Connacht Minor, U-20 and Junior championships 2020

Started by Farrandeelin, April 25, 2018, 08:59:26 PM

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Rossfan

Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Captain Obvious

Quote from: Rossfan on May 31, 2018, 06:44:32 PM
This championship and its rules were voted in by Congress.
Are you one of those lads that trusts everything that was voted in and never questions how it got voted in?




Zulu

#152
Quote from: Syferus on May 31, 2018, 06:00:01 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 31, 2018, 05:45:17 PM
Why do the best players need to play? Lads get injured, refuse to play or go travelling yet we don't hold up competitions until they return. If a professional sports person can make their senior team they aren't expected to play underage and nobody complains. Why should we be different when those players already have club, county and probably university and some would have that for hurling as well?

The GAA have got this absolutely correct IMO. The format and the timing might need to be addressed but we definitely need to end the concept of players playing with multiple teams.

Zulu in lala land on things that benefit (or hurt less) big counties. Imagine that.

Syferus, if I was in LaLa land I'd be bumping into you all the time. So what if stronger counties can take the hit more? At some point we have to do the best thing for players longterm and realise that there aren't perfect solutions. Offaly have chosen to keep their best player for U20 yet Kerry are doing the opposite. Offaly seniors can still get 10 to 15 years out of all their best young players without them ever not playing for their U20's when they're eligible.

Zulu

Quote from: Blowitupref on May 31, 2018, 06:16:31 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 31, 2018, 05:45:17 PM
Why do the best players need to play? Lads get injured, refuse to play or go travelling yet we don't hold up competitions until they return. If a professional sports person can make their senior team they aren't expected to play underage and nobody complains. Why should we be different when those players already have club, county and probably university and some would have that for hurling as well?

The GAA have got this absolutely correct IMO. The format and the timing might need to be addressed but we definitely need to end the concept of players playing with multiple teams.

Because it will become more like a pre-season competition than a championship without its best players. Dublin like to flex their muscles but this isn't a professional sports game and we shouldn't have a situation which penalises the smaller counties very heavily.

Weaker counties can have a decent starting 15 and challenge for a provincial title but take away 2 or 3 of their better players and they will struggle to win any game in their province. Training on multiple teams is what was needed to be addressed not playing on multiple teams especially on U20 Connacht championship team that is knock football and could be just one game.

Ah here! There's no way it will be like a pre-season competition. Young lads playing for their county treating it as a pre-season tournament because they are (maybe) missing one or two players who are with the seniors, you can't really believe that? The majority know this will be their last inter county team and a few will be hoping it showcases their talents to the senior management.

This isn't penalising the weaker counties, all counties have to make a choice. Why can't weaker counties decide to allow 19 and 20 year olds play U20? Will Leitrim, Waterford or many other senior teams do way better due to 2 or 3 20 year olds?


It is utterly daft to play any inter county underage competition on a knockout basis. Sort that and you sort the problems. Give games to players. Simple.

Syferus

Quote from: Zulu on May 31, 2018, 11:34:27 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 31, 2018, 06:16:31 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 31, 2018, 05:45:17 PM
Why do the best players need to play? Lads get injured, refuse to play or go travelling yet we don't hold up competitions until they return. If a professional sports person can make their senior team they aren't expected to play underage and nobody complains. Why should we be different when those players already have club, county and probably university and some would have that for hurling as well?

The GAA have got this absolutely correct IMO. The format and the timing might need to be addressed but we definitely need to end the concept of players playing with multiple teams.

Because it will become more like a pre-season competition than a championship without its best players. Dublin like to flex their muscles but this isn't a professional sports game and we shouldn't have a situation which penalises the smaller counties very heavily.

Weaker counties can have a decent starting 15 and challenge for a provincial title but take away 2 or 3 of their better players and they will struggle to win any game in their province. Training on multiple teams is what was needed to be addressed not playing on multiple teams especially on U20 Connacht championship team that is knock football and could be just one game.

Ah here! There's no way it will be like a pre-season competition. Young lads playing for their county treating it as a pre-season tournament because they are (maybe) missing one or two players who are with the seniors, you can't really believe that? The majority know this will be their last inter county team and a few will be hoping it showcases their talents to the senior management.

This isn't penalising the weaker counties, all counties have to make a choice. Why can't weaker counties decide to allow 19 and 20 year olds play U20? Will Leitrim, Waterford or many other senior teams do way better due to 2 or 3 20 year olds?


It is utterly daft to play any inter county underage competition on a knockout basis. Sort that and you sort the problems. Give games to players. Simple.

That you'd even ask that question shows how little you understand or care to understand the GAA outside of the big counties.

Zulu

Again another comment from you that says nothing. You dismissed Carlow and when they showed you up you couldn't even give them a bit of credit. You're no friend of the weaker counties that's for sure.

For the craic, tell which counties would do significantly better with their U20's? And if you know of any, tell me why they can't have those players?

Syferus

Quote from: Zulu on June 01, 2018, 12:11:47 AM
Again another comment from you that says nothing. You dismissed Carlow and when they showed you up you couldn't even give them a bit of credit. You're no friend of the weaker counties that's for sure.

For the craic, tell which counties would do significantly better with their U20's? And if you know of any, tell me why they can't have those players?

You only need to leaf back a page to see one. But sure talking out of your hole and supporting elitism is much easier to do.

Zulu

So you can't name any. Thought so. However, interesting to hear you think Sligo would beat Galway and Roscommon with a few extra 20 year olds.

Ball Hopper

In Munster, Limerick and Waterford senior footballers could be done for the year on 9 June.  If any U20's play in either of the senior games, they are ineligible for the U20 team.

Both Limerick and Waterford play their first U20 game later in June, Limerick on 15 and Waterford on 22 June.

They could push the U20 competition back a few weeks and any U20 who has played senior, can play with the U20's only if the seniors are out of the AI championship. 

Blowitupref

Quote from: Zulu on June 01, 2018, 12:26:56 AM
So you can't name any. Thought so. However, interesting to hear you think Sligo would beat Galway and Roscommon with a few extra 20 year olds.
Not sure what Syferus thinks but to remind you Sligo beat Roscommon at U21 level last year and brought Galway the All Ireland finalists to be to extra time. They probably wouldn't have beaten Roscommon if they had to play them without 3 of their best players. It not a choice for Sligo they are light on numbers.
Is the ref going to finally blow his whistle?... No, he's going to blow his nose

Zulu

Quote from: Blowitupref on June 01, 2018, 12:51:57 AM
Quote from: Zulu on June 01, 2018, 12:26:56 AM
So you can't name any. Thought so. However, interesting to hear you think Sligo would beat Galway and Roscommon with a few extra 20 year olds.
Not sure what Syferus thinks but to remind you Sligo beat Roscommon at U21 level last year and brought Galway the All Ireland finalists to be to extra time. They probably wouldn't have beaten Roscommon if they had to play them without 3 of their best players. It not a choice for Sligo they are light on numbers.

Sorry I'm not following. You're talking about U20's not playing U21? Syferus has suggested Sligo would do significantly better with some 20 year olds at senior level, is that true?

Zulu

Quote from: Ball Hopper on June 01, 2018, 12:50:16 AM
In Munster, Limerick and Waterford senior footballers could be done for the year on 9 June.  If any U20's play in either of the senior games, they are ineligible for the U20 team.

Both Limerick and Waterford play their first U20 game later in June, Limerick on 15 and Waterford on 22 June.

They could push the U20 competition back a few weeks and any U20 who has played senior, can play with the U20's only if the seniors are out of the AI championship.

Not suggesting the timing is right but the concept is.

manfromdelmonte

It's a simple rule.
Decide if a player is a development player - U20 or a senior player

magpie seanie

Aye and sure lets give them all a medal and a lollipop.

AZOffaly

#164
I personally have no problem with a county board holding back precocious youngsters if they feel it's in the player's interests. I also can see the argument for "if you're good enough, you're old enough", but in general I'd side with letting them mature physically and mentally within their own age group, and then stretch when ready.

But one thing about this, it does absolutely favour the stronger deeper counties, particularly at U20 level itself. It's very easy for Kerry, for example, to say 'Ah we'll let Clifford and O'Shea play with the seniors, we don't want to hold them back' because they are in the middle of an exceptional run of Minor teams coming through. This works out perfectly for them because now the lads just below in the pecking order, will get the full gametime with the U20s, and are probably better than what's in other counties anyway.

If Offaly, or Tipperary, release a star U20 to play senior, that will be a major blow to their competitiveness at that level. So they have a choice to make that is different to Kerry. Namely, do we prioritise the senior and take the risk that this lad is not ready for senior championship football, and screw the U20s; or Do we sacrifice the benefits this lad might make to our seniors, in the name of developing him at his own group, and making our U20s more competitive?

Offaly have chosen the latter, and I think that's to be commended as a principled stance.
Kerry can eat their cake and have it, because they have lads plenty good enough to pad out their U20s anyway.

By the way, I'm not saying it's an unfair rule, I think it's in place for the right reasons. I just think the deeper counties have a less tough time adhering to it.