Boxing

[An Laoch]

Nice question, I've seen most of the old tapes, but it's hard to judge the oldtimers really...but here goes.

1) Ali - the guy completely changed the sport. A stunning talent and extraordinary character (in the sporting sense rather than the comedic - where he was also an extraordinary character)

2) Duran - if you ever get a chance to watch the fight where he beat Leonard you will see a man incredibly determined
and driven, using every trick in the book to win. He was never a boxer, but as a fighter he was the king.

3) Sugar Ray Robinson - A man with dazzling speed and a fantastic record. Reckoned by those from the era to be the greatest by far.

4) Julio Cesar Chavez - Born to box, and did so for as long as he was physically able. A heart and determination surpassing all others.

5) Erm....controversially....Floyd Mayweather - I have seen no one with the natural ability and reflexes he has. Ok he didn't look great against De La Hoya, but look at how much weight he gave up. Back down the weights Mayweather was AWESOME. He narrowly pips Roy Jones to make my top 5.

But I could probably give you a completely different top 5 tomorrow which would include the vastly underrated Lennox Lewis. When do I get to Tyson you ask? Well I think he was fortunate in his timing but that's another post for another day.

I've been staying up for the 3am fights for about20 years, I think Tyson v Williams was my first when I was about 8!

[Tyrones own]

  "But I could probably give you a completely different top 5 tomorrow which would include the vastly underrated Lennox Lewis. When do I get to Tyson you ask? Well I think he was fortunate in his timing but that's another post for another day."


  Under rated my hole, at his best he was only a big girl
Where was he when Tyson, Holyfield and the likes were at their best, hiding thats where!
hid behind and fought a bunch of nobodies his whole career then steped up when
both Tyson and Holyfield were past it, beat them then retired citing that there was no competion left for him.
Give me a break.

[gallsman]

Tyrone's Own-  where was Lewis when Tyson and Holyfield were in their prime, you ask? Being ducked that's where he was. Bowe (beat Holyfield twice) refused to fight him and for years fighters used Lewis' subsequent loss to McCall as an excuse for not fighting him. You question Lewis' motives for retiring? What other credible challengers were there out there? He'd beaten the better of the Klitschkos, even if it was only on cuts. He wouldn't have cut any less easily in a rematch. Rahman again? As good a boxer as James Toney is, he's still a blown up Super Middlewieght who earned a credible draw with Rahman. Jones? Jones didn't really want it, and subsequent fights have shown that the Ruiz fight was by far and away the peak of his career. The only way from there was down, and Ruiz vs. Lewis would have been laughable

Never mind Duran vs. Leonard, watch Duran vs. Barkley for pure guts and will to survive.

I resent beign called a West Belfast man!

[Tyrones own]

  My point exactly, some fierce scary names there alright, McCaul knocked him out and he was a farce, Rahman knocked him out,
  He refused to fight Ruiz, Klitchko had him well beaten before the fight was stopped for a cut who might i add wanted a rematch
which came to be the result of Lewis retiring, he knew well he'd be found out.
So I'll reiterate a point made earlier, they were all nobodies and he struggled against most all of them and ran away from the others
End of.

[CiKe]

Tyrone's Own. Not sure if you're suggesting Tyson was better than Lewis and in their respective peaks i'm not sure. The fact however is, Lewis fought better names, the best on Tyson's win list being Spinks, Witherspoon and Bonecrusher Smith.

Like GalwayBhoy not keen on including people have barely seen fight so here are my top five from last 20 odd years in no particular order:

Pernell Whitaker
Roy Jones Jr
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Julio Cesar Chavez
Ricardo Lopez

[Hound]

There is no doubt Lennox Lewis was the best heavyweight of his generation.

I remember his awesome display against Razor Ruddock when he demolished him in two rounds. That was a title eliminator, with the winner to fight Riddick Bowe. Bowe ran scared though, Lewis had knocked him out in the Olympics and Bowe knew it would happen again so decided to vacate rather than fight. That was very unfortunate for Lewis's career - he would have got a lot more credit a lot earlier if Bowe hadnt been chicken.

Any heavyweight can be knocked out if they're caught off guard and caught plum. That happened to Lewis v McCall, and it did adversely affect Lewis for the rest of his career as it made him a little more negative than he should have been. He was still the best around though. And while he was twice beaten in his career, he avenged both defeats.

[glens73]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/6633887.stm

Very sad news, involved in probably one of the best fights ever against Castillo.

[behind the wire]

thought that question would create a bit of debate, everyone will have their opinion - its all just a bit of craic. keep the opinions coming.

also forgot about roy jones junior when setting out my list, one of the best pound for pound boxers there has been, especially in recent years anyway.

gallsman - sorry for the west belfast label.

[lynchbhoy]

since boxing went PPV I have hardly seen much of it this past 15 years - at least.

The boxers that I recall watching that were great were
Ali,Tyson, Hagler,Sugar Ray Leonard

with Hearns, Duran, Mugabe all involved in superb fights with the middleweights above (mostly losing to them all)

Marvellous Marvin Hagler v John the beast mugabe - still etched on my mind as a fantastic frenetic all out brawl of a boxing match

In the late 80's some cracking fights between the brit boxers
Benn, Eubanks, Watson and was it McCallum?

Terry Marsh was also a classy and callous boxer, but I suppose could say he generally fought no hopers.

Would love to get to see boxing on TV again.

[Declan]

Didn't get to see all the fight but it seems like Oscars legs gave out on him and Mayweathers greater accuracy did just about enough to get the call. Interestingly though Oscar came out with the ould chestnut about him being the champ and that Mayweather hadn't done enough to take the title. If Mayweather wants to be considered amongst the all time greats he'll have to do more than box like an amatuer fro 12 rounds though in my opinion.

My alltime top 5:
1) Robinson - The original and the best Sugar
2) Ali  - Transformed how boxing was perceived and how to fight
3) Louis - Top of the heap when there were only 8 champions
4) Armstrong - Hammerin Hank - a multiple belt winner when they meant something.
5) Leonard - Best of that fabulous bunch of welters/middles that were around in the 80's heyday. 

[An Laoch]

  Under rated my hole, at his best he was only a big girl
Where was he when Tyson, Holyfield and the likes were at their best, hiding thats where!

I can't really add a lot to Gallsmans answer to this, he's spot on. Lewis was dodged consistently but comprehensively beat anyone put in front of him including the "baddest man on earth".

[gallsman]

Christ, that's some sad news about Corrales! He was on the slide, but boy those Castillo fights were something else. RIP.

Tyrone's Own- What I'm saying is that there was nobody left for him, so why not retire? He did fight some bums, yeah, but every decent challenger got a look in as well. The McCall fight was a blip, and in retrospect, McCall turned out to be a nutjob capable of losing to Bruno. Lewis made amends the night McCall cried his eyes out. Rahman got a lucky punch in against a cocky Lewis who was too concerned with Ocean's Eleven than a title fight. He came back and knocked him out in the rematch. Klitschko was beaten, cuts or not. There was no way he could continue, As I said, he would have cut up just as badly in a rematch.

If we're doing the fighters of our generation thing, I'll go for:

1) Chavez (I know the Whitaker draw was lucky, but 89-0, come on!)
2) Jones
3) Whitaker
4) Azumah Nelson
5) Floyd

I know Lopez retired undefeated, but I've simply never seen him. Straw-weight gets virtually no exposure!

[Uladh]

Lewis was the best heavyweight of my sport watching lifetime. he'd have wiped the floor with klitshko in his prime and as someone said, fighting ruiz would have been a waste of time. bowe (who he beat in the olympics), tyson and holyfield avoided him throughout his prime. king wouldn't let him at either of the last two because it'd have taken control of the golden calf away from king. Razor Ruddock took tyson the distance twice and on occasion tyson hit him with everything and couldn't put him down. King thought he was ridding himself of Lewis by making him face ruddock in a "final eliminator" to fight tyson. Lewis demolished ruddock in one of the most explosive demonstrations of speed & power you're ever likely to see. what happened next? no title shot for lewis.

granted holyfield and tyson were done when they finally fought lewis but niether bout was really a contest. Lewis lost two fights to lucky punches when he was past his best, casual about anyone being able to challenge him and not conditioned. it happens every fighter who slips into the comfort zone.

Lewis, holyfoeld and tyson, along with bowe to a lesser extent, could've perpetuated a golden era for heavyweight boxing if they'd fought each other at the right times and not allowed promoters to dictate theur career paths. but in my opinion lewis would've prevailed against them all. he'd have destroyed bowe and would've knocked tyson out every time. holyfield in his priime would've been the icing. he'd have kept coming back for more even if lewis put him down and it'd have been interesting to see how lewis would've dealt with that kind of mindset. pity none of it transpired.

My top 5 would be

1) Clay

2) Robinson

3) Frazier

4) Lewis

5) Jones

[An Laoch]

Love that picture Uladh! That's Mayweather all over, gloves down by his hips making an all-time great look like someone swinging digs on the dancfloor full of bulmers.

Interesting to see Frazier in your list - he'd struggle to make my top 10 heavyweight list.

[heganboy]

anybody else rate Hagler? marvellous Marvin vs Hitman Hearns was a great great fight , not to mention that he beat Leonard despite what the judges said- though I would rate Leonard as a better fighter in his prime.
Eubank, (pre Watson fight) was a pleasure to watch, however there were times subsequent to that fight when he refused to finish a fight off with the knock out punch (collins). Eubank Benn and later Collins made up a nice little division I thought