Maddie McCann

[Rufus T Firefly]

Rufus we do have some evidence, it may be circumstantial and it most certainly isn't all of the evidence but you can say we shouldn't make judgements with what we got until you're blue in the face, fact is, people will, it's human nature.  I bet you have your own views on what happened, you can't just say, "I haven't all the evidence, I can't make a judgement, and shut your mind.

I genuinely don't know one way or the other - the more I hear, the more I feel bewildered. I feel enormous sympathy for the parents - I have a child of similar age, so the thought of what they are going through - nightmare stuff!

[SuperSub]

A cursory glance on this thread will see consistent references to their social class or status. This appears to be raised by those who are most conviced of their guilt. There are absolutely no facts in the public domain to indicate their guilt, and given their travel today with the authorities' blessing, I would suggest there is none within the investigation itself.

The references to their class are made by those angry at the attention they are getting when we all know if it was a single mother from housing estate she would be slaughtered by the media.  Can you argue different?

Now why do people here think they are guilty, without these facts?

Well rufus from day one the case stunk.
The were inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the parent's stories about when they checked on the children and stories told about how they could see the apartment from where they ate when any map or picture shows different.  They also lied about the amount of drink they had.  Of course this may be down to guilt for leaving their children but this is something they've barely expressed and continue to insist they're good parents!
The mother reportedly went to check on the children at 10pm and realising Maddie had gone returned to the restaurant LEAVING THE TWINS ALONE AGAIN! Saying "they've taken her they've taken her".  They were very keen to insist that the child had been abducted and refused to entertain the notion that she had wandered off.  Wtf?  Would she not entertain the notion that maddie way have wandered off and look for her before running back to the restaurant.  Can anyone tell me when police or anyone else was first contacted? 
They claimed and their family claimed that the shutters had been forced open when staff at the resort say they hadn't.  The police found that the shutter had not been forced form the outside but opened from the inside! Are we expected to believe the intruder opened the shutters from the inside?  No evidence of an intruder was found. 
The twin boys slept through everything, their mothers reaction and the 20 or so people the mccanns took back to the apartment – they were carried out, asleep, by police when they arrived. Amazing!
It was one of their own friends who reported a man taking a child from the apartment, days or even weeks? After the disappearance.  She must have forgot!  That's understandable as they've just recently remembered a friend went to check on the children at half 9. 
Then we've the parent's reaction to the whole thing.  Now apparently they have been told to show no emotion, I don't know why it would matter and, although I'm not a father, I know if it was a niece or nephew missing and some pervert doing God knows what I would not be fit to hold myself together whether police told me to or not. As a father I'm sure you'd be the same.  The McCanns on the other hand deserve Oscars!  But it's not just the lack of emotion, it's the touring around the world, the raising money, have you read Gerry McCann's blog, hardly a mention of Maddie!

None of us have all the evidence but people can and will make judgements. 

If ever there was an example of the power of the media to brainwash people, this is it. POG has regurgitated random stories reproduced in the Sun/Mirror/Star by journalists with little or no facts. 'Dish Monkeys' they call this type of analyst - someone who deals in the 'it was reported' information, without having the barest fact.

Absolute bullshit, without any weight whatsoever.

I think your talking bullshit O'Neill..POG hasn't just pulled random stories from rag mags and try to pawn it off as real evidence...What he has posted is quite true
It obvious you don't think the McCanns are guilty but you shouldn't just dismiss someone else's opinion and facts that are there for all to see..
You could just as easily post all the facts in favour of the McCanns but you also would  be just repeating what you read or saw on TV

[pintsofguinness]

Oh don't worry about O'Neill, he's not to be taken seriously.

[ONeill]

No, actually I don't. I deal with what I hear said. POG stated:

The were inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the parent's stories about when they checked on the children and stories told about how they could see the apartment from where they ate when any map or picture shows different.  They also lied about the amount of drink they had.

OK, let's start here. Where can you, or anyone, find this? (i.e. where you saw the McCann say this?)

[Tyrone lady]

with all what facts against them Laois lad, remind us of these facts here please? And you may find reading every single one of pint of gs post that he is judge and jury, he has them convicted already, due to all these facts the media have told him.

[Rufus T Firefly]

I have to say, I find the whole thing a total mystery, which is why I would not be anxious to judge. That said, I find it very unsettling that many here are happy to act as judge and jury, particularly as this judgement is on the basis of the McCanns' social class, and not on any concrete facts.

(Just because you're upper class and posh  )

I have to say, I find the whole thing a total mystery, which is why I would not be anxious to judge. That said, I find it very unsettling that many here are happy to act as judge and jury, particularly as this judgement is on the basis of the McCanns' social class, and not on any concrete facts.

Seriously, what do you mean by that, who is judging them on their class?

A cursory glance on this thread will see consistent references to their social class or status. This appears to be raised by those who are most conviced of their guilt. There are absolutely no facts in the public domain to indicate their guilt, and given their travel today with the authorities' blessing, I would suggest there is none within the investigation itself.

Now why do people here think they are guilty, without these facts? 

And how can someone say they are not guilty with all the facts that is against them..
I for one said there was something suspicious right from the start and for all the arguments that are in favour of the parents there is just as many that can be used against them.
But i don't think anyone here has already convicted the parents and said yes it was defiantly them,Peoples opinions are changing every day and will continue to do so until this is finally resolved
Yes there is a lot of posters who think they are guilty but i can't remember anyone saying that they 100% believe this to be true because no one could know that as yet.
I think there is alot more twists in this yet,but from my research and from everything i have read and saw on TV i have come to the opinion they are involved someway,But its only a opinion and everyone is going to have different views and opinions on this

Sorry Laoislad - you lost me totally there - what I would ask though is for you to list the 'facts' that are against the McCanns here - and by facts against the McCanns, I mean evidence that they have malevolently had something to do with the child's disappearance/death.

[ONeill]

And when you're finished, take the next sentence:

The mother reportedly went to check on the children at 10pm and realising Maddie had gone returned to the restaurant LEAVING THE TWINS ALONE AGAIN! Saying "they've taken her they've taken her".

Find this? POG says she said this, 'reportedly'!

This just sums up how the British way of swallowing what the media pass off as stories has spread to this island.

You only have to think about another of POG's statements to see how he deals in falsities - The twin boys slept through everything
!!!!!!!!!!!

[pintsofguinness]

with all what facts against them Laois lad, remind us of these facts here please? And you may find reading every single one of pint of gs post that he is judge and jury, he has them convicted already, due to all these facts the media have told him.

Actually I don't have them convicted.  I do suspect them but I will still be shocked if it turns out to be them.

[ONeill]

I do suspect them but I will still be shocked if it turns out to be them.

Jaysus - it's gets worse.

[The Real Laoislad]

with all what facts against them Laois lad, remind us of these facts here please? And you may find reading every single one of pint of gs post that he is judge and jury, he has them convicted already, due to all these facts the media have told him.

Sure the blood in the car got there all by itself....

[Tyrone lady]

This is apparently all being further tested to determine the exact nature of what was found. So ur saying that they can be found guilty with all these facts then when asked to present them thats what you come up with??? Strange how you can find them guilty with all these facts but the portguese police havnt nor the public prosecutor for the country. I take it ur well in with the whole investigation to get all these facts, maybe u would share them with us sometime.

[muppet]

Circumstantial evidence convicted Rachel O'Reilly's husband. His mobile phone was used to contradict his alibi.

I don't know whether circumstantial evidence can be used as a basis for a case in Portugal but either way they would not want to be proved as having lied about that night.

[ONeill]

Circumstantial evidence convicted Rachel O'Reilly's husband. His mobile phone was used to contradict his alibi.

I don't know whether circumstantial evidence can be used as a basis for a case in Portugal but either way they would not want to be proved as having lied about that night.

That's the big one, Muppet. There is a strong possibility, in order to dampen the outrage at their perceived neglect, that they underplayed times/routine etc out of sheer pride and arrogance when first questioned. A lot of us do that. When the actual truth is discovered, be it a matter of 30 -40 mins, the police will start the alarm bells.

A sweeping statement, but two things about doctors, esp English doctors (having had experience - as you have I think - from living over there). Firstly, they can be incredibly arrogant. Secondly, they can be extremely cold in nature and demeanour (something that seems to be a side effect from their career). Both of these characteristics do not endear them to the police and public.

[SuperSub]

This is apparently all being further tested to determine the exact nature of what was found. So ur saying that they can be found guilty with all these facts then when asked to present them thats what you come up with??? Strange how you can find them guilty with all these facts but the portguese police havnt nor the public prosecutor for the country. I take it ur well in with the whole investigation to get all these facts, maybe u would share them with us sometime.

And what are your reasons for thinking they are innocent.....That you can't believe anyone could do that to a child...Wow that will really stand up in a court
Everyone is entitled to a opinion and there is enough there to say they are guilty..But then again you believe the Portugese Police are trying to put a end to this case and are making all this up...

[SuperSub]

Circumstantial evidence convicted Rachel O'Reilly's husband. His mobile phone was used to contradict his alibi.

I don't know whether circumstantial evidence can be used as a basis for a case in Portugal but either way they would not want to be proved as having lied about that night.

That's the big one, Muppet. There is a strong possibility, in order to dampen the outrage at their perceived neglect, that they underplayed times/routine etc out of sheer pride and arrogance when first questioned. A lot of us do that. When the actual truth is discovered, be it a matter of 30 -40 mins, the police will start the alarm bells.

A sweeping statement, but two things about doctors, esp English doctors (having had experience - as you have I think - from living over there). Firstly, they can be incredibly arrogant. Secondly, they can be extremely cold in nature and demeanour (something that seems to be a side effect from their career). Both of these characteristics do not endear them to the police and public.

You would think the loss of a child would bring emotion from even the coldest of hearts??