Armagh v Cavan (Sun - 02-06-19) Clones

[Solo_run]

The players lined up for the throw in, McVeety put out his hand to shake hands with Morgan and got a shoulder to the chest for his troubles so Dara gave him a few shoves in return. Morgan then fouled McVeety trying to go through him on the ground and Cavan got a score from the free. Then in response to more pulling and dragging off the ball Dara pushed him and Morgan pushed Dara in the face, inexplicably got a yellow and he got moved off him and then subbed when it was clear he was a walking liability. And of course you go to the umpire when you've just been struck in the face, you're entitled to look for fair play from the officials.

But yes, McVeety should cut out the crap....

As for saying Grimley went to kick the ball as McKiernan dived on it, since when does a player draw the boot on a ball loose ball instead of going to win it? He deliberately drew the boot on it because he saw McKiernan going to win it, clearly deliberate dangerous play.

The Sunday game are commending Armagh for defensive discipline and you're admitting that they had 1 deserved red and could have easily had 2 more. Interesting indeed.

If you think Grimley deliberately went to hurt McKernan you are way out of line. Jamie Clarke drew the boot on the ball in front of goal - who was he trying to hurt?

As for the comments on the reds I was trying to give a view on what is possible and not what I thought was correct.

He doesn't need to try to hurt him for it to be red. He needs to put him in danger, which he did. He drew the boot on the ball when he saw McKiernan was diving for it, could have caught him in the head. Should have been a red.

That is the key - he didn't (although I do need to watch the incident again).

[Westside]

The players lined up for the throw in, McVeety put out his hand to shake hands with Morgan and got a shoulder to the chest for his troubles so Dara gave him a few shoves in return. Morgan then fouled McVeety trying to go through him on the ground and Cavan got a score from the free. Then in response to more pulling and dragging off the ball Dara pushed him and Morgan pushed Dara in the face, inexplicably got a yellow and he got moved off him and then subbed when it was clear he was a walking liability. And of course you go to the umpire when you've just been struck in the face, you're entitled to look for fair play from the officials.

But yes, McVeety should cut out the crap....

As for saying Grimley went to kick the ball as McKiernan dived on it, since when does a player draw the boot on a ball loose ball instead of going to win it? He deliberately drew the boot on it because he saw McKiernan going to win it, clearly deliberate dangerous play.

The Sunday game are commending Armagh for defensive discipline and you're admitting that they had 1 deserved red and could have easily had 2 more. Interesting indeed.

If you think Grimley deliberately went to hurt McKernan you are way out of line. Jamie Clarke drew the boot on the ball in front of goal - who was he trying to hurt?

As for the comments on the reds I was trying to give a view on what is possible and not what I thought was correct.

He doesn't need to try to hurt him for it to be red. He needs to put him in danger, which he did. He drew the boot on the ball when he saw McKiernan was diving for it, could have caught him in the head. Should have been a red.

That is the key - he didn't (although I do need to watch the incident again).

It's not the key, connecting or not connecting is irrelevant. You can't wildly draw the boot on a ball when a man is diving in head first to win it. It's the act that's dangerous play not the result. And he did connect, just not in the head.

[moysider]

The players lined up for the throw in, McVeety put out his hand to shake hands with Morgan and got a shoulder to the chest for his troubles so Dara gave him a few shoves in return. Morgan then fouled McVeety trying to go through him on the ground and Cavan got a score from the free. Then in response to more pulling and dragging off the ball Dara pushed him and Morgan pushed Dara in the face, inexplicably got a yellow and he got moved off him and then subbed when it was clear he was a walking liability. And of course you go to the umpire when you've just been struck in the face, you're entitled to look for fair play from the officials.

But yes, McVeety should cut out the crap....

As for saying Grimley went to kick the ball as McKiernan dived on it, since when does a player draw the boot on a ball loose ball instead of going to win it? He deliberately drew the boot on it because he saw McKiernan going to win it, clearly deliberate dangerous play.

The Sunday game are commending Armagh for defensive discipline and you're admitting that they had 1 deserved red and could have easily had 2 more. Interesting indeed.

If you think Grimley deliberately went to hurt McKernan you are way out of line. Jamie Clarke drew the boot on the ball in front of goal - who was he trying to hurt?

As for the comments on the reds I was trying to give a view on what is possible and not what I thought was correct.

He doesn't need to try to hurt him for it to be red. He needs to put him in danger, which he did. He drew the boot on the ball when he saw McKiernan was diving for it, could have caught him in the head. Should have been a red.

That is the key - he didn't (although I do need to watch the incident again).

It's not the key, connecting or not connecting is irrelevant. You can't wildly draw the boot on a ball when a man is diving in head first to win it. It's the act that's dangerous play not the result. And he did connect, just not in the head.

Difficult one. No way a red anyway. Grimley was lucky not to more seriously hurt himself there. Could have turned his knee inside out there like Tom Parsons' injury. There was no intent to kick McKiernan imo and even if was a bit reckless it was a yellow at most. The ball was there and player dived in from blind side. 

[befair]

The players lined up for the throw in, McVeety put out his hand to shake hands with Morgan and got a shoulder to the chest for his troubles so Dara gave him a few shoves in return. Morgan then fouled McVeety trying to go through him on the ground and Cavan got a score from the free. Then in response to more pulling and dragging off the ball Dara pushed him and Morgan pushed Dara in the face, inexplicably got a yellow and he got moved off him and then subbed when it was clear he was a walking liability. And of course you go to the umpire when you've just been struck in the face, you're entitled to look for fair play from the officials.

But yes, McVeety should cut out the crap....

As for saying Grimley went to kick the ball as McKiernan dived on it, since when does a player draw the boot on a ball loose ball instead of going to win it? He deliberately drew the boot on it because he saw McKiernan going to win it, clearly deliberate dangerous play.

The Sunday game are commending Armagh for defensive discipline and you're admitting that they had 1 deserved red and could have easily had 2 more. Interesting indeed.

If you think Grimley deliberately went to hurt McKernan you are way out of line. Jamie Clarke drew the boot on the ball in front of goal - who was he trying to hurt?

As for the comments on the reds I was trying to give a view on what is possible and not what I thought was correct.

He doesn't need to try to hurt him for it to be red. He needs to put him in danger, which he did. He drew the boot on the ball when he saw McKiernan was diving for it, could have caught him in the head. Should have been a red.

That is the key - he didn't (although I do need to watch the incident again).

It's not the key, connecting or not connecting is irrelevant. You can't wildly draw the boot on a ball when a man is diving in head first to win it. It's the act that's dangerous play not the result. And he did connect, just not in the head.

Difficult one. No way a red anyway. Grimley was lucky not to more seriously hurt himself there. Could have turned his knee inside out there like Tom Parsons' injury. There was no intent to kick McKiernan imo and even if was a bit reckless it was a yellow at most. The ball was there and player dived in from blind side.

Players are responsible for the safety of other players, which is why Mooney's red card in the last round was correct. Grimley should definitely have received a red; probably what saved him was that McKiernan didn't make a meal of it, unlike the Armagh player's reaction to the Mooney tackle. Cavan need to be a bit more streetwise

[tonto1888]

The players lined up for the throw in, McVeety put out his hand to shake hands with Morgan and got a shoulder to the chest for his troubles so Dara gave him a few shoves in return. Morgan then fouled McVeety trying to go through him on the ground and Cavan got a score from the free. Then in response to more pulling and dragging off the ball Dara pushed him and Morgan pushed Dara in the face, inexplicably got a yellow and he got moved off him and then subbed when it was clear he was a walking liability. And of course you go to the umpire when you've just been struck in the face, you're entitled to look for fair play from the officials.

But yes, McVeety should cut out the crap....

As for saying Grimley went to kick the ball as McKiernan dived on it, since when does a player draw the boot on a ball loose ball instead of going to win it? He deliberately drew the boot on it because he saw McKiernan going to win it, clearly deliberate dangerous play.

The Sunday game are commending Armagh for defensive discipline and you're admitting that they had 1 deserved red and could have easily had 2 more. Interesting indeed.

Not at all. McVeety shoves Morgan first then Morgan shoves him back. McVeety cries to the umpires. Happened a couple of times.
To say Grimley deliberately drew the boot because he saw your man go down for it is ridiculous. And yeah  people go to kick it at times like that. ESP late in a game

[lurganblue]

Armagh were lucky but also probably should have won it. A lot of the Armagh forwards had an off day and I would hope for improvements there next day. Although it is difficult for them considering the amount of defensive work they have to put in.

No complaints about the reds. Grimley's was a yellow for me and the ref had some strange inconsistencies regarding what he deemed a black card.

Mackey was fantastic when introduced. The only surprise is that he didn't kick that winner.

Armagh trying to hang onto a one point lead by fist passing across the backline is a painful watch.  I would much rather that they have a bit more courage to attack and if needs be lose the ball higher up the pitch, or of course score themselves.

After Jarly óg won the first throw in Cavan obviously decided that they would just blatantly take him out by the roots for any throw in thereafter.  Something the ref was happy enough with.

[mackers]

I hope they get a decent strong ref like Gough for the next game that will be wise to mcgeeneys dirt and nip it in the bud early and a football game break out and let the best football team win.

I thought someone had stolen your password you were being that reasonable before the game but you've returned to form now 
That said I find it very difficult to defend James Morgan.  I've said it umpteen times on here, he's a liability. Geezer did the right thing in hooking him before he got the inevitable second yellow.  Niall Grimley's kick was clearly reckless play and a yellow card, no more. Armagh competed very well against a team playing a division higher than them and I'd see the glass as half full after the game.  No reason to think we can't compete the next day. Hopefully Jarly Og is fit as he's been a revelation in fairness.  I'd be worried that McKiernan can't play as poorly again though.  Soupy Campbell was the only man to show leadership in the extra time.  He repeatedly showed for the ball when others were hiding.  He tried to drive us forward when others were dithering and deserved his point.

[APM]

Just checking in that shields is ok, I believe he died 3 times today before being revived.

The referee was an embarrassment and not the first time cavan have suffered at his hands. Faulkner black was pathetic refereeing. Mcvetty was mauled, pulled and dragged all day and barely got a free. One foul for a cavan man was yellow, Armagh got away with all sorts of filth. Typical mcgeeney shite, all about the black arts against a weak referee.

Disappointed with a few of our lads and they'll have to really  improve next time. Gearoid went missing for too long. Martin Reilly at FF didn't work and Madden totally out of the game. Yet I think there is more for cavan to improve on next day and that hopefully will see them through.

Would be great if people could comment on the game without the hysterics.  This is the kind of nonsense that I can't abide on here the day after a game.  Throughout the game, I thought Armagh had to work harder for their frees, but in the interest of correcting for my own inevitable bias, it's better to say nothing instead of making a fool of myself.  Others might want to do the same. 

Let's imagine that all of the incidents that annoyed you, were instead perpetrated by Cavan players.  Let's also imagine that all of the Cavan fouls were perpetrated by Armagh players.  It will take some convincing to persuade me that you wouldn't still be defending Cavan and calling out McGeeney and Armagh for all the dirt of the day.  You'll say not; but that's the way football supporters are I suppose. 

In terms of the football -  really enjoyed it.  Had the feel of a game 10-20 years ago.  Big crowd in Clones and plenty of drama and atmosphere.  Same for the Down match.  Cian Mackey is a serious footballer - really enjoy watching him and thought he was do a job for Cavan when he came on yesterday.  Armagh had a couple of decent chances to win. Rafferty and Clarke missed good chances from play in scorable positions. Paul Hughes had a chance to go 5 up shortly after the goal.  The business of defending a 1 point by retaining possession inside your own 50 is very risky and would put years on you. 

I cannot understand why Armagh didn't push up on Cavan's kickouts.  When they did, Galligan hit two balls over the sideline.  Cavan scored 17 points and didn't give away possession easily, so I would be very wary of allowing them this cheap possession next week. 

[naka]

The players lined up for the throw in, McVeety put out his hand to shake hands with Morgan and got a shoulder to the chest for his troubles so Dara gave him a few shoves in return. Morgan then fouled McVeety trying to go through him on the ground and Cavan got a score from the free. Then in response to more pulling and dragging off the ball Dara pushed him and Morgan pushed Dara in the face, inexplicably got a yellow and he got moved off him and then subbed when it was clear he was a walking liability. And of course you go to the umpire when you've just been struck in the face, you're entitled to look for fair play from the officials.

But yes, McVeety should cut out the crap....

As for saying Grimley went to kick the ball as McKiernan dived on it, since when does a player draw the boot on a ball loose ball instead of going to win it? He deliberately drew the boot on it because he saw McKiernan going to win it, clearly deliberate dangerous play.

The Sunday game are commending Armagh for defensive discipline and you're admitting that they had 1 deserved red and could have easily had 2 more. Interesting indeed.

If you think Grimley deliberately went to hurt McKernan you are way out of line. Jamie Clarke drew the boot on the ball in front of goal - who was he trying to hurt?

As for the comments on the reds I was trying to give a view on what is possible and not what I thought was correct.

He doesn't need to try to hurt him for it to be red. He needs to put him in danger, which he did. He drew the boot on the ball when he saw McKiernan was diving for it, could have caught him in the head. Should have been a red.

tbf westside the same could be said for the two challenges on burns one of which resulted in stitches and concussion. it was obvious both times that he was being taken out.
as the guys say we all see what we want to see.
decent game, draw was a fair result and for me both sending offs were correct.
your number 11 could have seen red earlier for the smack on shields which was straight across from where i was sitting and was uncalled for as both guys weren`t at any shananigans.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Just checking in that shields is ok, I believe he died 3 times today before being revived.

The referee was an embarrassment and not the first time cavan have suffered at his hands. Faulkner black was pathetic refereeing. Mcvetty was mauled, pulled and dragged all day and barely got a free. One foul for a cavan man was yellow, Armagh got away with all sorts of filth. Typical mcgeeney shite, all about the black arts against a weak referee.

Disappointed with a few of our lads and they'll have to really  improve next time. Gearoid went missing for too long. Martin Reilly at FF didn't work and Madden totally out of the game. Yet I think there is more for cavan to improve on next day and that hopefully will see them through.

Would be great if people could comment on the game without the hysterics.  This is the kind of nonsense that I can't abide on here the day after a game.  Throughout the game, I thought Armagh had to work harder for their frees, but in the interest of correcting for my own inevitable bias, it's better to say nothing instead of making a fool of myself.  Others might want to do the same. 

Thank you for taking the time to write that. I simply could not have been bothered. Trying to ask some people on this forum to try and be objective is simply a futile exercise.

[general_lee]

Think some of the Armagh forwards were starting to believe their own hype so hopefully yesterday brought a few of them back down to earth. Really a game Armagh should have won, chances weren't taken that should have been, numerical advantage as well as on the scoreboard but somehow let slip. Cavan to me are really well organised and seemed to have a spare man when down to 14 whereas Armagh looked reluctant to push on and break tackles when the game was in the melting pot; felt we had to  try and peg on another score to put more daylight between the sides when four points up. Didn't see the point in bringing on Murnin if they weren't going to play any ball into him. Donaghy is an eejit, don't know what he was thinking and is lucky Cavan didn't get a point as a result. Kickouts need worked on as does the throw in. James Morgan and one or two others  need to be more disciplined, especially in the face of provocation from Cavan players.

On the positive side of things we live to fight another day. Mackey when he came on was outstanding finding space to shoot and nearly won the game for Cavan, however When they had that momentum plenty of fight was shown and we managed to keep them out. Thought Stefan Campbell was unlucky to be subbed off as he seemed to be the only one wanting to drive at the Cavan defence and take men on, seemed refreshed when he came back on again though. Jarly Og put in a good performance as did Jemar Hall and Aidan Nugent. It's difficult to call a winner, Cavan on paper will be favourites for the replay but if Armagh can tidy up a bit at the back and be a tad more adventurous up front then who knows

[general_lee]

The players lined up for the throw in, McVeety put out his hand to shake hands with Morgan and got a shoulder to the chest for his troubles so Dara gave him a few shoves in return. Morgan then fouled McVeety trying to go through him on the ground and Cavan got a score from the free. Then in response to more pulling and dragging off the ball Dara pushed him and Morgan pushed Dara in the face, inexplicably got a yellow and he got moved off him and then subbed when it was clear he was a walking liability. And of course you go to the umpire when you've just been struck in the face, you're entitled to look for fair play from the officials.

But yes, McVeety should cut out the crap....

As for saying Grimley went to kick the ball as McKiernan dived on it, since when does a player draw the boot on a ball loose ball instead of going to win it? He deliberately drew the boot on it because he saw McKiernan going to win it, clearly deliberate dangerous play.

The Sunday game are commending Armagh for defensive discipline and you're admitting that they had 1 deserved red and could have easily had 2 more. Interesting indeed.

If you think Grimley deliberately went to hurt McKernan you are way out of line. Jamie Clarke drew the boot on the ball in front of goal - who was he trying to hurt?

As for the comments on the reds I was trying to give a view on what is possible and not what I thought was correct.

He doesn't need to try to hurt him for it to be red. He needs to put him in danger, which he did. He drew the boot on the ball when he saw McKiernan was diving for it, could have caught him in the head. Should have been a red.

tbf westside the same could be said for the two challenges on burns one of which resulted in stitches and concussion. it was obvious both times that he was being taken out.
as the guys say we all see what we want to see.
decent game, draw was a fair result and for me both sending offs were correct.
your number 11 could have seen red earlier for the smack on shields which was straight across from where i was sitting and was uncalled for as both guys weren`t at any shananigans.

Yeah I think I saw McVeety throw an elbow as it's not often Shields loses his cool. Would need to watch the match coverage again later though. Cavan are the perennial yaps though

[Ethan Tremblay]

Observations on the game:
Again Armagh cannot seem to dominate a team and put a game to bed.

The ref was inconsistent with his decision making throughout for both teams.  Both teams can feel hard done by for some but not all decisions.  The game might be getting to fast for 1 man in the middle to handle. 

Grimley trying to kick the ball, I think he made a genuine attempt at that, and leaving a stray foot out he is lucky nothing worse happened him. 
Its refreshing to see two young hungry players stepping up to the plate and taking the burden of responsibility for the team in Burns and O'Neil.  Both again stood out and look well beyond their years. 

Mackay is a class act and a great player to watch, always seems to make the correct decision and hungry to get on the ball, he turned the game in my opinion.

Now that both teams know what each other is about, not sure how next week is going to fair out.  I doubt Burns will have the impact in the middle he did yesterday, and I doubt Reily is going to be as quiet next time out either. 

As mentioned on the tv, Ulster has delivered some cracking games so far.   

[gander]

The players lined up for the throw in, McVeety put out his hand to shake hands with Morgan and got a shoulder to the chest for his troubles so Dara gave him a few shoves in return. Morgan then fouled McVeety trying to go through him on the ground and Cavan got a score from the free. Then in response to more pulling and dragging off the ball Dara pushed him and Morgan pushed Dara in the face, inexplicably got a yellow and he got moved off him and then subbed when it was clear he was a walking liability. And of course you go to the umpire when you've just been struck in the face, you're entitled to look for fair play from the officials.

But yes, McVeety should cut out the crap....

As for saying Grimley went to kick the ball as McKiernan dived on it, since when does a player draw the boot on a ball loose ball instead of going to win it? He deliberately drew the boot on it because he saw McKiernan going to win it, clearly deliberate dangerous play.

The Sunday game are commending Armagh for defensive discipline and you're admitting that they had 1 deserved red and could have easily had 2 more. Interesting indeed.

If you think Grimley deliberately went to hurt McKernan you are way out of line. Jamie Clarke drew the boot on the ball in front of goal - who was he trying to hurt?

As for the comments on the reds I was trying to give a view on what is possible and not what I thought was correct.

He doesn't need to try to hurt him for it to be red. He needs to put him in danger, which he did. He drew the boot on the ball when he saw McKiernan was diving for it, could have caught him in the head. Should have been a red.

tbf westside the same could be said for the two challenges on burns one of which resulted in stitches and concussion. it was obvious both times that he was being taken out.
as the guys say we all see what we want to see.
decent game, draw was a fair result and for me both sending offs were correct.
your number 11 could have seen red earlier for the smack on shields which was straight across from where i was sitting and was uncalled for as both guys weren`t at any shananigans.

the incident where Burns got hurt was actually a collision between him and Grimley.  Only major one the ref got wrong was Cavans first black card, wasnt a dirty game

[tonto1888]

The players lined up for the throw in, McVeety put out his hand to shake hands with Morgan and got a shoulder to the chest for his troubles so Dara gave him a few shoves in return. Morgan then fouled McVeety trying to go through him on the ground and Cavan got a score from the free. Then in response to more pulling and dragging off the ball Dara pushed him and Morgan pushed Dara in the face, inexplicably got a yellow and he got moved off him and then subbed when it was clear he was a walking liability. And of course you go to the umpire when you've just been struck in the face, you're entitled to look for fair play from the officials.

But yes, McVeety should cut out the crap....

As for saying Grimley went to kick the ball as McKiernan dived on it, since when does a player draw the boot on a ball loose ball instead of going to win it? He deliberately drew the boot on it because he saw McKiernan going to win it, clearly deliberate dangerous play.

The Sunday game are commending Armagh for defensive discipline and you're admitting that they had 1 deserved red and could have easily had 2 more. Interesting indeed.

If you think Grimley deliberately went to hurt McKernan you are way out of line. Jamie Clarke drew the boot on the ball in front of goal - who was he trying to hurt?

As for the comments on the reds I was trying to give a view on what is possible and not what I thought was correct.

He doesn't need to try to hurt him for it to be red. He needs to put him in danger, which he did. He drew the boot on the ball when he saw McKiernan was diving for it, could have caught him in the head. Should have been a red.

tbf westside the same could be said for the two challenges on burns one of which resulted in stitches and concussion. it was obvious both times that he was being taken out.
as the guys say we all see what we want to see.
decent game, draw was a fair result and for me both sending offs were correct.
your number 11 could have seen red earlier for the smack on shields which was straight across from where i was sitting and was uncalled for as both guys weren`t at any shananigans.

the incident where Burns got hurt was actually a collision between him and Grimley.  Only major one the ref got wrong was Cavans first black card, wasnt a dirty game

While he did collide with Grimley if you watch it again you will see what actually happened to cause the collision