Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2020, 10:03:30 AM
Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 05:25:09 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 20, 2020, 05:22:22 PM
Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 05:18:34 PM
So a body that reports 70 million revenue in the current climate where Dublin are virtually unbeatable and most counties' fans don't go to games in numbers anymore can't support a professional game? Ireland is too small?

And the GAA won't open up grounds to the pro game? They would rather go bankrupt and in ruin because they can no longer service their debts due to have a annual hole in their accounts of 60-70 million?

Yes is basically your answer to both those questions?

The answer is in the constitution.

Whether you like it or not, it was devised to protect the interests of our members. I'm sure there are umpteen times central council would have love to rail against parts of it over the past 130 years, but that simply proves its purpose.

You can make up fantasy doomsday scenarios to your heart's content. But first you have to get past the constitution.

So Yes is your answer, members will stand by while their organisation goes into ruin because it's stadiums are empty?
Members up and down the Country will be at their local club watching club games which are not being held up by a few "elite" players. I would suggest any "elite" GPA funded player not togging out for his club will be getting short shift in his community.
Not togging our for his county you mean?

He would be on his club team every week if the county game was on strike.

trueblue1234

Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 10:34:22 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2020, 10:03:30 AM
Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 05:25:09 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 20, 2020, 05:22:22 PM
Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 05:18:34 PM
So a body that reports 70 million revenue in the current climate where Dublin are virtually unbeatable and most counties' fans don't go to games in numbers anymore can't support a professional game? Ireland is too small?

And the GAA won't open up grounds to the pro game? They would rather go bankrupt and in ruin because they can no longer service their debts due to have a annual hole in their accounts of 60-70 million?

Yes is basically your answer to both those questions?

The answer is in the constitution.

Whether you like it or not, it was devised to protect the interests of our members. I'm sure there are umpteen times central council would have love to rail against parts of it over the past 130 years, but that simply proves its purpose.

You can make up fantasy doomsday scenarios to your heart's content. But first you have to get past the constitution.

So Yes is your answer, members will stand by while their organisation goes into ruin because it's stadiums are empty?
Members up and down the Country will be at their local club watching club games which are not being held up by a few "elite" players. I would suggest any "elite" GPA funded player not togging out for his club will be getting short shift in his community.
Not togging our for his county you mean?

He would be on his club team every week if the county game was on strike.

County game wouldn't be on strike. Some players would. There would be other players that would take their place. County games would go on. The "Elite" players might be a bit miffed for a while, and then come running back (Or not and it would continue with the players who do want to play).
Grammar: the difference between knowing your shit

Look-Up!

Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 10:34:22 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2020, 10:03:30 AM
Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 05:25:09 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 20, 2020, 05:22:22 PM
Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 05:18:34 PM
So a body that reports 70 million revenue in the current climate where Dublin are virtually unbeatable and most counties' fans don't go to games in numbers anymore can't support a professional game? Ireland is too small?

And the GAA won't open up grounds to the pro game? They would rather go bankrupt and in ruin because they can no longer service their debts due to have a annual hole in their accounts of 60-70 million?

Yes is basically your answer to both those questions?

The answer is in the constitution.

Whether you like it or not, it was devised to protect the interests of our members. I'm sure there are umpteen times central council would have love to rail against parts of it over the past 130 years, but that simply proves its purpose.

You can make up fantasy doomsday scenarios to your heart's content. But first you have to get past the constitution.

So Yes is your answer, members will stand by while their organisation goes into ruin because it's stadiums are empty?
Members up and down the Country will be at their local club watching club games which are not being held up by a few "elite" players. I would suggest any "elite" GPA funded player not togging out for his club will be getting short shift in his community.
Not togging our for his county you mean?

He would be on his club team every week if the county game was on strike.
Why does everything have to be the apocalyptic scenario with you?
I'm finding it hard to see under exactly what circumstances could the entire county game be on strike. Management teams and all players, both IC and club players, abandon the county scene. Something pretty untenable would have to have occurred.
But if it's just a few elite players wanting money to play and refusing to tog out and thinking they could hold the entire association to ransom, I think they'd get a dose of reality fairly quickly. They'd just be dropped from the panel and new lads brought in. And feck the much sympathy they'd get.

caprea

Quote from: Look-Up! on February 21, 2020, 10:50:24 AM
Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 10:34:22 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2020, 10:03:30 AM
Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 05:25:09 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 20, 2020, 05:22:22 PM
Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 05:18:34 PM
So a body that reports 70 million revenue in the current climate where Dublin are virtually unbeatable and most counties' fans don't go to games in numbers anymore can't support a professional game? Ireland is too small?

And the GAA won't open up grounds to the pro game? They would rather go bankrupt and in ruin because they can no longer service their debts due to have a annual hole in their accounts of 60-70 million?

Yes is basically your answer to both those questions?

The answer is in the constitution.

Whether you like it or not, it was devised to protect the interests of our members. I'm sure there are umpteen times central council would have love to rail against parts of it over the past 130 years, but that simply proves its purpose.

You can make up fantasy doomsday scenarios to your heart's content. But first you have to get past the constitution.

So Yes is your answer, members will stand by while their organisation goes into ruin because it's stadiums are empty?
Members up and down the Country will be at their local club watching club games which are not being held up by a few "elite" players. I would suggest any "elite" GPA funded player not togging out for his club will be getting short shift in his community.
Not togging our for his county you mean?

He would be on his club team every week if the county game was on strike.
Why does everything have to be the apocalyptic scenario with you?
I'm finding it hard to see under exactly what circumstances could the entire county game be on strike. Management teams and all players, both IC and club players, abandon the county scene. Something pretty untenable would have to have occurred.
But if it's just a few elite players wanting money to play and refusing to tog out and thinking they could hold the entire association to ransom, I think they'd get a dose of reality fairly quickly. They'd just be dropped from the panel and new lads brought in. And feck the much sympathy they'd get.

Why would management teams go on strike? They get paid in vast majority of cases.

Look-Up!

Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 10:54:28 AM
Quote from: Look-Up! on February 21, 2020, 10:50:24 AM
Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 10:34:22 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2020, 10:03:30 AM
Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 05:25:09 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 20, 2020, 05:22:22 PM
Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 05:18:34 PM
So a body that reports 70 million revenue in the current climate where Dublin are virtually unbeatable and most counties' fans don't go to games in numbers anymore can't support a professional game? Ireland is too small?

And the GAA won't open up grounds to the pro game? They would rather go bankrupt and in ruin because they can no longer service their debts due to have a annual hole in their accounts of 60-70 million?

Yes is basically your answer to both those questions?

The answer is in the constitution.

Whether you like it or not, it was devised to protect the interests of our members. I'm sure there are umpteen times central council would have love to rail against parts of it over the past 130 years, but that simply proves its purpose.

You can make up fantasy doomsday scenarios to your heart's content. But first you have to get past the constitution.

So Yes is your answer, members will stand by while their organisation goes into ruin because it's stadiums are empty?
Members up and down the Country will be at their local club watching club games which are not being held up by a few "elite" players. I would suggest any "elite" GPA funded player not togging out for his club will be getting short shift in his community.
Not togging our for his county you mean?

He would be on his club team every week if the county game was on strike.
Why does everything have to be the apocalyptic scenario with you?
I'm finding it hard to see under exactly what circumstances could the entire county game be on strike. Management teams and all players, both IC and club players, abandon the county scene. Something pretty untenable would have to have occurred.
But if it's just a few elite players wanting money to play and refusing to tog out and thinking they could hold the entire association to ransom, I think they'd get a dose of reality fairly quickly. They'd just be dropped from the panel and new lads brought in. And feck the much sympathy they'd get.

Why would management teams go on strike? They get paid in vast majority of cases.
Exactly, why would they? But in the scenario you're suggesting they'd have to otherwise the show goes on. Drop said players and pick new ones.

caprea

Quote from: Look-Up! on February 21, 2020, 10:57:58 AM
Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 10:54:28 AM
Quote from: Look-Up! on February 21, 2020, 10:50:24 AM
Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 10:34:22 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2020, 10:03:30 AM
Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 05:25:09 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 20, 2020, 05:22:22 PM
Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 05:18:34 PM
So a body that reports 70 million revenue in the current climate where Dublin are virtually unbeatable and most counties' fans don't go to games in numbers anymore can't support a professional game? Ireland is too small?

And the GAA won't open up grounds to the pro game? They would rather go bankrupt and in ruin because they can no longer service their debts due to have a annual hole in their accounts of 60-70 million?

Yes is basically your answer to both those questions?

The answer is in the constitution.

Whether you like it or not, it was devised to protect the interests of our members. I'm sure there are umpteen times central council would have love to rail against parts of it over the past 130 years, but that simply proves its purpose.

You can make up fantasy doomsday scenarios to your heart's content. But first you have to get past the constitution.

So Yes is your answer, members will stand by while their organisation goes into ruin because it's stadiums are empty?
Members up and down the Country will be at their local club watching club games which are not being held up by a few "elite" players. I would suggest any "elite" GPA funded player not togging out for his club will be getting short shift in his community.
Not togging our for his county you mean?

He would be on his club team every week if the county game was on strike.
Why does everything have to be the apocalyptic scenario with you?
I'm finding it hard to see under exactly what circumstances could the entire county game be on strike. Management teams and all players, both IC and club players, abandon the county scene. Something pretty untenable would have to have occurred.
But if it's just a few elite players wanting money to play and refusing to tog out and thinking they could hold the entire association to ransom, I think they'd get a dose of reality fairly quickly. They'd just be dropped from the panel and new lads brought in. And feck the much sympathy they'd get.

Why would management teams go on strike? They get paid in vast majority of cases.
Exactly, why would they? But in the scenario you're suggesting they'd have to otherwise the show goes on. Drop said players and pick new ones.

Ok if you think fans are going to appear to see a good Kerry club player over David Clifford then you're entitled to your opinion. I wouldn't agree.

LeoMc

Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 11:03:36 AM

Ok if you think fans are going to appear to see a good Kerry club player over David Clifford then you're entitled to your opinion. I wouldn't agree.

No player is bigger than the team. If Clifford was injured people will go to watch Kerry. If Clifford goes on strike people will go to watch Kerry. The only difference will be the level of sympathy he gets on the streets.

trueblue1234

Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 11:03:36 AM
Quote from: Look-Up! on February 21, 2020, 10:57:58 AM
Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 10:54:28 AM
Quote from: Look-Up! on February 21, 2020, 10:50:24 AM
Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 10:34:22 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2020, 10:03:30 AM
Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 05:25:09 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 20, 2020, 05:22:22 PM
Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 05:18:34 PM
So a body that reports 70 million revenue in the current climate where Dublin are virtually unbeatable and most counties' fans don't go to games in numbers anymore can't support a professional game? Ireland is too small?

And the GAA won't open up grounds to the pro game? They would rather go bankrupt and in ruin because they can no longer service their debts due to have a annual hole in their accounts of 60-70 million?

Yes is basically your answer to both those questions?

The answer is in the constitution.

Whether you like it or not, it was devised to protect the interests of our members. I'm sure there are umpteen times central council would have love to rail against parts of it over the past 130 years, but that simply proves its purpose.

You can make up fantasy doomsday scenarios to your heart's content. But first you have to get past the constitution.

So Yes is your answer, members will stand by while their organisation goes into ruin because it's stadiums are empty?
Members up and down the Country will be at their local club watching club games which are not being held up by a few "elite" players. I would suggest any "elite" GPA funded player not togging out for his club will be getting short shift in his community.
Not togging our for his county you mean?

He would be on his club team every week if the county game was on strike.
Why does everything have to be the apocalyptic scenario with you?
I'm finding it hard to see under exactly what circumstances could the entire county game be on strike. Management teams and all players, both IC and club players, abandon the county scene. Something pretty untenable would have to have occurred.
But if it's just a few elite players wanting money to play and refusing to tog out and thinking they could hold the entire association to ransom, I think they'd get a dose of reality fairly quickly. They'd just be dropped from the panel and new lads brought in. And feck the much sympathy they'd get.

Why would management teams go on strike? They get paid in vast majority of cases.
Exactly, why would they? But in the scenario you're suggesting they'd have to otherwise the show goes on. Drop said players and pick new ones.

Ok if you think fans are going to appear to see a good Kerry club player over David Clifford then you're entitled to your opinion. I wouldn't agree.

There might be a bit of an impact in viewing number but fairly insignificant. So the GAA might lose a small bit of revenue (I'd actually debate that the impact would be negligible). You think they would pick making a huge structural change that would change the ethos of the organisation than taking a potential tiny hit on revenue? I'm sorry but it's crazy to think that would be the case. 
Grammar: the difference between knowing your shit

caprea

So people will pay 100 euro for an all Ireland final ticket between Kerry and Dublin Junior teams?

Look-Up!

Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 11:03:36 AM


Ok if you think fans are going to appear to see a good Kerry club player over David Clifford then you're entitled to your opinion. I wouldn't agree.
I'm sure Kerry people attended games before Clifford came on the scene.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions but there has to be a bit of facts behind them.
The way you're backing up yours are fairly fanciful sometimes if you don't mind me saying and how you're coming up with your numbers are just pie in the sky. You make no allowances of where money will come for administration, logistics or capital after you've paid these elite.
You actually added in grant money from the GAA for pro game revenue. Come on. And you allowed 40K for backroom as a budget and called yourself generous. After employers tax you're talking 35K. I'd love to see the job advertisement for the team doctor or physio. Highly qualified, minimum 5 years experience in similar field, fully registered, possess indemnity insurance, be very flexible, give up weekends, no medical or dental provided. No time wasters please. What would be the deal sealer? Free leftover ham sandwiches after the team have finished their lunch?

caprea

Quote from: Look-Up! on February 21, 2020, 12:05:04 PM
Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 11:03:36 AM


Ok if you think fans are going to appear to see a good Kerry club player over David Clifford then you're entitled to your opinion. I wouldn't agree.
I'm sure Kerry people attended games before Clifford came on the scene.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions but there has to be a bit of facts behind them.
The way you're backing up yours are fairly fanciful sometimes if you don't mind me saying and how you're coming up with your numbers are just pie in the sky. You make no allowances of where money will come for administration, logistics or capital after you've paid these elite.
You actually added in grant money from the GAA for pro game revenue. Come on. And you allowed 40K for backroom as a budget and called yourself generous. After employers tax you're talking 35K. I'd love to see the job advertisement for the team doctor or physio. Highly qualified, minimum 5 years experience in similar field, fully registered, possess indemnity insurance, be very flexible, give up weekends, no medical or dental provided. No time wasters please. What would be the deal sealer? Free leftover ham sandwiches after the team have finished their lunch?

Clifford plus the other 25 players he plays with.

I costed the fee for managers to waterboys at 40,000 a year with 10 in each of the 12  management structure. I costed the average salary of a player to be an extremely generous 70000 a player for 35 players in 12 teams .

The only way these figures might be termed fanciful is that they are extremely generous as starting salaries.

trueblue1234

Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 12:00:23 PM
So people will pay 100 euro for an all Ireland final ticket between Kerry and Dublin Junior teams?

It will be the Kerry and Dublin senior teams. With the best available talent. There's always some players who make themselves unavailable. I don't know a single person who would stop attending a game because certain players wasn't playing. If by your view all the players for all the teams decided to strike (Which would never happen), and the GAA replaced the players with the best available, the AI final between Dublin and Kerry would still sell out. I have no doubt of that. And it would still be Sam Maguire they win, and the supporters would still celebrate the win as much as any.

Grammar: the difference between knowing your shit

caprea

Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2020, 12:14:30 PM
Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 12:00:23 PM
So people will pay 100 euro for an all Ireland final ticket between Kerry and Dublin Junior teams?

It will be the Kerry and Dublin senior teams. With the best available talent. There's always some players who make themselves unavailable. I don't know a single person who would stop attending a game because certain players wasn't playing. If by your view all the players for all the teams decided to strike (Which would never happen), and the GAA replaced the players with the best available, the AI final between Dublin and Kerry would still sell out. I have no doubt of that. And it would still be Sam Maguire they win, and the supporters would still celebrate the win as much as any.

So fans will pay 100 euro to see Kerry and Dublin's current junior teams play for Sam maguire in a packed Croker?

caprea

Just as a point, strikes are commonly seen in GAA, cork hurlers and footballers, Galway hurlers, mayo footballers, limerick Hurlers, possibly Waterford hurlers aswell all refused to play on account of managers they didn't like, how managers were appointed, welfare conditions.

Strikes are nothing new.