More Dissident-Republican Activity

[smelmoth]

There seems to be 2 trains of thought on here:

1. No return to Stormont for the reasons stated e.g. DUP bad faith, inequality and a general lack of respect for nationalists going back over the years.  You could also theough in their current links to loyalists etc.

2. Those, who I presume are mostly nationalists, who oppose SF.

I've asked this question before a few times but nobody has really gave an answer.

People are great at castgating political parties and politicians etc. but are not great at saying what they are for.

If not SF, what type of party should be formed and why? How would they differ?

I understand Aontú are testing the water in the local elections in the north.  Are they a credible option for nationalists?

Well I'm all for social democratic principles, so I'd start the name with the letters SD. I also think that a good party for nationalists would be one that stands up for the working man and would be aligned with the Labour Party in Europe and the south (none of that Fianna Fail malarkey) and would take its seats in Westminster where it'd be aligned with the Labour party there. So the letter L would come next. And to finish off the name, we'd have to make it clear that it's a party, so it'd have to end in P.

I agree with a lot of this. There is a socially progressive element of the party I will always vote for but there are also dinosaurs and individuals who understand the nationalist aspect of the ticket but couldn't maintain a conversation for too long on social democracy or the principles of representing labour. The loss of Claire Hanna signaled a lot of this

[RedHand88]

I'll be voting SDLP. I will transfer to Alliance and UUP. Parties interested in making NI work.
Power sharing is the only show in town. If you think that a Unity referendum is achievable and more importantly winnable in the near future you are living in cloud cuckoo land. It is a distraction tactic used by SF to cover their own shortcomings. I am in favour of a United Ireland. Nut understand there is much work to be done before it's achievable.

NI can never work. It is a deeply flawed project that has had 100 years and had failed miserably since its inception. Power sharing is only a way of keeping the two communities from killing each other until the inevitable happens and "our wee country" is put out of its misery once and for all.

[smelmoth]

There seems to be 2 trains of thought on here:

1. No return to Stormont for the reasons stated e.g. DUP bad faith, inequality and a general lack of respect for nationalists going back over the years.  You could also theough in their current links to loyalists etc.

2. Those, who I presume are mostly nationalists, who oppose SF.

I've asked this question before a few times but nobody has really gave an answer.

People are great at castgating political parties and politicians etc. but are not great at saying what they are for.

If not SF, what type of party should be formed and why? How would they differ
I understand Aontú are testing the water in the local elections in the north.  Are they a credible option for nationalists?

What about a party committed to making this place work and not obsessed with green and orange and borders? Anyway what about an answer to my ILA question?

What party is that then? Let us all know.

The key question is can the six counties work?

It's a failed political enity - everyone can see this.

Alliance. Assumed you would have deciphered that from the post above when I said it was Alliance

Making the 6 counties work is indeed the key question, given that we are left with that entity whether it be in a UK, a UI or as an independent nation (the latter is hugely unlikely). A lot of people fail to grasp that even in a UI stormont and NI continue to exist and we have to make them work. Calling it a failed entity doesn't allow any of us to wash our hands of the need, for our iwn sake and the generations to come to make it work

Genuine question. Why alliance? What have they delivered in the past and what can they deliver in the future? When I left Ireland they didn't exist I think. I don't know much about them apart from seeing Naomi Long and Sorcha Eastwood on Twitter and they don't overly impress me on that platform. But to be fair no politician does

At Stormont Alliance have done more with their tiny representation than most. Mainly this involved holding the posts that DUP and SF can't trust or cannot be seen to trust the other side to do. They kept the show on the road. When they and everyone else got fed up with the standards of behaviour that passed for governance they went into opposition rather than run away altogether.

At Westminster successes have been rare but boy have they been sweet. Its a matter of regret for every sane person in NI that Long was not present in Westminster during the Brexit debates and votes.

Locally Alliance are the thread by which sanity hangs. SF and DUP are solid voting blocks. They do deals with each other to the disadvantage of the electorate or they bang the drum to bully SDLP or UUP into turning it into a green vs orange issue and one tribe winning or preventing the other tribe winning. Principles and good governance go out the window.

There is no pretence about Alliance. They don't pay lip service to social deprevation in order to drawdown some funding into the hands of "community leaders " in wards that didn't vote the right way and get those community leaders to canvass for them. They don't blather on about shared space and then name a kids play park after a murderer. They don't talk about a shared future and then set up schools where Protestant and catholics share the same building and PE infrastructure but are segregated during the day. They do stand up for what is right (witness flags in Belfast), they do stand up to the bullshit words (witness the "political wing of the IRA" nonsense floated in this election), they do stand up to the "sticks and stones " (witness the ongoing attacks in Easy Belfast), they do condemn all violence on all sides unequivocally.

What would we have to lose by having more of them and less of what we have?

[smelmoth]

I see from the posts on here that many on the board are bought into the equal blame on both SF and the DUP. But lets remember that SF had a compromise agreement, which parked the issues some of you now want dropped completely. They rightly were taken top task by the Pro Choice/Irish Language/LGBT groups. Even at that the hard line DUP base couldn't wear it. If SF now go back to this deal that didn't secure rights as promised they would be slaughtered at the polls and their opponents would including the SDLP would make hay. Bottom line is and I will repeat it the DUP and UUP do not get equality or parity of esteem. Fr Magill's well intentioned remarks perpetuate the myth of parity of blame.

100% right. No parity of esteem when dealing with right wing religious zealots against rights for gay community and compromise of any sort and who have never said anything but no to every effort at peace on this island.

Do don't vote for them. Voting SF would be equally stupid. I'm sure you will agree

No I don't agree and I don't understand your first sentence

First letter of my post should have been S rather than D. Hope that clears that up.

Why SF what are they delivering?

[smelmoth]

I shall be voting Sinn Fein 1,2,3 in the Armagh DEA I shall give a preference to the stoops and Alliance, Aontu can go f**k themselves. The primary reason for this is it is the best chance of depriving the DUP of a seat. I make no bones about this.

1. Well done for your honesty. Genuinely appreciated
2. Interesting that you don't point to a single policy objective as a reason to vote SF
3. Interesting that you don't point to any level of performance delivery on a policy issue as a reason to vote SF
4. There is a way of playing noughts and crosses that guarantees that the other side can't win. The problem is that by putting your cross in those boxes you rule out any chance of you winning. Maybe aim higher when voting. In a zero sum game what we hand on to the next generation won't be any better than what we have today

[smelmoth]

I'll be voting SDLP. I will transfer to Alliance and UUP. Parties interested in making NI work.
Power sharing is the only show in town. If you think that a Unity referendum is achievable and more importantly winnable in the near future you are living in cloud cuckoo land. It is a distraction tactic used by SF to cover their own shortcomings. I am in favour of a United Ireland. Nut understand there is much work to be done before it's achievable.

NI can never work. It is a deeply flawed project that has had 100 years and had failed miserably since its inception. Power sharing is only a way of keeping the two communities from killing each other until the inevitable happens and "our wee country" is put out of its misery once and for all.

Given the context of the GFA define "put out of its misery"

[Orior]

I'll be voting SDLP. I will transfer to Alliance and UUP. Parties interested in making NI work.
Power sharing is the only show in town. If you think that a Unity referendum is achievable and more importantly winnable in the near future you are living in cloud cuckoo land. It is a distraction tactic used by SF to cover their own shortcomings. I am in favour of a United Ireland. Nut understand there is much work to be done before it's achievable.

NI can never work. It is a deeply flawed project that has had 100 years and had failed miserably since its inception. Power sharing is only a way of keeping the two communities from killing each other until the inevitable happens and "our wee country" is put out of its misery once and for all.

As much as I hate to agree with a Tyrone man, but that is all very true.

[marty34]

I shall be voting Sinn Fein 1,2,3 in the Armagh DEA I shall give a preference to the stoops and Alliance, Aontu can go f**k themselves. The primary reason for this is it is the best chance of depriving the DUP of a seat. I make no bones about this.

Should you not vote all the way down the ballot paper, right to the bottom, if you want push candidates 'out'? i.e. if there are 10 candidates, you should vote in order of preference 1-10, even if you do not like the party/candiate.

A maths lad told me this once - something to do with the PR system but he said nobody really does it as they think thay are giving a vote/a preference to someone who they don't want to get elected, if you know what I mean.

Any politics heads confirm this or was he waffling?

[stiffler]

I shall be voting Sinn Fein 1,2,3 in the Armagh DEA I shall give a preference to the stoops and Alliance, Aontu can go f**k themselves. The primary reason for this is it is the best chance of depriving the DUP of a seat. I make no bones about this.

Should you not vote all the way down the ballot paper, right to the bottom, if you want push candidates 'out'? i.e. if there are 10 candidates, you should vote in order of preference 1-10, even if you do not like the party/candiate.

A maths lad told me this once - something to do with the PR system but he said nobody really does it as they think thay are giving a vote/a preference to someone who they don't want to get elected, if you know what I mean.

Any politics heads confirm this or was he waffling?

Depends on what round of counting the vote goes to and if your top votes are elected/eliminated.

If your number 1 vote is eliminated then number 2 will get the vote if still in with a chance of getting a seat. The surplus votes whenever someone is elected gets split out in proportion to the next in line on the ballot paper.

[Hardy]

It probably makes a very marginal difference, but you should give your least favoured candidate the lowest preference and put a number beside every candidate. Failing to do this means the quota is lowered by reducing the number of transferable votes. Therefore your least favoured candidate has a better chance of reaching the quota.

[Harold Disgracey]

I shall be voting Sinn Fein 1,2,3 in the Armagh DEA I shall give a preference to the stoops and Alliance, Aontu can go f**k themselves. The primary reason for this is it is the best chance of depriving the DUP of a seat. I make no bones about this.

1. Well done for your honesty. Genuinely appreciated
2. Interesting that you don't point to a single policy objective as a reason to vote SF
3. Interesting that you don't point to any level of performance delivery on a policy issue as a reason to vote SF
4. There is a way of playing noughts and crosses that guarantees that the other side can't win. The problem is that by putting your cross in those boxes you rule out any chance of you winning. Maybe aim higher when voting. In a zero sum game what we hand on to the next generation won't be any better than what we have today

Not that it is any f**king concern of yours who I vote for but I am an Irish Republican with very liberal views on abortion, same sex marriage etc. I don't necessarily agree with everything the shinners stand for but I always vote and they are the party that most closely represents my views so they'll get my first preference, there is no alternative.

[imtommygunn]

The uup are not covering themselves in glory. Election leaflets being sent round about alliance siding with the pira. Pretty inflammatory stuff.

I agree. But in Stormont you have to share power. Transferring to UUP indicates who I prefer.

*I appreciate this isn't a Stormont election.

Yeah they are still preferable I agree. Least worst probably best way to describe them.

[Jim Bob]

I shall be voting Sinn Fein 1,2,3 in the Armagh DEA I shall give a preference to the stoops and Alliance, Aontu can go f**k themselves. The primary reason for this is it is the best chance of depriving the DUP of a seat. I make no bones about this.

1. Well done for your honesty. Genuinely appreciated
2. Interesting that you don't point to a single policy objective as a reason to vote SF
3. Interesting that you don't point to any level of performance delivery on a policy issue as a reason to vote SF
4. There is a way of playing noughts and crosses that guarantees that the other side can't win. The problem is that by putting your cross in those boxes you rule out any chance of you winning. Maybe aim higher when voting. In a zero sum game what we hand on to the next generation won't be any better than what we have today

Not that it is any f**king concern of yours who I vote for but I am an Irish Republican with very liberal views on abortion, same sex marriage etc. I don't necessarily agree with everything the shinners stand for but I always vote and they are the party that most closely represents my views so they'll get my first preference, there is no alternative.

If it's not any f**king concern of another poster who you vote for then why go on ahead and tell them!!!

[general_lee]

I vote Sinn Fein for largely the same reasons as Harold Disgracey. In the event of a united ireland I imagine I'd stop voting for them and probably vote Greens. I despise the DUP and pretty much everything they stand for. For all this lazy analysis of how they and SF are two sides of the same dirty coin, where else in the civilised world, other than the most backward backwaters would a party like the DUP get so much support. A bunch of xenophobic, homophobic, sectarian, bigoted, right-wing British nationalists are the biggest party here. After the whole Brexit debacle I just want a border poll and hope to god we get out of this toxic union.

[Aaron Boone]

It probably makes a very marginal difference, but you should give your least favoured candidate the lowest preference and put a number beside every candidate. Failing to do this means the quota is lowered by reducing the number of transferable votes. Therefore your least favoured candidate has a better chance of reaching the quota.

Proof that you learn something new everyday.