Gaels amalgamations

[clonadmad]

We will never know what Arles could have achieved because they blew their chance to achieve their potential. Nobody to blame but themselves .

Only in Laois would this situation arise, this situation is a microcosm of Laois football as a whole. Shooting ourselves in the foot and then living the rest of lives saying oh what might have been if things had of been handled correctly. We are all guilty of it at times, albeit some more than others.  Typical Laois.

Indeed

Is there any other county in Ireland which has as many multiple clubs in rural parishes as what laois has?

i can only speak for the hurling side but you tend to have 1 club per parish in the likes of Offaly,Tipp excluding Clonmel,Carrick and Thurles,Kilkenny excluding the City and Galway excluding the city also.

[Don Draper]

We will never know what Arles could have achieved because they blew their chance to achieve their potential. Nobody to blame but themselves .

Only in Laois would this situation arise, this situation is a microcosm of Laois football as a whole. Shooting ourselves in the foot and then living the rest of lives saying oh what might have been if things had of been handled correctly. We are all guilty of it at times, albeit some more than others.  Typical Laois.

Have you ever heard of Errigal Ciaran?

[Unlaoised]

Mountmellick and Ballyfin again. I'm not even going to bother because I have posted in detail my opposition to this particular arrangement in the past.
And there is no point in lauding Ballyfin for being a dual club at Senior level. Ballyfin GAELS comprises a massive area with a significant population in both codes. They will eventually reap what they are currently sowing- both clubs.

What are you on about....

Ballyfin might be a big parish area wise but they have a small population.

They have done very well for about 20 years now in both codes and are a credit the themselves.

I'm not sure about the Gaels routes in recent years but to be fair its been only 2-3 players max on either team.

Its a good avenue for slieve bloom lads to play senior football and the same for mountmellick lads wanting to hurl.



I said Ballyfin plus mountmellick would work well together as they were a big force under age for a long time.

I'm not saying I in anyway agree with it.

Overall the weaker clubs in senior(which Ballyfin are) should combine with a club of junior status to allow the level of competition to be better and allow the the likes of the slieve bloom lads or Barrowhouse lads or whoever it is to get a taste of senior football.

I know when I was young I would have loved that chance I never got it and its a big regret of mine I never played senior for anyone in Laois !

[Zooming around]

Me too. I never hurled or kicked senior despite lining out for my club in both codes for many years (still do). I thiink there has to be an avenue for lads from smaller clubs to get a chance to play at the top level. Regional teams being the obvious one here.

However, these scatterrgun one-off amalgamations which vary from year to year and code to code are quite detrimental even though some don't see it.

[clonadmad]

If these Gaels outfits had to give a commitment that they would be in place for say a minimum of 3 years in order for it to be approved by the C/B,it might stop some of these short term amalgamations.

Break up before the 3 years is up,the penalty is that you can't enter into another amalgamation for 3 years after the date of your original agreement.

I.e. Have an agreement in place 2018-2020,break up before 2020,it's 2023 before the C/B can approve any other Gaels proposal from the clubs involved.

[Keyser Söze]

Mountmellick and Ballyfin again. I'm not even going to bother because I have posted in detail my opposition to this particular arrangement in the past.
And there is no point in lauding Ballyfin for being a dual club at Senior level. Ballyfin GAELS comprises a massive area with a significant population in both codes. They will eventually reap what they are currently sowing- both clubs.

What are you on about....

Ballyfin might be a big parish area wise but they have a small population.

They have done very well for about 20 years now in both codes and are a credit the themselves.

Neither of those statements are true (in my opinion)
It is a long long time since you could label the schools in Ballyfin parish as small. I posted details of this before. Look it up, take my word for it, or disagree based on a nostalgic notion that Ballyfin has a smaller population than other areas around them. Up to you.
They have made no effort to stand alone at juvenile level for the past 30 odd years. Hopping in and out of arrangements with Mountmellick, Camross, Slieve Bloom and Castletown.
Their "success" at adult level has been while "accommodating" players from Mountmellick (in hurling) and Slieve Bloom and Camross (in football).
And it is quite generous to say they have done very well for "about 20 years". Past 10 years maybe.

I have constantly held the line that I disagree with Ballyfin, and particularly Mountmellick, amalagamating with anyone- especially at juvenile. I have no axe to gring with either club EXCEPT that Laois cannot afford the luxury of pulling one juvenile team per grade from the huge number of kids available to this join up.
There are those who argued that Ballyfin and Mountmellick were forced to take this route temporarily because they wanted to get their house in order.
The fact is it is not a temporary measure. It is now a handy way out.

It is my opinion that SENIOR clubs should not have the option of joining up with other clubs. If you are promoted to senior you should be on your own. Then you are good enough to stay there or you are relegated. There are clubs in Laois (in both codes) who are so desperate to stay senior that they will join up with anyone (or attempt to) in order to stay senior. Clubs who are making an honest effort to maximise what they have are going to be continuously relegated at the expense of these "temporary little arrangements". One of Laois' biggest issues at intercounty level is that we are picking from such a small number of clubs, some people here want to reduce this number further.

For Laois GAA to prosper we need the maximum number of clubs doing things properly. That is quality coaching provided to everyone- thus producing the maximum number of players possible. This is not easy. Joining up 2 or 3 or 4 clubs and cherrypicking the best 4, 5 or 6 from each club is easy. Is it going to improve either the clubs involved or the county in the long run? No.

I haven't stated anywhere that players from non senior clubs should be denied the chance to play senior. I simply don't think they should be allowed to prop up existing senior teams. If you want to "laud" a senior football club for doing things the right way try somebody like Killeshin.

[portlaoisekid]

We will never know what Arles could have achieved because they blew their chance to achieve their potential. Nobody to blame but themselves .

Only in Laois would this situation arise, this situation is a microcosm of Laois football as a whole. Shooting ourselves in the foot and then living the rest of lives saying oh what might have been if things had of been handled correctly. We are all guilty of it at times, albeit some more than others.  Typical Laois.

Have you ever heard of Errigal Ciaran?

god No , are they a soccer team?

[Don Draper]

We will never know what Arles could have achieved because they blew their chance to achieve their potential. Nobody to blame but themselves .

Only in Laois would this situation arise, this situation is a microcosm of Laois football as a whole. Shooting ourselves in the foot and then living the rest of lives saying oh what might have been if things had of been handled correctly. We are all guilty of it at times, albeit some more than others.  Typical Laois.

Have you ever heard of Errigal Ciaran?

god No , are they a soccer team?

Its odd, because you believe acrimonious splits are "typical Laois", when in fact they have happened and continue to happen in successful counties. A lot of people lamenting the Arles split tend to gloss over the fact that both clubs have been strong since the split, especially when making the senior ranks, and have done as much, if not more for developing players for Laois than some other larger urban areas. I don't believe the split weakened Laois football at all. It caused issues in the village, but thats an issue for them themselves, and little concern for others.

[redsetanta]

I would agree with Don on this. There were 40 players playing senior between both clubs as opposed to 20. Kilcruise won a senior and arguably could have won more had it not been for the dominance of an excellent Portlaoise team. Killeen contested finals. Yes, they may have won more as a combined team but that's a matter of opinion. Was the senior championship better for having both those teams in the senior ranks, definately. It all gave the county a feisty derby.
It's a non argument anyway because while both teams were competing well there was never going to be an amalgamation so it's a 'what if' argument. Same could be had for most if not all parishes.

[Don Draper]

I would agree with Don on this. There were 40 players playing senior between both clubs as opposed to 20. Kilcruise won a senior and arguably could have won more had it not been for the dominance of an excellent Portlaoise team. Killeen contested finals. Yes, they may have won more as a combined team but that's a matter of opinion. Was the senior championship better for having both those teams in the senior ranks, definately. It all gave the county a feisty derby.
It's a non argument anyway because while both teams were competing well there was never going to be an amalgamation so it's a 'what if' argument. Same could be had for most if not all parishes.

The proposed amalgamation of St Michaels, while making a stronger unit "in theory" would actually have been detrimental for all 3 clubs, and Laois as a whole. All 3 clubs have contributed handsomely to Laois teams over the years, and taking the last 6 years, all 3 have contested county finals. The theory that St Michaels would have been better, is just that, a theory. And had it come to pass, the figures in fact would have been 20 odd, instead of 60 plus. The acrimony in Arles is unfortunate, but its not caused Laois intercounty teams any issues as such, so its a moot point for the argument posed here.

[High Fielder]

I would agree with Don on this. There were 40 players playing senior between both clubs as opposed to 20. Kilcruise won a senior and arguably could have won more had it not been for the dominance of an excellent Portlaoise team. Killeen contested finals. Yes, they may have won more as a combined team but that's a matter of opinion. Was the senior championship better for having both those teams in the senior ranks, definately. It all gave the county a feisty derby.
It's a non argument anyway because while both teams were competing well there was never going to be an amalgamation so it's a 'what if' argument. Same could be had for most if not all parishes.

That's not true. It has always lurked in the background. It has been shot down by the hard liners but there have been a number of unsuccessful, mostly small meetings between players from both clubs. The anomaly, the elephant in the room,  is the underage amalgamation. So they know they have a problem numerically and they have rightly cast aside their differences for the greater good. Forget the past, because it was freakish that they had enough players at one period in time whereby they could stand on their own feet. That time is coming to an end and an inevitable decline for both clubs will follow. This is about the future, and it's unfair if those hard liners deprive their members of a chance to play senior football.

[Don Draper]

I would agree with Don on this. There were 40 players playing senior between both clubs as opposed to 20. Kilcruise won a senior and arguably could have won more had it not been for the dominance of an excellent Portlaoise team. Killeen contested finals. Yes, they may have won more as a combined team but that's a matter of opinion. Was the senior championship better for having both those teams in the senior ranks, definately. It all gave the county a feisty derby.
It's a non argument anyway because while both teams were competing well there was never going to be an amalgamation so it's a 'what if' argument. Same could be had for most if not all parishes.

That's not true. It has always lurked in the background. It has been shot down by the hard liners but there have been a number of unsuccessful, mostly small meetings between players from both clubs. The anomaly, the elephant in the room,  is the underage amalgamation. So they know they have a problem numerically and they have rightly cast aside their differences for the greater good. Forget the past, because it was freakish that they had enough players at one period in time whereby they could stand on their own feet. That time is coming to an end and an inevitable decline for both clubs will follow. This is about the future, and it's unfair if those hard liners deprive their members of a chance to play senior football.

You're making a different argument. The one put forward was that it was bad for Laois that the split happened, when it fact it wasn't. That it was bad for all clubs that the split happened, when in fact it wasn't. Now its entirely possible going forward, things may have to change, but thats a different argument.

[High Fielder]

Well then I'll put forward a different slant. It will be detrimental to them and Laois if they stand still and do nothing. In the interests of balance and fairness, I agree with your points above. The situation now though is very different

[Don Draper]

Well then I'll put forward a different slant. It will be detrimental to them and Laois if they stand still and do nothing. In the interests of balance and fairness, I agree with your points above. The situation now though is very different

As things stand, they are not standing still, as Na Fianna Óg shows. Lets see where that takes them.

[Laoiseabu]

We are now nearly at the stage where neither Kileen or Kilcruise will be able to maintain senior status without an amalgamation