Meath vs Dublin - Leinster final - the day before the fair.

[thejuice]

Would any of the other teams object if we start taking anabolic steroids in order to close the gap. Just so we'll have a good game to watch. We can put an asterisks next to our name on the record books if we do win anything. We promise to stop using them once we've closed the gap by other means.

He's clearly taking the piss and taking too much of his Monday morning/afternoon on wikipedia when he probably should be working or doing something more useful with his time.

I'm not the person taking the piss, see above

People get very rattled by a few facts, don't they

There's a terrible tendency in society now which has been enabled by social media where people just whinge about things and blame others for their woes unthinkingly

The GAA is by far the worst example of it in Irish society

The GAA doesn't just administer Gaelic football and hurling, it also provides an outlet for society's biggest whingers who blame everybody else except themselves

There are certain Gaelic football counties which concentrate on making the most of themselves - Donegal, Mayo, Tyrone, Monaghan, Roscommon and of course Kerry

Most of the rest seem to be much more interested in looking everywhere else except at themselves for reasons as to why they are not competitive

A prominent Kildare sportswriter who drives much of this whinging online has now suggested that the other 10 counties boycott the Leinster championship - and he has a load idiots agreeing with him

He says that county football is irrelevant

Well, if it's irrelevant, why not not just fold up those county teams and be damned with it

That's not coming from me - it's coming from the whingers

They are in this position because that's where they're entirely happy and content to be

Nice of you to quote an obvious joke but I don't recall you responding to my serious questioning of your assertion that Meath had "given up the ghost" on being competitive. You can't tell me one thing we need to do over and above what Dublin are doing in any specifics other than we need to try harder or something vague like that.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Meath underage teams have been dogshit for decades.

Meath club teams are dogshit and are routinely brushed aside in Leinster.

Successive Meath management teams have not been up to the job.

The Meath players were NOT fit enough yesterday.

They don;t even have the excuse of spending money on a stadium, as nothing has been done with Pairc Tailteann for decades.

They have failed to move with the times and are still stuck in the 1990s.

If you want to keep sticking your fingers in your ears, whistling away to yourself and blaming everybody but yourselves, by all means do so.

Meath have nobody else to blame but themselves for the state of their county teams for the last 17 years.

Eh Sid, no one is denying that we'd fallen behind the times. I said as much and we've been desperately trying to claw back lost ground once we came to the realisation that what worked in the past wouldn't do. I didn't blame any other county for that either. But go on keep imagining that I said that.

My original point is that Meath have been taking great strides in recent years to improve things. Restructuring underage competition and development squads, building Dunganny centre of excellence, hiring the best coaches available, employing strength and conditioning coaches, etc etc. We haven't given up the ghost and we've made progress this year and caught up with a lot of other teams and the proof will be in the pudding of next years Division 1 campaign and possibly this years last 8.

However in spite of all that it doesn't seem realistic that we can close the gap with Dublin IF Dublin stay at their current level. But if you have any great insights as to how we close that gap I'm all ears.

[dublin7]

Its actually hilarious that the Dubs can't  see that the money makes no difference.

They actually fully believe it's the magical fairy volunteers. 

If you were to give €10m to Meath co board tomorrow there is no guarantee they would be successful. First thing a county should do if they are serious about football/hurling in the county is put together a long term plan for underage set up in the county and then look for funding. Offaly board had a plan for hurling in the county prepared for them, but they never actually bothered implementing it. Instead they sack the senior team manager in a desperate and ultimately failed short term/quick fix attempt to avoid relegation. Why should they for example receive funding. 

[seafoid]

No Ulster or Connacht team beat a Leinster or Munster team in the championship from 1973 to 1991.

Winning margins in championship matches between Leinster/Munster teams and Ulster/Connacht teams in that period were, 5, 17, 5, 16, 3, 12, 12, 11, 22, 1, 3, 16, 6, 10, 1, 2, 12, 9, 6 (replay), 8 (replay), 8, 7, 11 (replay), 11, 5, 3, 7, 8.

Out of 31 matches, about 7 or 8 were genuinely competitive.

But sure things were better in the old days, or something.

What on earth did people do without a tiered championship in those days?

Leinster used to be competitive even if Ulster and Connacht couldn't beat the winners
And there was no official funding in the mix

Competition in Leinster was always greatly overstated

Any more than two teams in the reckoning was rare and a historical aberration

Munster has never been competitive

From 1973 to 1991 the best teams in Ulster and Connacht were cannon fodder

Connacht were cannon fodder up to the mid 90s

Dublin are 3 or 4 standard deviations away from business as usual
14 Leinsters out of 15 is monopoly behaviour

Find any other period where they won 14 out of 15
They have 58 in total

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leinster_Senior_Football_Championship
1891, 1892, 1894, 1896, 1897, 1898, 1899, 1901, 1902, 1904, 1906, 1907, 1908, 1920, 1921, 1922, 1923, 1924, 1932, 1933, 1934, 1941, 1942, 1955, 1958, 1959, 1962, 1963, 1965, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1989, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 2002, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019

The argument has to be stats based at this stage rather than he said she said 

The Dubs have 58 and next 4 have 54 which implies mean is about 50% for the Dubs, not 98%

Kilkenny won 13 Leinster hurling titles in 14 years between 1998 and 2011

They won 11 All-Irelands in 16 seasons between 2000 and 2015

In fact only once in 19 seasons between 1998 and 2016 did Kilkenny either not win Leinster or at least reach the All-Ireland final, that one season was 2013

Wexford were cannon fodder for Kilkenny for years

They no longer are because they decided to decided to something about it, and because Kilkenny have levelled off after their golden years

Crossmaglen won 19 Armagh titles out of 20 between 1996 and 2015

Kerry have won 81 Munster football titles

Kilkenny have 71 Leinster hurling titles

So Dublin's dominance is far from unprecedented

The collapse of competition in the Leinster football championship is unprecedented
So are attendance levels and levels of public interest

What makes the Dubs case different is the funding

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0622/1056894-gaa-see-dublin-as-blueprint-for-future-not-the-problem/

"GAA executives admit Dublin's unprecedented dominance of Leinster could not have been predicted when they began to invest heavily in the capital, but there are no plans to split the county or pull the plug on their investment.
"We have huge challenges in Dublin. We have developing areas that we have no presence in: there are areas like Cherrywood, Hollystown and Adamstown..The Dublin county board CEO believes people need to stop judging the flow of money in terms of All-Irelands and think about participation rates."

[MayoBuck]

Well done Dublin, another historical milestone, a great performance in terrible conditions and did it with honour abnd pride in the competion. Meath good in parts except for their shooting and final third play. good tackling and hard hits was done well for the majority of the game. I never get tired of winning and beating our closest neighbour and rival. Hoping for 10 in a row next year.

Stephen Cluxton is third in the most Leinster wins with 15, just behind Meath.

Great attendance of just under 50K. Majority Dublin fans.  I would say 80/20. A shockingly bad day with heavey rain.

Biggest concern is the injury to James McCarthy, irreplaceable.

Meath were doing quite well before he went off, so not exactly irreplaceable.

[seafoid]

Its actually hilarious that the Dubs can't  see that the money makes no difference.

They actually fully believe it's the magical fairy volunteers. 

If you were to give €10m to Meath co board tomorrow there is no guarantee they would be successful. First thing a county should do if they are serious about football/hurling in the county is put together a long term plan for underage set up in the county and then look for funding. Offaly board had a plan for hurling in the county prepared for them, but they never actually bothered implementing it. Instead they sack the senior team manager in a desperate and ultimately failed short term/quick fix attempt to avoid relegation. Why should they for example receive funding.

If they put together a long term plan they would be successful. It's not rocket science

[MayoBuck]

Its actually hilarious that the Dubs can't  see that the money makes no difference.

They actually fully believe it's the magical fairy volunteers. 

If you were to give €10m to Meath co board tomorrow there is no guarantee they would be successful. First thing a county should do if they are serious about football/hurling in the county is put together a long term plan for underage set up in the county and then look for funding. Offaly board had a plan for hurling in the county prepared for them, but they never actually bothered implementing it. Instead they sack the senior team manager in a desperate and ultimately failed short term/quick fix attempt to avoid relegation. Why should they for example receive funding.

Mayo put together a new underage coaching plan a couple of years ago and have started implementing it. Strange how we haven't got a huge increase in funding for it though?

[sid waddell]

Dublin are below the level they were at for the last few years. They were well out of the picture in the league - and Jim Gavin didn't throw it at all - and the last two championship performances have been sloppy. There are a load of players getting on in years and not at the same level they were - Mick Fitzsimons, Philly McMahon and Cian O'Sullivan are all well past their best - the Brogans, Flynn and Connolly are gone and the players who have replaced them, good as they are, are not in the same all-time elite class.

When Dublin were in their absolute pomp with those players, between 2013 and 2017, Donegal beat them and Mayo and Kerry pushed them to the absolute limit in some of the greatest matches ever played.

Kerry, Mayo and Donegal are all westerly counties with populations between 130k and 160k with a high rate of emigration and poorly located economically.

Kildare and Meath have significant advantages that those counties do not have, and yet those other counties seriously challenged or beat the best Dublin team of all time.

How did they do that?

And if they did, how is it that people suddenly think this current Dublin team is unchallengable?

Kildare, Meath, Galway, Down, Tyrone, Armagh, Cork - all of those counties have the resources to do what Kerry, Donegal and Mayo have done over the last six or seven years.

[TheGreatest]

Well done Dublin, another historical milestone, a great performance in terrible conditions and did it with honour abnd pride in the competion. Meath good in parts except for their shooting and final third play. good tackling and hard hits was done well for the majority of the game. I never get tired of winning and beating our closest neighbour and rival. Hoping for 10 in a row next year.

Stephen Cluxton is third in the most Leinster wins with 15, just behind Meath.

Great attendance of just under 50K. Majority Dublin fans.  I would say 80/20. A shockingly bad day with heavey rain.

Biggest concern is the injury to James McCarthy, irreplaceable.

Meath were doing quite well before he went off, so not exactly irreplaceable.

Thtas true but what i meant was to the Dublin team and the rest of the championship, he is a driving force behind this team.

[mup]

Its actually hilarious that the Dubs can't  see that the money makes no difference.

They actually fully believe it's the magical fairy volunteers. 

If you were to give €10m to Meath co board tomorrow there is no guarantee they would be successful. First thing a county should do if they are serious about football/hurling in the county is put together a long term plan for underage set up in the county and then look for funding. Offaly board had a plan for hurling in the county prepared for them, but they never actually bothered implementing it. Instead they sack the senior team manager in a desperate and ultimately failed short term/quick fix attempt to avoid relegation. Why should they for example receive funding.

I don't think the GAA should be handing out grants to any county board unless they have plans in place. The game is dying a death and the GAA are fully culpable.

[HiMucker]

Dublin are below the level they were at for the last few years. They were well out of the picture in the league - and Jim Gavin didn't throw it at all - and the last two championship performances have been sloppy. There are a load of players getting on in years and not at the same level they were - Mick Fitzsimons, Philly McMahon and Cian O'Sullivan are all well past their best - the Brogans, Flynn and Connolly are gone and the players who have replaced them, good as they are, are not in the same all-time elite class.

When Dublin were in their absolute pomp with those players, between 2013 and 2017, Donegal beat them and Mayo and Kerry pushed them to the absolute limit in some of the greatest matches ever played.

Kerry, Mayo and Donegal are all westerly counties with populations between 130k and 160k with a high rate of emigration and poorly located economically.

Kildare and Meath have significant advantages that those counties do not have, and yet those other counties seriously challenged or beat the best Dublin team of all time.

How did they do that?

And if they did, how is it that people suddenly think this current Dublin team is unchallengable?

Kildare, Meath, Galway, Down, Tyrone, Armagh, Cork - all of those counties have the resources to do what Kerry, Donegal and Mayo have done over the last six or seven years.

But none of these counties have the resources to do what Dublin have done, do they?

[sid waddell]

Its actually hilarious that the Dubs can't  see that the money makes no difference.

They actually fully believe it's the magical fairy volunteers. 

If you were to give €10m to Meath co board tomorrow there is no guarantee they would be successful. First thing a county should do if they are serious about football/hurling in the county is put together a long term plan for underage set up in the county and then look for funding. Offaly board had a plan for hurling in the county prepared for them, but they never actually bothered implementing it. Instead they sack the senior team manager in a desperate and ultimately failed short term/quick fix attempt to avoid relegation. Why should they for example receive funding.

I don't think the GAA should be handing out grants to any county board unless they have plans in place. The game is dying a death and the GAA are fully culpable.

Always somebody else's fault, isn't it

It's the GAA's fault if they fund counties but county boards misuse the money

It's the GAA's fault if they don't fund incompetent county boards enough

If the GAA schedule fixtures for Croke Park, supporters whinge

It's the GAA "deny teams their day out in Croke Park" supporters whinge as well

It's Gemma O'Doherty-esque

[sid waddell]

Dublin are below the level they were at for the last few years. They were well out of the picture in the league - and Jim Gavin didn't throw it at all - and the last two championship performances have been sloppy. There are a load of players getting on in years and not at the same level they were - Mick Fitzsimons, Philly McMahon and Cian O'Sullivan are all well past their best - the Brogans, Flynn and Connolly are gone and the players who have replaced them, good as they are, are not in the same all-time elite class.

When Dublin were in their absolute pomp with those players, between 2013 and 2017, Donegal beat them and Mayo and Kerry pushed them to the absolute limit in some of the greatest matches ever played.

Kerry, Mayo and Donegal are all westerly counties with populations between 130k and 160k with a high rate of emigration and poorly located economically.

Kildare and Meath have significant advantages that those counties do not have, and yet those other counties seriously challenged or beat the best Dublin team of all time.

How did they do that?

And if they did, how is it that people suddenly think this current Dublin team is unchallengable?

Kildare, Meath, Galway, Down, Tyrone, Armagh, Cork - all of those counties have the resources to do what Kerry, Donegal and Mayo have done over the last six or seven years.

But none of these counties have the resources to do what Dublin have done, do they?

Dublin is a county of 1.4 million people

Obviously Dublin are going to be better resourced and attract greater sponsorship and funding because it's only major city on the island

That's the nature of representative sport

Inter county football has never been about equality, it's about county identity

Half the counties in Ireland have never won the All-Ireland football championship - in my lifetime only about 13 counties have ever had a realistic chance of winning it - and some of those have not done so

Inequality is also the nature of international football, international rugby and international cricket

Presumably everybody here believes Ireland should not compete against Germany, France and Spain as those countries have far bigger resources than Ireland, and that Ireland should instead stick to competing against Georgia and Lithuania etc.

If you want anything resembling a level playing field, amalgamate all the other counties into three or four provincial teams, because that's only way you can achieve any sort of equality

But that would mean 31 county teams ceasing to exist and a championship of five teams

[Hound]

Dublin are below the level they were at for the last few years. They were well out of the picture in the league - and Jim Gavin didn't throw it at all - and the last two championship performances have been sloppy. There are a load of players getting on in years and not at the same level they were - Mick Fitzsimons, Philly McMahon and Cian O'Sullivan are all well past their best - the Brogans, Flynn and Connolly are gone and the players who have replaced them, good as they are, are not in the same all-time elite class.

When Dublin were in their absolute pomp with those players, between 2013 and 2017, Donegal beat them and Mayo and Kerry pushed them to the absolute limit in some of the greatest matches ever played.

Kerry, Mayo and Donegal are all westerly counties with populations between 130k and 160k with a high rate of emigration and poorly located economically.

Kildare and Meath have significant advantages that those counties do not have, and yet those other counties seriously challenged or beat the best Dublin team of all time.

How did they do that?

And if they did, how is it that people suddenly think this current Dublin team is unchallengable?

Kildare, Meath, Galway, Down, Tyrone, Armagh, Cork - all of those counties have the resources to do what Kerry, Donegal and Mayo have done over the last six or seven years.

But none of these counties have the resources to do what Dublin have done, do they?

Indeed, but it's the red herring of the Games Development Funds that throws everyone off the scent. Those funds are about increasing participation, not a single player in the squads that have won all the All Irelands were impacted in the slightest way by those funds.

The "resources" that we do have, and that do benefit the team are playing population, volunteer coaching population and super organisation. Development squads implemented in the last 20 years or so have been super. All coaching done by Volunteers, not by paid GPOs. Whelan said this on RTE on Sunday, but like the 100 times I've said it, most seem to ignore it.

Of course, the lads on the development squads are looked after really well with gear, food, gyms etc, and those funds come from sponsorships. That's a genuine advantage Dublin has and uses to our advantage.

Now we've been remarkably unsuccessful at minor level for all that time, yet we've had a lot of players come through to the senior side regardless. Results almost always pick up at U21 level.

I'd put a big chunk of that down to the high level of club football that lads are dumped into after minor. There's also a school of thought that says that all the development squads at underage are picked based on skill, never based on size. Winning not the priority, developing skillful players is. I honestly don't know if that's true or just an excuse about lack of minor winning teams. But, with the benefit of hindsight, it's difficult to argue against.   

[seafoid]

Its actually hilarious that the Dubs can't  see that the money makes no difference.

They actually fully believe it's the magical fairy volunteers. 

If you were to give €10m to Meath co board tomorrow there is no guarantee they would be successful. First thing a county should do if they are serious about football/hurling in the county is put together a long term plan for underage set up in the county and then look for funding. Offaly board had a plan for hurling in the county prepared for them, but they never actually bothered implementing it. Instead they sack the senior team manager in a desperate and ultimately failed short term/quick fix attempt to avoid relegation. Why should they for example receive funding.

I don't think the GAA should be handing out grants to any county board unless they have plans in place. The game is dying a death and the GAA are fully culpable.

Maybe the GAA are no longer fit to run Gaelic Football

[seafoid]

Dublin are below the level they were at for the last few years. They were well out of the picture in the league - and Jim Gavin didn't throw it at all - and the last two championship performances have been sloppy. There are a load of players getting on in years and not at the same level they were - Mick Fitzsimons, Philly McMahon and Cian O'Sullivan are all well past their best - the Brogans, Flynn and Connolly are gone and the players who have replaced them, good as they are, are not in the same all-time elite class.

When Dublin were in their absolute pomp with those players, between 2013 and 2017, Donegal beat them and Mayo and Kerry pushed them to the absolute limit in some of the greatest matches ever played.

Kerry, Mayo and Donegal are all westerly counties with populations between 130k and 160k with a high rate of emigration and poorly located economically.

Kildare and Meath have significant advantages that those counties do not have, and yet those other counties seriously challenged or beat the best Dublin team of all time.

How did they do that?

And if they did, how is it that people suddenly think this current Dublin team is unchallengable?

Kildare, Meath, Galway, Down, Tyrone, Armagh, Cork - all of those counties have the resources to do what Kerry, Donegal and Mayo have done over the last six or seven years.

But none of these counties have the resources to do what Dublin have done, do they?

Dublin is a county of 1.4 million people

Obviously Dublin are going to be better resourced and attract greater sponsorship and funding because it's only major city on the island

That's the nature of representative sport

Inter county football has never been about equality, it's about county identity

Half the counties in Ireland have never won the All-Ireland football championship - in my lifetime only about 13 counties have ever had a realistic chance of winning it - and some of those have not done so

Inequality is also the nature of international football, international rugby and international cricket

Presumably everybody here believes Ireland should not compete against Germany, France and Spain as those countries have far bigger resources than Ireland, and that Ireland should instead stick to competing against Georgia and Lithuania etc.

If you want anything resembling a level playing field, amalgamate all the other counties into three or four provincial teams, because that's only way you can achieve any sort of equality

But that would mean 31 county teams ceasing to exist and a championship of five teams

Sport has to be competitive. It doesn't have to be equal.