Has the intercounty system in football told us all it’s ever going to tell us?

[Look-Up!]

Caprea. You came on here asking people to read your blog and give their opinions. Many have done so to the subject asked, very reasonable replies IMO, but you haven't shown the courtesy to answer one straight simple question put to you many times on how this setup would work or where the revenue would come from. You now seem to have gotten you back up and keep harping on about some €70m figure as if it would go up in a puff of smoke if a few IC players refused to don the boots. I don't believe it's possible to have a reasonable discussion with you. So for that reason I'm out.

[caprea]

Caprea. You came on here asking people to read your blog and give their opinions. Many have done so to the subject asked, very reasonable replies IMO, but you haven't shown the courtesy to answer one straight simple question put to you many times on how this setup would work or where the revenue would come from. You now seem to have gotten you back up and keep harping on about some €70m figure as if it would go up in a puff of smoke if a few IC players refused to don the boots. I don't believe it's possible to have a reasonable discussion with you. So for that reason I'm out.

Ok, I think you're being a thin skinned. You posted something that I argued against and then When I did that you said I was going on a tangent (for replying to your argument). Just found that a bit baffling..

[caprea]

So a body that reports 70 million revenue in the current climate where Dublin are virtually unbeatable and most counties' fans don't go to games in numbers anymore can't support a professional game? Ireland is too small?

And the GAA won't open up grounds to the pro game? They would rather go bankrupt and in ruin because they can no longer service their debts due to have a annual hole in their accounts of 60-70 million?

Yes is basically your answer to both those questions?

The answer is in the constitution.

Whether you like it or not, it was devised to protect the interests of our members. I'm sure there are umpteen times central council would have love to rail against parts of it over the past 130 years, but that simply proves its purpose.

You can make up fantasy doomsday scenarios to your heart's content. But first you have to get past the constitution.

So Yes is your answer, members will stand by while their organisation goes into ruin because it's stadiums are empty?

The constitution is designed to prevent knee jerk decisions, and designed to prevent a minority of members changing the direction of the organisation for their own needs.

That is something very, very different to "standing back and watching while their organisation goes to ruin".

By the way I don't know want planet you're from. But it seems to be a planet in which one day Paul Flynn leads a strike, and the next day the GAA, with its hundreds of thousand of members, and thousands of clubs, is burning to the ground. I don't want to visit that planet. It's far too swift, volatile and conclusive to be anything like here on Earth.

So the GAA's members will not bow to the wishes of the elite players and hence will go into ruin/ become financially insolvent because their 60-70 million revenue from the county game will be gone?

We can't really move on with the argument until you address this.

Your reply above is rhetoric but it doesn't address how the GAA would meet things like their repayments on Pairc Ui caoimh without the money from the county game, the sponsorship of the county game, the TV deals of the county game.

[Look-Up!]

It was actually a tongue in cheek reply but no harm.
And the "rhetoric" Wobbler posted I actually found very funny and on the money.
No worries. But I think the only one having an issue moving on to a proper discussion is you.

[trueblue1234]

So a body that reports 70 million revenue in the current climate where Dublin are virtually unbeatable and most counties' fans don't go to games in numbers anymore can't support a professional game? Ireland is too small?

And the GAA won't open up grounds to the pro game? They would rather go bankrupt and in ruin because they can no longer service their debts due to have a annual hole in their accounts of 60-70 million?

Yes is basically your answer to both those questions?

The answer is in the constitution.

Whether you like it or not, it was devised to protect the interests of our members. I'm sure there are umpteen times central council would have love to rail against parts of it over the past 130 years, but that simply proves its purpose.

You can make up fantasy doomsday scenarios to your heart's content. But first you have to get past the constitution.

So Yes is your answer, members will stand by while their organisation goes into ruin because it's stadiums are empty?

The constitution is designed to prevent knee jerk decisions, and designed to prevent a minority of members changing the direction of the organisation for their own needs.

That is something very, very different to "standing back and watching while their organisation goes to ruin".

By the way I don't know want planet you're from. But it seems to be a planet in which one day Paul Flynn leads a strike, and the next day the GAA, with its hundreds of thousand of members, and thousands of clubs, is burning to the ground. I don't want to visit that planet. It's far too swift, volatile and conclusive to be anything like here on Earth.

So the GAA's members will not bow to the wishes of the elite players and hence will go into ruin/ become financially insolvent because their 60-70 million revenue from the county game will be gone?

We can't really move on with the argument until you address this.

Your reply above is rhetoric but it doesn't address how the GAA would meet things like their repayments on Pairc Ui caoimh without the money from the county game, the sponsorship of the county game, the TV deals of the county game.

The elite players will be replaced by people who want to play the intercounty game for the love of it. The GAA may loss some revenue due to some stars not being involved in the short term but will continue in the same vain and soon the elite will realise they don't have the power. Most will come back again, some won't, but will be replaced. This is more likely than giving into the elite player demands. And the way I would want it to go.

[thewobbler]

Oh ffs caprea would you please try to apply some logic and fact instead of continually emptying out the same abysmal and ungrounded fantasy doomsday notion as your stock reply?

It's like talking to a robot who has been programmed not to analyse, but only to repeat.

——

Gate receipts were €36m last year. That's from over 200 games in hurling and football. Take out the all Ireland finals and the football replay, and it's going to be closer to £20m revenue from 200 games. REVENUE not profit. About €100k a game on average REVENUE from a loyal support based upon county lines and birthrights.

If you think that this loss of turnover would be absolutely destructive to the GAA, but at the same time, believe that this level of turnover, less costs, could support upwards on 400 professionals, then put simply you are absolutely f**king nuts.

[caprea]

Oh ffs caprea would you please try to apply some logic and fact instead of continually emptying out the same abysmal and ungrounded fantasy doomsday notion as your stock reply?

It's like talking to a robot who has been programmed not to analyse, but only to repeat.

——

Gate receipts were €36m last year. That's from over 200 games in hurling and football. Take out the all Ireland finals and the football replay, and it's going to be closer to £20m revenue from 200 games. REVENUE not profit. About €100k a game on average REVENUE from a loyal support based upon county lines and birthrights.

If you think that this loss of turnover would be absolutely destructive to the GAA, but at the same time, believe that this level of turnover, less costs, could support upwards on 400 professionals, then put simply you are absolutely f**king nuts.

You're angry because you know you didn't have a satisfactory answer for the question of would the GAA vote themselves into financially insolvency.

Anyway, costing wise to cover 35 players and 10 staff For 12 teams you'd need to find about 35 million assuming an average salary of 70k a year For players and 40k for coaches. That's fairly generous.

You immediately find 6 million of that easily because the Annual grant of 6 million from GAA to GPA is gone so 29 million for the "talent". Agreed?

[thewobbler]

And with a reduced number of games, all of which would incur a stadium rental fee, you expect €29m of clear profit (not revenue) to appear, to cover direct salaries alone?

You're really not getting these numbers at all.

I might as well talk Chinese to a fish.

[Look-Up!]

And with a reduced number of games, all of which would incur a stadium rental fee, you expect €29m of clear profit (not revenue) to appear, to cover direct salaries alone?

You're really not getting these numbers at all.

I might as well talk Chinese to a fish.

Peter Jones would be scratching his head!!!!

[caprea]

And with a reduced number of games, all of which would incur a stadium rental fee, you expect €29m of clear profit (not revenue) to appear, to cover direct salaries alone?

You're really not getting these numbers at all.

I might as well talk Chinese to a fish.

Ok so you agree with my figure of 29 million I take it? I don't get the stadium rental fee you're talking about. Who are they going to be renting off?

But moving on, So Dublin GAA's accounts show last year that they've an income of 5.24 million, https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/dublin-gaas-annual-commercial-income-breaks-through-the-2m-barrier-38779148.html . Dublin are a great example of a professional outfit because unlike any other county they do almost no fundraising. Fundraising would not exist in the pro era, so as I say Dublin are a great example for seeing how the game could go pro.

So let's look at their income of 5.24 million and the new system is budgeted for 12 teams that are comparable in size to Dublin. So let's say they each have a income far under 5 million. Say 3 million. 3 million by 12 teams equals 36 million. Now of course Dublin have expenditure as well which we will come to as well.

Are you with me so far?

[thewobbler]

STADIUM RENTAL 101
Who is going to prepare the pitch?
Who is going to clean and prep the stadium?
Who has operational control before before, during and after the match?
Who does ticketing?
Who does stewarding?
Who does catering?
Who cleans up afterwards?
Who installs and removes the marketing signage for the pro league?

How would insurance work for spectators?
How would medical care work for spectators?
Where does pro-team-Dublin set up its shop to sell gear?

——-

Surely you don't expect any of this to come free?

[thewobbler]

I'm also at a complete f**king loss, a complete f**king loss as to why you keep talking about potential income as though it's accrued without expenses.


If you're now going to tell me that pro-GAA would be able to secure a better tv rights deal than the current GAA deal (which guarantees TV two of its biggest paydays per year, and half a dozen very good ones), then I'm done with you completely.

[Look-Up!]

I reckon each team would need 10M per year to fund themselves. That's 120M for the pro game. The amateur game would still need revenue and to be run separate from this figure. So you're talking trebling the current GAA market cap.
Then you would need to have 35% for wages and somehow run everything else off the remainder and hope to not go broke. New/rented stadia and training facilities would most certainly have to be factored in to the 65%.
You'd need average attendance of about 25000 for a 22 game season plus TV monies/sponsorship to get to 120M charging punters €30 entry.
This is assuming everything run to absolute maximum efficiency.
So yeah, no worries. Build it. Sure someone might come.

[From the Bunker]

Many look to Rugby as a template for having a professional GAA in this country.

Rugby have 4 professional Clubs. It in turn piggybacks on Clubs from Scotland, Wales and Italy for a domestic League. Rugby have Scotland, Wales, Italy, France and England for a European Cup competition. They also have a International options the six Nations, winter tests and the World Cup every 4 years. With all of these Irish Rugby can generate revenue from fans outside of Ireland. All of GAA revenue has to be generated from within Ireland and we just don't have the population on our own to sustain a professional game.

[Look-Up!]

Many look to Rugby as a template for having a professional GAA in this country.

Rugby have 4 professional Clubs. It in turn piggybacks on Clubs from Scotland, Wales and Italy for a domestic League. Rugby have Scotland, Wales, Italy, France and England for a European Cup competition. They also have a International options the six Nations, winter tests and the World Cup every 4 years. With all of these Irish Rugby can generate revenue from fans outside of Ireland. All of GAA revenue has to be generated from within Ireland and we just don't have the population on our own to sustain a professional game.

Yep. I think the IRFU takes in close to 100M. About 85% funds the pro game. 4 teams plus the international. I'd imagine the 6 Nations brings in a fair chunk.