Brexit.

[seafoid]

Honda gonna close the Swindon plant.

Strong and Stable, eh Theresa?

Really not sure of the Honda link to Brexit. And there is no need to manufacture a link for there will be plenty of cases where the link is concrete.

Surely obvious link is tariffs. If Japan has a better trade deal with EU, why manufacture in U.K. for cars sold in Europe. They are hardly going to come out and blame Brexit and get embroiled in social media spats like Airbus. Not their culture.

But they are withdrawing manufacturing from Europe. It isn't financially viable to manufacture in Europe either inside or outside the EU

If the plant was inside the EU with frictionless JIT component delivery they may not have closed it. The EU/JP deal has meant they could get round the complexities off a UK outside the EU.

Rumour and conjecture. I am no fan of Brexit but they have been quite clear this is not a Brexit related decision.

This is just plamas for Swindon

The European car manufacturing biz has excess capacity
Japan told May in 2016 soft Brexit or job losses
They didn't want to do this but the tories made it inevitable. they can't build cars in Swindon under no deal or May's deal.
10,000 jobs in total

[Jim_Murphy_74]

This is just plamas for Swindon

The European car manufacturing biz has excess capacity
Japan told May in 2016 soft Brexit or job losses
They didn't want to do this but the tories made it inevitable. they can't build cars in Swindon under no deal or May's deal.
10,000 jobs in total

At this stage the truth is irrelevant to changing opinions: it's obvious from all forms of media that ideological lines have been drawn and opinions are not to be swayed by events on the ground. 

For a company like Honda, a decision of this magnitude will of course be multi factored and Brexit uncertainty has to have been one of those factors.  Estimating the weighting of that factor is down to one's ideological position. 

/Jim.

[seafoid]

This is just plamas for Swindon

The European car manufacturing biz has excess capacity
Japan told May in 2016 soft Brexit or job losses
They didn't want to do this but the tories made it inevitable. they can't build cars in Swindon under no deal or May's deal.
10,000 jobs in total

At this stage the truth is irrelevant to changing opinions: it's obvious from all forms of media that ideological lines have been drawn and opinions are not to be swayed by events on the ground. 

For a company like Honda, a decision of this magnitude will of course be multi factored and Brexit uncertainty has to have been one of those factors.  Estimating the weighting of that factor is down to one's ideological position. 

/Jim.

Brexit is not fact based and it never was
It is magical thinking
The Japanese made that very clear to HMG

I don't hear any of the headbangers advocating managed no deal this weather

Other factors behind the Honda decision were factory not of sufficient scale, diesel impacts, falling market share , falling demand
But Honda never closed a factory before

[LeoMc]

Honda gonna close the Swindon plant.

Strong and Stable, eh Theresa?

Really not sure of the Honda link to Brexit. And there is no need to manufacture a link for there will be plenty of cases where the link is concrete.

Surely obvious link is tariffs. If Japan has a better trade deal with EU, why manufacture in U.K. for cars sold in Europe. They are hardly going to come out and blame Brexit and get embroiled in social media spats like Airbus. Not their culture.

But they are withdrawing manufacturing from Europe. It isn't financially viable to manufacture in Europe either inside or outside the EU

If the plant was inside the EU with frictionless JIT component delivery they may not have closed it. The EU/JP deal has meant they could get round the complexities off a UK outside the EU.

Rumour and conjecture. I am no fan of Brexit but they have been quite clear this is not a Brexit related decision.

I am not saying Brexit was the reason, but it will have been a factor.
They came to the UK for EU access and they now have it vi the EU/JP deal so that will have been a bigger factor. They no longer need an EU location to get their cars into the EU and by making them in Japan they are creating or maintaining Japanese jobs.

The potential extra friction on an already marginal plant in a location they no longer needed could not have been an irrelevancy.

[trailer]

Honda gonna close the Swindon plant.

Strong and Stable, eh Theresa?

Really not sure of the Honda link to Brexit. And there is no need to manufacture a link for there will be plenty of cases where the link is concrete.

Surely obvious link is tariffs. If Japan has a better trade deal with EU, why manufacture in U.K. for cars sold in Europe. They are hardly going to come out and blame Brexit and get embroiled in social media spats like Airbus. Not their culture.

But they are withdrawing manufacturing from Europe. It isn't financially viable to manufacture in Europe either inside or outside the EU

If the plant was inside the EU with frictionless JIT component delivery they may not have closed it. The EU/JP deal has meant they could get round the complexities off a UK outside the EU.

Rumour and conjecture. I am no fan of Brexit but they have been quite clear this is not a Brexit related decision.

I am not saying Brexit was the reason, but it will have been a factor.
They came to the UK for EU access and they now have it vi the EU/JP deal so that will have been a bigger factor. They no longer need an EU location to get their cars into the EU and by making them in Japan they are creating or maintaining Japanese jobs.

The potential extra friction on an already marginal plant in a location they no longer needed could not have been an irrelevancy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47287386

"This is not a Brexit-related issue for us, it's being made on the global-related changes I've spoken about.

"We've always seen Brexit as something we'll get through, but these changes globally are something we will have to respond to. We deeply regret the impact it will have on the Swindon community"

Swindon wasn't that big of a factory. It made one line of cars. It needed a lot of investment for a changinf market.

[seafoid]

Honda gonna close the Swindon plant.

Strong and Stable, eh Theresa?

Really not sure of the Honda link to Brexit. And there is no need to manufacture a link for there will be plenty of cases where the link is concrete.

Surely obvious link is tariffs. If Japan has a better trade deal with EU, why manufacture in U.K. for cars sold in Europe. They are hardly going to come out and blame Brexit and get embroiled in social media spats like Airbus. Not their culture.

But they are withdrawing manufacturing from Europe. It isn't financially viable to manufacture in Europe either inside or outside the EU

If the plant was inside the EU with frictionless JIT component delivery they may not have closed it. The EU/JP deal has meant they could get round the complexities off a UK outside the EU.

Rumour and conjecture. I am no fan of Brexit but they have been quite clear this is not a Brexit related decision.

I am not saying Brexit was the reason, but it will have been a factor.
They came to the UK for EU access and they now have it vi the EU/JP deal so that will have been a bigger factor. They no longer need an EU location to get their cars into the EU and by making them in Japan they are creating or maintaining Japanese jobs.

The potential extra friction on an already marginal plant in a location they no longer needed could not have been an irrelevancy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47287386

"This is not a Brexit-related issue for us, it's being made on the global-related changes I've spoken about.

"We've always seen Brexit as something we'll get through, but these changes globally are something we will have to respond to. We deeply regret the impact it will have on the Swindon community"

Swindon wasn't that big of a factory. It made one line of cars. It needed a lot of investment for a changinf market.

Why is this the first factory they ever closed?
Why did Abe warn May in 2016 that the UK had to go for a soft brexit or face the consequences? 

[seafoid]

Brexit is going really well

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/02/17/ridiculous-say-no-one-ever-voted-poorer

It is ridiculous to say no one ever voted to be poorer
•   
Daniel Hannan
17 February 2019 • 4:00pm
•   
•   
•   
•   
Save


People have every right to vote to be poorer. That, though, is hardly an argument for cancelling elections CREDIT: ANTHONY UPTON
"No one voted to be poorer". It has become a Europhile mantra, a slogan rattled off almost unthinkingly by Remainer MPs, especially Labour moderates. If we're talking specifically about Brexit, it may or may not be true. Personally speaking, I expect Brexit to make me poorer (I am an MEP) but, over time, to make Britain richer. How much richer depends, obviously, on the choices we make as a country.
As a general proposition, though, the idea that no one ever votes to be poorer is utter tosh. We vote to be poorer all the time, knowingly or unknowingly. We vote to be poorer whenever we vote for stricter rules on where houses can be built. We vote to be poorer when we turn away able-bodied economic migrants.
We vote to be poorer when we back schemes to preserve the habitats of rare species. We vote to be poorer when we subsidise orchestras or art galleries. We vote to be poorer when we privilege particular industries with tariffs or grants.
My point is not that these choices are right or wrong, simply that GDP is not our sole concern as voters, any more than money is not our sole concern as individuals.
To take an extreme example the decision to go to war with Hitler plainly could not be justified on economic grounds, yet it was backed by an overwhelming majority in the country.
Likewise the decision to retake the Falkland Islands.
It is bizarre to hear such blockheaded materialism from middle-class Labour MPs who are normally the first to boast about their readiness to "pay a little more tax to help the less privileged" (though they rarely actually do so, despite HMRC offering a provision for individuals to volunteer additional contributions).
If wealth were our chief measure, we would scrap almost all lifestyle taxes, most environmental regulations and a fair number of welfare payments.
Returning to Brexit, the act of leaving the EU will not, on its own, add a farthing to our national wealth. What it will do is to remove constraints, allowing us to make different choices. Freedom, by definition, includes the freedom to fail. As a fully sovereign country, we might become a free-trading Singapore or a Corbynite Venezuela. It will be our decision.
My guess is that Brexit will involve transitional costs and long-term gains – what Boris Johnson, during the referendum campaign, called the "Nike swoosh". Most of us understand deferred gratification. We practise it in our own lives all the time. A computer programmer might, for example, experience a loss of income while learning a new and more profitable form of coding.
We could make a hash of Brexit, of course. If we end up remaining in the EU's customs union, and giving Brussels permanent control over our trade with third countries, we will lose the benefits of staying without gaining the benefits of leaving. But I'd rather live in a democracy, and sometimes be on the losing side, than have my choices delineated by unelected officials.
People have every right to vote to be poorer. Indeed, a vote for Labour is in general a vote to be poorer: every Labour government, without exception, has put up unemployment. That, though, is hardly an argument for cancelling elections. MPs, of all people, should understand as much.

[LCohen]

Honda gonna close the Swindon plant.

Strong and Stable, eh Theresa?

Really not sure of the Honda link to Brexit. And there is no need to manufacture a link for there will be plenty of cases where the link is concrete.

Surely obvious link is tariffs. If Japan has a better trade deal with EU, why manufacture in U.K. for cars sold in Europe. They are hardly going to come out and blame Brexit and get embroiled in social media spats like Airbus. Not their culture.

But they are withdrawing manufacturing from Europe. It isn't financially viable to manufacture in Europe either inside or outside the EU

If the plant was inside the EU with frictionless JIT component delivery they may not have closed it. The EU/JP deal has meant they could get round the complexities off a UK outside the EU.

That's a huge "may"

Industry watchers I have spoken to say anybody other than Honda would have closed this factory years ago. It has been hanging on by its fingernails. I should say that it's not an industry I follow closely

[LCohen]

Honda gonna close the Swindon plant.

Strong and Stable, eh Theresa?

Really not sure of the Honda link to Brexit. And there is no need to manufacture a link for there will be plenty of cases where the link is concrete.

Surely obvious link is tariffs. If Japan has a better trade deal with EU, why manufacture in U.K. for cars sold in Europe. They are hardly going to come out and blame Brexit and get embroiled in social media spats like Airbus. Not their culture.

But they are withdrawing manufacturing from Europe. It isn't financially viable to manufacture in Europe either inside or outside the EU

If the plant was inside the EU with frictionless JIT component delivery they may not have closed it. The EU/JP deal has meant they could get round the complexities off a UK outside the EU.

Rumour and conjecture. I am no fan of Brexit but they have been quite clear this is not a Brexit related decision.

This is just plamas for Swindon

The European car manufacturing biz has excess capacity
Japan told May in 2016 soft Brexit or job losses
They didn't want to do this but the tories made it inevitable. they can't build cars in Swindon under no deal or May's deal.
10,000 jobs in total

Brexit is a fcuk up.
Honda closure is a disaster for Swindon and the West Country and M4 corridor economies.

But Brexit of not I'm really not sure Honda can successfully manufacture cars outside Asia

[LCohen]

Honda gonna close the Swindon plant.

Strong and Stable, eh Theresa?

Really not sure of the Honda link to Brexit. And there is no need to manufacture a link for there will be plenty of cases where the link is concrete.

Surely obvious link is tariffs. If Japan has a better trade deal with EU, why manufacture in U.K. for cars sold in Europe. They are hardly going to come out and blame Brexit and get embroiled in social media spats like Airbus. Not their culture.

But they are withdrawing manufacturing from Europe. It isn't financially viable to manufacture in Europe either inside or outside the EU

If the plant was inside the EU with frictionless JIT component delivery they may not have closed it. The EU/JP deal has meant they could get round the complexities off a UK outside the EU.

Rumour and conjecture. I am no fan of Brexit but they have been quite clear this is not a Brexit related decision.

I am not saying Brexit was the reason, but it will have been a factor.
They came to the UK for EU access and they now have it vi the EU/JP deal so that will have been a bigger factor. They no longer need an EU location to get their cars into the EU and by making them in Japan they are creating or maintaining Japanese jobs.

The potential extra friction on an already marginal plant in a location they no longer needed could not have been an irrelevancy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47287386

"This is not a Brexit-related issue for us, it's being made on the global-related changes I've spoken about.

"We've always seen Brexit as something we'll get through, but these changes globally are something we will have to respond to. We deeply regret the impact it will have on the Swindon community"

Swindon wasn't that big of a factory. It made one line of cars. It needed a lot of investment for a changinf market.

Why is this the first factory they ever closed?
Why did Abe warn May in 2016 that the UK had to go for a soft brexit or face the consequences?

Abe's warning is because unlike the headbangers he can see the fcuk up that Brexit and especially a no deal Brexit is. That is not the same as saying that every Japanese decision is influenced or dictated by Brexit.

It's possible that this factory ran out of rope. It hasn't been viable in years

[LCohen]

Brexit is going really well

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/02/17/ridiculous-say-no-one-ever-voted-poorer

It is ridiculous to say no one ever voted to be poorer
•   
Daniel Hannan
17 February 2019 • 4:00pm
•   
•   
•   
•   
Save


People have every right to vote to be poorer. That, though, is hardly an argument for cancelling elections CREDIT: ANTHONY UPTON
"No one voted to be poorer". It has become a Europhile mantra, a slogan rattled off almost unthinkingly by Remainer MPs, especially Labour moderates. If we're talking specifically about Brexit, it may or may not be true. Personally speaking, I expect Brexit to make me poorer (I am an MEP) but, over time, to make Britain richer. How much richer depends, obviously, on the choices we make as a country.
As a general proposition, though, the idea that no one ever votes to be poorer is utter tosh. We vote to be poorer all the time, knowingly or unknowingly. We vote to be poorer whenever we vote for stricter rules on where houses can be built. We vote to be poorer when we turn away able-bodied economic migrants.
We vote to be poorer when we back schemes to preserve the habitats of rare species. We vote to be poorer when we subsidise orchestras or art galleries. We vote to be poorer when we privilege particular industries with tariffs or grants.
My point is not that these choices are right or wrong, simply that GDP is not our sole concern as voters, any more than money is not our sole concern as individuals.
To take an extreme example the decision to go to war with Hitler plainly could not be justified on economic grounds, yet it was backed by an overwhelming majority in the country.
Likewise the decision to retake the Falkland Islands.
It is bizarre to hear such blockheaded materialism from middle-class Labour MPs who are normally the first to boast about their readiness to "pay a little more tax to help the less privileged" (though they rarely actually do so, despite HMRC offering a provision for individuals to volunteer additional contributions).
If wealth were our chief measure, we would scrap almost all lifestyle taxes, most environmental regulations and a fair number of welfare payments.
Returning to Brexit, the act of leaving the EU will not, on its own, add a farthing to our national wealth. What it will do is to remove constraints, allowing us to make different choices. Freedom, by definition, includes the freedom to fail. As a fully sovereign country, we might become a free-trading Singapore or a Corbynite Venezuela. It will be our decision.
My guess is that Brexit will involve transitional costs and long-term gains – what Boris Johnson, during the referendum campaign, called the "Nike swoosh". Most of us understand deferred gratification. We practise it in our own lives all the time. A computer programmer might, for example, experience a loss of income while learning a new and more profitable form of coding.
We could make a hash of Brexit, of course. If we end up remaining in the EU's customs union, and giving Brussels permanent control over our trade with third countries, we will lose the benefits of staying without gaining the benefits of leaving. But I'd rather live in a democracy, and sometimes be on the losing side, than have my choices delineated by unelected officials.
People have every right to vote to be poorer. Indeed, a vote for Labour is in general a vote to be poorer: every Labour government, without exception, has put up unemployment. That, though, is hardly an argument for cancelling elections. MPs, of all people, should understand as much.

There are points of principle in that that can be admired but as soon as any Tory uses the term "a Corbynite Venezuela" you know he is disingenuous

[seafoid]

williamnhutton
·
4h

Japan believes the vanguished should save face. Equally companies in keiretsu networks are closely intertwined with the state. Disinvestment from Brexit Britain is a geopolitical decision taken by state + business. Brexit Tories to be allowed to save face.But Brexit is the cause.

[screenexile]

Soubry is gone!

[mouview]

With Wollaston and Heidi Allen. Was hinted at on Newsnight last night. Hopefully the trickle becomes a torrent. Always felt a bit sorry for Soubry under the Tories; she fought tooth and nail against Brexit and the ERG and got little support or thanks for it.

[seafoid]

With Wollaston and Heidi Allen. Was hinted at on Newsnight last night. Hopefully the trickle becomes a torrent. Always felt a bit sorry for Soubry under the Tories; she fought tooth and nail against Brexit and the ERG and got little support or thanks for it.

She is not a groupthinker
Very impressive as Brexit got even worse