Gaelic Football - Rules & Regulations discussion/clarification

[dublin7]

So if he's dragged down and there is a player in a position that could also tackle him and prevent a goal will it be a penalty or not?

If there's another defender who was going to tackle him then it's not a clear goal scoring opportunity.

Soccer have the red card for denying a clear goal scoring opportunity. Rugby has the penalty try and yellow card for fouling a player to stop him scoring a try 

The new rule should cut down on cynical fouling so I'm in favour of it

In theory yes - but my major fear here is that it's completely up to the interpretation of the referee as to whether or not it's a clear goal scoring opportunity or not.
The list of black card offences according to the rule book is not ambiguous yet look at how that is interpreted so wildly differently by referees.
Lads are getting blacks for offences that should not be deemed as such according to the rule book so I fear this is a can of worms.

The other sports get it right the majority of the time. By definition a clear goal scoring opportunity should be easy to get right for the officals

Other sports as in Professional sports?

So because the referee isn't professional he doesn't understand what a clear and obvious goal scoring opportunity is?

The ref has two linesman and two umpires behind each goal. If between all them they can't tell if someone has a clear goal scoring opportunity when fouled then why have any rules/officials at all?

[Milltown Row2]

These are amateurs just like the players, players make more mistakes during a match than the referee.

The judgement calls are analysed as if they did this as their job,  the introduction of the Mark rules forward and defence marks, black cards, sin bins, now we have penalty calls outside the box.

I'm not talking about Championship football at Croke, I'm talking about some country pitch during a dive 4 league game, this is the reality, not the great lined out pitches with refs mic'd up to linesmen and fourth officials and umpires.

[dublin7]

Referres are being asked to judge what is a clear goal scoring opportunity not solve world hunger.

If you don't believe officals are capable of judging this then what else are they incapable of dealing with? Should we get rid of red/yellow cards in case a ref makes a mistake? Probably can't give penalties then either in case they get that wrong too.

[Milltown Row2]

Referres are being asked to judge what is a clear goal scoring opportunity not solve world hunger.

If you don't believe officals are capable of judging this then what else are they incapable of dealing with? Should we get rid of red/yellow cards in case a ref makes a mistake? Probably can't give penalties then either in case they get that wrong too.

Well when you put it like that, it's strange why there's so many discussions about referees

[dublin7]

Referres are being asked to judge what is a clear goal scoring opportunity not solve world hunger.

If you don't believe officals are capable of judging this then what else are they incapable of dealing with? Should we get rid of red/yellow cards in case a ref makes a mistake? Probably can't give penalties then either in case they get that wrong too.

Well when you put it like that, it's strange why there's so many discussions about referees

Refs/umpires/officals get discussed in every sport. Why do you think the GAA should be different? The players are amateurs but they get analysed like professional athletes.

Do you really think referees are incapable of judging what is or isn't a clear goal scoring opportunity?

[Milltown Row2]

Referres are being asked to judge what is a clear goal scoring opportunity not solve world hunger.

If you don't believe officals are capable of judging this then what else are they incapable of dealing with? Should we get rid of red/yellow cards in case a ref makes a mistake? Probably can't give penalties then either in case they get that wrong too.

Well when you put it like that, it's strange why there's so many discussions about referees

Refs/umpires/officals get discussed in every sport. Why do you think the GAA should be different? The players are amateurs but they get analysed like professional athletes.

Do you really think referees are incapable of judging what is or isn't a clear goal scoring opportunity?

Again like I said already we question the calls on black cards yellow cards and red cards!

The games that I'm concerned with are 99% of our games, the grass roots, if you are only into intercounty that's fine, most calls will have the benefit of 8 officials!

In the sticks he won't, cynical play will happen further out the field and as someone has mentioned sweepers will play deeper, the game will become more defensive

[dublin7]

Strange how referees at all amateur levels in football/rugby are willing to implement red cards/penalties for professional fouls but GAA refs won't do it for some reason.

Why do you think that is?

[Milltown Row2]

Strange how referees at all amateur levels in football/rugby are willing to implement red cards/penalties for professional fouls but GAA refs won't do it for some reason.

Why do you think that is?

Personally I hate the paperwork and they usually get off with it once it goes to cccc.. 

[Baile Brigín 2]

These are amateurs just like the players, players make more mistakes during a match than the referee.

The judgement calls are analysed as if they did this as their job,  the introduction of the Mark rules forward and defence marks, black cards, sin bins, now we have penalty calls outside the box.

I'm not talking about Championship football at Croke, I'm talking about some country pitch during a dive 4 league game, this is the reality, not the great lined out pitches with refs mic'd up to linesmen and fourth officials and umpires.

Rugby and soccer referees don't do it for a living either. The Premiership is unique in having full time referees

[Milltown Row2]

These are amateurs just like the players, players make more mistakes during a match than the referee.

The judgement calls are analysed as if they did this as their job,  the introduction of the Mark rules forward and defence marks, black cards, sin bins, now we have penalty calls outside the box.

I'm not talking about Championship football at Croke, I'm talking about some country pitch during a dive 4 league game, this is the reality, not the great lined out pitches with refs mic'd up to linesmen and fourth officials and umpires.

Rugby and soccer referees don't do it for a living either. The Premiership is unique in having full time referees

And they still get it wrong even with VAR on board!

Well I'll look forward to the non discussion of the rules applied by the ref during the season, his interpretation of the rules will be fine, as its an easy call.

The referee's I've spoke to have said this will be a cluster f**k, no one of them have said brilliant this will make the game easier to manage. Like I said earlier, take this to a pitch with no lines, certainly a semi circle missing, and sidelines shouting for penalties..

County grounds during championship will have 8 officials helping out, 99% of the other matches played, won't. 

[dublin7]

These are amateurs just like the players, players make more mistakes during a match than the referee.

The judgement calls are analysed as if they did this as their job,  the introduction of the Mark rules forward and defence marks, black cards, sin bins, now we have penalty calls outside the box.

I'm not talking about Championship football at Croke, I'm talking about some country pitch during a dive 4 league game, this is the reality, not the great lined out pitches with refs mic'd up to linesmen and fourth officials and umpires.

Rugby and soccer referees don't do it for a living either. The Premiership is unique in having full time referees

And they still get it wrong even with VAR on board!

Well I'll look forward to the non discussion of the rules applied by the ref during the season, his interpretation of the rules will be fine, as its an easy call.

The referee's I've spoke to have said this will be a cluster f**k, no one of them have said brilliant this will make the game easier to manage. Like I said earlier, take this to a pitch with no lines, certainly a semi circle missing, and sidelines shouting for penalties..

County grounds during championship will have 8 officials helping out, 99% of the other matches played, won't.

Who plays on pitches without lines. Referees at all levels in football/rugby down to bottom of the barrel sunday league level are trusted to get make these decisions. They're playing on bang average pitches as well and they also have to deal with players/sidelines shouting for penalties, red cards as well.

The reason the rules are being brought in is to try to take cynical fouling out of the game and improve the game, not as a test for referees 

[Milltown Row2]

These are amateurs just like the players, players make more mistakes during a match than the referee.

The judgement calls are analysed as if they did this as their job,  the introduction of the Mark rules forward and defence marks, black cards, sin bins, now we have penalty calls outside the box.

I'm not talking about Championship football at Croke, I'm talking about some country pitch during a dive 4 league game, this is the reality, not the great lined out pitches with refs mic'd up to linesmen and fourth officials and umpires.

Rugby and soccer referees don't do it for a living either. The Premiership is unique in having full time referees

And they still get it wrong even with VAR on board!

Well I'll look forward to the non discussion of the rules applied by the ref during the season, his interpretation of the rules will be fine, as its an easy call.

The referee's I've spoke to have said this will be a cluster f**k, no one of them have said brilliant this will make the game easier to manage. Like I said earlier, take this to a pitch with no lines, certainly a semi circle missing, and sidelines shouting for penalties..

County grounds during championship will have 8 officials helping out, 99% of the other matches played, won't.

Who plays on pitches without lines. Referees at all levels in football/rugby down to bottom of the barrel sunday league level are trusted to get make these decisions. They're playing on bang average pitches as well and they also have to deal with players/sidelines shouting for penalties, red cards as well.

The reason the rules are being brought in is to try to take cynical fouling out of the game and improve the game, not as a test for referees

I'm not saying the rules for cynical fouling is wrong, they have rules in place for it, for the past few seasons, its called a black card, sin bin.

This rule  is saying that the penalty area is now extended to the sidelines  of the 21 into the corner flag and in the D of the pitch, should the referee feel that that its a goal scoring opportunity, my problem is. and I'll have to administrate this in in every game, was that a goal scoring opportunity? I'm happy and in my knowledge I'll know, but I can see this turning into a farce.  Just my opinion

And yes, I've refereed hundreds of games at all levels and there are pitches that I go to every year around the county and indeed other counties and markings on the pitch are abysmal.

[themac_23]

These are amateurs just like the players, players make more mistakes during a match than the referee.

The judgement calls are analysed as if they did this as their job,  the introduction of the Mark rules forward and defence marks, black cards, sin bins, now we have penalty calls outside the box.

I'm not talking about Championship football at Croke, I'm talking about some country pitch during a dive 4 league game, this is the reality, not the great lined out pitches with refs mic'd up to linesmen and fourth officials and umpires.

Rugby and soccer referees don't do it for a living either. The Premiership is unique in having full time referees

And they still get it wrong even with VAR on board!

Well I'll look forward to the non discussion of the rules applied by the ref during the season, his interpretation of the rules will be fine, as its an easy call.

The referee's I've spoke to have said this will be a cluster f**k, no one of them have said brilliant this will make the game easier to manage. Like I said earlier, take this to a pitch with no lines, certainly a semi circle missing, and sidelines shouting for penalties..

County grounds during championship will have 8 officials helping out, 99% of the other matches played, won't.

Who plays on pitches without lines. Referees at all levels in football/rugby down to bottom of the barrel sunday league level are trusted to get make these decisions. They're playing on bang average pitches as well and they also have to deal with players/sidelines shouting for penalties, red cards as well.

The reason the rules are being brought in is to try to take cynical fouling out of the game and improve the game, not as a test for referees

I'm not saying the rules for cynical fouling is wrong, they have rules in place for it, for the past few seasons, its called a black card, sin bin.

This rule  is saying that the penalty area is now extended to the sidelines  of the 21 into the corner flag and in the D of the pitch, should the referee feel that that its a goal scoring opportunity, my problem is. and I'll have to administrate this in in every game, was that a goal scoring opportunity? I'm happy and in my knowledge I'll know, but I can see this turning into a farce.  Just my opinion

And yes, I've refereed hundreds of games at all levels and there are pitches that I go to every year around the county and indeed other counties and markings on the pitch are abysmal.

Making the referees job impossible, refs are now asked to implement the same standard/ rules in club games that are being done in top inter county games, the suits need to realise that GAA is played outside the big stadiums. Also on the pitches without lines etc, nothing compares to Mitchell's old pitch up at poleglass, never mind lines ya were lucky to see posts!

[Milltown Row2]

Aye, listen I did a Ulster league game in County Down last year, just before we lockdown, there wasn't a line on the pitch. this was a div 1 game!

These are getting less in fairness, but it does happen and 99% of our games are played by clubs, not interecounty

[sid waddell]

There's a problem with the definition of cynical foul in general, it's totally arbitrary

Like, a trip is classed as cynical but a pull back isn't

Philly McMahon did a pull back on Cillian O'Connor after about 60 minutes of the 2017 All-Ireland which was as cynical as they come - the ref allowed the advantage, O'Connor did end up getting a point from play, but had he not been pulled back he probably would have stuck the ball in the net

Fouls high up the pitch are deeply cynical, they prevent the opposition from moving the ball quickly from one end of the pitch to the other

Manchester City are experts at this in association football, Dublin did it in 2013 and 2017 against Mayo, Tyrone were expert at it, Kerry too

This new rule about a penalty for a "cynical" foul is in because of that trip by Eoghan McLaughlin on Sean Kelly at the end of the Connacht final

But what exactly is a goalscoring opportunity, what is it in football, what is it in hurling?

In the Kelly/McLaughlin one, there was a covering defender, if you didn't need a goal you'd probably fist a point, at two points down three minutes into injury time you'd go for goal - if you can get a shot in, and Kelly might not have done

If Kevin McManamon had been hacked down 40 yards out against Kerry in 2013, would that not have been a goalscoring opportunity?