26 County General Election 2020

[yellowcard]

Sinn Féin still going with the myth that they "won" the election it seems.

That probably depends on how you define 'won'. In terms of getting most votes they won with SF 535K (37 seats), FF 484K (38 seats) & FG 455K (35 seats). In terms of seats FF could declare themselves as winners but the reality is that there was no clear winner, nothing is ever that black or white. One thing is clear though and that is that SF have a mandate whether people agree with them or not. Those who are SF bashers have absolute tunnel vision when it comes to their opposition to them and nothing will ever change their opinion. They are largely of an older generation who remember the troubles or who have suffered at the hands of the IRA campaign and that is fine. Everyone has their own experiences. However, equally they also have to accept that there is a younger generation of voters who have no recollection of the violence and who have for whatever reason decided to go with SF. It's a frustration and complete lack of empathy from the old established order that has been their downfall and I think some of these people live in a sheltered bubble. They are far removed from ordinary people on the ground.

I certainly don't think SF have all the answers and would be very dubious about whether some of their policies can actually work in the real world but the other parties would be better equipped to try and get their own house in order and work out why there is a complete disconnect rather than continue to obsess over another party. The whole dismissive attitude is only playing into SF's hands. Some of it is genuine worry about the links to the old brigade but some of it is also a class issue and a dismissive 'I'm alright Jack' attitude.   

[Lar Naparka]

Micheal Martin has played right into SF's hand since the election. By dismissing them completely I can't help but feel that he is only bolstering support for them. FG have now joined the attacks in the last day or two and Drew Harris' comments yesterday about the SF links to the IRA army council being still intact are very curious in their timing. Continuing to bang the old IRA drum will have less resonance with people now that the old brigade are almost phased out even if a few linger in the background but for anybody under the age of 40, it is not a pressing issue. People just want to give the old established order of FF & FG a bloody nose and by them attacking SF it is only helping to feed the narrative of the establishment against the people that SF want to create. If they really are hell bent on not going into government with SF then I'm not sure what else they can actually do to win public support and confidence but I'd guess that the longer they keep SF out in the cold the more that the public anger will build.

+1
I am in total agreement with you. That's the most objective assessment of the Shinner surge that has been posted here.

[Snapchap]

What's with these "rallies"?
Are they meant to frighten FF and FG out of nominating a Taoiseach or Independents into voting for MLou as Taoiseach??
Or to convince FF to agree a Coalition with SF?

Or are they just SF reps maintaing contact with their base? They are public meetings in hotel rooms. Sinn Féin hold them routinely. As so other parties. There is only a fuss this time because FF/FG and the Dublin media are taking absolutely any opportunity, no matter how utterly trivial, to attack SF. I've seen a number of figures (including one current FF TD) attempt to compare these public meetings to be held by SF to a nazi rally. One former Green TD said it was reminiscent of Nuremberg. One FG TD on twitter who has been busy attacking SF over a public meeting was heavily advertising a previous FG one using the same platform.

Surely, SOMEONE is FF/FG is bound to realise this nonsense is counter-productive?

[mouview]

Micheal Martin has played right into SF's hand since the election. By dismissing them completely I can't help but feel that he is only bolstering support for them. FG have now joined the attacks in the last day or two and Drew Harris' comments yesterday about the SF links to the IRA army council being still intact are very curious in their timing. Continuing to bang the old IRA drum will have less resonance with people now that the old brigade are almost phased out even if a few linger in the background but for anybody under the age of 40, it is not a pressing issue. People just want to give the old established order of FF & FG a bloody nose and by them attacking SF it is only helping to feed the narrative of the establishment against the people that SF want to create. If they really are hell bent on not going into government with SF then I'm not sure what else they can actually do to win public support and confidence but I'd guess that the longer they keep SF out in the cold the more that the public anger will build.

It is a pressing issue for me; I don't want a political party being controlled by terrorists or shadowy figures in the background anywhere near the running of this country. The Chief policeman in the country was correct and had a duty to call this one out. FG have been consistent all along in their insistence that they will not deal with SF, not just in the past few days.

[Snapchap]

It is a pressing issue for me; I don't want a political party being controlled by terrorists or shadowy figures in the background anywhere near the running of this country. The Chief policeman in the country was correct and had a duty to call this one out. FG have been consistent all along in their insistence that they will not deal with SF, not just in the past few days.

Just how f#@king gullible are you? Wouldn't you say it's strange to hear Drew contradict the findings of the Independent Monitoring Commission since 2008?

"Under PIRA's own rules the Army Council was the body that directed its military campaign. Now that that campaign is well and truly over, the Army Council by deliberate choice is no longer operational or functional."
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/ira-army-council-no-longer-operational-say-imc-376165.html

Furthermore, Drew Harris said he concurs with the position of the PSNI's assessment report. He was referencing a 2015 report which he himself was involved in producing when he was Deputy Chief COnstable of the PSNI (yes - he essentially said he agrees with himself). That report did not say there was an Army Council directing Sinn Féin but rather that "PIRA members believe that the PAC [army council] oversees both PIRA and Sinn Féin with an overarching strategy."

The same year, 2015, the Garda wrote to Padraig McLochlainn TD in response to a question from Padraig. The Garda letter stated:
"An Garda Siochana hold no information or intelligence to support the assertion that the Provisional IRA still maintains it's military structure" (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ERYUQsnXsAAyMDh?format=jpg&name=medium)

I'd have thought anyone with anything between their ears would see this for the B.S. story that it is, and moreso, be far more concerned about the past of the man in charge of policing the state. The Dublin/Monaghan bombings - the worst atrocity of the conflict - was carried out by the UVF's Glennane Gang (a gang armed, directed and protected by the British State and almost exclusively made up of members of the British security forces). Harris has gone above and beyond to block investigations into this gang's activities.

The Historical Enquiries Team was set up to investigate such murders, and was intended to be institutionally independent of the RUC and the PSNI in that it was based in England and had no members who had ever been in either of those forces. It did not have to seek leave from the PSNI in relation to its investigations and it had its own finances. However, most Victims Groups had no confidence in it, and doubted it's independence. They were soon vindicated in that belief. In 2010, none other than Drew Harris brought the HET in under his control as head of Crime Operations Branch of the PSNI. He removed investigative functions from HET officers; stripped it of the power to arrest and question suspects, he took control of their budget, and he closed down their thematic investigation unit which was cross referencing the individual investigations for links, patterns and systems drawing out the involvement of RUC personnel and wider collusion. He then wrote to the families of the victims to tell them they would not be getting an investigation. This letter subverted a decade of assurances that the British Government had made that there would be an independent investigation.

Victims families took the matter to court and won, with Mr Justice Tracey criticising the "extreme" abuse of power in trying to cover up what happened. Justice Tracey also stated that this abuse of power by Harris showed that "the state is not genuinely committed" to addressing the concerns of families. Despite all this, Harris made a pledge to defend and protect the reputation of RUC – a totally discredited, sectarian, murderous police force.

To quote Stephen Travers, survivor of the Miami Showband massacre on hearing of the appointment of Harris: "The Fox is now in charge of the hen-house. What a dreadful betrayal of victims who have been consistently blocked and denied access to evidence by his current office."

But who cares, eh? You'd rather talk manufactured nonsense about the "army council"   

[93-DY-SAM]

It is a pressing issue for me; I don't want a political party being controlled by terrorists or shadowy figures in the background anywhere near the running of this country. The Chief policeman in the country was correct and had a duty to call this one out. FG have been consistent all along in their insistence that they will not deal with SF, not just in the past few days.

So why isn't he and the PSNI doing their job and bringing people in front of the courts for this? You can't have it both ways. Either the Gardaí and/or the PSNI know these people and are not doing their job or there is nothing to this. Which is it?

[Keyser soze]

Micheal Martin has played right into SF's hand since the election. By dismissing them completely I can't help but feel that he is only bolstering support for them. FG have now joined the attacks in the last day or two and Drew Harris' comments yesterday about the SF links to the IRA army council being still intact are very curious in their timing. Continuing to bang the old IRA drum will have less resonance with people now that the old brigade are almost phased out even if a few linger in the background but for anybody under the age of 40, it is not a pressing issue. People just want to give the old established order of FF & FG a bloody nose and by them attacking SF it is only helping to feed the narrative of the establishment against the people that SF want to create. If they really are hell bent on not going into government with SF then I'm not sure what else they can actually do to win public support and confidence but I'd guess that the longer they keep SF out in the cold the more that the public anger will build.

It is a pressing issue for me; I don't want a political party being controlled by terrorists or shadowy figures in the background anywhere near the running of this country. The Chief policeman in the country was correct and had a duty to call this one out. FG have been consistent all along in their insistence that they will not deal with SF, not just in the past few days.

What is your definition of a terrorist?

[mouview]

Seen it defined as "a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims." Which is accurate enough.

Gardai/PSNI can't bring people before the courts for this because they presumably don't have enough evidence or can't get people to testify because of fear.
Why do SF have problems with the special criminal court, a body that has done so much to put serious criminals and terrorists behind bars and make the country safer?

[yellowcard]

Micheal Martin has played right into SF's hand since the election. By dismissing them completely I can't help but feel that he is only bolstering support for them. FG have now joined the attacks in the last day or two and Drew Harris' comments yesterday about the SF links to the IRA army council being still intact are very curious in their timing. Continuing to bang the old IRA drum will have less resonance with people now that the old brigade are almost phased out even if a few linger in the background but for anybody under the age of 40, it is not a pressing issue. People just want to give the old established order of FF & FG a bloody nose and by them attacking SF it is only helping to feed the narrative of the establishment against the people that SF want to create. If they really are hell bent on not going into government with SF then I'm not sure what else they can actually do to win public support and confidence but I'd guess that the longer they keep SF out in the cold the more that the public anger will build.

It is a pressing issue for me; I don't want a political party being controlled by terrorists or shadowy figures in the background anywhere near the running of this country. The Chief policeman in the country was correct and had a duty to call this one out. FG have been consistent all along in their insistence that they will not deal with SF, not just in the past few days.

Of course for some it will still be an issue. I don't believe that if there are any figures giving advice in the background that they are still actively directing terrorism. Personally I think it would be best that SF are not admitted into government this time but it is going to happen sooner or later.  Are Fine Gael going to wait until all of the former IRA figures have died off before they will consider going into government then? Some people are so set in their thinking and feel so threatened as the old established order comes under threat, that they simply can't countenance SF in government at any stage be that now or in 15 years time. Unfortunately that is not democracy either.           

[Snapchap]

Micheal Martin has played right into SF's hand since the election. By dismissing them completely I can't help but feel that he is only bolstering support for them. FG have now joined the attacks in the last day or two and Drew Harris' comments yesterday about the SF links to the IRA army council being still intact are very curious in their timing. Continuing to bang the old IRA drum will have less resonance with people now that the old brigade are almost phased out even if a few linger in the background but for anybody under the age of 40, it is not a pressing issue. People just want to give the old established order of FF & FG a bloody nose and by them attacking SF it is only helping to feed the narrative of the establishment against the people that SF want to create. If they really are hell bent on not going into government with SF then I'm not sure what else they can actually do to win public support and confidence but I'd guess that the longer they keep SF out in the cold the more that the public anger will build.

It is a pressing issue for me; I don't want a political party being controlled by terrorists or shadowy figures in the background anywhere near the running of this country. The Chief policeman in the country was correct and had a duty to call this one out. FG have been consistent all along in their insistence that they will not deal with SF, not just in the past few days.

Of course for some it will still be an issue. I don't believe that if there are any figures giving advice in the background that they are still actively directing terrorism. Personally I think it would be best that SF are not admitted into government this time but it is going to happen sooner or later.  Are Fine Gael going to wait until all of the former IRA figures have died off before they will consider going into government then? Some people are so set in their thinking and feel so threatened as the old established order comes under threat, that they simply can't countenance SF in government at any stage be that now or in 15 years time. Unfortunately that is not democracy either.         

Surely excluding the most popular party from government is not democracy either? And as for the IRA, you don't seriously think that FG/FF's concern is actually about the IRA? It's extinct FFS. FF & FG are purely concerned about power & self-preservation and that requires stemming the SF tide at all costs and if that means going so far as to risk the peace process by trying desperately to conjure up the IRA at every opportunity, then so be it. They are morally bankrupt.

[Angelo]

Micheal Martin has played right into SF's hand since the election. By dismissing them completely I can't help but feel that he is only bolstering support for them. FG have now joined the attacks in the last day or two and Drew Harris' comments yesterday about the SF links to the IRA army council being still intact are very curious in their timing. Continuing to bang the old IRA drum will have less resonance with people now that the old brigade are almost phased out even if a few linger in the background but for anybody under the age of 40, it is not a pressing issue. People just want to give the old established order of FF & FG a bloody nose and by them attacking SF it is only helping to feed the narrative of the establishment against the people that SF want to create. If they really are hell bent on not going into government with SF then I'm not sure what else they can actually do to win public support and confidence but I'd guess that the longer they keep SF out in the cold the more that the public anger will build.

It is a pressing issue for me; I don't want a political party being controlled by terrorists or shadowy figures in the background anywhere near the running of this country. The Chief policeman in the country was correct and had a duty to call this one out. FG have been consistent all along in their insistence that they will not deal with SF, not just in the past few days.

a) The chief policeman in the free state is a former high ranking member of a disbanded and disgraced police force who were involved in colluding and carrying out sectarian murders and suppressing investigations as victims and their families sought justice
b) The chief policeman's views are not based on any sort of concrete evidence whatsoever, they are his subjective views on what others views actually are and given his background, this makes him very much compromised
c) The timing of these comments are very interesting and do not inspire confidence in the police force in the free state after all its recent controversies

[mackers]

Micheal Martin has played right into SF's hand since the election. By dismissing them completely I can't help but feel that he is only bolstering support for them. FG have now joined the attacks in the last day or two and Drew Harris' comments yesterday about the SF links to the IRA army council being still intact are very curious in their timing. Continuing to bang the old IRA drum will have less resonance with people now that the old brigade are almost phased out even if a few linger in the background but for anybody under the age of 40, it is not a pressing issue. People just want to give the old established order of FF & FG a bloody nose and by them attacking SF it is only helping to feed the narrative of the establishment against the people that SF want to create. If they really are hell bent on not going into government with SF then I'm not sure what else they can actually do to win public support and confidence but I'd guess that the longer they keep SF out in the cold the more that the public anger will build.

It is a pressing issue for me; I don't want a political party being controlled by terrorists or shadowy figures in the background anywhere near the running of this country. The Chief policeman in the country was correct and had a duty to call this one out. FG have been consistent all along in their insistence that they will not deal with SF, not just in the past few days.

The hypocrisy of the FG stance (and the FF one also) is just off the scales.  It's OK for unionists to go into power with SF in the north (Simon Coveney was heavily involved in persuading the DUP to go back into partnership with SF) but a month later they refuse point blank to do the very same thing themselves in the south. Do as I say not as I do. Joke.

[Tubberman]

Micheal Martin has played right into SF's hand since the election. By dismissing them completely I can't help but feel that he is only bolstering support for them. FG have now joined the attacks in the last day or two and Drew Harris' comments yesterday about the SF links to the IRA army council being still intact are very curious in their timing. Continuing to bang the old IRA drum will have less resonance with people now that the old brigade are almost phased out even if a few linger in the background but for anybody under the age of 40, it is not a pressing issue. People just want to give the old established order of FF & FG a bloody nose and by them attacking SF it is only helping to feed the narrative of the establishment against the people that SF want to create. If they really are hell bent on not going into government with SF then I'm not sure what else they can actually do to win public support and confidence but I'd guess that the longer they keep SF out in the cold the more that the public anger will build.

It is a pressing issue for me; I don't want a political party being controlled by terrorists or shadowy figures in the background anywhere near the running of this country. The Chief policeman in the country was correct and had a duty to call this one out. FG have been consistent all along in their insistence that they will not deal with SF, not just in the past few days.

The hypocrisy of the FG stance (and the FF one also) is just off the scales.  It's OK for unionists to go into power with SF in the north (Simon Coveney was heavily involved in persuading the DUP to go back into partnership with SF) but a month later they refuse point blank to do the very same thing themselves in the south. Do as I say not as I do. Joke.

The GFA dictates that the largest parties from each community have to share power in the north.
There is no such rule in the south, so FG are quite entitled to say they will not share power with SF.

[Keyser soze]

Seen it defined as "a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims." Which is accurate enough.

Gardai/PSNI can't bring people before the courts for this because they presumably don't have enough evidence or can't get people to testify because of fear.
Why do SF have problems with the special criminal court, a body that has done so much to put serious criminals and terrorists behind bars and make the country safer?

By that defiinition is Drew Harris a terrorist?

[mouview]

Micheal Martin has played right into SF's hand since the election. By dismissing them completely I can't help but feel that he is only bolstering support for them. FG have now joined the attacks in the last day or two and Drew Harris' comments yesterday about the SF links to the IRA army council being still intact are very curious in their timing. Continuing to bang the old IRA drum will have less resonance with people now that the old brigade are almost phased out even if a few linger in the background but for anybody under the age of 40, it is not a pressing issue. People just want to give the old established order of FF & FG a bloody nose and by them attacking SF it is only helping to feed the narrative of the establishment against the people that SF want to create. If they really are hell bent on not going into government with SF then I'm not sure what else they can actually do to win public support and confidence but I'd guess that the longer they keep SF out in the cold the more that the public anger will build.

It is a pressing issue for me; I don't want a political party being controlled by terrorists or shadowy figures in the background anywhere near the running of this country. The Chief policeman in the country was correct and had a duty to call this one out. FG have been consistent all along in their insistence that they will not deal with SF, not just in the past few days.

a) The chief policeman in the free state is a former high ranking member of a disbanded and disgraced police force who were involved in colluding and carrying out sectarian murders and suppressing investigations as victims and their families sought justice
b) The chief policeman's views are not based on any sort of concrete evidence whatsoever, they are his subjective views on what others views actually are and given his background, this makes him very much compromised
c) The timing of these comments are very interesting and do not inspire confidence in the police force in the free state after all its recent controversies

Other senior gardai agree with him.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/what-evidence-is-there-that-the-ira-still-controls-sinn-f%C3%A9in-1.4182679