Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[Ronnie]

What gets my goat about this is the 15 odd years of stagnation that Antrim GAA have suffered whilst losing kids to less better sports.

How has the unavailability of Casement led to youngsters migrating to other sports, especially those which are "less better"?

If there really is a safety issue re: evacuation then that should have been something that the authorities flagged at the outset. 

Er, the authorities couldn't flag safety issues until the GAA presented their plans. When the GAA did so, the authorities pointed out that the plans weren't safe, as is their statutory duty btw.
The GAA might have foreseen that this might be the case, since they pay architects, engineers and planning consultants for advice on same. And even if they didn't, they must have known there was a problem when they submitted revised plans - which also failed to prove acceptable.

Rugby and football/soccer were fast-tracked above and beyond.

"Fast-tracked" by whom? Ravenhill proceeded pretty much on schedule, primarily because the IRFU had its act together and the project was relatively modest. And Windsor actually took longer than envisaged, though that was partly due to work on the adjacent Council Leisure Centre undermining the Kop Stand. (It hadn't originally been intended to replace the Kop).
But no-one did either organisation any special favours.

The GAA would have a more than arguable case that the statutory advice was less than competent.

Says who?

Antrim GAA should lodge a claim.

Against whom?

The simple fact is, the site is not suitable for a modern 40k capacity sports stadium, due to restricted access/egress, meaning that spectator safety could not be guaranteed in the event of an emergency evacuation?

Or would you be happy to allow your children to attend a game in a venue which experts consider to be unsafe?

Have you read any of strategic reports prepared by Antrim GAA, Ulster Council or, for that matter, any other GAA unit over the last 30 years?   If not, please start.  This was an inter-departmental protect from the get go.   There was zero good faith shown, and - arguably - orchestrated by unionist parties, whilst this was being processed.   Hopefully public money wasn't provided in the expectation that it would be written about, sketched about, dreamt about, discussed, litigated, re-drawn, appealed, litigated again etc etc etc.  Ever heard of Jarndyce v Jarndyce?   Please tell me you're a WUM?   Residents have rights, some inalienable, but not that many here.

[five points]

So we've moved to Cork now.

Those goalposts are whizzing about at an awful rate of knots.

Cork destroys your argument.

[Ronnie]

So we've moved to Cork now.

Those goalposts are whizzing about at an awful rate of knots.

Cork destroys your argument.

Cork is a shambles

[johnnycool]

So we've moved to Cork now.

Those goalposts are whizzing about at an awful rate of knots.

Cork destroys your argument.

What argument?

I'm just stating fact that this Casement Park stadium is intended to be used for a lot more than hurling and football matches and that the owners are Ulster GAA and not Antrim GAA as a lot of people seem to think.

IMO what Antrim GAA required wasn't remotely considered.

Ulster GAA were offered a modern stadium for relatively little financial input coupled with Carál Ní Chuilín wanting to make a big statement of what the Shinners could do for West Belfast and between the two of them they'd managed to f**k it up.

It will still get built, lord only knows when and what.

[Evil Genius]

In a civilised place, the public authorities would have worked with someone planning a civic amenity to ensure that there was clear visibility of potential good solutions,  rather than simply adopting "Ulster says no".  The attitude here is, we can't stop you, but we sure as hell aren't going to help you.

Eh?

It was the GAA who chose the site, Casement's location being the source of the problem.

Are you saying that the relevant Department should just have said "Yes", even when independent experts attested that it was entirely unsuitable/unsafe for a 40k stadium?

Meanwhile, you seem to have forgotten that the "public authorities" have allocated £62 million of public funds* towards this projecxt, the obstructionist, anti-GAA bastards.


* - That's £62m out of your and my taxes, while nurses have to go on strike and schools can't afford books etc

[five points]

So we've moved to Cork now.

Those goalposts are whizzing about at an awful rate of knots.

Cork destroys your argument.

What argument?

I'm just stating fact that this Casement Park stadium is intended to be used for a lot more than hurling and football matches

So was PuC.

and that the owners are Ulster GAA and not Antrim GAA

Makes no difference to its viability.

IMO what Antrim GAA required wasn't remotely considered.

Revealing.

Ulster GAA were offered a modern stadium for relatively little financial input

Large modern stadiums are expensive to maintain.

coupled with Carál Ní Chuilín wanting to make a big statement of what the Shinners could do for West Belfast and between the two of them they'd managed to f**k it up.

The whole thing was political pie in the sky.

It will still get built, lord only knows when and what.

Something modest should be cobbled together before Casement is lost forever.

[RadioGAAGAA]

Just what we need - a big expensive GAA stadium in a non-GAA city in a corner of the country that might be used an odd time for an Ulster final but which otherwise will never ever see a big qualifer or Super 8 game. Those who have presided over this fiasco should be drummed out of the GAA.

Rarely agree with you but your absolutely bang on here.

The whole idea is every bit as much a disgrace as the implementation of it.

Unfortunately too many folks are that blinkered they can't get beyond "themmuns got money, so should we".


Replace the West stand.
Put a roof over the East terrace.
Maintain the two end terraces as is (uncovered).
Done.

At a fraction of the cost with no hassle and a stadium that is actually matched to its usage.


The GAA should then take the money saved and write a cheque to the RVH with it.

[Evil Genius]

Have you read any of strategic reports prepared by Antrim GAA, Ulster Council or, for that matter, any other GAA unit over the last 30 years?   If not, please start.  This was an inter-departmental protect from the get go.   There was zero good faith shown, and - arguably - orchestrated by unionist parties, whilst this was being processed.   Hopefully public money wasn't provided in the expectation that it would be written about, sketched about, dreamt about, discussed, litigated, re-drawn, appealed, litigated again etc etc etc.  Ever heard of Jarndyce v Jarndyce?   Please tell me you're a WUM?   Residents have rights, some inalienable, but not that many here.

"Zero good faith"?

What on earth are you talking about? It was originally envisaged that all three sports would share a new site at The Maze. The GAA was keen, the IFA signed up to it in writing and UR said, well, "We're not greatly bothered either way (we've got Ravenhill), but we won't stand in the way, either". (Paraphrasing)

Then when The Maze collapsed under the weight of its own financial inadequacies, HMG said to the three bodies, "Here's the money, use it to build/re-build the national or provincial stadium of your own choice". At £62m, the GAA's share was more than the IFA's and UR's combined (though they were also putting up £15m of their own, tbf).

The other two bodies came up with acceptable plans, the GAA didn't, the point being that Casement wasn't delayed for political or financial reasons, rather it was because the Gaa's plan wasn't deemed safe, as pointed out by local residents. Worse still, the revised follow-up plan wasn't compliant either. How many chances did they need?

All this could have been avoided, the money allocated and the project started long before Stormont collapsed, had the GAA submitted suitable plans, whether on the Casement site or elsewhere, as they (GAA) chose.

Or as 'Johnny Cool' so accurately put it:
"Ulster GAA were offered a modern stadium for relatively little financial input coupled with Carál Ní Chuilín wanting to make a big statement of what the Shinners could do for West Belfast and between the two of them they'd managed to f**k it up."

[Ronnie]

That's not correct.   I disagree with your opinion and I also disagree with Johnny Cool.  Have you a question for me?   Answer mine.  How many Strategic Reports have you read?

[johnnycool]

So we've moved to Cork now.

Those goalposts are whizzing about at an awful rate of knots.

Cork destroys your argument.

What argument?

I'm just stating fact that this Casement Park stadium is intended to be used for a lot more than hurling and football matches

So was PuC.

and that the owners are Ulster GAA and not Antrim GAA

(1) ]Makes no difference to its viability.

IMO what Antrim GAA required wasn't remotely considered.

(2) Revealing.

Ulster GAA were offered a modern stadium for relatively little financial input

(3) Large modern stadiums are expensive to maintain.

coupled with Carál Ní Chuilín wanting to make a big statement of what the Shinners could do for West Belfast and between the two of them they'd managed to f**k it up.

The whole thing was political pie in the sky.

It will still get built, lord only knows when and what.

Something modest should be cobbled together before Casement is lost forever.

(1) Agreed so why were you interested in Antrim GAA's attendance figures?
(2) Not Really, the world and their dog knew this was an Ulster GAA project which the then incumbents in Antrim GAA rolled over and got their bellies tickled.
(3) Agreed, hence the need for it to be multifunctional. Moving it out to Dungannon, Armagh or the likes would hinder that process due to the lack of hotels etc etc.

[johnnycool]

That's not correct.   I disagree with your opinion and I also disagree with Johnny Cool.  Have you a question for me?   Answer mine.  How many Strategic Reports have you read?

About what?

[befair]

Bricks and mortar are expensive, networks aren't; resources should be instead going into ulster football at a club level. See what investment has done for Dublin; the GAA should be trying to emulate this in Belfast and Derry

[johnnycool]

Bricks and mortar are expensive, networks aren't; resources should be instead going into ulster football at a club level. See what investment has done for Dublin; the GAA should be trying to emulate this in Belfast and Derry

No hurling then?

Heard of Gaelfast then?

[Rossfan]

Why in the name of God was the Stadium closed and let go derelict?
You'd think they'd have kept it going till Planning was secured and work about to start.

[five points]

Why in the name of God was the Stadium closed and let go derelict?

It was worse. They actually sold off fixtures such as terrace crowd barriers.