China Coronavirus

[trailer]

I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.

Dunno, I'd like to see countries insist that you have been vaccinated before allowing you in. Can definitely see this with places like Oz and NZ. Quite possibly the EU as well. Tourist countries will mostly insist on it. To facilitate that then you'll need some sort of passport to prove you're vaccinated. The French insisted on testing all the lorry drivers and it's now par for the course. Things that seemed unbelievable just a year ago are now common place.

The real function of vaccine passports should be in the internal economy, like Israel have now

No vaccine passport, no admission to gyms, pubs etc.

You would have done well in 1930's Germany.

This sort of nonsense doesn't help. This idea that a government who provides free of charge a vaccine that can save your life is somehow fascism. People have to meet all sorts of criteria to enter gyms, pubs and restaurants. No being intoxicated is one. You need to wear appropriate clothing. Is that all fascism? Is having to wear a seatbelt in a car fascism? Is having to get a vaccine to go to some African countries fascism?
Genuinely interested.

[dublin7]

I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.

Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?

Why not? I suppose everyone has the "right" to choose who they do business with, everyone has the right to oppose threat to their health (how they perceive it) But how do you police it?

I'm not anti vaccine passport, I'm just thinking out loud I suppose. I see this as very much like the airports - probably something that should be done, but unlikely to gain the necessary demand.

I think there will be a demand for this, certainly in countries that rely on foreign tourism to fund their economy. I don't see any difference in getting covid vaccines to getting vaccinated before travelling to Asia/Africa   

[trailer]

I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.

Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?

No

Why not? The business is providing the service and if they want to refuse entry to someone that is surely in their gift?

[dublin7]

I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.

Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?

No

Why not? The business is providing the service and if they want to refuse entry to someone that is surely in their gift?

The majority of pubs for example have signs up saying management have the right to refuse admission. What's to stop them including not having a covid passport/vaccine cert as a reason to refuse entry?

[GetOverTheBar]

I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.

Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?

Why not? I suppose everyone has the "right" to choose who they do business with, everyone has the right to oppose threat to their health (how they perceive it) But how do you police it?

I'm not anti vaccine passport, I'm just thinking out loud I suppose. I see this as very much like the airports - probably something that should be done, but unlikely to gain the necessary demand.

I think there will be a demand for this, certainly in countries that rely on foreign tourism to fund their economy. I don't see any difference in getting covid vaccines to getting vaccinated before travelling to Asia/Africa

That's a fair enough point - I was thinking more door to door business at home first and foremost really. I can see Australia and NZ definitely employing something along these lines, I don't think the quarantine thing will stick around (unless that remains as part of a counteraction to appease those who refuse the vaccine but doesn't impinge on their rights to travel).

I don't know about bars and the likes, someone pointed out the management can refuse entry, of course - but sure you'll get another bar won't bother their holes just down the road. Can Govt intervene here and make that a demand on business going forward? I'm not sure. It's an emotive topic for sure, there can only be legal action taken. I'm a key worker who hasn't got vaccinated, if the bars open tomorrow would I be fit to go to work in an office full but get turned away for a pint because I haven't got the jab?

To me it seems just easier to do at borders, rather than "in" the country. Track and trace in the West during this mess has shown you can't really get people to do much they don't want to do. If a tracer phones you up, you hang up. What's done about that?

I just think once everyone is vaccinated the demand and the fear I suppose will lead to a relaxation in people. I don't think we as a whole will be as tense and maniacal about this anymore in another month or two.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.

Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?

No

Why not? The business is providing the service and if they want to refuse entry to someone that is surely in their gift?

Because they aren't now are they?

[sid waddell]

Bottom line is: if we are serious about beating this pandemic and then keeping it beaten - which is the only way we will have "normal life" again - vaccine passports which will positively discriminate in favour of those who are vaccinated, and their use both as regards international travel and in the internal economy, are an absolute must

If this doesn't happen, we are simply not serious at all about beating the pandemic and returning to life like it was pre-March 2020

[trailer]

I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.

Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?

Why not? I suppose everyone has the "right" to choose who they do business with, everyone has the right to oppose threat to their health (how they perceive it) But how do you police it?

I'm not anti vaccine passport, I'm just thinking out loud I suppose. I see this as very much like the airports - probably something that should be done, but unlikely to gain the necessary demand.

I think there will be a demand for this, certainly in countries that rely on foreign tourism to fund their economy. I don't see any difference in getting covid vaccines to getting vaccinated before travelling to Asia/Africa

That's a fair enough point - I was thinking more door to door business at home first and foremost really. I can see Australia and NZ definitely employing something along these lines, I don't think the quarantine thing will stick around (unless that remains as part of a counteraction to appease those who refuse the vaccine but doesn't impinge on their rights to travel).

I don't know about bars and the likes, someone pointed out the management can refuse entry, of course - but sure you'll get another bar won't bother their holes just down the road. Can Govt intervene here and make that a demand on business going forward? I'm not sure. It's an emotive topic for sure, there can only be legal action taken. I'm a key worker who hasn't got vaccinated, if the bars open tomorrow would I be fit to go to work in an office full but get turned away for a pint because I haven't got the jab?

To me it seems just easier to do at borders, rather than "in" the country. Track and trace in the West during this mess has shown you can't really get people to do much they don't want to do. If a tracer phones you up, you hang up. What's done about that?

I just think once everyone is vaccinated the demand and the fear I suppose will lead to a relaxation in people. I don't think we as a whole will be as tense and maniacal about this anymore in another month or two.

Agree it's easier at the border. Be interesting to see the view that hospitality takes on it. Would they risk a group leaving because one was refused entry? Given the year they have had? I'd imagine it would need legislation for hospitality to enforce and at this point I can't see the Tories doing that. But at the borders I think it will become common place. No jab = 14 days quarantine at your own expense.

[trailer]

I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.

Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?

No

Why not? The business is providing the service and if they want to refuse entry to someone that is surely in their gift?

Because they aren't now are they?

Well they aren't open either. 
In theory they could but I can't really see them sticking to it. It would require legislation and I don't see the Tories or the DUP going for that either. But like I said travel will be the key area.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Jesus William Crawley is turning into Nolan, his opinion is overriding every guest recently-

[Angelo]

A lot of ignorant people here backing a totalitarian society.

Wonder would they feel the same when it's something concerns them.

Let's make pariahs out of smokers so with all the damage they do to society.

[Redhand Santa]

A lot of ignorant people here backing a totalitarian society.

Wonder would they feel the same when it's something concerns them.

Let's make pariahs out of smokers so with all the damage they do to society.

That's a good point - imagine banning smokers from smoking inside in public buildings because they can damage other peoples health. Oh wait....

[lenny]

I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.

Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?

No

But you're cherry picking US right-wing libertarian logic there

You're advocating denial of freedom to businesses to keep their customers safe

Why should I be forced to sit next to an unvaccinated person on a plane

Where's my freedom there

You don't get on a plane without a passport

You don't get admittance to certain nightclubs based on arbitrary grounds like what you're wearing

If I wore a Celtic jersey, I'm not getting into Lillie's or whatever the exclusive nightclubs were in Dublin pre-March 2020

Society makes these sort of decisions all the time

The EU are in the process of developing vaccine passports which would be a condition of entry into an EU country. I would welcome this as it vastly reduces the risk of virus mutations getting into the EU. The uk need to follow this. After they've it approved we can all travel freely in the EU provided we have our vaccine passport. Everyone considerate enough to think of others and careful enough with their own health has the freedom to easily travel. Hopefully this will happen and we can get back to some normality.

[dublin7]

A lot of ignorant people here backing a totalitarian society.

Wonder would they feel the same when it's something concerns them.

Let's make pariahs out of smokers so with all the damage they do to society.

That's a good point - imagine banning smokers from smoking inside in public buildings because they can damage other peoples health. Oh wait....

Smoking is banned in the workplace as well. It does seem as though people have decided if you want risk your own health smoking, that's fine, but we won't allow you to risk anyone else's health

[GetOverTheBar]

Stormont have agreed the roadmap.

1545 apparently....tune in for the most vague and complete bland wishy washy nonsense you can muster.