NI job losses

[johnneycool]

My experience of unions in these types of places is similar to MR2's, the workshy tend to levitate towards roles within the unions and then do all in their powers to bring everyone down to their level of productivity.

That's not to say unions are not needed, they just need to change the mentality a bit and allow some form on incentivised structure to allow the better, more productive to be rewarded AND ensure that employers do not ride roughshod over workers which also is beginning to become all too common with zero hour contracts and what not being abused willy nilly.

When the Unions in Bombardier rejected the cost cutting measures these redundancies were always on the cards, it was always going to be when and how deep.

I'm presuming all contractors are already off site, so the 90 day consultation will begin. I've been involved in a few and its not nice at all.

[Franko]

Well the union rejected cost cutting measures to help reduce the expected redundancies.....

I'm very much ambivalent about Unions these days, as a public sector worker you cant help but notice that the most useless workshy hoorbags gravitate towards the local posts. I wouldn't know much about In this particular situation but the above seems a regularly trotted out line. Sometimes they dont realise until it's too late that they are in a game of brinkmanship that they were never gonna win. The Union movement is going down the toilet imo, it rarely knows what battles to be fighting.

Unions are only looking after themselves.... Its big business with proceeds of wages going towards them...

Very simple, work harder and you'll keep your jobs.... Somebody is going it more efficiently somewhere else, why not here? Worked there fir 3 years, plenty areas that could be improved to help the place.... People are strange

What an idiotic thing to say.

From my time working there.... You work there??

No, but quite a few friends and old uni mates did/do.  However, it's utterly irrelevant.  You just said that the reason that 1000 people are looking at the dole queue this evening is because they are lazy.  No mention of the company bleeding cash due to cost over-runs on an ambitious project to try to compete with big boys, nothing about availability of cheaper labour in other economies, nothing about moronic union leaders advising workers to make wrong choices.  No, you see them 1000 over there, they didn't work hard enough.  Maybe you'd like to go and sit outside Bombardier's gate tomorrow morning and tell your ex-colleagues that in person.

Read my first post you clampit... I blame the unions on this, they advised the employees to not vote in favour of the cuts to help save jobs, they also did same thing in the shipyard and in most other union based sectors...

If they and that includes a lot of people that I seen from working there personally for 3 years worked mire efficiently then we wouldn't have what we have.... I had a sector of a fuselage to complete, certain man hours to get it done and wait on the next section before starting over again.... Two days you wait sometimes before getting your next kit to start working again... That's 16 hours per man with 8000 workers ?? Now that might not have been the norm all over, but I seen and did that a lot....

As for taking on projects like the carbon fibre wings its essential that they do that to improve the quality of the planes... Massive hit taken on that and a huge amount of money lost on developing that concept.... My next door neighbour is a designer in the place..lsd lives up the street is a fitter I know plenty of friends that work there, all disappointed with how things have been dealt with..... Countries will always have better working tax breaks than us....

I said to them at the time, take the hit now (it wasn't huge) and when the composites start to make money then bombardier will be at the forefront of that technology....

Haha, that's some bit of reversing!  You've went from stating explicitly that the people would still have their jobs if they worked harder, to blaming unions, poor management and the hit from the development of the C series.  Come to think of it, that's exactly what I said.  Much more reasoned stuff.  Your initial post was still idiotic though.

Nope, to certain extent we have a mentality in n.i when working for these companies and the likes of the civil service to expect more from the employers a do less.... Not accepting the cuts was both union and employees problems... Being asked to work to 2 O'clock instead of finishing at 11.45 on a Friday was just one of the things they didn't want to do.... Now you tell me that's not lazy??

So now it IS the employees fault.  Some flip-flopping going on here.

[fearsiuil]

I presume none of you hard working heroes are posting here on the job?

[Milltown Row2]

Well the union rejected cost cutting measures to help reduce the expected redundancies.....

I'm very much ambivalent about Unions these days, as a public sector worker you cant help but notice that the most useless workshy hoorbags gravitate towards the local posts. I wouldn't know much about In this particular situation but the above seems a regularly trotted out line. Sometimes they dont realise until it's too late that they are in a game of brinkmanship that they were never gonna win. The Union movement is going down the toilet imo, it rarely knows what battles to be fighting.

Unions are only looking after themselves.... Its big business with proceeds of wages going towards them...

Very simple, work harder and you'll keep your jobs.... Somebody is going it more efficiently somewhere else, why not here? Worked there fir 3 years, plenty areas that could be improved to help the place.... People are strange

What an idiotic thing to say.

From my time working there.... You work there??

No, but quite a few friends and old uni mates did/do.  However, it's utterly irrelevant.  You just said that the reason that 1000 people are looking at the dole queue this evening is because they are lazy.  No mention of the company bleeding cash due to cost over-runs on an ambitious project to try to compete with big boys, nothing about availability of cheaper labour in other economies, nothing about moronic union leaders advising workers to make wrong choices.  No, you see them 1000 over there, they didn't work hard enough.  Maybe you'd like to go and sit outside Bombardier's gate tomorrow morning and tell your ex-colleagues that in person.

Read my first post you clampit... I blame the unions on this, they advised the employees to not vote in favour of the cuts to help save jobs, they also did same thing in the shipyard and in most other union based sectors...

If they and that includes a lot of people that I seen from working there personally for 3 years worked mire efficiently then we wouldn't have what we have.... I had a sector of a fuselage to complete, certain man hours to get it done and wait on the next section before starting over again.... Two days you wait sometimes before getting your next kit to start working again... That's 16 hours per man with 8000 workers ?? Now that might not have been the norm all over, but I seen and did that a lot....

As for taking on projects like the carbon fibre wings its essential that they do that to improve the quality of the planes... Massive hit taken on that and a huge amount of money lost on developing that concept.... My next door neighbour is a designer in the place..lsd lives up the street is a fitter I know plenty of friends that work there, all disappointed with how things have been dealt with..... Countries will always have better working tax breaks than us....

I said to them at the time, take the hit now (it wasn't huge) and when the composites start to make money then bombardier will be at the forefront of that technology....

Haha, that's some bit of reversing!  You've went from stating explicitly that the people would still have their jobs if they worked harder, to blaming unions, poor management and the hit from the development of the C series.  Come to think of it, that's exactly what I said.  Much more reasoned stuff.  Your initial post was still idiotic though.

Nope, to certain extent we have a mentality in n.i when working for these companies and the likes of the civil service to expect more from the employers a do less.... Not accepting the cuts was both union and employees problems... Being asked to work to 2 O'clock instead of finishing at 11.45 on a Friday was just one of the things they didn't want to do.... Now you tell me that's not lazy??

So now it IS the employees fault.  Some flip-flopping going on here.

So you'd not accept a deal to save your job??

[Saffrongael]

Well the union rejected cost cutting measures to help reduce the expected redundancies.....

I'm very much ambivalent about Unions these days, as a public sector worker you cant help but notice that the most useless workshy hoorbags gravitate towards the local posts. I wouldn't know much about In this particular situation but the above seems a regularly trotted out line. Sometimes they dont realise until it's too late that they are in a game of brinkmanship that they were never gonna win. The Union movement is going down the toilet imo, it rarely knows what battles to be fighting.

Unions are only looking after themselves.... Its big business with proceeds of wages going towards them...

Very simple, work harder and you'll keep your jobs.... Somebody is going it more efficiently somewhere else, why not here? Worked there fir 3 years, plenty areas that could be improved to help the place.... People are strange

What an idiotic thing to say.

From my time working there.... You work there??

No, but quite a few friends and old uni mates did/do.  However, it's utterly irrelevant.  You just said that the reason that 1000 people are looking at the dole queue this evening is because they are lazy.  No mention of the company bleeding cash due to cost over-runs on an ambitious project to try to compete with big boys, nothing about availability of cheaper labour in other economies, nothing about moronic union leaders advising workers to make wrong choices.  No, you see them 1000 over there, they didn't work hard enough.  Maybe you'd like to go and sit outside Bombardier's gate tomorrow morning and tell your ex-colleagues that in person.

Read my first post you clampit... I blame the unions on this, they advised the employees to not vote in favour of the cuts to help save jobs, they also did same thing in the shipyard and in most other union based sectors...

If they and that includes a lot of people that I seen from working there personally for 3 years worked mire efficiently then we wouldn't have what we have.... I had a sector of a fuselage to complete, certain man hours to get it done and wait on the next section before starting over again.... Two days you wait sometimes before getting your next kit to start working again... That's 16 hours per man with 8000 workers ?? Now that might not have been the norm all over, but I seen and did that a lot....

As for taking on projects like the carbon fibre wings its essential that they do that to improve the quality of the planes... Massive hit taken on that and a huge amount of money lost on developing that concept.... My next door neighbour is a designer in the place..lsd lives up the street is a fitter I know plenty of friends that work there, all disappointed with how things have been dealt with..... Countries will always have better working tax breaks than us....

I said to them at the time, take the hit now (it wasn't huge) and when the composites start to make money then bombardier will be at the forefront of that technology....

Haha, that's some bit of reversing!  You've went from stating explicitly that the people would still have their jobs if they worked harder, to blaming unions, poor management and the hit from the development of the C series.  Come to think of it, that's exactly what I said.  Much more reasoned stuff.  Your initial post was still idiotic though.

Nope, to certain extent we have a mentality in n.i when working for these companies and the likes of the civil service to expect more from the employers a do less.... Not accepting the cuts was both union and employees problems... Being asked to work to 2 O'clock instead of finishing at 11.45 on a Friday was just one of the things they didn't want to do.... Now you tell me that's not lazy??

So now it IS the employees fault.  Some flip-flopping going on here.

So you'd not accept a deal to save your job??

They were being made redundant regardless of accepting the pay deal

[Milltown Row2]

Well the union rejected cost cutting measures to help reduce the expected redundancies.....

I'm very much ambivalent about Unions these days, as a public sector worker you cant help but notice that the most useless workshy hoorbags gravitate towards the local posts. I wouldn't know much about In this particular situation but the above seems a regularly trotted out line. Sometimes they dont realise until it's too late that they are in a game of brinkmanship that they were never gonna win. The Union movement is going down the toilet imo, it rarely knows what battles to be fighting.

Unions are only looking after themselves.... Its big business with proceeds of wages going towards them...

Very simple, work harder and you'll keep your jobs.... Somebody is going it more efficiently somewhere else, why not here? Worked there fir 3 years, plenty areas that could be improved to help the place.... People are strange

What an idiotic thing to say.

From my time working there.... You work there??

No, but quite a few friends and old uni mates did/do.  However, it's utterly irrelevant.  You just said that the reason that 1000 people are looking at the dole queue this evening is because they are lazy.  No mention of the company bleeding cash due to cost over-runs on an ambitious project to try to compete with big boys, nothing about availability of cheaper labour in other economies, nothing about moronic union leaders advising workers to make wrong choices.  No, you see them 1000 over there, they didn't work hard enough.  Maybe you'd like to go and sit outside Bombardier's gate tomorrow morning and tell your ex-colleagues that in person.

Read my first post you clampit... I blame the unions on this, they advised the employees to not vote in favour of the cuts to help save jobs, they also did same thing in the shipyard and in most other union based sectors...

If they and that includes a lot of people that I seen from working there personally for 3 years worked mire efficiently then we wouldn't have what we have.... I had a sector of a fuselage to complete, certain man hours to get it done and wait on the next section before starting over again.... Two days you wait sometimes before getting your next kit to start working again... That's 16 hours per man with 8000 workers ?? Now that might not have been the norm all over, but I seen and did that a lot....

As for taking on projects like the carbon fibre wings its essential that they do that to improve the quality of the planes... Massive hit taken on that and a huge amount of money lost on developing that concept.... My next door neighbour is a designer in the place..lsd lives up the street is a fitter I know plenty of friends that work there, all disappointed with how things have been dealt with..... Countries will always have better working tax breaks than us....

I said to them at the time, take the hit now (it wasn't huge) and when the composites start to make money then bombardier will be at the forefront of that technology....

Haha, that's some bit of reversing!  You've went from stating explicitly that the people would still have their jobs if they worked harder, to blaming unions, poor management and the hit from the development of the C series.  Come to think of it, that's exactly what I said.  Much more reasoned stuff.  Your initial post was still idiotic though.

Nope, to certain extent we have a mentality in n.i when working for these companies and the likes of the civil service to expect more from the employers a do less.... Not accepting the cuts was both union and employees problems... Being asked to work to 2 O'clock instead of finishing at 11.45 on a Friday was just one of the things they didn't want to do.... Now you tell me that's not lazy??

So now it IS the employees fault.  Some flip-flopping going on here.

So you'd not accept a deal to save your job??

They were being made redundant regardless of accepting the pay deal

Could have been less, that's why Bombardier went to the employee's with the offer prior to this... I've still good contact with ex colleague's and my two neighbours have been filling me in with the current state.... But hey, you know best

[seafoid]

What are unemployment benefits like ? As they are bad as in England?

[Over the Bar]

Having worked in a unionised production environment the Union's main priority, apart from self promotion,  is ensuring every worker is viewed as an equal. The most useless, lazy, work-shy, always off sick, raising pathetic grievances rather than work,  trouble-makers got the full backing of the Union to prevent them being disciplined or getting a poor appraisal rating for being a useless layabout.  When the union ensures that type doesn't get the road it endangers everyones future.

[Tony Baloney]

Having worked in a unionised production environment the Union's main priority, apart from self promotion,  is ensuring every worker is viewed as an equal. The most useless, lazy, work-shy, always off sick, raising pathetic grievances rather than work,  trouble-makers got the full backing of the Union to prevent them being disciplined or getting a poor appraisal rating for being a useless layabout.  When the union ensures that type doesn't get the road it endangers everyones future.

Well put.

[ONeill]

Having worked in a unionised production environment the Union's main priority, apart from self promotion,  is ensuring every worker is viewed as an equal. The most useless, lazy, work-shy, always off sick, raising pathetic grievances rather than work,  trouble-makers got the full backing of the Union to prevent them being disciplined or getting a poor appraisal rating for being a useless layabout.  When the union ensures that type doesn't get the road it endangers everyones future.

Going off subject a bit, but how dangerous do you think it is to not be part of any union? Say, just have a good lawyer?

Does that leave you feeling a bit of a fraud if a union negotiates a better pay deal which you will benefit from?

[bennydorano]

Having worked in a unionised production environment the Union's main priority, apart from self promotion,  is ensuring every worker is viewed as an equal. The most useless, lazy, work-shy, always off sick, raising pathetic grievances rather than work,  trouble-makers got the full backing of the Union to prevent them being disciplined or getting a poor appraisal rating for being a useless layabout.  When the union ensures that type doesn't get the road it endangers everyones future.

Well put.

Possibly true, but if they pay their dues they're entitled to the best possible representation the Union can provide. The Union only exists in the first place because of their members.

[Saffrongael]

Well the union rejected cost cutting measures to help reduce the expected redundancies.....

I'm very much ambivalent about Unions these days, as a public sector worker you cant help but notice that the most useless workshy hoorbags gravitate towards the local posts. I wouldn't know much about In this particular situation but the above seems a regularly trotted out line. Sometimes they dont realise until it's too late that they are in a game of brinkmanship that they were never gonna win. The Union movement is going down the toilet imo, it rarely knows what battles to be fighting.

Unions are only looking after themselves.... Its big business with proceeds of wages going towards them...

Very simple, work harder and you'll keep your jobs.... Somebody is going it more efficiently somewhere else, why not here? Worked there fir 3 years, plenty areas that could be improved to help the place.... People are strange

What an idiotic thing to say.

From my time working there.... You work there??

No, but quite a few friends and old uni mates did/do.  However, it's utterly irrelevant.  You just said that the reason that 1000 people are looking at the dole queue this evening is because they are lazy.  No mention of the company bleeding cash due to cost over-runs on an ambitious project to try to compete with big boys, nothing about availability of cheaper labour in other economies, nothing about moronic union leaders advising workers to make wrong choices.  No, you see them 1000 over there, they didn't work hard enough.  Maybe you'd like to go and sit outside Bombardier's gate tomorrow morning and tell your ex-colleagues that in person.

Read my first post you clampit... I blame the unions on this, they advised the employees to not vote in favour of the cuts to help save jobs, they also did same thing in the shipyard and in most other union based sectors...

If they and that includes a lot of people that I seen from working there personally for 3 years worked mire efficiently then we wouldn't have what we have.... I had a sector of a fuselage to complete, certain man hours to get it done and wait on the next section before starting over again.... Two days you wait sometimes before getting your next kit to start working again... That's 16 hours per man with 8000 workers ?? Now that might not have been the norm all over, but I seen and did that a lot....

As for taking on projects like the carbon fibre wings its essential that they do that to improve the quality of the planes... Massive hit taken on that and a huge amount of money lost on developing that concept.... My next door neighbour is a designer in the place..lsd lives up the street is a fitter I know plenty of friends that work there, all disappointed with how things have been dealt with..... Countries will always have better working tax breaks than us....

I said to them at the time, take the hit now (it wasn't huge) and when the composites start to make money then bombardier will be at the forefront of that technology....

Haha, that's some bit of reversing!  You've went from stating explicitly that the people would still have their jobs if they worked harder, to blaming unions, poor management and the hit from the development of the C series.  Come to think of it, that's exactly what I said.  Much more reasoned stuff.  Your initial post was still idiotic though.

Nope, to certain extent we have a mentality in n.i when working for these companies and the likes of the civil service to expect more from the employers a do less.... Not accepting the cuts was both union and employees problems... Being asked to work to 2 O'clock instead of finishing at 11.45 on a Friday was just one of the things they didn't want to do.... Now you tell me that's not lazy??

So now it IS the employees fault.  Some flip-flopping going on here.

So you'd not accept a deal to save your job??

They were being made redundant regardless of accepting the pay deal

Could have been less, that's why Bombardier went to the employee's with the offer prior to this... I've still good contact with ex colleague's and my two neighbours have been filling me in with the current state.... But hey, you know best

No that's the thing, you think you know best on just about every thread you spout mindless shit on.

[Milltown Row2]

Well the union rejected cost cutting measures to help reduce the expected redundancies.....

I'm very much ambivalent about Unions these days, as a public sector worker you cant help but notice that the most useless workshy hoorbags gravitate towards the local posts. I wouldn't know much about In this particular situation but the above seems a regularly trotted out line. Sometimes they dont realise until it's too late that they are in a game of brinkmanship that they were never gonna win. The Union movement is going down the toilet imo, it rarely knows what battles to be fighting.

Unions are only looking after themselves.... Its big business with proceeds of wages going towards them...

Very simple, work harder and you'll keep your jobs.... Somebody is going it more efficiently somewhere else, why not here? Worked there fir 3 years, plenty areas that could be improved to help the place.... People are strange

What an idiotic thing to say.

From my time working there.... You work there??

No, but quite a few friends and old uni mates did/do.  However, it's utterly irrelevant.  You just said that the reason that 1000 people are looking at the dole queue this evening is because they are lazy.  No mention of the company bleeding cash due to cost over-runs on an ambitious project to try to compete with big boys, nothing about availability of cheaper labour in other economies, nothing about moronic union leaders advising workers to make wrong choices.  No, you see them 1000 over there, they didn't work hard enough.  Maybe you'd like to go and sit outside Bombardier's gate tomorrow morning and tell your ex-colleagues that in person.

Read my first post you clampit... I blame the unions on this, they advised the employees to not vote in favour of the cuts to help save jobs, they also did same thing in the shipyard and in most other union based sectors...

If they and that includes a lot of people that I seen from working there personally for 3 years worked mire efficiently then we wouldn't have what we have.... I had a sector of a fuselage to complete, certain man hours to get it done and wait on the next section before starting over again.... Two days you wait sometimes before getting your next kit to start working again... That's 16 hours per man with 8000 workers ?? Now that might not have been the norm all over, but I seen and did that a lot....

As for taking on projects like the carbon fibre wings its essential that they do that to improve the quality of the planes... Massive hit taken on that and a huge amount of money lost on developing that concept.... My next door neighbour is a designer in the place..lsd lives up the street is a fitter I know plenty of friends that work there, all disappointed with how things have been dealt with..... Countries will always have better working tax breaks than us....

I said to them at the time, take the hit now (it wasn't huge) and when the composites start to make money then bombardier will be at the forefront of that technology....

Haha, that's some bit of reversing!  You've went from stating explicitly that the people would still have their jobs if they worked harder, to blaming unions, poor management and the hit from the development of the C series.  Come to think of it, that's exactly what I said.  Much more reasoned stuff.  Your initial post was still idiotic though.

Nope, to certain extent we have a mentality in n.i when working for these companies and the likes of the civil service to expect more from the employers a do less.... Not accepting the cuts was both union and employees problems... Being asked to work to 2 O'clock instead of finishing at 11.45 on a Friday was just one of the things they didn't want to do.... Now you tell me that's not lazy??

So now it IS the employees fault.  Some flip-flopping going on here.

So you'd not accept a deal to save your job??

They were being made redundant regardless of accepting the pay deal

Could have been less, that's why Bombardier went to the employee's with the offer prior to this... I've still good contact with ex colleague's and my two neighbours have been filling me in with the current state.... But hey, you know best

No that's the thing, you think you know best on just about every thread you spout mindless shit on.

Thanks, that answers my question.... Now stop trolling me 

[Saffrongael]

Well the union rejected cost cutting measures to help reduce the expected redundancies.....

I'm very much ambivalent about Unions these days, as a public sector worker you cant help but notice that the most useless workshy hoorbags gravitate towards the local posts. I wouldn't know much about In this particular situation but the above seems a regularly trotted out line. Sometimes they dont realise until it's too late that they are in a game of brinkmanship that they were never gonna win. The Union movement is going down the toilet imo, it rarely knows what battles to be fighting.

Unions are only looking after themselves.... Its big business with proceeds of wages going towards them...

Very simple, work harder and you'll keep your jobs.... Somebody is going it more efficiently somewhere else, why not here? Worked there fir 3 years, plenty areas that could be improved to help the place.... People are strange

What an idiotic thing to say.

From my time working there.... You work there??

No, but quite a few friends and old uni mates did/do.  However, it's utterly irrelevant.  You just said that the reason that 1000 people are looking at the dole queue this evening is because they are lazy.  No mention of the company bleeding cash due to cost over-runs on an ambitious project to try to compete with big boys, nothing about availability of cheaper labour in other economies, nothing about moronic union leaders advising workers to make wrong choices.  No, you see them 1000 over there, they didn't work hard enough.  Maybe you'd like to go and sit outside Bombardier's gate tomorrow morning and tell your ex-colleagues that in person.

Read my first post you clampit... I blame the unions on this, they advised the employees to not vote in favour of the cuts to help save jobs, they also did same thing in the shipyard and in most other union based sectors...

If they and that includes a lot of people that I seen from working there personally for 3 years worked mire efficiently then we wouldn't have what we have.... I had a sector of a fuselage to complete, certain man hours to get it done and wait on the next section before starting over again.... Two days you wait sometimes before getting your next kit to start working again... That's 16 hours per man with 8000 workers ?? Now that might not have been the norm all over, but I seen and did that a lot....

As for taking on projects like the carbon fibre wings its essential that they do that to improve the quality of the planes... Massive hit taken on that and a huge amount of money lost on developing that concept.... My next door neighbour is a designer in the place..lsd lives up the street is a fitter I know plenty of friends that work there, all disappointed with how things have been dealt with..... Countries will always have better working tax breaks than us....

I said to them at the time, take the hit now (it wasn't huge) and when the composites start to make money then bombardier will be at the forefront of that technology....

Haha, that's some bit of reversing!  You've went from stating explicitly that the people would still have their jobs if they worked harder, to blaming unions, poor management and the hit from the development of the C series.  Come to think of it, that's exactly what I said.  Much more reasoned stuff.  Your initial post was still idiotic though.

Nope, to certain extent we have a mentality in n.i when working for these companies and the likes of the civil service to expect more from the employers a do less.... Not accepting the cuts was both union and employees problems... Being asked to work to 2 O'clock instead of finishing at 11.45 on a Friday was just one of the things they didn't want to do.... Now you tell me that's not lazy??

So now it IS the employees fault.  Some flip-flopping going on here.

So you'd not accept a deal to save your job??

They were being made redundant regardless of accepting the pay deal

Could have been less, that's why Bombardier went to the employee's with the offer prior to this... I've still good contact with ex colleague's and my two neighbours have been filling me in with the current state.... But hey, you know best

No that's the thing, you think you know best on just about every thread you spout mindless shit on.

Thanks, that answers my question.... Now stop trolling me 

It was the local bombardier boss that said the redundancies were being made regardless of accepting pay deal, maybe you know better than him, with everyone keeping you in the loop?

[Tony Baloney]

Can you hoors stop quoting the previous posts.