The record of Division 4 teams in the championship 2010-2015 (Updated with 2015)

[twohands!!!]

Division 4 teams played 99 championship games in this 5 year period.

They won 29 games lost 66 and drew 4.

At first glance that doesn't look too bad.

However when you look at who the wins came against, things look a lot more of an issue.

2 of those wins came against New York who don't compete in the league.
15 of those wins came against other Division 4 teams.
8 came against Division 3 teams.
3 came against Division 2 teams.
1 came against a Division 1 team.

Overall 99 championship games and 4 wins against top 16 teams.

So far this year in the championship it's been Division 4 teams played 8 lost 7 with the only win coming when two Division 4 teams played each other.

* This doesn't include New York's loss to Galway. I've used Division 4 status at the start of the year as opposed to at the end as 1) it was easier 2) although the form of those teams that win promotion is decent, playing other Division 4 sides is a terrible preparation for championship 3)I suspect it probably makes the Division 4 figures look a bit better – if I had to guess I'd say the promoted Division 4 teams are probably responsible for a serious chunk of the wins while I'd say the record of those teams relegated from Division 3 in the championship is unlikely to do much to improve the figures and I would strongly suggest would only end up making it look worse.

Also it's hard to tell with the small sample size but if anything it looks like the record against top 16 sides is getting worse - the win against Division 1 opposition was in 2010, while 2 of the 3 wins against Division 2 sides came in 2011.

To put it another way in the 2012 to 2015 period so far Division 4 sides have played 68 championship games and only won 1 against a side from Division 1 or 2.

[Clinker]

There was an oul lad in the bar the other night with a few drinks on him who said that he reckoned that the teams in Division 1 and Division 2 are better than the teams in Division 4 and then he sang a song. Not a bad oul chanter either.

[Milltown Row2]

There was an oul lad in the bar the other night with a few drinks on him who said that he reckoned that the teams in Division 1 and Division 2 are better than the teams in Division 4 and then he sang a song. Not a bad oul chanter either.

I reckon if you piss against the wind you'll get wet

[GalwayBayBoy]

I guess they are division 4 sides for a reason.

[twohands!!!]

There was an oul lad in the bar the other night with a few drinks on him who said that he reckoned that the teams in Division 1 and Division 2 are better than the teams in Division 4 and then he sang a song. Not a bad oul chanter either.

Obviously - but there has been so much attention paid to the Dublin Longford result, I thought it was worthwhile putting into perspective how much Division 4 teams are merely in the championship to make up the numbers.

Tipperary beat Waterford by 22 points and Laois beat Carlow by 17 as well in the championship this year plus a half-sick Galway team strolled to a 16 point win in New York.

People have been talking about a two-tier system taking away the chance of the weakest teams to compete, when that chance is already long gone in terms of competing against the better teams.

If there was a 2nd tier competition at least those teams going well would see a reward in the shape of some silverware.

[AZOffaly]

There was an oul lad in the bar the other night with a few drinks on him who said that he reckoned that the teams in Division 1 and Division 2 are better than the teams in Division 4 and then he sang a song. Not a bad oul chanter either.

Obviously - but there has been so much attention paid to the Dublin Longford result, I thought it was worthwhile putting into perspective how much Division 4 teams are merely in the championship to make up the numbers.

Tipperary beat Waterford by 22 points and Laois beat Carlow by 17 as well in the championship this year plus a half-sick Galway team strolled to a 16 point win in New York.

People have been talking about a two-tier system taking away the chance of the weakest teams to compete, when that chance is already long gone in terms of competing against the better teams.

If there was a 2nd tier competition at least those teams going well would see a reward in the shape of some silverware.

A two tier championship, where the split is Division 2, removes the matches between division 2 and division 3 teams. It takes a huge swathe of teams who could compete with at least a fair number of division 2 teams out of the equation, simply because a few division 4 teams are piss.  For example, you mentioned Tipp above there. Tipp would be in tier 2, despite being responsible for hammering Longford (who beat Derry) last year, and beating Laois, as well as hammering Waterford this year.

So are Waterford or London any more likely to compete with Armagh, Fermanagh or Tipperary in this second tier competition? I don't think so.

[Farrandeelin]

There was an oul lad in the bar the other night with a few drinks on him who said that he reckoned that the teams in Division 1 and Division 2 are better than the teams in Division 4 and then he sang a song. Not a bad oul chanter either.

Now the question is, do Div 4 teams enter their own little championship etc...

[AZOffaly]

There was an oul lad in the bar the other night with a few drinks on him who said that he reckoned that the teams in Division 1 and Division 2 are better than the teams in Division 4 and then he sang a song. Not a bad oul chanter either.

Now the question is, do Div 4 teams enter their own little championship etc...

There you go. That's where this is heading. Sounds like we should have 1 championship for Division 1 teams, which could be marketed to bejesus on Sky and RTE. 1 Championship for the 16 Division 2 and 3 teams, which is a fairly even level, and 1 championship for division 4.

I don't like where that's heading.

[twohands!!!]

There was an oul lad in the bar the other night with a few drinks on him who said that he reckoned that the teams in Division 1 and Division 2 are better than the teams in Division 4 and then he sang a song. Not a bad oul chanter either.

Obviously - but there has been so much attention paid to the Dublin Longford result, I thought it was worthwhile putting into perspective how much Division 4 teams are merely in the championship to make up the numbers.

Tipperary beat Waterford by 22 points and Laois beat Carlow by 17 as well in the championship this year plus a half-sick Galway team strolled to a 16 point win in New York.

People have been talking about a two-tier system taking away the chance of the weakest teams to compete, when that chance is already long gone in terms of competing against the better teams.

If there was a 2nd tier competition at least those teams going well would see a reward in the shape of some silverware.

A two tier championship, where the split is Division 2, removes the matches between division 2 and division 3 teams. It takes a huge swathe of teams who could compete with at least a fair number of division 2 teams out of the equation, simply because a few division 4 teams are piss.  For example, you mentioned Tipp above there. Tipp would be in tier 2, despite being responsible for hammering Longford (who beat Derry) last year, and beating Laois, as well as hammering Waterford this year.

So are Waterford or London any more likely to compete with Armagh, Fermanagh or Tipperary in this second tier competition? I don't think so.

Personally I think a three tier system would be best, but there isn't a remote chance of that.
However I would say that if you had a two tier system that it definitely wouldn't be Division 3 + Division 4.

I would say all Division 4 and then either plus 2 or plus 4 from Division 3.
I'd basically look back at the teams that fell into those categories in the last five years to see which would make most sense.

One massive advantage of a two-tier championship is that it would free up a world of time for club football in the summer.

[armaghniac]

There was an oul lad in the bar the other night with a few drinks on him who said that he reckoned that the teams in Division 1 and Division 2 are better than the teams in Division 4 and then he sang a song. Not a bad oul chanter either.

Now the question is, do Div 4 teams enter their own little championship etc...

There you go. That's where this is heading. Sounds like we should have 1 championship for Division 1 teams, which could be marketed to bejesus on Sky and RTE. 1 Championship for the 16 Division 2 and 3 teams, which is a fairly even level, and 1 championship for division 4.

I don't like where that's heading.

The "Phríomhroinn" and all the rest.

One massive advantage of a two-tier championship is that it would free up a world of time for club football in the summer.

It wouldn't really, removing one round would not make that much difference and these new formats will have teams playing mini leagues and so on. It might make things more predictable.

[From the Bunker]

Question: Are there Division 4 Teams from 2010 and after that are in Division One or Two now?

Question: Are there Division 1 or 2 Teams from 2010 and after that are in Division four now?

[Syferus]

Question: Are there Division 4 Teams from 2010 and after that are in Division One or Two now?

Question: Are there Division 1 or 2 Teams from 2010 and after that are in Division four now?

We are anyways.

[Farrandeelin]

AZ, don't worry. I was been sarcastic.

[twohands!!!]

An update to this based on this year's championship

Division 4 teams played 17 games in this year's championship and won 3.
2 of those 3 wins were where one Division 4 team played another Division 4 team.
The sole win for a Division 4 team against a team outside Division 4 was Antrim's win over Laois.
There were some right hammerings with the winning margin gap in this games being 27, 22, 17, 17, 13, 13, 10, 10, 9, 8, 8, 8, 7, 4, 3, 2,2 Overage the average winning margin for these games worked out exactly at 10 points.

To update the overall figures for Division 4 teams from 2010-2015

Division 4 teams played 116 championship games in this 6 year period.

They won 32 games lost 80 and drew 4.

At first glance that doesn't look too bad.

However when you look at who the wins came against, things look a lot more of an issue.

2 of those wins came against New York who don't compete in the league.
17 of those wins came against other Division 4 teams.
8 came against Division 3 teams.
4 came against Division 2 teams.
1 came against a Division 1 team.

Overall 116 championship games and 5 wins against top 16 teams.

[armaghniac]

Question: Are there Division 4 Teams from 2010 and after that are in Division One or Two now?

Question: Are there Division 1 or 2 Teams from 2010 and after that are in Division four now?

This remains a good question. Are there teams that dip into div 4 and do better other year?